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Fed/Nadal starting to remind me of Graf/Seles

6K views 95 replies 50 participants last post by  Marc23 
#1 ·
There are major differences between these two rivalries, but it's interesting to note that Graf was dominating for years, possibly to become the best of all time, then Seles, a few years younger, appeared on the scene.

Seles began her own domination, winning 3 of the four slams, including the French three times in a row, and took over the No. 1 position from Graf, who became No. 2. At the AO 1993, Seles beat Graf 36 63 62.

Of course, Seles never dominated Graf and never could figure out Wimbledon, but I think Fed/Nadal reflects this rivalry more than any other in recent history.
 
#3 ·
very good pick up, just when I thought we were all out of Federer Nadal analogies. And you are quite correct, Seles was considered a force of Nature, mentally rock solid and a more forcefull rather than artistic game, quite similar to Nadal.

And likewise, Graf was considered the one with the more plesant, flexible game, but who was also losing ground to the young force of nature seles. Similarity in many ways...
 
#7 ·
Both graf & federer had the FH as their foremost weapon.
 
#13 ·
I can totally understand the temptation to want to draw comparisons and you've pointed out some good ones. On the surface it makes sense but when you start to disect it you also find way too many differences- important differences.

One difference is that Monica never managed to beat Graf on any other surface other than clay and rebound ace- not once did she ever beat Graf on a traditional hard court, indoors, or on grass. On the other hand, Graf has beaten Seles on all surfaces (never at Oz though). This example kinda reverses the Nadal-Fed trend where Nadal seems to be able to get the upper hand against Fed regardless of surface.
 
#18 ·
Because all of you are taking statistics when Seles was a very young girl, and then after being snabbed.

But Seles was clearly dominating Graf.

Saying all these things about Graf's titles is quite undecent if you consider this owes so much to a criminal.
 
#14 ·
Pretty insightful comparison. There was also a bit of a mental issue for Graf; it was clear she really wasn't that sure about what to do. Faster surfaces, like grass, made things very clear for her (a difference from Federer). But on clay and slower hard courts, you saw her struggling to construct and stick with a game plan to counter this new challenge.

She would later develop the tools, strategy and confidence to neutralize Seles. But that, unfortunately, was partly due to the two-year breathing room given to her by a fan.
 
#91 ·
Pretty insightful comparison. There was also a bit of a mental issue for Graf; it was clear she really wasn't that sure about what to do. Faster surfaces, like grass, made things very clear for her (a difference from Federer). But on clay and slower hard courts, you saw her struggling to construct and stick with a game plan to counter this new challenge.

She would later develop the tools, strategy and confidence to neutralize Seles. But that, unfortunately, was partly due to the two-year breathing room given to her by a fan.
No, Seles was just twice as slow when she eventually came back.
 
#17 · (Edited)
30 april 1993: the day that changed tennis. Seles at 19(!) had won 8 slams and 3 Masters, 1 RG and the Master in 1990, 3 slams and the Master in 1991 (she skipped Wimbledon), 3 slams and the Master (she lost only in the final in Wimbledon) in 1992, in 1993 she won the AO before the german maniac stabbed her. Nobody knows what this girl would have achieved, many think this was only the start to what could have been the greatest carreer in the history of the sport. The maniac who stabbed her didn't spend a single day in prison and Seles lost her number 1 position after the stabbing as if she had chosen not to play (Graf and the other top players voted to take this decision). Graf, who was nearly 6 years older than Seles, had won 11 slams when Seles was stabbed, only 2 in the period AO 1991-AO 1993, suddenly won 6 slams in 1993-1994 with Seles out of the competition and never spent a word for the young rival. Seles was serbian and those were the days of the war in the ex Yugoslavia. Many (Gianni Clerici and Bud Collins among the others ) suspect that what happened was decided by politics: nobody would want a serbian number 1 in the sport during the war. Tennis went on as if Seles had never existed. Strangely enough Seles was welcomed back in the sport only after she had become an american citizen. Seles came back in 1995, lost in the finals of the US open to Graf (Seles served an ace in the set point of the first set's tie break but the ball was called out and she lost the set, won the second set 6 0, only to lose in the third set, of course tired as a player forced out of the game for 27 months could have been ), Seles went on to win AO 1996 but she never was the same player again.
She had lost the determination, the ferocious attention, the steely will and , in the end, the love for the game (who can blame her for that?). She's still remembered as one the GOATS for what she has achieved till the age of 19 and 1 month! It's incredible! She never complained about what happened to her; during the second part of her carreer, she was always gracious and smiling even when losing. The influence she's had over the players we now know (the Williams in particular) is under our eyes.
The h2hs count nothing if you consider Seles faced Graf mostly when she was only 15-16-17-18 yo, anyway she was 3-1 in slam finals. This was all so unfair.
Yes Nadal reminds me of Seles for the extraordinary way they have to stay on the court, to read the match, to always do the right thing at the right moment, and for the kindness of their nature out of the court, but if you take a look on YOUTUBE at the matches of Seles in 1990-1993, you realise she was much more aggressive than Nadal, and then you realise how thin she was and how hard she hit the ball with so little amount of UE though always aiming for the lines.
I once rooted for Seles and now I root for Nadal, I hope he can achieve what Seles unfairly could not achieve.
 
