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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-03-2013 02:24 AM
BackhandDTL
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

The indoor v. clay thing is difficult.

Others beat me to it, but yes, on the one hand you have to consider Nadal's massive clay court stature and the blockade he is for others on clay, even Djokovic. If you remove Nadal from the picture, Djokovic could have realistically swept the clay season last year. Even against Nadal, he grabbed a couple of Masters.

On the other hand, you can look at the roster of top players he has taken down at the WTF and make an argument for his indoor abilities, results-wise. The competition on hard courts, any form of it, is generally thicker than on clay.


All that aside, it's really about the tennis. And I think, in spite of the shot-making he's produced over the years at WTF, his game is better suited for clay. His returns, his transitional abilities, his heavy shots, his movement--his sheer ability to grind on the stuff--have all been more impressive, imo.


I wonder if that's behind him now, though. Last year, he seemed more inclined to end points quicker, and it cost him quite a bit (particularly v. Nadal). It was a far-cry from the battler he was in '09 and '11.
02-02-2013 05:17 PM
Abel
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post
Yea Federer's pretty much an indoor mug.
You're taking it the wrong way. As good as Fed is on indoor HCs there is no one on ANY surface right now, or over the past few years, that compares with Nadal on clay.



02-02-2013 05:16 PM
GSMnadal
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post
Yea Federer's pretty much an indoor mug.
You should work for a British tabloid, taking stuff out of contest like that.

Compared to Nadal on clay, he's not even close. The numbers speak for themselves.
02-02-2013 05:04 PM
Slice Winner
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
Like BauerAlmeida said, he lost a lot against Nadal. Not only at RG, but in other clay masters as well. You don't have that kind of unstoppable force indoors, the closest being Federer, but that really doesn't come close.
Yea Federer's pretty much an indoor mug.
02-02-2013 04:06 PM
GSMnadal
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Emerson View Post
Djokovic has lost to many other players than Nadal at RG. Nadal is way past it. Djokovic will have the chance to win multiple titles at RG in the future. Let's see where he ends up with more titles when all is said and done. I bet he will end up with more WTF than RG. And it won't be because he will lose several times to Nadal at RG in the future but because he is vulnerable at RG. Always has. He almost lost to Seppi and Tsonga at RG last year, FFS.

Last year he struggled at RG, looked better at Wimbledon, much better at the USO and was supreme at the WTF. He is better on HC(including indoors) than on natural surfaces.
Like BauerAlmeida said, he lost a lot against Nadal. Not only at RG, but in other clay masters as well. You don't have that kind of unstoppable force indoors, the closest being Federer, but that really doesn't come close.
02-02-2013 04:03 PM
BauerAlmeida
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Emerson View Post
Djokovic has lost to many other players than Nadal at RG. Nadal is way past it. Djokovic will have the chance to win multiple titles at RG in the future. Let's see where he ends up with more titles when all is said and done. I bet he will end up with more WTF than RG. And it won't be because he will lose several times to Nadal at RG in the future but because he is vulnerable at RG. Always has. He almost lost to Seppi and Tsonga at RG last year, FFS.
Tsonga's match was really close, but he was never losing to Seppi.

But he lost a lot of times to Nadal at RG. 2006, 2007, 2008, 2012. The last 2 he would have won the title if Nadal wasn't on the draw probably. In 2010 he lost to Melzer in a weird match, but if not it would have been a SF with Nadal again. Not many people can beat him at RG. In 2011 he lost to Federer, not to some mug. The only "bad" loss there was to Kohlschreiber, but he was playing bad and the Rome match against Rafa destroyed his confidence.
02-02-2013 03:53 PM
Roy Emerson
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
No it won't. It'll only prove Nadal on clay is much tougher opposition than anything you'll find indoors
Djokovic has lost to many other players than Nadal at RG. Nadal is way past it. Djokovic will have the chance to win multiple titles at RG in the future. Let's see where he ends up with more titles when all is said and done. I bet he will end up with more WTF than RG. And it won't be because he will lose several times to Nadal at RG in the future but because he is vulnerable at RG. Always has. He almost lost to Seppi and Tsonga at RG last year, FFS.

