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Thread: Who are the Clay court specialists? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
04-05-2013 02:21 PM
Caesar1844
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax View Post
did you actually watch him play during that US Open run? Dude was unplayable at times the way he was hitting his forehand - Fed was hopelessly overpowered in that US Open final and I instantly knew he was gonna lose when GOATro started redlining his game late in that match. When argie is truly ON, opponents may as well pack their stuff or just bow down and leave the court gracefully
Agree with all that.

Just saying he was incredibly lucky to redline his game during two weeks at the right time of year and win a major title. Hasn't managed to do it at any other quality tournament during his career.

This is the problem. He's low margin and patchy, and that is why he will always be dangerous to top players but never win another slam. He needs the stars to align, and keep aligning over and over for numerous matches in a row in order to win silverware. Most players of his type are lucky if it happens once in their career.
04-05-2013 02:17 PM
madmax
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
The bottom line is that Spudtro doesn't have what it takes to string matches together and win a top-tier tournament, other than those two weeks three years ago when he got phenomenally lucky.

He has always been able to fluke a match here and there over the top players. IW is just further evidence of that.
did you actually watch him play during that US Open run? Dude was unplayable at times the way he was hitting his forehand - Fed was hopelessly overpowered in that US Open final and I instantly knew he was gonna lose when GOATro started redlining his game late in that match. When argie is truly ON, opponents may as well pack their stuff or just bow down and leave the court gracefully
04-05-2013 02:16 PM
Ibracadabra
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Milos raonic and john isner. This much is for sure.
04-05-2013 02:03 PM
Roy Emerson
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
And the reason he had a hard draw is because he is shit and is seeded low.

"Not as bad as Ferrer" is hardly a ringing endorsement anyway.
Del Potro is a slam winner something Ferrer will never be.
04-05-2013 01:51 PM
Caesar1844
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
So the more matches he wins against the top players is just further proof of his "flukes". The logic, there is none. He strung several matches together at IW against the best players in the world and just fell short. Djokovic would struggle too if he had to beat Nadal, Murray and Federer to win a MS title.

Please explain to phenomenal luck you speak of in the 2009 USO. Murray's USO was far "luckier" so what would be the adjective you'd use for that title?
I have no real opinion on Murray's title, I lost interest in the tournament by about the fourth round.

Latter rounds of slams are so boring these days.
04-05-2013 12:51 PM
Nathaliia
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

cant believe i actually read this whole thread and only an odd post here or there replied to the original question

imo all these top players are pretty much all-rounders, their preferations might be just minor - yes, it's probably due to surface homogenization - times when the great clay champions, likes of gaudio, got allergic to grass at wimbledon or the world leader (hi, pete) was losing to delgado or blanco at RG are just gone.

this is why i think about the clay specialists we can talk only about these lower level players, who still perform on carpets of sarajevo or clays of monza

for instance, alessio di mauro - would you believe this italian ex top 70 player has just performed this week in his first hc tournament since 2007?

these specializations would typically start below the top 30 with guys like andujar, bellucci, zeballos, berlocq, but even they have their feast in miami or to smaller extend indian wells of today. fognini, montanes are also clay specialists
04-05-2013 12:31 PM
leng jai
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
The bottom line is that Spudtro doesn't have what it takes to string matches together and win a top-tier tournament, other than those two weeks three years ago when he got phenomenally lucky.

He has always been able to fluke a match here and there over the top players. IW is just further evidence of that.
So the more matches he wins against the top players is just further proof of his "flukes". The logic, there is none. He strung several matches together at IW against the best players in the world and just fell short. Djokovic would struggle too if he had to beat Nadal, Murray and Federer to win a MS title.

Please explain to phenomenal luck you speak of in the 2009 USO. Murray's USO was far "luckier" so what would be the adjective you'd use for that title?
04-05-2013 12:24 PM
Caesar1844
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
It's irrelevant who remembers what or what your preference is when you're objectively measuring which feat is more impressive. People who keep using the "no masters series" schtick is nonsense since by your logic he'd be a better player by beating 6 gimps to the total rather than beating Murray/Djokovic and losing to Nadal in 3 in the final.
The bottom line is that Spudtro doesn't have what it takes to string matches together and win a top-tier tournament, other than those two weeks three years ago when he got phenomenally lucky.

