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Old 05-03-2012, 08:16 PM   #46
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Capitalism rocks.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:17 PM   #47
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Capitalism rocks.
for the rich
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:21 PM   #48
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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for the rich
Untill it crashes out.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:36 PM   #49
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
soviet russia certainly wasn't rich by any modern (and western?) world stretch and it was far from being a paradise either (for one thing the limited freedom its citizens had left a lot to wish for) but... it was economically safe for the average joe. people had their jobs and had the basic means to sustain themselves. that's something that changed drammatically when boris yeltsin and his western-backed capitalist style came to power in the nineties. millions of russians fell into poverty and the GDP plumetted while some filthy gangsters, local and outsiders, managed to become billionaires at the expense of the poverty of a whole nation. for years -even to this day- thousands of russian women went to the west to work as prostitutes just because they didn't have any type of labour opportunities back home.

i'm sure russians at the time would have preferred to keep their "socialist paradise" alive instead of having no food on their plates in yeltsin's capitalist-oriented russia.

things have been getting better for the russians lately, though. as corrupt and shady as putin might be, he's still miles better than boris -and most russians know that.
Yes there were two famines in the mid-90s but North Korea also experienced them despite sticking to communism. This was a transition period in which many very serious mistakes were made. As you said, a few oligarchs became billionaires while much of the country starved. Unlike East Germany, the Russian transition from communism to capitalism was handled extremely poorly. Companies were privatized just for the sake of privatization. Thousands of farmers and their suppliers suddenly had the freedom to move where they wanted. So many abandoned their posts and headed west towards Moscow, St Petersburg or even western Europe.

I've always said, even though I'm a libertarian, I do NOT always condone the act of privatization, especially for organizations which have been in government control for many decades. Even in developed countries like the UK (where investors have more experience) the company is basically handed over from one clueless entity (government) to another clueless entity (hedge funds with no experience in the company's industry). Sometimes it works, but there have been several examples of both success and failure in this regard.

As for comparing Yeltsin to Putin, neither are particularly distinguishable. Both are probably socialists deep down in their hearts. I don't know the details of their differences in policy but I'm sure Yeltsin would have been equally opinionated on America's involvement in middle-eastern affairs. But in any case, Putin should be focusing more on Russia's internal problems before worrying about America.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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for the rich
Everyone can be rich.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:44 PM   #51
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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In regards to Putin, he is a better president simply because of his harsh and unforgiving international policies, unlike that fat sloth Yeltsin. Yanks and their Euro ass kissers surely hate him because despite some public discontent, he actually has guts to persue policies that are beneficial to his country alone and to stymie yank instigated conflicts in 3rd world countries like Syria in an effort to expand their influence.
It's not "guts" to talk big to the "Yanks and their Euro ass kissers". It's pure populism. Like every politician, he has nothing to lose by criticizing foreigners.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:46 PM   #52
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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as for libertarians (or semi-pure capitalists, whichever term you like best), i mostly see them as clueless. i don't think they fully grasp the complexities of the world's markets and how badly things would be if some of their ideas were implemented. i wouldn't tag them as right wingers, though.
So clueless that nobody can prove us wrong.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:54 PM   #53
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Everyone can be rich.

No capitalism is mostly a reproduction system. Read Bourdieu for more information.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:55 PM   #54
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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Everyone can be rich.
Tell that to Greeks
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:57 PM   #55
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Bless you froggies. Good to see you in the political mood this summer.


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Tell that to Greeks
Are you calling Greeks retards?
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:13 PM   #56
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Tell us when you won't be in trolling mood anymore.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:15 PM   #57
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

No, they are doomed right at the beginning, how can they became rich?
Only thing they can do is survive.

You said everyone can be rich, this is just untrue as it highly depends on when and where you were born.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:48 PM   #58
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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No, they are doomed right at the beginning, how can they became rich?
Only thing they can do is survive.

You said everyone can be rich, this is just untrue as it highly depends on when and where you were born.
This is exactly when and where you are wrong.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:18 AM   #59
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

in democratic systems the natural ebb and flow between left and right should be felt, and argument inside this paradigm is extremely healthy... there can not be one way traffic - and we know what that is called... some of us are probably even living it right now, yet don't know it...

funnily enough, those deriding the libertarian viewpoint in favour of a more leftist approach are not just of the mark, they are not even in the same postcode... this coming from an old staunch lefty...

should the western world swing any further left than it is today, then you are creating the perfect climate for a nasty little fella called totalitarianism... while, too much swing too soon towards the libertarian ideal and you get anarchy...

what you need is ebb and flow, and right now when you have the two 2012 US Presidential candidates romney and obama running campaigns backed by the same entity... well... it wouldn't hurt to give a little bit of the power back to the common man to get rid of the Cleptocracy that has one and all in debt would it...?

though first he has to stand up and take that power and leave nothing for doubt...

don't be fooled... what has stolen your family's wallet is not called capitalism - it is actually the worst form of socialism ever known - EVER - and that is, free trade in the real economy with the proceeds from their efforts socialising the rich... a two tiered system...

UNESCO never had to sign off on this new endangered species... that's how good they are..
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:55 AM   #60
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Default Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

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So clueless that nobody can prove us wrong.
it depends on what you mean by 'wrong' or 'right...

i know you've described yourself as a libertarian but i've never been sure to what degree... let's start with something basic: do you approve the existence of a minimum wage?
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