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Old 02-04-2012, 10:06 PM   #31
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Default Re: Drugs

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Originally Posted by 2003 View Post
Actually, your wrong.

Liquor is in mummy and daddys cabinet, Heroin isnt.

Similarly, mummy and daddy (or mummy and daddy of friends) can buy it for them legally.

Older friends can also go and buy it for younger ones, and older boyfriend can go and buy it for younger girlfriend and girlfriends friends.

I will say though some drugs might be more cost effective for teens.
Depends what kind of mummy and daddy you have.

Maybe I was exaggerating to say it's easier to get your hands on them but it's certainly easier for high school teens to buy illegal drugs. Obviously there's always a way to get your hands on anything.
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:17 PM   #32
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Default Re: Drugs

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Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
So you're saying they have control but they can't stop people buying drugs? You have any idea how ridiculous you sound? You're happy if you can make it hard enough for people to find a black market dealer to buy their stash. You think that's enough to prove the government is doing its job.
No lol. I'm not saying that at all. Read what I said - which is that the government controls legislation and so can prosecute people for possession of drugs. Prosecuting drug dealers is more a police issue than a government one. All i'm saying is that more people would have access to drugs if they were legal, i'm not making any kind of comment about the effectiveness of strategies implemented to prosecute those involved in the sale of drugs.

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You want evidence? Here you go:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2010/061.pdf
The US DEA has actually done a good job lowering illegal drug use in 16-17 year-olds from nearly 25% in 1999 to 16% in 2009. It's still a very high figure and has cost American tax-payers billions of dollars.
You claimed that it's easier for kids to get hold of cocaine than alcohol. These statistics show a higher percentage of kids have used alcohol than have other drugs. Cocaine isn't specifically mentioned - this doesn't back up what you originally said.

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If you can acknowledge the fact dealers don't care who they're selling to then it shouldn't be hard for you to figure out it's easier for kids to get illegal than legal drugs. A licensed liquor store has motivation to refuse underage customers. What motivation does a dealer have? Even you should be able to put two and two together.
Buying drugs from a dealer is pretty much the only way to buy drugs. There's easier ways to get alcohol than over the counter - get someone else to buy it for you, steal it from parents at home, i'm sure a lot of parents actually allow their kids to have alcohol knowingly anyway. Your own statistics show alcohol usage rates are higher than drug usage rates!!

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No I don't know your background, nor do you know mine. But let's be honest, I don't need to know your entire background and history to tell you're totally ignorant on this issue.
Lol! The difference is that you've made assumptions about me without knowing. If ever there were a sign of ignorance...
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:19 PM   #33
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Default Re: Drugs

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Originally Posted by EddceLLent View Post
Morality and compassion are what make us better than animals.
education and awareness is about the only morality and compassion required on this issue in my opinion... the attempt to save the doomed is a black hole...

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Originally Posted by EddceLLent View Post
My argument isn't that illegality makes problems disappear, it's that legality opens up new avenues that'll result in people taking drugs who wouldn't otherwise be doing so.
legality turns the light on... the avenues will forever exist, however with legality the avenues are open to scrutiny... what would you rather going up your veins... the known, or unknown...?

let the people make their choice and make it safely... that is compassion for you...
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:19 PM   #34
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Default Re: Drugs

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Maybe I was exaggerating
This
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:25 PM   #35
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Default Re: Drugs

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education and awareness is about the only morality and compassion required on this issue in my opinion... the attempt to save the doomed is a black hole...
Will you still be of the same opinion when this section of society that you've completely written off as "doomed" is burgling your house to afford their next fix? You can't just ignore problems like that or they'll come back to bite you in the arse (yes, i'm British )

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legality turns the light on... the avenues exist, however with legality the avenues are open to scrutiny... what would you rather going up your veins... the known, or unknown...?

let the people make their choice and make it safely... that is compassion for you...
I think the number of people consuming the drugs is far more important than the purity of the drugs that are being consumed. If illegality means less people consume drugs then that's what I support.
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:29 PM   #36
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Default Re: Drugs

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Originally Posted by EddceLLent View Post
No lol. I'm not saying that at all. Read what I said - which is that the government controls legislation and so can prosecute people for possession of drugs. Prosecuting drug dealers is more a police issue than a government one. All i'm saying is that more people would have access to drugs if they were legal, i'm not making any kind of comment about the effectiveness of strategies implemented to prosecute those involved in the sale of drugs.


You claimed that it's easier for kids to get hold of cocaine than alcohol. These statistics show a higher percentage of kids have used alcohol than have other drugs. Cocaine isn't specifically mentioned - this doesn't back up what you originally said.


Buying drugs from a dealer is pretty much the only way to buy drugs. There's easier ways to get alcohol than over the counter - get someone else to buy it for you, steal it from parents at home, i'm sure a lot of parents actually allow their kids to have alcohol knowingly anyway. Your own statistics show alcohol usage rates are higher than drug usage rates!!


Lol! The difference is that you've made assumptions about me without knowing. If ever there were a sign of ignorance...
Fair enough. I take back my ignorant comment.

But regarding the statistics, of course people will never consume more hard than soft drugs, legal or illegal. The fact illegal substances are still tried by over half the alcohol consumers to me makes it obvious the police have no control over the situation. But I guess I can understand if you interpret it differently. We'll have to agree to disagree.
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:36 PM   #37
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Default Re: Drugs

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The idea you should prevent people taking drugs in the first place is even more dangerous, as history has proven.
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Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
It doesn't. That's the point.
Unfortunately, this is what history tells.
Banning drugs has NEVER ever stopped anyone using them. It's "Human Nature".

Why is it so hard to just remain realistic and just admit that wherever there's drugs, people will use them? Why is it so hard to at least try and give people proper education about both the pleasures and the risks?
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:53 PM   #38
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Default Re: Drugs

I wish they legalize marijiana in america, instead of cigarettes
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:53 PM   #39
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Default Re: Drugs

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Originally Posted by EddceLLent View Post
Will you still be of the same opinion when this section of society that you've completely written off as "doomed" is burgling your house to afford their next fix? You can't just ignore problems like that or they'll come back to bite you in the arse (yes, i'm British )



I think the number of people consuming the drugs is far more important than the purity of the drugs that are being consumed. If illegality means less people consume drugs then that's what I support.
i lived in the uk for a while once upon a time... if junkies are regularly targeting your house, then time to move down to the road... about a kilometre made the difference... from boscombe to southbourne... no dramas there...

and the addiction treatment centres in boscombe don't really work as intended... the re-use rate once treatment was completed is sickenly high - dealers have an audience they don't need to search for... actually, the treatment centres in boscombe were actually a money making venture - the more offenders seeking help, the more private and state money... 'welcome back Mr Birtwhistle'

so... you know...
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:22 AM   #40
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Default Re: Drugs

People can't be trusted to take care of themselves. Legalize drugs and they will of course get easier to obtain, which I think will eventually lead to more people becoming addicted and more lives ruined. I for one don't share this "if people want to destroy themselves, then let them"-attitude. (Besides, if a person becomes an addict, there is seldom only 1 person who suffers.)
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:55 AM   #41
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Default Re: Drugs

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People can't be trusted to take care of themselves. Legalize drugs and they will of course get easier to obtain, which I think will eventually lead to more people becoming addicted and more lives ruined. I for one don't share this "if people want to destroy themselves, then let them"-attitude. (Besides, if a person becomes an addict, there is seldom only 1 person who suffers.)
Isn't that a bit 'patronizing' to say, at the least?
Many folks use drugs (alcohol, cigarettes, pot, whatever), for incidental recreational use, without getting into any kind of trouble at all.

Legalizing certain drugs might of course make some of them easier to obtain, but still, the officially legalized drugs make a lot more of casualties than the forbidden ones so far...
Forbidding stuff has NEVER ever stopped folks from using it.

It all comes down to proper eduction and information. IMHO.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:01 AM   #42
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Default Re: Drugs

I can only speak about my own experience but drugs are everywhere in Jamaica. The street sale of drugs is a sad pandemic that has corroded society and led to frightening levels of violence. However, possession and use of drugs in Jamaica is strictly illegal and penalties are severe. But legalizing it couldn't solve the problem in term of public health but it could reduce the violence so we can't exclude this possibility.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:26 AM   #43
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Default Re: Drugs

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Isn't that a bit 'patronizing' to say, at the least?
Many folks use drugs (alcohol, cigarettes, pot, whatever), for incidental recreational use, without getting into any kind of trouble at all.
Alright, some people can't be trusted to take care of themselves.
Quote:
Legalizing certain drugs might of course make some of them easier to obtain, but still, the officially legalized drugs make a lot more of casualties than the forbidden ones so far...
Indeed. In part because the illegal ones are harder to obtain.
Quote:
Forbidding stuff has NEVER ever stopped folks from using it.
What? Of course it has. Perhaps not completely but certainly to a certain degree. You might have a point in a scenario where a person really is HELL-bent on getting the stuff in question, but we're talking ordinary folk here. If something is difficult to obtain, then a lot of curious people will consider it not worth the trouble.
Quote:
It all comes down to proper eduction and information. IMHO.
You may call me patronizing but this is borderline naive. People aren't smart/mature enough, especially not when there's peer pressure involved.
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Old 02-05-2012, 02:02 AM   #44
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Default Re: Drugs

I'm a bit torn on the issue. I'd say that when a drug has become commonplace enough in a society that people use it often and its socially widely accepted, then it should be made legal as in this case illegality is just wasting money. This, I feel, is the case of kannabis/marijuana in most Western civilizations.

However, rarely used drugs, some of which can be very addictive, should perhaps stay illegal as then legalizing might only inspire more use and more lives ruined.

I understand the civil liberties point as well though.
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Old 02-05-2012, 03:52 AM   #45
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Default Re: Drugs

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It all comes down to proper eduction and information. IMHO.
I used to think this way. But I've seen too much that leaves me shaking my head. It gives me no joy to say it, but education doesn't work.

You know how many young people end up drugged out of their minds or dead?? Did they ALL have bad parents who didn't talk to them about the dangers? Come on. I've seen it happen to people who had great parents.

As I'm typing this, someone in a first-world country is heading out to the club in hopes of getting lucky with a stranger. And they aren't bringing any condoms with them. Now unless you've been living under a rock for 25 years, you know about AIDS (not to mention unwanted pregnancy). They know; they just choose to disregard.

People have unprecedented amounts of information at their fingertips, yet they are now even eating themselves into obesity, disease and death (with legal and healthy substances... like food!).

George Burns smoked for 80 years and lived to be 100. Steven Tyler snorted half of Colombia in the 70s and 80s and he lived.
It won't happen to me. It won't happen to me.


There is no education against this attitude.
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