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Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada IC report published)

587K views 5K replies 580 participants last post by  Chris Kuerten 
#1 · (Edited)
A Short History of Drugs in Tennis
by Michael Mewshaw

The bizarre saga of Richard Gasquet and his conviction for cocaine use grows, as they say in Alice in Wonderland, “curious and curiouser.” To outline the zigzag course of events for those trying to unpack this peculiar story — the Frenchman tested positive in March ‘09 at the Sony Ericsson Open in Miami. His immediate reaction was utter disbelief. He swore he had never done drugs and added that he knew nobody on the circuit who did coke.
By the time of Roland Garros in late May, Gasquet started amplifying his denial and announced that he intended to appeal the case and overturn his two-year suspension. In an interview with L’Equipe, he admitted that he had violated his normally monastic training routine and gone clubbing in Miami. But he said he had had just a couple of drinks and he suspected somebody must have spiked them. Why? He couldn’t say. Who? He couldn’t guess.

Rafael Nadal rushed to Gasquet’s defense and suggested that his French friend may have kissed a cocaine user. As an excuse, that ranks up there with “the dog ate my homework” or the Twinkie Defense in Harvey Milk’s murder. It led joking reporters to observe that perhaps Gasquet had kissed Martina Hingis, who tested positive for cocaine and retired rather than fight a two-year suspension. But Gasquet refused to go away quietly like the demure Swiss. He vowed to keep battling and by Wimbledon he had discarded the spiked-drink defense and fastened on the cocaine kiss defense. Suddenly he remembered snogging a French girl, Pamela (no last name). Indeed, he kissed her more than once, he maintained. Though never identified, Pamela was said to be a cocaine user by some sources — and a good girl by others. Tennis fans held their breath, waiting for a decision on Gasquet’s appeal.

With all due respect to a player’s right to plead his case, there is for anyone who has followed tennis on a regular basis something wearyingly familiar about this scenario — a positive drug test followed by denials, impassioned appeals to the court of public opinion, as well as to the authorities, and an ever-changing defense. To escape the fog and put things in perspective, let us reflect on a Short History of Drugs in Tennis.

Stimulants have long been popular on the tour. The celebrated diva Suzanne Lenglen braced herself between sets with sips of cognac. Eventually, alcohol in industrial quantities became the drug of choice on the circuit, and hangovers, not overdoses, were the greatest danger. As described in The Romance of Wimbledon, a book by John Olliff, The Daily Telegraph’s tennis correspondent, the ‘21 quarterfinal between Zenzo Shimidzu of Japan and Randolf Lycett of Australia was a drunken fiasco. Played on a blisteringly hot day, the match was deadlocked at a set apiece and 3-3 in the third, when Lycett seemed to suffer sunstroke and had to be revived with gin. Though wobbly, Lycett won the third set, but couldn’t continue without another stimulant — champagne. Apparently, he drank a whole bottle and by the fifth set was staggering and stumbling, falling and crawling around on his hands and knees, searching for his racket. While it’s not surprising that Lycett lost, it may shock some fans to learn that the Aussie wasn’t the last player to quaff champagne on Centre Court. That dubious honor belongs to Jimmy Connors and Ilie Nastase, who split a bottle during a doubles match in the mid-’70s and were seen as jolly good fellows for doing so.

Inevitably, players branched out to other chemically-charged substances. But since there were no tests, users stood little chance of getting caught, and since omertà operated then just as it does now on the circuit, nobody did much more than gossip about the subject. Journalists who witnessed players doing cocaine, for instance, didn’t feel compelled to report it. My friend, Gene Scott, the late publisher of Tennis Week, always defended this practice, explaining that what a journalist saw in a social setting should remain off limits. By that logic, unless a reporter spotted someone snorting lines at a tournament, he should keep his mouth shut.

But then in September ‘80, Yannick Noah broke the silence in an interview with Rock & Folk, the French equivalent of Rolling Stone. While admitting that he smoked hashish, Noah accused other players of using cocaine. What’s more — and in his opinion what was worse — some were popping amphetamines. This infuriated him because it put clean players at a disadvantage. He lamented that they might have to use coke or amphetamines to stay competitive with drug abusers. He wanted the problem to be brought into the open and discussed. If it weren’t, Noah feared there would be deaths from overdoses.
The reaction of tennis authorities and the press was to savage Noah for smoking hashish. His remarks about coke and speed were ignored, as were the players whom he said “take the hit during a tournament and crash afterward. You have guys who have played super during one tournament and who you’ve never seen again.”

