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View Poll Results: Vote for speeding up the courts or against it!

Speed up the courts 295 80.60%
Leave them as they are 71 19.40%
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:35 AM   #406
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
Yeah great, he lost to Rafito who doesn't play tennis any differently on grass either. Irrefutable proof he would be a grass master.

In 2008 he was spanked by Safin. In 2009 he lost twice to a 30 year old Haas who was playing old school grass tennis on slow consistently bouncing "modern" grass. 2010 he played Hewitt and Lu before being comprehensively beaten by Berdych.

What part of Nole's game would be improved on old school grass? He doesn't have a great slice, his volleys are mediocre and his serve is not big enough. Does he prefer playing his groundies off low bouncing shots? No.

Federer clearly prefers the old grass because the low bounce is far better for his topspin backhand and the slice becomes a much more effective shot. Thats not even taking into account how much better the volleys would be. These days its a joke to try volleying unless its a put away shot. Volleys sit up after they bounce now rather than skid which is what they used to do. How do you think its possible for Nadal to hit those ridiculous passing shots? The bounce of the volley gives him the extra time to reach the ball and get under it to make the shots possible. Do you really think he could chase down a low skidding volley breaking away from him and produce those forehands on the run? No.
nadal did not peak on clay, grass and hardcourts at the same time.....same with djokovic.....both unlike fed.....

do you think nadal and djokovic would play on slick grass the same way they do on today's grass? i have heard all the slowing down of courts arguments enough already.....the first one who benefited from slow grass is fed.....it's ridiculous how philippoussis's serves kept coming back that day in 2003 when the ball should have been barely visible on his first serve.....reason? they changed it to 100% in 2002 and henman went mad straightaway at the organizers.....

they all benefited from slowness.....
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:36 AM   #407
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

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Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
What the fuck are you talking about? Which part of what he said was hypocritical? He didn't say anything that he hasn't already said previously. You should have been permabanned.



What's with the emoticon in relation to Lu? More importantly, why do you even bother trying to engage this clown in any sort of meaningful discussion?
what do you think you are?
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:47 AM   #408
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
nadal did not peak on clay, grass and hardcourts at the same time.....same with djokovic.....both unlike fed.....

do you think nadal and djokovic would play on slick grass the same way they do on today's grass? i have heard all the slowing down of courts arguments enough already.....the first one who benefited from slow grass is fed.....it's ridiculous how philippoussis's serves kept coming back that day in 2003 when the ball should have been barely visible on his first serve.....reason? they changed it to 100% in 2002 and henman went mad straightaway at the organizers.....

they all benefited from slowness.....
Are you really trying to say Federer has benefited from grass slowing down? How does a fast court player benefit from a court slowing down? How does a does a player who prefers low balls on the backhand benefit from higher bounces?

Every Nole and Rafito tard claims they would play differently if the courts were different. You make it sound like they are tennis magicians who click their fingers and tailor games to perfectly complement any conditions. Its especially laughable when you take into account how limited their games are. They have one type of game that they excel at and not much else. What would they do differently on old grass? Would Nadal suddenly turn into Wayne Arthurs on serve? Would Nole be a serve and volley master? I don't think so. Why do you think Agassi's career grand slam is so revered - because it was a fucken hard thing to achieve in the era he did it in. How many players were good at every slam pre 2003? Barely anyone. Why? Almost everyone played a similar game on each surface and did the best on the one which suited their game the most.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:01 PM   #409
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

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Originally Posted by leng jai
You make it sound like they are tennis magicians who click their fingers and tailor games to perfectly complement any conditions
Instead of portraying those two as one-trick ponies and Roger as the one, the only real magician, you mean?

The clay courts of Roland Garros have been made faster. You could also wonder if Roger, with his preference of faster surfaces with a low bounce, would have been as succesful in the 80s compared with his actual achievements in RG.
This is a line of thinking that can go both ways.

By focusing your argument on "Nole and Rafito", I feel that you're dragging the debate from one tardish extreme to the other.

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Old 02-29-2012, 12:07 PM   #410
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

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Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
Are you really trying to say Federer has benefited from grass slowing down? How does a fast court player benefit from a court slowing down? How does a does a player who prefers low balls on the backhand benefit from higher bounces?

Every Nole and Rafito tard claims they would play differently if the courts were different. You make it sound like they are tennis magicians who click their fingers and tailor games to perfectly complement any conditions. Its especially laughable when you take into account how limited their games are. They have one type of game that they excel at and not much else. What would they do differently on old grass? Would Nadal suddenly turn into Wayne Arthurs on serve? Would Nole be a serve and volley master? I don't think so. Why do you think Agassi's career grand slam is so revered - because it was a fucken hard thing to achieve in the era he did it in. How many players were good at every slam pre 2003? Barely anyone. Why? Almost everyone played a similar game on each surface and did the best on the one which suited their game the most.
who said that federer is a fast court player when 11 of his 16 slams are on slow surfaces according to MTF's definition of what a slow surface is?

well nadal proved that he can adapt to different surfaces.....at 20 years old he demolished us open 2005 finalist agassi, AO 2006 finalist baghdatis both at wimbledon 2006 and lost in a close four setter in the final to fed who was a three time defending champion.....that's the earliest indication of what he is capable of on a tennis court even if it's not his beloved clay.....
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:11 PM   #411
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

Grass and hard courts have definitely slowed down a lot. Watching clay court-like rallies in this year's AO final, and even last year's USO final was a little disconcerting. Faster courts here would make for better variety IMO.