Last year he struggled at RG, looked better at Wimbledon, much better at the USO and was supreme at the WTF. He is better on HC(including indoors) than on natural surfaces.
02-02-2013 03:51 PM
The Prince
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
dude let's just saying I know Novak's game better than you do
That's such a shit way to argue.

"I'm right because I know more about the issue than you."

02-02-2013 03:50 PM
Alex999
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Emerson View Post
The biggest title on clay is Roland Garros, not the masters1000. He has zero RG titles. The biggest title indoors is the WTF where Djokovic won it twice already. So far he has won the biggest title indoors twice. Like I said earlier, if he ends up with more WTF than RG, that will show he is better indoors. Djokovic won his WTF last year by beating the best indoors player of this generarion, Federer.
Roy, all I can say respectfully, we can agree to disagree. Nole also won Estoril and Amersfoort back in 2006 when he was only 19yo (yes they are/were smaller tournaments but still). Our disagreement might be because you are putting more weight on the WTF than masters plus other clay tournaments. Djokovic played some legendary matches on clay against the clay King Nadal etc.

as for indoor HC. the first one he won, he had it kinda easy def. Davydenko in the final (all respect to Kolya btw). The last one he won was very hard to win so kudos to Nole. However when I look at a big picture, I still think that he is more successful on clay .
02-02-2013 03:48 PM
ProdigyEng
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Federer-Fan View Post
Rank surfaces from best to worst of each player, based on recent results (from about 2011). Here are my rankings...

Novak Djokovic :
1. Outdoor hardcourts
2. Indoor hardcourts
3. Clay
4. Grass

Roger Federer :
1. Indoor hardcourts
2. Grass
3. Outdoor hardcourts
4. Clay

Andy Murray :
1. Outdoor hardcourts
2. Grass
3. Outdoor hardcourts
4. Clay

David Ferrer :
1. Clay
2. Outdoor hardcourts
3. Indoor hardcourts
4. Grass

Rafael Nadal :
1. Clay
2. Grass
3. Outdoor hardcourts
4. Indoor hardcourts

Tomas Berdych :
1. Outdoor hardcourts
2. Indoor hardcourts
3. Clay
4. Grass

Juan Martin Del Potro :
1. Outdoor hardcourts
2. Indoor hardcourts
3. Clay
4. Grass

Jo-Wilfried Tsonga :
1. Grass
2. Indoor hardcourts
3. Outdoor hardcourts
4. Clay

Erm?
02-02-2013 03:46 PM
GSMnadal
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Emerson View Post
Not really.

He has almost as many titles indoors as he has on clay.

If he ends up with more WTF than RG, that will prove it.
No it won't. It'll only prove Nadal on clay is much tougher opposition than anything you'll find indoors
02-02-2013 03:36 PM
Saberq
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Emerson View Post
Not really.

He has almost as many titles indoors as he has on clay.

If he ends up with more WTF than RG, that will prove it.
dude let's just saying I know Novak's game better than you do
02-02-2013 03:30 PM
Roy Emerson
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
yup, 3 clay master and the final of RG. but there is no point to explain things to someone who is ignorant.
The biggest title on clay is Roland Garros, not the masters1000. He has zero RG titles. The biggest title indoors is the WTF where Djokovic won it twice already. So far he has won the biggest title indoors twice. Like I said earlier, if he ends up with more WTF than RG, that will show he is better indoors. Djokovic won his WTF last year by beating the best indoors player of this generarion, Federer.
02-02-2013 03:29 PM
Alex999
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez View Post
On topic of Djokovic's second best surface: IMO, it's very very close but probably clay
you are absolutely right and your list is spot on btw
02-02-2013 03:27 PM
Alex999
Re: Rank surfaces of each player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
3 clay masters prove you wrong
yup, 3 clay master and the final of RG. but there is no point to explain things to someone who is ignorant, meaning you can disagree but don't use stupid emoticons as your argument (addressing this TB kiddo).
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