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Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

4K views 67 replies 25 participants last post by  pray-for-palestine-and-israel 
#1 ·
That much seems rather obvious in foreign policy issues and also in some internal affairs. To the latter point, if he fails to get an agreement for the Fiscal Cliff, what would the yanks think of him?

No doubt the two main parties will put the blame on the other but, at the end, the president as the leader of the nation should be the one willing to make his voice heard and promote a deal for the country across all parties.
 
#2 ·
Obama is lacking in everything as far as I'm concerned! And you would be amazed at the number of politicians in the country that don't even care, if the country goes over the Fiscal Cliff. In fact, many have been quoted as saying they would be happy if that did happen!
 
#6 ·
interesting video about these drones but i'm not surprised. only idiots think that terrorism isn't directly linked and fueled by foreign intervetion and death (not to mention terror itself) into the nations of the so called terrorists.

on the other side of the road, there are the idiots who think obama is interested in peace. obama, like any true top democrat, is a sold out hawk at heart. that was evident to see since the times in which he was a senator. probably even earlier but i didn't bother to check.
 
#7 ·
I'm not sure why this "fiscal cliff" is so bad. The US has an enormous budget deficit. Even after the cliff they'd still be in deficit. Seems to me some real tightening would be a good idea. It's not going to get easier building budget surpluses later, seeing as the working age % of the population is decreasing steadily.

And the cliff might be the only way to get tax increases through, in light of the Republican hatred of all such increases, plus the only way to cut entitlements seeing as the Democrats hate such cuts with equal passion. Both things are undoubtedly necessary if the budget is ever going to get balanced. Which it will surely have to. You can only other people's money for so long before noone's willing to foot the bill anymore.

It will also be easier once they've gone over, because then they can discuss tax breaks and entitlement increases instead of the opposite.
 
#8 ·
That is exactly what those politicians I was talking about are saying! However, the real problem with the cliff is if something doesn't get decided soon who takes the big hit. The American "Middle Class" which has taken so many hits already it almost doesn't exist any more! The U.S. is becoming a country of rich people and poor people. When a country's "Middle Class" gets wiped out leaving only rich and poor is when class conflicts start to come into that country. We may have some time to go yet in the U.S. before that actually happens, but the clock is ticking on that also!
 
#14 ·
Regardless of what you think of Obama, he is what we got and we have to as a nation help and support him.. I mean would you rather want Romney who couldn't even win votes from his own state? Or maybe Bush right...? However, I wouldn't mind Clinton running again.
 
#20 ·
Not much, obviously.

I think the first Presidential debate showed us the real Obama. Aloof and not really interested. He likes to make patronising speeches with a lot of rhetoric, but hasn't actually done much but talk for four years.

Everybody expected him to do something about Israel-Palestine, but he doesn't seem to even care. Previous Presidents did not make much progress, but at least they tried.
 
#15 ·
Obama wants to keep the tax break for families making less than $250,000 a year. But the republicans staunchly against it. The news interviewed a man who owns two flower shops and had income over $250,000 a year and with Obama's plan, he would have to pay $8,000 more tax a year. He said this would make him lay off employees. Not because his business would slow down but only because he has to compensate having to pay more tax. it does not matter that he will not suffer much from paying $8,000 more. He does not care someone works for him will suffer a lot more because of his selfishness AND THIS IS THE POLICY OF REPUBLICANS. It's OK the peasants are paid peanuts for hard work while the rich gets richer.

There are employers who are in the same situation and do not mind paying more but their voices were ignored by Mr. Boehner and his fellow Republicans.
 
#21 ·
i totally agree with u but he is no different then the rest.

who has leadership? David Cameron? Mahmoud Abbas? Benjamin Netanyahu? Hugo Chavez? Putin?

we can go a little east, maybe Hu Jintao the Chinese President or Julia Gillard?

all of them are failure in my eyes, they are Politicians not statesmen.

sadly, ppl like Menachem Begin, Abraham Lincoln, Simon Bolivar, Nelson Mandela atc atc are rare.

i feel like we are Doomed to suffer because of their selfishness, narrow head, their biggggg ego and local politics.
 
