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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-29-2012 01:47 AM
tripwires
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

This thread was started before that Nadal match dear.
03-28-2012 06:54 PM
Everko
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

I wonder if Filo V would get so much hate if he were a Federer fan. Not likely. people didn't like that he defended Nadal in the beating Nishikori thread, now they complain about his avatar. Pathetic.
03-28-2012 06:40 PM
Start da Game
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay Death View Post
why is this even an issue?

filo v is not bothering anybody. it seems like the other way around: some of the ejaculites are bothering the hell of filo v very simply because they cant mind their own business.
concurred.....too bad he was forced to remove that.....
03-28-2012 05:39 PM
Har-Tru
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
How can it make a difference to me if I'm dead? Or if I get Alzheimer's? In that case you are just deceiving yourself thinking you can have some purpose - a temporary one at best, but when you die you're dead.

Imagine someone is in the middle of a desert with no one there in the circle of 2000 miles, and has only 0,1l of water. Without that water the person died in 3 days. With the water, the person died in 5 days. Did that water make a difference, had a very important purpose?
If you didn't get it already I don't think you're going to get it... what you do in life has an effect upon yourself when you're alive and upon others while you're alive and even when you're dead.

Your allegory is twisted, because two days in the same gruesome conditions are of course no difference (except if they get him rescued). But what if Einstein had said at age 25 "look, when I'm dead I'm dead, there is no purpose to all this... so I might as well just sit back and sulk my life away"? He wouldn't have had such a fascinating life and wouldn't have left the legacy he left.

Why is there the need for a cosmic significance for life to have a purpose? Millions of non-believers have had extremely fulfilling and thrilling lives full of sense and purpose.
03-28-2012 01:39 PM
Time Violation
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

How can it make a difference to me if I'm dead? Or if I get Alzheimer's? In that case you are just deceiving yourself thinking you can have some purpose - a temporary one at best, but when you die you're dead.

Imagine someone is in the middle of a desert with no one there in the circle of 2000 miles, and has only 0,1l of water. Without that water the person died in 3 days. With the water, the person died in 5 days. Did that water make a difference, had a very important purpose?
03-26-2012 08:07 PM
Har-Tru
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
Mozart is just an example, there are many famous people with similar or even more tragic stories - Tesla, Oscar Wilde, Van Gogh, Kafka, etc - just to name a few everyone knows.

What am I talking about? What is my point? Not just about God as depicted on someone's avatar, painting or whatever. If life is just a random event, with no "bigger picture" involved, then we really are not too different than the mentioned worms or roaches - we run around this planet without much sense or purpose. In 50 to 60 years, >90% of MTF users (for example) will be dead anyway; what kind of life they had, whether it was "improved" or not matters little. Do you know what kind of life your ancestor from XII century had? Or your ancestor from VIII century b.c.? Do you care? 5000 years later, is anyone going to care what life we had today, did we do our duty or whatnot? Doesn't really seem so in case of random life.
To start with, it makes a difference for you.

Yes, we are animals. Yes, most of us will probably be forgotten eventually. While we're here, however, we have the chance to give our life a sense and a purpose.

You seem to be saying humans are unable to find a sense or a purpose for their own lives in a scenario without a deity. That anybody could think that I find extremely sad.
03-26-2012 07:47 PM
Time Violation
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Mozart is just an example, there are many famous people with similar or even more tragic stories - Tesla, Oscar Wilde, Van Gogh, Kafka, etc - just to name a few everyone knows.

What am I talking about? What is my point? Not just about God as depicted on someone's avatar, painting or whatever. If life is just a random event, with no "bigger picture" involved, then we really are not too different than the mentioned worms or roaches - we run around this planet without much sense or purpose. In 50 to 60 years, >90% of MTF users (for example) will be dead anyway; what kind of life they had, whether it was "improved" or not matters little. Do you know what kind of life your ancestor from XII century had? Or your ancestor from VIII century b.c.? Do you care? 5000 years later, is anyone going to care what life we had today, did we do our duty or whatnot? Doesn't really seem so in case of random life.
03-26-2012 05:46 PM
Har-Tru
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
No, I'm not missing it, more like you're stretching it. Mozart knows nothing about the millions, nor about the moving hearts or bliss. The last thing he remembers is dying in horrible pains. So much for the bliss.
May I remind you that this discussion started when you stated that there can be no sense of duty in life without a God. That some people die without knowing they have been so influential and their life has had such a purpose is irrelevant. Unless you're saying that it doesn't matter whether you change the world if you don't see it in your lifetime.