#37 ·
Yes Nadal reminds me of Seles for the extraordinary way they have to stay on the court, to read the match, to always do the right thing at the right moment, and for the kindness of their nature out of the court, but if you take a look on YOUTUBE at the matches of Seles in 1990-1993, you realise she was much more aggressive than Nadal, and then you realise how thin she was and how hard she hit the ball with so little amount of UE though always aiming for the lines.
I once rooted for Seles and now I root for Nadal, I hope he can achieve what Seles unfairly could not achieve.
:worship:

I hope Nadal never plays in Basel. :scared:
 
#21 ·
Yes, the only thing clear about the Graf-Seles rivalry is that it's a pity they didn't get to play it out. There was no domination, and there's no way of knowing how many slams either would've won in the other's presence. Either player could have pulled a Borg, Austin, Wilander, Courier, Hingis, Sampras, Serena, Henin....

Come to think of it: making comparisons with the Graf/Seles rivalry just makes me more appreciative of Nadal/Federer being played out, despite all that could happen to cut it short.
 
#22 ·
Think of how many more slams Evert would have had won if there was no Navratilova, her only equal rival at the time. The same is true of Agassi VS Sampras, Roger VS Nadal. When Seles was stabbed Graf lost her only equal rival capable of winning Slams and other important tournaments. The stabbing of Seles was probably the greatest tragedy in women's tennis. I agree with Bud Collins that politics probably contributed to the shabby treatment Monica received from the WTA and its players.
 
#23 ·
True...but I don't see any similarities except in the game of Graf/Federer...Graf had always been up in h2h against Seles ending up 10:5 while Nadal(who you here compare with Seles) now has 13:6 against Federer...Graf won everything minimum 4 times(plus OI Games in Los Angeles and Seoul) unlike Federer,Nadal or Seles...who are lacking one or two things...closest is Nadal in terms of winning almost everything(he just needs US Open)...
 
#24 ·
No one talks about the similarities in the way Seles played Graf. Send everything to the backhand until you get an error/short ball and take it up the line for the winner.

Of course, Seles was no pusher and was more aggressive on serve return than Nadal is against Graf but in essence Seles pounded Steffi's BH with forceful shots until it caved.
 
#31 ·
I agree with the TS. The Graf-Seles rivalry is probably the closest to the Federer-Nadal rivalry. Of course, there would be differences, but it was not the point of this thread to say that these rivalries are completely the same.

Btw, who can we consider as Hingis' main rival? Was it Venus?
 
#32 ·
Another huge common point which hasn't been quoted is the similarity between the exchanges.

First Graf had a better serve and could make more points with that.

Then Graf tried to make huge forehands to make winners
... but Seles picked back everything who knows how
... and put the exchange back to Graf's backhand where she was totally neutralized.

Seles had as good a backhand and a forehand, which was completely opposite to Graf.

Then the exchange was like that : huge forehand to try a winner by Graf, go back to the backhand, neutralization.

It was very long exchanges, totally exhausting for the spectator, several times in an exchange you thought Seles would be beaten but she caught the ball back

... and then, as I told you, huge shout, extremely shrill
... and the point was over : winner for Seles or Graf taking it back into the net.

Also the most similar to the Nadal-Federer exchanges.
 
#36 ·
Wrong !

Graf had almost ONLY a sliced backhand, and had a lot of difficulty to improve her lifted backhand.

And Seles totally neutralized her on that shot.

Another common point : I remember that the opposition between Graf's and Seles's fans was very similar.
Elegance and style against bravery and youth ...

And I remember that we had the same impressions that history was under-making like now.

Graf was on her way to become the "best player ever" before Seles,
but the young Serbian girl was destroying that scheme and could impose HERSELF as the best player in history.

We nearly had the impression that it might be the two best players in history, quite like now.
 
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