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Old 03-14-2011, 06:36 PM   #31
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

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Originally Posted by l_mac View Post
FiBeR is untouchable. Best not to get into it, Cabba.

Did Cabba's post get deleted already?
He most certainly is not. Don't you start.

He deleted it himself.
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:37 PM   #32
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

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He most certainly is not. Don't you start.
I'm not starting I only posted here to at Fed Mate's suggestion.
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:37 PM   #33
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

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Originally Posted by Word Life View Post
It is a good idea.
A part of the forum for all sorts of junk, insults, bitching etc. would make the rest of the forum better.
As Fed's Mate said, only porn and wishing death shouldn't be tolerated, racism also.
It wouldn't make the rest of the forum better in the least - it would just mean that people behaving in there would then take that behaviour out to the rest of the forum cos it's "allowed" in one part of the site.
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:39 PM   #34
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

Would be nice if we used the forum just to enjoy tennis and not to delete posts and tons of rules Some of us here come to talk about tennis and not to clown around, I guess some people just dont give a fuck about the sport so they annoy.
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Old 03-14-2011, 06:42 PM   #35
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

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Originally Posted by ExcaliburII View Post
Would be nice if we used the forum just to enjoy tennis and not to delete posts and tons of rules Some of us here come to talk about tennis and not to clown around, I guess some people just dont give a fuck about the sport so they annoy.
Except you don't - it all sounds wonderful in theory but people don't respect the opinions of others and say so in not nice terms and look where we are. Rules and moderation and arguments because people can't behave like adults and disagree with a bit of grace.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:28 PM   #36
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

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Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
I answered because you reminded me that I had a PM I hadn't responded to, had you reminded me by PM I still would have answered.

I'm not sure what attitude you're referring to. I'm attempting to ascertain what legitimate grounds you have to say "Moderation in this forum is in a ghastly shape and we have no-one to help".

If i'm short with people while doing this it's because the attitude I constantly encounter is the opposite of respect. I and my fellow mods are trying to do a job here in my spare time that is not easy - there are many conflicting demands to it - and we get constant hassle for doing so from people who have no interest in trying to appreciate these conflicts and demands. I'm not telling you that because I want a burst of sympathy - I don't - but why you expect me to be all sweetness and light when people come at me with such an attitude is a mystery.

We don't do random displays of power - we try to apply the rules as consistently as we can, we don't always get it right, but just because you don't know why something was done, doesn't mean it was done for no reason other than to flex our moderation muscles, nor is it done to try and engender "fear" - God, it's a tennis website, not Big Brother. Posters are banned because they breach the rules and for no other reason. Posters are not banned because of public pressure - if anything we're accused far more of not acting when various people demand it, much more than the converse.

If you have desperate urge to complain to those further up than the admins I will investigate your options for you, but if you plan to do that I'd advise you to have pretty concrete evidence of your complaints and how the moderators are not dealing with them - with reference to the site rules - ready to lay before them.
I'm not accusing you of anything, Chris.

I have never lacked respect when addressing you, have I? All my demands are polite and respectful. My last post followed these same principles.

Also if any of the mods think they can't cope with the job, they can always quit.

I'm not exactly talking about banning, but about my thread. A thread that existed since 2007 and was deleted ONLY because Nadull's fans, who lack any sense of humour whatsoever, complained. This sets up a precedent where any thread can be deleted as long as there's enough fanboys to complain about it. Is that really where this forum's going to?

Now I don't, but the whole situation that led to my banning last year was pathetic. First I was banned by a mod that had a personal and totally unfounded grievance against me (leading even to libelous remarks elsewhere -remarks that, were they made to my face, would lead to a legal proceeding). Then I contacted other mods and truebluefan, who was the person I was supposed to refer to, and I never received any answer. Then I was finally banned for a year just for speaking the truth. I get it, we live in society and yada yada yada, we're not supposed to tell people the truth but the fact that people are banned just because of scenes sets up another dangerous precedent. If someone tells me "you have brown hair" I can say that made me cry and that I have always wanted to be blond and that it's a sensitive subject to me just to get someone banned. Are we really going that way?

Then anyone that gets banned is treated, upon his return, still as a "criminal". We've served our time, we shouldn't be treated any differently when we get back. We don't need double punishment.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:36 PM   #37
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
All my demands are polite and respectful.


Quote:
I'm not exactly talking about banning, but about my thread. A thread that existed since 2007 and was deleted ONLY because Nadull's fans, who lack any sense of humour whatsoever, complained. This sets up a precedent where any thread can be deleted as long as there's enough fanboys to complain about it. Is that really where this forum's going to?
Yeah scoobs, couldn't you just have banned sokk etc? Even mimi realised that thread was tongue in cheek. We can do without humourless posters. The majority of posters can "cope" with threads like GlennM's, and the Haha, GOAT cheese etc, Ego Has Landed and so on. In fact such threads have, in the past, led to better relationships between posters, and less aggro on the more serious discussion threads. IMO, it would be far better for the forum to get rid of the posters who are doing ridiculously OTT complaining about threads that just aren't that bad. There aren't really that many of them.

Some people shouldn't post on forums where posters are allowed to have opposing views.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:48 PM   #38
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

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Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
I'm not accusing you of anything, Chris.

I have never lacked respect when addressing you, have I? All my demands are polite and respectful. My last post followed these same principles.

Also if any of the mods think they can't cope with the job, they can always quit.

I'm not exactly talking about banning, but about my thread. A thread that existed since 2007 and was deleted ONLY because Nadull's fans, who lack any sense of humour whatsoever, complained. This sets up a precedent where any thread can be deleted as long as there's enough fanboys to complain about it. Is that really where this forum's going to?

