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Which of these compulsory 1000 level events would you drop

  • 05.03.2012 - Hard - BNP Paribas Open, Indian Wells, USA

    Votes: 10 7.0%
  • 23.03.2011 - Hard - Sony Ericsson Open, Miami, USA

    Votes: 16 11.3%
  • 01.05.2011 - Clay - Mutua Madrid Open, Madrid, Spain

    Votes: 15 10.6%
  • 08.05.2011 - Clay - Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome, Italy

    Votes: 10 7.0%
  • 08.08.2011 - Hard - Rogers Cup, Montreal, Canada

    Votes: 6 4.2%
  • 14.08.2011 - Hard - Western & Southern Open, Cincinnati, USA

    Votes: 20 14.1%
  • 09.10.2011 - Hard - Shanghai Rolex Masters, Shanghai, China

    Votes: 48 33.8%
  • 07.11.2011 - Hard - BNP Paribas Masters - Paris, France

    Votes: 17 12.0%

ATP-ITF Calendar/Schedule Suggestions, Shorter Season

94K views 1K replies 332 participants last post by  Johnny Groove 
#1 ·
My opinion on Clay court tennis is that it's great for the game especially leading upto Roland Garros but i feel there is to many all year round, i think some should be demoted to challengers as it gives an unfair advantage to your typical claycourter in terms of points and prize money.

I mean guys like Rusedski and Karlovic should start a campaign to have grass all year round like the clay tornys so they can climb the rankings because players such as Acasuso-Monaco-martin would come nowhere near the top 100 just my opinion what do you think???
 
#77 ·
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

No indoor is not a surface, but it's a specific part of the season that I used in my example, not only this, also in previous ones. It's not that hard to understand.
 
#78 ·
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Neely said:
No indoor is not a surface, but it's a specific part of the season that I used in my example, not only this, also in previous ones. It's not that hard to understand.
Playing at altitude is very specific as well, but I don't say Massu won the high altitude champs in Kitz.

Considering the court surface is important and that is exactly how I decided on how it comes to 5 and we have established that indoors as a surface doesn't exist. The surface is how it's decided more than whether it's indoors or outdoors. It does not change the fact that those 5 events are played on a hardcourt. A hardcourt is a hardcourt indoors or outdoors, so how is that incorrect?
 
#80 ·
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Seeing that GeorgeHitler tought less as a hour ago that there is only two Gold Series tournaments on clay with Kitzbuhel and Stuttgart Neely should take it for success that he knows now it is a four.
 
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#81 ·
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Hi, I'm Philippe,

I don't specifically have a problem with the number of clay court tournaments but I think the scheduling of clay court tournaments is appalling.

There should not be what is effectively a five-week (from start to finish) clay court season after Wimbledon (four if you don't include this current week where there are no tournaments).

Think about it...if somebody such as Gaudio or Puerta had no clay court tournaments to enter between the French Open and Bucharest (which starts the week after the US Open), then they would have 14 weeks to fully concentrate on grass court and hard court tournaments.

Think about conventional hardcourt players - this is what they have to endure for 15 consecutive weeks during the clay court and grass court seasons: they have to go through a 9 week claycourt season (when there are no hardcourt tournaments whatsoever) a 4-week grass court season (when there are no hardcourt tournaments whatsoever) and a further two weeks after Wimbledon in which there are also no hard court tournaments.

If Gaudio and Puerta faced this endeavour, they would be able to focus all their energies into performing well in the North American hard court season. As it stands, they might skip the grass court season, play four clay events and then play Montreal, Cincinnati, skip a week and then the US Open - and that is it.

If it was an 14-week exclusive grass and then hard court season, then they would play in more hard court events because they wouldn't have a choice - it is either that or a long rest (which would further damage their preperation for future tournaments). They would learn to value the hard court season more, have a greater quality of specifically-hardcourt preperation and this would improve their quality of play, and results, in the lead up to the US Open - which this stage of the season is all about.

As it is, clay court players are able to pick a schedule 'which suits them 100 per cent' whereas hard court players are not allowed this luxury for 15 consecutive weeks.
 
#82 · (Edited)
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

GeorgeWHitler said:
A hardcourt is a hardcourt indoors or outdoors, so how is that incorrect?
It's not incorrect.

Well, if you don't see why I put the indoor season in a single and extra category, well then let me reword my previous statement to question the significance of this statement of yours regarding the view it is presented:

GeorgeWHitler said:
- The majority of ISG events are on surfaces other than clay.
The majority of ISG events are on surfaces other than grass, other than carpet, too.

