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Old 10-27-2011, 12:40 AM   #31
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

I never said that Murray has the best forehand. You are the one who claimed that Djokovic is a far better returner than
Murray which is a ludicrous suggestion.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:43 AM   #32
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

Spindoctor What would a Nadull fan know about returning?
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:44 AM   #33
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

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Originally Posted by Roadmap View Post
Spindoctor What would a Nadull fan know about returning?
About as much as Mugray fan would know about winning slams.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:44 AM   #34
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

Murray is a terrific returner and only haters would say otherwise.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:44 AM   #35
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

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Originally Posted by Roadmap View Post
I never said that Murray has the best forehand. You are the one who claimed that Djokovic is a far better returner than
Murray which is a ludicrous suggestion.
never said far better ...just better ....like every non British fan and every expert says....how many set's has Novak won this year 6-0 6-1 and how many Murray?next thing you will say is that Andy is a better player
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:45 AM   #36
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

Spindoctor confirming he is a glory hunter.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:47 AM   #37
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

Murray could show himself to be a better player. We will not know until the end of their careers.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:47 AM   #38
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
Mugray struggled to return Isner's serve on slow(ish) court of USO, he was struggling to break him and spent like 4 hours outlasting him physically because he couldn't do shit against his serve. Mugray is an overrated returner, sure he can return Nadal's serve like nothing (who can't), but the real test is against a BIG server and that is where Djoker is better.
it certainly wasn't the return that was the problem in that match it was the fact Isner was playing brilliant from the baseline in sets three and four and outhitting Murray, but cause he's an 'all serve clown' you won't admit that.

BTW Djoker needed 5 sets to beat him on an indoor clay court in Davis Cup.

Murray's eaten Karlovic's serve up on a few occasions, whereas Djokovic hasn't. He hasn't faced any big servers this year and his return stats are skewed by facing clown serves like Nadal's.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:49 AM   #39
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

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Spindoctor confirming he is a glory hunter.
Not really, I would not be still supporting Nadal had I been a glory hunter like some posters here who jumped ship (Federer's_Mater, Sokk, Careergranslam etc) - I am just pointing out, that you shouldn't be such a vicious Mugraytard when your boy can't even win a set in a slam final despite his returning prowess
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:54 AM   #40
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

Murray is not exactly the mentally strongest player in the history of the sport but has fine talent.
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:57 AM   #41
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

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Murray is not exactly the mentally strongest player in the history of the sport but has fine talent.
that is true what you said ...you see...you can make sense...
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Old 10-27-2011, 12:59 AM   #42
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

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it certainly wasn't the return that was the problem in that match it was the fact Isner was playing brilliant from the baseline in sets three and four and outhitting Murray, but cause he's an 'all serve clown' you won't admit that.

BTW Djoker needed 5 sets to beat him on an indoor clay court in Davis Cup.

Murray's eaten Karlovic's serve up on a few occasions, whereas Djokovic hasn't. He hasn't faced any big servers this year and his return stats are skewed by facing clown serves like Nadal's.
Djokovic broke Tsonga at will sometimes at Wimbledon 2 days after your GOAT had only 1 break point
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:00 AM   #43
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

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Murray is not exactly the mentally strongest player in the history of the sport but has fine talent.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess. Having talent does not make you a slam winner and many clowns like Mugcelo Rios proved it in the past
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:10 AM   #44
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post

Murray's eaten Karlovic's serve up on a few occasions, whereas Djokovic hasn't. He hasn't faced any big servers this year and his return stats are skewed by facing clown serves like Nadal's.
interesting point...

nadal has been violated so much by djokovic this year that nadal packs his own lube these days... nadal's poor serve has most definitely skewed the stats for 2011, nadal shouldn't be getting troubled as much on serve by djokovic than he is this year... nadal's drop in service form is the biggest loss of faith and/or ability in any single shot in a twelve month period that i have ever seen...

cheers clydey... one great thread in an ocean of shit...
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Old 10-27-2011, 01:28 AM   #45
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Default Re: The Relative Importance of Hold and Return Games

Its hard to pick between Murray and Djokovic returning wise. Its very close!

I think Djokovic returns first serves a bit better (like a percentage point) and Murray might deal with 2nd serves a bit better (like a percentage point). Novak's baseline is probably a bit better this year too, so the stats will be jilted. Anyway, I think Murray deals with spinny serves better than anyone i've ever seen, whereas Djokovic's general ability to peg even very hard serves deep at the servers feet is also revolutionary.

I have seen better return of first serves before (Hewitt, Fed in his prime, a few others) and I have seen better more aggressive 2nd serve returns (Nalbandian, Agassi etc) but yea overall its hard to argue that Murray and Djokovic are a cut above right now overall.
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