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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-22-2009 04:40 PM
Andra85
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

I didn't see any of David's matches, so I'm sure I'm not qualified to analyze anything about them, but I do have some thoughts about his state of health and how it could have affected the Monaco match. We know that David suffered fevers all week and was probably not feeling well. Just based on that, I'd say it's possible he was feeling poorly (and perhaps had a spike in his fever at the very end of the match), and perhaps couldn't focus on closing it out. I'm speaking only for this match in particular, not previous matches where his serve has let him down while trying to close out a match.

Depending on how high a fever he experienced, and if it hit him while on court, he may not have been fully in his mind (not delirious, exactly, but not able to think properly, as fevers sometimes do). I'm not attempting to excuse his performance, but I do believe illness could have been a third opponent out there.

He did pretty well to get that far having been sick all week.
02-22-2009 02:31 PM
sigmagirl91
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeretiC View Post
Any news ih he going to Acapulco?
So far, he's still in the draw. No news of any withdrawals.
02-22-2009 12:37 PM
HeretiC
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

Any news ih he going to Acapulco?
02-22-2009 02:50 AM
krystlel
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

I wasn't able to watch much of the match. The stream stopped working for me at 5-2 in the first set, and from then on, I only saw brief glimpses of it on the bad stream but even that didn't work that well so after a while I gave up. I briefly saw the end of the second set, and thought that he seemed too passive/tentative in that 5-4 game, then completely fell apart the next service game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joolz View Post
I've just had a look at three other matches this year where David got broken serving for the set/match. Copa Telmex R2 vs Gimeno-Traver, Sydney final vs Nieminen and Sydney quarterfinal vs Hewitt (which is where it all began this season).

I think the truly disconcerting part is that those games weren't even tightly contested. There were no lengthy deuce battles. Not even saved set/match points - because David never got that far. Instead, he got broken easily, making series of unforced errors or even double faults (on break point). Playing tentatively and without confidence, even during matches he had dominated up to that point. As if serving for the set/match was evoking doubts and fears of failing, rather than excitement at the chance to win.

I mean, it's not like he has never done this kind of thing prior to this season. One example is his third round match against Federer at Paris 2007, where David got broken, serving for the match. But back then, it was Federer on the other side of the net and David didn't just surrender his serve. Federer at least had to fight for that break.

What's new (and very worrying) is both the frequency with which it has been happening this season and the manner in which he has lost those crucial games. The serve might be David's biggest weakness, as well as his self-confessed least favourite shot. But that doesn't explain why those games seem to have become such a big problem this year. When David should be experienced enough to deal with those situations and in fact used to be really good at handling far worse ones.

To be honest, the whole thing reminds me of something Marat Safin once said. About thinking too much on court, constantly constructing different scenarios in your head and somehow, they always tend to be bad ones. I think that this might be what's happening to David in those situations. That he's just thinking too much. And mostly about what happens if he loses that game.

With this match, he probably kept thinking about whether his fever-weakened body would manage to stand up to the test of a third set. It didn't in the end. But perhaps, if he hadn't thought about it quite as much, there wouldn't have been a third set.
Well it's weird that this lack of confidence serving out the set seemed to come/start at a similar time to when he was playing well enough, tennis-wise like it was out of the blue. Even when he's feeling pretty good about himself, that kind of belief doesn't extend to his ability to finish off matches.

It's not the first time he has gotten into this trend though. I remember late 2006/early 2007 as an example of that, almost happening every single time as well. Masters Cup vs Roddick and Ljubicic, Basel against Lopez, Davis Cup against Safin and Davydenko (sometimes he was shaky but managed to hold it off). I think in those cases those games turned out to be more of a fight rather than being broken tamely though.

But I thought last year was the best he had done in closing out matches, giving the impression that maybe he had overcome those problems. But things like this can quickly come back to haunt you I guess.
02-22-2009 12:19 AM
sigmagirl91
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joolz View Post
I've just had a look at three other matches this year where David got broken serving for the set/match. Copa Telmex R2 vs Gimeno-Traver, Sydney final vs Nieminen and Sydney quarterfinal vs Hewitt (which is where it all began this season).

I think the truly disconcerting part is that those games weren't even tightly contested. There were no lengthy deuce battles. Not even saved set/match points - because David never got that far. Instead, he got broken easily, making series of unforced errors or even double faults (on break point). Playing tentatively and without confidence, even during matches he had dominated up to that point. As if serving for the set/match was evoking doubts and fears of failing, rather than excitement at the chance to win.

I mean, it's not like he has never done this kind of thing prior to this season. One example is his third round match against Federer at Paris 2007, where David got broken, serving for the match. But back then, it was Federer on the other side of the net and David didn't just surrender his serve. Federer at least had to fight for that break.

What's new (and very worrying) is both the frequency with which it has been happening this season and the manner in which he has lost those crucial games. The serve might be David's biggest weakness, as well as his self-confessed least favourite shot. But that doesn't explain why those games seem to have become such a big problem this year. When David should be experienced enough to deal with those situations and in fact used to be really good at handling far worse ones.

To be honest, the whole thing reminds me of something Marat Safin once said. About thinking too much on court, constantly constructing different scenarios in your head and somehow, they always tend to be bad ones. I think that this might be what's happening to David in those situations. That he's just thinking too much. And mostly about what happens if he loses that game.

With this match, he probably kept thinking about whether his fever-weakened body would manage to stand up to the test of a third set. It didn't in the end. But perhaps, if he hadn't thought about it quite as much, there wouldn't have been a third set.

Any word as to how the fever came about, or if there were any accompanying symptoms aside from fatigue?
02-22-2009 12:13 AM
Joolz
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

I've just had a look at three other matches this year where David got broken serving for the set/match. Copa Telmex R2 vs Gimeno-Traver, Sydney final vs Nieminen and Sydney quarterfinal vs Hewitt (which is where it all began this season).

I think the truly disconcerting part is that those games weren't even tightly contested. There were no lengthy deuce battles. Not even saved set/match points - because David never got that far. Instead, he got broken easily, making series of unforced errors or even double faults (on break point). Playing tentatively and without confidence, even during matches he had dominated up to that point. As if serving for the set/match was evoking doubts and fears of failing, rather than excitement at the chance to win.

I mean, it's not like he has never done this kind of thing prior to this season. One example is his third round match against Federer at Paris 2007, where David got broken, serving for the match. But back then, it was Federer on the other side of the net and David didn't just surrender his serve. Federer at least had to fight for that break.

What's new (and very worrying) is both the frequency with which it has been happening this season and the manner in which he has lost those crucial games. The serve might be David's biggest weakness, as well as his self-confessed least favourite shot. But that doesn't explain why those games seem to have become such a big problem this year. When David should be experienced enough to deal with those situations and in fact used to be really good at handling far worse ones.

To be honest, the whole thing reminds me of something Marat Safin once said. About thinking too much on court, constantly constructing different scenarios in your head and somehow, they always tend to be bad ones. I think that this might be what's happening to David in those situations. That he's just thinking too much. And mostly about what happens if he loses that game.

With this match, he probably kept thinking about whether his fever-weakened body would manage to stand up to the test of a third set. It didn't in the end. But perhaps, if he hadn't thought about it quite as much, there wouldn't have been a third set.
02-21-2009 11:45 PM
frula08
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

it happens sometimes, remember roger serving 6-5 30-0 in TMC in 2005, and david won that match 7-6; no one say a word about roger choking, and we gave all the credit to david; lets give credit to monaco, he played a magnificent match today.
02-21-2009 10:16 PM
sigmagirl91
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minerva View Post
His incapacity to serve out sets or matches is getting ridiculous.

As soon as he was broken serving for the match I had no doubt there was a big chance he would lose the match.

He is getting too predicable in a really bad way.
I agree. This one was just appalling. It was handed to him on a platter, and he did not take it. What a way to lose!!
02-21-2009 09:51 PM
Minerva
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

His incapacity to serve out sets or matches is getting ridiculous.

As soon as he was broken serving for the match I had no doubt there was a big chance he would lose the match.

He is getting too predicable in a really bad way.
02-21-2009 07:56 PM
sigmagirl91
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeretiC View Post
He looked like he did not want to spend either emotional either physical energy. But he was still 2 classes above Monaco until that 5-4 30:0.
That's why it was imperative for him to have closed Monaco out then. One almost had the feeling that, if he did not, then it was going to be a wrap.
02-21-2009 07:51 PM
HeretiC
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmagirl91 View Post
Nah. For the last few days, David has not feeling well. When you're not feeling well, it's difficult to expend a lot of emotional energy.
He looked like he did not want to spend either emotional either physical energy. But he was still 2 classes above Monaco until that 5-4 30:0.
02-21-2009 07:38 PM
sigmagirl91
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeretiC View Post
The more I think the more I found this a very suspicious result. David was at least 2 classes higher than Monaco for 2 sets and all of a sudden Monaco stopped spewing errors and David starts to make them. Too much of a coincidence. David was placing the ball nicely from side to side but none of those shots had any pace on them. He wasn't agitated at all at any point which is also very unlike him. I hope this match won't fall into investigation by a gambling committee.
Nah. For the last few days, David has not feeling well. When you're not feeling well, it's difficult to expend a lot of emotional energy.
02-21-2009 07:37 PM
sigmagirl91
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joolz View Post
I just thought he looked really tired in the third. Like he didn't have much left in the tank. After the Ferrero match, David said he had a fever on the day of the match against Gimeno-Traver. Which would explain his fading strength. Though not the choke...

Which, folks, may explain that blister on the side of his mouth.
02-21-2009 07:32 PM
Joolz
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

I watched part of the third set on the Betfair stream and they still had David as the favourite to win this match.

I just thought he looked really tired in the third. Like he didn't have much left in the tank. After the Ferrero match, David said he had a fever on the day of the match against Gimeno-Traver. Which would explain his fading strength. Though not the choke...
02-21-2009 07:08 PM
HeretiC
Re: Copa Telmex 2009 !

However, this very much ruined my day
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