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Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates (Their rivalry)

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#1 ·
Just something I thought about :p

let's think about it this way:

Fed's Australian Open = Djoko's Wimbledon.
Fed's Roland Garros = Djoko's Roland Garros.
Fed's Wimbledon = Djoko's Australian Open.
Fed's US Open = Djoko's US Open.

2003 & 2008 - First GS for each player
Both players won their first GS, and in their 'best' tournament of the four.

2004 & 2011 - First year of absolute Dominance
Both won 3 Slams in those year, and were more dominant than any other player on the tour. Also, the only Slam they didn't win was their worst Slam - RG. I know Fed's done it in 2004 which is of course right the next year after 2003, and Novak had a two year break, but oh well...

2005 & 2012 - A little less successful than the previous year
Only two Slams for Roger: His best one, and his second best. Novak has already won his best slam this year, so he now needs to win the USO :p

-------------

I'm kidding of course, but this is just interesting :)
 
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#458 ·
Re: Federer looks at Novak as the real no. 1 and best HC player atm...

Federer taking a page from Nadal's book:worship::worship::worship:

Fed was playing way better than Novak at both the AO and USO. In USO Djoko got lucky (you can't say you're better than the opponent when you have to save match points) and at the AO Fed was beaten by his nemesis, but he would have buutchered Djoko had they met.
 
#459 · (Edited)
Re: Federer looks at Novak as the real no. 1 and best HC player atm...

Question: Which of the two players has the most HC wins since last September? Answer: Federer.

Question: Which of the two players has the most Top-10 HC wins since last September? Answer: Federer.

Djokovic and Federer haven't met on hardcourt since the famous US Open match, which was the moment everything changed for Federer (and one match later Djokovic 2.0 disappeared...) So I think either can win it, depending on their respective forms this evening. :)
 
#461 · (Edited)
Re: Federer looks at Novak as the real no. 1 and best HC player atm...

"hard courts" is a generic word : Miami and Cincy are completely different, and the Australian open in the past was clearly quicker than now.

Djokovic can be said as better on slow hardcourts (of course he would have defeated Fed in Australia even though Fed played Nadal in a very cold day, which made the game very slow), but quick hardcourts are another story, esp. in Cincy which is the fastest hardcourt surface. And the US Open is the most important quick hardcourt and they had epic matches there.
 
#464 ·
Re: Federer looks at Novak as the real no. 1 and best HC player atm...

But in the end of the day, it's Nadal who have been owned.

IMO, Wimbly 2011 would have been in the bag if Federer had reached Djokovic, the same for the USO without this unreal
return (though Federer would have a chance there), and if Federer was in the Djoker's semi in the AO, huge chance as well.
 
#483 ·
Djokovic is not the greatest hard court player

I said last week on this forum that all the novak fans were going wayyyy overboard. He's the best at SLOW hard courts. Federer is better when conditions are quick. Plexicushion+Wilson Australian Open Ball = Djokovic is King.

But not on Decoturf with us open or even penn ball.

If Cincy's weather stayed calm then Djoko was in trouble. Today it was calm - and too quick against the Master. No shifts in air pressure, wind , humidity or wind speed that could mess up the highly aggressive game of Fed. And not a slow enough ball or surface in this quick climate. Novak was DEFENSELESS and knew it

Plus, Novak hasn't been totally 100% all year. Still a great player - on any surface - but he was lucky Tommy Haas is 34 and has played a lot of tennis or he would have lost Toronto too. (Tipsarevic looked horrible -gave that match to Djoko). I also pointed out that the last 2 years Fed had MPs against Djoko at the US Open. So get a grip

Great Player - not the best ever and not the greatest on hard courts. And he was NOT awesome last week - he was good. Gilbert and the fans were going wayy overboard. And while , physically, Novak is the best player today and can still win the US Open - he's not #1 right now - The KIng of All Time is - at 30+ and regaining his crown after 7 years on top. Federer's racquet skills are far above novak and most players in the game today. His combo of footspeed, power and racquet skills are unsurpassed still.

So just give it up. Djokovic may be the future - but Fed will always be King!


~tenniscrier.com
 
#484 ·
Nole is currently ahead of Fed in the race, for Fed to have a chance to end the year as #1 I think he needs to have more points than Nole after the USO.

Nole is playing one tournament more than Fed (Beijing) and I don't think Fed can defend his 1000 points in Bercy.
 
#485 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1



More points than Nole after USO would be desirable, but it's not a must. Indoor hard favours Roger and I'm confident he can overcome a moderate deficit (<1000 points) during that part of the season even with one tournament less. He didn't lose a single match on that surface last year or earlier this year...
 
#486 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

Roger will get the no. 1 only if Nole blinks and doesn't deliver in Asia. He has tons of points to defend and i don't see him defending Paris. He should play Shangai, Basel and WTF. Maybe Tokyo is he loses before QF at USO
 
#487 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

Roger winning Cinci made things interresting- i will look at RACE so Nole is few points ahead in RACE now with for both guys USO, Shanghai, Basel,Paris and WTF to play + Nole will be in Beijing - where he is 2x defending champion from 2009,2010 last year he didn´t play. Looking at RACE USO F can be crucial if they play each other in F. that means there is point differential of 1600 points, because 800 points between F and W at slam, but if one wins vs the other one he stops him from W, so basically 1600 points in stake if they face each other in USO F. I think after long time this 2012 season can be interresting and YE No.1 can be decided at WTF finally. It would be something special for example Roger beating Nole in WTF F but Nole ending No.1 few points ahead for 2012.
 
#490 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

First of all a lot of people are talking about defending points which has nothing to do with year end rankings.......

For year end rankings we must look at the race points not 52 week ranking.

Djokovic and Roger are neck and neck with the serb leading by 165 points, I think.

People are forgetting Roger might play Shanghai. There's also no guarantee Djokovic will do all that well.
I really think Djokovic will get the year end #1 ranking beacuse first Roger has said (can't find the damn interview) that YE #1 is not a priority for him else he would've played Toronto.
Also if Roger wins or gets to the finals of the US Open I don't see him playing shanghai so he'll lose 1000 points there. Djokovic will alsom play Beijing a 500 tournament which Roger won't and as for the Paris masters it will be hard for Roger to play 3 straight weeks and since he isn't skipping Basel he might not play Paris.

So worst case scenario:
Roger - 2000 (US Open) + 500 (Basel) + 1500 (WTF )= 4000 points
Djokovic - 2000 (US Open) + 500 (Beijing) + 1000 (Shanghai) + 500 (Basel) + 1000 (Paris) + 1500 (WTF) = 6500 points

Worst case scenario is out of Roger's hands, even if Roger plays one of shanghai or paris it is still out of Roger's hands. For the year end #1 to be dependant in the hands of Roger he must play both Shanghai and Paris.
 
#491 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

One thing that really make me wonder is how good will Roger be indoors-yes he is best indoor player in the world, no doubt about it, but i am not so optimistic about him, can´t see him win BAsel, Paris, WTF
firstly Paris has stupid schedule - 3 weeks in row BAsel, Paris, WTF, than Roger this season is doing very well is playing a lot of matches, don´t want look on stats right now, but i think he haven´t played so many matches since 2006 probably, so during time of indoor tournaments he can be little bit tired, rusty after long season call it how you want and lastly you can´t stop age, simply Roger is going to be again older during those indoor events. I can´t see really any possible solution for him to win in 3 weeks in row BAsel, Paris, WTF under circumstances.

Also important factor in 2011 was that Roger´s biggest competiton was TSonga, NAdal never was factoor indoors, but Nole was burned aout-after injury whatever, Murray didn´t do much either. This 2012 indoor season there can be Nole and Murray in form. Much different circumstances than BAsel, Paris, WTF 2011
 
#492 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

the end of year is always hard to predict, and Djokovic has seldom finished it great (and I include Shanghai here).

Besides "playing" is not important, to really get points you need to go far in the tournament

I don't think we can predict what will happen after the US Open, although yes, I don't think Fed will play Paris-Bercy considering the schedule this year.

Anyway the US Open is crucial for the YE number 1 ... and in itself.
 
#493 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

The plus-side for Federer is that he is undisputedly the best indoor-player in the world and has collected clearly more points than Djokovic in both 2010 and 2011 there. I'm starting to think Djokovic has to win Shanghai and Fed to skip it for Djokovic to get the year-end.
 