#23 ·
I think that is a piss poor statement. Fact is, just how a democratic government is, the system makes it quite difficult to progress since anything that needs to be passed must be approved by all the checks in place.. I'm not going to get into this discussion, but fact is, in general, in democratic governments, shit probably won't get done unless it is the issue is immediate, dire and has everyone on board and clearly the issues and problems Obama faces right now does not have a solution that is completely agreed by everyone.. If you want shit to get done, you're probably better off living in some kind of authoritarian country. Obviously doesn't mean things you are for/against are going to be tackled, but it certainly isn't going to go through the checks and balances of a democratic system. Call it flawed it is what has been created, so honestly, these kinds of comments are really unconstructive because regardless of how much "leadership" a president may have, it won't rise above the system..there will always be the opposite party and political members in general that oppose your shit.

E: on top of the issues already presented in the US's federal system, having these almost individualistic state governments makes it even more difficult. I think most countries in the world, including developed countries with democratic governments still have really shitty governmental systems.

Either way though, there is nothing for me to complain about. Streets are pretty clean for the most part, people aren't causing havoc or running amok, the US has a rather low tax rate compared to even many other developed countries (hypocritical and greedy Americans -.-) and I can do most things I want to without getting in trouble.
 
#27 ·
no fiscal cliff agreement in sight.

i can hardly understand how there can be so many middle class Americans who vote for the republican party. if you aren't wealthy you must really hate yourself to vote republican.

it's like a friend of mine said: "nothing is more tragic than a poor conservative".
 
#33 ·
I would not call the American middle class poor by any standard that I know of. What standard do you use?

Why vote for the left when history shows that is a sure way to guarantee a lower living standard?

But to paraphrase your friend, I guess nothing is more comic than a rich socialist.
 
#29 ·
“a wolf in sheep’s clothing” is a pretty accurate description.

Oliver Stone to RT: ‘US has become an Orwellian state’
28 December, 2012
https://rt.com/news/oliver-stone-us-orwellian-022/

Americans are living in an Orwellian state argue Academy Award-winning director Oliver Stone and historian Peter Kuznick as they sit down with RT to discuss US foreign policy and the Obama administration’s disregard for the rule of law. Both argue that Obama is a wolf in sheep’s clothing and that people have forgiven him a lot because of the “nightmare of the Bush presidency that preceded him.”

RT: It took both of you almost five years to produce this series. And in it you have a chapter called Obama: Management of a Wounded Empire. You give a harsh critique of the Obama administration. What in your eyes has been the most troubling aspect of his presidency, Oliver?

Oliver Stone: “I think under the disguise of sheep’s clothing he has been a wolf. That’s because of the nightmare of the Bush presidency that preceded him, people forgave him a lot. He was a great hope for change. The color of his skin, the upbringing, the internationalism, the globalism, seemed all evident. And he is an intelligent man. He has taken all the Bush changes and basically put them into the establishment, he has codified them. That is what is sad. So we are going into the second administration that is living outside the law and does not respect the law and foundations of our system, and he is a constitutional lawyer, you know. Without the law, it is the law of the jungle. Nuremburg existed for a reason and there was a reason to have trials, there is a reason for due process – ‘habeas corpus’ as they call it in the United States. “

RT: Do you agree Peter?

Peter Kuznick: “I agree. If you look at his domestic policy, he did not break with the Bush administration’s policies. If you look at his transparency – he claimed to be the transparency president when he was running for office. There has not been transparency. We have been actually classifying more documents under Obama than we did under Bush. All previous presidents between 1970 and 2008 indicted three people total under the Espionage Act. Obama has already indicted six people under the Espionage Act. The surveillance has not stopped. The incarceration without bringing people to trial has not stopped. So those policies have continued."

“Then there are war policies, militarization policies. We are maintaining that. We are fighting wars now in Yemen, Afghanistan, we are keeping troops in Afghanistan. We have not cut back the things that we all found so odious about the Bush administration and Obama has added some of his own. The drones policy – Obama had more drone attacks in the first eight months than Bush had his entire presidency. And these have very dubious international legality."

