[fast_clay]

all prohibition ever did was increase crime and the amount of black money in the system... those who follow the path of self-harming addiction were destined to in any world... the state has no place to put people in nappies and say 'naughty, naughty', it is up to the individual and those responsible for the individual in their formative years to know right from wrong and suffer the consequences for their actions...

illegal or not, people will find a way... the state should have only one position on this: a percentage of drug education in any school's curriculum from ages 12-15... 'visit-a-junkie-in-withdrawal-day'... awareness is all you can offer...

[ballbasher101]

The drugs don't work, they just make you worse . Great song . Seriously drugs are bad. A number of people in the population have addictive personalities. Things will go tits up if drugs are legalised. It will be a free for all. Lets be real people who seriously wants a drug like cocaine to be legalised? The only drug that I can see being legalised is cannabis. I did a literature review on cannabis, that drug is not as safe as people say it is even though the human brain is pretty much wired for cannabis use. Very strange I must say.

[EddceLLent]

Originally Posted by fast_clay

all prohibition ever did was increase crime and the amount of black money in the system

Prohibition? really? it's a long time since the 1930s. This "black money" that you speak of, would you not rather that it's raised by selling people something they want rather than by mugging people? People who commit crime wont suddenly all turn legit if drugs are legalised, they'll turn to other types of crime to sustain themselves.

Originally Posted by fast_clay

those who follow the path of self-harming addiction were destined to in any world

So do you just abandon them as lost causes?

Originally Posted by fast_clay

the state has no place to put people in nappies and say 'naughty, naughty', it is up to the individual and those responsible for the individual in their formative years to know right from wrong and suffer the consequences for their actions...

Reality isn't as simple as right and wrong, no-one in the world can say they've never made a decision that, with hindsight, wasn't a rational one. Thus people can't be relied upon to not take drugs. Illegality as an extra incentive to not take drugs is a good idea if it results in less people becoming addicted.

[Jimnik]

Originally Posted by EddceLLent

Illegality as an extra incentive to not take drugs is a good idea if it results in less people becoming addicted.

It doesn't. That's the point.

[abraxas21]

legalize everything, imho

restrictions should be in place for people under 18/21 y.o. though

[EddceLLent]

Originally Posted by Jimnik

It doesn't. That's the point.

What a ridiculous comment. Of course it does! Are you honestly saying that if drugs were legal, and as such were being marketed persistently by companies selling them, that you don't think any more people would try them (and thus risk become addicted)??? What a ludicrous argument!!!

[Jimnik]

Originally Posted by EddceLLent

What a ridiculous comment. Of course it does! Are you honestly saying that if drugs were legal, and as such were being marketed persistently by companies selling them, that you don't think any more people would try them (and thus risk become addicted)??? What a ludicrous argument!!!

Like most people nowadays you're deluded into thinking the government has the power to control everything. If you knew what it's really like on the streets, you wouldn't be making such naive comments. Fact is, right now, it's easier for 15 year old kids to get their hands on cocaine than alcohol. You really think drug dealers give a shit about the age of their customers? Repressing any industry down towards a black market always causes more problems than it solves.

[leng jai]

This thread isn't very sexy 2003...

[EddceLLent]

Originally Posted by Jimnik

Like most people nowadays you're deluded into thinking the government has the power to control everything

That's not what I said, nor is it what could sensibly be assumed that I was implying. All i'm saying is that the government has control over what's legal and thus what you can be prosecuted for being in possession of. I'm not saying they have the power to stop people from being able to buy drugs, because I accept they're readily available if you know where to look, i'm simply saying the government's control over legislation is a factor which regulates the availability of drugs.

Originally Posted by Jimnik

If you knew what it's really like on the streets, you wouldn't be making such naive comments

Lol! You know absolutely nothing about my background so i'm not sure what it is exactly that's informing you to make such assertions.

Originally Posted by Jimnik

Fact is, right now, it's easier for 15 year old kids to get their hands on cocaine than alcohol.

...and you're basing this on what evidence?

Originally Posted by Jimnik

You really think drug dealers give a shit about the age of their customers? Repressing any industry down towards a black market always causes more problems than it solves.

I didn't say anything about drug dealers worrying about the age of their customers

Drugs will always be available, but if they were legal they'd be more available, and marketed in such a way so as to try and convince people to buy them. This would, without any shadow of a doubt, result in more people taking drugs than you get at the moment. As such, a natural consequence of that would be that more people would become addicted to drugs.

You may get by with dealing in hyperbole normally but let's be honest, you're talking complete nonsense and you only have a point when you try to misrepresent me

[fast_clay]

Originally Posted by EddceLLent

Prohibition? really? it's a long time since the 1930s. This "black money" that you speak of, would you not rather that it's raised by selling people something they want rather than by mugging people? People who commit crime wont suddenly all turn legit if drugs are legalised, they'll turn to other types of crime to sustain themselves.



