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-   -   Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013 (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=214105)

Ad Wim 12-27-2012 11:00 AM

Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
No thread yet?

Very good, but very worrying article about the reduction of challengers for 2013.
Almost a quarter less in the first months of 2013 than in 2012. Very, very bad news...

http://heavytopspin.com/2012/12/26/a...g-challengers/

Wing Man Frank 12-27-2012 11:21 AM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
It is scandalous that tournaments have decreased without significant prize increases at those that do remain.

duong 12-27-2012 11:31 AM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
A very important topic indeed, and a good article indeed : although I don't think the 1/3 decrease of first 3 months will be the same in next months, it's clear that there has been a decreasing trend since 2008 which is very worrying.

A question I have : where are located the tournaments which disappear ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank (Post 12618928)
It is scandalous that tournaments have decreased without significant prize increases at those that do remain.

What's the relationship ? it's not the same tournaments then not the same money :shrug: Besides, it would be shared between less players.

Wing Man Frank 12-27-2012 11:39 AM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by duong (Post 12618932)

What's the relationship ? it's not the same tournaments then not the same money :shrug:

Simple. The ATP are supposedly in charge and they should start making much greater demands on the tournaments that continue exist. TV cameras at challenger events should be mandatory, no event should be less than $50k and many other things should be implemented.

The marketing opportunities that are currently being squandered would make anyone with a rudimentary understanding of marketing want to kill themselves. Tennis has fallen so far behind a sport like golf it is ridiculous.

Attitudes towards lower level tennis has to improve significantly.

Ad Wim 12-27-2012 11:44 AM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by duong (Post 12618932)
A very important topic indeed, and a good article indeed : although I don't think the 1/3 decrease of first 3 months will be the same in next months, it's clear that there has been a decreasing trend since 2008 which is very worrying.

True. The first months are always the months with few challengers, because of winter time in Europe and the US, the two biggest areas for challengers.
Come summer, there will be loads of challengers there, that probably won't be deleted this year.

But nevertheless, the trend is worrying. This way up and coming players have to rely more and more on wildcards, i.e. connections, i.e. money. And not pure talent alone. Sad.

duong 12-27-2012 11:46 AM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank (Post 12618940)
Simple. The ATP are supposedly in charge and they should start making much greater demands on the tournaments that continue exist. TV cameras at challenger events should be mandatory, no event should be less than $50k and many other things should be implemented.

The marketing opportunities that are currently being squandered would make anyone with a rudimentary understanding of marketing want to kill themselves. Tennis has fallen so far behind a sport like golf it is ridiculous.

I would be glad you to share your great marketing abilities with us, especially on this thread :

www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=212686

but from what I understand from your words, your priority would be rather that there is more money in each challenger rather than having more challengers ? because I really don't think that many challengers could afford your demands.

Tht's a possible choice but please say it clearly because the topic here is the number of challengers.

Litotes 12-27-2012 11:47 AM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by duong (Post 12618932)
A very important topic indeed, and a good article indeed : although I don't think the 1/3 decrease of first 3 months will be the same in next months, it's clear that there has been a decreasing trend since 2008 which is very worrying.

A question I have : where are located the tournaments which disappear ?

I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the number of challengers in Australia are plummeting, I guess this is much of the reason for the low 1st quarter figure, as this is main season for them.

Action Jackson 12-27-2012 11:49 AM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Litotes (Post 12618946)
I read somewhere (can't remember where) that the number of challengers in Australia are plummeting, I guess this is much of the reason for the low 1st quarter figure, as this is main season for them.

Australia doesn't have many challengers and hasn't for ages. They had 2 last year, this year and in 2013.

Wing Man Frank 12-27-2012 11:54 AM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by duong (Post 12618943)

but from what I understand from your words, you would like that there are fewer challenger tournaments but with more money in each of them ?

Please say it clearly because the topic here is the number of challengers.


That's not what I actually said. I like challengers. I wish there were more of them, but if the calendar is to decrease, then prize money has to increase. To be honest prize money needs to increase across the board.

I will look at that other thread later on when I have time.

Litotes 12-27-2012 11:54 AM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Action Jackson (Post 12618949)
Australia doesn't have many challengers and hasn't for ages. They had 2 last year, this year and in 2013.

