Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand? - Page 6 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 03-15-2012, 04:52 PM   #76
country flag Clay Death
Banned!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Thermopylae Pass
Posts: 65,983
Clay Death has a reputation beyond reputeClay Death has a reputation beyond reputeClay Death has a reputation beyond reputeClay Death has a reputation beyond reputeClay Death has a reputation beyond reputeClay Death has a reputation beyond reputeClay Death has a reputation beyond reputeClay Death has a reputation beyond reputeClay Death has a reputation beyond reputeClay Death has a reputation beyond reputeClay Death has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
i don't believe in categorizing certain players' strengths as bad match ups to other players......i would rather accuse the player who's suffering for not making the right adjustments......djokovic made the necessary adjustments and dominated nadal in 2011.....

as a matter of fact djokovic was dominated by nadal before 2011 to an extent where nadal at one point lead 14-4.....if bad match up concept was really true, that should never have happened because by default nadal should have lost almost every match since the beginning of the rivalry or at least since 2007 ending......

del potro, soderling and berdych were tipped to be rafa's bad match ups.....rafa reduced them all to jokes......djokovic will get his beatings very soon.....in my view tennis is all about adaptability.....
that "bad matchup" shit is only a chicken shit excuse. nobody intelligent really buys that crap.

how does one explain that he has a winning record against all the top players? i dont think that is a "bad matchup" nonsense.

it has everything to do with what he brings to the battlefield.

granted that he lost some of that after 2010 but that is a story for another day.

and finally he has almost always struggled on hard courts so we already know that. lot of player have got the best of him on hard courts. nole and fed just happen to be the best hard court players around. their record says so.
Clay Death is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 03-15-2012, 05:11 PM   #77
country flag Start da Game
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,179
Start da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond reputeStart da Game has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay Death View Post
that "bad matchup" shit is only a chicken shit excuse. nobody intelligent really buys that crap.

how does one explain that he has a winning record against all the top players? i dont think that is a "bad matchup" nonsense.

it has everything to do with what he brings to the battlefield.

granted that he lost some of that after 2010 but that is a story for another day.

and finally he has almost always struggled on hard courts so we already know that. lot of player have got the best of him on hard courts. nole and fed just happen to be the best hard court players around. their record says so.
concurred like never before, hercules.....he brings a thinking game to the battlefield and that's the reason why he has a winning record over everyone.....the ultimate chess master in the field of physical chess.....
Start da Game is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 07:25 PM   #78
country flag masterclass
Registered User
 
masterclass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,461
masterclass has a reputation beyond reputemasterclass has a reputation beyond reputemasterclass has a reputation beyond reputemasterclass has a reputation beyond reputemasterclass has a reputation beyond reputemasterclass has a reputation beyond reputemasterclass has a reputation beyond reputemasterclass has a reputation beyond reputemasterclass has a reputation beyond reputemasterclass has a reputation beyond reputemasterclass has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eduggs View Post
Nadal would have more trouble against himself than most players with one-handed backhands. It's not a 1 vs 2-handed thing. Extreme topspin gives most backhands trouble. Nadal gives Murray, Tsonga, Roddick, Monfils, and many other players huge problems on their backhand wings. On the flip size, Gasquet, Almagro, Wawrinka, Kohly, Youzhny, and even Federer, handle it fairly well. Nadal's backhand is a weakness. A vast majority of players have much better forehands than backhands. A backhand weakness does not appear just because Nadal breaks it down.

I've said it a 1000 times, Federer's trouble with Nadal isn't so much his backhand. He handles that wing just fine. His problem is Nadal's quickness and court coverage. Federer is forced to play very aggressively with his groundstrokes (low percentage) and becomes tentative with his approaches because of Nadal's ability to pass on the run. Nadal on the other hand doesn't have to come far out of his comfort zone. If Nadal wasn't so effective with his backhand pass, Federer would dominate this matchup in my opinion. In most of Federer's losses you can pinpoint a game or a point where Nadal took control with one or more spectacular backhand passing shots. It happens almost every match.
As I've pointed out in other threads, Nadal's quickness and court coverage and passing ability are relative to many of today's slower and high bouncing courts that favor his defensive style of tennis, giving him time to reach balls that could be winners on higher speed courts, which then allows him to produce capable shots of his own. This forces the attacking player to hit either riskier lower percentage flatter shots in an attempt to go for winners, or, to change the nature of their game to rally with Nadal, and that becomes a losing proposition for almost any player other than Mr. Djokovic of 2011 and later.

Put Mr. Nadal on the faster lower bouncing surfaces like those you find indoors, or some of the faster hard courts on the US Open summer tour, and he can look almost helpless against attacking players and not only Federer.

Can there be exceptions? Sure, the margins between the top players are not huge. If one of them is having an off day or tournament, they can be beaten in conditions that would generally favor them, just as they can play exceptionally in conditions that don't favor them particularly, or combinations of those two. But these are clearly exceptions.

Nadal on clay is 12-2 vs. Federer - Federer's only 2 wins coming at Madrid and Hamburg.
Nadal on indoor hard is 0-4 vs Federer.
Nadal on grass is 1-2 vs. Federer.
Nadal on hard courts is 5-1 in favor of Nadal, but 4 of those wins were on the slower conditions of Rod Laver Arena (AO) and Miami, the exceptions being a win for Nadal in Dubai 2006 and a win for Federer in Miami 2005.

Their slam and YEC record generally reflect similarly. Mr. Nadal's most singular win in the faster US Open conditions was in 2010, where he served unusually well, and had a good draw. Prior to that, he hadn't gone beyond the semis (2) and had lost to lower ranked players. In 2011, the conditions were slower than usual. Mr. Federer won his lone Roland Garros major when Mr. Nadal lost his only match there to Robin Soderling, but Federer still has made 4 finals there, only to lose to Mr. Nadal.

They have met much more on clay, including the clay slam, because Mr. Federer is still an excellent clay court player and can go deep enough in a tournament to meet Mr. Nadal; he's just not as good there as the Clay Court King, Nadal.

They have almost no meetings in faster non-high bounce conditions other than the Indoor YEC, because Nadal has generally not been able to go deep enough in those tournaments to meet Federer, who clearly does perform well in those conditions (5 straight US Open wins and a final).

They have 4 meetings indoors, because they are forced to meet in the Year End Championships due to the round robin and top 8 players in the world format.

There is no mystery here. These conclusions are all based on the record.

Respectfully,
masterclass
masterclass is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 07:29 PM   #79
country flag zerocool_
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 949
zerocool_ has a reputation beyond reputezerocool_ has a reputation beyond reputezerocool_ has a reputation beyond reputezerocool_ has a reputation beyond reputezerocool_ has a reputation beyond reputezerocool_ has a reputation beyond reputezerocool_ has a reputation beyond reputezerocool_ has a reputation beyond reputezerocool_ has a reputation beyond reputezerocool_ has a reputation beyond reputezerocool_ has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macbrother View Post
Kuerten's, arguably one of the greatest single-handers ever; tall and with variety, he could do absolutely anything he wanted with the shot. Would've loved to see BH/FH rallies between them, unfortunately wasn't meant to be.
This.
zerocool_ is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 07:43 PM   #80
country flag TheTennisFanatic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Age: 27
Posts: 46
TheTennisFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeTheTennisFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeTheTennisFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeTheTennisFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeTheTennisFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeTheTennisFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeTheTennisFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeTheTennisFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeTheTennisFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeTheTennisFanatic has a reputation beyond reputeTheTennisFanatic has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
concurred like never before, hercules.....he brings a thinking game to the battlefield and that's the reason why he has a winning record over everyone.....the ultimate chess master in the field of physical chess.....
mind giving an example of when rafa actually changed tactics against someone? I don't see nadal's matches unless he plays my favorite players or finals but I just see him playing the same way against everyone. Federer on the other hand plays much differently against different players like slicing a lot against tall players, changing up his serves etc.
TheTennisFanatic is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 08:30 PM   #81
country flag sexybeast
Registered User
 
sexybeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,258
sexybeast has a reputation beyond reputesexybeast has a reputation beyond reputesexybeast has a reputation beyond reputesexybeast has a reputation beyond reputesexybeast has a reputation beyond reputesexybeast has a reputation beyond reputesexybeast has a reputation beyond reputesexybeast has a reputation beyond reputesexybeast has a reputation beyond reputesexybeast has a reputation beyond reputesexybeast has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTennisFanatic View Post
mind giving an example of when rafa actually changed tactics against someone? I don't see nadal's matches unless he plays my favorite players or finals but I just see him playing the same way against everyone. Federer on the other hand plays much differently against different players like slicing a lot against tall players, changing up his serves etc.
I dont agree, Nadal has changed his approach against power players. Before he had great difficulty with players like Berdych but now he has learned to take control of the point earlier and also to dominate the point early after serve with inside out forehands.
__________________
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
sexybeast is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 09:47 PM   #82
martinatreue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,263
martinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by out_grinder View Post
Topspin, not slice.

