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Old 07-21-2012, 06:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

So basically your argument is that there is no such thing as terrorists and they should all simply be called criminals?

Meaning you don't see the difference between a deranged serial killer and a man who murders because of his religious beliefs or for a political cause?

Gun control people essentially believe that if you live in a community of 30,000+ people, that you should be ruled by the behavior of the 1 person who acts violently. One person abuses the law, so the other 30,000+ should give up their guns. That's the mentality.
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:52 PM   #17
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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Originally Posted by abollo View Post
If he was Muslim he would be called a terrorist. Same like that Norwegian guy.
I would be happy to know how do you define terrorist or terrorism at all?
i use the same definition of the USA government, which is to define terrorism as brown people killing others, especially if they're white people.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:29 AM   #18
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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i use the same definition of the USA government, which is to define terrorism as brown people killing others, especially if they're white people.
Great that the USA and yourself are finally on the same page. Can I have a link to the USA definition? Is it a State Department publication?

Although crazy people certainly cause terror, theirs is a single act of barbarism. "Terrorist'' has come to be defined as an organized group dedicated to furthering their religious or political views by REPEATED cowardly acts of random violence committed in public against random, civilian targets.

Such as the bus bomb in Bulgaria, which I think was planted by a white guy. So maybe he is an exception to your and the US's definition.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:36 AM   #19
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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i'd love to see you as interested in knowing the background and causes of the ones who blow themselves up in the middle east. but oh wait, they're just arabs riddled with hatred, right? no need to check their motives, then.
Not exactly ''just arabs'', but just Muslim fundamentalist simpletons (the underwear bomber from the wealthy family for example) who have been promised lots of sex in heaven if they just go out and kill Jews to please their god. Not much different from the Mayan priests who sacrificed thousands of captured innocents in order to gain the blessing of their perceived gods. The difference being that sacrifice is not generally condoned these days, so the evil priests have to stay in the background and find useful idiots to do the sacrificing. Isn't ''Allah is Great'' what they usually shout while committing their atrocities, so that the world will know their cause?
Why should I listen to your perception of their background and causes, when I can learn their cause straight from their own mouths?
Do you mean to tell me I should learn more about the background and cause of the underwear bomber before I call him a useful idiot? I don't think so. But maybe you can save me time. You must have checked the motives of the underwear bomber? What were they?

I could probably study the background and causes of the ones that blow themselves up for one thousand years, without finding it acceptable to blow women and children to pieces while on vacation. Oh wait, they're just Jews riddled with hatred. That might work.

You still can't get away from deluding yourself that all anyone has to do is to read what you read and they will understand the world and all its problems, can you?
I remember one poster recently telling you something along the lines that having read a few leftist pamphlets you now think you are the most informed person on the planet. Never mind that you haven't been within a thousand miles of the countries you claim to know inside out.

We have a new controversy in Canada, where the Iranian embassy is monitoring Iranian immigrants and urging them to resist assimilation into Canadian society and instead dedicate their lives to spreading the Iranian governments conception of Islamic culture throughout the country. Is that the kind of cause you sympathize with? Or should the Iranian embassy in Ottawa be closed?
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:34 AM   #20
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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Originally Posted by Tommy_Vercetti View Post
So basically your argument is that there is no such thing as terrorists and they should all simply be called criminals?

Meaning you don't see the difference between a deranged serial killer and a man who murders because of his religious beliefs or for a political cause?

Gun control people essentially believe that if you live in a community of 30,000+ people, that you should be ruled by the behavior of the 1 person who acts violently. One person abuses the law, so the other 30,000+ should give up their guns. That's the mentality.
I'm sorry, but why should you even have the right to own a gun in the first place? For self-defence? Because it's in the Constitution? I live in a country where the punishment for the illegal possession of firearms is death and I've never found myself in a situation where I needed a gun to defend myself. While I realise how sacrosanct the American Constitution is (believe me, it's one of the things that I admire about the US), sometimes you just have to admit that the times, they are a-changing; sometimes, they have already changed.

I would really like to know why some Americans - the Republicans in particular - are so obsessed with their right to own a gun. It is absolutely inexplicable to me. It gives crazy people easy access to a highly dangerous weapon that has resulted in many senseless shooting sprees where people for nothing. At some point, surely you have to wonder whether America would be safer if there were stricter gun control laws in place...or if, gasp, Americans were stripped of their right to bear arms.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:49 AM   #21
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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Originally Posted by Tommy_Vercetti View Post
Like Alaska, Arizona, Vermont, Utah or Wyoming? Absolutely nothing in comparison to the states and cities with the most oppressive gun laws.
Alaska, Vermont and Wyoming are all among 5 least populated states, and Utah is not far from them either. Of course it's going to be "absolutely nothing".
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

You miss the whole point. If guns are the problem, then why do states where virtually everyone owns them have very little violent crime as opposed to the cities where buying one is a huge ordeal and if you do get one, you can never carry it. Do you understand that?

Do you understand that the biggest increases in gun violence have happened after the Brady Bill and the most strict gun laws? The facts completely refute the idea of the lack of gun control being the cause of the violence. In fact, history has shown us that gun laws only increase gun violence. It's the culture and society of the politically correct era.