OK, thanks, I guess it was a longer-term article.

duong 12-27-2012 12:02 PM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Yes, most challengers are located in Europe and southAmerica, a few ones in Asia as well. The article seems to express a peculiar concern about players in southAmerica, where I actually thought that the situation of challengers was better than in Europe, that's especially why I asked the question because I was surprised about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank (Post 12618959)
That's not what I actually said. I like challengers. I wish there were more of them, but if the calendar is to decrease, then prize money has to increase. To be honest prize money needs to increase across the board.

it would be great if people had great marketing ideas to develop the tennis economy, that's quite the topic of the other thread,

but here if many challengers disappear, it's clearly because of financial problems, because the tournaments don't get benefits comparing to their costs,

and when you say that all tournaments should have TV and give more prize money, clearly it would increase the tournaments' costs and make it even more difficult to even more challengers : if there are so many challengers offering 35K prize money rather than 50K it's surely because it would be tough for them to offer more :shrug:

Wing Man Frank 12-27-2012 12:25 PM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by duong (Post 12618970)
Yes, most challengers are located in Europe and southAmerica, a few ones in Asia as well. The article seems to express a peculiar concern about players in southAmerica, where I actually thought that the situation of challengers was better than in Europe, that's especially why I asked the question because I was surprised about that.

There are too many challengers in South America. You can near enough make a living without ever actually leaving the continent, it's stupid.

Quote:

it would be great if people had great marketing ideas to develop the tennis economy, that's quite the topic of the other thread,

but here if many challengers disappear, it's clearly because of financial problems, because the tournaments don't get benefits comparing to their costs,

and when you say that all tournaments should have TV and give more prize money, clearly it would increase the tournaments' costs and make it even more difficult to even more challengers : if there are so many challengers offering 35K prize money rather than 50K it's surely because it would be tough for them to offer more :shrug:
If you market a product properly sponsors follow. Sponsors bring in money that allows you to offer greater prize money.

The issue is so complex, that's the problem. You have a situation in which a nation as big as Australia offers just two challengers in an entire calendar - how is that right?

Challengers are the whole are a joke in that they seemingly serve no point other than to ensure a few hundred other players can survive. Nobody outside of the tennis world realises that they play an important part in the development of so many players and are a great way to see the future of tennis. Why don't they know that? Because the tournaments aren't shown on TV or online unless you use a betting site.

I don't blame the tournament organisers; I blame the egocentric maniacs in charge of the ATP who cannot see any other players bar Nadal or Federer.

I could go on and on, but it's so boring to discuss as the issues are so obvious.

duong 12-27-2012 12:32 PM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank (Post 12619002)
If you market a product properly sponsors follow. Sponsors bring in money that allows you to offer greater prize money.

The issue is so complex, that's the problem. You have a situation in which a nation as big as Australia offers just two challengers in an entire calendar - how is that right?

Challengers are the whole are a joke in that they seemingly serve no point other than to ensure a few hundred other players can survive. Nobody outside of the tennis world realises that they play an important part in the development of so many players and are a great way to see the future of tennis. Why don't they know that? Because the tournaments aren't shown on TV or online unless you use a betting site.

I don't blame the tournament organisers; I blame the egocentric maniacs in charge of the ATP who cannot see any other players bar Nadal or Federer.

I could go on and on, but it's so boring to discuss as the issues are so obvious.

it's not obvious to me at all, but it would be great if you could bring your marketting ideas in the other thread I mentioned where people already debated with similar ideas to yours.

Besides, Australia has a big territory (which is actually a problem for players of this country) but its population is half the one of South Korea and Spain, and one third less than Canada, for the GDP the situation is similar, it's not such a big country on the economic point of view.

Wing Man Frank 12-27-2012 12:34 PM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by duong (Post 12619013)
it's not obvious to me at all, but it would be great if you could bring your marketting ideas in the other thread I mentioned where people already debated with similar ideas to yours.

Besides, Australia has a big territory (which is actually a problem for players of this country) but its population is half the one of South Korea and one third less than Canada, it's not such a big country on the economic point of view.

As an economy it is hardly struggling!

You're an informed individual, for your average 35k challenger do you have any idea of the costs involved in staging it?

duong 12-27-2012 12:42 PM

Re: Worrying times: lots of challengers missing in 2013
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank (Post 12619016)
As an economy it is hardly struggling!

no but the situation is similar as for population and they have a similar number of challengers as South Korea and Canada :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._GDP_%28PPP%29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank (Post 12619016)
You're an informed individual, for your average 35k challenger do you have any idea of the costs involved in staging it?

I'm not that well informed, no, but if you can tell us, that would be great :D


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