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View Poll Results: What do you think of Filo V's avatar?

I think it is in good taste 7 33.33%
I think it is in bad taste 14 66.67%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-22-2012, 04:06 PM   #46
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Roger the Dodger View Post

But to most people, Jesus is a revered saint and to publicly humiliate him is to humiliate those who believe in him.
To Christians, Jesus is not a revered saint. He is God, no?
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:09 PM   #47
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Roger the Dodger View Post
You say you are not anti-Jesus but are doing things which are anti-Jesus.
Let us not forget that Jesus is a disputed character, not a living person. To an atheist, saying you're anti-Jesus is like saying you're anti-Gnomes (at least in terms of the supernatural attributes).

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Don't self-contradict yourself.
I chuckled.

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The pleas are valid. This is liberal public forum open to all people from the world. And as with every community, you need to be careful about what can be brought openly in public. Don't misuse its liberal ideology to suit your theories. You want to walk naked in the boulevard. Well, you might want to, but if the laws restrict you; you will be led away. You can't say 'this is how I am and all of you have to accept me as I am.' Its about communal harmony. Everything is not accepted everywhere. If you wanna go nude, go to a nudist beach. There it wouldn't be a crime.

Similarly, this is not some underground anti-Christ forum. There your avatar might have been valid because you would be among your lot. But to most people, Jesus is a revered saint and to publicly humiliate him is to humiliate those who believe in him.
To most people where? In the world? Wrong. This is an international forum. Not that it would matter much in any case.

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Tell me, would you have the audacity to do what you did, to Mohammed? You wouldn't. It would make headline news. They'd track down your IP, send a man of your own religion to your doorstep, and chop those pretty fingers running mayhem on a keypad and there'd be no middle finger to show anyone. Jesus is a soft target, and Christians are more liberal, and hence your show of false courage, chat-room hero.
And who would be to blame for Filo V's loss of their digital appendixes if he were to sport a Muhammed avatar? Filo V? Or the insanely oversensitive Muslims?

It takes two people for an offence to take place: the offender and the offended person. Why, I ask, should the blame always fall on the offender? Why is the offendee somehow never held responsible?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:28 PM   #48
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Default What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Bullshit.

Enough with this outrageous veil of immunity religion is supposed to have.
I would say, get done with Religion but don't disgrace a noble soul. Respect every individual as an individual and for what they are - therefore respect Jesus too, because he was one in a billion. Perhaps the only good thing that comes from the decadence of religion is that people will be free of dogmas and morals, but they will still need examples, still need inspiration, and to strip away the dignity of the visionaries and leaders tantamounts to stripping your own.

The destiny of a human being is to be stuck between Doghood and Godhood. We all feel it, don't we? Yet, no matter how much we are rooted to our base instincts, we also habitually gaze upwards, towards higher qualities like Love, Hope, Delight, Wonder, Knowledge, Innovation, Imagination, Intuition, Charisma etc. The last thing one should do is defame those who show us the brighter side of life and bring them to our low-level. This was the original criteria for religion: To not mix up the two because the chances of falling are always higher than the chances of rising. Hence, creating separate places of worship, etc.

But everything is mixed up now, with ritualistic followers and trigger-happy fundamentalists, which is why religion is a done-and-dusted institution.

My verdict - respect Jesus the Individual; down with Religion. Jesus was a great, great and rare noble birth, and our chat-room hero needs to grow up and not hurt the sentiments of his more liberal followers.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:37 PM   #49
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger the Dodger View Post
I would say, get done with Religion but don't disgrace a noble soul. Respect every individual as an individual and for what they are - therefore respect Jesus too, because he was one in a billion. Perhaps the only good thing that comes from the decadence of religion is that people will be free of dogmas and morals, but they will still need examples, still need inspiration, and to strip away the dignity of the visionaries and leaders tantamounts to stripping your own.

The destiny of a human being is to be stuck between Doghood and Godhood. We all feel it, don't we? Yet, no matter how much we are rooted to our base instincts, we also habitually gaze upwards, towards higher qualities like Love, Hope, Delight, Wonder, Knowledge, Innovation, Imagination, Intuition, Charisma etc. The last thing one should do is defame those who show us the brighter side of life and bring them to our low-level. This was the original criteria for religion: To not mix up the two because the chances of falling are always higher than the chances of rising. Hence, creating separate places of worship, etc.