He mentioned Victor Pecci by name.

A year later, Arthur Ashe proposed that tennis start testing for drugs. During the ‘82 U.S. Open, Ashe told me that the ATP had “established a relationship with this organization called Comp-Care. Comp-Care will, for free, help you deal with your drug problems anonymously.”

At Ashe’s encouragement, I called Comp-Care to arrange an interview and was referred to Dr. Robert B. Millman, Director of the Drug and Alcohol Abuse program at Cornell University Medical College. A psychiatrist and internist, Dr. Millman said he was treating a variety of professional athletes, including an unspecified number of tennis players. When I asked whether drugs were a problem on the circuit, he answered, “Absolutely.” The money and glamour of the game, he explained, brought players into frequent contact with show biz celebs who were heavy cocaine users. Many players succumbed to peer pressure or turned to drugs to reduce stress.

Dr. Millman said that a few players used heroin, snorting it, not shooting it. He wasn’t convinced that players confined cocaine to recreational use. Though he conceded he couldn’t prove it, he had heard of players taking cocaine for a lift during matches. But for someone who wanted to improve his game dramatically, amphetamines had quicker results. As Dr. Millman put it, “Speed makes you better.” But then, “It makes you worse.”

When I published this interview in my book Short Circuit in ‘83, tennis authorities responded with an across-the-board denial and a series of personal attacks. I was physically removed from the press box at the Italian Open, roughed up and threatened by a tournament director and IMG agent. Tennis authorities dismissed this as a personal matter and took no action.

It wasn’t until the mid-’80s that tennis accepted international standards for drug testing, including out-of-competition testing and sanctions for rule-breakers. But it was too late to deal with a cluster of juiced-up stars. In various books, player memoirs and investigative articles, it has been alleged that John McEnroe, Vitas Gerulaitas and Pat Cash, winners of a combined total of 20 Grand Slam titles, used cocaine in the ‘70s and early ‘80s. In the early ‘90s, Karel Novacek tested positive for cocaine.

Some apologists argue that cocaine is a recreational drug, not a performance enhancer. But it’s a stimulant, and that’s why tennis banned it. Other drugs — heroin, ecstasy and a host of other party pills — are not penalized. Unlike other pro sports, tennis seems to have no interest in cracking down on non-performance-enhancing substances, which are both dangerous and illegal. That is, dangerous not just because of potential side effects, but because they force buyers to associate with criminals, opening them up to blackmail. (Think of this in relation to last year’s scandal about betting and match-fixing on the tour.)
By the time the news about cocaine use in tennis broke, the game had more powerful performance enhancers to worry about. Anabolic steroids, human growth hormones, EPO and a witch’s brew of powerful elixirs hit the black market. Aussie Open champ Czech Petr Korda tested positive, as did a gaggle of other Europeans — Stefan Koubek, Karol Beck, Filippo Volandri — and Argentineans Juan Ignacio Chela, Guillermo Canas, Guillermo Coria and Mariano Puerta. The latter two made it to the French Open finals after serving suspensions for drug use. At Roland Garros in ‘05, Puerta had the dubious distinction of testing positive a second time and receiving a career-ending suspension.

As tennis continued to award itself a badge of merit for its drug program, Steffi Graf startled a French Open press conference in ‘94 by announcing that she had never been tested for drugs and that she suspected other women were bulking up on steroids. Subsequently, Gabriela Sabatini threatened legal action when her name kept cropping up in reports about steroid use.

Then in ‘96, Boris Becker speculated that the hyperactive Austrian Thomas Muster must be on something — and the good German got disciplined for his injudicious remarks. Sticking to its policy of punishing the messenger, tennis authorities also cracked down hard in ‘02 on Frenchman Nicholas Escude, who said, just as Noah had done 20 years earlier, that it was obvious when players were juiced. All you had to do was look at their bodies and their eyes. Moreover, Escude charged that some players had tested positive, but the ATP wasn’t revealing the results.

Dismissed at first as a pop-off with no basis for his accusations, Escude was vindicated when it was belatedly revealed that between August ‘02 and May ‘03 seven players had tested positive for nandrolone and 53 others had showed elevated traces for nandrolone or its precursors. Only one of these players was identified — Bodhan Ulirach of the Czech Republic — and he was suspended for two years.

But when a second player came before the tribunal, he argued that he had taken electrolyte replacement pills provided by ATP trainers. Submitting two dozen legal affidavits, the player contended that the electrolyte tablets must have been contaminated with nandrolone. The other players who had tested positive promptly adopted the same defense.

Normally, under the ATP’s policy of strict liability, a player is responsible for whatever is in his system. Even if he ingests a banned substance unknowingly, he is penalized — although the penalty may be reduced if there are extenuating circumstances. But in this instance, because the ATP might have supplied contaminated supplements, the burden of proof switched, and players maintained that it was up to the ATP to prove that the pills weren’t tainted.

The ATP had been offering these products at tournaments for over 20 years with no problems and no complaints. Even so, it analyzed 500 tablets that were believed to have been available at a tournament where positive or elevated tests had occurred. No contaminants were discovered. Then the ATP submitted the remaining jars in its possession for further analysis. Representative samples from these jars revealed no contamination. In short, there was never any scientific proof that the ATP electrolytes were contaminated and no evidence that the players in question had consumed them.

Yet under the legal principle of equitable estoppel, the ATP couldn’t enforce its anti-doping rules unless it was willing to undertake a ruinously expensive court action. As a consequence, Ulirach was retroactively pardoned, even though he had never previously cited electrolyte replacements as a factor in his positive test. The cases against the other six players were dropped.

By mid-May ‘03, the ATP had stopped distributing electrolyte replacements. News of this was widely disseminated in the press, and notices were posted in player locker rooms. More than two months later, however, Greg Rusedski tested positive. Invoking the same defense as previous players, he claimed that the ATP, not he, was responsible. Though there was still no proof that the electrolytes had been contaminated or that Rusedski had ever taken them, and no explanation of how Rusedski had been tainted by supplements that had already been removed from the locker room, the tribunal decreed that his case too deserved to be dismissed.
Dick Pound, head of the World Anti-Doping Agency, called the decision “preposterous…It defies imagination.”

David Howman, Director General of WADA, pointed out, “It’s unprecedented to have a series of positive results where the individuals have been exonerated and the sport has chosen to fall on its own sword…It undermines the whole principle of the anti-doping program.”

Even the ATP was stunned. David Higdon, then VP of Media Relations, said, “To be honest, we’re surprised…He tested positive and that’s an uncontroverted fact.”

In the first months of ‘04, 16 more players showed elevated test results for nandrolone, with the same analytic fingerprint as the previous positives and elevated negatives. According to the ATP, these players hailed from a dozen different countries, and their test results occurred at tournaments at different times in different parts of the world. Since there was no question now of contaminated ATP supplements, what explained these troubling elevated scores?

No explanation has ever been forthcoming. Except for Ulirach and Rusedski, none of the other players who tested positive for performance enhancers or showed trace amounts in their systems has ever been identified. The ATP has refused to say whether these players were required to have follow-up tests. Tennis fans have no way of knowing whether the six unnamed players won tournaments, perhaps even Grand Slam titles, during the time when they tested positive.

Lest I be accused of sexual discrimination by focusing entirely on men, I should mention that Sesil Karatantcheva tested positive for steroids in ‘06. Showing the same feistiness in court as she does on court, the 15-year-old from Kazakhstan came up with an excuse that more than matched any man’s for pure chutzpah. Where Gasquet demurely fell back on the coke kiss defense, Karatantcheva went all the way and admitted she had been pregnant when she tested positive. Before she could have an abortion, she suffered a miscarriage. This, she contended, must have sparked a riot of hormones that had been mistaken for steroids.
As much as the tribunal may have sympathized with her predicament, it ruled there was no scientific basis to her argument. Now having served a two-year suspension, Karatantcheva is back on the women’s tour, but has shown nowhere near the same level that she displayed before her suspension.

