MensTennisForums.com - Reply to Topic

Thread: M.Muzza.M Chat Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-13-2016 06:55 PM
Murray Mint
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

06-07-2016 09:18 PM
Jamvol
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalkdust View Post
It reminded me a lot of his match against Nadal in the Wimbledon semi-final 2011, where he was playing brilliantly, was a set up and 2-1 30-15* Nadal, missed a sitter volley at the net, and then just vacated the premises for the remainder of the match. Except this time it wasn't so much a case of him fretting about the miss, he just seemed out of ideas, and incapable of pulling the trigger, even when it was obvious there was no other option left.
Yeah it reminded me a lot of Wimbledon'11 SF too. Very disappointing overall, like Murray Mint says it's awkward as a fan. You obviously don't want him to get upset early in these big tournaments, but seeing him play poorly in all these slam finals and get routined is depressing.

I don't like to make excuses, but I think he might have just been burned out. Going deep in all 3 clay m1000s and making the last 2 of RG is just utterly unfamiliar territory for Murray.

If he makes another final (and let's face it we all know who he will play in it) I at least hope he gives a good account of himself, because he certainly did not in both the finals this year.
06-07-2016 04:02 PM
TigerTim
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Hopefully Djokovic drops the ball and encounters someone in a wardrobe or something etc

However the one place you can bet Murray will beat Djokovic will be the Olympics, why can't every match be one where he represents his country rather than himself?
06-07-2016 12:02 PM
Murray Mint
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzahLovah View Post
It seems unbelievable that Andy has been to two of two finals this year, and you are predicting he won't ever win a slam again. And it's even more depressing that I share that feeling.
Either he changes the way he approaches Djoko matches, or he hopes for the robot to malfunction.
Yeah, it seems ridiculous, it really does. Yet unless he can pull off a sneaky Wimbledon, it's quite hard to see it happening.

I suppose the men's game is much older nowadays, but I still feel like the clock's ticking to some point.

The positive thing here in 2016 is that there's really no one to stop him making finals, but there's also no one to stop Djokovic either, and we know how that goes. Suppose he's just got to keep putting himself in that position and hope for the best. I had a disturbing thought last night - he's actually got a chance of pulling off the 4/4 runner-up year at the slams.
06-07-2016 05:45 AM
MuzzahLovah
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray Mint View Post
Yeah, it was quite similar to the Nadal match in Monte Carlo - brilliant first set, then seemed to drift away in the next set, and then started to look very tired. I think the 2nd set was purely down to his mentality. He has a complex about slam finals and a complex about Djokovic and it's all too obvious. He was in a great position there and Djokovic looked very tense, and he just let it all slip and got blown away. Then no response in the 3rd. By that point he was clearly looking tired.

I hate to be so critical of the guy since I felt really bad for him yesterday, but it was such a terrible performance, and if anything, delivering it after that excellent first set only made it seem all the worse, or at least more disappointing. I just don't understand how he disengages in such big matches at such crucial times - it starts to look like he's going through the motions against someone in R2 or something. Everything went: the thought in his play, service percentage, service speeds, stroke speeds.

I don't think he'll ever win a slam again, but if it's gonna happen it'll be Wimbledon.
It seems unbelievable that Andy has been to two of two finals this year, and you are predicting he won't ever win a slam again. And it's even more depressing that I share that feeling.
Either he changes the way he approaches Djoko matches, or he hopes for the robot to malfunction.
06-06-2016 11:45 AM
chalkdust
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murray Mint View Post
[...]
I hate to be so critical of the guy since I felt really bad for him yesterday, but it was such a terrible performance, and if anything, delivering it after that excellent first set only made it seem all the worse, or at least more disappointing. I just don't understand how he disengages in such big matches at such crucial times - it starts to look like he's going through the motions against someone in R2 or something. Everything went: the thought in his play, service percentage, service speeds, stroke speeds.

I don't think he'll ever win a slam again, but if it's gonna happen it'll be Wimbledon.
Yup. He just seemed to fall back on the patterns he had written down in his notes, which of course Novak was fully able to predict as the match wore on (and even had predicted before the match to a great extent, after the Rome experience). Novak was often half way to where Andy's next ball would land before Andy had even hit it, but he went there anyway.

It reminded me a lot of his match against Nadal in the Wimbledon semi-final 2011, where he was playing brilliantly, was a set up and 2-1 30-15* Nadal, missed a sitter volley at the net, and then just vacated the premises for the remainder of the match. Except this time it wasn't so much a case of him fretting about the miss, he just seemed out of ideas, and incapable of pulling the trigger, even when it was obvious there was no other option left.
06-06-2016 11:18 AM
Murray Mint
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Yeah, it was quite similar to the Nadal match in Monte Carlo - brilliant first set, then seemed to drift away in the next set, and then started to look very tired. I think the 2nd set was purely down to his mentality. He has a complex about slam finals and a complex about Djokovic and it's all too obvious. He was in a great position there and Djokovic looked very tense, and he just let it all slip and got blown away. Then no response in the 3rd. By that point he was clearly looking tired.

I hate to be so critical of the guy since I felt really bad for him yesterday, but it was such a terrible performance, and if anything, delivering it after that excellent first set only made it seem all the worse, or at least more disappointing. I just don't understand how he disengages in such big matches at such crucial times - it starts to look like he's going through the motions against someone in R2 or something. Everything went: the thought in his play, service percentage, service speeds, stroke speeds.