OS: “Peter was hopeful that in the second term there will be some more flexibility, we hope so. But, there is a system in place which is enormous – the Pentagon system.”

RT: It almost seems like they took the odious CIA policies and just rebranded them so it is now acceptable – the assassinations, the extrajudicial executioner without the due process. It is fascinating.

PK: “We complained during the Bush years that Bush was actually conducting surveillance without judiciary review. Obama is killing people - targeted assassinations without judiciary review. That to us is obviously much more serious.”

RT: You also cover Pearl Harbor, which of course led to the internment of Japanese American citizens. I do not think a lot of people acknowledge that once again underreported aspect of really what that meant. When you look at the surveillance grid in America today it almost seems like it is an open-air internment camp, where they do not need to intern people anymore because we have this grid set up in place. What do you guys think about that?

PK: “The US government now intercepts more than 1.7 billion messages a day from American citizens. That is email, telephone calls, and other forms of communication. Can you imagine: 1.7 billion? We’ve got this apparatus set up now with hundreds of thousands of people and over a million people with top security clearance in this kind of nightmarish state, this 1984 kind of state.”

OS: “One million top security clearances. That is a pretty heavy number. In other words, we are living in a fish pond and I think the sad part is that the younger people accept that. They are used to the invasion. And that is true, how can we follow the lives of everybody? But the truth is that we are all ultimately watching ourselves. It is an Orwellian state. It might not be oppressive on the surface, but there is no place to hide. Some part of you is going to end up in the database somewhere.”

oliver stone is just controlled opposition but he still has some good points. the world is rapidly moving toward an orwellian state, not just the u.s.
 
#30 ·
Obama exemplifies two glaring problems of modern democracy. The first is when you have an intellectual leader who resists the urge to be a demagogue in order to appeal to the sensibilities of the masses. For democracy to work, you need an informed and wise public that is willing to take the time to learn about important issues, not be gorged with entertainment 24/7. Second, he's been handcuffed by the looney partisanship of the CONservatives. And this is coming form a conservative.

Obama is the BEST president born in the WORST possible time in American history. Too bad because he's a true populist. When his contemporaries were making business connections in University, and trying to make it to the elite 1%, Obama was helping the poor in the inner cities, and dealing with issues which affect them, turning down lucrative opportunities despite his brilliance and talent.
 
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#31 ·
.

Obama is the BEST president born in the WORST possible time in American history. Too bad because he's a true populist. When his contemporaries were making business connections in University, and trying to make it to the elite 1%, Obama was helping the poor in the inner cities, and dealing with issues which affect them, turning down lucrative opportunities despite his brilliance and talent.
Why on earth did you decide it was the worst possible time in US history? What age are you?

Apart from that, yes, while his contemporaries were trying to make it to the elite 1%, Obama gave all that up for the much lesser prestige career of POTUS. How noble.
 
#38 ·
There is non doubt that this is the worse state America has been in since the Great Depression in my opinion (although the oil shocks of the 70s coupled with Vietnam was not ideal) but to be an American?'
 
#39 ·
There is non doubt that this is the worse state America has been in since the Great Depression in my opinion (although the oil shocks of the 70s coupled with Vietnam was not ideal) but to be an American?'
 
#50 · (Edited)
capitalist rooted economy but with restrictions on the market and an important participation of the state in social affairs and a helping hand to the ones in need. that's the society i am for, yes.

may that serve as a message to tons of idiots here who think of me as a communist/anarchist or whatnot (not to say that i don't respect anarchists and communists of course).
 
#46 ·
Hey "Buddy," you seem to be argumentative and a bit disingenuous in the way you debate (troll?). Google some academic papers written by professors of English for many examples of the phrase "affect change." Good luck!
 
#47 ·
It's a discussion forum. But why call me disingenuous? Everything I posted was an honest opinion. As in, I honestly believe that ""effect change" is the proper grammatical term.

