Joint Men and Women tournements-Why arent there more? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Joint Men and Women tournements-Why arent there more?

case
03-11-2007, 04:43 PM
With all the talk of trying to promote the ATP it seems to me the WTA/ATP might be the easiest way to grow mens tennis.

The WTA might have a larger fan base.
Many prefer womens tennis over mens.
The media exposure would be twice as much.
Cost of producing the tournament be actually less when taking into account more revenue.
Sex sells-like it or not Sharapova generates coverage. So do the Williams sisters.
Losing big names doesnt have as big an impact when there are more big names in the other genders half.

I dont get why the ATP/WTA seem to avoid each other so much




Sorry if this has been posted before. Sorry i misspelled tournaments!

Action Jackson
03-11-2007, 04:47 PM
There are too many combined events at the moment and they are going to be more.

case
03-11-2007, 04:51 PM
There are too many combined events at the moment and they are going to be more.

Too many? the slams, IW, Miami I cant think of any others. What six tournaments out of how many.

Drop the smaller tournaments and make BIG splashy tournaments.
Why not make the year end tournaments Joint?

Action Jackson
03-11-2007, 04:59 PM
Too many? the slams, IW, Miami I cant think of any others. What six tournaments out of how many.

Drop the smaller tournaments and make BIG splashy tournaments.
Why not make the year end tournaments Joint?

Sydney is joint, Brisbane-Gold Coast (2009) will be joint, as will some others. It's still too many.

The Slams fair enough as combined events, but that's enough.

Most of thw WTA fans are just fanboys/fangirls and a smaller percentage actually watch it for the tennis in comparison to the ATP and the ATP has more than enough fanboys/girls of its own.

Why increase the time for people that have to watch the men play training sets when it will be a better standard than the average WTA match. Or more time at the bar and also the food places will be packed when the women are on.

The Germans and Italians have it right when they play their womens events.

keqtqiadv
03-11-2007, 05:07 PM
WTA :yawn:

AnnaK_4ever
03-11-2007, 06:06 PM
Too many? the slams, IW, Miami I cant think of any others. What six tournaments out of how many.


Sydney, Memphis, Acapulco, Rosmalen, Moscow, Tokyo...

Saumon
03-11-2007, 06:17 PM
Sydney, Memphis, Acapulco, Rosmalen, Moscow, Tokyo...

Estoril too..

Joint tournaments are good for ATP players dating WTA players. But for me it's boring women's matches that fuck up the OOP :ras:

danton
03-11-2007, 06:23 PM
Maybe there are not enough places with enough courts to support both tournaments?

shonami slam
03-11-2007, 06:27 PM
Sydney is joint, Brisbane-Gold Coast (2009) will be joint, as will some others. It's still too many.

The Slams fair enough as combined events, but that's enough.

Most of thw WTA fans are just fanboys/fangirls and a smaller percentage actually watch it for the tennis in comparison to the ATP and the ATP has more than enough fanboys/girls of its own.

Why increase the time for people that have to watch the men play training sets when it will be a better standard than the average WTA match. Or more time at the bar and also the food places will be packed when the women are on.

The Germans and Italians have it right when they play their womens events.

I'd attack you if this was wtaworld forum debate.
but for now, i'll be polite.

the slams are difficult times for women's tour followers.
two no-name players with ball bashing average tennis playing five-setters, going on and on without even as dealing with injuries to at least add some fiestiness to it, and without the drama of the much out-spoken women we learned to love. it's awful.
on the atp circuit side - there they go holding to love, serving aces down the T all day long. the match is usually no more than 2 breaks, and even though you guys chatter along how great this or that serves, generally speaking the men's game is alove only thanks to second serves that can be attackes. thank god at least pim pim and karlovic are flat out ace servers that aren't hiding behind rally skills cliche's.

i agree most fans of the wta tour are fan boys and girls. that's also because there are more players to actually like. most top50 men players are carbon copies of dull tennis. the women's tour is still sloppy enough to allow different kinds of tennis - generally speaking, i find the 50-100 ranked women of far more interest than the men's lower ranked players.