I don't think he'll ever win a slam again, but if it's gonna happen it'll be Wimbledon.
06-06-2016 09:43 AM
chalkdust
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzahLovah View Post
So I totally didn't watch, even though I was slightly more hopeful about this final than I am usually. Anyone have a play by play? Did Andy lose steam, tire out, or was Nole nervous then found his footing? I am staying away from GM until Queens.
Andy won the toss and chose to serve (!)
He was broken to love, didn't do much wrong, Novak returned everything.
Broke back immediately with some good play. Game on!
Held, broke again. Clayray! Andy was crushing the ball. Novak spraying errors, especially fh side.
Could have had a double break, Novak gradually coming back into the match, Novak with low first serve speed (trying to avoid giving Andy any looks at second serve), could Andy hold on to his lead?
YEA! He held on. 61% first serve% for Andy. Good match in the making.

First game, second set, Andy has break point at 40-Ad. Can't quite remember what happened, but got into a rally and think he could have hit the ball harder to win. Novak holds.
Second game, Djokovic enters extreme pushing mode, leading to long rallies and UEs from Andy. Andy at 15-40, wins a good point. 30-40, playing excellently, Andy has a fairly easy put away volley standing two feet from the net, and he dumps it into the tape. BREAK.

Andy begins to look like he won't get back into this set. Is he tired, already?! Kind of going through the motions. Maybe he is just regrouping for the third? Ceases to attack the ball, not making many returns, serve percentage way down.

And ... the match just carries on like that, except Andy makes more and more errors, serve gets worse and worse, zero power, no energy, making no returns, Djokovic relaxing and playing more freely. Andy doesn't try anything different except no-spin high backhands to Djokovic's backhand corner (a la Gasquet match), which of course have no impact. No short slices, no dropshots, no fast backhand cross-court shots to the corner, his forehand dtl woeful as usual, and cross-court no pace.

Serving for it with a double break, Djokovic nervous, and Andy finally hits the ball quite hard. BREAKS.
Serving for it again, Djokovic ridiculously nervous, but Andy just patting the ball back, and then coughing up a tame error - hands the match to Djokovic on a silver plate.

Two possible explanations. First, Andy was obviously knackered by his previous matches, and just could not maintain the intensity required for him to compete with Novak for more than 12 games. Second, he has a horrible mentality in some matches, especially slam finals, has very little perception of how such a match is evolving, gets punch drunk, loses confidence and rhythm on serve, and just implodes.

It's true that Djokovic was quite bad for about five or six games in the first set, and then kept getting better, but Andy just completely disappeared, as I expect the stats will show. Courier mentioned a few during commentary: second serve return speed was down 6 km/h versus first set; obviously, there was the awful decline in first serve percentage; and I would expect, but haven't verified, that his groundstroke speed fell away also.

One had the feeling by Set 3 that it would be literally impossible for Djokovic to play badly enough to lose, because Andy would find ways to lower his level beneath anything Novak could offer, as we saw in the final game. Kind of baffling, but we have been here before.
06-06-2016 08:53 AM
TigerTim
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Urgh, getting pretty NID but in clay it was ways a long shot. Wimbledon is is best/only chance imo.
06-06-2016 06:02 AM
MuzzahLovah
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

So I totally didn't watch, even though I was slightly more hopeful about this final than I am usually. Anyone have a play by play? Did Andy lose steam, tire out, or was Nole nervous then found his footing? I am staying away from GM until Queens.
06-05-2016 03:38 PM
Murray Mint
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Christ.

I don't think I'm even going to watch if he makes another slam final against Djokovic. I'll just avoid the inevitable 3/4 set defeat, and if by some miracle he wins, watch the replay and enjoy every moment.
06-05-2016 11:25 AM
Murray Mint
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sham Kay Adams View Post
Doesn't help that Djokovic has been to the last 124543834 Grand Slam Finals..
Yeah. Can only think of Cilic - the lucky bastard - getting to the final and finding Nishikori there! Or at least he's the only guy in recent memory to not have to get past Djokovic at some point to win the title.

It's the slam final paradox again as a fan... of course we want to see him get there, and it really should be an exciting occasion, but urgh... it gets so wearing seeing him lose them.
06-04-2016 10:29 PM
chalkdust
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Such a huge match coming up ... How do the players stay calm or sleep the night before? I'd be going mental. I guess they get used to it eventually, up to a point.
06-04-2016 10:04 PM
Sham Kay Adams
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Extremely irritating that once again it's another slam final and it's Djokovic again, like he's banned from playing anyone else in one- even Federer or Nadal would be a nice change-up.
Doesn't help that Djokovic has been to the last 124543834 Grand Slam Finals..



Didn't want to jinx Murray so haven't been posting in here. But, jinxing doesn't exist, and he's playing with confidence again. Great to see him in another Slam Final. And the French of all Slams..

Just hope you lot have insured your TV sets. It's the first thing I did since he beat Wawrinka.
06-04-2016 10:50 AM
Jamvol
Re: M.Muzza.M Chat

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Extremely irritating that once again it's another slam final and it's Djokovic again, like he's banned from playing anyone else in one- even Federer or Nadal would be a nice change-up.
Murray's slam final opponents have been ridiculously brutal. The only times he didn't play the best player in the world were AO'11 and W'12.... in that case he merely had to settle for players about to become the best in the world or the respective tournament GOAT .
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome