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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-17-2013 02:12 PM
Johnny Groove
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Another slam.
12-17-2013 01:36 PM
Moozza
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Why is this still even up for debate?

Murray is a far better player than both. I thought this had been settled?
12-17-2013 01:30 PM
TigerTim
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

I'd rather have Murray's career than the other two but it is still close.

As for no.1 there is a chance, if murray remains healthy, in 2/3 years time if Nadal finally declines (perhaps?!) and Djokovic has a off year because the rest of the competition is so weak. Murray needs to put it all together for a year to get to no.1 which he never does, if he combined 2012 and 2011 he might be close, he needs to do better indoors though, and obviously on clay, although 2011 wasn't bad, SF at Rome, Micky Carlo and French which is probably the best he can hope for. Never understood why he never has done better at Madrid though, would have thought that would be his best clay event.

Looking good and healthy from what I've seen, hopefully the increased power following back surgery has enabled him to reduce his bulk. If what he says about the injury is true and it really was hampering him, and he comes back 100% you never know.
12-17-2013 09:32 AM
MariaV
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elpistolero7 View Post
Safin is far too inconsistent to even discuss, biggest waste of talent in history. Should have been the one challenging Federer consistently...had the game for it anyway.
As sad as it is, I have to agree, together with Nalbandian. I understand I'm not the most objective analyst here though.

Re the original question: Murray has already surpassed them, I'd say.
12-17-2013 09:17 AM
elpistolero7
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
Murray needs to get to #1 at some point. Hewitt or Safin managed to be the best at some point in their respective careers.
Murray's young career was when Nadal reached his peak early (22ish) and Fed was in his peak. No chance of number 1. These 2 will be the main GOAT contenders alongside Laver once they're done.

Then when Fed started to age, Djokovic emerged with unreal consistency, 5 slams, 3 semis and 4 finals in the last 3 years...amazing consistency and taking the number 1 ranking from a fit and in form Nadal in 2011, something Federer could never regain without Nadal being injured. That's a testament to Djokovic's greatness. He's also the AO goat and a future tier 1 great...very likely to break into double figures for slams.

Being number 1 now is fucking ridiculous. The 2 guys at the top have 12,000 plus points. When was the last time 2 tier 1 greats dominated the game like this? Fed and Nadal 07-09. Would a peak Safin or peak Hewitt have a chance of even being top 2 in times like these? All reasonable fans of the game know the answer.

Hewitt was 80 weeks at number 1. During this 80 week reign. During a consecutive year and a half of being number 1, Hewitt won 2 slams and reached 2 semis. That was his best career period really. Outside of that, he was a losing finalist twice and had a couple of semis. His level of play in 05 was the most consistency he's ever shown...3 GS finals. Murray in the last 2 years alone has 2 GS, 2 losses in GS finals to better quality oppositon+ a semi+ the gold. In Hewitt's era, 100% Murray would have made number 1. Safin is far too inconsistent to even discuss, biggest waste of talent in history. Should have been the one challenging Federer consistently...had the game for it anyway.

One more slam and there's no comparison really, he's already had a better career than Hewitt. Hewitt had 80 weeks at number 1. Djokovic has 100. Nadal has 115. That's close right? What the fuck does that tell you? Djoker and Nadal are tennis legends 17 trillion light years ahead of Hewitt in every way, but their reigsn at number 1 indicate and equal level of dominance...look at what Nadal had to do to get to number 1 first time...beat Federer senseless in the FO, beat the grass goat and his 65 match winning streak on grass and gain Wimbledon, while making 2 hardcourt semis all whilst being 22. In 2010 he won 3 slams to regain it. Djokovic beat Nadal senseless in 2011 and had the greatest year barring Fed's 06 in the last 2 decades...the quality at the very top of tennis has been of a different level since 07-08 onwards. (2010,2009 channel slam being the exceptions)
12-17-2013 04:38 AM
Kowchi
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
Safin? a FH? a BH? being handsome? charisma? born again


I laughed waaaaaay tooo hard at this.

