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Old 01-09-2012, 08:22 AM   #31
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Default Re: western women converting to Islam

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
without claiming expertise, isn't the same for all religions really? if you want to marry in a Catholic Church you and your couple will be required to convert to Catholicism (if they're not already).

if you want to marry in some sinagog (or whereever it is where the Jews get married), you'll have to convert to Judaism

why should we expect Islam to be different?

i think the real matter is that a lot of people assume all Muslims are totally driven by their religion. needless to say, that's far from being a reality. to that extent, one can easily cite the example of marat safin who is a Muslim and yet doesn't seem too compromised with a life of religious fervor.
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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
This appears to be nonsense. If you want to get married in some cheaphell (or wherever it is where the Catholics get married) then probably, yes, one of the couple should preferably be Catholic, duh!
But there is no requirement for the other person to convert, or that the children should be brought up as Catholic, for that matter.
It's always been my understanding that the Catholic church allows a Catholic to marry a non-Catholic under the condition that the children are brought up Catholic. The non-Catholic parent is not forced to convert, though.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:04 PM   #32
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Default Re: western women converting to Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
without claiming expertise, isn't the same for all religions really? if you want to marry in a Catholic Church you and your couple will be required to convert to Catholicism (if they're not already).

if you want to marry in some sinagog (or whereever it is where the Jews get married), you'll have to convert to Judaism

why should we expect Islam to be different?

i think the real matter is that a lot of people assume all Muslims are totally driven by their religion. needless to say, that's far from being a reality. to that extent, one can easily cite the example of marat safin who is a Muslim and yet doesn't seem too compromised with a life of religious fervor.
I don't claim expertise either, but I've always understood Islam to be more strict about a non-believer converting to Islam if the non-believer wishes to marry a believer. That's what I've heard from all my Muslims friends at least (I'm actually Singaporean, not Australian, in case anyone's fooled by my fake country flag). I have had next to zero experience with Judaism so I can't comment, but if I do marry my Christian boyfriend, it'd probably be in a church - and I have zero intention of converting (I'd also have a secular wedding for sure though).

Back to Islam - I'm of the view that there's no one right "Islamic way", so to speak (well, duh, really); it's just that this "conversion by virtue of marriage" thing has appeared to me to happen more frequently for Islam than other religions.

I see your point re. your last paragraph. That said, from my experience, the Muslims that I know generally tend to follow their religious practices more than the Christians, Catholics or Buddhists. When I say that I don't mean they wear a burqa or whatever (although many Muslim women in Singapore do); they just tend to follow certain rituals more than followers of other faiths. Friday prayers, for instance; on the other hand, some of my Christian friends barely go to church.

Of course, that may just be simply a matter of 1) I know more Christians/etc than Muslims; and 2) Islam has more religious rituals, maybe. I just find it interesting, this seeming difference between followers of Islam and followers of other religions.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: western women converting to Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
This appears to be nonsense. If you want to get married in some cheaphell (or wherever it is where the Catholics get married) then probably, yes, one of the couple should preferably be Catholic, duh!
But there is no requirement for the other person to convert, or that the children should be brought up as Catholic, for that matter.
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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
It's always been my understanding that the Catholic church allows a Catholic to marry a non-Catholic under the condition that the children are brought up Catholic. The non-Catholic parent is not forced to convert, though.
fair enough. point taken.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:35 PM   #34
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Default Re: western women converting to Islam

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Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
I don't claim expertise either, but I've always understood Islam to be more strict about a non-believer converting to Islam if the non-believer wishes to marry a believer. That's what I've heard from all my Muslims friends at least (I'm actually Singaporean, not Australian, in case anyone's fooled by my fake country flag). I have had next to zero experience with Judaism so I can't comment, but if I do marry my Christian boyfriend, it'd probably be in a church - and I have zero intention of converting (I'd also have a secular wedding for sure though).

Back to Islam - I'm of the view that there's no one right "Islamic way", so to speak (well, duh, really); it's just that this "conversion by virtue of marriage" thing has appeared to me to happen more frequently for Islam than other religions.

I see your point re. your last paragraph. That said, from my experience, the Muslims that I know generally tend to follow their religious practices more than the Christians, Catholics or Buddhists. When I say that I don't mean they wear a burqa or whatever (although many Muslim women in Singapore do); they just tend to follow certain rituals more than followers of other faiths. Friday prayers, for instance; on the other hand, some of my Christian friends barely go to church.

Of course, that may just be simply a matter of 1) I know more Christians/etc than Muslims; and 2) Islam has more religious rituals, maybe. I just find it interesting, this seeming difference between followers of Islam and followers of other religions.
yes, even though i literally know no Muslisms, i take it as granted that on the whole scheme of things they're generally more devouted to their religion than Christians.
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:55 PM   #35
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Default Re: western women converting to Islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
without claiming expertise, isn't the same for all religions really? if you want to marry in a Catholic Church you and your couple will be required to convert to Catholicism (if they're not already).

if you want to marry in some sinagog (or whereever it is where the Jews get married), you'll have to convert to Judaism

why should we expect Islam to be different?

i think the real matter is that a lot of people assume all Muslims are totally driven by their religion. needless to say, that's far from being a reality. to that extent, one can easily cite the example of marat safin who is a Muslim and yet doesn't seem too compromised with a life of religious fervor.
Really, I don’t know where you live, but in the United States this is not true at all. Jews are married to Christians, Catholics to Baptists, and all sorts of religious mixings. I even know of one couple of jewish and hindu faiths. Of course, the norm is that a couple decides together how or if they want to worship.