So do you just abandon them as lost causes?



Reality isn't as simple as right and wrong, no-one in the world can say they've never made a decision that, with hindsight, wasn't a rational one. Thus people can't be relied upon to not take drugs. Illegality as an extra incentive to not take drugs is a good idea if it results in less people becoming addicted.

survival of the fittest, smartest... are you gonna let the populace evolve or not...?

what are your experiences with drugs...? most open minded people would have a qualified opinion...

america's war on drugs is a classic example... it only ever targeted disadvantaged social groups... and did the problem end...? it is growing... the U.S. penal system is so clogged full of minorities doing time for petty crime...

the world is full of bad things eddcellent... make them illegal doesn't make them disappear...

[fast_clay]

Originally Posted by EddceLLent

...and you're basing this on what evidence?

common sense would say... in the suburbs of most western countries...

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by EddceLLent

...and you're basing this on what evidence?

I don't think there is any kind if issues with drugs in US high schools anymore. If there ever was one to start with, it might be just a myth.

Thanks to clever information campaigns.

[Jimnik]

Originally Posted by EddceLLent

That's not what I said, nor is it what could sensibly be assumed that I was implying. All i'm saying is that the government has control over what's legal and thus what you can be prosecuted for being in possession of. I'm not saying they have the power to stop people from being able to buy drugs, because I accept they're readily available if you know where to look, i'm simply saying the government's control over legislation is a factor which regulates the availability of drugs.


Lol! You know absolutely nothing about my background so i'm not sure what it is exactly that's informing you to make such assertions.


...and you're basing this on what evidence?


I didn't say anything about drug dealers worrying about the age of their customers

Drugs will always be available, but if they were legal they'd be more available, and marketed in such a way so as to try and convince people to buy them. This would, without any shadow of a doubt, result in more people taking drugs than you get at the moment. As such, a natural consequence of that would be that more people would become addicted to drugs.

You may get by with dealing in hyperbole normally but let's be honest, you're talking complete nonsense and you only have a point when you try to misrepresent me

So you're saying they have control but they can't stop people buying drugs? You have any idea how ridiculous you sound? You're happy if you can make it hard enough for people to find a black market dealer to buy their stash. You think that's enough to prove the government is doing its job.

You want evidence? Here you go:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2010/061.pdf
The US DEA has actually done a good job lowering illegal drug use in 16-17 year-olds from nearly 25% in 1999 to 16% in 2009. It's still a very high figure and has cost American tax-payers billions of dollars.

If you can acknowledge the fact dealers don't care who they're selling to then it shouldn't be hard for you to figure out it's easier for kids to get illegal than legal drugs. A licensed liquor store has motivation to refuse underage customers. What motivation does a dealer have? Even you should be able to put two and two together.

No I don't know your background, nor do you know mine. But let's be honest, I don't need to know your entire background and history to tell you're totally ignorant on this issue.

[2003]

Originally Posted by Jimnik

If you can acknowledge the fact dealers don't care who they're selling to then it shouldn't be hard for you to figure out it's easier for kids to get illegal than legal drugs. A licensed liquor store has motivation to refuse underage customers. What motivation does a dealer have? Even you should be able to put two and two together.

No I don't know your background, nor do you know mine. But let's be honest, I don't need to know your entire background and history to tell you're totally ignorant on this issue.

Actually, your wrong.

Liquor is in mummy and daddys cabinet, Heroin isnt.

Similarly, mummy and daddy (or mummy and daddy of friends) can buy it for them legally.

Older friends can also go and buy it for younger ones, and older boyfriend can go and buy it for younger girlfriend and girlfriends friends.

I will say though some drugs might be more cost effective for teens.

[EddceLLent]

Originally Posted by fast_clay

survival of the fittest, smartest... are you gonna let the populace evolve or not...?

Morality and compassion are what make us better than animals.

Originally Posted by fast_clay

the world is full of bad things eddcellent... make them illegal doesn't make them disappear...

My argument isn't that illegality makes problems disappear, it's that legality opens up new avenues that'll result in people taking drugs who wouldn't otherwise be doing so.

Originally Posted by fast_clay

what are your experiences with drugs...?

I smoked weed for 5 years, a lot of that time I did it pretty much constantly. I was depressed before I started and so thought, contrary to what my friends told me, that my continued drug use wasn't relevant to my continued depression. It was a crux, whenever I wanted to "get away" from my thoughts i'd get high without realising that it stopped me from ever properly confronting stuff. It made me less able to deal with adversity without resorting to drugs. It was difficult to stop, but I haven't smoked for like a year.