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Old 11-21-2011, 08:17 AM   #61
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
I have never encountered a christian like Aloimeh IRL, and I've met quite a few christians.

Anyway, what I find frustrating, even tragic, is that these rough discussions never even have any progress. The thing with christianity is that, while you can like or dislike it as a religion, you cannot truly understand it until you have experienced it yourself. This is the reason for all misunderstandings and all the prejudice about christians being "brain washed".

Now, I'm not saying brain wash is not possible. I have talked to Jehovah's Witnesses who have looked at me with such blanc and empty eyes it was scary. It was like their mind was buried somewhere, I couldn't "see" the person I was talking to even if I had eye contact.
However the Bible actually encourages the reader to check if the things it says actually works. (With an open mind, that is. If someone is not really searching for God then probably nothing will happen. God will not violate the free will.)
I think this applies to all religions. Christianity - and in recent times, Islam - tends to get a bad rep because of people like Aloimeh and evangelists who insist on propagating their religion even when people aren't interested, and sometimes resorting to rather despicable ways to do so (example: denigrating another religion. This always annoys me. And telling people that they will go to hell if they don't convert. How is this supposed to make me want to be a Christian?).

I don't think all Christians are brainwashed. I do, however, think that there will always be certain people that subscribe to a particular faith, whatever it is, that are brainwashed by their religion. Look at those Islamic fundamentalists. Look at the morons who called for Salman Rushdie's death for publishing a novel. Those people are brainwashed. Aloimeh appears brainwashed to me. It's just pointless discussing such issues with people who are so narrow-minded that they can't even see the extent to which their minds have been closed by their beliefs.

I did at one point keep an open mind regarding religion, and being in a Catholic school meant that I was exposed to the Christian faith on a daily basis. After a while, though, I decided that none of it made sense to me and therefore chose atheism.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:21 AM   #62
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Seingeist: I realize more and more that people do not reject the Bible because of misogyny, the problem of evil, lack of scientific evidence, or anything like that. They reject God because they love sin and they hate a God who judges sin, and one who judges it most severely. They will get their just recompense. God has been more than merciful allowing vile creatures who burn his scripture to continue in this state for decade after decade. It will come to an end sooner and later and then these reprobates will meet their maker and feed the eternal fires of hell.
why wait so long, the LORD has given good people like you permission to carry his punishment on Earth before the day of judgement, I say you should go and take care of those fuckers who defile the word of the LORD by your own hands, OT-style

this is what religion does to you ladies and gentlemen, the more seriously you take it, the more vile, despicable and intolerant you become, first he pretends he's a man of science, and now this good Christian and man of God admits he fancy the idea of people burning eternally in hellfire and looks forward to it
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:25 AM   #63
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Believe it or not, I was actually once religious, around the time of my confirmation and a few years after that. But slowly doubt crept in and my views have changed. While I might be open to a vague notion of a deity (and I don't believe in that either), it certainly has nothing to do with any that the organized religions promote. I am still a member of the church for some personal reasons, though I plan to separate from it later on in my life.

But I think saying that "nothing will happen without an open mind" is a bit disrespectful towards some people (or perhaps I'm misinterpreting). I'm willing to bet there are hundreds that have really struggled and tried to find their faith but have "failed" and are now atheists. I've heard many such things in the US for example, where faith is such a big deal. Losing their faith there has been a tremendous process and involved a LOT of Bible studies etc. Are you saying that they have not approached the subject with an open mind?
That is a very good question. I will try to answer it tomorrow if you don't mind - been up for 30 hours straight as of now.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:34 AM   #64
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

According to Pascal's wager, we should believe in God. It's statistically more advantageous.
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Old 11-21-2011, 11:20 AM   #65
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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According to Pascal's wager, we should believe in God. It's statistically more advantageous.
It's not really a choice, though. If God is truly omniscient, he will see right through the act.

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Old 11-21-2011, 11:48 AM   #66
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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I hope this rabid creature also realizes that she's guilty of arson and destruction of property, which could additionally be construed as reckless endangerment, theft, and vandalism. All felonies.

I hope she gets caught some day, but given the fleshpots/whorehouses/hellholes she visits that cater to her kind, I bear no illusion that she will face justice and indeed am surprised that Bibles are allowed in those dog kennels/leper colonies.