I have heard that a muslim woman cannot marry a non-muslim man. I suppose there is some tradition that the children take the religion of the father. Whereas in the jewish tradition, children born of a jewish mother are jewish. These sorts of things are rooted in culture and don’t make a lot of sense in a society where religions can flourish together and people are free to marry whom they choose.

Also there are all kinds of different adherence to faith. Clearly Marat Safin is not a devout Muslim although he may identify with having been raised as a chid in that culture. I was identify with a Christian culture because that’s how I was raised, but I don’t claim the status of a believer.
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Old 01-09-2012, 04:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: western women converting to Islam

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Originally Posted by HKz View Post
I'm Muslim and my wife is Christian I certainly never forced her to convert, even though she has offered to.
the other way around is prohibited in Islam, a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man

does it sound fair to you? it sure doesn't to me
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:45 PM   #37
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Default Re: western women converting to Islam

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Originally Posted by habibko View Post
the other way around is prohibited in Islam, a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man

does it sound fair to you? it sure doesn't to me
I've got this same explanation for the same question(Why a Muslim man can marry a non-Muslim women while a Muslim Woman can not?) a long time ago. And just now I found it in a website.
Actually it is all about having belief in Prophets and the Holy books.
Quote:
Allowing a Muslim man to marry a Christian or a Jewish woman, is an exceptional rule applied under special circumstances. And when a Muslim man marries a Christian or a Jewish woman, there is no problem, because he believes in all prophets, and all holy books. There will be no problem between him and his wife in this matter, especially that his religion -Islam- commands him to be fair with his wife even if she were Christian or Jewish. And any Muslim man going through such marriage should have strong belief in his faith, and should strongly abide by his religion.

The reason for forbidding a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim, is that a Christian or a Jewish man believes only in his prophet, and doesn’t believe in prophet Mohamed Salla Allah Allih Wa Salam or any of the other prophets (blessing be upon them).

For example, when this Muslim woman, tries to teach her kids to love and respect all prophets and believe in all of them, her non-Muslim husband will not agree, because he believes only in his prophet. He will interfere in the way she raises her kids, and prevents her from raising them in an Islamic way. And here comes the real problem, because she will have only two options, whether she leaves the whole thing as it is, and does nothing about it -which will be an insult to her religion- or she argues about the matter, and this will sure lead to more marital problems.

On the other hand, there will be no such problems between a Muslim husband, and a non Muslim wife, because if this wife tried to teach her kids to love and believe in her prophet, her Muslim husband will not refuse that because he already believes in her prophet and all prophets. This is why Islam allows the marriage between Muslim man and non-Muslim woman, and forbids the marriage between Muslim woman, and non-Muslim man. Because Islam respects the marital relationship and wants to guarantee its stability, not because it respects men, and disrespects women …
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:03 PM   #38
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Default Re: western women converting to Islam

what bullshit, I can easily write that this way to make my case

Quote:
Allowing a Muslim woman to marry a Christian or a Jewish man, is an exceptional rule applied under special circumstances. And when a Muslim woman marries a Christian or a Jewish man, there is no problem, because she believes in all prophets, and all holy books. There will be no problem between her and her husband in this matter, especially that her religion -Islam- commands her to be good to her husband even if he were Christian or Jewish. And any Muslim woman going through such marriage should have strong belief in her faith, and should strongly abide by her religion.

The reason for forbidding a Muslim man from marrying a non-Muslim, is that a Christian or a Jewish woman believes only in her prophet, and doesn’t believe in prophet Mohamed Salla Allah Allih Wa Salam or any of the other prophets (blessing be upon them).

For example, when this Muslim man, tries to teach his kids to love and respect all prophets and believe in all of them, his non-Muslim wife will not agree, because she believes only in her prophet. She will interfere in the way he raises his kids, and prevents him from raising them in an Islamic way. And here comes the real problem, because he will have only two options, whether he leaves the whole thing as it is, and does nothing about it -which will be an insult to his religion- or he argues about the matter, and this will sure lead to more marital problems.

On the other hand, there will be no such problems between a Muslim wife, and a non Muslim husband, because if this husband tried to teach his kids to love and believe in his prophet, his Muslim wife will not refuse that because she already believes in his prophet and all prophets. This is why Islam allows the marriage between Muslim woman and non-Muslim man, and forbids the marriage between Muslim man, and non-Muslim woman. Because Islam respects the marital relationship and wants to guarantee its stability, not because it respects women, and disrespects men …
let's pretend it has nothing with giving a man (who happens to be the one dictating the religion) more rights for himself when he happens to lust over a girl that isn't of his same religion, and then deny women the same right

reminds me of the whole polygamy debate and why women aren't allowed 4 men, traditionally they said because then how can we know who the father is? yet now in the age of DNA profiling and that out of the question it still is prohibited
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:47 AM   #39
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Default Re: western women converting to Islam

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Originally Posted by habibko View Post
the other way around is prohibited in Islam, a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man

does it sound fair to you? it sure doesn't to me
Yes true. But a Muslim woman can marry a non-Muslim man if he converted to Muslim right?

Yes it doesn't sound fair at all.
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