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View Poll Results: Who will win the 2012 year-end H2H?

Djokovic will take the lead 31 50.82%
Federer will claim his trophy 25 40.98%
They will end in a draw, for the first time 1 1.64%
I don't know. But this should be an official ATP award, it's amazing. 4 6.56%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2012, 06:05 PM   #556
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Hewitt burned out early due to injury. His game required a lot of physical endurance. At his best, he deflected power like a mirror- the ultimate counter-striker.
His game was never likely to cause Prime Federer much trouble though.
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:14 PM   #557
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by EliSter View Post
WHen i said choke i ment in general. Tho you have the point, but dont u find it strange that Hewitt and Thugbandian suddenly who owned Fed untill 2003 from that moment on never beat Federer again on slam? Did Federer rised so much and changed this game from that 2004 and those 2 failed badly? Federer in 2003 was still young and his prime began at 2004, he started winning slams his confidence went sky high. But still u cant say those 2 after beating Federer so many times in past couldnt win a slam. They arent less talented they were just choke artist, who preformed well on all tournaments bar GS, and when it comes to big stage bye bye guts.
Hewitt game was a bad match-up for S&V . He had a good return of serve , great lob and was fast but he wasn't as successful against baseliners.
In 2004 fed played more to the baseline than previously. Hewitt wasn't a choke artist as he has 2 slams but he just doesn't have anything to hurt fed with at GS , similiar to Murray.
Nalbandian was a good player but a bh based player would choke more often than not in tight situation, against anyone not just federer. He doesn't have a great serve or fh. His game is based on timing and angles , as the tour slowed down he became irrelevant.
His best performances came indoors since then untill like 2007.
Every era is full of chokers and players that are good enough but since the beginning of time the dominating athletes have had 2 aspects in common great Serve n forehand or great forehand.
The bh based players were always seen as chokers or inconsistent.
Gonzalez-laver- Borg-Lendl-Sampras -fed- nadull all fh based players . Some have great serves. U have to take the initiative , your options under pressure is wider as well.
Second fiddle players of the era. Rosewall/Connors/wilander/Agassi/ Hewitt/ nalby/Murray etc. their bh more reliable than fh generally.
Conditions have a lot to do with it as well. Hewitt would get destroyed but del-po on HC but Hewitt was able to beat him at Wimby why did he suddenly get good no. The surface and speed of the court played an important role.
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FEDERER 10 VS TONI NADAL 20
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:16 PM   #558
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Nalbandian fits the mental midget label far more than Hewitt. He had a good record against Federer, including wins in big matches, because he is a mercurial talent, nothing to do with his mental toughness. If anything, he did well despite his tendency to choke; that TMC final in 2005 for instance, although a great match, was very, very close to becoming a choke for the ages from Nalby.

Hewitt was very tough mentally, his problem was that he lacked the game to trouble Federer, unlike Nalby. He had nothing to hurt Federer with.
Good post.
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FEDERER 10 VS TONI NADAL 20
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Fed 2 nadull 13 fed is nadull CLAY TURKEY. THE REAL ERA 2003-2010.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:11 PM   #559
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by EliSter View Post
WHen i said choke i ment in general. Tho you have the point, but dont u find it strange that Hewitt and Thugbandian suddenly who owned Fed untill 2003 from that moment on never beat Federer again on slam? Did Federer rised so much and changed this game from that 2004 and those 2 failed badly? Federer in 2003 was still young and his prime began at 2004, he started winning slams his confidence went sky high. But still u cant say those 2 after beating Federer so many times in past couldnt win a slam. They arent less talented they were just choke artist, who preformed well on all tournaments bar GS, and when it comes to big stage bye bye guts.
oh please, Federer choked 2 times on MP vs Nole, so please.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:09 PM   #560
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
His game was never likely to cause Prime Federer much trouble though.
One of the reasons he was 7-2 against him at one point was Fed used to serve and volley a lot pre-2003.

But yep, Fed's variety and peak ground game rendered Hewitt powerless unless he served amazingly well and Fed had an off day and those days from 04-05 were all too rare.
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:22 AM   #561
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
Whoever makes it further at USO between Djoker and Fed will be the player of the year





No, Murray is not the fave for USO; Fed and Djoker are. Murray still has a slight chance to become best player of the by winning USO and WTF but that's not going to happen.





It's one of the strongest.
Would be nice to have Söderling and Nadal back, though, then it would be even better.
Agreed. Unless Nadal comes back and wins everything post US Open. Unlikely, that.
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Old 08-21-2012, 02:26 AM   #562
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