But everything is mixed up now, with ritualistic followers and trigger-happy fundamentalists, which is why religion is a done-and-dusted institution.

My verdict - respect Jesus the Individual; down with Religion. Jesus was a great, great and rare noble birth, and our chat-room hero needs to grow up and not hurt the sentiments of his more liberal followers.
Why didn't you write "his more liberal followers need to grow up and not have their sentiments hurt by our chat-room hero"?

Everyone's entitled to feel any way they want. I am not religious, but I recognise the power and virtue of the message attributed to Jesus. If he existed, he must have been a very wise and enlightened man. Yet I could not bring myself to be offended by a caricature of him showing the middle finger. For one, because depictions of people on the internet are close to the bottom of my list of important stuff. And secondly because I fail to see how that belittles Jesus.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:18 PM   #50
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Bullshit.

Enough with this outrageous veil of immunity religion is supposed to have.
It's not about religion having immunity itself bug rather about respecting people who see (in this case) Jesus someone who should.be respected.

For me it's about respecting the people who believe in him, not about respecting Jesus or giving religion some sort of immunity. For instance I would be mad if someone did a similar thing to a photo of my sister, but it wouldn't bother either you or anyone else at all. I couldn't care less about the avatar, but some people do, and I think they should be respected.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:16 PM   #51
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Falsely provocative. Filo V is the personification of bad taste.
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Old 03-22-2012, 07:22 PM   #52
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by arm View Post
For me it's about respecting the people who believe in him, not about respecting Jesus or giving religion some sort of immunity.
this argument is not valid. why: (always take the extreme example) so you wouldn't disrespect Hitler because there are some people that worship him?

u see, if it's someone's opinion that religion is a big bullshit (very reasonable btw), then this person has every right to point this out.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:01 PM   #53
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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this argument is not valid. why: (always take the extreme example) so you wouldn't disrespect Hitler because there are some people that worship him?

u see, if it's someone's opinion that religion is a big bullshit (very reasonable btw), then this person has every right to point this out.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think disrespecting Hitler is the way to get anywhere let along express an opinion against his actions.

But hey, I must agree that you make a good point.

And tbh, I also think religion or at least its big entities are a big BS, and I believe everyone has the right to point this out! Please that's a basic right. But that image simply is not the way.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:12 PM   #54
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

It's not good or bad taste. It's just not taste at all. Now please close this thread and don't waste time in needless stuff...
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:21 PM   #55
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arm View Post
It's not about religion having immunity itself bug rather about respecting people who see (in this case) Jesus someone who should.be respected.

For me it's about respecting the people who believe in him, not about respecting Jesus or giving religion some sort of immunity. For instance I would be mad if someone did a similar thing to a photo of my sister, but it wouldn't bother either you or anyone else at all. I couldn't care less about the avatar, but some people do, and I think they should be respected.
I'm not sure I understand your point fully. Are you saying Filo V shouldn't have used that avatar out of respect for the people who believe in Jesus?

I don't think the comparison with your sister is appropriate. That would be a personal attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sicko View Post
this argument is not valid. why: (always take the extreme example) so you wouldn't disrespect Hitler because there are some people that worship him?

u see, if it's someone's opinion that religion is a big bullshit (very reasonable btw), then this person has every right to point this out.
You lose the argument by Godwin's Law.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:29 PM   #56
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
I'm not sure I understand your point fully. Are you saying Filo V shouldn't have used that avatar out of respect for the people who believe in Jesus?

I don't think the comparison with your sister is appropriate. That would be a personal attack.



You lose the argument by Godwin's Law.
But attacking Jesus pretty much feels like a personal attack to A LOT of people... don't you realize that?

Jeez, I am making myself seem like a religious individual with strong beliefs, and I really am not. I just like respecting people whatever their beliefs are, and I expect people to respect me back just the same way. The image is offensive for a lot of people, hence he shouldn't use it.