now, saying the wta has plenty of outragously boring, not to mention stupid fans, is an understatment.
however, just post a thread reading "Gasquet will win more grand slams than Safin because he has a better backhand" and watch MTF go mental with non relevant threads concerning the sexy smiles of the russian giant VS the flamboyant ways of the frenchman. there are more than enough idiots following tennis, men or women.
i'd love to have a "must know who Edberg and Novotna were" sign at the entrance of a tourny-site gate. but the reality is that those poor sould are the ones letting us have the benifits of tennis popularity. these slobs watch tennis, and for me, i don't mind watching Ivanovic 20 times a year, as long as i get one Vinci match against Sugiyama, and seeing a 16 year old prodigy play live from Moscow against a much older and experienced...well - 18 year old.

i don't want joint events as well - but please, you cannot claim we have the worst fans. they just about fall the same in both sides.

p.s - our fat Bartoli is so much more fun than your fat dave, and for the record, and she loves cake.

FluffyYellowBall
03-11-2007, 06:34 PM
Wta needs to be broadcasted by itself because the mens game is "too fast" to follow. People who watch it for fun will prefer womens tennis and it would make broadcasting so difficult if there were more joined events

amalyn
03-11-2007, 06:44 PM
Estoril too..

Joint tournaments are good for ATP players dating WTA players. But for me it's boring women's matches that fuck up the OOP :ras:

Exactly how I feel. :cool: It's fine for the slams, but I'm already annoyed more often than not because there's an interesting men's match going on that I don't get to see because Sharapova is beating some random girl 6-1 6-2. :yawn: And I suppose a lot of WTA fans feel the same the other way around. ;)

Bobby
03-11-2007, 06:56 PM
[QUOTE=shonami slam;5009929]I'd attack you if this was wtaworld forum debate.
but for now, i'll be polite.

the slams are difficult times for women's tour followers.
two no-name players with ball bashing average tennis playing five-setters, going on and on without even as dealing with injuries to at least add some fiestiness to it, and without the drama of the much out-spoken women we learned to love. it's awful.
on the atp circuit side - there they go holding to love, serving aces down the T all day long. the match is usually no more than 2 breaks, and even though you guys chatter along how great this or that serves, generally speaking the men's game is alove only thanks to second serves that can be attackes. thank god at least pim pim and karlovic are flat out ace servers that aren't hiding behind rally skills cliche's.


I don't really understand what you are saying. But I'll take it that you are not a fan of the ATP tour.

case
03-11-2007, 07:07 PM
Sydney, Memphis, Acapulco, Rosmalen, Moscow, Tokyo...
forgot about sydney, but the others arent very big tournaments
and sydney is a warm up for AO

shonami slam
03-11-2007, 07:14 PM
i'm just moaning around, jumping to the defence of the wtatour.

i follow the atp generally. like evryone, i value federer highly in the history books, santoro makes me laugh, safin makes me cry, hate RR, cherish memories of doubles yesterdecade, and cannot understand how roddick still manages so well while doing nothing but serve.

i'm only in it for the hoy guys, really.

nisha
03-11-2007, 07:14 PM
becoz then the tend to sleep around too much?:shrug:

marti_228
03-11-2007, 07:15 PM
They are planning making more joint events named Nationals, I think bigger than a Master Series, for 2009.
What I like is that they are considering Buenos Aires as one location.

*Viva Chile*
03-11-2007, 07:21 PM
generally speaking, i find the 50-100 ranked women of far more interest than the men's lower ranked players.

you must be joking or be :cuckoo: for thinking something like that.

NicoFan
03-11-2007, 07:30 PM
They are planning making more joint events named Nationals, I think bigger than a Master Series, for 2009.
What I like is that they are considering Buenos Aires as one location.

Thanks for the info.

But I have to admit - I hate the combined events.

If I had my way - I would have separate tournaments including the Slams. I really can't stand to watch the women play except for a few of the women like Amelie, JH, and the Williams sisters.

