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  Topic Review (Newest First)
10-17-2005 06:50 PM
Neely
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

You're right, kek. I've taken a look at the rules and it states that a medical time-out can be approved "for each medical condition". So if you have wrist, shoulder, elbow, ankle, back and knee problems you could theoretically be awarded a time-out each time, if I am right about that. So if Andreev first got treatment for his knee and then for his back, it could have been legal.
10-17-2005 05:57 PM
kek
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

If I'm not mistaken, you can have multiple injury timeouts in a match but you can't be treated for the same injury. So I can have a timeout for an elbow for 3 minutes and then the next 3 minutes use it for a shoulder injury for a total of 6 minutes plus add a bathroom timeout etc...for a total of 10 minutes.

Mary Pierce did this exactly in the US Open semi's.
10-17-2005 02:45 PM
Neely
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinuera
I am also not proud of Igor doing these time-outs, but its allowed
it was allowed, but I don't think it is allowed by the rules because there is only medical timeout per match. That's what I'm saying and why this match has a bad aftertaste for me.
10-17-2005 02:02 PM
rrfnpump
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kfh_9118
Sorry if I offended you in many ways. As I said, this is purely how I feel about the match, nothing against you really. Unfortunately, from this match, I would never never able to like or cheer for Igor again. I thought I really dislike Hewitt, now after this, I know it's nothing compared to how I feel about Igor now

Btw, I also like some of your favourites, eg. Tommy
I dont feel offended
thats a discussion and everybody has his opinion. I dont like discussions where everybody has the same opinion....

I never said Igor won this match; Kiwi lost it and thats the way it was
I am also not proud of Igor doing these time-outs, but its allowed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
I don't blame an away crowd for cheering maybe a few times on important points (break point, 30-30, deuce) during a match when a player hits a first serve fault; this can happen in many places if the home crowd is eager for their own player to win. But applauding first serve faults for three seconds when the foreign player is missing a serve at 15-0 or 15-15 is pretty stupid.
As a pro player you have to live with biased crowds. Thats one part of tennis. I dont say I find it good what the crowd in Moscow did, but its understandable. Patriotism is a big topic in Russia.
There was a report on the WTA board from an ITF tournamnet in China where foreign players were treated really bad by the crowd.
Or imagine Ivan Ljubicic would play an important match against Djokovic in Serbia.
Think about all the fans from Chile during world team cup; The emotional Sania Mirza fans

YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT AS A PRO!!!!

Quote:
Again, if Kiwi had been strong enough he had won no matter what would have happened yesterday. But this match was still not clean and a good chair umpire with authoriy, not like Grillotti, should have dealt otherwise according to the rules.
There are many umpires who are useless. who never overrule. who never do something against bad behavior. thats a big problem I agree
10-17-2005 01:42 PM
Neely
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG
I always heard you can take one 3min timeout each set or so, but not 5 minutes, then 10 minutes and so on.
Normally it's one medical time (examination and 3 minute treatment) each match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG
Robredo took that unfair timeout last year at bp for Gaudio and won the match. I think many posters attacked him after that, but if you compare this to what Andreev did ... and Andreev is even the hero now for the majority here.
Many people attacked Robredo because they thought he faked it. But unlike Andreev getting treatment here and there more than once, the timeout itself by Robredo was the first of the match and according to rules he may take it anytime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG
There is actually a chance for a RUS vs GER Daviscup QF. Would be nice to get a revenge there.
would be away, right? Not good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG
There are m any examples that a fair cheering for the home player is possible. Just look at Liberec in Daviscup few weeks ago.
I don't blame an away crowd for cheering maybe a few times on important points (break point, 30-30, deuce) during a match when a player hits a first serve fault; this can happen in many places if the home crowd is eager for their own player to win. But applauding first serve faults for three seconds when the foreign player is missing a serve at 15-0 or 15-15 is pretty stupid.
10-17-2005 01:30 PM
Neely
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinuera
so Kiwi should not play French Open as well?
You can't compare a Grand Slam to an optional even like Moscow in a week with another two tournaments of similiar kind. There are certainly more possibilities to replace Moscow if he doesn't want to come anymore again next year. Also regarding French Open, we have to admit that Kiwi has to blame himself a lot to cause that behaviour of the French crowd back then as he wasn't the most friendly player in that match either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinuera
Come on, girls
its not very convincing to say crowd and Igor's timeout were the reasons for Kiwi's loss. He had many chances and just missed them. It would be not good if a former Top10 player would be irritated by a biased crowd and by a time-out taken....
No, the real problem is his mental fragility! He has to work on that. All Germans are head-cases
The main reason was Kiwi himself because 4-0 has to be carried home, no matter when they start playing again and whatever Andreev is doing and had he been strong enough he would have won it easily. But I still had preferred a normal loss without bad taste and that's what bothers me. Also everybody seems to take it at the most normal thing in the world if Andreev leaves the court for 10 minutes despite getting treatment before already and when Roddick did the same at the Australian Open the whole board slaughtered him for his 10 minute break.
Again, if Kiwi had been strong enough he had won no matter what would have happened yesterday. But this match was still not clean and a good chair umpire with authoriy, not like Grillotti, should have dealt otherwise according to the rules.
10-17-2005 12:38 PM
kfh_9118
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinuera
I dont know how long that time-out lasted, cause I left watching at 75 30, because I was sure he would win it anyway; when I came back it was 4-4...



so Kiwi should not play French Open as well?

Come on, girls
its not very convincing to say crowd and Igor's timeout were the reasons for Kiwi's loss. He had many chances and just missed them. It would be not good if a former Top10 player would be irritated by a biased crowd and by a time-out taken....
No, the real problem is his mental fragility! He has to work on that. All Germans are head-cases
I agree with you that Kiwi has a mental problem, and maybe it costs him the title. What I don't like is how Igor tried everything he could to get back into the match, and for me, it's not a fair game.

I am not sure if you watched the match or not. I watched the entire match through a very good live-stream, hence I saw every moment in that match. First time out from Igor was in the second set when the score was 0-2. He called the trainer for his knee problem I suppose. First, unless it's really really serious, I don't think it's fair to call a trainer not during a break between 2 games. In my opinion, he should has played another game before calling for a trainer. We know what happened next, Kiwi won the next 2 games, and then somehow he lost his serve to make the score 1-4. Then Igor called for another time-out to threat his back, and then go to the bathroom for god knows how long. In total, I guess it's about 10 minutes break at that score. Kiwi did ask the chair umpire about the length of the break and I don't know what is the rule, but definitely the break should not be allowed for that long. Igor should have been disqualified or at least penalised a game or points. Instead, the umpire lets it happened and ignore Kiwi's concern. This clearly was intended to break Kiwi's momentum by Igor in my eyes and too bad Kiwi let it happened.

I know Kiwi also took a time-out during the match, but the timing was between second and third set. We all know that the players are given a longer break before the final set and if you add up the injury time allowed to be taken by Kiwi, he had clearly not extended the time out allowed to be taken. Again, I am not too sure about the rule, hence I might be wrong.

What really upset me as well was how Igor claimed that he was injured and it was not shown at all in the way he played. Except from several occasion when he missed a shot or lost a point, he touched his back tried to tell us that he has a back problem. Then, the next point, he will play unbelievable point and won it. Not sure about you, but I clearly saw this as faking an injury. I can't believe the way he reacted after winning the match, I mean, how can you still be happy knowing the way you tried to win the match

Sorry if I offended you in many ways. As I said, this is purely how I feel about the match, nothing against you really. Unfortunately, from this match, I would never never able to like or cheer for Igor again. I thought I really dislike Hewitt, now after this, I know it's nothing compared to how I feel about Igor now

Btw, I also like some of your favourites, eg. Tommy
10-17-2005 10:59 AM
JMG
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

It was probably even a bit more difficult than in Roland Garros with that crowd. I really thought that the fans in Moscow are fair, it was really disappointing. I couldn't believe it when I saw that the game was suspended for ages at 4-0 and then again at 4-1. I must admit that I couldn't watch the stream with good quality, but even I could see how Andreev jumped around after his "injury" timeouts. I always heard you can take one 3min timeout each set or so, but not 5 minutes, then 10 minutes and so on.

Fitness is imo part of that game and if the 3min timeout is not enough, you have to pay for it.

Robredo took that unfair timeout last year at bp for Gaudio and won the match. I think many posters attacked him after that, but if you compare this to what Andreev did ... and Andreev is even the hero now for the majority here.

There is actually a chance for a RUS vs GER Daviscup QF. Would be nice to get a revenge there.

And I hope they behave better in St. Petersburg.

There are m any examples that a fair cheering for the home player is possible. Just look at Liberec in Daviscup few weeks ago.
10-17-2005 10:32 AM
rrfnpump
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaDiCaLgIrL♥TR
Yep I know his mentality damn sucked and he ruined his chance but I'm still too angry at your fave.You know he has taken timeout 3 times.(Yahoo news and Kiwi's journal mentioned that)It's so disturbed. I at most accept the first time but NEVER stand the last time for requesting off the court to a bathroom.

I like you,Kiwi,Rainer,Jarkko,Paradorn and some in your sig but Andreev.Never.

I can understand you of course. I would probably be angry too if Kiwi had played another player I dont like and had lost that way.
but thats tennis. look at Mary Pierce. as long as such time-outs are allowed everybody can use them! Tennis is more than just playing, its also a huge mental thing these days.
Kiwi got irritated by the time-outs. Federer would not have been. thats the difference.

BTW, I like you too
10-17-2005 10:10 AM
I♥PsY@Mus!c
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Yep I know his mentality damn sucked and he ruined his chance but I'm still too angry at your fave.You know he has taken timeout 3 times.(Yahoo news and Kiwi's journal mentioned that)It's so disturbed. I at most accept the first time but NEVER stand the last time for requesting off the court to a bathroom.

I like you,Kiwi,Rainer,Jarkko,Paradorn and some in your sig but Andreev.Never.
10-17-2005 06:56 AM
rrfnpump
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaDiCaLgIrL♥TR
lol so I should hate Kiwi as well?
I just know Andreev took a timeout for his left leg and off the court to the BATHROOM.BTW you actually didn't answer my question.
I dont know how long that time-out lasted, cause I left watching at 75 30, because I was sure he would win it anyway; when I came back it was 4-4...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
With playing another tournament next year, maybe he would play in a tournament then where the crowd is a bit more polite and appreciative to a non-Russian player and doesn't applaud EVERY, yes, really every serve fault of Kiefer for three seconds since the end of the 2nd set to the end of the match. To be honest, I was disappointed with this kind of behaviour because I thought the Muscovites have a bit more class than that. But nothing you can do about that, Andreev will have to pay his debt at some time too.
so Kiwi should not play French Open as well?

Come on, girls
its not very convincing to say crowd and Igor's timeout were the reasons for Kiwi's loss. He had many chances and just missed them. It would be not good if a former Top10 player would be irritated by a biased crowd and by a time-out taken....
No, the real problem is his mental fragility! He has to work on that. All Germans are head-cases
10-17-2005 01:00 AM
kiwiteami
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
With playing another tournament next year, maybe he would play in a tournament then where the crowd is a bit more polite and appreciative to a non-Russian player and doesn't applaud EVERY, yes, really every serve fault of Kiefer for three seconds since the end of the 2nd set to the end of the match. To be honest, I was disappointed with this kind of behaviour because I thought the Muscovites have a bit more class than that. But nothing you can do about that, Andreev will have to pay his debt at some time too.

Well now that I know more about what happenned,I can see why he lost.First everyone or almost was against him.You know the more I get to know him,the more I see that he does appreciate to have people,fans in his corner,cheering for him.He DOES need the support.I know that most people see him as a strong person,he is but he is sensitive too and if he saw that it was him vs the world,he had no support except for thomas well,he didn,t fight.I remember,in indianapolis,it was so hot,I went to his single match and then we went for coffee and then I was like..are you joking you have another match tonight? yes it was in doubles.He was all nice,smiling pLEASE please you have to come,you have to be there,for me,it is against Americans and everyone else will be cheering for them..please.Of course,I did go.He needs the support,he needs to hear his fans cheer for him.And yes Dani ,if Andreev did that to him..one day,he,ll pay.Kiefer has always revenge on his mind when he loses a match...remember this year,clement and only this week,Mayer..he won.I hope that he,ll have fans in madrid.
10-16-2005 10:21 PM
I♥PsY@Mus!c
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinuera
Kiwi took a 10 minutes time-out after 2nd set ..........
lol so I should hate Kiwi as well?
I just know Andreev took a timeout for his left leg and off the court to the BATHROOM.BTW you actually didn't answer my question.
10-16-2005 09:27 PM
Neely
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaDiCaLgIrL♥TR
Kiwi may play other tourney instead of this fucking shitty tourney next year.
With playing another tournament next year, maybe he would play in a tournament then where the crowd is a bit more polite and appreciative to a non-Russian player and doesn't applaud EVERY, yes, really every serve fault of Kiefer for three seconds since the end of the 2nd set to the end of the match. To be honest, I was disappointed with this kind of behaviour because I thought the Muscovites have a bit more class than that. But nothing you can do about that, Andreev will have to pay his debt at some time too.
10-16-2005 09:21 PM
Neely
Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

OMG, what a very bad way to lose a match.

Bavaria, that damn 7th title is a huge jinx for sure now. And building on finals losing streaks doesn't make it easier to win the next final. I can just hope some time he does it soon. It's nice to be in a final, but it sucks if you lose them the 8th time in a row already.

What can I say? I would like to think that this loss doesn't affect him, but I'm not sure about that.

A 4-0 lead just needs to be carried home, and he couldn't do it While guys like Ljubicic this week played their best tennis all time when the situation was huge, Kiwi got more and more intimidated as he saw that Andreev picked up his game and rallied back. Andreev's forehand became better and won him the match while Kiwi was following mainly the same game plan like earlier in the match when Andreev still gave him lots of easy unforced errors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinuera
Kiwi took a 10 minutes time-out after 2nd set ..........
His first timeout in the match to get his ankles re-taped again which is legitimate. Andreev was treated during games and offcourt how many times and how long? I counted more than one injury timeout, but if stupid Grillotti allows that, what can you do?
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