But Gasquet still takes the prize, hands down. Without interviewing Pamela and pinning down the facts of the case — Did she kiss Gasquet? Did she use cocaine? — an independent anti-doping tribunal decided in July ‘09 to reduce Gasquet’s suspension to two-and-a-half months. In effect, the penalty became the time he had already been off the tour.

The ITF has now appealed Gasquet’s successful appeal and asked the Court of Arbitration for Sport to re-impose the original two-year ban. What’s more, Pamela has announced that she intends to file a suit against Gasquet for slandering her reputation, violating her privacy and infuriating her boyfriend with false accusations.

Then just when it seemed that the history of drugs in tennis couldn’t get any weirder, Andre Agassi’s autobiography, Open, appeared, and in addition to revelations about this heavy drinking, it contained an extraordinary confession. Andre admits to using crystal meth, snorting it with a Vegas friend called Slim. What’s more, in ‘97, he tested positive at a tournament and was informed by the ATP that he faced public exposure and suspension. But in a series of flabbergasting moves that seem to foreshadow Gasquet’s case, Andre wrote a letter to the ATP claiming that he had mistakenly drunk one of Slim’s sodas that had been spiked with meth. The ATP accepted Agassi’s bogus plea of innocence, never asking for evidence nor apparently even questioning him or Slim. And of course the public was never told, adding credence to Escude’s accusation that players have tested positive and never been named, much less punished. This admission by Agassi raises a host of questions that his book doesn’t address. But just as clearly it raises serious questions once again about rule enforcement in tennis.

Mewshaw is the author of Short Circuit, as well as Ladies of the Court: Grace and Disgarce on the Women’s Tennis Tour

http://www.insidetennis.com/2009/10/short-history-drugs-tennis/

Pretty interesting stuff. The part about the nandrolone positives is quite damning. :eek: Was that a big deal in the early 00's or did it fly under the radar somehow? :scratch:

EDIT:

Drug testing facts:
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=10349355&postcount=14

Operacion Puerto, drug testing facts and quotes from players and officials:
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=10442306&postcount=26

Drug testing facts:
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=10444558&postcount=40

Armstrong's doping doc has tennis links!
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=168510&page=16
 
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#542 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

The worse part is that while in cycling, for example, if the 1st, 2nd, .... cyclist were doping you can give the title to the cyclist that came in first and didn't doped in tennis you can't do that.

If for example a player that doped won the semis, the player that lost could've gone to the final and we don't know what could've happened.

Just saw a video of nadal saying that it is impossible for the top players in tennis to be doping because they are rigorously tested and then I thought about what Roger said that they are testing less now than they were a couple years ago....
 
#543 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

The worse part is that while in cycling, for example, if the 1st, 2nd, .... cyclist were doping you can give the title to the cyclist that came in first and didn't doped in tennis you can't do that.

If for example a player that doped won the semis, the player that lost could've gone to the final and we don't know what could've happened.

Just saw a video of nadal saying that it is impossible for the top players in tennis to be doping because they are rigorously tested and then I thought about what Roger said that they are testing less now than they were a couple years ago....
Either he is incredibly stupid or he is doping. Don't see any other explaination for that statement.
 
#555 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

Nadal saying it is impossible to not be caught in tennis, while he knows it is possible to not be caught in sports like cycling where doping is a hot topic and testing is probably done a lot better and more...

Nadal is probably just trying to make tennis look good here.
 
#566 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

Nadal saying it is impossible to not be caught in tennis, while he knows it is possible to not be caught in sports like cycling where doping is a hot topic and testing is probably done a lot better and more...

Nadal is probably just trying to make tennis look good here.
Nadal's words were well-known but they were said months ago, it's not fair to compare these words with what some players said recently in the new context which has been created by Armstrong's case.

See Murray has changed a lot what he says since that story.

If you compared what Murray said months ago and what he said recently, you would say "what a hypocrite" for the first one, and would applaude the second one :lol:

Yes, I was shocked by what Nadal said months ago but it had to be put in the context of the hypocrisy of both tennis and Spain on that matter. Now he would probably say differently, at least I guess so. Anyway it would be interesting to see how much he has been shocked in his fundamental beliefs by the Armstrong's case (if he has indeed been shocked and enlightened, because Indurain and others, esp. Spanish cyclists, still pretended there was no evidence against Armstrong :rolleyes: )

PS : I was disappointed by Djokovic's recent answers (or lack of answer when he was questioned on that during the WTF) on that matter.
 