But she will get what's hers in the final day of judgment and ever after.
Hm... the really rabid thing here is your post I'm afraid. Since you claim you are Serb/part Serb, maybe you'll recollect what the former Patriarch of the Serbian Orthodox Church said, "Let's be human even though we are Serbs".
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:40 PM   #67
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

To get involved in this thread for me would be akin to getting involved in a thread about the sun orbiting the earth. With one side arguing in favour, because there are ancient scriptures that do indeed prove that the sun orbits the earth.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:45 PM   #68
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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I asked for a quote challenging my assertion that the hatered of Deuteronomy is incompatible with the teachings of Jesus. You did not deliver.

It must be nice to be able brush off such gross inconsistencies with the cop out "it was right at the time". Could you elaborate on when and why God changed His mind from "love strangers" to "enslave strangers"?

No message of universal love? What do you call this then?

"You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you"

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another"

"Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse"

"Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble"

and so on...
1.) It's not a gross inconsistency. In Deuteronomy God is addressing Israel in ~1500 B.C. In the Gospels, God is addressing Israel and wider the wider Gentile world in the 1st century. For you to pretend that things had not changed in 1500 years is disingenuous.

In ~1500 B.C. Canaan was inhabited by a vicious, pagan, idolatrous, fornicating, child sacrificing group worthy of God's judgment. They got. it. Additionally, Israel was a nascent nation with a new religion and allowing that faith to become adulterated with paganism was very dangerous. That's why the commands regarding dealing with the Canaanites were so comprehensive.

I don't know what passages you find offensive - there are some that I find hard to bear - but I accept them. It's called believing in God and His word. You don't get to pick and choose what you like believing and what you dislike believing. That's not what faith's all about.

2.) Regarding universal love, I'd say that's not entirely off for how we humans are to behave amongst each other. The reason I took you up on it is because so often people love to scream "God loves everyone" even while persisting in gross sin. God gave us all Christ and has given us the opportunity to believe in Him, which is an act of great love. God has not accepted us in our sinful unbelieving state and anyone who preaches that God's loving everyone means everyone goes to heaven is a filthy liar. Clearly God doesn't love those in hell.
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You can bet Djokovic's mom just screamed "Another king is dead" right about now - in the remotest corner - of her bathroom - followed by "The other one is buried." (from tennisplanet.me, following Madrid 2011 Djokovic d. Nadal 7-5 6-4)
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:52 PM   #69
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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If your alleged god lumps the "actions" of gays like me together with those of killers and thieves and sexual criminals, then I am even more glad your god doesn't exist.

As for the subject of this thread, any fool with an iota of literacy can easily see where the Bible is misogynistic. The punishments proscribed for sexual "crimes" are generally far harsher for a woman than they are for men, as they also are for men who abandon the traditional male gender role (i.e. take on the "woman's role") by lying with other men. And despite the Bible's claim that women's status as childbearers is a holy/divine role, the rules for pregnant or menstruating women are all based around the idea that women are unclean. A woman who has just discharged her "holy" duty to "be fruitful and multiply" by giving birth is considered unclean and is considered unworthy to enter the tabernacle without offering a blood sacrifice after she waits the proscribed period: if she gives birth to a boy she is unclean for a week and must wait 33 days to be purified, whereas if she gives birth to a girl she is unclean for two weeks and must wait 66 days. This is misogyny plain and simple, predicated on the notion that women are unclean and of less worth. This notion of women being ritually unclean is not unique to Christianity but it's a major part of its history, and is the root of all the rules which are still in place in some Christian denominations that bar women from participating in the religion as fully as men do, whether it be their prohibition from distributing communion, teaching in church, touching sacred objects, or being ordained.

People can cry all they want about critics "cherry-picking" bad verses from the Bible to delegitimize it. Those people never stop to wonder why there is a veritable smorgasbord of verses for us "critics" to choose from, and how they themselves are cherry-picking the verses out of the Bible that makes them feel comfortable and happy with the religion they've chosen. They need to examine how they are conveniently absolving themselves of any responsibility for the hate and discrimination perpetrated on millions with the justification of Bible passages they claim to disavow even as they try to defend the book as a legitimate moral authority and Guide to Living.
Unfortunately for you He does exist, whether you finds that threatening or not.

The Bible is not particularly misogynistic, although it would be true to say that it is patriarchal.

For instance, the Old Testament laws oftentimes go way beyond those of other societies in putting women on a more equal footing. The commandment tells us to honor both our father and mother (not just the father). It also says that a child who curses or strikes his mother - just like his father - is worthy of punishment (death). In adultery, both the man and woman get stoned. When it's clear that it was **** only the rapist gets stoned.

