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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-03-2013 10:07 PM
buddyholly
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manadrainer View Post
This x 1000.

It's beyond me how some people still look at USSR as something good. They were just as bad as Hitler's Nazi Germany.

I know nobody talks about it but while Hitler was killing 6 millions jews, Stalin killed 10 millions Kulaks...

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App
Some people still want to believe that communism could be something good.. But it always ends up something like you describe above.
It is quite obvious that so called communist societies have actually been the most dictatorial. And perfectly obvious that communism can only function by an elite clique keeping the masses subjugated by eliminating all human rights, yet claiming to serve the masses. Communism is just another word for unnatural.
11-03-2013 07:52 PM
manadrainer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
Achievements of the Soviet Union

Off the top of my head:
  • Seizure of land and personal property.
  • Abolition of democracy.
  • Abolition of free press, free speech and free assembly.
  • Abolition of religion, culture and free thought.
  • Interrogation, torture and murder of dissidents.
  • Forced labour and human sacrifice for the sake of road and rail construction.
  • Economic mis-management, neglect and corruption.
  • Mass starvation, mal-nutrition and poverty.
  • Military expansionism and imperialism.
  • Shutting in and surveillance of its own citizens.
  • Sureveillance, espionage and theft of foreign ideas.
This x 1000.

It's beyond me how some people still look at USSR as something good. They were just as bad as Hitler's Nazi Germany.

I know nobody talks about it but while Hitler was killing 6 millions jews, Stalin killed 10 millions Kulaks...

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App
10-29-2013 10:53 PM
Jimnik
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Achievements of the Soviet Union

Off the top of my head:
  • Seizure of land and personal property.
  • Abolition of democracy.
  • Abolition of free press, free speech and free assembly.
  • Abolition of religion, culture and free thought.
  • Interrogation, torture and murder of dissidents.
  • Forced labour and human sacrifice for the sake of road and rail construction.
  • Economic mis-management, neglect and corruption.
  • Mass starvation, mal-nutrition and poverty.
  • Military expansionism and imperialism.
  • Shutting in and surveillance of its own citizens.
  • Sureveillance, espionage and theft of foreign ideas.
10-29-2013 06:57 PM
buddyholly
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinoj View Post

SO what i took it from a Reliable Source like Wikipedia. Now Dont tell me that you were personal Assistant of Kennedy or you were one of the Astronauts. What you saw on TV or heard from your Friends, i took the information from Wikipedia. Whats the Deal there.
The race was to put a man on the moon. The US gave the Soviets a head start and then roared past them. And that is where it ends. USA 1 - Soviets 0.

What you need to read more about is the number of Soviet failures. Rockets were exploding all over the place.
But their space programme was conducted in secrecy. Successes were only announced after the fact. Their string of failures was never mentioned. All that came out after the collapse of the Soviet Union. They never put a man on the moon because every single one of their rockets that were tested for that purpose failed.

Don't you think that if the Soviet Union was a great success we would be seeing the results of that today, instead of having seen it collapse from the inside?
10-29-2013 03:26 PM
Shinoj
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
EVERYTHING I have written has been in response to what YOU have written. I think you are in denial.

But you did not write it anyway. You copied it word for word from Wikipedia, often out of context and apparently sometimes not even bothering to read what you, yourself, plagiarized.
Look you said USSR's Space Program was over taken very comfortable once Kennedy said this and that.

And i can list you down around 20 Achievements of Soviet Union in the Space Technology. And thats where it ends. US in no way was way superior than Soviet in Space technology.

SO what i took it from a Reliable Source like Wikipedia. Now Dont tell me that you were personal Assistant of Kennedy or you were one of the Astronauts. What you saw on TV or heard from your Friends, i took the information from Wikipedia. Whats the Deal there.
10-29-2013 01:55 PM
buddyholly
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinoj View Post

Very Conveniently you ignore whatever i have written and just choose to focus on what you are saying.
EVERYTHING I have written has been in response to what YOU have written. I think you are in denial.

But you did not write it anyway. You copied it word for word from Wikipedia, often out of context and apparently sometimes not even bothering to read what you, yourself, plagiarized.
10-29-2013 01:22 PM
Shinoj
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Proof? Have you been hiding under a rock since 1969? Or do you believe the moon landing was filmed in Hollywood?
So?

USSR did so many things in Space technology which you have conveniently ignored. Do You really believe your Old Greying IQ Cells are shared by Others.