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#565 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

The only hope is if cycling scandal widens to spain and forces spanish federation and their judicial system to take on their chemical doctors, along with their athletes.

On the other hand, I think cycling bodies are relieved that Armstrong has been made as their ultimate sacrifical lamb, and feel that no more action is necessary.
 
#570 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

Another well-informed doping website:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20

There's many more cycling enthusiasts in the know about doping than their tennis counterparts. It's quite illuminating the amount of detail they manage to bring out, probably because there isn't the same separation between pro-cyclist and public as there is in tennis. Some of the posters are ex pro-cyclists themselves and witnessed the goings on first hand or from very close distance.
 
#571 · (Edited)
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

The Armstrong case has not changed Toni Nadal's opinion and speech :

I’m fine because Rafa is clean. If ATP thinks that is right to increase anti- doping controls, do what they think it’s better. It’s true that there was the case of Mariano Puerta, but since then no top tennis player has ever been convicted as a doper, I think that they are all clean. It’s hard to dope.”
http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Toni-Nadal-furious-with-ATP--Rafael-still-didnt-win-a-Master-of-the-end-of-year-because-of-them-articolo7169.html

EDIT : I changed the quotes from tennisworld a little bit, since Castafiore checked the original interview in Spanish and according to her, he didn't say "it's impossible to dope" ... and accordingly, he probably meant "since no top-player has ever been convicted as a doper" rather than "no top-player has ever doped"
 
#574 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

The Armstrong case has not changed Toni Nadal's opinion and speech :



http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Toni-Nadal-furious-with-ATP--Rafael-still-didnt-win-a-Master-of-the-end-of-year-because-of-them-articolo7169.html

EDIT : I changed the quotes from tennisworld a little bit, since Castafiore checked the original interview in Spanish and according to her, he didn't say "it's impossible to dope" ... and accordingly, he probably meant "since no top-player has ever been convicted as a doper" rather than "no top-player has ever doped"
It is interesting to note the complete contrast between Federer's answer and Toni Nadal's answer to the question of doping in tennis.
 
#573 · (Edited)
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

Since poor Uncle Toni finds the antidoping system so oppressive, I'll give him a little helping hand. Here's an ultra-complex methodology that will bypass the controls, and allow you to dope all year round:


Part 1: When doping, lie about your location to the whereabouts system.
Part 2: errm, that's it.



Seriously, that's all it takes for a doper to be 100% safe. You might get a missed test warning for your 1 out of competition test a year, but so what? You need 3 of them in 18 months to get banned, and that's unlikely.

If you are ultra unlucky and get 2 missed test warnings, just stop doping for a few months until the first expires. By a sheer coincidence, the two players I know to have racked up two missed test warnings both had _massive_ and extended drops in form after the 2nd.


It's a complete joke. A fig leaf designed to meet wada minimum standards, but never catch any cheat.
 
#576 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

Since poor Uncle Toni finds the antidoping system so oppressive, I'll give him a little helping hand. Here's an ultra-complex methodology that will bypass the controls, and allow you to dope all year round:


Part 1: When doping, lie about your location to the whereabouts system.
Part 2: errm, that's it.



Seriously, that's all it takes for a doper to be 100% safe. You might get a missed test warning for your 1 out of competition test a year, but so what? You need 3 of them in 18 months to get banned, and that's unlikely.

If you are ultra unlucky and get 2 missed test warnings, just stop doping for a few months until the first expires. By a sheer coincidence, the two players I know to have racked up two missed test warnings both had _massive_ and extended drops in form after the 2nd.


It's a complete joke. A fig leaf designed to meet wada minimum standards, but never catch any cheat.
I doubt you could conceive of a better system designed not to catch cheats while simultaneously fooling a gullible, largely fanboy public that you can. Unbelievable really.
 
#578 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

We are all laughing at the stupidity of the rules the ATP enforce to "fight" dopers, but it is actually making me really sad. I have no way of knowing if I am looking at great athletes or just pumped up drugmachines.