AnnaK_4ever
03-11-2007, 07:37 PM
forgot about sydney, but the others arent very big tournaments
and sydney is a warm up for AO

But you need to have big facilties to hold joint event, esp. if it's Masters/Tier I tournaments with 64 players draws. Not many tournaments can afford this.

Galathea
03-11-2007, 08:06 PM
Sorry but what ATP are you talking about and also.. what WTA?!!
The last time I checked, you have players with great serve and "serve only" but this is not the time of serve-net only or pure serve where I could agree with your information. Affortunately that time is gone. Are you saying that players like Murray, Nadal, Nalbandian, Safin, Federer, Haas, Davydenko are only serve (specially Nalbo)?!!!!

Not to mention that women go and trow all to the middle of the body, maybe, just maybe (and by mistake) some slice... The women tennis today is a joke. Do you know that Graf, Sabatini, Alonso, Sanchez, Seles (I didn't like her, but still), etc are retired, right? That actual number one voley like this (see the body posture)
http://i15.tinypic.com/40o6nfm.jpg
and that's a fact that WTA can have players without basic hits because the level of competitions alow it?

Not to start a discussion because there's no discussion on this.
But honestly, I think the WTA you're talking about is the one from at least 7 years ago (and I'm generous)

Galathea
03-11-2007, 08:10 PM
Anyway, and back to topic (because this is not a WTA forum and also this is a long discussion), the problem for join events are locations: not all the places can have ATP and WTA playing at the same time. And often the scheduling is a problem, they can't manage to have a logic order of play for singles and doubles for one tour, less for two.

AnnaK_4ever
03-11-2007, 08:12 PM
Sorry but what ATP are you talking about and also.. what WTA?!!
The last time I checked, you have players with great serve and "serve only" but this is not the time of serve-net only or pure serve where I could agree with your information. Affortunately that time is gone. Are you saying that players like Murray, Nadal, Nalbandian, Safin, Federer, Haas, Davydenko are only serve (specially Nalbo)?!!!!


Out of your list Nadal, Safin and Davydenko are perfect examples of natural volleyers :rolleyes:
And of course Venus, Serena, Justine, Amelie, Nadia, Martina all are just hepless at the net :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Andre♥
03-11-2007, 08:15 PM
you must be joking or be :cuckoo: for thinking something like that.

Of course! Why? Because it's funnier!

ATP 56 vs ATP 67

ATP 56 wins 6:3 6:4 - 2 breaks of serve

WTA 56 vs WTA 67

WTA 67 wins 1:6 7:5 7:5

WTA 56 was leading 6:1 5:3, then she chokes to 6:1 5:7 0:5. Then she recovers to 5:5 and then gets broken with double faults

Breaks of serve: More than ten!

shonami slam
03-11-2007, 08:19 PM
don't fall for the easy trap - you say Sharapova, I say Roddick.
Henin is as complete a player as Federer is in terms of what she can do with the ball on both sides, and you won't convince me that davydenko is more versitile than Petrova, both career high #3.

Galathea
03-11-2007, 08:32 PM
don't fall for the easy trap - you say Sharapova, I say Roddick.
Henin is as complete a player as Federer is in terms of what she can do with the ball on both sides, and you won't convince me that davydenko is more versitile than Petrova, both career high #3.

If you think I'm going to argue with you after this message, you just proved me and all the people that is saying the same than me that we're right.
Basic point: what a woman player needs to compete? She can do it without BASIC hits (and I mean total lack of those hits, not bad hits. Just inexistent hits) due to the level of competition and have results with that, even against high ranked players, or get a high ranking.
The men can't. Not these days, there were times when I only watched women because the men annoyed me like hell. But today? Except some cases like Henin, Momo when she decides to play, Hingins and very few? Is the attack of the clones. All the same horrible technic and lacking of basics. And winning tournaments with that.
But again, not going to replay because we already discussed this a lot of times

Galathea
03-11-2007, 08:34 PM
They are planning making more joint events named Nationals, I think bigger than a Master Series, for 2009.
What I like is that they are considering Buenos Aires as one location.

