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Old 07-25-2012, 08:54 AM   #61
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

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Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
Just to let you know this thread isn't being ignored - I have read all the contributions and they will be discussed with the other mods. One of us will come back to you in due course with an update.
Thanks scoobs We know you moderators have a big tough job! Posters somehow think you should always know everything that is going on in every thread in the Forum which is mission impossible! I keep saying that to make sure a post was seen by a moderator it has to be reported. That is what the report function is for and I think, if more posts were reported you would have a better idea of exactly what is going on in the Forum. Things aren't necessarily what one post seems to make a situation out to be!
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:56 AM   #62
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

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Originally Posted by Action Jackson View Post
Yes, he attacked other posters that didn't agree with his views, either on Nadal or Djokovic and thought GM was a personal fiefdom of his. No one is close to perfect, no he is not a martyr like it's being made out by some posters.

It's not the International Criminal Court, as goldenoldie said there is an email address where he can state his particular case about the banning, plus it's going to be reviewed as well.
Are we pretending it's that black and white? That he just attacked people who didn't agree with him? Aren't we going to bother to look at things in context?

Because I don't remember that being the case for Leng Jai's reduced ban for breaking a concrete rule. It was evaluated and looked at in context, rightfully and sensibly so.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:57 AM   #63
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

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Originally Posted by Nathaliia View Post
i can't speak for the others, but can for myself: i'm anything but a nadal fan, speak about it openly, and he's never insulted me, not even called silly for that

and i'm not even a castle member or something
Although I don't post that much these days. I would also agree with this. I never got the slightest hint of aggression from CD and I hardly see eye to eye with him on all things tennis. Clearly, he could mix it with the less constructive posters on this forum. From my experience though, he was genuinely concerned with discussing tennis with anyone who wished to do so. From the impression I got, he even tried to be fair and even handed (perhaps not successfully.

The blend between discussing the specificities of the case and the rules of these forums in general in this thread is quite a blurry one. I do tend to agree that having an 'x strikes and you're out' policy isn't great. When a poster who has made so many posts gets banned there is bound to be people feeling something about it, be it endorsement or negativity. I would have to say masterclass has done a pretty thorough and commendable job of highlighting specifically why this case is worth re-considering. Personally, having never been on the receiving end of insulting behaviour on these forums I guess I don't know both sides of the story. With that in mind, I would only emphasize that CD does have positive elements, he isn't just a troll (at least from my impression). Hopefully that has some relevance considering he's not my friend or anything like that.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:00 AM   #64
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

i think intelligence should be respected more around here. the guy in question has plenty of it, but sometimes he uses it badly...who doesn't? his contributions were quite huge, let's admit it...even ATP decided to keep agassi's case low profile...

i often don't like this guy's irony, but MTF is the place it is, the biggest tennis forum on the internet, due to guys like the banned one.

and mods should admit something about MTF which relates big time with human nature. MTF thrives on conflict, and people like CD cultivate this aspect of the true human nature big time. I cannot imagine MTF as a place of cold statisticians. this place needs conflict and tards, let's admit it now and forever!

and CD is a tard which tries big time to be objective. he fails at it, imho, but this place is different, less, without him.

i remember having a period here when I used to be continuously annoyed by a guy's named SdG posts. I replied, a little war started, but i never reported that fella for what he used to do. 2 big tards exchanging nice words this kind of debates more often than not keeps mtf alive. let's admit it!

we are beings which often thrive on conflict. and i mean ideas conflict, logical conflict, philosophical conflict, not physical one (at least on the web, i mean. i am a very peaceful guy in the real life, so to say, but i enjoy a nice heated debate on an internet forum, even if it implies some small language abuse). sometimes the language goes out of the rules books, it's who we are. admit that, mods, and let the guy post again!

P.S.
Of course i don't know what was the reason the mods eventually decided to apply the permaban (is it written somewhere for public view?), but the guy was behaving in a particular manner since i don't know when. Why now?

If it's to make a poll around here, how many of us here are tards? The number is quite big, I incline to think. Sports-fanboyism (and here is included its online manifestations) is a reality. Sport would not be the big social thing it is without this phenomenon. Let it flow, mods
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:05 AM   #65
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

If you bring Clay Death back, please reconsider bringing back MTF "icons" who "sometimes lost it" without "obvious maliciousness" but badly wanted to "discuss tennis" here and were "nice to other people in at least one of the chat threads". I can make a list if you want. Thanks!
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:08 AM   #66
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

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Originally Posted by gaitare View Post
If you bring Clay Death back, please reconsider bringing back MTF "icons" who "sometimes lost it" without "obvious maliciousness" but badly wanted to "discuss tennis" here and were "nice to other people in at least one of the chat threads". I can make a list if you want. Thanks!
You mean dylan, Jaap, joebuk, its.like that for starters?
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:10 AM   #67
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

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Originally Posted by masterclass View Post
I didn't really want to get involved in commenting among opinions here, but I'll make one exception in this case because it provides an example of one of my main policy complaints.

leng jai, your assertion by inference that someone should be permanently banned for x number of "minor" offenses is similar to saying that an individual comitting x number of misdemeanors offenses should result in life imprisonment, simply because enough is enough. No, "the punishment should fit the crime" logic should be held to here. If he violates a minor offense, give him the appropriate penalty for that. Repeated offenses for that minor offense should result in elevated penalties, but never to a level for a more serious offense. For example, violation escalation should be warning, infraction, 1 week ban, 2 weeks, etc. up to an appropriate maximum - say 1 month. Continued violations should then result in that maximum penalty repeatedly applied.