Very Conveniently you ignore whatever i have written and just choose to focus on what you are saying.
10-29-2013 12:42 PM
buddyholly
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinoj View Post
Okay.. Welding was not my focus on the list of achievements. But if it is there then i do not see a problem in it. As there are so many much more achievements on which you could have focussed. But you did not do it as it did not suit you.


.
I just focused on the achievements YOU chose. However, I suspect you just hastily lifted the sentences from Wikipedia without even fully being aware of their content.
10-29-2013 12:36 PM
buddyholly
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinoj View Post

And whatever you have uttered about Kennedy told them to catch up and they were ahead of USSR. Proof? As far as i am seeing it you are utterring Pro-Capitalist Agenda as much as they uttered their Communist Agenda. There is not much Difference from a Neutral Point of View.
Proof? Have you been hiding under a rock since 1969? Or do you believe the moon landing was filmed in Hollywood?
10-29-2013 12:28 PM
Shinoj
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I did not "imply" welding. You included it in your list of Soviet scientific triumphs. But I see that is just another sentence you sifted from the Wikipedia article? I am sure they did not lead the world in health care, ever. Not when they were actively terminating the health of their subjects by executing them by the millions.
As for space technology, they sent up a Sputnik, probably mostly due to the efforts of non Soviets trapped behind the Iron Curtain, Kennedy told the US to catch up and within a few years the Soviets were out of the picture.

By your measuring stick you may as well claim that at various times Adam led the world in life expectancy.
Okay.. Welding was not my focus on the list of achievements. But if it is there then i do not see a problem in it. As there are so many much more achievements on which you could have focussed. But you did not do it as it did not suit you.

Look.. Terminating their own Citizens has nothing to do with HealthCare. You are trying to mix Up the Two.

As far as i see it, If a citizen can Access Hospitals in his Country for free that is a good achievement. Not that i know about the quality of the Doctors and treatment.

And terminating their own citizens has probably to do with their official policy of suppressing any Rebellion.

And whatever you have uttered about Kennedy told them to catch up and they were ahead of USSR. Proof? As far as i am seeing it you are utterring Pro-Capitalist Agenda as much as they uttered their Communist Agenda. There is not much Difference from a Neutral Point of View.

But yes, USSR were mighty and Successfull.
10-29-2013 12:10 PM
buddyholly
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinoj View Post
Why? Those arent Achivements for you?

Well, i am not sure how you implied Welding but they have led the World in Space technology,health care,Defense,Energy Sector,Rail Transport in various times. That is a formidable list.

Look you have asked about achievements i have stated them. Now why they have declined is a completely different matter.
I did not "imply" welding. You included it in your list of Soviet scientific triumphs. But I see that is just another sentence you sifted from the Wikipedia article? I am sure they did not lead the world in health care, ever. Not when they were actively terminating the health of their subjects by executing them by the millions. Medical advances are of little benefit to the people if they are not available to the people.
As for space technology, they sent up a Sputnik, probably mostly due to the efforts of non Soviets trapped behind the Iron Curtain, Kennedy told the US to catch up and within a few years the Soviets were out of the picture.

And then there is your claim that the Soviet rail system was the largest and most intensively used in the world. Yes, true. BECAUSE THERE WERE NO ROADS!!!!

By your measuring stick you may as well claim that at various times Adam led the world in life expectancy.
10-29-2013 11:30 AM
Shinoj
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Well, that is one fabulous list of achievements. Especially the achievement of having oil in the ground and the amazing news that they led the world in welding.
Now I am completely confused as to why the Soviet Union imploded.
I would really like to see those numbers on the world beating per capita income growth. Can you give me a link please? I am curious because Wikipedia shows a graph of numbers from the Official Soviet Statistics office that indicates that the Soviet economy declined every decade from the 50's until the final collapse.
Oh wait, I see your statement the the growth rate of per capita income was slightly above world average was taken word for word from the same Wikipedia article. Unfortunately you did not continue the quote that tried to account for why it was a failure.
Why? Those arent Achivements for you?

Well, i am not sure how you implied Welding but they have led the World in Space technology,health care,Defense,Energy Sector,Rail Transport in various times. That is a formidable list.

Look you have asked about achievements i have stated them. Now why they have declined is a completely different matter.
10-29-2013 11:12 AM
buddyholly
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
Yea I know but my comment was just a generalized "Canada's healthcare is good" ie compared to most of the world. I'm sure it could be better.
A new report has just come out. The average wait time to see a medical specialist and receive treatment is now more than 18 weeks, 42 weeks if you live in PEI.