Well, I tried, but with no luck. Maye you can give me a link. All my googles suggest that if you say "affect change" what you are saying is that change itself was changed. But if you effect change you bring about change. Not the same thing.

And remember, Har-tru got this going, not me.
 
#49 ·
Har-tru,

It seems you were right. You could say "affected change"" if you want to say he "pretended to change."

The difference is subtle. Congratulations.. As the dictionary example above shows, using "affect" is appropriate when someone is pretending.
 
#51 ·
buddyholly and abraxas21, it will be great to have a coffee and listen to both of u Debating on this and that, i love reading both of u

i dont share some of ur thought/Opinions/ideas but still like reading other ppl...
 
#55 ·
Since this thread deals with political issues, I guess it's ok to talk about, well, political issues. Although it's a no brainer that american imperialism and islamofascism are equal threats to world peace, at least obama has toned down the idiotic cowboy style rhetoric of his predecessor. Too bad most of his compatriots are ill-equipped to understand his ideas. "W" was no political fool and knew that he had to be a demagogue to get votes. Sadly, a progressive country make this does not. It will be a long while before another leader like Obama comes along. Expect more Ah-nolds and Jesse Venturas though.
 
#58 ·
Since this thread deals with political issues, I guess it's ok to talk about, well, political issues. Although it's a no brainer that american imperialism and islamofascism are equal threats to world peace, at least obama has toned down the idiotic cowboy style rhetoric of his predecessor. Too bad most of his compatriots are ill-equipped to understand his ideas.
What special equipment do you have? Which ideas?
 
#59 ·
"Tell you what" Tex. How about you take a turn at it and put forward some of your own ideas instead of just asking these open ended questions. I'll critique you for a while.
 
#61 ·
Personally, i believe Obama is the "New Hoover". Everything he is doing is helps the future generations. The debt screw it. Our economy naturally goes up and down, but setting up a platform for the next generation to have a strong start should be the plan.

His focus should be on education, domestic products, and less relying on foreign products.
 
#62 ·
If Obama had any guts from point of view of some person with opposite ideology than me (I am extremly anti-big governemnt) He would have gone the hell out of the 2 wars immediately, cut military budget in half, cut social security for rich people (create a maximum retirement wage around 100k dollars per year), cut CIA budget in half, end the war on drugs and instead put some taxes on weed and other drugs to create a new source for tax money and he would stop all kind of aid to Israel or Egypt or Paquistan or any other ally in the middle east. He would then get the budget working again and be free to create his big governemnt utopia without borrowing from the poor children who will have to grow up to pay for their parents' debt.

Ofcourse, Obama is gutless in every way and will hope that things only fall apart when he flees the sinking ship in 2016 leaving a budget deficit that is 130-140% of the GDP for the next president to handle.

Also, should have let those banks fail god dammit, you fcking scum fake poor mans hero. Too big to fail is a term invented by those who have too much power to fail.
 
#63 ·
If Obama had any guts from point of view of some person with opposite ideology than me (I am extremly anti-big governemnt) He would have gone the hell out of the 2 wars immediately, cut military budget in half, cut social security for rich people (create a maximum retirement wage around 100k dollars per year), cut CIA budget in half, end the war on drugs and instead put some taxes on weed and other drugs to create a new source for tax money and he would stop all kind of aid to Israel or Egypt or Paquistan or any other ally in the middle east. He would then get the budget working again and be free to create his big governemnt utopia without borrowing from the poor children who will have to grow up to pay for their parents' debt.

Ofcourse, Obama is gutless in every way and will hope that things only fall apart when he flees the sinking ship in 2016 leaving a budget deficit that is 130-140% of the GDP for the next president to handle.

Also, should have let those banks fail god dammit, you fcking scum fake poor mans hero. Too big to fail is a term invented by those who have too much power to fail.

This :cool:, Obama is too bi-partisan on some policies. The Obama Care is actually great for America in my opinion. Though the rate at which he has pulled out of the war is way too slow, everyday the U.S is over seas, somewhere around 1 million is spent per day. Check out costofwar.com for shocking $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ amounts:eek:
 
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