My wish is that they would completely revise this system and make sure it is all done by an external bureau, that does not benefit from covering things up.

Imagine if we found out that Federer was doped up for all those years, would we still think he was the GOAT? or if Nadal did, would Fedfans go in a frenzy, claiming that he spoiled his legacy? Or if Nole did, would Nadalfans go berserk saying his dope abuse ruined their heroes' shot at surpassing Federer?

The least they should do is put some effort into convincing the public that everything is being done to fight drug abuse. Right now the program is laughably pathetic and they are just giving it the silent treatment..
 
#579 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

The least they should do is put some effort into convincing the public that everything is being done to fight drug abuse. Right now the program is laughably pathetic and they are just giving it the silent treatment..
well most of the public doesn't know it, and they are regularly reassured by guys like Agassi (and many other old sportsmen who have become commentators like McEnroe, Noah isn't part of this tennis world : he's a professional singer now :lol: ) :

You referenced your own drug use in the book, and I wonder if you think tennis now does a good enough job in drug testing?

“I don’t know that you can ever do too much. You look toward the governing bodies to protect the integrity of the sport, and I believe the ATP and ITF have been ahead of the curve in setting the bar high. I had 20 urine, eight blood and three out-of-competition tests when I played. Now, it’s stricter. Players have to list their whereabouts. They know there’s a high priority on being clean, with WADA [World Anti-Doping Agency] in there for third-party oversight. I’m proud of where we are.”

What do you think would be the performance-enhancer of choice in tennis?

“The greatest asset you can have is rehabilitating, recovery. It’s not going to serve you well to be a body builder type. But the things that minimize the effects of work and injuries.”
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-tennis-andre-agassi-20121129,0,7186089.story
 
#592 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

About the freaks of nature thing... wasn't there a scientific study on Indurain, which found that he had an abnormally low pulse, and an abnormally high oxygen uptake (or whatever the correct term is?) So if that's true, then I guess Indurain was a "freak of nature."

I'm not saying I think he was clean, because I have no idea about that. But I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to compete against dopers and win, if your unusual physiology already gave you a large advantage over "normal" elite athletes.
 
#593 · (Edited)
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

About the freaks of nature thing... wasn't there a scientific study on Indurain, which found that he had an abnormally low pulse, and an abnormally high oxygen uptake (or whatever the correct term is?) So if that's true, then I guess Indurain was a "freak of nature."

I'm not saying I think he was clean, because I have no idea about that. But I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to compete against dopers and win, if your unusual physiology already gave you a large advantage over "normal" elite athletes.
in tennis there's the Borg's case especially, in cycling there were Merckx and Hinault.
But in cycling I don't think such a guy would still win against dopers if he didn't dope, in tennis I think it's "possible", which doesn't mean I fully believe it, it just means it's "possible" imo.
I think Indurain did dope, his performance in the mountain improved too dramatically at one moment imo.

For this case where a clean Nadal has been running down all the dopers I have to mention Armstrong again here. Did you also believe that there was a reasonable chance that Armstrong was freak of nature and clean before he was busted??
no I didn't, first because Armstrong was not very precocious like Borg or Nadal in tennis or like Merckx or Hinault in cycling, secondly there were quite early suspicious infos about him, thirdly the context in cycling was very worrying already before him.
 
#594 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html

Spain accused of a doping cover-up as doctor implicated in cycling's Operation Puerto scandal goes on trial

The Spanish government has been accused of suppressing evidence linking footballers and tennis stars to a notorious doctor who will go on trial in Madrid next week and has been described as a “one-man Wal-Mart” of doping...
 
#595 · (Edited)
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html

Spain accused of a doping cover-up as doctor implicated in cycling's Operation Puerto scandal goes on trial

The Spanish government has been accused of suppressing evidence linking footballers and tennis stars to a notorious doctor who will go on trial in Madrid next week and has been described as a “one-man Wal-Mart” of doping...
If only the truth came out. Dopers are cheaters and shouldn't be allowed to compete against hard-working athletes who follow the rules. I'm saying this as a general thought.
 
#604 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Operation-Puerto-scandal-goes-on-trial.html

Spain accused of a doping cover-up as doctor implicated in cycling's Operation Puerto scandal goes on trial

The Spanish government has been accused of suppressing evidence linking footballers and tennis stars to a notorious doctor who will go on trial in Madrid next week and has been described as a “one-man Wal-Mart” of doping...
Disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful. Every time I think about this it makes me cringe.