OTOH, clay courts look fine and shouldn't be messed with.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:12 PM   #412
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
By focusing your argument on "Nole and Rafito", I feel that you're dragging the debate from one tardish extreme to the other.
Of course he is, though he's too pompous to admit it

Ajde, etc.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:23 PM   #413
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
who said that federer is a fast court player when 11 of his 16 slams are on slow surfaces according to MTF's definition of what a slow surface is?

well nadal proved that he can adapt to different surfaces.....at 20 years old he demolished us open 2005 finalist agassi, AO 2006 finalist baghdatis both at wimbledon 2006 and lost in a close four setter in the final to fed who was a three time defending champion.....that's the earliest indication of what he is capable of on a tennis court even if it's not his beloved clay.....
If most of the slams he played in were considered as slow courts of course thats where most of his wins are going to be. He only has 1 out of 16 wins on the slowest slam so I really fail to see your point.

Beating Agassi 2006 and Bagdhatis are great arguments for a player "adapting".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
Instead of portraying those two as one-trick ponies and Roger as the one, the only real magician, you mean?

The clay courts of Roland Garros have been made faster. You could also wonder if Roger, with his preference of faster surfaces with a low bounce, would have been as succesful in the 80s compared with his actual achievements in RG.
This is a line of thinking that can go both ways.

By focusing your argument on "Nole and Rafito", I feel that you're dragging the debate from one tardish extreme to the other.
I've only been talking about Wimbledon and Nole/Rafito's capacity to play old on old school grass. I don't see how your post is relevant at all besides just trying to post shit for the sake of it. Did I say Federer didn't benefit from clay getting faster? I'm not a Federer worshiper at all. I don't even like the guy. I'm not a person who watches his matches and calls every second winner of his "majestic".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
Of course he is, though he's too pompous to admit it

Ajde, etc.
Sorry Nole tards.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:28 PM   #414
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

Nope, sorry Lengtard, but your whole post is based on a bunch of assumptions and guess-work, presented to look as hard cold facts. In the end it's still a guesswork and what-ifs.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:41 PM   #415
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
Instead of portraying those two as one-trick ponies and Roger as the one, the only real magician, you mean?

The clay courts of Roland Garros have been made faster. You could also wonder if Roger, with his preference of faster surfaces with a low bounce, would have been as succesful in the 80s compared with his actual achievements in RG.
This is a line of thinking that can go both ways.

By focusing your argument on "Nole and Rafito", I feel that you're dragging the debate from one tardish extreme to the other.
What the are you talking about? you have to be blind not to see the diffrence between Federer's game on caly versus hardcourt.
Hamburg was the slowest major clay event on tour, and yet Fed won 4 titles on it. He bagled Kuerten there in 2002 and Nadull in 2007.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:53 PM   #416
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

Quote:
Hamburg was the slowest major clay event on tour
Ah yes, the Hamburg defence.

The clay courts of Hamburg had a low bounce, though. Nothing like the high bounce in MC, Rome or RG.

Before I get more tards on my back: I'm not suggesting that Roger is terrible on clay either, far from it. Relax.
But he was able to take advantage of surface developments as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai
I've only been talking about Wimbledon and Nole/Rafito's capacity to play old on old school grass
Exactly.
Why focus only on that - based on assumptions - instead of opening up the debate?
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:57 PM   #417
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
Ah yes, the Hamburg defence.

The clay courts of Hamburg had a low bounce, though. Nothing like the high bounce in MC, Rome or RG.

Before I get more tards on my back: I'm not suggesting that Roger is terrible on clay either, far from it. But he was able to take advantage of surface developments as well.


Exactly.
Why focus only on that - based on assumptions - instead of opening up the debate?
Cause I was responding to another poster's post about it? If you haven't noticed the thread topic has been discussed umpteen times on this board so what is the point of "opening up" the debate again?
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:02 PM   #418
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

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Cause I was responding to another poster's post about it? If you haven't noticed the thread topic has been discussed umpteen times on this board so what is the point of "opening up" the debate again?
So, the alternative is to respond to a tardish point of view with another tardish point of view?
Why not, you may argue, but I don't see why one narrow point of view needs to be criticised if the reply is just as narrow.

What's the point of answering a narrow point of view with a narrow point of view, though? If the topic is discussed to death and only serves as an argument between trolls and tards, the thread might as well be closed.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:04 PM   #419
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

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Cause I was responding to another poster's post about it? If you haven't noticed the thread topic has been discussed umpteen times on this board so what is the point of "opening up" the debate again?
based on what results exactly do you base your claim that fed is a fast courts player?
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:07 PM   #420
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts" thread

Its your opinion my point of is narrow, obviously I disagree.

Your posts here are even more pointless. You're just accusing me of being narrow minded and pointless without any reasoning without contributing anything.
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