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-   -   Meaning of the word " Choke " (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=59877)

RickDaStick 11-06-2005 06:11 PM

Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
For some reason people love using this word. Yea, there are times where a player chokes like when serving for the match in a big match and he hits 2 double faults and a couple of unforced errors. That is a choke without a question but when a player is serving for a match and the returner hits 4 winners most people here still called it a choke. That shouldnt be the case sometimes you have to be able to say the other guy is just too good today. If a player is favorite to win a tournament and he loses to some guy who plays the match of his life, well guess what MTF still says choke. Not true. I think many of you people need to learn what a choke is before you start saying every player who loses is a choker.

Action Jackson 11-06-2005 06:15 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
Yes, the term choker is totally misused in this forum.

Berdych beating Ljubo today would be considered an upset victory, but not a choke as Ljubo was never in front in the match or blew a multitude of match points.

To many a choke in this place is someone going down 0-15 in the first game of a match, they choked.

MariaV 11-06-2005 06:18 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
IL, don't take everything too seriously here.

Neely 11-06-2005 06:41 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
Completely agree with post #1 what IvanLjubicic says. Some people here go around and call choke almost every lost match. When somebody is leading 2-0 and loses the set it is called choke. Agassi def. Blake at USO 05 was mentioned multiple times in the "biggest choke of all time" thread when both guys played an outstanding match and the winner to unforced error ratio being 3:1. When Haas lost serve to Ginepri in the fifth set at USO 05 I had a little dispute with Deivid who called it a choke, there was nothing to choke for Haas and he lost to a better man who took the possibilities and who won his points in the fifth set and who went on to make the semis of a Slam. Lots of more examples and not everything is a choke, not every defeat of a favourite is a choke...

delsa 11-06-2005 07:38 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
I completely agree with the first post! :yeah:

Deivid23 11-06-2005 08:41 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neely
When Haas lost serve to Ginepri in the fifth set at USO 05 I had a little dispute with Deivid who called it a choke, there was nothing to choke for Haas and he lost to a better man who took the possibilities and who won his points in the fifth set and who went on to make the semis of a Slam. Lots of more examples and not everything is a choke, not every defeat of a favourite is a choke...

I know what choke is and Haas choked big time that day ;)

*Ljubica* 11-06-2005 08:48 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
I totally agree with Ivan's comments here - Ljubo didn't choke today - it was a great match - he fought well to come back from 0-2 sets down, and in the end Berdych strung together some great winning shots and he was just too good on the day. Good luck to him

Neely 11-06-2005 08:56 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deivid23
I know what choke is and Haas choked big time that day ;)

Peace to us! :cool:
I know I won't change my opinion about that and you won't change yours ;)

star 11-06-2005 08:59 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanLjubicic
For some reason people love using this word. Yea, there are times where a player chokes like when serving for the match in a big match and he hits 2 double faults and a couple of unforced errors. That is a choke without a question but when a player is serving for a match and the returner hits 4 winners most people here still called it a choke. That shouldnt be the case sometimes you have to be able to say the other guy is just too good today. If a player is favorite to win a tournament and he loses to some guy who plays the match of his life, well guess what MTF still says choke. Not true. I think many of you people need to learn what a choke is before you start saying every player who loses is a choker.

I couldn't agree more. To lose a match through choking, you have to be in a clear position to win and your own errors and poor play lead to the defeat. The classic and forever classic choke came when Novotna was serving to go up 5-1 in the second set during the Wimbledon final and lost the match when suddenly she couldn't get a serve over the net.

There are players, however, who just don't perform up to expectations when they play big matches. I don't know if you can put Ivan in this category, but to me this is different than a choke.

Also every player has "choked" on a point or two, but that is more just getting tight, and I don't think that counts as a "choke" either.

Deivid23 11-06-2005 09:02 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neely
Peace to us! :cool:
I know I won't change my opinion about that and you won't change yours ;)

Fair enough. But after reading the original thread I think youīre mistaken and you hav a wrong impression about me if you think I say he choked bc of any bet I had on him, just to clarify. Choking or not has nothing to do with having money or not on anyone, at least in my case, I know how to deal with my losses and how to learn from them ;)

Neely 11-06-2005 09:06 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
Of course I agree on that, Deivid. After making that clear, now lets be friends again :hug: ;)

adee-gee 11-06-2005 09:22 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
Can I point out Nadal vs Federer in Miami was also not a choke.

Deivid23 11-06-2005 09:25 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by adee-gee
Can I point out Nadal vs Federer in Miami was also not a choke.

I agree here, as itīs not being broken when being up a break, itīs the way you lose that advantage (by getting tight).

adee-gee 11-06-2005 09:40 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deivid23
I agree here, as itīs not being broken when being up a break, itīs the way you lose that advantage (by getting tight).

Also the fact is his serve was pretty weak at that point, and a break didn't mean a huge amount. Plus Federer upped his level in the middle of the 3rd set.

Deboogle!. 11-06-2005 09:48 PM

Re: Meaning of the word " Choke "
 
I agree. :)


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