Obviously the answer is none of them, but if forced to be a rightie with a one handed-backhand, whose would you pick to play against the Nadal forehand?

Bonus points for backing up your answer with analysis as to why the biomechanics/grip/technique of your chosen player's backhand make him more favourable against Nadz.
Why leave out the flat drive? There is more than just topspin or slice!
martinatreue is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 09:57 PM   #83
country flag out_grinder
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 703
out_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond reputeout_grinder has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

There is no such thing as a 'flat drive' - either a shot topspin shot that has little topspin on it, or a slice that has little slice on it.

I doubt anyone hits their backhand like that and I doubt either type of shot would be much use against Nadal.
out_grinder is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2012, 10:12 PM   #84
martinatreue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,263
martinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond reputemartinatreue has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by out_grinder View Post
There is no such thing as a 'flat drive' - either a shot topspin shot that has little topspin on it, or a slice that has little slice on it.

I doubt anyone hits their backhand like that and I doubt either type of shot would be much use against Nadal.

Yeah I see what you mean but some people hit a very heavy topspin shot and others put very little and then it's referred to as flat. Nobody hit with zero spin but that doesn't mean people don't hit the ball pretty flat. Anyays... back to the orignial question... I think nobody's one hander and really pretty much nobody's two hander stands up too well against Rafa's forehand on slow courts. on faster courts, Roger Federer very often pulls Nadal WAY OFF THE COURT with the short backhand crosscourt angle and then takes his backhand or forehand down the line. That pattern is very troublesome for Rafa but the key is mixing it up. Any player (one or two hander) cannot just stand there and repeatedly hit to his forehand and think they won't get pushed back by that spin and angle.
martinatreue is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 12:21 AM   #85
country flag RagingLamb
Motherhater
 
RagingLamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Age: 33
Posts: 5,572
RagingLamb has a reputation beyond reputeRagingLamb has a reputation beyond reputeRagingLamb has a reputation beyond reputeRagingLamb has a reputation beyond reputeRagingLamb has a reputation beyond reputeRagingLamb has a reputation beyond reputeRagingLamb has a reputation beyond reputeRagingLamb has a reputation beyond reputeRagingLamb has a reputation beyond reputeRagingLamb has a reputation beyond reputeRagingLamb has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

one word: Boris Becker
__________________
Lest we forget.
RagingLamb is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 12:41 AM   #86
country flag fast_clay
Registered User
 
fast_clay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ₫ṿﻁᶫỉᾔﺍᶏ
Posts: 15,730
fast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond reputefast_clay has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingLamb View Post
one word: Boris Becker
yes, you are correct... boris would have said 'f*** off mate' with a few choice forearmed crosscourt, on-the-rise bhs and then maybe a big 102mph in-to-outer very early in a match which would have rendered nadal's undergarments properly soiled...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelvenluvJo View Post
why are you so seriously
fast_clay is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 12:48 AM   #87
country flag leng jai
Registered User
 
leng jai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Oxford (at heart)
Age: 27
Posts: 20,402
leng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond reputeleng jai has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Whose one-hander would you pick against Nadal's forehand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fast_clay View Post
yes, you are correct... boris would have said 'f*** off mate' with a few choice forearmed crosscourt, on-the-rise bhs and then maybe a big 102mph in-to-outer very early in a match which would have rendered nadal's undergarments properly soiled...
Boris Becker = one word mate? I don't even think Bogans think thats right

Ajde.
__________________
WARNING: This signature may contain extreme traces of bullying and glory hunting

TOMMY HASS
0 slams () and 0 finals
0 consecutive weeks at world no. 1
0 consecutive Laureus World Sports Awards
0 times qualified for YEC
3-13 H2H against Rogi Featherer
0-5 H2H against Rafito Nadal
Career low ranking: 1,241 (26.06.1995)
0 fake mullets flaunted in Roland Garros finals.
1 first name in common with Tommy Robredo

Last edited by leng jai : 03-16-2012 at 01:04 AM.
leng jai is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios