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Thread: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!) Reply to Thread
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09-12-2006 04:11 AM
Deboogle!.
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

ah i see. well, maybe.

I think Robby can do an awful lot better than Brad anyway
09-12-2006 03:55 AM
idolwatcher1
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

if Robby heard bad things about Brad FROM Andy, and Robby agreed that those things weren't cool, then he probably wouldn't even consider having Brad as one of his coaches... that's basically what I was getting at...
09-12-2006 03:45 AM
Deboogle!.
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by idolwatcher1
Well, anyway, knowing the Gilbert/Roddick history, you're absolutely right... it would be awkward (for all) if he suddenly was Robby's coach. Robby may even know things about their history that we don't know, so it's possible that he wouldn't even consider having Gilbert coach him for a number of different reasons.
I honestly don't think that'd be relevant at all. If Robby felt that Brad was the right coach for him and everything else worked out (money, scheduling, money, money, money.... Brad), i think the deal would be done. I don't think the fact that Andy and Brad parted on less than happy terms would be relevant at all
09-11-2006 11:59 PM
idolwatcher1
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veruka
Thanks for the welcome idolwatcher! It's good to be here. I have to say, I've thought about the possibility of a Gilbert / Ginepri matchup too. Chalk me up as one who is bothered by the thought of Gilbert coaching a non-American.

That said, I really have to wonder exactly what led to the split between Gilbert and Roddick, and whether or not that would come in to play if he were to try to coach one of the other guys in that clique. Given the rivalry between Gilbert and Roddick, I think there's no question that split was more than a "it's time for us to move on" kind of thing. While both have pretty much avoided airing it out in public, you've got to figure that Roddick has been more vocal about his thoughts on Brad privately. Would those sentiments cancel out any of the confidence boosting measures that someone like Gilbert could have on Robby?

In my perfect dream world ... they say that Darren Cahill guy is available now. I think it's more likely that he'll give up coaching with Andre in retirement. But if he were to make the choice to stay involved with tennis, given the core similarities between Andre's game and Robby's game, I think Cahill could do GREAT things with Robby's game.
The thought of Gilbert coaching Robby entered my head when I read the Tennis magazine article written by him called, "Learning from Robby Ginepri." I liked the attention he gave to Robby's game and his insight. BUT... after reading what you said, and thinking more about it, it probably IS best that Gilbert stay away from Robby.

First of all, in the Cincy match, Murray didn't challenge the line call when Robby thought he won the first set 6-4... that is, until he looked up at Gilbert and he was signalling him to challenge the call... Who's playing the match anyway?? Gilbert or Murray??? And to think that Robby could've dismissed Murray in straight sets (6-4,6-2) if Gilbert hadn't involved himself in the match...

Well, anyway, knowing the Gilbert/Roddick history, you're absolutely right... it would be awkward (for all) if he suddenly was Robby's coach. Robby may even know things about their history that we don't know, so it's possible that he wouldn't even consider having Gilbert coach him for a number of different reasons.

There is a better coach out there for Robby, but hopefully, Robby can do well in his upcoming tournaments whatever his situation may be! Let's go Robby!!
09-11-2006 08:31 PM
Deboogle!.
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

Yep, I agree. But I also think that even substantively, I think Brad is overrated in some ways

Hopefully Robby can find that right person and move forward
09-11-2006 02:59 PM
Veruka
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

Re: Gilbert -- I think the biggest problem with him as a coach is that he cannot handle not being in the spotlight. In many ways, I think he desires to overshadow the player he's coaching, rather than to support him. If you look at some of the very best coaches in tennis - they aren't just satisfied in the shadows, they desire to be there. You only heard about coaches like Tim Gullickson, Darren Cahill, and Brian Barker when the players working with them put the spotlight on them. They know they're job is to make a player look good - not to make themselves look good. With an individual sport like tennis, the ego of a player is undoubtedly going to come into play. And it's going to do nothing but damage that player if he feels he's competing with his own coach for accolades.