I'm not holding my breath though. Spain is dirty as and getting dirtier by the hour.
 
#620 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

It will be great when Spain finally has to give the 2010 World Cup to Holland :)
You think Spanish players have the monopoly on doping in football... everybody can dope as much as they want in football. You have to be very stupid to get caught, and even if you do get caught nobody minds and you get off (Guardiola anyone?).
 
#653 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

You think Spanish players have the monopoly on doping in football... everybody can dope as much as they want in football. You have to be very stupid to get caught, and even if you do get caught nobody minds and you get off (Guardiola anyone?).
The biggest money in football is in national leagues/UCL, not in international matches. So, if Spain has a doping problem, I'd suspect all La Liga players dopers, not only Spaniards. On the other hand, Spain must be the national team with most La Liga players.
 
#597 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

Remember this is the same Spain that sent able-bodied athletes to the Paralympics.

If a Grand Slam winner is doping, would his titles retroactively be rescinded?
I guess it would depend if they could prove they were using whatever it was during the time that they won them. Korda's wasn't rescinded.
 
#607 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

Its obvious what the government are doing. They are blatantly covering up the possible tennis/football scandals by passing the buck onto cycling. Total disgrace. The world needs to hear the truth.
 
#608 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

I don't have any doubts in my mind thy many top athletes in the world would sell their soul to the devil, not to mention doping. The one single thing that can prevent them from doping must be fear of getting caught. Also, many will take anything within the limits of the legal, so the healthy attitude is not to rely too much on their honesty and decency, no question about that.

So, the question is really all about the rules and transparency.

Personally I have zero tolerance for doping and dopers, putting aside all the moral issues, justice and fair play, to me it just ruins the pleasure of watching the game, I wouldn't be able to watch it anymore.
 
#609 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

Giving the title to finalist is not fair. What about the guys eliminated by doper on his way to final? How can we know that f.e. semifinalist from his side would not win in final? It would be pretty complicated unlike in cycling or athletics where they are all competing together so the second best clearly deserves it.
 
#610 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

Giving the title to finalist is not fair. What about the guys eliminated by doper on his way to final? How can we know that f.e. semifinalist from his side would not win in final? It would be pretty complicated unlike in cycling or athletics where they are all competing together so the second best clearly deserves it.
There is no way a title could be transferred to some other player imo. What happens is that the title is just erased, if I am not wrong it happened before, some top athletes Olympic gold medalists had their medals taken away, but I don't remember silver medalists taking the gold after that. I might be wrong though.
 
#614 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

I know it is not the most robust investigative terminology, but as Lance proved (and now many other publications/figures) no smoke without fire
 
#634 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

I know it is not the most robust investigative terminology, but as Lance proved (and now many other publications/figures) no smoke without fire
True.

Even when everyone was acknowledging the natural athleticism of Marion Jones, majority already believed that she was on juice, although she was never tested positive. She was only uncovered through jury trial.
 
#616 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

How can this go unnoticed? seriously..
 
#621 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/21139622

Just been posted

"But overall, I think we have a pretty clean sport. You know that Roger Federer or Rafael Nadal or any of those guys wouldn't do anything like what Lance Armstrong was doing."

wool over the eyes
 
#641 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/21139622

Just been posted

"But overall, I think we have a pretty clean sport. You know that Roger Federer or Rafael Nadal or any of those guys wouldn't do anything like what Lance Armstrong was doing."

wool over the eyes
It's been posted elsewhere on this forum the details of just why testing in tennis is far from stringent or frequent or effective.

So when assessing the likelihood of doping in the game, it's best to ignore soundbites from players and ex-players claiming tennis is clean because the testing is strict and there are hardly any tests found positive.
 
#642 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

does the atp keep the tennis players' frozen blood samples?
What, so they can do backdated testing ten years down the line? Don't think they do.

I read that on http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com.ar/. I can't find the exact page, but I think Richard Ings, Stuart Miller's predecessor, said so.
 
#623 ·
Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

ATP wont, if they do it'll be the ITF
 
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