Now I don't, but the whole situation that led to my banning last year was pathetic. First I was banned by a mod that had a personal and totally unfounded grievance against me (leading even to libelous remarks elsewhere -remarks that, were they made to my face, would lead to a legal proceeding). Then I contacted other mods and truebluefan, who was the person I was supposed to refer to, and I never received any answer. Then I was finally banned for a year just for speaking the truth. I get it, we live in society and yada yada yada, we're not supposed to tell people the truth but the fact that people are banned just because of scenes sets up another dangerous precedent. If someone tells me "you have brown hair" I can say that made me cry and that I have always wanted to be blond and that it's a sensitive subject to me just to get someone banned. Are we really going that way?

Then anyone that gets banned is treated, upon his return, still as a "criminal". We've served our time, we shouldn't be treated any differently when we get back. We don't need double punishment.

Yes, for the most part you are fine with me, and so far as I know, the other mods too. In general though, the tone towards me and other mods is adversarial and aggressive and that's not likely to generate a warm and fuzzy response, not from me, anyway.

Humour - you know what, I would love it if we could have a bit of humour around here, in GM, but the reality is, there are too many fans who can't separate out fun-poking in good spirits from some sort of personal attack. We saw that with the Djokovic roast thread, we saw it again with the resurrection of the Nadal is God thread. One reason that was left around as long as it was when it was bumped was to see how it would go - to see if the response to it showed that people were ready to loosen up a bit - but no - the response was far worse than even the Djokovic thread got, so it was canned. It causes too much trouble, apparently, sad, but there it is. We have the users we have.

The whole situation with your ban last year is nothing I had, or have, anything to do with - I wasn't a mod and I have only heard bits and pieces of the story second hand, so I don't have any comment on that. But evidently the mods at the time felt there was a clear case to answer and I suspect your "telling the truth" is a euphemism for something rather less nice-sounding.

Finally, the question of "being treated like a criminal" - well that all sounds very dramatic and persecuted - we've served our time, let us be free, etc. Trouble is, you serve a ban and then you're let back on a final warning and told to behave - that's not double punishment - it's just saying, your past history is not forgotten - when you break rules, past history is taken into account and eventually past history will lead to permanent bans if rules continue to be broken. This is why bans, etc, increase in length with each successive occurrence. If we just wiped the slate clean and pretended that the history didn't happen, we'd never get rid of any troublemakers unless we just arbitrarily decide to permanently ban them, and we don't want to do that - we have a clear progression of how bans are handed out and how they escalate, so that these things are handled consistently. All it means is, you're out of chances now. If you steer clear of trouble, the infractions eventually expire and then you "regain" chances, if you like - you get more chances to break rules without the permanent ban being the automatic outcome. You're not treated any differently, except that other posters may have second chances and you don't, but then these other posters haven't been in quite so much trouble.
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:58 PM   #39
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

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Originally Posted by l_mac View Post




Yeah scoobs, couldn't you just have banned sokk etc? Even mimi realised that thread was tongue in cheek. We can do without humourless posters. The majority of posters can "cope" with threads like GlennM's, and the Haha, GOAT cheese etc, Ego Has Landed and so on. In fact such threads have, in the past, led to better relationships between posters, and less aggro on the more serious discussion threads. IMO, it would be far better for the forum to get rid of the posters who are doing ridiculously OTT complaining about threads that just aren't that bad. There aren't really that many of them.

Some people shouldn't post on forums where posters are allowed to have opposing views.
What - just ban them? They're complaining about a thread they don't like, cos they think it's disrespectful, so we just decide to ban them?

Sounds pretty arbitrary to me, not to mention heavy handed.
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:09 PM   #40
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

GlennMirnyi is right
What would happen is some posters start to complain about Nadal being called Nadull or Federer being called Fedclown? Those nicknames won't be allowed? And so on

Or if a thread about "Is player X declining / finished" is declared offensive by a fanbase? Tread deleted too?
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:10 PM   #41
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

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Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
What - just ban them? They're complaining about a thread they don't like, cos they think it's disrespectful, so we just decide to ban them?

Sounds pretty arbitrary to me, not to mention heavy handed.
Exactly! I thought it would be right up your street.

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Old 03-14-2011, 08:18 PM   #42
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

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Exactly! I thought it would be right up your street.

Right. Do you have anything useful to contribute to this?
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Old 03-14-2011, 08:43 PM   #43
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

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Right. Do you have anything useful to contribute to this?


Do I ever?

I know that without you mods we wouldn't have a forum, and I appreciate all the time you dedicate to the site. I still think you make the wrong decisions sometimes, for example the closing of the piggy roasting thread etc, and sometimes (as a team) you lack consistency. I'd like it if we had a permanent thread where you could explain why certain threads were closed (maybe like the banned posters) or had mass deletions.

I love you, scoobs
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:41 AM   #44
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

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Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
One reason that was left around as long as it was when it was bumped was to see how it would go - to see if the response to it showed that people were ready to loosen up a bit - but no - the response was far worse than even the Djokovic thread got, so it was canned. It causes too much trouble, apparently, sad, but there it is. We have the users we have.
we have always been reminded that this is not a democracy and that the rules of the site applied by mods' judgment is the arbitrator on this site, then why do you delete threads based on how a minority of fans react to it, bearing in mind that this happens many years after it was accepted by moderators as a valid thread?

in this case you now have posters who are offended by the fact that you have deleted a funny and light-hearted thread, why do you listen to the pleas of one side and completely ignore the other?

and finally, which rule are you following exactly when you delete a thread like this? and if such a rule exists, what is the set number of complaints needed to delete a thread? we need this rule cleared out so users can start lobbying against threads that we think should rightly be deleted.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:50 AM   #45
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Default Re: Severe Censorship

The Nadal vs God thread got deleted? That's almost as funny as the thread itself.
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