The most important thing that Robby needs? A coach that will not just recognize that his not defending his points at the Open this year will hurt his ranking, but will remind him repeatedly that his lack of points early in this season will make it that much easier for him to gain a lot of points early on next year!
09-11-2006 02:45 PM
Deboogle!.
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veruka
I have to say, I've thought about the possibility of a Gilbert / Ginepri matchup too. Chalk me up as one who is bothered by the thought of Gilbert coaching a non-American.
I see what you mean.... but I am one who thinks Brad was incredibly overrated with Andy. We are now seeing that some of the things that we know Brad put into Andy's game - standing far back on the 2nd serve return, implementing the slice BH a lot - are some of the very things that have caused him loads of problems over the past year. I don't think we'll ever know what happened between the two of them, I think it was many different things from money to personality, etc. I know there is a lot of sentiment from Andy's side that Brad wasn't constant enough for him - he really needs someone to push him hard and Brad wasn't there enough to do that (whether that is true, again, we have no way to know) - but we can plainly see that Andy did not start getting into really good physical condition until he fired Brad and hired Dean - someone who really got him going in the fitness department. I doubt that's all coincidental.

So, for those reasons and others, I have real reservations about Brad working with Robby. I think Brad's the right coach - for the right player. I think for a guy like Andre, he was great. Because Andre had the tools, and he had Gil Reyes, so Brad could come in and just polish. For a guy like Andy who really needed some of the fundamentals, Brad swooped in, gave him some quick fixes that helped over the short-term, but really proved to be a hindrance for him a couple years down the road.

I agree with you that a guy more like Darren Cahill might be good for him. Or even a guy like Goldfine or Annacone, real hard workers who are supportive and push their players hard. As we've seen recently, good coaching can come from the most surprising and unexpected places, so hopefully Robby finds someone who will work out well for him, even if it might seem to us as an odd choice at the outset. The indoor season is coming and Robby's game is suited well for that, so hopefully he can post some good results!!
09-11-2006 02:31 PM
Veruka
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by idolwatcher1
Hi Veruka, welcome to the Robby forum! I remember thinking that if Brad Gilbert were looking to coach someone it should be Robby... but then about that time, he decided to coach Andy Murray, who had already grabbed a title this year and was on his way up... I think he would have been a nice seasoned coach for Robby...
Thanks for the welcome idolwatcher! It's good to be here. I have to say, I've thought about the possibility of a Gilbert / Ginepri matchup too. Chalk me up as one who is bothered by the thought of Gilbert coaching a non-American.

That said, I really have to wonder exactly what led to the split between Gilbert and Roddick, and whether or not that would come in to play if he were to try to coach one of the other guys in that clique. Given the rivalry between Gilbert and Roddick, I think there's no question that split was more than a "it's time for us to move on" kind of thing. While both have pretty much avoided airing it out in public, you've got to figure that Roddick has been more vocal about his thoughts on Brad privately. Would those sentiments cancel out any of the confidence boosting measures that someone like Gilbert could have on Robby?

In my perfect dream world ... they say that Darren Cahill guy is available now. I think it's more likely that he'll give up coaching with Andre in retirement. But if he were to make the choice to stay involved with tennis, given the core similarities between Andre's game and Robby's game, I think Cahill could do GREAT things with Robby's game.
09-11-2006 05:58 AM
idolwatcher1
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

In his press conference, Robby stated that he thinks he is playing just as good, if not better, than he had this time last year... so just for the heck of it, I decided to post Robby's Haas 2005 match stats and compare them to this year's...

Year ...........................................*2005*....................*2006*
1st Serve %............................- 92 of 163 = 56 %...- 95 of 154 = 62 %
Aces.......................................-20.......................- 15
Double Faults..........................- 4........................- 3
Unforced Errors.......................- 56......................- 42
Winning % on 1st Serve...........- 65 of 92 = 71 %....- 72 of 95 = 76 %
Winning % on 2nd Serve.......... - 37 of 75 = 49 %...- 32 of 59 = 54 %
Winners (Including Service)......- 65......................- 55
Receiving Points Won...............- 55 of 157 = 35 %...- 53 of 174 = 30 %
Break Point Conversions............- 6 of 13 = 46 %.....- 4 of 11 = 36 %
Net Approaches.......................- 13 of 31 = 42 %....- 40 of 59 = 68 %
Total Points Won......................- 157....................- 157
Fastest Serve..........................- 127 MPH..............- 125 MPH
Average 1st Serve Speed..........- 111 MPH.............- 111 MPH
Average 2nd Serve Speed.........- 91 MPH...............- 89 MPH

