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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-24-2008 11:53 PM
Action Jackson
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vale View Post
Why would anyone want them all to be humbled? Del Potro is just a kid, the second tier of Calleri, Acasuso et al. have made sacrifices to play for their country and frequently got criticized in the process, and Nalbandian is our best player, he┤s the main reason we┤ve reached two DC finals and unfortunately he┤s also responsible for disrupting the team┤s unity.
Del Potro made a particular decision of going to Shanghai when clearly not fit and this had a negative impact on the rest of the team and Nalbandian let him know that. Del Potro didn't understand what this meant, as he will have plenty of opportunities to make a Masters Cup, but not many to win this event at home.

Calleri and Acasuso have nothing to be criticised for, they tried their best.
11-24-2008 04:12 PM
Vale
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMK is Innocent View Post
I hope del Potro and the others have been humbled by this experience.
Why would anyone want them all to be humbled? Del Potro is just a kid, the second tier of Calleri, Acasuso et al. have made sacrifices to play for their country and frequently got criticized in the process, and Nalbandian is our best player, he┤s the main reason we┤ve reached two DC finals and unfortunately he┤s also responsible for disrupting the team┤s unity.
11-24-2008 02:50 AM
Action Jackson
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

I hope del Potro and the others have been humbled by this experience, this generation have pretty much lost their chance to win a DC, if they don't do it within 2 seasons, then it's not happening.

jayjay is a he.
11-23-2008 10:34 PM
Vale
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

Mancini has just resigned!
I hope Jaite might be persuaded to take over...
11-23-2008 09:29 PM
Vale
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

I respect Jayjay┤s loyalty, she┤s a true fan, and I agree with much of what she says. Nalbandian is undoubtedly our most important DC player, because he┤s the best Argentine player and because he┤s set his heart upon winning the Cup. In the past, the lack of other top players has made him play three days running, even though physically he was never able to play more than two rubbers well. (This time he couldn┤t keep up his good form even for the doubles match.)

I believe that Del Potro was justified in going to Shanghai. He reached his current ranking mainly because he had no points to defend, but who knows if he┤ll be in the top eight in the future? He didn┤t go for the money but because he couldn┤t let this chance go by. Even if he hadn┤t played, he was already burnt out at the end of the year, and his toenails problem is no worse today than three weeks ago. (Btw, Verdasco had the same problem and played DC heavily bandaged).

The other Argentine players are all going through a bad patch in their careers and their rankings have slumped, so all they could do was play their best and pray that it would be sufficient.

In this context, when JMDP lost on Friday what was needed was a supportive attitude from Nalbandian and Mancini, the mainstays of the group, to make the other players feel more confident and to keep up the team spirit. Instead, Nalbandian vented his anger on the team. Once a model of unity, it┤s not united anymore...

The Spanish team was an example of fair play and sportsmanship and the captain made each of his players feel special. Verdasco said "Emilio gets into your head so then you play two against one".

This time the crowd was a bit better behaved and they ended up applauding the winners. Feliciano also led the 1000 Spaniards present to cheer for Argentina!

I was pleased to see that Acasuso got the biggest cheer during the prize-giving. Both in 2006 and today he had to face the hardest matches of his life with little chance of winning, and still he put up a good fight.
11-23-2008 09:00 PM
cobalt60
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

What a shame overall though. Agree with all you said GW.
11-23-2008 08:09 PM
martine2
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

I feel so sorry for them but yes, credit to the Spaniards who played real good.

Too bad, but that's the way it is
11-23-2008 05:27 PM
Action Jackson
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

Spain were too good and they played like a unit that cared for each other.

Yes, it's disappointing for Argentina to lose this, when everything is in their favour. Del Potro chose not to rest the toe problem that he had in Vienna in pursuit of Shanghai, when he has plenty of opportunities to make the Masters, he had enough chances to seal the deal.

Couldn't get the doubles happening and Chucho tried his heart out, but couldn't get it done.

Clearly the better team won.
11-23-2008 01:49 PM
cobalt60
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

I have been remiss and so busy with work ( yes I am actually at work today) and life in general that I have not been able to watch any of the matches. I just hope they can pull it out. This will be difficult but you never know.
Vamos Argentina!!
11-23-2008 10:06 AM
martine2
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

Nobody can be blamed.

Not Mancini, because he did what was the best for the team in his opinion (and I agree with him)
I like Calleri a lot, but for a singles match that could go to 5 sets, he isn't the best option, so imo Lulli was right to get Chucho in the team.

Not Delpo because he didn't play well on Friday. He was under pressure and he's only human. Moreover it was thanks to his performance last time that Argentina is there in the final.

Not Nalby for letting his emotions go. Better let it out then bottle it all up. But now he shouldn't look back, only forward to what's coming today.

This DC is very important to them and the pressure must be enormous and then this kinda thing happens.

Hope they go for it today and win the whole thing!
11-23-2008 03:16 AM
Action Jackson
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

Nothing more to add jayjay.

Nalbandian has been the backbone of the Argentine team pretty much since he came into it. He is always there when he is fit to play.

The fiasco with Mar del Plata well that's a distraction and this stuff happens within a team environment, better getting the shit out of the system and than bottling it up and then move forward.
11-23-2008 03:10 AM
jayjay
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vale View Post
I┤m angry too, but for different reasons. There are widespread rumours that Nalbandian fought with poor Del Potro yesterday, he then had a heated argument with Mancini regarding who should be the other singles player on Sunday, and today he had a fight with Calleri. I┤m fed up with this diva attitude. He then stomped off and shirked the press conference and will be fined 10,000 dollars by the ITF. I think Del Potro needs lots of support from fellow players and the media right now when he must be feeling like hell, and Calleri played better than Nalbandian today, above his ranking, so what┤s DN┤s beef anyway?
Rumours can sometimes be just that, rumours. And it's not as if the press are not always looking to create a conflict where there isn't one when things go wrong. You know, as well as I, it's always the same in Argentina - when we lose when we don't expect to, there are always stories of "internal conflict" being the reason - when in truth, sometimes it may have been the case, and in other cases not at all.

No one has done more to win Argentina a Davis Cup than David Nalbandian. He has gone beyond the call and obligation of duty to make himself available, to schedule around DC - so that he can be ready for DC, and not even his own ambitions on tour. Other players have not done this, not to say they don't care about playing for Argentina, they do, but no one wants it more than Nalbandian, no one, at all.

If he is angry/frustrated/disappointed, and has lashed out, then really who can blame him? He is a human being, and he has carried the burden of this team for many years, when he shouldn't have had to. Unlike many other nations, we have had countless players in the top 20/top30-50 who should have been able to contribute more than they had done.

Instead, it has always only been Nalbandian who can win any big match with clarity. Even when Chela was asked to beat some Croatian mug, he made an unbelievable meal of it. In Russia in the DC Final, Nalbandian produced two outstanding displays to win us two points and where were the other three just to help to produce one? They couldn't do it.

Now, here again, Nalbandian wins his singles with ease and then watches Del Potro fall apart literally and figuratively. Then he makes his own errors in the 3rd set TB in doubles, knowing that if we don't win that match, he may not get back on court again in a live rubber (or at all, because I doubt very much he, or any of them will actually play a dead rubber).

The frustration and anger at himself, at the situation and at the rest of the team must be incredibly hard to keep a lid on, and we know Nalbandian has never had any problem in letting people know how he feels.

And we're not even taking into account his already justified disgust that the tie was not in Cordoba, where it deserved to be, for him more than anyone else. Far from calling Nalbandian a diva, he has been anything but a diva in his Davis Cup career. He has won countless ties, on his own, and shared the joy with team mates who did nothing for him.

Really if there is any justice, Acasuso will find a way to win tomorrow and offer something to Nalbandian that these bunch of players (and we are talking about many of them - not just the current 3 others in the squad) have never done so far, a helping hand. Other than JMDP's performances against Russia, Nalbandian has been fighting on his own in search of history for Argentina.

This should have been a weekend of great celebration, instead it may turn out to be a severe humbling, and if Nalbandian is letting out anger behind the scenes, I can't blame him one bit. What more could he have done? Nothing. What more could others have done? Lots.

It's not a case of looking to blame anyone, but let's not go around criticising Nalbandian for being a crushed human being. He must be devastated, and his devastation is greater than any of the other players or any of the fans. He has sacrificed more for this, than any of them, or any of us. If he wants to lash out, he is entitled, I would have done a long time ago given how he has had to single handedly carry a nation with players who have been good enough for him not to have needed to be so responsible for the success/failure of the Davis Cup side.
11-23-2008 03:10 AM
Action Jackson
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Getta View Post
Do you really think that Chucho is a better singles player than Gordo* on that surface?

*I mean a "normal" Gordo, not a "shattered" one... You seem to be missing my point. Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't know.
As Vale said Calleri was the better player in the doubles match, second of all. Chucho matches up better with Ferrer than Calleri does, therefore if there is to be a replacement then Acasuso is a better fit than what Calleri is, unless Ferrer is substituted for Verdasco, then this is less clear.

If you want to make a point and not be misunderstood, then come out and say it.
11-23-2008 02:46 AM
Getta
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMK is Innocent View Post
Lucas Arnold shouldn't have been picked, considering Chucho is likely to be playing the 4th rubber, they need the flexibility of 4 singles players, especially with del Potro's condition.
Do you really think that Chucho is a better singles player than Gordo* on that surface?

*I mean a "normal" Gordo, not a "shattered" one... You seem to be missing my point. Perhaps I'm wrong, I don't know.
11-23-2008 02:32 AM
Action Jackson
Re: 2008 Vamos Argentina Davis Cup Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Getta View Post
I wonder if Luli has the balls to admit publicly that he made a fatally flawed decision.

In case you didn't understand my coded message, I'm very angry right now.
Lucas Arnold shouldn't have been picked, considering Chucho is likely to be playing the 4th rubber, they need the flexibility of 4 singles players, especially with del Potro's condition.

Win as a team and lose as a team, looking for scapegoats is easy. They are expected to win the event, but pressure does things to people.
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