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View Poll Results: How will it look?

Nadal more than 15 matches ahead. 103 39.31%
Nadal 13-14 matches ahead. 25 9.54%
Nadal 11-12 matches ahead. 19 7.25%
Nadal 9-10 matches ahead. 20 7.63%
Nadal 7-8 matches ahead. 20 7.63%
Nadal 5-6 matches ahead. 18 6.87%
Nadal 3-4 matches ahead. 5 1.91%
Nadal 1-2 matches ahead. 1 0.38%
Equal 4 1.53%
Federer ahead 47 17.94%
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-29-2010, 04:27 PM   #91
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Default Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Originally Posted by Macbrother View Post
Even were you to ask such a question in that manner to Borg, I'm still fairly certain he would rather win Wimbledon -- that was his dream coming up and the biggest tournament of the year for him. My point was, this fascination with winning on three surfaces is largely fan-driven, not player. Yes, once you're career is over it's nice to have a career slam and show that you have variety in your game -- however I don't know of any player that sets this as a goal, certainly not to do it within one year. Players want to be number 1, and win slams. Everything else is icing.
I will add one more thought after all, because I like what you said about players playing for titles and not surfaces.

BTW, I have no objection to continuing a friendly debate as long as a new point can be made. What I try to avoid is endless loops where two people are just repeating themselves constantly. FWIW, even if I don't completely agree on all your points, I fully understand your point of view. Even the points I might take issue with, I have no interest in changing your mind, so sometimes I just run out of things to say.

Back to my new comment...

I agree that players care about titles much more than surfaces. I think players want to be the FO champion, the Wimbledon champion, the AO champion, etc. Those events have traditions that matter to the players, although different players will certainly have their particular favorites.

However, you can't win Wimbledon without playing on grass. You can't win the French without playing on clay. You can't win the USO or AO without playing on hard court, at least not in quite a few years. The desire to hold those trophies is what makes the surface relevant, and it's the added difficulty of varying surfaces that makes some people take notice when a player can master them all. After all, not every great player was able to do that. We can make excuses all day long for why a certain player didn't, but I think it makes more sense to just celebrate those that did.

I asked myself to re-evaluate Nadal 2010 vs Fed 2006, and pretend all the surfaces were identical. I would still pick Nadal's year, but only because the AO probably has the least importance to me personally, of the 4 slams. If my least favorite was the FO, I would pick Fed's year instead. If I valued the YEC more than I do, I would pick Fed's year. If I valued win pct more than I do, I would pick Fed's year. There is simply no right or wrong answer as far as I'm concerned. I don't believe I have the right to tell anyone what they should value. We're all free to make those choices for ourselves. I just try to explain how I arrived at my choice, for anyone that may be interested.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:01 AM   #92
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Default Will Federer end his career as Nadal's pigeon ?

I mean, the MTF meaning of pigeon...

Now Fed is 8-14...

Will he be able to depigeonize himself or the 2025 MTF history books will always have an asterisk on the bottom of the GOAT's history page? (smth. like: he used to be a pigeon of his main rival...)

I reckon that the final h2h will be smth like 18-10....

Pls. vote and discuss.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:07 AM   #93
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Default Re: Will Federer end his career as Nadal's pigeon ?

that will depend on how many more HC meetings they have.
if Nadal keeps losing to mugs on HC while Fed gets in2 latter stages of clay events then yes, Fed will be Rafa's pigeon.
if they meet more often on HC, we all know who will win and Fed depigeonizes himself.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:12 AM   #94
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Default Re: Will Federer end his career as Nadal's pigeon ?

Probably, but that is irrelevant.

Unless you can argue why losses to a top 2 player are more damaging to a player's legacy than losses to lower ranked players.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:17 AM   #95
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Default Re: Will Federer end his career as Nadal's pigeon ?

yeah i always wonder why people dont talk abt Fed's 2 losses to Gilles Simug
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:09 AM   #96
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Question Implications of Federer vs Rafa 2011 AO, what does it mean for the winner?

If Federer meets Rafa at the 2011 AO Final, what would it mean for the winner?

I guess if Federer beats Rafa it confirms he's better on hardcourt in the head2head as it ties the hardcourt slam head2head at 1-1 and leaves it to the non-slam results to decide, and those results favor Federer. It would also make Rafa's 2009 AO win look like an aberration blamed on a temporary slump by Federer.

If Rafa beats Federer then it gives Rafa a 2-0 lead in the hardcourt slam head2head, and while some may say Federer is past his prime it won't look that way in history because Federer won 2 slams in 2009 and a slam in 2010 and the WTF which doesn't make him look like a 'has been', especially when Federer continues to beat Murray and Djokovic more times than he loses.

So if they meet in the 2011 AO there is one scenario which is very simple and consistent which is Federer winning, and the other result would be very confusing for anyone looking at their head2head. That confusing scenario would either suggest that Rafa is beginning to raise his hardcourt game and be on the cusp of hardcourt domination (having won 2 consecutive hardcourt slams, and going deeper into the WTF than ever) or it could be accounted for by simply saying that Federer is a mental midget vs Rafa in slam Finals (as he wouldn't have beaten Rafa since 2007 Wimbledon).
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:20 AM   #97
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Default Re: Implications of Federer vs Rafa 2011 AO, what does it mean for the winner?

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Originally Posted by nadal_slam_king View Post
If Federer meets Rafa at the 2011 AO Final, what would it mean for the winner?

I guess if Federer beats Rafa it confirms he's better on hardcourt in the head2head as it ties the hardcourt slam head2head at 1-1 and leaves it to the non-slam results to decide, and those results favor Federer. It would also make Rafa's 2009 AO win look like an aberration blamed on a temporary slump by Federer.

If Rafa beats Federer then it gives Rafa a 2-0 lead in the hardcourt slam head2head, and while some may say Federer is past his prime it won't look that way in history because Federer won 2 slams in 2009 and a slam in 2010 and the WTF which doesn't make him look like a 'has been', especially when Federer continues to beat Murray and Djokovic more times than he loses.

So if they meet in the 2011 AO there is one scenario which is very simple and consistent which is Federer winning, and the other result would be very confusing for anyone looking at their head2head. That confusing scenario would either suggest that Rafa is beginning to raise his hardcourt game and be on the cusp of hardcourt domination (having won 2 consecutive hardcourt slams, and going deeper into the WTF than ever) or it could be accounted for by simply saying that Federer is a mental midget vs Rafa in slam Finals (as he wouldn't have beaten Rafa since 2007 Wimbledon).
And what do you think it will say if Nadal fails to make it to the Finals and Federer does? No deep thoughts on that scenario?
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:28 AM   #98
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Default Re: Implications of Federer vs Rafa 2011 AO, what does it mean for the winner?

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Originally Posted by barbadosan View Post
And what do you think it will say if Nadal fails to make it to the Finals and Federer does? No deep thoughts on that scenario?
That would indicate that Rafa isn't beginning to dominate on hardcourts. It'd be very different to winning 2 hardcourt slams in a row.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:39 AM   #99
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Default Re: Implications of Federer vs Rafa 2011 AO, what does it mean for the winner?

In Rafa's case,it means a lot more then basic and endless battle against Federer and legacy their two created. Since Rod Laver no one ever hold all 4 Slams at the same time and with eventual title Rafa can still chase Borg's amazing run at Slams until the US Open at the age of 25 (they were born almost the same date)

But,if this two are goin' to meat in that final,Rafa will left all this behind and just try to do his best.. we all know how it looks in the end at Slams finals since that bloody Wimbledon 2007.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:42 AM   #100
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Default Re: Will Federer end his career as Nadal's pigeon ?

Without any doubt.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:45 AM   #101
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Default Re: Will Federer end his career as Nadal's pigeon ?

I'm pretty sure Federer breaks the 10 wins barrier over Nadal in upcoming season. But yes, this rivalry will probably end something like 16-11, 17-10 for Nadull.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:46 AM   #102
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Default Re: Will Federer end his career as Nadal's pigeon ?

Only chance of avoiding that is if Fed starts shamelessly tanking clay events and prays for 10+ more HC meetings. Neither is particularly likely.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:55 AM   #103
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Default Re: Implications of Federer vs Rafa 2011 AO, what does it mean for the winner?

If neither of them reach the final, they are both clowns and should retire.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:58 AM   #104
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Default Re: Implications of Federer vs Rafa 2011 AO, what does it mean for the winner?

It means the end of MTF.
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Old 12-04-2010, 12:07 PM   #105
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Default Re: Will Federer end his career as Nadal's pigeon ?

Ya may be
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