Originally Posted by abraxas21
it's more about ethnicity than religion, tbh
Originally Posted by Har-Tru
How can you, how can anyone, say this with a straight face?
Because it happens to be absolutely true?
The conflict between Israel and the Arab world did not start in 2001, nor during the rise to the forefront of extreme forms of Islam during the late 80s and 90s.
In fact, both Israel and Zionism are the children of socialdemocrat Jews who were as unreligious as they come. The Rabbis only signed up later. And Israel was created against the fierce opposition of the most irreligious generation of Arab leaders we have ever seen or are likely to see. Yasir Arafat, Nasser, Hafiz el-Assad, Ghaddafi, Saddam (and his predecessors since the 1950s)... none of them were particularly pious. While the PLO was headed for several decades by a group that included several prominent Christians, amog them the chairman of the Palestinian Parliament. Not to speak of Iran, of course, that Mossadegh's fall in 1954 (sponsored by UK & US) opened the way for the Ayatollahs is something too plain obvious for anybody to deny.
The religious aspect of the conflict only really flared much, much later, out of frustration at the failure of lay politicians to either solve the problem nor produce a working model for Arab modernity.
The role that the conflict with Israel -and by extension, the West- played in the later failure, has always played a huge part in explaining Arab hatred towards Israel; these were countries awakening from centuries of foreign domination -Otoman, Western-, who from the very start saw all their hopes for reform bogged down by the huge military and political costs of a conflict they had had no role in creating. The West chose to clean its dirty conscience for centuries of dismal treatment of the Jews on the backs of people who had treated them comparatively far better, and who were struggling themselves to find a place in the sun after colonialism.
It's particularly odious to see how a consequence of the conflict (the return to religious fundamentalism since the late 70s, out of frustration), can be spinned into a cause of the conflict. This reminds one of South Africa, where vicious abuse of blacks led some of them to violence... only for their violence to be used to justify even more vicious abuse.
Sad world. Is it really that radical to hope for justice for all?