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Old 03-18-2012, 05:02 PM   #46
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
He doesn't move as well, he doesn't time his forehand as well as he once did (albeit it's still a great shot from time to time) and his backhand's regressed a hell of a lot.
This is all subjective (as is my view). I see no evidence of any of the above and, many will agree, his backhand is possibly a better shot now.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:09 PM   #47
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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This is all subjective (as is my view). I see no evidence of any of the above and, many will agree, his backhand is possibly a better shot now.
Once in a blue moon it has a great day, like Murray at the AO final 2010, but nowadays it's not even the best single hander in Switzerland.

His serve has remained intact though and that's a key reason why he remains at the top echelons. Without it, an attacking player like him would drop down the rankings on today's conditions/surfaces.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:15 PM   #48
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Once in a blue moon it has a great day, like Murray at the AO final 2010, but nowadays it's not even the best single hander in Switzerland.

His serve has remained intact though and that's a key reason why he remains at the top echelons. Without it, an attacking player like him would drop down the rankings on today's conditions/surfaces.
It never was the best single-hander in Switzerland. Wawa's has always been better. I'm not sure where this idea came from, that Federer's backhand was a weapon or even particularly reliable from 2004-2007. It wasn't. His struggles with a young Nadal indicate that it has always been a fairly significant weakness.

Anyway, neither of us will convince the other, so we might as well agree to disagree. My days of debating on MTF all day are behind me.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:20 PM   #49
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Federer - peaked in 2007, yet to decline.....
I think Federer peaked in the end of 2003 (TMC) and stayed at the peak form until, let's say 2007 Dubai. From then on there were signs of decline, but the best way to describe it would be to say he continuously adapted his game to his age. Fed was a late bloomer.

Nadal is yet inside his peak period, which started in 2008 when he was able to start adapting his game to all surfaces (and the surfaces were changing in a way that suited his playing style). His clay peak started in 2005, basically one and a half year later after turning pro. He was a prodigy. From 2008 on, he continuously and successfully adapted his game in order to alleviate the mileage problem that was becoming an issue too soon in his career.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:32 PM   #50
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

lets face it chaps

federer is a one off- we all knew it when he beat sampras

federer (like laver, borg) can hit the special level where he is unplayable

it doesn't matter where and when- when fed gets hot he cant be touched

even though nadal is the worst matchup possible- he still beats him at 75% of the surfaces- that stat alone tells how mentally strong roger his- how amazing his game is

federer stands alone- and although he isnt the same man he once was- he is still good
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:11 PM   #51
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
It never was the best single-hander in Switzerland. Wawa's has always been better. I'm not sure where this idea came from, that Federer's backhand was a weapon or even particularly reliable from 2004-2007. It wasn't. His struggles with a young Nadal indicate that it has always been a fairly significant weakness.

Anyway, neither of us will convince the other, so we might as well agree to disagree. My days of debating on MTF all day are behind me.
You really think Federer defends as well as he did when he was 24? You think his on the run game is just as potent as 6 years ago? Really?

Federer is far from being in a wheelchair but it seems quite clear to me the consistent explosiveness that he was able to unleash at his best is a thing of the past. What was an immaculate forehand every third rally is now just once in a while. This is just the eye test, of course, forget results because they can always be misleading; although I agree he's certainly playing better right now than at any time in the past few years, his 2 majors in '09 included.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:01 AM   #52
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

I wonder if Federer somewhere in the future finds Nadal's curve decling ahead of his own?

I must say Nadal is just fighting ahead better than I thought he would for his age, he still has incredible legs and incredible spirit to improve his game, anyway this is the curves up to end of 2012 according to rankings:



Federer should have gone up a little at the same level he has been since end of 2008 and might now be climbing his top since 2008 the coming month or so, Nadal on the other hand might decline alot the coming months, it will be a very interesting season to follow.
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:24 AM   #53
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
This is all subjective (as is my view). I see no evidence of any of the above and, many will agree, his backhand is possibly a better shot now.
many will disagree
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:32 AM   #54
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

ok guys you know me i don't like Nadal at all but i think he isn't declining right now ..... even if he is the decline is slower than Federers .....
and i wonder why you began to describe only Nadal and Federers decline ?
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:50 AM   #55
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Originally Posted by Clydey View Post
It never was the best single-hander in Switzerland. Wawa's has always been better. I'm not sure where this idea came from, that Federer's backhand was a weapon or even particularly reliable from 2004-2007. It wasn't. His struggles with a young Nadal indicate that it has always been a fairly significant weakness.

Anyway, neither of us will convince the other, so we might as well agree to disagree. My days of debating on MTF all day are behind me.
That backhand flick pre-2006 was absolutely amazing though. He showed some of it during 2007, but I mean he used to pass anyone with his backhand.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:34 PM   #56
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

Roger's BH was more of a weapon against players outside of Nadal in his heyday. It was more crisp and less vulnerable to attack. He hit the DTL BH more consistently and effectively. His BH is more of a set-up shot now, but that's beginning to change of late as Roger's gaining confidence in his game. He's using the BH as a weapon more often, which has greatly helped his overall game.
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:31 PM   #57
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Default Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

Great graph
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