He has always been able to fluke a match here and there over the top players. IW is just further evidence of that.
04-05-2013 12:22 PM
Caesar1844
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
No, it doesn't, the fact that he can be more steady off the back of the court than Murray and Djokovic back to back pretty much nullifies the 'low margin' nonsense.
No, it just shows that he has no weapons if he isn't ballbashing, and requires his opponents to mug away a match to give him victory.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
If you can do this, I'll admit Del Potro is a fluke This would require (a) finding posts from before I even became an MTF member since I only joined a year ago and (b) finding posts where I claim a certain year will be Delpo's/dominated by Delpo, which I never did. Good luck.
I cannot be bothered digging through your thousands of idiotic posts to find the most idiotic. Every time you post here you show your ignorance anyway.
04-05-2013 12:09 PM
GSMnadal
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
It's irrelevant who remembers what or what your preference is when you're objectively measuring which feat is more impressive. People who keep using the "no masters series" schtick is nonsense since by your logic he'd be a better player by beating 6 gimps to the total rather than beating Murray/Djokovic and losing to Nadal in 3 in the final.
Sadly that's how the majority of MTF thinks with their stupid 17>.. logic
04-05-2013 12:07 PM
leng jai
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
and nobody will give a shit about this in a month. Fact remains he hasn't won a masters title and has never been to slam SF after 2009. And some fangirls still use wrist "injury" as an excuse. Also I;d rather my favorite players won a title in an "unimpressive" fashion than mug out after a "heroic run", I am sure Noserer sleeps with his RG title between him and Mirka, no matter how tainted and undeserved it was (never faced Nadal, taken to 5 by Shitro/Muggy Haas/Choker in first ever slam final etc)
It's irrelevant who remembers what or what your preference is when you're objectively measuring which feat is more impressive. People who keep using the "no masters series" schtick is nonsense since by your logic he'd be a better player by beating 6 gimps to the total rather than beating Murray/Djokovic and losing to Nadal in 3 in the final.
04-05-2013 12:03 PM
Topspindoctor
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
Hard draw = shit because you're seeded too low.

Easy draw = vulture/cakewalk draw with everyone bending over to the top 4.

I fail to see how being a low seed changes the fact that what he did there was more impressive than most people's run who actually won the tournament.
and nobody will give a shit about this in a month. Fact remains he hasn't won a masters title and has never been to slam SF after 2009. And some fangirls still use wrist "injury" as an excuse. Also I;d rather my favorite players won a title in an "unimpressive" fashion than mug out after a "heroic run", I am sure Noserer sleeps with his RG title between him and Mirka, no matter how tainted and undeserved it was (never faced Nadal, taken to 5 by Shitro/Muggy Haas/Choker in first ever slam final etc)
04-05-2013 11:56 AM
leng jai
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
And the reason he had a hard draw is because he is shit and is seeded low.

"Not as bad as Ferrer" is hardly a ringing endorsement anyway.
Hard draw = shit because you're seeded too low.

Easy draw = vulture/cakewalk draw with everyone bending over to the top 4.

I fail to see how being a low seed changes the fact that what he did there was more impressive than most people's run who actually won the tournament.
04-05-2013 11:37 AM
Mark Lenders
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
Only proves my point. Unless Djokovic or Murray throw the game away with errors, he is not good enough to beat them.
No, it doesn't, the fact that he can be more steady off the back of the court than Murray and Djokovic back to back pretty much nullifies the 'low margin' nonsense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
Leaving aside the creepiness of you digging through my old posts, neither of them have been disproven yet. If you looked through my posts you'd see I have consistently acknowledged he is a dangerous player. Just not one capable of winning tournaments of note. The comment about him being bagelled in Challengers was to illustrate how ridiculous the idea of him winning another Slam is.

Anyway, I wouldn't get into playing that game if I were you. I could dig through your old posts and find your claims every year for the last three years about how this year is going to be 'Spudtro's year'.
If you can do this, I'll admit Del Potro is a fluke This would require (a) finding posts from before I even became an MTF member since I only joined a year ago and (b) finding posts where I claim a certain year will be Delpo's/dominated by Delpo, which I never did. Good luck.
04-05-2013 11:31 AM
Caesar1844
Re: Who are the Clay court specialists?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Why don't you just admit you never watched a match of his? But you could have at least checked some stats, he just recently beat Murray and Djokovic by hittng less winners than them, by being more steady off the baseline.
Only proves my point. Unless Djokovic or Murray throw the game away with errors, he is not good enough to beat them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Clearly you know what you're talking about Just give it a rest, he did win a Slam beating the two best players of the XXI century and he will be regarded as a lost talent even if he wins another Slam.
Leaving aside the creepiness of you digging through my old posts, neither of them have been disproven yet. If you looked through my posts you'd see I have consistently acknowledged he is a dangerous player. Just not one capable of winning tournaments of note. The comment about him being bagelled in Challengers was to illustrate how ridiculous the idea of him winning another Slam is.

Anyway, I wouldn't get into playing that game if I were you. I could dig through your old posts and find your claims every year for the last three years about how this year is going to be 'Spudtro's year'.
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