#495 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

Fed has nothing to defend in Asia (I think), but after that it might get interesting. It depends on whether or not Djokovic will be able to defend the USO.
yes, shanghai was the only tournament on his schedule and he skipped it to rest/regroup

if fed wins the USO he will be ahead of djoko in the race for YE #1 so djoko will have to win more points then fed (moto-proof :eek: )
the asian swing is the perfect way to get those points (no fed, rafa out of form, it leaves murray, should be able to get some points)
but if he fed is still ahead after the asian swing it's going to be tough :

- basel, fed will be there and surely in the final so he'll have to win the title to get more points than roger.
- bercy, fed will skip/tank I guess and there's a dilemma for djoko, go deep in the tournament and win points but he risks to be tired for the YEC the next where fed will be at 100%
- fed is better than djoko indoors
- fatigue : if djoko plays the asian swing djoko will be coming from dubai with not much rest : 1 week between dubai and IW, 2 weeks between miami and MC, 2 weeks between MC and madrid, 1 week before RG, 1 week before wimb, 3 weeks before OG, 1 week before USO, 3 weeks between USO and beijing, 1 week between shanghai and basel and some heavy b2b2b RG+halle and OG+Toronto+cincy so I doubt he'll be fit and ready to be as good as fed was last year for instance.
 
#496 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

The old man with most likely take year end #1 :facepalm:

Oh how I miss Nadal teaching some humility to Olderer. Too bad no one is able to step up to the challenge even though the geezer is almost ready to have grandkids :eek:
 
#497 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

The old man with most likely take year end #1 :facepalm:

Oh how I miss Nadal teaching some humility to Olderer. Too bad no one is able to step up to the challenge even though the geezer is almost ready to have grandkids :eek:
Incredible isn't it. You've basically admitted indirectly that Federer is doing something incredible. The "geezer" beat Nadal in straights on slower hard courts not many months ago if I recall correctly too. I agree - simply incredible.
 
#500 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

Djokovic has already shown that after a heavy early year schedule he doesn't have much left for the end of the year.
It happened last year.

No one is better than Fed even now playing for months on end at a high level, he's done that for years so it's nothing new.
 
#504 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

fed will play shanghai.
muzza did not win dubai.
 
#507 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

I honestly don't think Roger is concerned about the YE No.1 ranking since he took the all-time record from Sampras. 300 weeks are practically a lock at this moment.
And considering Nole's smart scheduling throughout career I wouldn't expect him to stretch his body just to regain the number one spot- Federer will loose this position next year anyway(too many points to defend for a 32-years old) and Novak stands as the only possible condidate to occupy his place.
 
#508 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

I honestly don't think Roger is concerned about the YE No.1 ranking since he took the all-time record from Sampras. 300 weeks are practically a lock at this moment.
And considering Nole's smart scheduling throughout career I wouldn't expect him to stretch his body just to regain the number one spot- Federer will loose this position next year anyway(too many points to defend for a 32-years old) and Novak stands as the only possible condidate to occupy his place.
Federer currently only has 1000 points he needs to defend at 32, the rest he will defend at 31. Since 30 was not too old I don't see why 31 would have to be. Djokovic will also be a year older, and out of his official prime years of 22-25. While I don't see anyone else overtaking him because of it he could drop a notch in quality, making it easier for Federer to maintain the advantage.

And while the YE #1 might not be the highest priority, Federer is well aware of the fact that a sixth would tie the record. He likes records.
 
#513 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

Not even talking of records, finishing the year at number 1 at 31 years old in a very physical era and with such competitors as Djokovic, Nadal and Murray, even though they're not at their best (although in their prime years :eek: ), would be just incredible and would fully achieve the "back to youth" story at an old age which this year looks like for him.
How many prime years does Nadal have? Clay king was already a physical beast at 18/19 years! Nobody would say at that time "He will probably be in his physical prime when he is about 26" His physical prime was more likely to happen at around 20-24 years and it probably did.
 
#515 ·
Re: Endless Djokovic/Federer Debates - Year End Number 1

How many prime years does Nadal have? Clay king was already a physical beast at 18/19 years! Nobody would say at that time "He will probably be in his physical prime when he is about 26" His physical prime was more likely to happen at around 20-24 years and it probably did.
Nadal is indeed a more peculiar/complex case but his age generally should be a "prime age".

And he did reach the finals of 5 slams in a row until RG this year.

My point was general and I did say that Djoko, Nadal and Murray were not at their best this year.

Anyway, they're still far from 30 years old.
 
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