By the way I used the world bliss when referring to the effects of Mozart's life work, not when talking about Mozart himself. Cheeky manipulation there.

No wonder you picked Mozart though, instead of Einstein or Shakespeare, who, like most influential people did witness the significance of their work in their lifetime.

Quote:
A cockroach or a earthworm indeed (most likely) doesn't know what it does, what it does or why it does. So what? Do they have to know? Should an earthworm reflect on its actions and consequences? People maybe can reflect and compose symphonies, however an earthworm can bore through the ground and stay alive after you cut it in two; should the earthworm pride itself for being able to do that, while we can't?
You what?? What is your point? I was talking about people, not cockroaches or worms.

Quote:
What I find very amusing, is that at the same time you seem to be rejecting the possibility of a higher being, yet convinced we have some kind of our higher purpose. That's pretty much the same (or very similar) thing.
It is, if you want to play around with the English language.

It isn't, if you identify higher being with supernatural creator-God.
03-26-2012 08:32 AM
Time Violation
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
You're missing the point completely...

Of course Mozart died young, poor and sick. Quite probably, he did not have a very happy life. But just stop and think about the happiness and sense of joy he's brought to millions of people around the world with his music. He has been moving hearts and providing human beings with a sense of bliss like few individuals have done in history.

Humans are social beings. Mozart is eternal, for his legacy lives on in our societies and has an influence on them.
No, I'm not missing it, more like you're stretching it. Mozart knows nothing about the millions, nor about the moving hearts or bliss. The last thing he remembers is dying in horrible pains. So much for the bliss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
How can you possibly say such a thing?

There is none, if you don't want to give it any. A cockroach doesn't know what it is or what it does, or why it does what it does. We humans do. We have the extraordinary capacity to reflect upon our actions and their consequences, to look around us and ask questions about the world, about ourselves, our fellow human beings... we are able to feel love and hatred, compassion and ire, pride and despair, etc., etc.

Only if we accept reality for what it is will we truly excel as human beings. I find it an extremely limited, sad and depressing view that we are merely creatures made by a superior supernatural being, and that our ultimate duty is to please him and adore him so that he may grant us access into his happy place, and not send us into eternal torment.
A cockroach or a earthworm indeed (most likely) doesn't know what it does, what it does or why it does. So what? Do they have to know? Should an earthworm reflect on its actions and consequences? People maybe can reflect and compose symphonies, however an earthworm can bore through the ground and stay alive after you cut it in two; should the earthworm pride itself for being able to do that, while we can't?

What I find very amusing, is that at the same time you seem to be rejecting the possibility of a higher being, yet convinced we have some kind of our higher purpose. That's pretty much the same (or very similar) thing.
03-26-2012 08:00 AM
Har-Tru
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
Not sure what makes you draw such a conclusion, it looks pretty much out of place. Since there's no deity or "higher plan" or any of that as you say, then we can't really have any duty, same as a cockroach has no duty when it runs around the kitchen. There's no reason to think our running around should be any better than a cockroach's.
How can you possibly say such a thing?

There is none, if you don't want to give it any. A cockroach doesn't know what it is or what it does, or why it does what it does. We humans do. We have the extraordinary capacity to reflect upon our actions and their consequences, to look around us and ask questions about the world, about ourselves, our fellow human beings... we are able to feel love and hatred, compassion and ire, pride and despair, etc., etc.

Only if we accept reality for what it is will we truly excel as human beings. I find it an extremely limited, sad and depressing view that we are merely creatures made by a superior supernatural being, and that our ultimate duty is to please him and adore him so that he may grant us access into his happy place, and not send us into eternal torment.

Let us rise to the occasion and accept that we are evolved apes in a tiny spec of dust within this immense universe. Only then will we be able to fully thrive as a species and progress.

Quote:
Moreover, there's no surviving death either: what does it matter to Mozart that he's one of the greatest living composers now, when he died before he turned 36, suffering in pain and spending most of his life in poverty; buried in a common grave with almost no one attending the funeral. He's dead, so he can't really know anything that happened later on, can he?
You're missing the point completely...

Of course Mozart died young, poor and sick. Quite probably, he did not have a very happy life. But just stop and think about the happiness and sense of joy he's brought to millions of people around the world with his music. He has been moving hearts and providing human beings with a sense of bliss like few individuals have done in history.

Humans are social beings. Mozart is eternal, for his legacy lives on in our societies and has an influence on them.

Which brings me back to the first point. That is, I say, the duty that we humans have in this world, and what gives our life a sense of purpose. Make your best to make this world and this society a better place. "Act so, that you maximise the well-being of the highest possible number of conscious creatures." Achieve something, don't just pass by.
03-26-2012 07:19 AM
Time Violation
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
I believe it to be not only our right, but also our duty as humans to do the best we can to contribute to the advancement and flourishing of our species. What better way to survive death than by leaving a mark in the memories of our fellow human beings. Is Mark Twain dead? Einstein? Aristotle? Shakespeare?

This is the only life we've got, so we ought to live it to its fullest and make the best of it.
Not sure what makes you draw such a conclusion, it looks pretty much out of place. Since there's no deity or "higher plan" or any of that as you say, then we can't really have any duty, same as a cockroach has no duty when it runs around the kitchen. There's no reason to think our running around should be any better than a cockroach's.

Moreover, there's no surviving death either: what does it matter to Mozart that he's one of the greatest living composers now, when he died before he turned 36, suffering in pain and spending most of his life in poverty; buried in a common grave with almost no one attending the funeral. He's dead, so he can't really know anything that happened later on, can he?
03-26-2012 04:08 AM
Naudio Spanlatine
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn View Post
And I thought we were getting along so well...
We are i just like to test you
03-26-2012 01:59 AM
tripwires
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
How about I show you a full course on Death by Professor Kagan.
Thanks for this. I didn't know there are multiple videos so I was a bit confused when I was watching that video you posted, until I went to YouTube and found the rest of it. I like the way he sits cross-legged on the table when he lectures.

Quote:
I got what you mean.

There is a quote that is often attributed to Mark Twain (though I personally it to be misattributed): “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”

When I die, I will not know I'm dead. Death is only significant insofar as it is related to life. I think you are right in that religious people might have a better chance at coping with death based on their beliefs in an afterlife. But I cannot help what I believe, and I certainly cannot believe in something just because it makes me feel good or I find it reassuring.

What I find rather striking, however, is the realisation that religious people do not seem to fear death less than atheists do. Surely they ought to congratulate themselves in the prospect of eternal bliss in paradise. But they overwhelmingly don't...
It's this thing that they say in response to news of a young person's impending death from a sudden disease - that it's "God's plan" - and the way they say it that seem to suggest that they are more adept at dealing with deaths than atheists. As an atheist though I can't help but find that highly offensive even though they don't mean any offence by it. Apart from how it makes no sense to me and therefore doesn't bring me any sort of comfort and in fact does the opposite, how do you reconcile the early, needless and cruel termination of a young life with a deity that apparently "planned" for it to happen? Doesn't that make a mockery out of life? How is that comforting in any way?

If it is indeed true that they don't fear death any less than us, then I don't see the point in having a religion at all.

Quote:
Let me ask you something though, what do you mean but "normal atheists"? Are you an "abnormal atheist"? What does that mean?
Sorry that was badly phrased - I meant ordinary atheists who aren't famous for writing books on atheism, like Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens.

Quote:
EDIT: That is one of the main issues I have with Christianity. Christianity has at its core the concept of redemption and the quest for salvation. Life is merely a transitional step, a stepping stone, a test for admission into the real life, the one that we shall experience eternally in paradise or in hell. That is such a limited and limiting view, it is phantasmagorically depressing to the point of being wicked. It deprives life of its meaning by turning it into a sort of a mixture between a rat lab experiment, an agility contest and a puppet show.

You and me and every single one of the 7 billion people on this planet are extremely fortunate to be individuals of the more highly evolved creature on this spec of dust. We exist for a brief period of time in the vastness of history, and then we're gone. Inevitably. I believe it to be not only our right, but also our duty as humans to do the best we can to contribute to the advancement and flourishing of our species. What better way to survive death than by leaving a mark in the memories of our fellow human beings. Is Mark Twain dead? Einstein? Aristotle? Shakespeare?

This is the only life we've got, so we ought to live it to its fullest and make the best of it.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
03-25-2012 11:14 PM
Gagsquet
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

Battle of giants
03-25-2012 10:08 PM
BigJohn
Re: What do you feel about Filo V's current avatar?

And I thought we were getting along so well...
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