These stats would appear to support Robby's statement... he dramatically improved his Net Approaches at this year's US Open compared to last year's... he had a +9 winners-UEs difference in 2005, and had a +13 winners-UEs difference... everything else is about the same
09-11-2006 05:24 AM
idolwatcher1
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veruka
I think he's on the right track -- he just needs one more ingredient. It seems to work for Mardy Fish to have Todd Martin as a seasoned coach, and someone else to travel with him. It really seems to be working for Andy Roddick to have Jimmy Connors has a seasoned coach and his brother as a travelling coach. Sounds like Diego would work well as a travelling coach ... not Robby just needs to find someone more seasoned to the ATP than Jerry Baskin to be his seasoned coach.
Hi Veruka, welcome to the Robby forum! I remember thinking that if Brad Gilbert were looking to coach someone it should be Robby... but then about that time, he decided to coach Andy Murray, who had already grabbed a title this year and was on his way up... I think he would have been a nice seasoned coach for Robby...
09-11-2006 05:17 AM
idolwatcher1
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

We should keep in mind that Robby's best results this year came when he had no coach at all, so even if Diego does close to nothing, we can't assume that's a bad thing just yet...

I think Robby feels that his technique and shot-making ability is quite proficient, but that his biggest weakness is how he deals with the mental aspect of the game... constructing points in order to win them and staying positive within himself so that he is relaxed and focused enough to play his best.

I've long had the feeling that Francisco was not on the same page as Robby and was perhaps unintentionally overwhelming him with too many things to focus on (to the detriment of the big picture)... so that when he was out there playing a match, he was thinking about too many things at once. In tennis, you only have so much time to react... every reaction requires a quick decision, so you can't be overwhelmed out there.

It's long been stated that "your first instincts are usually right", but it sounds to me like Robby was perhaps taken out of that mode and was overthinking/overanalyzing what he should do, and making too many mistakes (unforced errors) as a result...
09-11-2006 01:15 AM
Veruka
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennispimpess
Is it true Diego Ayala is his coach now? I mean they grew up together. Sounds like just a buddy to have around. I think it would be better if he got a real coach.
Then again, he played some of his best tennis this year at the US Open
I think he's on the right track -- he just needs one more ingredient. It seems to work for Mardy Fish to have Todd Martin as a seasoned coach, and someone else to travel with him. It really seems to be working for Andy Roddick to have Jimmy Connors has a seasoned coach and his brother as a travelling coach. Sounds like Diego would work well as a travelling coach ... not Robby just needs to find someone more seasoned to the ATP than Jerry Baskin to be his seasoned coach.
09-10-2006 04:20 PM
Pepper LaRue
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

Change is always for the better. I hope he can take some positives from this US Open run and keep improving.
09-10-2006 07:33 AM
rege
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

Below is a little bit of Robby's press conference after his match against Goldstein...

Sounds like Diego isn't a total push-over... also sounds like Robby might have felt Francisco was having him work on too many aspects of his game at one time.

It will be interesting to see how this is going to play out. Teams often fire their coaches when the team isn't playing well... it's not necessarily the coach's fault, but a coaching change is sometimes all it takes to turn a team around.


Q. Is Diego going to be a permanent thing?
ROBBY GINEPRI: I'm not sure. He's just temporary right now. We've been working pretty hard the last few weeks. I enjoy having someone that I've known for a while, and he's a good friend of mine. So he can push me, we can have good times as well.

Q. Do you see a possibility of being back in Francisco.
ROBBY GINEPRI: You know, I don't want to burn any bridges with anybody. He's done a lot for me. I'll always remember him. If we cross paths down the road, then so be it.

Q. Is there a different emphasis on what you want to do on the court with Diego than there is with Francisco ?
ROBBY GINEPRI: No, it's me finding my game again. It's me, you know, with the mental side. I have to be more positive out there, just kind of go with the flow, simplify things. That's what works for me. I don't want to get too carried away and listen to, you know, 20 different things to be working on. When I'm playing my best, I'm just out there and trusting my instincts.
09-09-2006 07:05 PM
Pepper LaRue
Re: "Go 'head, bite the big Apple..." - Rolling Stones (Robby at the USOpen!)

It concerned me when he said in one of his US Open interviews that Diego was just like him. I think he needs a real coach who is going to push him and not a buddy who is as laid back as he is.
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