Considering we have 4 surfaces, and 4 out of 9 ISG events are played on clay, one surface of four in total, there is not much to complain about clay not getting enough respected.

The differentiation should not be whether slow or not, clay and non-clay as you put this numbers; at best, the events should be balanced between all four surfaces.
 
#83 ·
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

NATAS81 said:
Less hardcourt, more carpet.
Congrats, you got it.

To be totally correct put it as the following: less hardcourt, less clay, more carpet and more grass.
 
#85 · (Edited)
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

NATAS81 said:
A steady balance of all surfaces.
That's what I'm talking about and that's how my utopia of the perfect ATP Tour would look like.

Not the differentiation between non-clay and clay as George put it up in post #23 when saying "other than clay", "other than clay". Considering, as he noted himself, that we have four surfaces, 3 out 9 AMS and 4 out of 9 ISG events are a pretty good ratio for clay.
 
#87 ·
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

NATAS81 said:
Come to think of it, more clay, grass and hardcourt would also hurt China, Russia, etc.
lol, how do you mean that? :)
 
#88 ·
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

I'm not talking about indoor hardcourts and more of them on the schedule.

Russia, you have guys like Safin, Davydenko, Andreev who are used to indoor.

Russia doesn't offer a whole lot of tournaments of other surfaces, same with China, Japan.

It's like London switching over to clay, and Murray/Henman taking a liking to a different surface.

You would think Asia, as big as it is, would house more tournaments and hopefully they see it our way.
 
#89 ·
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Neely you must admit that you only wanting to fight for more grass and indoor tournaments :rolls:
 
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#90 · (Edited)
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Jogy said:
Neely you must admit that you only wanting to fight for more grass and indoor tournaments :rolls:
Sure, or do you have any reasons why there shouldn't be more grass events? At least in theory, even though it's in practise most likely not realisable to have a fair balance?

Oh, no wait!! I've got the answer, it's because Wimbledon and Roland Garros are so close to each other and playing more grass events way before or after Wimbledon wouldn't work because it would make Wimbledon less special. But why is the same done with with, for example, RG and the clay events spread over the whole year?
 
#91 ·
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Neely said:
Sure, or do you have any reasons why there shouldn't be more grass events? At least in theory, even though it's in practise most likely not realisable to have a fair balance?

Oh, no wait!! I've got the answer, it's because Wimbledon and Roland Garros are so close to each other and playing more grass events way before or after Wimbledon wouldn't work because it would make Wimbledon less special. But why is the same done with with, for example, RG and the clay events spread over the whole year?
Maybe because clay stays crappy all year long, and grass has to be seasoned during the summer? ;)
 
#92 ·
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

NATAS81 said:
Maybe because clay stays crappy all year long, and grass has to be seasoned during the summer? ;)
Sure, the maintenance problem with grass is given.
 
#93 · (Edited)
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

Neely said:
The majority of ISG events are on surfaces other than grass, other than carpet, too.
4 on clay and 5 on hardcourts, but there are major events on grass and carpet, so no it hasn't been totally neglected.

So your wording has changed now, since the conclusion that indoors isn't a specific surface.

Considering we have 4 surfaces, and 4 out of 9 ISG events are played on clay, one surface of four in total, there is not much to complain about clay not getting enough respected.
I still see you haven't tried to counteract the fact that 4 out of 14 of the biggest events are on clay, so this means 10 are on grass, carpet and hardcourt, the vast majority are on hardcourt, that is what it's about the Slams and TMS are the events that truly count, so yes 4 out of 14 is truly dominating.

The differentiation should not be whether slow or not, clay and non-clay as you put this numbers; at best, the events should be balanced between all four surfaces.
There isn't a way I put the numbers, as those numbers are factual and so is the surface representation, how you choose to read them is for your own interpretation.

Who is going to fund the development for extra grasscourts being laid down? Is it going to be with countries that they can grow them in greenhouses, when the weather is too harsh outside to maintain them all year around.

Since the tour shouldn't be concentrated only in certain places, there is a chance that certain places would have less opportunities to host events, and how is that beneficial, if more people want to see the game.
 
#94 ·
Re: SHOULD SOME CLAY COURT TOURNAMENTS BE TAKEN FROM ATP SCHEDULE

cleverdutchclogs said:
As it is, clay court players are able to pick a schedule 'which suits them 100 per cent' whereas hard court players are not allowed this luxury for 15 consecutive weeks.
Another myth and why. There are 4 weeks at the start of the year to play on hardcourts, then after that a player could easily not play on clay until after Miami, as is there choice.

After RG, it's just as easy not to play on clay, it's something that Hewitt, Henman, Roddick, T.Johansson, PimPim and Agassi have managed to do quite successfully, so don't give me this line.

Then for 2 weeks after the US Open, there aren't clay events, but it's just as easy not to play on clay, but hey we can't have that, as it's only these players benefitting.

Too much tennis on hardcourts already has led to an increase in injuries, but that's probably another myth.
 
#95 ·
This should be the ATP calendar

Extending from the idea of an AMS event in Asia, I think there are many parts of the calendar which need to be changed. At the moment, many events are too close together. They're all in North America and Western Europe and some of them are back-to-back (eg Rome/Hamburg and Canada/Cincy).
Here is my proposal:

Jan AUSTRALIAN OPEN - Hard
Feb AMS Buenos Aires - Clay
Mar AMS Monte-Carlo - Clay
Apr AMS Rome - Clay
May ROLAND GARROS - Clay
Jun AMS Hamburg - Grass
Jun WIMBLEDON - Grass
Jul AMS Indian Wells - Hard
Aug AMS Miami - Hard
Sep US OPEN - Hard
Oct AMS Tokyo/Beijing/Moscow - Indoors :)
Oct AMS Madrid - Indoors
Nov TENNIS MASTERS CUP

Everyone complains about the short grass court season - the gap between RG and Wimby. So why not move the German Open from May to June and change the surface from clay to grass. This way, there can be at least 1 AMS grass event and the grass court season can last 1 extra week.

South America clearly loves tennis and they have plenty of players in the top 100. Surely Argentina can host an AMS event to help encourage Federer, Hewitt, Roddick and Safin to play in South America. It could be held at the end of February, say 4 weeks after the Aus Open.

IW and Miami are known as the 5th and 6th slams so, instead of scrapping them, let them replace Canada/Cincy in August.

:) And, off course, an AMS event in Asia should be held either in Japan or China or possibly Russia. But I think Spain deserves a Masters Series event so keep Madrid Indoors at the end of the season.
 
#359 ·
Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Extending from the idea of an AMS event in Asia, I think there are many parts of the calendar which need to be changed. At the moment, many events are too close together. They're all in North America and Western Europe and some of them are back-to-back (eg Rome/Hamburg and Canada/Cincy).
Here is my proposal:

Jan AUSTRALIAN OPEN - Hard
Feb AMS Buenos Aires - Clay
Mar AMS Monte-Carlo - Clay
Apr AMS Rome - Clay
May ROLAND GARROS - Clay
Jun AMS Hamburg - Grass
Jun WIMBLEDON - Grass
Jul AMS Indian Wells - Hard
Aug AMS Miami - Hard
Sep US OPEN - Hard
Oct AMS Tokyo/Beijing/Moscow - Indoors :)
Oct AMS Madrid - Indoors
Nov TENNIS MASTERS CUP

Everyone complains about the short grass court season - the gap between RG and Wimby. So why not move the German Open from May to June and change the surface from clay to grass. This way, there can be at least 1 AMS grass event and the grass court season can last 1 extra week.

South America clearly loves tennis and they have plenty of players in the top 100. Surely Argentina can host an AMS event to help encourage Federer, Hewitt, Roddick and Safin to play in South America. It could be held at the end of February, say 4 weeks after the Aus Open.

IW and Miami are known as the 5th and 6th slams so, instead of scrapping them, let them replace Canada/Cincy in August.

:) And, off course, an AMS event in Asia should be held either in Japan or China or possibly Russia. But I think Spain deserves a Masters Series event so keep Madrid Indoors at the end of the season.
I don't like it I think that it is to radical
Here is what I would like to see - I don't care about which countries would get big event and which won't because I think it doesn't matter to much looking at this problem as a big picture

AO
TMS Dubai or somewhere else in this region
TMS Miami
TMS Monte Carlo
TMS Rome
RG
TMS London
Wimbledon
TMS Canada
TMS Cincinatti
USOpen
TMS Madrid
TMS in South America
TMC held in different countries but avoiding Europe and North America(for example everyyear in different city - South America, Japan, China, Qatar etc)
I think it would be nice and easy do do
every continent would get TMS but without changing too much
I picked TMS in London because Quenns would be perfect to do this but it could be changed to TMS Halle
 
#96 ·
Re: This should be the ATP calendar

for some reason I like it. Hamburg as a grass tournament sounds cool. Buenos Aires is a good thing too.

However, if u want to move Indian Wells and Miami to the summer hard court cirquit, does this mean the traditional summer cirquit tournaments had to be moved to spring??
 
#100 ·
Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Not too bad- but to design a proper calendar you need the minority events included too and actually build from scratch. My calendar was this.

Week1- Adelaide, Doha
Week2- Auckland, Sydney
Week3-4 Australian Open
Week 5- Davis Cup World Group
Week 6- Beijing, Chennai
Week 7- Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City
Week 8- TMS Tokyo (hardcourt)
Week 9- Davis Cup Quarter Finals
Week 10- Vina del Mar, Valencia, Umag
Week 11- Palermo, Casablanca, Buenos Aires
Week 12- TMS Monte Carlo
Week 13- Barcelona, St Polten, Gstaad
Week 14- Bastad, Costa du Sauipe, Houston
Week 15- TMS Rome
Week 16- Kitzbuhel, Stuttgart, Acapulco
Week17-18 Roland Garros
Week 19- Newport, Liverpool (yeah go on bring ATP tennis here)
Week 20- TMS London
Week 21- TMS Halle
Week 22- s'hertogenbosch
week 23-24 Wimbledon
Week 25- Indianapolis
Week 26- Los Angeles, Miami ATP (not a TMS)
Week 27- Cincinnati ATP (no longer a TMS)
Week 28- Montreal/Toronto TMS
Week 29- Indian Wells TMS
Week 30- Washington DC
Week 31- New Haven
Week 32-33 US Open
Week 34- Marseille, Moscow
Week 35- Belgrade (new), Milan
Week 36- Davis Cup World Group playoffs/semis
Week 37- Lyon, Stockholm
Week 38- Rotterdam, St Petersburg
Week 39- TMS Madrid
Week 40- Basel, Vienna
Week 41- TMS Paris
Week 42-43- Tennis Masters Cup
Week 44- Davis Cup Final


Some will have complaints about this but I think it's fair. Less clay court events and also less hard court events, and more grass and a bit more indoor. That's how it should be.
 
#347 ·
Re: This should be the ATP calendar

Not too bad- but to design a proper calendar you need the minority events included too and actually build from scratch. My calendar was this.

Week1- Adelaide, Doha
Week2- Auckland, Sydney
Week3-4 Australian Open
Week 5- Davis Cup World Group
Week 6- Beijing, Chennai
Week 7- Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City
Week 8- TMS Tokyo (hardcourt)
Week 9- Davis Cup Quarter Finals
Week 10- Vina del Mar, Valencia, Umag
Week 11- Palermo, Casablanca, Buenos Aires
Week 12- TMS Monte Carlo
Week 13- Barcelona, St Polten, Gstaad
Week 14- Bastad, Costa du Sauipe, Houston
Week 15- TMS Rome
Week 16- Kitzbuhel, Stuttgart, Acapulco
Week17-18 Roland Garros
Week 19- Newport, Liverpool (yeah go on bring ATP tennis here)
Week 20- TMS London
Week 21- TMS Halle
Week 22- s'hertogenbosch
week 23-24 Wimbledon
Week 25- Indianapolis
Week 26- Los Angeles, Miami ATP (not a TMS)
Week 27- Cincinnati ATP (no longer a TMS)
Week 28- Montreal/Toronto TMS
Week 29- Indian Wells TMS
Week 30- Washington DC
Week 31- New Haven
Week 32-33 US Open
Week 34- Marseille, Moscow
Week 35- Belgrade (new), Milan
Week 36- Davis Cup World Group playoffs/semis
Week 37- Lyon, Stockholm
Week 38- Rotterdam, St Petersburg
Week 39- TMS Madrid
Week 40- Basel, Vienna
Week 41- TMS Paris
Week 42-43- Tennis Masters Cup
Week 44- Davis Cup Final


Some will have complaints about this but I think it's fair. Less clay court events and also less hard court events, and more grass and a bit more indoor. That's how it should be.
That sounds much better. More indoors and on grass and less on clay which is best for Tennis (espically British)
 
#101 ·
Re: This should be the ATP calendar

lorenz said:
Your proposition is very nice, especially (AMS Buenos Aires) ;)
but the players only have one moth of vacation. They need two moths at least.
Well, technically the vacation is in December.
There have always been tournaments in February but they were International Series. Off course, they can choose to skip the AMS event if they want to but usually Federer, Nadal, Roddick and Safin play at this time of year so I don't think it will be a problem.
 
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