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Stensland 04-23-2010 11:18 AM

Financial clusterfuck in Europe
 
okay, so according to the press the greeks are about to apply for imf/eu-money in the next few hours. i guess most of you have been following the story, for those who didn't, here's the short version:

the greek government has been spending pretty recklessly over the course of the last, say, decades. it was okay for them to do so because getting more and more credit used to be fairly cheap. the recession was hard on the people, it was harder on governments though, especially the ones with huge spending. due to the fact that the greek economy more and more relied on tourism (hit the most) and lacks any sort of major industries as of now, the credit default swaps went up since 2009. that means they will have to pay higher interest rates for the bonds they sell.

people were pretty sure greece wouldn't be able to cope with its financials unless external experts would take care of the mess. so brussels and washington came up with an umbrella if things were to get worse.

well, they did. as per usual, greek officials had been blatantly lying about the deficit(revised from 12,7% to ~14% in 09) - and the market place is having a field day. german bankers have warned merkel that greece is bound to end up like hypo real estate, a german banking conglomerate that swallowed billions and billions of cash just like a black hole due to its hidden accounts.

if the greeks were to default, it would have quite an impact on western europe as well: banks in france (~70 billion euros) or germany (~45) hold most of the greek debt - which is obviously why sarkozy was pushing a hellas-friendly agenda for some time now and keeps trying to get berlin to pay.

so here we are with greek basically bankrupt. the worst thing is that other countries are likely to follow: portugal's credit default swaps have been rising steadily, spain might be even worse, even france is getting some heat - and last but not least, the "last resort's", germany's, interest rates are higher than ever (still very low, but nonetheless).

do you believe we're gonna get out of this any time soon? will we see a major default in the euro-zone? and what about the u.s. or the uk?

Stensland 04-23-2010 11:26 AM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/52272434-4...44feab49a.html

Quote:

Greece seeks activation of EU/IMF aid

buddyholly 04-23-2010 01:17 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
Over here in North America we don't care about stupid Europeans and their failures.

Machiavelli 04-23-2010 01:19 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by buddyholly (Post 9841561)
Over here in North America we don't care about stupid Europeans and their failures.

We are lucky the smart americans and canadians are here to save the world if every european country ends up like Greece....

bokehlicious 04-23-2010 01:21 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by buddyholly (Post 9841561)
Over here in North America we don't care about stupid Europeans and their failures.

Quite normal since you guys had no clue there was an actual world beyond the US boarder. September 11 helped you figure it out for sure :o

Stensland 04-23-2010 02:05 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by buddyholly (Post 9841561)
Over here in North America we don't care about stupid Europeans and their failures.

i know this is meant to be ironic (to some extent), but since you bring up "north america" as a whole, check out california or illinois. those states aren't better off than greece, in fact, california seems to be in an even worse shape financially. after all, it's among the top ten states on the planet regarding the probability of a default, sitting among bankruptcy powerhouse argentina, the ukraine or iraq.

JolánGagó 04-23-2010 02:28 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
Who cares? let Germany pay, you've gained the most from that shit euro no one else needs, and you've bought most of the cheap summer houses too, after nearly obliterating Greece during 2WW.

So now shut up and pay out.

bokehlicious 04-23-2010 02:33 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
It was never in doubt that someday the richer countries would have to pay for the Euro beggars... :o

Kolya 04-23-2010 02:33 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by buddyholly (Post 9841561)
Over here in North America we don't care about stupid Europeans and their failures.

Thank you USA for the GFC.

Stensland 04-23-2010 02:44 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/20...nce-daily.html

Quote:

Greece Should Be Allowed to Go Bankrupt, Mark Mobius Tells Finance Daily
today credit default swaps are beginning to reach other club med countries: caixa general de depositos (por) is up 12% , banco de sabadell is up 9% and banco pastor (both esp) is up 7%. oh, and fortis (bel) jumps 11% within ~ an hour. conflagration here we come...

buddyholly 04-23-2010 03:31 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rrrainer (Post 9841677)
i know this is meant to be ironic (to some extent),

Well, I knew you would know. But it still generates funny replies from people like P. Antonius, who don't even recognise their own satirisation.

Next week I'm off to drive the West Coast from San Diego to Vancouver. I can report on the crisis first hand.

buddyholly 04-23-2010 03:32 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by P. Antonius (Post 9841581)
Quite normal since you guys had no clue there was an actual world beyond the US boarder. September 11 helped you figure it out for sure :o

I'm Irish. I'm a ''boarder'' in Canada. The US is not involved.

Dougie 04-23-2010 03:36 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by buddyholly (Post 9841561)
Over here in North America we don't care about stupid Europeans and their failures.

I think you should take a good look at your own region before talking about any other countrys economic failures.

buddyholly 04-23-2010 03:39 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kolya (Post 9841728)
Thank you USA for the GFC.

Why do they call it a GFC when Canada didn't take part?

Stensland 04-23-2010 03:57 PM

Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?
 
i don't get what GFC is supposed to mean. obviously it must be something ridiculously easy to get, so i feel kind of stupid.


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