At this point it really comes down to which of the two (assuming it's one of them) wins the USO.It's down to those two. Murray even if he wins the Open cant realistically close the point gap.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:49 PM   #563
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by EliSter View Post
We can go like this until tomorrow. Nole has beaten Federer before at slams and vice versa. With either one of them playing good or bad or some1 choking. But being enable 1 player in Fed era to rise and distrupt him is enigma for me. With exception of Nadal. Is that choke of players for many years? Is it case of them being subpar players compare to Federer?
Man really ... even a person like me understands this but everybody here (99%) are a tards and bias (like me ... you and so much others)
but Nalbandian and Hewitt early in their career caused BIG troubles to Fed he just became superior to them ... and i'll include my bias here (of course)
Davydenko although being 2-17 to Fed look at their matches ...
2002 Milan 6-3, 6-7(4), 7-5 for Fed ....
2004 Miami 6-2, 3-6, 7-5 for Fed ...
2004 Olympics 6-3, 5-7, 6-1 for Fed ...
2005 Rotterdam 7-5, 7-5 for Fed ...
2006 AO 6-4, 3-6, 7-6(7), 7-6(5) for Fed ... (third set Davy choked 6 SPs... and a lead 5-3 ... 4th set 1 SP more choked ...)
2007 FO 7-5, 7-6(5), 7-6(7) for Fed ... (Davy leading 5-3* *5-4 5-2* choking three SPs in the second )
2007 USO 7-5, 6-1, 7-5 for Fed ... (Davy choking *3-1 lead in the first ... and 5-2* lead in the third ...)
2008 Estoril 7-6(5), 1-2 RET for Fed
2010 AO 2-6, 6-3, 6-0, 7-5 for Fed ... (Davy leading 6-2 3-1* choking a BP for *4-1 ...)
2012 Rotterdam 4-6, 6-3, 6-4 for Fed ... (Davy choking 6-4 *3-1 and then in the third set choking 3 BPs at 4-3* 40-0*)
Thats 10 of 19 matches CLOSER than even the score suggested !
put 2 wins for Davy in some clutch matches that makes 12 matches and there are some mediocore but CLOSE wins for Fed 6 actually
Doha 2005 6-3, 6-4 for Fed
Hamburg 2005 6-3, 6-4 for Fed
USO 2006 6-1, 7-5, 6-4 for Fed
TMC 2007 6-4, 6-3 for Fed
Cinci 2010 6-4, 7-5 for Fed
Doha 2011 6-3, 6-4 for Fed
and THE ONLY Spanking was
2012 Doha 6-2 6-2 for Fed
and altough that pre 2005 Davy was TOP 50 player only he gave really tough matches to Fed
Really you can't say that he spanked easily Davy ... Just that A DOZEN of matches gone Feds way ... and tons of times Davy had Rog on the ropes (meaning Davy being the aggressive one) but you know his serve problems and low height being his kryptonite
I think you'll understand.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:26 AM   #564
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
Djokovic will also be a year older, and out of his official prime years of 22-25. .
When will Murray be in his prime?
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:21 AM   #565
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates

Due to a ban and the match thread being locked I wasn't able to comment on the Cincy final yet. But thanks to Snowwy that thread is redirected here anyway. As usual I got the prediction right that Roger would win Cincy, bageling the fake hard court king in the process Djokotards should have known better than to be cocky before the match and call Djoke the hard court king and real #1. Now they are in tatters because of it. Of course they are making all kinds of excuses now, saying Djoke didn't play well in order to try and save themselves from embarrassment, but the brutal truth is that Roger at age 31 is a better player than Djoke in his prime.

I now go on to predict that Roger will win the US Open as well and confirm himself as the undesputed king of tennis at age 31. And once I get that right my prediction abilities will never be questioned again.

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Old 08-23-2012, 05:42 AM   #566
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

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Originally Posted by xargon View Post
When will Murray be in his prime?
Good question. One normal confusion must be cleared up first. Prime years does not have to mean best career results. Murray could be out of his prime and still improve his results if the big three are even more out of their prime than they have been until now, and noone else reach such lofty levels. And prime is also a physical thing. He could get smarter and improve his results this way. Or more clutch, playing his best tennis in finals.

And of course, 21-25 is only a norm. There are deviations from the norm, even when there is no external reason. Big gaps in playing intensity kan delay a career without shortening it (not that this is relevant for Murray).

Still, going simply be statistics there is no empirical evidence to suggest that level of play drops more from 31 to 32 than it does from 25 to 26. So whether an additional year makes it easier for Djokovic/Murray to handle Federer remains to be seen.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:53 AM   #567
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Default Federer-Djokovic is the best rivalry of this generation/era

The Fedal rivalry is a joke. We all know who will win when they play on clay and slow hard courts The Nada-Joke rivalry was only okay last year when Djokovic was able to challenge Nadal consistently. Federer and Djokovic are evenly matched on hardcourts(although NOVICe's game is overrated) and have played many great matches.
Discuss.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:01 AM   #568
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Their rivalry)

Fedal is a joke, because we all know who's going to win? (who won their last slow hardcourt meeting?) YET, Nadal-Djokovic was ok, but only last year when Djokovic went 7-0, and not before?

Let Federer-Djokovic have some epic slam finals, then we can talk. Rafole have USO 10,11 and AO 12, which were all classics. Fedal have Wimbledon 07,08, AO 09 and even some RG were exciting.

You're just another Rafael Nadal hater.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:04 AM   #569
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Their rivalry)

USO10 a classic?
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:06 AM   #570
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Default Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Their rivalry)

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USO10 a classic?
It was an extremely high level match from both, the winners in there were just incredible. Why do I even bother, you just go watch the semi's from those years again. Sure you'll enjoy that.
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