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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-16-2012 11:12 PM
Lestat
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by August View Post
Seriously, who's gonna play there. For a HC player, it makes no sense to go to Bogota when US HC events start already the next week. And clay vultures are having the European post-Wimby clay vulturing swing.
a bunch of SA players for sure, it will get a weak-as-hell draw as Belgrade.
No offense, but shit tournament.
12-16-2012 03:48 PM
alfonsojose
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovetheblues_86 View Post
Colombia is like the 52th American state.
Sure. I'm going to kill those loud little kids in the elementary school next door with my grandma's AK-47. God Bless America
12-16-2012 01:38 PM
duong
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by August View Post
MTFer who 's against vulturing.
corrected : who kept on and on and on repeating and popularizing that theory about "vulturing", seeems very effective (much more effective than the so-called "vulturing strategy" )

Several of us answered with many arguments and facts, including many numbers, but facts and numbers are powerless : the power of seducive theories is so high, it's the application of the political "story-telling" strategy to MTF.
12-16-2012 01:30 PM
August
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by fran70 View Post
what is "lenders"?
MTFer who's against vulturing.
12-16-2012 01:18 PM
fran70
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
my problem was not the word, but precisely what you describe, which imo is wrong on the ATP main tour (it exists in challengers but the structure of the main tour makes that optional tournaments other than grand slams and mandatory tournaments have a too small weight, and also the difference between the quality of the tournaments is not as high as in challengers ; besides, the factor which people keep on never considering in those so-called "strategies" is money, not rankings), but well clearly I can't do anything against Lenders' persuading power
what is "lenders"?
12-16-2012 12:59 PM
duong
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by fran70 View Post
I guess I used incorrectly the word opportunist. What I wanted to mean, on other words, that certain players tend to play on small tournaments where they get points easily. That is part of their strategy and if the do it in a different way probably they would not be ranked where they are right now. That's my point of view.
my problem was not the word, but precisely what you describe, which imo is wrong on the ATP main tour (it exists in challengers but the structure of the main tour makes that optional tournaments other than grand slams and mandatory tournaments have a too small weight, and also the difference between the quality of the tournaments is not as high as in challengers ; besides, the factor which people keep on never considering in those so-called "strategies" is money, not rankings), but well clearly I can't do anything against Lenders' persuading power
12-16-2012 12:53 PM
fran70
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
about the southAmerican swing moving to december, we talked about it here :

http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...=208844&page=5

it looked on a good way as you will see.

As for Bogota replacing Los Angeles, if we agree that the safety concern is not a big concern, there are two arguments not to go there :
- the altitude
- the distance

I'm not sure they are that strong arguments, when in the meantime the Bogota organizer seems to have a lot of money

And Querrey, Isner, Anderson or Muller look to me as the typical players who played in Los Angeles.

The notion of "opportunist players", what others call "vulture", drives me crazy on this board, as it's so so exaggerated ... or diminished, as many players are like that, I can't understand why people really think that some players like Monaco (who actually didn't play that many tournaments previous years) are that more "opportunist" than others. I can't believe how many people speak about those supposed "vultures"

As for Monaco and claycourt players, Bogota will be the same week as Hamburg then surely they will go to play Hamburg.
I guess I used incorrectly the word opportunist. What I wanted to mean, on other words, that certain players tend to play on small tournaments where they get points easily. That is part of their strategy and if the do it in a different way probably they would not be ranked where they are right now. That's my point of view.
12-16-2012 12:21 PM
philosophicalarf
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Another factor is that above 1200m or so altitude balls come into play, which doesn't help anyone who plans to play all the following weeks. An alternative is using a type 3 ball (ie the larger category of balls), which have been legal for a decade but aren't used anywhere else.

Going to be amusingly quick up there if they don't, a nice difference from the rest of the tour. I hope Isner plays it once, his second serve would jump like a gazelle.


Presumably a nice + for Bogota in terms of attracting crowds is having Falla/Giraldo, and perhaps Robert Farah and Alejandro Gonzalez in a year or two.
12-16-2012 09:45 AM
duong
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by fran70 View Post
Hi Duong
I know that they need to buy the licence of an existing tournament in order to get a new one. But I don't see that it may work in the case of Bogota.

Hard court players that do it on the American swing are going to take it as a gap week in order to rest and prepare for Atlanta and so on.

The height of Bogota is another reason (2600 metres above sea level) that is not helping either. I don't think that players would not go there due to safety reasons (the political and criminal situation of Bogota is not the same as it used to be in the past).