Christianity, on the other hand, gives women practically equal rights. Read the Gospels. Women are discriminated against in terms of church service and are to be subject to their husbands in the home, but anyone reading the Gospel will see just how prominent of a role women had in Jesus' ministry - Mary, Elizabeth, Anna, Mary & Martha, Mary Magdalene, etc.
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You can bet Djokovic's mom just screamed "Another king is dead" right about now - in the remotest corner - of her bathroom - followed by "The other one is buried." (from tennisplanet.me, following Madrid 2011 Djokovic d. Nadal 7-5 6-4)
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:57 PM   #70
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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I know you mistyped. Doesn't change the fact that you lumped together gays with actual criminals and tried to argue that your god only hates all of our actions. Because your god and some of its followers believe that me loving another consenting adult is a sin that needs to be forgiven the same way as someone shooting up a liquor store. Any god who can come up with that is either or fascist.

Your larger paragraph is basically a bunch of fallaciously argued gobbledygook so I'm not going to even touch that with a ten-foot-pole. But as to your "lifestyle" comments, you are way off base with that one. My penchant for Thai food and hiking is part of my lifestyle; the person I fall in love with isn't a "lifestyle."
Gays are criminals in Iran. So what? You're mixing up morals with laws. In some societies it is illegal to be gay/engage in gay sex. I am sure you disapprove of such laws. In other societies it's perfectly OK to be gay. I disagree with those laws myself. So we can only speak of morals here.

The Bible clearly censures homosexuality, male homosexuality specifically in the Old Testament, and both male and female homosexuality in the New Testament.

Before going on a rampage against God because he puts a damper on your desires and behavior, maybe it's time you consider whether or not you have a firm moral foundation for believing your feelings/behavior to be right.

What, exactly, tells you that it's OK to be gay other than the fact that you are so and it feels good (to you)?
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Nole fan: "...most Fedtards seem to be very rabid and rude." (I agree 100%)

You can bet Djokovic's mom just screamed "Another king is dead" right about now - in the remotest corner - of her bathroom - followed by "The other one is buried." (from tennisplanet.me, following Madrid 2011 Djokovic d. Nadal 7-5 6-4)
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:04 PM   #71
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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The only possible explanation for your post is that you're not actually being serious and that you're merely parodying what a hardcore Christian would say. Otherwise, I'd find it - and you, by extension - slightly worrying.

I saw Sunset's post about burning pages from the Bible. My post did not address whether I approved or disapproved with her actions. My post addressed only the vile nature of your response to her, which at least matched, if not exceeded, the offensive nature of her actions. On second thought, I would say that you came out tops in the contest of whose post was more disgusting - your post smacked of the kind of irrational and hateful spite that I hope to never come in contact with in my daily, offline life. Thankfully most of the Christians that I've encountered in my life are normal people.
Really, it doesn't surprise me that you didn't post about her behavior, because you seem to think it not particularly bad.

Let's see: hate crime (hatred of Judaism and Christianity), destruction of the property of others, vandalism, arson in a hotel. Anything I left out? The woman is guilty of multiple felonies in every hotel in which Bibles are kept in the bedrooms. She's admitted as much herself.

Your response: let's talk about Aloimeh's outraged words on an internet forum instead of dealing with her arson.

Lest we forget: "Where they burn books, so too will they in the end burn human beings." (Heine)

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Sorry, didn't understand what you meant by "polite and saccharine" story. I can say, however, that almost all my friends are Christians and they've presented a way better version of Christianity than you have on this forum, and not just in this thread.

And of course, trust you to imply that my friends' version of Christianity is flawed.

If that's your version of love, then I fear for your enemies.
I mean that the Jesus gentle, sweet, and mild image is not effective for all or even most people. It's also a half-truth. There's a whole other side of God - the holy, perfect judge - that needs to be conveyed to unbelievers. If your friends are anything like what you say they are, I suppose they are the sort that say "I totally understand where you're coming from. I personally believe in Jesus as my savior, but I can understand your different belief system, and that's OK."

It's NOT OK. It's not just false, it's not Christianity at all.

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I agree completely with the bolded parts. I've always thought it somewhat ironic that, as an atheist, some of my closest friends are practising Christians. In fact, my boyfriend is a Christian. I went to a Catholic school. At least 99% of the Christians that I've encountered are nothing like Aloimeh. There weren't many like him in my school either.
Catholicism is as different from Christianity as from Islam.
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Nole fan: "...most Fedtards seem to be very rabid and rude." (I agree 100%)

You can bet Djokovic's mom just screamed "Another king is dead" right about now - in the remotest corner - of her bathroom - followed by "The other one is buried." (from tennisplanet.me, following Madrid 2011 Djokovic d. Nadal 7-5 6-4)
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:05 PM   #72
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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Oh wow. This thread turned to shit faster than it would take heya to troll a Roddick thread.