To honestly answer the question, I would say two more slams and at least being number one for a week.
12-17-2013 04:35 AM
Alex999
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Murray needs to get to #1 at some point. Hewitt or Safin managed to be the best at some point in their respective careers.
12-17-2013 04:17 AM
Hangaroo
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elpistolero7 View Post
Safin is easily the most talented of the 3.

Murray is easily the most consistent of the 3. 2 slams and 1 OG in a far tougher era. Already the best career of the 3.
Agreed

I don't buy the Hewitt has weeks at #1 argument. I mean no offense to Hewitt, but he was the textbook transitional champion, while Andy had to win all his titles in a ridiculously competitive era. Even ignoring the era argument, the only records that really matter in tennis are the titles you have at the end of the day and IMHO

Andy's USO + Wimby + 1 OG + 9 Masters > Hewitt's USO + Wimby + 2 WTF + 2 Masters
12-17-2013 04:02 AM
elpistolero7
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Safin is easily the most talented of the 3.

Murray is easily the most consistent of the 3. 2 slams and 1 OG in a far tougher era. Already the best career of the 3.
12-17-2013 03:56 AM
Nole Rules
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Now?! Hewitt is still ahead of him but one can argue he already surpassed Safin.
01-29-2013 09:09 AM
ogbg
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by atennisfan View Post
You keep saying the word "statistically", but you conveniently left out one of top two most important statistics to determine greatness: # of weeks at #1.
That was my point at the end. I don't really see it as a statistic in the same was as match statistics though.
01-29-2013 02:14 AM
juan27
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
Murraytards saying he already surpassed them . Some people really started wathcing tennis last year. Hewitt was #1 two years in a row, won 2 slams and 2 TMC.

Safin beat peak Federer in a slam, Murray had to wait untill Federer was 30 to take a set and 31 to beat him. Only player to beat Peakerer in a non-clay slam and also demolished Sampras's in his backyard in a final, being 20 years old. Youngest player to reach #1. Something Murray never did. All of this having his career finished pretty much when he was 25 because of injuries (not to mention all of the injuries he suffered before that).
agree with you man!!!

safin and hewitt had more balls for defeated great champion than murray
01-28-2013 11:21 PM
atennisfan
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ogbg View Post
Statistically he probably needs one more major win. He is ahead on most other stats:

(Murray/Hewitt/Safin)

Titles: 25/28/15
GS Titles: 1/2/2
Masters Titles: 8/2/5

Win-Loss: 75.8/72.1/61.2
GS Win-Loss: 79.1/72.5/71.4
Masters win-loss: 70.3/65.6/58.2
Top ten win-loss: 55.9/47.3/49.5


Non-statistically, he will probably never be able to say that at any point in his career he was at that time the best player in the world while Hewitt and Safin could say that.

You keep saying the word "statistically", but you conveniently left out one of top two most important statistics to determine greatness: # of weeks at #1.
01-28-2013 11:01 PM
BauerAlmeida
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris Franz Ecker View Post
Murray needs to surpass Roddick, than he has surely surpassed Safin.
Murray with 2nd grand slam title would have surpassed roddick.
Roddick surpassed Safin finally with longevity as it's written in the holy bible of tennis.

Hewitt is currently out of reach for murray.
he needs at least two more features.
Roddick, 1 slam thanks to the officials in the Semi Finals
Safin, 2 slams beating the 2 goats
01-28-2013 10:41 PM
Saberq
Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris Franz Ecker View Post
Murray needs to surpass Roddick, than he has surely surpassed Safin.
Murray with 2nd grand slam title would have surpassed roddick.
Roddick surpassed Safin finally with longevity as it's written in the holy bible of tennis.

Hewitt is currently out of reach for murray.
he needs at least two more features.
Murray only needs number 1 to surpass Roddick but even without it he is better without question
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