One question, did you heard the duration of these events, meaning one or two weeks?

cmurray
03-11-2007, 08:36 PM
don't fall for the easy trap - you say Sharapova, I say Roddick.
Henin is as complete a player as Federer is in terms of what she can do with the ball on both sides, and you won't convince me that davydenko is more versitile than Petrova, both career high #3.

Justine is, of course, a treat in terms of tennis....and to a lesser extent, Momo and Hingis. But at the same time, I can't deny that watching, say, Shriekapova and Vaidisova bashing the ball back and forth at each other with no finesse and even less of a game plan is....uninspiring.

AnnaK_4ever
03-11-2007, 08:47 PM
Justine is, of course, a treat in terms of tennis....and to a lesser extent, Momo and Hingis. But at the same time, I can't deny that watching, say, Shriekapova and Vaidisova bashing the ball back and forth at each other with no finesse and even less of a game plan is....uninspiring.

At least they try to hit winners and go for their shots unlike one of your faves who's just running and running and moonballing 10 meters behind baseline until his opponent dies from this bore.

DrJules
03-11-2007, 08:51 PM
The 4 grand slams prove that combined events can work very well. I think a combined 16 players in each draw year end masters event would be an excellent finish to the year.

shonami slam
03-11-2007, 08:56 PM
Justine is, of course, a treat in terms of tennis....and to a lesser extent, Momo and Hingis. But at the same time, I can't deny that watching, say, Shriekapova and Vaidisova bashing the ball back and forth at each other with no finesse and even less of a game plan is....uninspiring.

yes, we have or illness as well.
but at least there are alot of people who dislike this bashing.
and believe me - sharapova and Vaidisova are bashing a it's best - as in, somewhat entertaining.
we have enough dull players as well, but they can never be strong enough to finish all points with an easy one&two at all times like men do.
watch Camille Pin, a frenchwoman nicknamed "powderpuff pin" on our boards - the girl has no bash whatsoever to her game. it's helpless, she couldn't hit a winner to save her life.
she still pushed the very same shriekapova to 9-7 in the final set.
she actually created interest, even if the match was poor.
generally speaking, the ball bashers have reasonable technique, even if they create a tour that is less interesting for fans.
most ATP matches are filled with winners, since the men are strong enough to hit through an opponent.
most WTA matches are filled with errors, vecause when the ball keeps coming back, there is more chances to hit out or into the net.

and as for Galathea - sadly, declaring "if you reply, thus my point is valid and correct" is not exactly discussion, nor of any logic.
it merely means you should grow up.
the recent winners on the wtatour were all of very fine technique - Vinci, Shvedova, Chakvetadze, Jankovic - all winners of lower tiers.
the big tourny winners, well - they are text book stuff.

but thankfully, other people noted that this is not a wta forum, and that this is not the right place for this debate, so you're very welcome not to reply as you declared.

as for the techichal aspects - It is possible to have two events at the same time in lower tour events as well. Sopot had a women's event as well for a few years, though i'm not certain if it was officially a joint event, or even if it was played in the same week.
the downfall is that less people get to see any kind of tennis.
in Israel - coming to Ramat Hasharon for tennis seams logical - it's a small country - but reducing toronto and montreol into one big joint event like suggested last year is doing one of these cities a great harm.

also mentionable is having joint indoor events - some of these events have very few courts, and very few seats as well.
you can't have such a hug event played for less than a few hundred spectators.

cmurray
03-11-2007, 08:57 PM
At least they try to hit winners and go for their shots unlike one of your faves who's just running and running and moonballing 10 meters behind baseline until his opponent dies from this bore.

Okay. I'm stumped. What in the world does Nadal's running have to do with Sharapova and her completely mindless game? Even if Rafa were everything you just pointed out (which he isn't), it wouldn't make Sharapova's game any more inspiring.

AnnaK_4ever
03-11-2007, 09:04 PM
Okay. I'm stumped. What in the world does Nadal's running have to do with Sharapova and her completely mindless game? Even if Rafa were everything you just pointed out (which he isn't), it wouldn't make Sharapova's game any more inspiring.