Like I said, it was not so long ago that a 12-year old could order a Thompson machine gun. Yet there was no school shootings or mass shootings like this? Blaming firearms is ridiculous. And saying that the public should disarm and allow the government to be the only people with the weapons is never going to be acceptable to most of America.
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:15 PM   #23
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

does it? looking at the data it seems that the american states with the most lax gun laws have a higher rate of gun related deaths.

Gun violence in the United States by state:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vio...tates_by_state

Gun laws in the United States (by state):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...ates_(by_state)
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:17 PM   #24
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

just read this story in a music forum i sometimes frequent.

Quote:
What a tragedy.

Some of you probably know that when I was young I had a severe psychotic episode. I actually was convinced of some absolutely absurd things (namely that I was god, that I was Santa Claus... seriously the list goes on) and heard voices in my head. Before that I was getting good grades, having a good time, everybody liked me etc.

It all reached a head when I attacked my next door neighbour in his own lounge room and tried to kill him with a blunt piece of timber. I went to hospital, took medication and right now am a perfectly fine 25 year old, with a partner and a child and nobody could ever imagine what I was like then.

If I was in America I may not have used a blunt piece of timber. I may have used an assault rifle. Here in Australia we don't have access to these types of things at Wal-Mart. He is no more and no less sane than I was, I can guarantee you of this. It was what he was taking in while he was breaking down, most likely due to drugs, that influenced what he became. I was reading books on paganism, witchcraft, biblical texts, he was reading Batman comics, watching war films, probably playing games like Call of Duty.

It is a tragedy, and I guess I am the only one on here who feels even an ounce of sympathy for James. I can understand why those who don't don't. The boy who he was 18 months ago would be as heartbroken to know what he has just done, if he's anything like me he may actually even return and have to live with it. He will end up in an asylum for life, even if he does recover from the psychosis because if that happens, he will have PTSD and more guilt and pain than most can even imagine and his face will never be allowed to be seen by anybody in society ever again.

When you see that his mother knew it was him immediately it brings to mind the memories of my mother during my psychosis. She was one of the only people who was genuinely unnerved by me the entire time. Even though mostly I was able to exist in society undetected despite the insanity inside me, she could see straight through and feared for me.

James might as well be dead now because his live will never be worth living again. I could have just as easily been that guy. Drugs, highly impactful media dressing up violence, insanity and revenge in a beautiful costume and access to devices of extreme violence made our outcomes different.

None of this will ever bring comfort to the loved ones of these victims. All a person like me can hope for from this is that it will finally see a serious stand taken in the US about gun control. That and for early warning signs of psychosis and mental illness to be taken very seriously. Educate yourselves.
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:32 PM   #25
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

^^That's nothing but logical.

I ask the American defending his guns in this thread: what is so terrible about the government being the only ones that have access to guns? I simply don't understand. It sounds like it's not merely a case of Constitution-thumping - in which case, please explain. Thank you.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:40 PM   #26
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

If you can't understand why it's a bad thing for the government to be the only people who have weapons, then there's absolutely no point in having a discussion about gun laws.

The US has always been a country where the citizens were well-armed. As opposed to the rest of the world, where not only is tyranny still the dominant form of government, but the free societies of all the modern states came after ours and in most cases, as a direct or indirect result over time.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

I agree with Trip here, she brings up a solid point and something that I've said all along. Ever since the Columbine shootings I think.

A few terrifying statistics:


35 People Australia ; population 20 millions ish
= 1.75 people killed per million citizens


39 People England and Wales: population 55 million
=0.71 people killed per million citizens


194 People Germany: population 85 million
=2.42 people killed per million citizens

200 People Canada : population 35 million
=5.71 people killed per million citizens

9.484 People USA: population 350 million,
= 27.1 people killed per million citizens

All in the same year.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

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Originally Posted by Tommy_Vercetti View Post
The US always been a country where the citizens were armed. As opposed to the rest of the world, where not only is tyranny still the dominant form of government, but the free societies of all the modern states came after ours and in many cases, as a direct or indirect result over time.
Wow. Just wow.

I really can't believe I've just read this. If there was any way I could report this to authorities and get you mentally examined I would.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:48 PM   #29
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Li Ching Yuen View Post
I agree with Trip here, she brings up a solid point and something that I've said all along. Ever since the Columbine shootings I think.

A few terrifying statistics:


35 People Australia ; population 20 millions ish
= 1.75 people killed per million citizens


39 People England and Wales: population 55 million
=0.71 people killed per million citizens


194 People Germany: population 85 million
=2.42 people killed per million citizens

200 People Canada : population 35 million
=5.71 people killed per million citizens

9.484 People USA: population 350 million,
= 27.1 people killed per million citizens

All in the same year.
that incluses gun caused deaths (including accidents using guns) or simply homicides/murders in general?
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:49 PM   #30
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Default Re: 12 killed and 59 wounded in Denver shooting at a Batman showing

But you do understand that illegally obtained guns make up a huge percentage of that? And also I don't think you can just brush aside the racial component to much of that violence. Saying that rural Americans should not be allowed to own firearms because of inner-city gang violence and violent criminals who use illegal weapons is just utter nonsense.

Like I said, 9,484 people is nothing compared to 313+ million. And the large percentage of that 313+ million that legally own weapons.
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