I see oportunist players like Monaco or Tipsarevic or the ones that their serve can give them an extra benefit like Querrey, Isner, Anderson or Muller going there than players like the ones that you could see in 2010/2012 draw in LA.

I think that is great to have Bogota in the schedule but probably as you say things may look different with the licence on their pocket after a potential reorganization of the schedule in 2014.

At the same time it's a shame to lose a traditionals tournament like LA (and San Jose in 2014) of the schedule. When the new schedule is released for 2014 probably they could have move it to the American swing of February.

Are you sure that they want to move the South American swing to December in 2014? That would be really a shame as it is working really well as it is right now . at the same time the South American swing will be stronger with Santiago, San Pablo, Buenos Aires, Acapulco, Bogota and Rio replacing San Jose
about the southAmerican swing moving to december, we talked about it here :

http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...=208844&page=5

it looked on a good way as you will see.

As for Bogota replacing Los Angeles, if we agree that the safety concern is not a big concern, there are two arguments not to go there :
- the altitude
- the distance

I'm not sure they are that strong arguments, when in the meantime the Bogota organizer seems to have a lot of money

And Querrey, Isner, Anderson or Muller look to me as the typical players who played in Los Angeles.

The notion of "opportunist players", what others call "vulture", drives me crazy on this board, as it's so so exaggerated ... or diminished, as many players are like that, I can't understand why people really think that some players like Monaco (who actually didn't play that many tournaments previous years) are that more "opportunist" than others. I can't believe how many people speak about those supposed "vultures"

As for Monaco and claycourt players, Bogota will be the same week as Hamburg then surely they will go to play Hamburg.
12-16-2012 09:29 AM
fran70
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaliia View Post
srsly, what is wrong with people questioning bogota's safety

drugs produced by gangs in bogota are distributed by gangs in los angeles

same shit if you ask me

and as far as i know life, same players will show up, yes.
Totally agree. I'd been in Colombia a few months ago and I felt safe on there. I find cities like my home one Buenos Aires and even San Pablo more dangerous than Bogota on these days.
12-16-2012 09:26 AM
fran70
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilovetheblues_86 View Post
Colombia is like the 52th American state.
Colombians will love this post
12-16-2012 09:21 AM
fran70
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
the company from Bogota wanted to have a tournament for long but you need to buy an existing tournament "license" for that, and they bought the one from Los Angeles.

Not sure if they can change their date in the scheme of the ATP-calendar reform where there should be a december-southAmerican swing from what we heard.
Hi Duong
I know that they need to buy the licence of an existing tournament in order to get a new one. But I don't see that it may work in the case of Bogota.

Hard court players that do it on the American swing are going to take it as a gap week in order to rest and prepare for Atlanta and so on.

The height of Bogota is another reason (2600 metres above sea level) that is not helping either. I don't think that players would not go there due to safety reasons (the political and criminal situation of Bogota is not the same as it used to be in the past).

I see oportunist players like Monaco or Tipsarevic or the ones that their serve can give them an extra benefit like Querrey, Isner, Anderson or Muller going there than players like the ones that you could see in 2010/2012 draw in LA.

I think that is great to have Bogota in the schedule but probably as you say things may look different with the licence on their pocket after a potential reorganization of the schedule in 2014.

At the same time it's a shame to lose a traditionals tournament like LA (and San Jose in 2014) of the schedule. When the new schedule is released for 2014 probably they could have move it to the American swing of February.

Are you sure that they want to move the South American swing to December in 2014? That would be really a shame as it is working really well as it is right now . at the same time the South American swing will be stronger with Santiago, San Pablo, Buenos Aires, Acapulco, Bogota and Rio replacing San Jose
12-15-2012 10:48 PM
Ilovetheblues_86
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Colombia is like the 52th American state.
12-15-2012 10:45 PM
Nathaliia
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

srsly, what is wrong with people questioning bogota's safety

drugs produced by gangs in bogota are distributed by gangs in los angeles

same shit if you ask me

and as far as i know life, same players will show up, yes.
12-15-2012 06:33 PM
August
Re: Bogota to replace the Los Angeles tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
this tournament will be filled by mugs trying to get an HC title, just imagine Monaco getting this title
Seriously, who's gonna play there. For a HC player, it makes no sense to go to Bogota when US HC events start already the next week. And clay vultures are having the European post-Wimby clay vulturing swing.
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