First of all, I am what they in the states would call a born-again christian. Secondly, it's worth repeating that Aloimeh is a TERRIBLE spokesperson for Christianity. He seems to love judging others despite the fact that the Bible strictly says we don't have a right to do that since we all fail sometimes.

Whoa. Karin, if you have any trust at all in me as a friend, believe this: Christianity is not as crazy as it sounds. Aloimeh is just the worst representation of this religion. Believe me this once, I know first hand what I'm talking about. Within the Bible there are places which I don't really understand, Deu 22 is one of them, but as a whole it is an incredible book. I have read it through.

However I won't deny there are some intolerant, hateful people in this world who call themselves christians who think the Bible instructs them to hate certain groups. This is clearly not the message of the Bible though, which anyone can see if they study it closer.
How can you possibly call yourself Christian? You make no comment about a woman torching portions of the Holy Scriptures even while attacking me and distancing yourself from true Christianity because of my verbal response to that witch's disgusting acts of arson?
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Nole fan: "...most Fedtards seem to be very rabid and rude." (I agree 100%)

You can bet Djokovic's mom just screamed "Another king is dead" right about now - in the remotest corner - of her bathroom - followed by "The other one is buried." (from tennisplanet.me, following Madrid 2011 Djokovic d. Nadal 7-5 6-4)
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:08 PM   #73
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

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How can you possibly call yourself Christian? You make no comment about a woman torching portions of the Holy Scriptures even while attacking me and distancing yourself from true Christianity because of my verbal response to that witch's disgusting acts of arson?
dude, stop. seriously... just stop

you know, i always kind of despised some of those intolerant atheists in the USA for being such idiots towards Christians. however, if there are several like you in the USA, i can fully understand them
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:10 PM   #74
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I think this applies to all religions. Christianity - and in recent times, Islam - tends to get a bad rep because of people like Aloimeh and evangelists who insist on propagating their religion even when people aren't interested, and sometimes resorting to rather despicable ways to do so (example: denigrating another religion. This always annoys me. And telling people that they will go to hell if they don't convert. How is this supposed to make me want to be a Christian?).

I don't think all Christians are brainwashed. I do, however, think that there will always be certain people that subscribe to a particular faith, whatever it is, that are brainwashed by their religion. Look at those Islamic fundamentalists. Look at the morons who called for Salman Rushdie's death for publishing a novel. Those people are brainwashed. Aloimeh appears brainwashed to me. It's just pointless discussing such issues with people who are so narrow-minded that they can't even see the extent to which their minds have been closed by their beliefs.

I did at one point keep an open mind regarding religion, and being in a Catholic school meant that I was exposed to the Christian faith on a daily basis. After a while, though, I decided that none of it made sense to me and therefore chose atheism.
Well your friends lovey-dovey BS doesn't seem to have convinced you to believe. I can see that the other approach doesn't either.

Again, Catholicism is as far from Christianity as Islam or Hinduism. Stop telling us that you know what Christianity is all about.

And I like to see how you take special offense at someone who knows the scriptures and can quote them to you. I'm apparently brainwashed according to you. Memo: you can know someone is brainwashed only by knowing their life history and/or witnessing their way of arguing. The fact that their beliefs are rigid and even socially-unacceptable doesn't mean they are brainwashed. I don't just spit out answers with no backing, I always try to back everything up with Bible quotes. That's hardly brainwashing, it's called being a well-informed Christian.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:11 PM   #75
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Default Re: "Misogynistic" passages in the Bible

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
dude, stop. seriously... just stop

you know, i always kind of despised some of those intolerant atheists in the USA for being such idiots towards Christians. however, if there are several like you in the USA, i can fully understand them
So I need to stop saying this even while she rips Deuteronomy 22 out of every Bible she can find (especially ones that don't belong to her) and sets fire to the pages?
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Nole fan: "...most Fedtards seem to be very rabid and rude." (I agree 100%)

You can bet Djokovic's mom just screamed "Another king is dead" right about now - in the remotest corner - of her bathroom - followed by "The other one is buried." (from tennisplanet.me, following Madrid 2011 Djokovic d. Nadal 7-5 6-4)
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