[masterclass]

Originally Posted by Matt01

Hey Mr. Masterclass, what categories and how fast are IW and Miami?

Hi Matt,

Indian Wells:
According to a Plexipave article here, the Plexipave IW surface is Category 1 Slow (24-29), but for some reason, according to the ITF tech surface pace list shown here, Plexipave IW is Category 2 Medium Slow (30-34). Either way, remember that the base court pace can be altered via resurfacing to adjust the speed. Most players agree that this is one of the slowest hardcourts in the Masters series.

Miami:
The Crandon Park courts are Laykold Cushion Plus MS which is rated by ITF (see link above) as Category 2 Medium Slow (30-34). It's generally considered a bit faster than Indian Wells, mainly because Indian Wells appears to have a higher bounce. Again, resurfacing of the basic surface can alter the speed/bounce somewhat. Also, as mentioned by others, weather can also affect the playing speed, so if high humidity is present in Miami, it could also slow down play.

--------------------

I believe the tennis authorities should make it mandatory for tournaments to publicly display and record the surface court pace that has been tested using standardized testing methods by an accredited tester (non-tournament affiliated). For hardcourts or carpet, the frequency of testing could be once just prior to the start of a tournament (yearly), or at a minimum, following each resurfacing or replacement. Grass and clay are a bit more problematic as the surface can vary daily depending on conditions, so I think testing would need to be done yearly, ideally prior to and after the conclusion of the tournament (so one could get an average). Tournament results should also include the court pace rating in their statistics. From the ITF site, it appears that on-site accredited testing costs 500 dollars (US), so probably the expense of testing could be picked up by the tournament or from some shared pool of funds.

Regards,
masterclass

[masterclass]

Originally Posted by philosophicalarf

The balls are all type2 now.

Hi philosophicalarf,

Thanks for this. Though various ball types appears to be within the ITF guidelines. I wasn't sure if a tournament was permitted to change ball type or not. So instead of publishing the ball type, perhaps the ball brand should be made known/recorded, if it isn't already.

Originally Posted by philosophicalarf

That might lead to misunderstandings...

Environment and ball brand can be certainly be a factor, but I think the surface is primary. It might be nice to list environment characteristics on the scoreboard, but people can get this from the weather report or elsewhere.

If the ball types are all type 2, they should theoretically start with similar bounce/compression characteristics, though this can change during the match depending on the ball's "wear factor", characteristics of deterioration of the ball via use and court surface. Perhaps there is a ball "wear factor", but I know of no measurement for this.

Regards,
masterclass

[masterclass]

Originally Posted by fran70

...Your posts are AMAZING...

Thanks for the kind words Fran.
No worries.

Regards,
masterclass

[philosophicalarf]

Originally Posted by masterclass

Hi philosophicalarf,

Thanks for this. Though various ball types appears to be within the ITF guidelines. I wasn't sure if a tournament was permitted to change ball type or not. So instead of publishing the ball type, perhaps the ball brand should be made known/recorded, if it isn't already.

Yeah, it's not talked about much, unless you get some moaning from a player, or it changes at a slam. There is an ITF/ATP factsheet that goes out for each tournament with the exact ball used though, been that way for at least a decade I know of (got copies going back that far anyway!). So it's not exactly hidden .... but neither is much made of it.


With regard to Indian Wells: the "slow" rating was the previous, from 2009 iirc. They get recertified every few years, so possibly if it's about on the border then natural variation means it'll alternate between slow and medium/slow. I'd agree it's probably a slower surface than Miami most years, with IW's desert air compensating a bit (although Miami seemed especially slow this year).

[Johnny Groove]

I've been to IW and Miami, and the climate definitely plays a part. I think in regards to surface, IW is the slowest, and Miami is also pretty slow, but a bit quicker than IW.

But, Miami's high humidity causes the ball to slow down. Also, it is usually windy down here, year round, and thus the players are less apt to go for big shots. So to the TV viewer, the court may seem even slower than usual.

[August]

I haven't followed tennis enough many years to properly answer to this thread's question. But, from what I've read, grass is nowadays slower and clay maybe faster. The reason to this is that governing bodies want to make surfaces more similar and thus enable same players to succeed on all surfaces. To succeed on grass you almost have to be an all-rounder, old-school grass specialist can't anymore succeed on the slower grass. Having same players winning on each surface helps to create superstars, players who you can expect to win in whatever tournament on whatever surface, and superstars are what commercial rights holders want. Having different players succeeding on different surfaces makes tennis more difficult to market. Also, more similar surfaces make achieving GS a bit easier, and player achieving GS, or even playing for it in USO, will bring much extra publicity for tennis.

I'd personally prefer more variety in court speeds, achieving GS with a win at ultra-fast Wimbledon and ultra-slow RG would be a really respectable achievement.

[DDrago2]

[Roddickominator]

For the sake of some variance in the game(both in playing styles and in upsets), speed up the courts.

[feuselino]

My letter to Santa: slow down clay, speed up hard courts and grass, bring back carpet.

[MariaV]

Originally Posted by feuselino

My letter to Santa: slow down clay, speed up hard courts and grass, bring back carpet.

Too bad Santa doesn't exist.

[Certinfy]

The ATP want more Djokovic vs Nadal finals so they won't speed up the courts.

[r2473]

Should they go back to "rebound ace" at AO? I think its faster now than it was in the past.

Is the US Open too slow too?

WTF finals / O2 arena?

How fast should the courts be?

Should they all be fast?

Do we want to go back to 90's Sampras style tennis?

[rocketassist]

Originally Posted by r2473

Is the US Open too slow too?

WTF finals / O2 arena?

How fast should the courts be?

Should they all be fast?

Do we want to go back to 90's Sampras style tennis?

90s being all serve is overrated. Muster, Courier, Bruguera could all grind on the clay, Kafelnikov, Agassi and Courier could all play strong hardcourt games and Sampras, Ivanisevic, a twilight Becker and Rafter ruled the grass.

Speed up IW and Miami to medium pace, make USO fast again, speed up Canada to Cincy levels, slow down clay, speed up the grass, bring back carpet, there you go.

There needs to be a system that allows different game styles to be successful. Why do you think I haven't subscribed to the Dimitrov hype despite liking his game? Cause his finesse game doesn't give him a cat in hell's chance of reaching the top because of the speed of the courts.

[manadrainer]

Yes please, Nole had to hit 5 winners each time to win a point yesterday...

[petar_pan]

Originally Posted by manadrainer

Yes please, Nole had to hit 5 winners each time to win a point yesterday...

This.