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Miami: The Fifth Slam?

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#1 · (Edited)
The Fifth Slam?

It comes up every year around this time. Is Miami the "fifth Slam"? That is, is this -- long the largest tournament after the Slams -- in the same league?

Many people give dogmatic responses. We'll try for something a little more nuanced: Our answer is "It is and it isn't." In one way, it's actually become more like the Slams in the past few years: The Slams now have 32 seeds, as Miami has had for years. But the Slams are all currently 128 draws, and Miami is 96. (We should note, of course, that the Slams have used other formats in the past.) The men's matches at Miami are best of three, not best of five. Miami is twelve days long, not fourteen. The Slams offer mixed doubles; Miami no longer does, though it did in the past. And, as of 2004, Indian Wells now follows the same format (96-draws for both men and women) that Miami has used for years, though Miami still has the edge in prize money. So there is still a "format difference" between the Slams and Miami.

Until recently, there hadn't been much difference in the fields. For the men, Miami is generally stronger than Wimbledon; the clay-courters usually find an excuse to skip the grass season, but they don't skip spring hardcourts. On the women's side, until last year, it was stronger than the Australian Open; a lot of top women skip Melbourne (in 2002 and 2003, it was Jelena Dokic, and Amelie Mauresmo was also out in the latter year; in the past, it's been the serve-and-volleyers, Jana Novotna and Nathalie Tauziat).

But last year, with Justine Henin-Hardenne not playing and Kim Clijsters injured, Miami lost a bit on the women's side. And now Lindsay Davenport has backed off playing it. On the other hand, it's almost the only non-Slam where both Williams Sisters play.

But there is another measure of how strong Miami is: The players who have won it. Let's take a look. We'll cut off the list at 1987. Prior to that, there was a large "Lipton Championships," but it wasn't at the current site.

Men's Winners:
2004: Andy Roddick
2003: Andre Agassi
2002: Andre Agassi
2001: Andre Agassi
2000: Pete Sampras
1999: Richard Krajicek
1998: Marcelo Rios
1997: Thomas Muster
1996: Andre Agassi
1995: Andre Agassi
1994: Pete Sampras
1993: Pete Sampras
1992: Michael Chang
1991: Jim Courier
1990: Andre Agassi
1989: Ivan Lendl
1988: Mats Wilander
1987: Miroslav Mecir

Women's Winners:
2004: Serena Williams
2003: Serena Williams
2002: Serena Williams
2001: Venus Williams
2000: Martina Hingis
1999: Venus Williams
1998: Venus Williams
1997: Martina Hingis
1996: Steffi Graf
1995: Steffi Graf
1994: Steffi Graf
1993: Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario
1992: Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario
1991: Monica Seles
1990: Monica Seles
1989: Gabriela Sabatini
1988: Steffi Graf
1987: Steffi Graf

The picture for the women is pretty clear: Every player who has won Miami in its time in Key Biscayne has been a Slam winner (though some had not yet won a Slam at the time of their victory), and all but Gabriela Sabatini won multiple Slams and spent time as the world's #1. This extends before 1987, we might add; before that, Chris Evert and Martina Navratilova took home titles. This isn't true for the other Tier I events; Kimiko Date won the Pan Pacific in 1995; Daniela Hantuchova won Indian Wells in 2002 and Kim Clijsters in 2003 and again this year; Amanda Coetzer won Hilton Head (now Charleston) in 1998; Mary Joe Fernandez won Berlin in 1997 and Amelie Mauresmo won in 2004; Jelena Dokic won Rome in 2001, Kim Clijsters won it in 2003, and Mauresmo took it in 2004; Mauresmo won the Canadian Open in 2002 and 2004 and Pam Shriver won in 1987; Nathalie Tauziat won Moscow in 1999, Jelena Dokic won it in 2001, and Magdalena Maleeva took home the title in 2002 (making it evidently the easiest Tier I for a lesser player to win); and Magdalena Maleeva won Zurich in 1994 and Alicia Molik on 2004...The newest Tier I, San Diego, has has multi-Slam winners every year for the last eight years, but back in its Tier II days, Kimiko Date won it in 1996. On the numbers, in fact, it's actually a bigger feat to win Miami than to win a single Slam.

The men aren't quite as clear-cut; Marcelo Rios never won a Slam, but he was #1; Mecir never won a Slam, but had assorted finals and would have been a genuine candidate except for his back. Every other Miami winner has won Slams; most of them have multiple Slams. It seems pretty clear: If you're good enough to win Miami, you're good enough to win Slams.

And yet, it's worth remembering that Miami is not really the Fifth Slam. Although, historically, it has had fields at least as strong as the Slams, and it still has more prize money than any other non-Slam, under the rules it is simply another tournament -- a Masters for the men, a Tier I for the women. In terms of points, it is exactly identical to the other eight Masters on the men's side, and while the women have different grades of Tier I events, Indian Wells offers as many points as Miami.

And that finally hit home last year, with the weak women's field. This year should be better, but it still won't be back to its glory days. In 2003, Miami probably did qualify as a "fifth Slam," at least in the sense that it was uniquely stronger than anything else. Now -- well, if we were to vote a women's Fifth Slam, it would probably be San Diego or Filderstadt. And it's unlikely that any men's event this year will be stronger than Indian Wells was.

A few years ago, there was talk of shifting Miami to green clay. It's not likely -- but it might well help everyone (except the hardcourt specialists, and even they might be healthier...).

written by JesusLarson...:eek:
 
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#2 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

Only some of the Americans believe it's the 5th Slam. Considering tournaments like Monte Carlo, Rome, Hamburg, Cincinatti and even the Paris Indoor have been around a lot longer than Miami, which didn't even have a permanent venue until recently.

Just because it has a large field doesn't mean it's the 5th Slam. That would mean it's more prestigious than the end of season TMS, which it's everything but.
 
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#5 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

Roger-No.1 said:
Sorry, it wants to look like one.
Too true.
 
#7 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

GeorgeWHitler said:
Only some of the Americans believe it's the 5th Slam. Considering tournaments like Monte Carlo, Rome, Hamburg, Cincinatti and even the Paris Indoor have been around a lot longer than Miami, which didn't even have a permanent venue until recently.

Just because it has a large field doesn't mean it's the 5th Slam. That would mean it's more prestigious than the end of season TMS, which it's everything but.
Miami is the 5th slam IMO.

Canada (Toronto/Montreal) is the 6th.

and the end-of-year tourny is the Lucky 7th. i like that ;)
 
#8 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

GeorgeWHitler said:
Only some of the Americans believe it's the 5th Slam. Considering tournaments like Monte Carlo, Rome, Hamburg, Cincinatti and even the Paris Indoor have been around a lot longer than Miami, which didn't even have a permanent venue until recently.

Just because it has a large field doesn't mean it's the 5th Slam. That would mean it's more prestigious than the end of season TMS, which it's everything but.
I agree 100%. Here in Europe this "5th Slam" thing is never even mentioned. Yes it's big, and yes it has a lot of money thrown at it - but it's no more prestigious or important than any of the other Masters' Series events, - and it certainly isn't a Slam in my opinion.
 
#9 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

tennischick said:
Miami is the 5th slam IMO.

Canada (Toronto/Montreal) is the 6th.

and the end-of-year tourny is the Lucky 7th. i like that ;)
What are you basing your theory on that it's the 5th Slam? It's just a marketing term.

It's a TMS event which awards the exactly the same point as the others. I don't hear serious players go wooooooooooooooooooooooo I won the 5th Slam.

There is no 5th Slam and won't be. :)
 
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#10 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

GeorgeWHitler said:
What are you basing your theory on that it's the 5th Slam? It's just a marketing term.

It's a TMS event which awards the exactly the same point as the others. I don't hear serious players go wooooooooooooooooooooooo I won the 5th Slam.

There is no 5th Slam and won't be. :)
then you're not listening hard enuf sweetie. i could've sworn i heard Agassi yell woooohoooo quite a few times :p

actually i think Miami is special mainly bec the Spanish-speaking players feel quite at home in that environment and never avoid playing it. so in a way i think of it as a more "international" tourney than most bec it attracts a wide variety of players -- like most of the Slams. i may be wrong -- i haven't crunched any numbers to arrive at this opinion -- but this is my impression.
 
#11 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

tennischick said:
then you're not listening hard enuf sweetie. i could've sworn i heard Agassi yell woooohoooo quite a few times :p

actually i think Miami is special mainly bec the Spanish-speaking players feel quite at home in that environment and never avoid playing it. so in a way i think of it as a more "international" tourney than most bec it attracts a wide variety of players -- like most of the Slams. i may be wrong -- i haven't crunched any numbers to arrive at this opinion -- but this is my impression.
Agassi probably said woo I can pay Gilbert's salary and also I can afford money for the kids when he has won Miami.

Well a larger field would attract more players. I mean the top players are nominated for the TMS automatically.

It might be "international" for a US event, definitely more so than the pensioner classic in Indian Wells, but does not mean that it's the 5th Slam.

Considering the multitude of people living in a smaller place that are around during the clay season, the TMS events before the French are very international, so that argument doesn't wash with me.

Granted the Hispanic population in Miami does give it a different feel which is good, but no way enough to justify it as the 5th slam.
 
#12 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

GeorgeWHitler said:
Agassi probably said woo I can pay Gilbert's salary and also I can afford money for the kids when he has won Miami.

Well a larger field would attract more players. I mean the top players are nominated for the TMS automatically.

It might be "international" for a US event, definitely more so than the pensioner classic in Indian Wells, but does not mean that it's the 5th Slam.

Considering the multitude of people living in a smaller place that are around during the clay season, the TMS events before the French are very international, so that argument doesn't wash with me.

Granted the Hispanic population in Miami does give it a different feel which is good, but no way enough to justify it as the 5th slam.
crunch some numbers to support your point. but as long as most of the Spanish-speaking dudes show up in addition to Lbj, Mirnyi, Rogi, Knowles (my caribbean sweetie :hearts: ) and Nestor, Safin, and Pavel, i will continue to believe that the world has been adequately represented :p

now i'm off to bed. carry on guys/gals :wavey:
 
#14 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

128 players....

Or best 3 of 5 matches.....

They should work on that first, and then the Slam angle.

Will they get there?
 
#15 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

BlackSilver said:
In my opnion, the fifth most important tournament in the world is Masters Cup, by far. In my point of view to have the eight best ones together makes it well more important than a normal masters series
:yeah:
 
#16 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

Roger-No.1 said:
128 players....

Or best 3 of 5 matches.....

They should work on that first, and then the Slam angle.

Will they get there?
No, they won't get there.
 
#17 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

No, its not the 5th slam. It may be the 5th biggest party on the tour (with the men and women in one place, the money, the city, etc, etc, etc), but its not a slam. Interesting to float the idea of having it on green clay, but if they did that, it would have to be a week or two after IW wouldn't it? To give people time to change surfaces?
 
#18 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

GeorgeWHitler said:
No, they won't get there.
:lol:
And I thought someone was going to come and say, yes, they will...
 
#19 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

tennischick said:
crunch some numbers to support your point. but as long as most of the Spanish-speaking dudes show up in addition to Lbj, Mirnyi, Rogi, Knowles (my caribbean sweetie :hearts: ) and Nestor, Safin, and Pavel, i will continue to believe that the world has been adequately represented :p
Numbers are absolutely useless the criteria that was shown to reach them has been explained and what purpose would it actually serve in this case?

Miami has never been the 5th Slam or ever will be, it's called marketing and someone as media-savvy as yourself would be aware of this.

I've already said TMC is the most prestigious event after the Slams and there are reasons for this.

Well if you have 96 players wouldn't there be a chance of having some international representation?

The rest of world which there is one when it comes to tennis doesn't buy any argument about the 5th Slam and yes I have been to the odd international event. :)
 
#20 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

Fee said:
No, its not the 5th slam. It may be the 5th biggest party on the tour (with the men and women in one place, the money, the city, etc, etc, etc), but its not a slam. Interesting to float the idea of having it on green clay, but if they did that, it would have to be a week or two after IW wouldn't it? To give people time to change surfaces?
Green clay.... Maybe one or two International Series between IW and Miami....
 
#21 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

BlackSilver said:
In my opnion, the fifth most important tournament in the world is Masters Cup, by far. In my point of view to have the eight best ones together makes it well more important than a normal masters series
exactly. more prize money than the slams and more ranking points than a master's event. This is the 5th largest tennis tournament. GWH is also right. Miami "the 5th slam" is just a marketing tool.
 
#22 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

*TC interrupts brushing her teeth to respond to these bozos*

people!!! you can't define a Slam only by the # of enrolees. yes an official Slam consists of 128 players. but there are unofficial Slams with lesser #'s. but greater (or equal) representation. and tons of money. and terrific atmosphere! and a trophy worth holding aloft that doesn't resemble a fish! and which won't fall apart in your arms! i could go on! but i won't -- i have to go to sleep. :p

more defense of my position tomorrow. or whenever i get a moment to post ;)
 
#23 · (Edited)
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

tennischick said:
*TC interrupts brushing her teeth to respond to these bozos*

people!!! you can't define a Slam only by the # of enrolees. yes an official Slam consists of 128 players. but there are unofficial Slams with lesser #'s. but greater (or equal) representation. and tons of money. and terrific atmosphere! and a trophy worth holding aloft that doesn't resemble a fish! and which won't fall apart in your arms! i could go on! but i won't -- i have to go to sleep. :p

more defense of my position tomorrow. or whenever i get a moment to post ;)
We need you here TC. you're trying to make an important point.

In a slam.... 5 set matches need more fitness... and you can have a player ranked 135 in the first round....

Maybe the atmosphere,and the trophy could help your case....
 
#24 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

TC, the board awaits your passionate defences.
 
#25 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

GeorgeWHitler said:
TC, the board awaits your passionate defences.
:lol:
That post is very funny, GWH

Maybe tomorow....
 
#26 ·
Re: Miami: The Fifth Slam? (a non-Federer discussion :eek: )

What makes slams "slams" is that just about all players want to win them the most, I haven't heard players aiming to win Miami more then the other TMS and I don't really see a reason as to why it would be more prestigious then the other slams, as has been mentioned its a fairly new event.
Don't think intangibles such as draw size are what makes slams special.
 
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