I also agree with you that religion and its entities shouldn't get half the immunity they get most of the time, but that is a whole other story..
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:32 PM   #57
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Everyone's entitled to feel any way they want.
Everyone is entitled to feel any way they want (as long as they only feel it or think it or the stuff hovers in their subconscious. When you express your feeling in words or actions, you must refine them in a way that everybody understands. Whatever be Filo's case against Jesus or God, not everybody thinks of Jesus as someone who'd turn against those who have faith in him, and show his finger to them.

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I am not religious, but I recognise the power and virtue of the message attributed to Jesus. If he existed, he must have been a very wise and enlightened man. Yet I could not bring myself to be offended by a caricature of him showing the middle finger. For one, because depictions of people on the internet are close to the bottom of my list of important stuff. And secondly because I fail to see how that belittles Jesus.
Needless to say, it wouldn't make a difference to Jesus, given the forgiving personality he had, but ask someone who loves Jesus and genuinely feels his protection, power and blessings, how he feels if someone ridicules his image.

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Originally Posted by arm View Post
For me it's about respecting the people who believe in him, not about respecting Jesus or giving religion some sort of immunity. For instance I would be mad if someone did a similar thing to a photo of my sister, but it wouldn't bother either you or anyone else at all. I couldn't care less about the avatar, but some people do, and I think they should be respected.
Spot on. I couldn't have expressed it better. To tarnish the image of Jesus in the eyes of those who believe in him is what is wrong. And no matter your personal feelings about him or his religion be, you certainly don't express it in that arrogant infantile manner and justify your behaviour with false reasoning.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:35 PM   #58
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

in bad taste, definitely, and I guess I could see how it would be offensive to some.

I'm not the biggest fan of being politically correct but in this case I would rather it be taken down.
My argument isn't so much as to that it would offend others, but more of "What is it aimed at accomplishing?"

If it really is just a "I don't care about whatever you say" sign Filo could just have used anyone, not this symbol of representation as Jesus.
Hence I conclude that the main point of that as his avatar is just to shock, polarize and insult.
Which frankly has no place on this discussion board.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:41 PM   #59
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
I don't think the comparison with your sister is appropriate. That would be a personal attack.
But it is the most appropriate comparison, Har-Tru. A truly religious feeling (again, in its origin and not in its perversion as we see today) is an intimate, deeply personal communion with God or the saint or guru who brought you in contact with Truth/Consciousness/Divine. It is very personal and when someone hurts the one you love and revere deeply, in such an ignorant manner, you take it extremely personally.

Forget Jesus. Think about someone hurting someone you really love, truly, madly, deeply - your child, wife, friend, mother, father. It doesn't matter who. The hurt is exactly the same intensity.
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:45 PM   #60
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Default Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

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Originally Posted by arm View Post
But attacking Jesus pretty much feels like a personal attack to A LOT of people... don't you realize that?

Jeez, I am making myself seem like a religious individual with strong beliefs, and I really am not. I just like respecting people whatever their beliefs are, and I expect people to respect me back just the same way. The image is offensive for a lot of people, hence he shouldn't use it.

I also agree with you that religion and its entities shouldn't get half the immunity they get most of the time, but that is a whole other story..
Of course I realise that. I am well aware of the fact that many people will get instantaneously offended by stuff like this. My point is... let me put it this way:

We have here a case of an "offence". We have an offender, Filo V, and a hypothetical offendee, let's call him Mr. X.

Filo decides to express his opinion about Christianity by using this avatar in an internet forum. Mr. X sees it and is outraged and offended. Why do we, in face of the situation, automatically turn our heads to Filo, hold him responsible and urge him to delete his avatar? Why is the offender at fault by default? Does Filo V, and every user here, have to cater to the personal feelings and beliefs of every single other user? Why must that always be more important than the right to free speech and to the free exercise of opinion?

The man in my avatar is my favourite living philosopher. If another user considered him to be a terrible thinker and a man not worthy of praise, but rather of criticism, and decided to sport an avatar ridiculing him, and if that hurt my feelings and offended me, would you say it would be reasonable for me to demand he got rid of that avatar? Of course not. Why is this any different? Why is this a whole other story?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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