I realize this is not a court of law, and the owners and administrators have the right to run it in the way they please, but it seems to me that good judgement goes a long way in keeping a site like this open and commentary freely flowing while still providing a measure of control without censorship.

Another example of good judgement I know of, since it was well publicized, was when you got a reprieve for what is considered here to be a rather serious offense - Double account.

I think in your case, the sentence was eventually rightly judged to be overly harsh and reduced.

You should at least be sympathetic to judgements not being made purely by the numbers.

Respectfully,
masterclass
leng jai's case and CD's case are not comparable at all. leng jai's double account was stupid but inoffensive. Clay Death's behaviour on GM has been pretty offensive on a host of occasions. That was why he was banned. leng jai's ban arose from a strict application of a pretty administrative rule that didn't make any sense (not to mention the rule was unclear in the first place) and the 3-month ban was therefore unreasonable, not to mention it was his first offence. In sharp contrast, CD has been banned before; he had a stack of infractions; he knew very well that his behaviour in GM was in violation of the rules and he did it anyway. If leng jai were to create another DA, I'd say that he would deserve his original punishment (or whatever the punishment is for a second DA, even if it's a permanent ban).

In the same vein, CD had ample warning and was put on notice by the infractions that were presumably in his user CP, not to mention he's been here a while so surely he knew the rules. And yet he should be excused because he was allegedly baited?! Let's not make him out to be the victim here. Nobody forced him to react in a certain manner. This forum has an ignore function that he could have easily utilised, but he chose not to. His friends here told him to stop being a douche in GM, but he chose not to. leng jai's most likely right - he responded the way he did not because he's hot tempered or some crap (I am extremely hot tempered in real life and I don't behave like him in GM), but because he enjoys it. Sounds like another case of Start da Game to me.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:14 AM   #68
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Clay Death definitely improved recently as he was literally one of the worst posters ever when he first arrived on MTF. I put minor in inverted commas because obviously some of his past infringements were worse than that. The thing with CD is that he has been here for years and consistently broke the rules. There has to be an end point which results in a permanent ban. I'm pretty sure most forums on the internet have a X amount of strikes and you're out policy and MTF's one is particularly lax. As I said I'm not saying he should be banned - I'm just retorting the people here saying he shouldn't be banned just for a build up of infractions and the fact that he apparently never did anything except when provoked. Only the mods know how many infractions and temp bans he has had in the past so ultimately it's up to them. I'm not even going to bother discussing the comparison between this and in a court of law.

To clarify a few things - CD was never aggressive to me ( well he was when he first came on but who cares really). He knows I find his rhetoric tiresome and I don't think he particularly cares either. My observations are based on his interactions with other posters. Hkz and Big John are just as bad as him and it's not surprising BJ is banned as well.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:22 AM   #69
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Dunno, good point that there has be a limit to infractions sooner or later, but some far, far worse posters are not permabanned, and in some cases not even banned, so there's definitely enough reasons to review his case
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:23 AM   #70
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

So maybe those posters should be permabanned alongside CD instead.
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:24 AM   #71
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

I do think a perma-ban as a concept is a bad way of dealing with infractions, a maximum of 1 or two years should be the last, repeatable resort

with time people change, and everyone deserves a second chance, should they fail they will be given 1 or 2 more years to think over what they did wrong and what they need to avoid in order to continue participating in MTF

I'm not endorsing CD's case with the above, I think his case is comparable to SdG and there are many different permabanned posters whom are far more deserving of a review, but I think the concept of a perma-ban itself needs to be reviewed
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:36 AM   #72
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

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So maybe those posters should be permabanned alongside CD instead.
That's cool, but I don't think that's going to happen; e.g. Safin-rules is far more vile, yet he gets slap on the wrist at best, even brags about his connections with the admins.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:23 AM   #73
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

Permabanned users come back under another identity if they want to. It is known...

Clay Death is not one of those people. He's not gonna lay down low for a while and then come back with a different account to pollute the forum.

He's trying to clear his name here and be given a chance to adapt and co-exist on the forum. Because he knows he didn't deserve what he got.

But, really, the mods should bring some common sense into this and give him a hand. And when I say this, I don't mean just this case, but every other one as well, though this one is a very good example.

Are bans determined on which conflicted group has more clicks on the report button ? What is the purpose of mods then? Where is the human insight in all of it? What happened to hearing both sides' arguments?
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:24 AM   #74
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

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You mean dylan, Jaap, joebuk, its.like that for starters?
i don't think neither of them wanted to discuss tennis here - dylan and jaap were racist gamblers (though hilarious ones), joeb uk went out for stalking members and personal insults basing on people's real life (boarderlining scary... natas81 went out for the same thing), and jimbo, well, adorable and truly intelligent as he is, used this page only to stir shit for his own entertainment and for nothing more

i think racists and stalkers should be out of the question here

on the other hand, hilarious trolls like kapranos
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:27 AM   #75
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Default Re: Clay Death Permaban: Consider rescinding please.

i don't understand why some people love to see poster got permanently banned? Several days/weeks/months of "prison" is enough punishment for me. It is very obvious that I am no friends with Prima Donna/Glenn etc as they hated rafa to the utmost but even being so, I did post in those "begging threads" asking for the mods to un-permanent ban them (I remember Prima donna got banned while he was having a new baby so I asked the mods to show some mercy so as not to ruin his happy moments by permanently banning him)
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