Originally Posted by little_masha
I'm astonished to see just how easily people will start screaming crime against democracy/supression of the freedom of speach, etc. at just about anything happening in Russia!
And, no offense, it's most frequenly not even the people who are supposed to know about it better, i.e.the Russians, but all sort of far-away countries clearly politically antagonical to Russia.
I'm not necessarly a huge fan of Mr. Putin and I don't live in Russia (I live in Romania and trust me, the last thing we love these days in Romania is the mere thought of our "friendly neighbour from the East").
But I firmly belive that much of the non-sense that is pourred in the Western press, all this negative opinions to which (no offense, plese) people leaving far, far away from Russia seem o belive they are entitled to, is the result of nohing else but of a tenacious campaign targeted againts a political competitor.
I'm really curious how would you people govern a country as big as Russia, given all the problems within (economical, ethnical, etc.) other than with an iron fist?!
And let me tell you, as a practician of law, that [/b]what [/b]those silly chicks did WAS hoolliganismaccording to any common sense criminal law textbook.
Of course everybody now screams dictatorship, but fact is: it was hoolliganism., get over it!
Much more dangerous as it comes from people with a certain public exposure. And in a country with such big extremist issues!
So let them go to jail (the penalty seemed fairly balanced to me), that's what an ordinary Russian ciizen would do for a similar crime (again, it's a crime, regulated by a criminal law, no something invented to crush young revolutionary spirit), that's what they should do!
After all if all you are capable to imagine as a political protest is the ridiculosness they came up with, the rest of the world should probably pity other stuff then their young, silly, attention seeking asses.
As for Marat, why do people constantly take him for a naive who got cought in the spider web of a diabolical party seeking the fall of Russia and world domination?!
Would it be all that impossible to accept that maybe not only is he fully aware of what politics is about, but also that he agrees with his party's actions?!
That maybe he sees said actions as correct?!
Does that make him stupid? Or evil?
Apologies for the posting of the entire quote, Monkey, but I would like to address each of these accusatory charges individually.
Firstly, of course you are entitled to your opinion, little masha, and clearly you are applying a very different perspective to this, given the country you live in and it's recent history, to myself, having lived all my life in western democratic countries. I will qualify straight away - "democracy" is by no means a "perfect" political system, and neither is western law unimpeachable in some instances - but I think there are several major issues at stake here which speak precisely to the separation between the STATE, the CHURCH and the LAW - all of which should operate entirely independently and should, it seems to me, act as moderating forces upon each other - and THAT is the crux of the matter to my mind.
IN this case, religious outrage has walked hand in hand with political repression - 'hooliganism'on one side is legitimate political protest about a specific issue of the Patriarch as a representative of the CHURCH publicly supporting Putin's re-election and therefore clearly NOT beingindependent - on the other - all rather ironic,I would say, given the soviet repression of the Church wouldn't you think, and Putin's previous career in the KGB.... as for your supposition that it's only ignorant foreigners who are
"screaming crime against democracy/supression of the freedom of speach, etc. at just about anything happening in Russia!"
Tell that to the Russians arrested outside the court, and the thousands of opposition protesters who risk arrest and fines, as the Duma just passed the laws relating to 'unauthorised' protests - which can amount to many more times the average wage...or are THEY just imagining it all?
...oh no, wait - they are ALL AGENTS OF THE WEST, right - paid off by the americans to go to jail for making a political protest - whether or not you agree with their particular choice of action, THAT is not the argument here, is it? and frankly, to claim that it's all anti-Russian rhetoric created by the western press as an attack against Russia is both spurious and ridiculous - and THAT is precisely what I mean by "Us against THEM" - Putin has ALWAYS played that card - Russia is "different" and the west just don't "understand" - well, sorry, but THAT is bullshit - people are MUCH more connected these days, and rather than retreating back into your cold war cave, you would be better advised to wake up and smell the coffee - look at what has happened across the world's repressive regimes in the last two years....Putin,the church and a corrupt judiciary may send these three women to a labor camp in Siberia for two years (if they end up locking them away for that long)but the argument is FAR from over...they won't just 'disappear'...and it may be that Putin has misjudged the benefit of making an "example" out of them...lets see what happens when they get the case to the European Court of Human Rights - or is that just a load of western nonsense we should just "get over" ???
As for Marat's position on this - we don't KNOW whether he agrees or disagrees do we, because he has never commented on ANYTHING significant related to an issue of public concern such as this - you overstate your case by resorting to this kind of meaningless rhetoric - "a diabolical party seeking the fall of Russia and world domination?!" really???
It would not be "impossible" to "accept" that he agrees with what is being perpetrated by the power-brokers in the Kremlin - and I don't recall suggesting that that if he DID, that would make him either "stupid' or "evil" - just - in my opinion - "wrong".