So my dissatisfaction is not on the quality of the treatment, but the unavailability. The report states that while spending more and more per capita, these wait times are way longer than in other countries with universal health care, such as Australia, Sweden and Switzerland.
And as the amount of money poured into health care increases annually, so does the wait time.
Health care is now becoming just another government bureaucracy, collapsing under the weight of its own ineptitude.
10-29-2013 10:29 AM
buddyholly
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinoj View Post
Achievements of Soviet Union


First of All without the Efforts of Soviet Union, the Axis Powers led by Hitler would have inflicted Massive Further Damage to Entire World. It was majorly due to the Battle of Stalingrad that Hitler suffered Major Losses and eventually he couldnt recover from that. That itself is a Massive Achievement

It was one of the Founders of United Nations


Scientific and Technological Achievements

It launched the First Ever Artificial Satellite,Sputnik,It sent the First dog, Man,Woman into Space and many more Firsts in Space. the List is quite Long Actually. And it could be very well said that it was one of the Pioneer of Space technology and all the things related to it.


Between 1960 and 1989, the growth rate of per capita income in the Soviet Union was slightly above the world average


In the Energy Sector, Soviet was very well Established and at its peak it was the largest producer and second largest exporter of crude oil, surpassed only by Saudi Arabia.
It was only due to United States Policy which forced Saudi Arabia to lower its value of Crude oil so that Crude Oil belonging to Soviet did have much value.


Soviets scientists were among the world's best-trained specialists in several areas, such as energy physics, selected areas of medicine, mathematics, welding and military technologies


Soviet rail transport was the largest and most intensively used in the world; it was also better developed than most of its Western counterparts

Soviets HealthCare was world renowned. The Healthcare was owned by the state and all the citizens had free Access to any Healthcare Insititution anywhere in USSR.Its Life expectancy was better than United States for a long time after the World War II.


The Soviet merchant fleet was one of the largest in the world





You could argue over the means how they achieved it; because of iron Hand and Strict Cetralization and minimum Common mans interference but all these things are Success.
Well, that is one fabulous list of achievements. Especially the achievement of having oil in the ground and the amazing news that they led the world in welding.
Now I am completely confused as to why the Soviet Union imploded.
I would really like to see those numbers on the world beating per capita income growth. Can you give me a link please? I am curious because Wikipedia shows a graph of numbers from the Official Soviet Statistics office that indicates that the Soviet economy declined every decade from the 50's until the final collapse.
Oh wait, I see your statement that the growth rate of per capita income was slightly above world average was taken word for word from the same Wikipedia article. Unfortunately you did not continue the quote that then tried to account for why it was a failure.

And I am still amazed that people keep repeating that the Soviet Union defeated Hitler and saved the world from barbarism. The fact is that Hitler and the Soviet Union were buddies in barbarism, until Hitler decided to turn on his Soviet buddies. The Soviet Union did not decide to stop Hitler, it was actually helping Hitler.
10-29-2013 09:50 AM
Shinoj
Re: Socialism sucks....seriously.

Achievements of Soviet Union


First of All without the Efforts of Soviet Union, the Axis Powers led by Hitler would have inflicted Massive Further Damage to Entire World. It was majorly due to the Battle of Stalingrad that Hitler suffered Major Losses and eventually he couldnt recover from that. That itself is a Massive Achievement

It was one of the Founders of United Nations


Scientific and Technological Achievements

It launched the First Ever Artificial Satellite,Sputnik,It sent the First dog, Man,Woman into Space and many more Firsts in Space. the List is quite Long Actually. And it could be very well said that it was one of the Pioneer of Space technology and all the things related to it.


Between 1960 and 1989, the growth rate of per capita income in the Soviet Union was slightly above the world average


In the Energy Sector, Soviet was very well Established and at its peak it was the largest producer and second largest exporter of crude oil, surpassed only by Saudi Arabia.
It was only due to United States Policy which forced Saudi Arabia to lower its value of Crude oil so that Crude Oil belonging to Soviet did have much value.


Soviets scientists were among the world's best-trained specialists in several areas, such as energy physics, selected areas of medicine, mathematics, welding and military technologies


Soviet rail transport was the largest and most intensively used in the world; it was also better developed than most of its Western counterparts

Soviets HealthCare was world renowned. The Healthcare was owned by the state and all the citizens had free Access to any Healthcare Insititution anywhere in USSR.Its Life expectancy was better than United States for a long time after the World War II.


The Soviet merchant fleet was one of the largest in the world


Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Did you really mean to say that the Soviet Union was successful? I would enjoy reading the parameters you used to reach that conclusion.

You could argue over the means how they achieved it; because of iron Hand and Strict Cetralization and minimum Common mans interference but all these things are Success.
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