He is.

And I can accept complaints about Sharapova's 'uninspiring' game from Federer, Haas, Nalbandian, Baghdatis, Djokovic, Youzhny fans. But when Nadal's fan accuses the other player of 'mindless' tennis it's just ridiculous.

cmurray
03-11-2007, 09:05 PM
yes, we have or illness as well.
but at least there are alot of people who dislike this bashing.
and believe me - sharapova and Vaidisova are bashing a it's best - as in, somewhat entertaining.



I wasn't having a go at women's tennis as a whole. I truly enjoy Juju, Kim, Momo and Hingis. I even like watching Serena because she knows how to play smart tennis (though this has not always been the case).

As for the fact that women's matches are often rife with UEs....part of it is probably as you say - the ball just comes back more, thereby giving the women greater opportunity for error. But I also think it has to do with the fact that some of those women "go for" winners too early in the point, or worse when they're out of position. This seems to be happening more and more frequently as the "ball bashers" have become more plentiful.

cmurray
03-11-2007, 09:06 PM
He is.

And I can accept complaints about Sharapova's 'uninspiring' game from Federer, Haas, Nalbandian, Baghdatis, Djokovic, Youzhny fans. But when Nadal's fan accuses the other player of 'mindless' tennis it's just ridiculous.

Do tell. Well, I happen to be a fan of Misha, Marcos and Haas as well. I guess you'll have to accept my "complaints".

AnnaK_4ever
03-11-2007, 09:15 PM
Do tell. Well, I happen to be a fan of Misha, Marcos and Haas as well. I guess you'll have to accept my "complaints".

Only from one fourth of you then :lol:

cmurray
03-11-2007, 09:16 PM
Only from one fourth of you then :lol:

;)

Galathea
03-11-2007, 09:28 PM
and as for Galathea - sadly, declaring "if you reply, thus my point is valid and correct" is not exactly discussion, nor of any logic.
it merely means you should grow up.


Thanks but I don't need to grow up. I did it and watching actually good tennis from women.
And read better, because that's not what I said, I said I wasn't going to reply about the subjet anymore because, as I said this is not a WTA forum and this is a long discussion that always shows up. That there's no dicussion about it, no point in following this.
Better you grow up and learn to read what people post before insulting, doncha think?!

marti_228
03-11-2007, 10:08 PM
One question, did you heard the duration of these events, meaning one or two weeks?

I heard about this a few months ago and I really don't remember.

Those who are saying that women tennis is more exciting are completely crazy.The fact the matches have a lot of breaks doesn't mean they are great "fighters". Nowadays, most of the women only play the who-hits-harder and-doesn't-choke game. That's why Sharapova who is like 1.88 m (too abnormal for a woman) wins, with that height of course you are going to hit hard, and struggles with Hingis, Henin, Mauresmo or Clijsters if they are playing well. Those 4 are the only players who are actually enjoyable to watch, who have volley or an amazing backhand, or a slice, or a dropshot! Then Sharapova was destroyed by S Williams in the AO because the American has more muscles than Nadal and was playing at her best.
Even Sabatini admitted that women tennis is not particulary at its best.

Action Jackson
03-12-2007, 06:15 AM
Brainless ball bashing is the domain of the WTA especially among the top apart from Hingis, Henin, Mauresmo and the Schynder.

Jlee
03-12-2007, 06:23 AM
I like the idea for the year end championships, possibly.

And I like watching good women's tennis. The early rounds of WTA tournaments tend not to have much good tennis, but the later rounds do. Not all the women bash the ball with no specific gameplan. The ATP went through a phase like that too. :shrug:

GlennMirnyi
03-12-2007, 06:25 AM
Because the events would go bankrupt.

ServeAlready81
03-12-2007, 06:26 AM
I think there are enough combined events, plus I'm sure the tournament directors of Rome, Dubai, Paris, Tokyo among others wouldn't want to cut their profits in half by having 1 event a year instead of 2.

~EMiLiTA~
03-12-2007, 07:36 AM
i hate combined tournaments...i wish there would be less