Korolev interview to Russian press [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Korolev interview to Russian press

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AnnaK_4ever
03-05-2007, 01:46 AM
It's in Russian originally but here are some quotes from Korolev interview to "Sport-Express":

"The rules were known before tournament' start. Yes, they are complicated and far from optimal, I believe. I knew if del Potro retired I would advance to the quarters... I was following the match via internet and when Blake had led 6-1 1-0 I was off to the club to receive prize money and papers for next tournament. And all of sudden I met del Potro who said, "You are through". "How? What happenned", I asked. He said, "I have breathe problems".

"Then I came up to James and said, "Sorry but that's it". He replied, "They are still discussing". "Discussing what?" "Who's gonna advance." "But according to the rules it's me, isn't it? If I am wrong then I accept it cos it's really not fair towards you".

"Later I've been told Blake got angry after the match and went to supervisor to appeal the rules. Of course he was leading and should win eventually but rules are the rules. Also I've been told ATP chairman changed them by one phone call and decided James would play.

"I was unhappy with that decision, of course. And I was supported by Safin, Hewitt and Johansson. I wanna thank Marat especially. He came to me and said, "Come with me. We need to solve all this". He very softly told them everything he thought of this situation. He asked them how could they do that and who gave them a right to change the rules mid-tournament?
"I also got in touch with my agents and they helped me too. One of them woke me up at 5 a.m. and said, "You will play". At 6 a.m. Mark Derby called me and said de Villiers changed his mind in my favor. The next one who called me was de Villiers himself. He apologized and said he did what he thought would be the best thing.

"They had meeting in Dubai with Federer and other guys taking part in it. All of them said it was me who should play by the rules. They contacted de Villiers and came to conclusion nobody was allowed to change the rules in the middle of tournament.

"I haven't met Blake since Thursday when we both still thought he came through. I told him I couldn't be satisfied obviously but wished him luck for the rest of tournament.

"I don't want to discuss whether Blake was right or not. The fact that James talked to the officials and probably phoned to ATP was kind of natural decision. He stated the rules had a hole. What else could he do? Anyway, I hope we got each other right."

http://www.sport-express.ru/art.shtml?135413

Socket
03-05-2007, 01:59 AM
Mystery solved.

Blake, you're an asshole jerk.

Horatio Caine
03-05-2007, 02:00 AM
Sounds like Blake was interested only in himself there...but obviously this is one side of the story :shrug:

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 02:00 AM
This thread will explode soon. :lol: Nice that the older guys gave Evgeny a hand.

Jlee
03-05-2007, 02:01 AM
It's a little choppy and there are some assumptions made about Blake's conduct. For instance, Korolev doesn't state that he knew it was James who made the call. It's possible that Blake was complaining and the call was made.

I'm disappointed in Blake if he did what it sounds like he did. Bravo to Marat and, apparently, Federer in Dubai for influencing the decision to follow the rules. They did what James should have done in protecting a young player. :yeah:

Thank you for that :)

Shrinking Violet
03-05-2007, 02:04 AM
Korolev and the guys who stuck up for him are the only ones who come out of this with any credit whatsoever. Interesting to hear about the meeting in Dubai - that had to be interesting.

I hope Blake comes out and explains his side of the story because everything that's come out so far does not leave him looking very good and Evgeny is being much more understanding to his part in it than anyone could reasonably be expected to.

OddJob
03-05-2007, 02:05 AM
I guess Blake actually had something to do with getting the rules changed. How very disappointing.....:o

shotgun
03-05-2007, 02:10 AM
Mystery solved.

Blake, you're an asshole.

:lol:

*Viva Chile*
03-05-2007, 02:10 AM
Evgeny, you're a classy mate :yeah:

Socket
03-05-2007, 02:11 AM
OK, maybe that was harsh.

Jerk, not asshole. :angel:

Kalliopeia
03-05-2007, 02:13 AM
So, Blake went and lobbied against the rules. Nice.

I wonder who else was part of the meeting in Dubai?

And...could I love Marat any more? No, I fear I cannot. Feel free to try and prove me wrong though, Marat. :hearts: :lol:

Thanks for posting this, AnnaK_4ever.

Henry Chinaski
03-05-2007, 02:18 AM
It wasn't exactly a completely selfless move by Hewitt and Safin. It's natural that they'd want to see the top seed eliminated. No need to portray them as heroes standing up for the little guy.

amierin
03-05-2007, 02:27 AM
It sounds like the players in Dubai had a meeting. Who was still there? We know Roger was there. Was Rafa still there when this went down or had he left? Youzhny would have been there as well.

And I'm sorry, one more reason to have nothing but respect for Marat Safin.

James you don't come out of this looking good at all.

euroka1
03-05-2007, 02:30 AM
It does sound as if Blake was inappropriately activist in all of this. It would be good to get a straight story.

Did Korelev get to keep the disappearance money?

amierin
03-05-2007, 02:30 AM
It wasn't exactly a completely selfless move by Hewitt and Safin. It's natural that they'd want to see the top seed eliminated. No need to portray them as heroes standing up for the little guy.

Rules are rules. As player rep Blake is sworn to uphold them yet it appears more and more that he was involved in trying to get the rules bent to favor him.

He should not speak out on this anymore at this point.

Kalliopeia
03-05-2007, 02:36 AM
It wasn't exactly a completely selfless move by Hewitt and Safin. It's natural that they'd want to see the top seed eliminated. No need to portray them as heroes standing up for the little guy.

Well, Blake isn't exactly Federer. Safin's 2-2 against him, and Hewitt is 7-1. I doubt either of them were inordinately afraid of playing him. And Marat at least knows and is friendly with Korolev.

amierin
03-05-2007, 02:42 AM
I don't think either Lleyton or Marat was afraid of playing Blake. I think what motivated Blake is easy to see when you look at the rankings. He wasn't going to win IW or Miami. He needed the win in Vegas to at least continue to tread water.

Bibberz
03-05-2007, 02:58 AM
James doesn't look good, but so many other players would have done the same thing. Let's not forget that. How do you think Marat would have handled it? I doubt he would have shrugged and hit the blackjack tables. I don't even want to know what Hewitt would have done--I'm picturing Mad Max for some reason.

nobama
03-05-2007, 03:01 AM
Why did players/officials from Dubai need to get involved? :confused:

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 03:01 AM
It wasn't exactly a completely selfless move by Hewitt and Safin. It's natural that they'd want to see the top seed eliminated. No need to portray them as heroes standing up for the little guy.

well, in any situation there will be someone who cowardly throws a stone into a back of the winner....

listen here--- safin did not care if he meets blake or someone else in the final (i am sure he did not plan to play the final :lol: at least from what i saw in his match against hewitt :p)... hewitt did not start thinking of whom he'll play against in the final because he was not aware safin was not planning to get into the final ;).... mmmmh.. are you saying johansson was scared of blake too? how about federer? youzhny? (i am sure he was in the that dubai' meeting)

korolev said-- all the players were outraged! :mad: it's normal reaction of the sports people! they all knew blake knew the rules... they all knew del potro really did feel bad and got sick... they all knew it was fair for korolev to advance... they all knew such a thing happened the week before with fereiro... they all knew the unbelievable change of rules in the middle of tourney was made for blake personally just because he is an american... and just because his opponent happened to be a 19 yo rookie... and for marat also just because his opponent happened to be a russian and marat knows very well how much de villiers loves russians.... and, well, i am afarid, they all knew what a piece of shit james blake is :p

believe that or not-- this was the case when players spoke out for justice :worship:

nobama
03-05-2007, 03:02 AM
James doesn't look good, but so many other players would have done the same thing. Let's not forget that. How do you think Marat would have handled it? I doubt he would have shrugged and hit the blackjack tables. I don't even want to know what Hewitt would have done--I'm picturing Mad Max for some reason.Well it's one thing to accept a bad decision when it's in your favor but to actively lobby for it...I hope Blake didn't do that. :(

2moretogo
03-05-2007, 03:02 AM
This is like watching a train wreck...

smh...

Lee
03-05-2007, 03:06 AM
"I don't want to discuss whether Blake was right or not. The fact that James talked to the officials and probably phoned to ATP was kind of natural decision. He stated the rules had a hole. What else could he do? Anyway, I hope we got each other right."

http://www.sport-express.ru/art.shtml?135413


Is it necessary for Korolev to say James prbably phoned ATP? Obviously, he is not sure and has no proof.

or that's lost in translation. :scratch:

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 03:06 AM
Why did players/officials from Dubai need to get involved? :confused:

players... korolev said it was an emergecy meeting of the players - federer and members of the players' council...

federer got involved because he is the king (and because safin called him :lol:) and because he was the only one whom atp would mmmh.. try to avoid to conflict with, and because roger realized de villiers and atp got too far with making the decisions that threatened the sport principles of tennis....

zicofirol
03-05-2007, 03:07 AM
"They had meeting in Dubai with Federer and other guys taking part in it. All of them said it was me who should play by the rules. They contacted de Villiers and came to conclusion nobody was allowed to change the rules in the middle of tournament.


LOL, as if other top players where needed to come to that decision, no meeting should be held, rules are rules, blake shouldnt of gone through in the first place, and then having a meeting in dubai with other top players to decide if it was the "right" decision only means mr. disney was intersted in the popularity of his decision, and not if it was right...

And I always assumed james lobbied on his behalf... which is pathetic knowing the rules where in place already...

amierin
03-05-2007, 03:07 AM
Who was still in Dubai? We know Fed, Youzhny, Soderling, Haas, Bhupati, Stepanek, Hanley, Ullyet, Knowles and Nestor, Zimonjic and Santoro were probably still there. Not sure if Rafa was still around.

This is a labor/management issue. By rights Korolev could demand an emergency meeting of the Player Council excluding the VP of the Player's Council who had sided with and appears to have instigated management to make a bad decision.

We may never know exactly who participated in the meeting but Roger is the man who spoke and no one has come forward to contradict anything he said.

Bibberz
03-05-2007, 03:10 AM
Well it's one thing to accept a bad decision when it's in your favor but to actively lobby for it...I hope Blake didn't do that. :(

You are right. I would find it unsettling if James did indeed actively lobby, especially if used his "native son" status as a means of influence. I don't think the truth will ever come out. If James did something this dastardly, he would surely deny (or downplay) it. The tournament and ATP will probably remain tight-lipped altogether.

Kalliopeia
03-05-2007, 03:11 AM
Why did players/officials from Dubai need to get involved? :confused:

Well, they met with Federer and Nadal and a few others when they first floated these ideas didn't they? Although it's not really the same thing, what the right thing to do was written right there in black and white in the rules, it wasn't something that needed to be decided by committee. Maybe de Villiers just wanted to get a sense of how badly he'd come out if all the big names were as disgusted by what happened as we all were.

shotgun
03-05-2007, 03:11 AM
Hey, why did they get in contact with Dubai but not with Acapulco??? Am I sensing some prejudice against dirtballers here? :armed: :lol:

Lee
03-05-2007, 03:13 AM
Hey, why did they get in contact with Dubai but not with Acapulco??? Am I sensing some prejudice against dirtballers here? :armed: :lol:

Roger Federer is not there. :p

Peacemaster
03-05-2007, 03:13 AM
Long live Marat, the Robin of the Hood!

Long live Roger, the Master of the Puppets!

:lol:

Serious point: I believe Marat's primary intention was to fight for the rights of a fellow Russian. Any other speculation is completely silly.

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 03:16 AM
Well it's one thing to accept a bad decision when it's in your favor but to actively lobby for it...I hope Blake didn't do that. :(

:o

comon, don't play naive! blake initiated this! no one would even think about such a crazy decision if not blake! :mad:

also, don't forget about lies ;) blake, your classy harvard or whatever you call him blake, did say he and del potro did not know that withdrawl will lead to korolev's advancing.. hewitt first accused him in liying.. korolev confirmed that-- he met del potro soon after the match and del potro said you'll go through.. then he saw blake and told him-- sorry about the situation, and blake told him -- it's not decided yet.. and after that blake said to the press he and del potro did not know the rules :p you know "he is a nice kid, if he known... bla-bla-bla"

nobama
03-05-2007, 03:16 AM
players... korolev said it was an emergecy meeting of the players - federer and members of the players' council...

federer got involved because he is the king (and because safin called him :lol:) and because he was the only one whom atp would mmmh.. try to avoid to conflict with, and because roger realized de villiers and atp got too far with making the decisions that threatened the sport principles of tennis....When did Safin call Federer? All I heard him say was 'wait until Roger and Andy (Roddick) find out'. :confused:

Kalliopeia
03-05-2007, 03:19 AM
When did Safin call Federer? All I heard him say was 'wait until Roger and Andy (Roddick) find out'. :confused:

I think that part was meant to be a joke...though I really really wish it were true. :)

Lee
03-05-2007, 03:19 AM
:o

comon, don't play naive! blake initiated this! no one would even think about such a crazy decision if not blake! :mad:

also, don't forget about lies ;) blake, your classy harvard or whatever you call him blake, did say he and del potro did not know that withdrawl will lead to korolev's advancing.. hewitt first accused him in liying.. korolev confirmed that-- he met del potro soon after the match and del potro said you'll go through.. then he saw blake and told him-- sorry about the situation, and blake told him -- it's not decided yet.. and after that blake said to the press he and del potro did not know the rules :p you know "he is a nice kid, if he known... bla-bla-bla"

By the time Korolev talked to Blake, Blake was informed about the retirement resulted in him being eliminated. So, not proof in Blake lying.

nobama
03-05-2007, 03:19 AM
:o

comon, don't play naive! blake initiated this! no one would even think about such a crazy decision if not blake! :mad:

also, don't forget about lies ;) blake, your classy harvard or whatever you call him blake, did say he and del potro did not know that withdrawl will lead to korolev's advancing.. hewitt first accused him in liying.. korolev confirmed that-- he met del potro soon after the match and del potro said you'll go through.. then he saw blake and told him-- sorry about the situation, and blake told him -- it's not decided yet.. and after that blake said to the press he and del potro did not know the rules :p you know "he is a nice kid, if he known... bla-bla-bla"
I'm sorry but we don't know for certain that Blake initiated this. And we probably never will know the full story. Right now we have one side of the story - Korolev's.

nobama
03-05-2007, 03:24 AM
We may never know exactly who participated in the meeting but Roger is the man who spoke and no one has come forward to contradict anything he said.He didn't speak about this meeting though. Someone asked him in his presser what he thought about what happened in Vegas and he responded. This is the first I've heard about him (or anyone else in Dubai) being involved with the decision to give back the QF spot to Korolev. I'm still not sure why Federer would need to be involved. :scratch:

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 03:25 AM
Is it necessary for Korolev to say James prbably phoned ATP? Obviously, he is not sure and has no proof.

or that's lost in translation. :scratch:

korolev did not say blake called de villiers.. he said-- as i was told later, blake got mad and approached the supervisor with protest against the result".... that is all he said about blake's actions but i think it's enough...

add here that korolev said he met blake shortly after the match, apologized to him for the unfortunate result but blake told him "it's not decided yet"...

it's clear, blake initiated it and lobbied it until federer got involved...

Hey, why did they get in contact with Dubai but not with Acapulco??? Am I sensing some prejudice against dirtballers here? :armed: :lol:

:lol:

i am also angry! why they needed a meeting in dubai?! why de viliers got scared of roger but did not get scared of marat! :armed: big mistake! next time marat will shoot him! :lol:

Long live Marat, the Robin of the Hood!

Long live Roger, the Master of the Puppets!

:lol:

Serious point: I believe Marat's primary intention was to fight for the rights of a fellow Russian. Any other speculation is completely silly.

:yeah:

Bibberz
03-05-2007, 03:29 AM
I'm sorry but we don't know for certain that Blake initiated this. And we probably never will know the full story. Right now we have one side of the story - Korolev's.

I certainly agree that we will probably never known the full story. However, it is worth mentioning that Korolev's account is the most credible. He's the "cleanest" of all involved, though that may not say much.

Lee
03-05-2007, 03:31 AM
korolev did not say blake called de villiers.. he said-- as i was told later, blake got mad and approached the supervisor with protest against the result".... that is all he said about blake's actions but i think it's enough...

add here that korolev said he met blake shortly after the match, apologized to him for the unfortunate result but blake told him "it's not decided yet"...

it's clear, blake initiated it and lobbied it until federer got involved...





If I am Blake and believed I should have advanced but ended up not, I would be mad and tried to do something about it. He felt injustice. (please remember he's entitled to be mad too) Just like Marat believed it's injustice that Korolev was denied to advance and he did something about it.

But if you want to persecute Blake and praise Marat, I don't have anymore to say. :shrug:

edit: Just want to clarify I don't agree with what Blake said after Mr. Disney had him advance and then retrack. But I understand his action in the beginning.

Socket
03-05-2007, 03:36 AM
I'm beginning to think that Blake isn't as popular in the locker room as his fawning press would have us believe, because the rest of the guys certainly roused themselves to shoot him down. :lol: After this little incident, he'll be lucky if any of the junior girls will hit with him. He's going to be completely radioactive. :lol:

It's really too bad that the Vegas event was covered on TTC, instead of ESPN, because I would really have loved to hear Patty-Mac try to talk his way out of this mess. :lol:

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 03:36 AM
I think that part was meant to be a joke...though I really really wish it were true. :)

yes, i t was a joke :o and yes, i wish it was true... :secret: i am pretty sure it's true :p

By the time Korolev talked to Blake, Blake was informed about the retirement resulted in him being eliminated. So, not proof in Blake lying.

repeat-- blake said at press conference that del potro did not know about the retirement rule otheriwse he would not have retired.... del potro knew about the rule, korolev met him right after the match... and blake knew about the rule... and all the players knew about it-- hewitt said they discussed it .... so, that was a lie and a very stupid one... blake had to lie because they needed some fancy cover for decision, and this one was the only they invented, not a great though... they did not have time to think this all through... and obviously, they forgot about fereiro case... one more proof how self-centered blake is :lol:

I'm sorry but we don't know for certain that Blake initiated this. And we probably never will know the full story. Right now we have one side of the story - Korolev's.

oki, you want to call black white, no problem! :mad: but don't try the others to believe in that too!

I'm still not sure why Federer would need to be involved. :scratch:

yep, right, he probably did not want to get involved :shrug: in fact, i was sure he won't get involved and even accused him in that :o then i had to say i was wrong :( now i think i was right since no. 1 fan of fed says he should not have been involved... :lol:

Socket
03-05-2007, 03:39 AM
If I am Blake and believed I should have advanced but ended up not, I would be mad and tried to do something about it. He felt injustice. (please remember he's entitled to be mad too) Just like Marat believed it's injustice that Korolev was denied to advance and he did something about it.

But if you want to persecute Blake and praise Marat, I don't have anymore to say. :shrug:

The difference between what Blake did and what Marat did is that Blake was trying to get a rule changed to his advantage, while Marat was trying to get the rules enforced to prevent a new kid from getting screwed. Sure, it's understandable that Blake got mad, because the rule is pretty ridiculous. But, for the integrity of the game, he should have just taken his lumps.

Lee
03-05-2007, 03:42 AM
The difference between what Blake did and what Marat did is that Blake was trying to get a rule changed to his advantage, while Marat was trying to get the rules enforced to prevent a new kid from getting screwed. Sure, it's understandable that Blake got mad, because the rule is pretty ridiculous. But, for the integrity of the game, he should have just taken his lumps.

It's not that easy. I was at the lose end of a very stupid tax rule. I tried everything I could to change it even though I knew it's not going to happen. But I would really berate myself if I did nothing or made some noise.

ys
03-05-2007, 03:43 AM
What is amusing here.. A simple interpretation of existing rules could not have been solved without .. consulting some Tour employees .. in Dubai.. :lol: Well .. at least now we know who really runs the Tour at this point.. And I see many players mentioned.. But not Nadal.. Also tells you a bit about how important the guy really is on the Tour.. :lol:

nobama
03-05-2007, 03:44 AM
The difference between what Blake did and what Marat did is that Blake was trying to get a rule changed to his advantage, while Marat was trying to get the rules enforced to prevent a new kid from getting screwed. Sure, it's understandable that Blake got mad, because the rule is pretty ridiculous. But, for the integrity of the game, he should have just taken his lumps.I guess this is where I'm still unclear. Do we know for certain Blake lobbied to have the rules changed/beneded in his favor? IF he did that, then yeah I think there will be hard feelings with the other guys and understandibly so.

amierin
03-05-2007, 03:48 AM
Roger, Rafa, Andre and Marat were summoned to Paris by Mr. Disney when this idea was first contemplated. I would think Mr Disney, and Marat, would try and get the Big Boys together to find out what they thought. I'm thinking that Roger is the one who can afford to speak out because of his position in the sport right now the same way Lindsay Davenport began to speak out the end of last year when she knew she was going to be leaving the tour. No one will do anything to Roger for speaking out.

Lee
03-05-2007, 03:51 AM
korolev did not say blake called de villiers.. he said-- as i was told later, blake got mad and approached the supervisor with protest against the result".... that is all he said about blake's actions but i think it's enough...

add here that korolev said he met blake shortly after the match, apologized to him for the unfortunate result but blake told him "it's not decided yet"...

it's clear, blake initiated it and lobbied it until federer got involved...




Thank God the law in USA is different from your country. Otherwise, I don't know how many people will be sent to jail with circumstantial evidences and he says.

my0118
03-05-2007, 03:52 AM
:o

comon, don't play naive! blake initiated this! no one would even think about such a crazy decision if not blake! :mad:

also, don't forget about lies ;) blake, your classy harvard or whatever you call him blake, did say he and del potro did not know that withdrawl will lead to korolev's advancing.. hewitt first accused him in liying.. korolev confirmed that-- he met del potro soon after the match and del potro said you'll go through.. then he saw blake and told him-- sorry about the situation, and blake told him -- it's not decided yet.. and after that blake said to the press he and del potro did not know the rules :p you know "he is a nice kid, if he known... bla-bla-bla"

oooh, when? I want to know details.:)

Socket
03-05-2007, 03:54 AM
I guess this is where I'm still unclear. Do we know for certain Blake lobbied to have the rules changed/beneded in his favor? IF he did that, then yeah I think there will be hard feelings with the other guys and understandibly so.

At a minimum, he complained to Darby after he got angry when Darby ruled that Korolev advanced. Korolev asserts that he "probably" phoned de Villers, and I find that to be very credible under the circumstances, which includes Blake's silence on this issue, what he said in his press conferences, and how the other guys reacted.

Charles Bricker makes the point that if there was a question about how the rules worked, the right person to contact would have been Gayle Bradshaw, the ATP's VP for rules and competition.

if there is a question about the rules, why would you go to the CEO of the tour? Why wouldn't someone contact Gayle Bradshaw, the vice president for rules and competition, or Darby? Or maybe they did and didn't like the answer they got.

The issue is settled and the right player advanced. But something in the way this was handled doesn't smell right and raises some critical questions about the integrity of the ATP.

Maybe the rules aren't fair, but the rules are clear. If you don't like them, change them.

I hadn't thought about that before, but Bricker is right. There's a chain of command here that got completely circumvented. . .

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 03:57 AM
It's not that easy. I was at the lose end of a very stupid tax rule. I tried everything I could to change it even though I knew it's not going to happen. But I would really berate myself if I did nothing or made some noise.

that's totally different! can you imagine yourself trying to change the tax tules so that the money you have to pay would be paid by your friend? or even a neighbour? and if you succeeded, just cause the head of tax body in your town owes you something, what do you think your neighbors would tell about you? ;)

fighting for your rights is normal! trying to change the stupid rules is great!

but here we have a situation when one player, older, higher ranked and member of the players' council, pushed the other, a rookie, away in order to get benefit-- money and points....

no surprise people did not like that :lol:
and what did he want, blake i mean? that everyone will applaud to him and tell-- oh, yes! for the sake of american tennis, las vegas crowd, american tennis channel and blake personally we agree that the rules should be changed in the middle of the tournament and we agree that korolev is nobody :haha:

Socket
03-05-2007, 04:00 AM
oooh, when? I want to know details.:)

Lleyton did not accuse Blake of lying.

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 04:00 AM
oooh, when? I want to know details.:)

right after the decision for blake to advance was announced... hewitt said-- it is not true that the players did not know the rule, we were sitting and discussing it.... read the gm thread on blake-del potro match

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 04:01 AM
Lleyton did not accuse Blake of lying.

whom he accused then when he said-- it's not true? :confused:

Socket
03-05-2007, 04:03 AM
whom he accused then when he said-- it's not true? :confused:

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking, but Lleyton was saying that the rule was that Korolev should advance, not Blake.

Socket
03-05-2007, 04:06 AM
right after the decision for blake to advance was announced... hewitt said-- it is not true that the players did not know the rule, we were sitting and discussing it.... read the gm thread on blake-del potro match

Oh, OK, now I understand what your question was. Sorry.

I believe that, before each tournament, the players sit down with the ATP supervisors and go over the rules, the scheduling, etc., etc. I have to think that the RR rules would be part of that meeting.

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 04:06 AM
Al,

Let's don't get it twisted by telling lies insisting James said Del Porto knew or didn't. See below.

And did I read where Korolev admits Del Porto approached him as soon as he left the court? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

"Del Porto was just as upset from the decision that was first rendered, saying he would have completed the match had he been fully aware of the implications of his retirement."

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=tennis-m/news/BCN4066189.htm

drf716
03-05-2007, 04:06 AM
in the end, the round robin format needs to dust a few bugs from its rules if it's going to continue.

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 04:11 AM
All,

"And all of sudden I met del Potro who said, "You are through". "How? What happenned", I asked. He said, "I have breathe problems".

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 04:14 AM
Al,

Let's don't get it twisted by telling lies insisting James said Del Porto knew or didn't. See below.

And did I read where Korolev admits Del Porto approached him as soon as he left the court? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

"Del Porto was just as upset from the decision that was first rendered, saying he would have completed the match had he been fully aware of the implications of his retirement."

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=tennis-m/news/BCN4066189.htm

what did you want him to tell at that moment? :shrug: as korolev, he also plans to play in atp for 15 more years :p ask him now!

what an irony-- blake, the so-called respected senior player, put two very promising young talents into such a situation! :eek: these boys know how to work hard and how to fight on court, they don't know and can not know and should not know how to play political games! :mad:

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 04:15 AM
All,

Now someone is telling some tall tales. Makes one wonder if a fix was indeed in. At what point did Del learn Koro was in? And I know Koro doesn't speak good English - but his - "And all of a sudden I met Del Porto - etc." How can someone come upon someone all of a sudden?

Thangs that make one go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Socket
03-05-2007, 04:18 AM
Actually, Korolev's English is excellent. I was very impressed with him during his interviews and when he was in the commentary booth during the second SF.

The two players probably met in the locker room.

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 04:20 AM
what did you want him to tell at that moment? :shrug: as korolev, he also plans to play in atp for 15 more years :p ask him now!

what an irony-- blake, the so-called respected senior player, put two very promising young talents into such a situation! :eek: these boys know how to work hard and how to fight on court, they don't know and can not know and should not know how to play political games! :mad:

All,

And you know what? You have your opinion and I have mine. And my suspicion radar just went into overdrive. It wasn't there at first - but it is now for real. And it's my business. We are all entitled to our opinion.

And what in the chop sticks are you ranting about when you speak of these boys? What???????!!!!!! What political games are you talkin' 'bout. Get a grip.

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 04:21 AM
All,

Now someone is telling some tall tales. Makes one wonder if a fix was indeed in. At what point did Del learn Koro was in? And I know Koro doesn't speak good English - but his - "And all of a sudden I met Del Porto - etc." How can someone come upon someone all of a sudden?

Thangs that make one go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

no even a slight hint on fix! :mad:

many people saw the match and saw del potro was not fine! and all korolev said was-- he was going to the organization committee to pick up papers, he met del potro on the way there, del potro said "you are through", korolev said "how come?", del potro answered "i had breathing problem", that's all! i think it's not a big deal of english! and no conspiracy what's so ever! why would korolev lie?

L.R
03-05-2007, 04:21 AM
And I know Koro doesn't speak good English

Zhenya actually started speaking english at age 8... his english is perfect !

my0118
03-05-2007, 04:24 AM
right after the decision for blake to advance was announced... hewitt said-- it is not true that the players did not know the rule, we were sitting and discussing it.... read the gm thread on blake-del potro match

Oooh, I got it. I read what he said too and I figured it out like it was not an accusation against blake, just he thought the fact players didn't realize the rules of the tournament which they participated in didn't any make sense.

anyway, Blake called Mr. Disney, but he made someone call Mr. Disney to change the rules for himself which is really predictable. Apparently Blake didn't suck up Disney's ass, Disney did Blake's.

and even if Del potro had known all about the rules, when he got sick then he couldn't play, that's all. He couldn't have felt for Blake.

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 04:24 AM
Zhenya actually started speaking english at age 8... his english is perfect !

All,

Point well taken. My bad.

smucav
03-05-2007, 04:24 AM
I believe that, before each tournament, the players sit down with the ATP supervisors and go over the rules, the scheduling, etc., etc. I have to think that the RR rules would be part of that meeting.There's a mandatory player meeting every year in Melbourne the weekend before the Australian Open begins. All players entered in the main draw must attend or face a fine. (Players who aren't ranked high enough to get in (or have withdrawn due to injury) don't have to fly to Melbourne for the meeting but must sign a statement indicating they have read the meeting minutes.) This is when any substantial changes to the ATP rulebook (round robins, doping, etc.) are explained to the players. Any rule changes that occur during the year are printed in the weekly player newsletter that's available to players online. (Players can get hard copies from the ATP tour manager or another staff member each week at the tournaments.)

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 04:26 AM
no even a slight hint on fix! :mad:

many people saw the match and saw del potro was not fine! and all korolev said was-- he was going to the organization committee to pick up papers, he met del potro on the way there, del potro said "you are through", korolev said "how come?", del potro answered "i had breathing problem", that's all! i think it's not a big deal of english! and no conspiracy what's so ever! why would korolev lie?

All,

I saw the match from 4-1 - in the first. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd now what?

Socket
03-05-2007, 04:29 AM
There's a mandatory player meeting every year in Melbourne the weekend before the Australian Open begins. All players entered in the main draw must attend or face a fine. (Players who aren't ranked high enough to get in (or have withdrawn due to injury) don't have to fly to Melbourne for the meeting but must sign a statement indicating they have read the meeting minutes.) This is when any substantial changes to the ATP rulebook (round robins, doping, etc.) are explained to the players. Any rule changes that occur during the year are printed in the weekly player newsletter that's available to players online. (Players can get hard copies from the ATP tour manager or another staff member each week at the tournaments.)

Thanks for straightening this out.

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 04:32 AM
All,

And you know what? You have your opinion and I have mine. And mine suspicion radar just went into overdrive. It wasn't there at first - but it is now for real. And it's my business. We are all entitled to our opinion.

And what in the chop sticks are you ranting about when you speak of these boys? What???????!!!!!! What political games are you talkin' 'bout. Get a grip.

i would be extremely surprised if del potro wanted korolev to advance :haha:

but... even if they did? the point is-- de villiers invented idiotic RR and continues to spread it no matter what, blake supported RR as much as he could, they both got into shit because RR is shit (oh, i wish these two boys did that intentionally :devil: but they did not :sad: they are normal tennis kids who try to surivive in atp and think of nothing else... mmmh.. who of the players could do such a thing? :confused: they should!), and when rr worked against dear blake, they both got sincerely mad "we did not plan it! we did not want it! this system was invented for the better ranked players, not the other way around!" :haha: :haha: :haha: what a laugh!

bottom line-- the best in this situation is that del potro could withdraw intentionally to make korolev through (again, i think he did not!) and no one would condemn him for that since idiotic rules permit, BUT mr. disney and blake could not change the rules, RR is their baby, take it or leave it (i mean throw it away!) :yeah:

smucav
03-05-2007, 04:36 AM
Thanks for straightening this out.And I should have added that the new ATP rulebook is available online in early December. The players are notified that it's available, but I doubt many of them read this lengthy document then (or maybe ever). This year because of the overhaul of the points structure and the round robins, an ATP staff member sent e-mails to the players summarizing the new rules before the rulebook was printed so they would have the information prior to the first 2007 tournament entry deadlines.

The players can also ask the on-site supervisor about rules any time during a tournament or e-mail Gayle Bradshaw or other ATP staff members.

I can believe that most players are not experts on every single thing in the rulebook, but most of them who have played at least a full year know the rules about entries, withdrawals, ranking points, equipment, match scheduling, etc. because those are things they (and/or their agents) have to deal with every week.

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 04:39 AM
All,

I'm astute enough to know that we all have opinions. I don't want to argue with fools. None of us know anything for sure. But I will say this. Del was fine until James blitzed his rump 6-1. He felt it, and he wasn't even out there long enough to develop breathing problems. The trainer at first was tending to his wrist. He knew he wouldn't be able to stop James' firepower. The commnetators were saying that James was playing brilliantly. He had 4 UEs in the first set. His serve was all the way on. He was feeling it. Del wasn't - and we know that.

Again - I dislike accusing anyone of anything because I'm not in there heads - only God can judge anyone. From a couple of things I just noticed tonight - they did make me go - hmmmmmmmmmmmm! When did Del know James was out and Koro was in?

Terrible blow for all concerned - RR and tennis in general.

Have a good one.

L.R
03-05-2007, 04:40 AM
And I should have added that the new ATP rulebook is available online in early December. The players are notified that it's available, but I doubt many of them read this lengthy document then (or maybe ever).

I did ... :lol:
Well not every single line of it, but a big part ...
this is simply horrible to read ... but really instructive !

And in all that mess in Vegas the first thing I thought about was : "Why do I remember having read something about NO ONE being allowed to change a rule after the first ball of the tournament has been played ?" ...
probably cuz I did read it !

smucav
03-05-2007, 04:47 AM
I did ... :lol:
Well not every single line of it, but a big part ...
this is simply horrible to read ... but really instructive !I don't think it's necessary for players to read the whole thing cover to cover every year. Only the new rules are important: this year happened to have some major changes (points, draw sizes, round robins, etc.). In other years, there are only a few things here and there.

L.R
03-05-2007, 04:49 AM
I don't think it's necessary for players to read the whole thing cover to cover every year. Only the new rules are important: this year happened to have some major changes (points, draw sizes, round robins, etc.). In other years, there are only a few things here and there.

True, but that was the first time I managed to motivate myself enough to read it ! :lol:

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 04:54 AM
Vamos James, good politics there brother.

People are going to believe they want to believe, but for whatever reasons Safin, Hewitt, Johansson and others are to be congratulated for standing up for Korolev and making Mr.Disney look like the fool that he is. The right result was achieved eventually and it should never have got this far, especially when the Vice President of the Players Council doesn't know the rules and the other players did.

Tennis Fool
03-05-2007, 04:58 AM
If I am Blake and believed I should have advanced but ended up not, I would be mad and tried to do something about it. He felt injustice. (please remember he's entitled to be mad too) Just like Marat believed it's injustice that Korolev was denied to advance and he did something about it.

But if you want to persecute Blake and praise Marat, I don't have anymore to say. :shrug:

edit: Just want to clarify I don't agree with what Blake said after Mr. Disney had him advance and then retrack. But I understand his action in the beginning.

I think you have to identify with injustice to understand Blake's anger. Even if he did call up Mr. Disney personally, Mr. Disney is the one who changed the rules.

This reminds me of the Olympics where the two Canadian skaters won 2nd place, made a fuss, and the Olympics committee awarded them a dual gold. Who wouldn't complain if they felt cheated? (Although I personally didn't believe they were Gold calibar :p )

L.R
03-05-2007, 05:05 AM
This reminds me of the Olympics where the two Canadian skaters won 2nd place, made a fuss, and the Olympics committee awarded them a dual gold. Who wouldn't if they felt cheated? (Although I personally didn't believe they were Gold calibar :p )

this is really different...
firstly because Figure skating is an artistic sport, meaning results are based on a subjective judgement !
and secondly because it has been proved they were the victims of an agreement between the Russian and the French Federations ...

no comparison possible here !

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 05:13 AM
I did ... :lol:
Well not every single line of it, but a big part ...
this is simply horrible to read ... but really instructive !

And in all that mess in Vegas the first thing I thought about was : "Why do I remember having read something about NO ONE being allowed to change a rule after the first ball of the tournament has been played ?" ...
probably cuz I did read it !


:yeah:

Rosa Luxembourg
03-05-2007, 05:19 AM
One other thing Blake lied about: when everything was re-done (Korolev played the quarterfinal), Blake in his press conference said that he talked to Korolev and they are ok. According to Korolev, "I haven't met Blake since Thursday when we both still thought he came through. I told him I couldn't be satisfied obviously but wished him luck for the rest of tournament."

2moretogo
03-05-2007, 05:23 AM
Lied? Korolev had said that everything was ok between him and Blake when they talked on Thursday. He, as all the "players" have, have blamed the ATP.

lau
03-05-2007, 05:24 AM
Al,

Let's don't get it twisted by telling lies insisting James said Del Porto knew or didn't. See below.

And did I read where Korolev admits Del Porto approached him as soon as he left the court? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

"Del Porto was just as upset from the decision that was first rendered, saying he would have completed the match had he been fully aware of the implications of his retirement."

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/default.asp?c=sportsnetwork&page=tennis-m/news/BCN4066189.htm

First, that´s a quote of Mr. Disney if I´m not wrong. This is Del Potro´s quote: “I wanted to finish the match, but also I was not aware of the technicality of the rule. I did not feel comfortable continuing.”
Mr. Disney added the part of "he would have completed the match had he been fully aware of the implications of his retirement" :rolleyes:

Second, I didn´t read anywhere that Del Potro approached Korolev as soon as he left the court :confused:

And I think Korolev´s English is pretty good. Del Potro speaks English, but it´s not so good. He probably said what I posted as his quote in Spanish and it was translated.



Again - I dislike accusing anyone of anything because I'm not in there heads - only God can judge anyone. From a couple of things I just noticed tonight - they did make me go - hmmmmmmmmmmmm! When did Del know James was out and Koro was in?

I´m guessing here, just as you seem to do, but probably when he was told about it in the locker room?

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 05:24 AM
All,

I'm astute enough to know that we all have opinions. I don't want to argue with fools. None of us know anything for sure. But I will say this. Del was fine until James blitzed his rump 6-1. He felt it, and he wasn't even out there long enough to develop breathing problems. The trainer at first was tending to his wrist. He knew he wouldn't be able to stop James' firepower. The commnetators were saying that James was playing brilliantly. He had 4 UEs in the first set. His serve was all the way on. He was feeling it. Del wasn't - and we know that.


you seriously are telling this shit? :eek: why does it matter how blake played? :mad: why you think exemptions should be made for you just because you are you? :mad: then ignore the world and sit in your us with your own us atp! :mad:

this is really different...
firstly because Figure skating is an artistic sport, meaning results are based on a subjective judgement !
and secondly because it has been proved they were the victims of an agreement between the Russian and the French Federations ...

no comparison possible here !

sorry, but i disagree... nothing was proved.... situation is similar, yes.... that is why the chinese couple boycotted the second medal presenation :yeah: the russians should have too :o but it was the year when russians tried hard to please everyone, americans first of all, big mistake, they changed since then ;)

i guess figure skaters had no their safin :p seriously, if players did not get actively involved, the decision would have stand and blake would have played his quater... :eek: just as it happened in figure skating 5 years ago... so, positive outcome, a personal voice can change the world ;) speak out, people! :rocker2:

my0118
03-05-2007, 05:28 AM
One other thing Blake lied about: when everything was re-done (Korolev played the quarterfinal), Blake in his press conference said that he talked to Korolev and they are ok. According to Korolev, "I haven't met Blake since Thursday when we both still thought he came through. I told him I couldn't be satisfied obviously but wished him luck for the rest of tournament."

maybe he doesn't count what he assumed :haha: he already said it was commonsense that he got through, so why not blake assumed korolev was okay with the commonsense thing? I can understand him :lol:

Rosa Luxembourg
03-05-2007, 05:28 AM
Lied? Korolev had said that everything was ok between him and Blake when they talked on Thursday. He, as all the "players" have, have blamed the ATP.

But they didn't talk since pre-whole-mess conversation when both of them thought they advanced.

The fact is that Blake didn't have balls to talk to Korolev in person after what happened. Yes, everything is ok between them, but it's because Korolev is a classy guy. Everything, Blake isn't.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 05:37 AM
First, that´s a quote of Mr. Disney if I´m not wrong. This is Del Potro´s quote: “I wanted to finish the match, but also I was not aware of the technicality of the rule. I did not feel comfortable continuing.”
Mr. Disney added the part of "he would have completed the match had he been fully aware of the implications of his retirement" :rolleyes:

Second, I didn´t read anywhere that Del Potro approached Korolev as soon as he left the court :confused:

And I think Korolev´s English is pretty good. Del Potro speaks English, but it´s not so good. He probably said what I posted as his quote in Spanish and it was translated.

del Potro did the right thing and he wasn't fit enough to continue, so he retired. It seems Mr.Disney is trying to use a lot of spin tactics here.

Agreed about Korolev and del Potro's English levels. It seems there are a few missing pieces here.

2moretogo
03-05-2007, 05:45 AM
But they didn't talk since pre-whole-mess conversation when both of them thought they advanced.

The fact is that Blake didn't have balls to talk to Korolev in person after what happened. Yes, everything is ok between them, but it's because Korolev is a classy guy. Everything, Blake isn't.


I watched TTC, and Korolev in his post match interviews, said after the Querrey match that him and Blake had talked and everything was ok. And that he felt sorry for Blake. When the fuck would Blake call Korolev again? Before a match he had short time to advance for? And after he felt he got screwed?

You said Blake lied about talking to Korolev, but he didn't. Korolev, as well as Safin and Hewitt have taken great care not to insinuate Blake in any of this, and have rested the blame purely where is belongs with the ATP.

We will agree to disagree. Blake, said, and I was watching his press conference that he wished Korolev the best of luck and thought he would win the tournament. (He said this during Korolev v. Querrey match)



I personally think that Blake and Korolev showed a tremendous amount of class given the entire situation.

Via
03-05-2007, 05:52 AM
detective work continues here :lol:

i'm just amused to find out that de villiers changed his mind because of a threat of a players revolution, not because his mind had improved in the morning.

looks like he really is sucking up to top players in order to protect his job. at least we can't say he's autocratic :lol:

Merton
03-05-2007, 06:02 AM
It doesn't look like much new information added here, Mr. Disney is a clown that would not be able to keep his job after what happened, not aware of the rules and the limits to his authority to intervene, eager to intervene on his impulse without a full grasp of the situation, and then trying to keep a positive spin on events, as if "the storm on a teapot" was created from an act of God.

James is either very naive due to his original advocacy of the rule violation or lacks integrity as a person.

hablovah19
03-05-2007, 06:03 AM
It's in Russian originally but here are some quotes from Korolev interview to "Sport-Express":

"The rules were known before tournament' start. Yes, they are complicated and far from optimal, I believe. I knew if del Potro retired I would advance to the quarters... I was following the match via internet and when Blake had led 6-1 1-0 I was off to the club to receive prize money and papers for next tournament. And all of sudden I met del Potro who said, "You are through". "How? What happenned", I asked. He said, "I have breathe problems".

"Then I came up to James and said, "Sorry but that's it". He replied, "They are still discussing". "Discussing what?" "Who's gonna advance." "But according to the rules it's me, isn't it? If I am wrong then I accept it cos it's really not fair towards you".

"Later I've been told Blake got angry after the match and went to supervisor to appeal the rules. Of course he was leading and should win eventually but rules are the rules. Also I've been told ATP chairman changed them by one phone call and decided James would play.

"I was unhappy with that decision, of course. And I was supported by Safin, Hewitt and Johansson. I wanna thank Marat especially. He came to me and said, "Come with me. We need to solve all this". He very softly told them everything he thought of this situation. He asked them how could they do that and who gave them a right to change the rules mid-tournament?
"I also got in touch with my agents and they helped me too. One of them woke me up at 5 a.m. and said, "You will play". At 6 a.m. Mark Derby called me and said de Villiers changed his mind in my favor. The next one who called me was de Villiers himself. He apologized and said he did what he thought would be the best thing.

"They had meeting in Dubai with Federer and other guys taking part in it. All of them said it was me who should play by the rules. They contacted de Villiers and came to conclusion nobody was allowed to change the rules in the middle of tournament.

"I haven't met Blake since Thursday when we both still thought he came through. I told him I couldn't be satisfied obviously but wished him luck for the rest of tournament.

"I don't want to discuss whether Blake was right or not. The fact that James talked to the officials and probably phoned to ATP was kind of natural decision. He stated the rules had a hole. What else could he do? Anyway, I hope we got each other right."

http://www.sport-express.ru/art.shtml?135413

Blake! :rolleyes::ignore:

Safin is such an :angel:;)

Federer and whoever else helped. :clap2:

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 06:06 AM
It doesn't look like much new information added here, Mr. Disney is a clown that would not be able to keep his job after what happened, not aware of the rules and the limits to his authority to intervene, eager to intervene on his impulse without a full grasp of the situation, and then trying to keep a positive spin on events, as if "the storm on a teapot" was created from an act of God.

James is either very naive due to his original advocacy of the rule violation or lacks integrity as a person.

Well said and I wonder how long "Fearless Leader" will be in charge of the ATP?

He is showing that incompetence is a skill and as for Blake the less said the better.

silverwhite
03-05-2007, 06:07 AM
Blake did what most players would have done.

The person who should be applauded is de Villiers. :clap2:

Merton
03-05-2007, 06:12 AM
Well said and I wonder how long "Fearless Leader" will be in charge of the ATP?

He is showing that incompetence is a skill and as for Blake the less said the better.

I guess it depends on the power balance at the ATP. It looks like a partnership, where players like Federer, Hewitt, Safin are like senior partners so it may be important that Mr. Disney must not look credible for these players. The other side of the coin is the influence of the powerful technical directors and there things are not clear.

Vass
03-05-2007, 06:13 AM
James was pissed, so would most other players.
I can just imagine my favourite player, Marat Safin, cruising to the next round, and then getting kicked out because his opponent retired. He would have made much more of a fuss than Blake...
Korolev himself said that Blake pointed out a fault in the system. It was incredibly unfair to him.

Via
03-05-2007, 06:14 AM
It doesn't look like much new information added here, Mr. Disney is a clown that would not be able to keep his job after what happened, not aware of the rules and the limits to his authority to intervene, eager to intervene on his impulse without a full grasp of the situation, and then trying to keep a positive spin on events, as if "the storm on a teapot" was created from an act of God.

James is either very naive due to his original advocacy of the rule violation or lacks integrity as a person.

that's an accepted talent of most corporate leaders :p

don't forget he's also the chairman of the board too, and he won't fire himself. guess there needs to be a no-confidence vote from the rest of the board before that can happen.

luckily we now know that there's an unofficial supreme leader above him, with the first name of roger....

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 06:15 AM
I guess it depends on the power balance at the ATP. It looks like a partnership, where players like Federer, Hewitt, Safin are like senior partners so it may be important that Mr. Disney must not look credible for these players. The other side of the coin is the influence of the powerful technical directors and there things are not clear.

Well the players definitely need a voice since it's their union and Mr.Disney looking like a lame duck could work for sure, then again there is the mafia man Tiriac and his cronies having a word in Mr. Disney's ear as well, though not in this case.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 06:16 AM
James was pissed, so would most other players.
I can just imagine my favourite player, Marat Safin, cruising to the next round, and then getting kicked out because his opponent retired. He would have made much more of a fuss than Blake...
Korolev himself said that Blake pointed out a fault in the system. It was incredibly unfair to him.

One difference. Safin knew what the rules were and wouldn't want to them to be changed mid event to suit his needs.

Merton
03-05-2007, 06:18 AM
Blake did what most players would have done.

He shouldn't be blamed at all if the issue was just that he accepted a spot on the quarterfinals. Indeed there are not many players that would deny something good for their interests, given the opportunity. However, at best he made a fool of himself by playing Mr. Disney's attorney at the original press conference and not even noticing that he should be aware of the rules if only because of his position at the players' council.

The person who should be applauded is de Villiers. :clap2:
:D :clap2:

silverwhite
03-05-2007, 06:22 AM
He shouldn't be blamed at all if the issue was just that he accepted a spot on the quarterfinals. Indeed there are not many players that would deny something good for their interests, given the opportunity. However, at best he made a fool of himself by playing Mr. Disney's attorney at the original press conference and not even noticing that he should be aware of the rules if only because of his position at the players' council.


On the other hand, I think he has a point when he says that Del Potro could have decided who would go through. RR :worship:

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 06:28 AM
On the other hand, I think he has a point when he says that Del Potro could have decided who would go through. RR :worship:

You do know del Potro was ill didn't you? He should have retired before the match, just to piss Blake off.:)

Merton
03-05-2007, 06:28 AM
On the other hand, I think he has a point when he says that Del Potro could have decided who would go through. RR :worship:

That is inevitable in 3 player groups and changing the retirement rule would not help. On the other hand, if we get 4 players groups there will inevitably be dead matches on the last day of the RR stage. I saw some proposal about having 4 groups of 4 players each but this would just lead to small tournaments with a high ranking required to entry. RR:worship: :worship: :worship:

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 06:31 AM
4 x 4 groups in RR absolutely wouldn't work, it would be easier to follow for sure, but there were still be enough dead matches, where they'd be playing for virtually nothing.

R.Federer
03-05-2007, 06:33 AM
Thanks for that AnnaK

B******s. How repugnant that they try to screw over a young guy to sell a few more tickets for Vegas. Ugh, despicable.

Why didn't Blake step in to say that the rules were being bent and he didn't deserve to go through? This is coming across badly for James.

R.Federer
03-05-2007, 06:44 AM
And I just remembered Blake sits on the council to represent other players. It is looking worse now.

It would help to have a statement about this from Blake round about now.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 06:46 AM
And I just remembered Blake sits on the council to represent other players. It is looking worse now.

It would help to have a statement about this from Blake round about now.

The fact that Blake is Vice President of the Players Council is quite well known as is his putting his own interests first instead of to the group which he is meant to represent.

silverwhite
03-05-2007, 07:14 AM
You do know del Potro was ill didn't you? He should have retired before the match, just to piss Blake off.:)

Yes. I just meant that in general, someone in such a position has the power to decide. :shrug:

my0118
03-05-2007, 07:35 AM
I must adimt I've been enjoyed reading all Blake Disney blabla thing..
and sometimes I was one of them who discussed about.
But we have to stop this.
don't you guys, for those who're bashing Blake including me :angel:, actually think we are wasting our precious time for just one phony Blake?
it's soooo not good for our life and health.
now we all know blake is a s**t and just hope that he'd be out of top 10 as soon as possible never to be happened like this coz he was the favourite.

drf716
03-05-2007, 07:52 AM
if round robin means controversy along the way, then count me in...if only to have something to talk about besides roger federer is the greatest!

ServeAlready81
03-05-2007, 08:52 AM
I must adimt I've been enjoyed reading all Blake Disney blabla thing..
and sometimes I was one of them who discussed about.
But we have to stop this.
don't you guys, for those who're bashing Blake including me :angel:, actually think we are wasting our precious time for just one phony Blake?
it's soooo not good for our life and health.
now we all know blake is a s**t and just hope that he'd be out of top 10 as soon as possible never to be happened like this coz he was the favourite.

You're just as classless as you're acusing Blake of being, wishing that he'd fall out of the top 10 as soon as possible. How childish and bitter of you.

my0118
03-05-2007, 09:05 AM
You're just as classless as you're acusing Blake of being, wishing that he'd fall out of the top 10 as soon as possible. How childish and bitter of you.

I was exactly waiting like this respond!!! :worship:
You're just fished by me :haha:

ServeAlready81
03-05-2007, 09:12 AM
I was exactly waiting like this respond!!! :worship:
You're just fished by me :haha:

So you're admitting to purposely posting trite that you did not mean in order to stir up more trouble?

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 10:19 AM
Yes. I just meant that in general, someone in such a position has the power to decide. :shrug:

All power to RR.

scarecrows
03-05-2007, 10:22 AM
those who have thet gasquetaires sign in their sig shouldnt be taken seriously

Deivid23
03-05-2007, 10:36 AM
Blake did what most players would have done.



Sure! All players would have tried to cheat on Korolev, except Gasquet!

vincayou
03-05-2007, 10:46 AM
RR has a hole (well... many) and this situation proves it's an absolute shite system. Blake obviously could be pissed off even if he should just have let it go.
Most players would have at least complain about it. Trying and change the rule in the middle was obviously not very classy : if you don't like the system, just don't play the tournament.

On a side note, I'm amused at the number of posters outraged by Blake's comportment when even Korolev say he understands him.

my0118
03-05-2007, 10:48 AM
So you're admitting to purposely posting trite that you did not mean in order to stir up more trouble?

Assumed that I'm classless, I won't be anymore because my semester just get started and I will take a bunch of classes which hopefully make me classy :angel: Somehow, one of the classes I take is about astrophysics, I will dig it up to the end and eventually find out where's Federer's home planet in Andromeda, I'm a strong believer that Federer's home will be somewhere in Andromeda. Isn't this trite thing also funny at all? Okay let it be my thing.

Anyway the post I wrote that was a half joke thing and a half serious thing. I didn't like him before this happened so that's why I posted a lot of opinions about Blake's. I'm just not liking Blake, You're just defending all Blake' bashing posts. THAT'S ALL. (probably this will be my things as well ;)). We're on the forums, we can express our opinions, sometimes we dissent each other, sometimes we agree. So I don't have to get troubled or anything. what I posted is just my thought. THAT'S ALL. You wanna agrue with me? Okay keep posting like with sentences like I'm classless, childish, bitter or anything. I posted my actual feelings of Blake's conduct with sort of funny way, but you say me classless or get me some trouble if I post like that, I have willingness to defend myself by my thing way ;). Wait a minute, don't you actually think all of us in the forums have to be all classy, do you?

For the record, what Blake'd done was baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

those who have thet gasquetaires sign in their sig shouldnt be taken seriously

:haha: yeah, at least for me!!

Deivid23
03-05-2007, 10:51 AM
On a side note, I'm amused at the number of posters outraged by Blake's comportment when even Korolev say he understands him.

I´m also amused at your thought that Korolev is not just being diplomatic here

vincayou
03-05-2007, 10:51 AM
Sure! All players would have tried to cheat on Korolev, except Gasquet!

Gasquet has stated that he didn't want to play RR tournaments anymore.

Saumon
03-05-2007, 10:53 AM
On a side note, I'm amused at the number of posters outraged by Blake's comportment when even Korolev say he understands him.

Korolev also said he felt guilty. If someone should feel guilty it's certainly not him. ;)

vincayou
03-05-2007, 10:53 AM
I´m also amused at your thought that Korolev is not just being diplomatic here

diplomatic or hypocrite. I think he's sincere.

cremolafoam
03-05-2007, 11:02 AM
You do know del Potro was ill didn't you? He should have retired before the match, just to piss Blake off.:)

Exactly! Even if Del Potro had stayed on the court and lost 6-1 6-1 (or they change the rules in future to award this scoreline if he had retired at the same point), I don't see what is fair about Blake getting through by beating an injured player tanking a match when Korolev beat Blake fair and square 6-2 6-4! The system with only 3 players a group can't work no matter how they set up the rules. If Blake thinks he was cheated he's not seeing the overall picture of how the group went.

Deivid23
03-05-2007, 11:05 AM
diplomatic or hypocrite. I think he's sincere.

Hypocresy goes together with diplomacy in many ocassions, nothing new. Maybe he also thinks Blake is a gentleman wannabe ;)

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 11:05 AM
Exactly! Even if Del Potro had stayed on the court and lost 6-1 6-1 (or they change the rules in future to award this scoreline if he had retired at the same point), I don't see what is fair about Blake getting through by beating an injured player tanking a match when Korolev beat Blake fair and square 6-2 6-4! The system with only 3 players a group can't work no matter how they set up the rules. If Blake thinks he was cheated he's not seeing the overall picture of how the group went.

RR is such a joke and things like this highlight it even more and as for Blake, he is just looking out for himself. A good example for one of the main members of the Players Council.

Lapentti withdrew in his match against JCF in Buenos Aires and del Potro could have done the same thing, but didn't.

johnnylad
03-05-2007, 11:09 AM
It's in Russian originally but here are some quotes from Korolev interview to "Sport-Express":


"I was unhappy with that decision, of course. And I was supported by Safin, Hewitt and Johansson. I wanna thank Marat especially. He came to me and said, "Come with me. We need to solve all this". He very softly told them everything he thought of this situation. He asked them how could they do
that and who gave them a right to change the rules mid-tournament


The only bit I don't believe is that Safin told them VERY SOFTLY! :haha:

almouchie
03-05-2007, 11:12 AM
very confusing decision

it will surely not bode well for the rest of the tournies utilizing RR

Via
03-05-2007, 11:43 AM
The only bit I don't believe is that Safin told them VERY SOFTLY! :haha:

marat is multi-dimensional :)

Via
03-05-2007, 11:46 AM
i'm holding out for another interview... tell-all... tomorrow. i'm hooked on this saga! please is there a "woman's day" equivalent among tennis magazines? :D

johnnylad
03-05-2007, 11:48 AM
It is a little "suspicious" that Blake has kept silent

User id 7816
03-05-2007, 12:08 PM
The next one who called me was de Villiers himself. He apologized and said he did what he thought would be the best thing.

Oh I get it, 'the best thing' was to let Blake through at the expense of Korolev? Sure, if it suited you:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

silverwhite
03-05-2007, 12:23 PM
Sure! All players would have tried to cheat on Korolev, except Gasquet!

Wow, what a strong argument!!!!

You're deluded if you think that none of the other players would have complained about the loophole if they were in Blake's situation. Maybe they wouldn't have done it as aggressively as Blake did, but many would have appealed nonetheless. :)

Saumon
03-05-2007, 12:24 PM
I really hope the ATP won't be cowards again and will publish the press conference transcripts from IW. I doubt it tho.

Saumon
03-05-2007, 12:27 PM
You're deluded if you think that none of the other players would have complained about the loophole if they were in Blake's situation. Maybe they wouldn't have done it as aggressively as Blake did, but many would have appealed nonetheless. :)

they would have complained. that's for sure. don't expect a guy like Safin to stay silent if he had been in Blake's situation of not qualifying because a guy had retired (which thank God was not the case, he somehow managed to win both of his matches). But would he have accepted that officials bend the rules for him??

{Annie}
03-05-2007, 12:28 PM
I translated the whole interview. It helps to get a complete picture from Zhenya's point of view. Enjoy :)

Translated from Russian

March 5, Sport Express Newspaper Interview (by Alexey Tolkachev from LA)

Evgeniy Korolev: “And then Safin said, “Let’s go and sort this out!”

(I am going to skip the introductory part where the article author talks about the situation itself and recaps the order of events and then says how tough it was to get through to Zhenya. But he finally managed to catch Korolev in his hotel room on the phone and get this interview)

Rules Confusion

- Evgeniy I would like to congratulate you on your first career semifinal even though the press and the fans are more interested in that mess, if not scandal, that accompanied your way to the quarterfinals.

Thank you. I am glad that justice was done.

- Were you aware of the rules of Round Robin, which if you trust ATP press releases were not known to neither the players nor the organizers of the Las Vegas tournament?

Of course I was aware of the rules, how else can it be? Obviously these rules are not understood by some players and are not correct in my opinion. I knew that if Del Potro retired from the match I would reach the quarterfinals. If James had a big win over him – then James would, and finally if Del Potro would have defeated Blake or had taken at least 6 games, he would be the one to proceed.

- Therefore Argentinean’s retirement couldn’t not make you happy?

I asked Del Potro, “Why did you retire?” It seemed really strange to me. I was following the match on the internet and when the score was 6/1 1/0 I went to the club to get my prize money, get the papers for the next tournament, etc. Then all of a sudden I meet Del Potro and he goes, “You are through!” I was like “What happened?” – “I had breathing problems”, he replied.

- So getting your tournament cheque had to be postponed?

Of course. I had walked up to James and said “Look, I am sorry it went that way”. It’s not that I felt guilty or anything but the situation was unpleasant. Kinda sorry I got through instead of you. And he goes “They are still deciding”. I am like “Deciding what?” – “Who will go through to the quarters” – “But according to the rules it’s me. What’s there to decide?” I said.

- Were you surprised Blake was still hopeful?

As I was told afterwards Blake got mad after the match and approached the supervisor of the tournament to protest the result. It’s obvious he was leading in the match and would have won it, but rules are rules. I was also told that the ATP President had changed them by a matter of one phone call and said that it would be James who would play further and not me.

- What did you feel at that point?

It was very unpleasant. I was obviously against such a decision because if we had all agreed to try out round robin then we have to stick to the rules that were laid out for us. Other guys expressed their support too: Marat Safin, Thomas Johansson, Lleyton Hewitt.

-Safin expressed his opinion on this incident as always in a rather not politically correct manner…

Yes, his comments were harsh. He said “The guy has only been on the ATP tour for a year and you’re already pressuring him like that. This is not the way guys!” Thank you to Marat for intervention, because they probably thought I was young and noone would back me up. Marat didn’t even think twice, told me “Come with me”, I was like “Marat, it’s OK, really” – “No no, it’s not OK, we are going to sort this out”.

- Sounds like a senior in high school trying to defend a youngster from bullies…

Yes, Marat very politely expressed his point of view on this. He asked them straight in their faces how could they let something like this happen and who has the right to pull this off – change rules in the middle of the tournament. It’s the same thing as coming out to the match, playing it, losing 6.7 in the third set and then approaching the supervisor and saying “Could I please play two more games. I will beat him now”.

- So turns out it’s Safin who re-established justice?

Well I also called my agents; I think they did their share too. One of them woke me up at 5 am saying “Get ready, you’re gonna play”. Then at 6 am the tournament supervisor Marc Darby phoned and said that the ATP President Etienne De Villiers had changed his decision in my favor now.


Sorry for Blake

- Did anyone apologise?

Yes the next to call was from Etienne himself and said that he apologises, that he wanted to do what was best. From a personal point of view, I understand him because this round robin system is really far from being well thought through.

- I suppose he had to apologise to Blake even longer…

I feel sorry for James. I told him about it right away – back when he had just said that ATP were discussing who would reach the quarters. I said “James if it is written in the rules that they can decide who goes through and who doesn’t – I will agree to this decision because it is not fair to you otherwise.” This is exactly what I told him, you can ask him if you want to. But sympathy is sympathy and rules are rules. And that is exactly why in Dubai am emergency players meeting was held, Roger Federer and other guys from the players union took part in it. They were all devastated and declared that in accordance with the rules I should play.

- Players in Dubai actually discussed your situation?

Yes and then called Etienne and came to an agreement that rules cannot be changed in the course of the tournament. To be honest this could have easily been a court case, I had every right to go to court and sue ATP because I was simply eliminated from the tournament.

- Without any accusations Safin had declared that this scandal would have never taken place if the situation were the total opposite, i.e. if you were the one leaving the tournament in accordance with the rules instead of the top seed. Do you agree?

To be honest yes. But you cannot forget that tennis is not only a sport, it’s also business. And it’s obvious that many fans would not attend the rest of the matches after Blake left the tournament. So I would have to agree with Marat. I think if it was a player from the end of top 100 no one would have woken up the ATP President at 1 am for him.

- Have you seen Blake after this?

Last time we spoke was Thursday night when we all still thought he was the one to go through. I told James I was slightly upset but sincerely wished him luck for the rest of the tournament. All in all, we parted on OK terms, I didn’t see him on Friday but heard that he held a press-conference and in his turn wished me luck, said that he had only just fully understood the rules and how it all works.

- Does it feel nice to have such support from your colleagues?

Yes and what’s more nice is that Etienne phoned and apologized. All in all, everything is alright now, it was alright even on Thursday. I had decided to grind my teeth and not talk to the press that day and didn’t attend the press conference.

- So what happens to round robin now?

Many players were against it from the very beginning. But it was ATP’s idea and we all agreed to try it out. However after everything that’s happened I think there won’t be much more of round robin and there will be normal tournaments like before. Nobody really wins from this new format. As I was told this had happened for the second week in a row, there was a similar situation in Buenos Aires last week and the players simply started to withdraw from tournaments because no one is liking this much. And I am not even mentioning the tournaments that at first agreed to round robin and are now returning to a conventional format.

- So the experiment failed?

I think after Miami where we will have a meeting about this, it will be over. Sooner or later this was bound to happen, so it happened to me. If all the players are equal as we are being told – then let’s work this way in order to avoid what Marat had mentioned: if Blake is 5th in the world, top seed of the tournament and plays at home, then it’s possible to come and start dictating your own rules.

- If you consider what De Villiers had said, round robin format is favored by the fans. Wouldn’t you want to consider their needs too?

I don’t think we’d be taking anything away from the fans. A tennis tournament is 32 players, or 64. You win – you keep going, you lose – pack your bags. As for this format – total confusion.


Grab a racket and go

- I admire your self-control and the fact that you can so calmly talk about everything…

I went to bed at 3 am because of all of these phone calls. And in two hours I was woken up again. I got out on court without any breakfast, any rest but I managed to play well anyway.

- Did you get to train and warm-up?

No, just jogged a little, grabbed a racket and off I went. I played OK, didn’t make that many mistakes but obviously didn’t show my best tennis. I was pretty tired by the second set, got a headache due to lack of sleep. I am glad I earned a lot of points and hope to move up in the ratings next week. I just feel really sorry for Blake. I don’t want to judge whether he was right or wrong. The fact that James went to sort things out with the tournament supervisors and probably ATP officials it is correct in general. Blake pointed out at faults in the rules what else could he do? But I also think that he has to understand me, and as a result no one should take any offense.

- Since you’re so sympathetic about Blake, what did you feel on Friday when coming out to court? That you had to win no matter what? For yourself and for that guy as they say?

Honestly, I did have that thought. First of all I just wanted to win and reach the semis for the first time. Secondly was thinking I should not let down… well ATP amongst others, since they put their money on me and James, who through press wished me to at least win the tournament.

- Your popularity has increased in the last days. Are you complaining about that?

No, I am all for it (laughs). And the guys are jokingly thanking me, “Well done! Now we can go and cancel round robin”.

- Did you easily go through the press conference after the quarters? Or were there any tricky questions?

It was easy, the journalists tried to avoid really sharp questions, were probably afraid I’d say something. On Thursday I probably could have but I didn’t. What for? I want to play on tour for the next maybe 15 years so why should I ruin my life? It happened, so what can you do…

-When on Thursday an announcement was made in the press centre that you would not meet with the journalists many had thought they were trying to hide you and shut you up…

The ATP person who is responsible for press conferences is obliged to inform us journalists are seeking meetings with us. He asked me about five times but I knew the journalists wanted a bang and as you might understand that was the last thing I needed. I was waiting for a call from Etienne that would clarify everything and didn’t want to talk to anyone until then. And everything turned out well…

- I must say that you showed high class on and off court and all I have left to do is congratulate you and wish you the best of luck in Indian Wells and Miami where the tennis world will be watching you much closer from now on.

Thank you very much and a special thanks to Russian supporters and the media for their support. I think I should do well in my next tournament, there won’t be any round robin there. Or maybe… round robin suits me well. I did pass it, didn’t I! They wanted to move me but couldn’t…

thesupreme
03-05-2007, 12:33 PM
Some of you guys are like the greatest backseat drivers i've ever seen, some of you know everything after reading the net or watching Eurosport. Yes, its silly to change the rules in the middle of a tournament, thats undeniable. But one thing you armchair umpires dont do is put yourself in someones else shoes...if I were Blake and that happened to me i'd be absolutely effing furious!!

Blame the format more than blaming the player. Yes, you could say that noone should have played in the tourney if they dont agree with the rules (that are unfair) but these stupid derogatory comments about many players in general are childish, it aint easy out there...like we'd really know

Honestly, its naive to believe that everyone would have rolled over and accepted this situation. Jokers

boughtmypoints
03-05-2007, 12:37 PM
Look, I'm no James Blake fan and I think the Harvard thang is way over stated.

James is a typical American ATP player ... along the lines of

"You don't ever give an American a point as you will never get it back", as one Aussie put it many moons ago.

All that said, I can very much understand his behavior immediately after his match.

He went into the match knowing he had to kill his opponent, dropping as few games as possible. As opposed to many matches where the fireworks only begin with the 7th or 9th games, Blake had to be "on" from the start.

But unlike Guga who famously used to state that he used to want to destroy his opponent during the match but as soon as it was over, he could switch off the animus, Blake probably had a problem switching off that night. He wanted to win ... at all costs.

And I dare say it, he is not the statesman/sportsman/gentleman to come clean about his post match actions. He is American, after all.

All ATP Players get used to idiosyncratic implementation of rules. Being a pro tennis player is as much understanding how to game the system.

How fair it is these days that the #1 seed can lose final round of qualies at a slam and end up behind an ALT on the LL list? It may not be fair but the ATP feel it is necessary to avoid a lot of tanks that were happening ...

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 12:40 PM
Annie, thanks for the full translation of the interview it was appreciated.

Korolev = Round Robin Killa

Saumon
03-05-2007, 12:41 PM
thanks Anna :hug:

:yeah: Zhenya :yeah: Marat :yeah: the other players in Vegas and :yeah: the players in Dubai!

Korolev is just so sweet and he even managed to keep his sense of humour :hug:

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 12:41 PM
Some of you guys are like the greatest backseat drivers i've ever seen, some of you know everything after reading the net or watching Eurosport. Yes, its silly to change the rules in the middle of a tournament, thats undeniable. But one thing you armchair umpires dont do is put yourself in someones else shoes...if I were Blake and that happened to me i'd be absolutely effing furious!!

How about being informed of the particular rules. It doesn't take much time for that to happen.

Winston's Human
03-05-2007, 12:42 PM
I'm beginning to think that Blake isn't as popular in the locker room as his fawning press would have us believe, because the rest of the guys certainly roused themselves to shoot him down. :lol: After this little incident, he'll be lucky if any of the junior girls will hit with him. He's going to be completely radioactive. :lol:

It's really too bad that the Vegas event was covered on TTC, instead of ESPN, because I would really have loved to hear Patty-Mac try to talk his way out of this mess. :lol:

Of course, Blake is not as popular as our fawning press would have us believe. The race-obsessed US sports press is too busy trying to re-create Blake as the next Arthur Ashe rather than seeing him as a real person with strengths and deficits. As with any other player, I am sure that there are fellow players who like him and fellow players who dislike him.

While I think RR is ridiculous and, if I had been Blake, I would have been pi**ed, the rules seem so clear Korolev should advance that it will be interesting to see who prompted the call to DeV.

Whistleway
03-05-2007, 12:46 PM
Safin is a great fair dude. And kudos for doing the right thing. I wonder if Blake would be asked to step down from his whatever player council position. IMHO, he should resign over this fiasco. And that ATP Disney dude needs a kick in his butt and I wish he would go shoot himself as well ;)

boughtmypoints
03-05-2007, 12:47 PM
I translated the whole interview. It helps to get a complete picture from Zhenya's point of view. Enjoy :) [/i]

Annichke, spasiba bolshoi!

thesupreme
03-05-2007, 12:48 PM
How about being informed of the particular rules. It doesn't take much time for that to happen.

My point is that the rules are WRONG yet i see little condemnation for that but much for someone who has been so obviously cheated by them...it should all be judged in context not just 'Well, he's american..he would be like that' :o

scarecrows
03-05-2007, 12:50 PM
great interview, and thanks for the translation :yeah:

vincayou
03-05-2007, 12:50 PM
I think that we should all thank Blake, Korolev and Del Potro for putting the last nail in the coffin of RR. They all played their part at perfection. :)

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 12:52 PM
My point is that the rules are WRONG yet i see little condemnation for that but much for someone who has been so obviously cheated by them...it should all be judged in context not just 'Well, he's american..he would be like that' :o

There are reasons as to why this rule is in place. It's not relevant whether people like the rules or not. This was what was decided at the time of the tournament starting and the way it should finish.

Korolev knew the rules, Hewitt, Safin, del Potro and T.Johansson knew them. It's not the point, Blake should have known rules as his position on the Player Council would make it imperative that he did.

He wasn't cheated at all.

Whistleway
03-05-2007, 12:55 PM
I translated the whole interview. It helps to get a complete picture from Zhenya's point of view. Enjoy :)

They wanted to move me but couldn’t…[/i]

Nice to see him act very nice and cool about it. Best of luck !!

Saumon
03-05-2007, 12:59 PM
My point is that the rules are WRONG yet i see little condemnation for that but much for someone who has been so obviously cheated by them...it should all be judged in context not just 'Well, he's american..he would be like that' :o

who said it was because he was american? :confused:
we've said one million times it's just weird that the other players knew the rules but the Players Council VP didn't! :o

User id 7816
03-05-2007, 01:01 PM
thanx for the translation Annie. Korolev seems to have handled the situation very well and sees things as they are.
- Your popularity has increased in the last days. Are you complaining about that?

No, I am all for it (laughs). And the guys are jokingly thanking me, “Well done! Now we can go and cancel round robin”.
:lol: lets hope :P

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 01:02 PM
RR has a hole (well... many) and this situation proves it's an absolute shite system. Blake obviously could be pissed off even if he should just have let it go.
Most players would have at least complain about it. Trying and change the rule in the middle was obviously not very classy : if you don't like the system, just don't play the tournament.

On a side note, I'm amused at the number of posters outraged by Blake's comportment when even Korolev say he understands him.

Morning All,

And has anyone stopped to think that Korolev said that because he knew he and Del made a pact - and he was feeling a little guilty? Is that so hard to fathom? I think these two talked about it before the infamous match. I'm not saying it happened for sure - but I think there is a strong possibility that it did and James sniffed it out.

Some are talking about James like he a dog - but what if the two others in his group had already discussed it? Didn't someone mention that Disney was the one speaking concerning rather or not Del Porto knew the rule or not, and that he did know it? My thing is - did he or didn't he? IMO - that is another reason James was pissed - he smelled something - and it may not have been his imagination.

My bottom line is the truth stands tall by itself. Always has and always will. And if it was a fix - then we all know that someone will slip up and tell about it - and then the BS will certainly hit the fan.

Again, the above is my perception as it struck me last night by reading the lines and the in between the lines. It's not over yet. There will still be a buzz and talk in the locker room - and the meeting in Miami. So we shall see said the people that weren't there.

alelysafina
03-05-2007, 01:06 PM
Morning All,

And has anyone stopped to think that Korolev said that because he knew he and Del made a pact - and he was feeling a little guilty? Is that so hard to fathom? I think these two talked about it before the infamous match. I'm not saying it happened for sure - but I think there is a strong possibility that it did and James sniffed it out.

Some are talking about James like he a dog - but what if the two others in his group had already discussed it? Didn't someone mention that Disney was the one speaking concerning rather or not Del Porto knew the rule or not, and that he did know it? My thing is - did he or didn't he? IMO - that is another reason James was pissed - he smelled something - and it may not have been his imagination.

My bottom line is the truth stands tall by itself. Always has and always will. And if it was a fix - then we all know that someone will slip up and tell about it - and then the BS will certainly hit the fan.

Again, the above is my perception as it struck me last night by reading the lines and the in between the lines. It's not over yet. There will still be a buzz and talk in the locker room - and the meeting in Miami. So we shall see said the people that weren't there.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=4981756&postcount=134

Read. It.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 01:08 PM
Morning All,

And has anyone stopped to think that Korolev said that because he knew he and Del made a pact - and he was feeling a little guilty? Is that so hard to fathom? I think these two talked about it before the infamous match. I'm not saying it happened for sure - but I think there is a strong possibility that it did and James sniffed it out.

Some are talking about James like he a dog - but what if the two others in his group had already discussed it? Didn't someone mention that Disney was the one speaking concerning rather or not Del Porto knew the rule or not, and that he did know it? My thing is - did he or didn't he? IMO - that is another reason James was pissed - he smelled something - and it may not have been his imagination.

My bottom line is the truth stands tall by itself. Always has and always will. And if it was a fix - then we all know that someone will slip up and tell about it - and then the BS will certainly hit the fan.

Again, the above is my perception as it struck me last night by reading the lines and the in between the lines. It's not over yet. There will still be a buzz and talk in the locker room - and the meeting in Miami. So we shall see said the people that weren't there.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/GeorgeWH/violin.gifhttp://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/GeorgeWH/violin.gifhttp://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/GeorgeWH/violin.gifhttp://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/GeorgeWH/violin.gif at the conspiracy theories. How many times does it have to be said that del Potro was clearly ill in this match.

If you are sure about this is the case and not someone suffering from blind fanaticism, then why hasn't Mr.Blake come up with a statement as of yet.

TheMightyFed
03-05-2007, 01:09 PM
Thanks Round Robin, for giving us threads with a thriller atosphere: different versions, the victim, the not so good guy, the wise king, the helping brother, the puppet manager.... I now understand why RR is good !

{Annie}
03-05-2007, 01:10 PM
:spit: Uh huh.. because clearly Del Potro really didn't want to proceed to semis in Las Vegas and let Korolev have a go

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 01:10 PM
All,

Clearly ill - my mashed potato. I saw the match from 4-1. Please let me have my opinion.

lau
03-05-2007, 01:12 PM
Morning All,

And has anyone stopped to think that Korolev said that because he knew he and Del made a pact - and he was feeling a little guilty? Is that so hard to fathom? I think these two talked about it before the infamous match. I'm not saying it happened for sure - but I think there is a strong possibility that it did and James sniffed it out.

Some are talking about James like he a dog - but what if the two others in his group had already discussed it? Didn't someone mention that Disney was the one speaking concerning rather or not Del Porto knew the rule or not, and that he did know it? My thing is - did he or didn't he? IMO - that is another reason James was pissed - he smelled something - and it may not have been his imagination.

My bottom line is the truth stands tall by itself. Always has and always will. And if it was a fix - then we all know that someone will slip up and tell about it - and then the BS will certainly hit the fan.

Again, the above is my perception as it struck me last night by reading the lines and the in between the lines. It's not over yet. There will still be a buzz and talk in the locker room - and the meeting in Miami. So we shall see said the people that weren't there.

We should call Mulder and Scully to solve the whole puzzle.

I translated the whole interview. It helps to get a complete picture from Zhenya's point of view. Enjoy :)

Thanks :yeah:

:spit: Uh huh.. because clearly Del Potro really didn't want to proceed to semis in Las Vegas and let Korolev have a go
;) He wasn´t ill either. And the trainer was not checking his pulse a couple of times and didn´t advise him to retire. :p

MaryWalsh
03-05-2007, 01:13 PM
Thank you very much for the translation Annie!

alelysafina
03-05-2007, 01:15 PM
All,

Clearly ill - my mashed potato. I saw the match from 4-1. Please let me have my opinion.

So did a lot of other people on MTF and you are the only one with a delusional conspiracy theory.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 01:16 PM
All,

Clearly ill - my mashed potato. I saw the match from 4-1. Please let me have my opinion.

So breathing problems are something to be laughed at, then are they? Never ever thought his illness could have contributed to the scoreline, no that would be too radical.

I knew people that were there and not even fans of del Potro and they could see something wasn't right physically. Trying to invent a conspiracy theory cause little James's image has taken a dent.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/GeorgeWH/deadhorse.gifhttp://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/GeorgeWH/deadhorse.gif

ASP0315
03-05-2007, 01:16 PM
Thanks Anna 4 ever for the article and also thanks Annie for the translation
of Korolev interview.
Evgeny Korolev handled the situation very well. :yeah: It is good to see Marat, Lleyton and Tojo supporting him.

You are such jerk Blake. It is :o for players council VP and a harvard guy to behave like this. :lol: I agree with you Saumon.

Finally this messy RR needs to be removed. I would'nt blame blake for this fiasco but i'm not happy with the 'common sense' comments made by him and it made it very suspicious this he got something to do with bending the rules in the middle of the tournament. Mr Disney is a disgrace to ATP and the tour is getting bad name because of him.

ASP0315
03-05-2007, 01:18 PM
All,

Clearly ill - my mashed potato. I saw the match from 4-1. Please let me have my opinion.

We respect your opinion. But get used to reality of politics. ;)

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 01:20 PM
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=4981756&postcount=134

Read. It.

All,

Oh - so because Korolev related what he did in an interview - all of us are supposed to believe him? Within the interview he says - when he walked up to Blake he says this and that - and he then mentions - not that he felt guilty - but in the AP article - he says he felt guilty. Why should the word guilt come into play? Sounds like he is protesting about whether he should feel guilty or not - toooooooo much.

Again - something was up - and me thinks, James knew it and still knows it and that is why he is pissed to high heaven.

God knows the truth - and if there was a fix - He will put obstacles in the path of the wrong doers and some of us know this. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm out. Again - I respect you all's opinion - please respect mine.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 01:25 PM
Spare the religious crap.

Rosa Luxembourg
03-05-2007, 01:28 PM
Morning All,

And has anyone stopped to think that Korolev said that because he knew he and Del made a pact - and he was feeling a little guilty? Is that so hard to fathom? I think these two talked about it before the infamous match. I'm not saying it happened for sure - but I think there is a strong possibility that it did and James sniffed it out.

Some are talking about James like he a dog - but what if the two others in his group had already discussed it? Didn't someone mention that Disney was the one speaking concerning rather or not Del Porto knew the rule or not, and that he did know it? My thing is - did he or didn't he? IMO - that is another reason James was pissed - he smelled something - and it may not have been his imagination.

My bottom line is the truth stands tall by itself. Always has and always will. And if it was a fix - then we all know that someone will slip up and tell about it - and then the BS will certainly hit the fan.

Again, the above is my perception as it struck me last night by reading the lines and the in between the lines. It's not over yet. There will still be a buzz and talk in the locker room - and the meeting in Miami. So we shall see said the people that weren't there.


:bs: :bs: :bs: Just give it up already.:p

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 01:28 PM
those who have thet gasquetaires sign in their sig shouldnt be taken seriously

:lol: thanks, genci! now i finally know why you never take me seriously!

boughtmypoints
03-05-2007, 01:28 PM
And has anyone stopped to think that Korolev said that because he knew he and Del made a pact ...

Even if Del Potro told Korolev ahead of time he would be retiring if things were going badly, THAT IS NOT A PACT.

Let's say Korolev knew Del Potro was feeling poorly. Possibly EVERYBODY knew but Del Potro decided to see if he could play. He felt worse, so he retired. It's his right to retire and by the way, you can't retire until the tournament supervisor says you can!

The last thing a coach for Korolev would want is for his guy to feel he owes something to Del Potro.

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 01:29 PM
Spare the religious crap.

All,

Make me! Who do you think you are to me? You can't and won't bully me. You got that!

Rosa Luxembourg
03-05-2007, 01:29 PM
Thanks, Anna for translation.

Korolev really seems to be classy, grounded and very mature.

gogogirl
03-05-2007, 01:32 PM
Even if Del Potro told Korolev ahead of time he would be retiring if things were going badly, THAT IS NOT A PACT.

Let's say Korolev know Del Potro was feeling poorly? Possibly EVERYBODY knew but Del Potro decided to see if he could play. He felt worse, so he retired. It's his right to retire and by the way, you can't retire until the tournament supervisor says you can!

The last thing a coach for Korolev would want is for his guy to feel he owes something to Del Potro.

All,

Again - you have a right to your opinion. I respect it and you. I have the right to mine. Del started feeling poorly behind that whipping james was putting on him. That is my opinion.

That's it for me on this thread. Over and out.

Have a good one.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 01:33 PM
By all means have a different opinion, but there isn't a need to bring religious stuff into this conversation.

boughtmypoints explained it clearly. A player can't retire without the supervisor approving it.

alelysafina
03-05-2007, 01:35 PM
All,

Make me! Who do you think you are to me? You can't and won't bully me. You got that!

Then stop posting all this crap. You know as well as anyone that there was no way the match was fixed, you're just trying to hold on to any little thread you can grasp because you don't want to admit that James had a little fault in him and was not as perfect or as much of a gentleman as he has been previously perceived. Some might blame this incident a bit on him, but we all know who is truly to blame and that is De Villiers for instituting round robin.

So stop what you are doing be it if you are doing it just for kicks or what it may be. This is a serious incident in our sport which we are all trying to rectify and make sense of.

Rosa Luxembourg
03-05-2007, 01:37 PM
All,

Oh - so because Korolev related what he did in an interview - all of us are supposed to believe him? Within the interview he says - when he walked up to Blake he says this and that - and he then mentions - not that he felt guilty - but in the AP article - he says he felt guilty. Why should the word guilt come into play? Sounds like he is protesting about whether he should feel guilty or not - toooooooo much.

Again - something was up - and me thinks, James knew it and still knows it and that is why he is pissed to high heaven.

God knows the truth - and if there was a fix - He will put obstacles in the path of the wrong doers and some of us know this. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm out. Again - I respect you all's opinion - please respect mine.

more of :bs: And after this request for opinion respect sounds even more :bs:

amierin
03-05-2007, 01:38 PM
Annie thank you for the translation!

cmurray
03-05-2007, 01:41 PM
I'm sorta glad this happened. I knew this was going to be convoluted, but I had no idea it would happen so quickly.

As for James' behavior. I dunno - maybe you are being a little harsh on him. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he was right in what he did, but he had to be pretty damned frustrated. Chances are, with the pounding he was putting on Del Potro, he probably WOULD have advanced. I can understand him getting mad about the opportunity being taken from him.

That being said, the real villain here is 'ol Etienne. Why wasn't there a provision in the rules for this? Retirements happen all the time. And while I doubt there was something untoward happening here, its just another opportunity for players to cheat.

Korolev was VERY diplomatic about the whole thing, so you have to hand it to him for not being bitter towards James. He's the only person involved in this that handled himself properly.

scoobs
03-05-2007, 01:53 PM
Respecting a different opinion is generally a good thing but it has its clear limits - people cannot be expected to respect someone's opinion if they post clear and present bullshit. If you take the idea of respecting someone's opinion whatever they post to its logical conclusion, you end up being expected to respect the views of nazis, child molesters, etc. It's not going to happen.

I believe you only have the right to expect people to respect your opinion if you stick to the known facts, do not ignore inconvenient facts, and the dispute is due to the differences that arise over interpretations of, and conclusions drawn from, those facts.

mickymouse
03-05-2007, 02:01 PM
Blake clearly didn't do the right thing by supporting a change of rules in favor of a QF place for himself but from his position, can you blame him for being upset and perhaps in the heat of the moment, giving the ATP a piece of his own mind which resulted in them bending the rules? I mean, when Del Potro retired and everyone thought Korolev was through, everyone on MTF was moaning about the injustice to Blake and the unfairness of the rule in regard to retirement. If everyone thought it was unfair for Blake to be eliminated under such circumstances, can we not expect Blake himself to feel even more indignant and just for a moment, feel that a bending of the rules may not be unjustified? I didn't think he did the right thing but I think it's understandable why he did something like that and I'm just slightly amused at the self-righteousness of some MTFers at the whole issue. You would think that Blake hired somebody to beat up Korolev at the way they rake him over the coals. All thee holier-than-thou bashers, is this the first time rules were bent because a top player was involved? If the organisation is willing to bend or better still change the rules for your benefit, are you not going to gladly seize upon the opportunity?
Again, I want to stress that Blake hasn't portrayed himself in the best of light but the fuss made regarding the whole manner of his comportment is just ridiculous.

LocoPorElTenis
03-05-2007, 02:11 PM
All,

I'm astute enough to know that we all have opinions. I don't want to argue with fools. None of us know anything for sure. But I will say this. Del was fine until James blitzed his rump 6-1. He felt it, and he wasn't even out there long enough to develop breathing problems. The trainer at first was tending to his wrist. He knew he wouldn't be able to stop James' firepower. The commnetators were saying that James was playing brilliantly. He had 4 UEs in the first set. His serve was all the way on. He was feeling it. Del wasn't - and we know that.

One of the most idiotic posts EVER. And that's saying a lot on MTF.

A lot of people saw the match and it's clear JMDP was having clear physical discomfort. So stop spreading bullshit please. We are all entitled to our opinions, but we should be basing them on objective facts. You're missing reality altogether.

gulzhan
03-05-2007, 02:19 PM
Blake did what most players would have done.


some players would try to appeal (far from everyone though!), and NONE would get what blake did :p

but he had no right even to appeal because he is a RR poster player so... enjoy what you wanted so much! :eek:

James was pissed, so would most other players.
I can just imagine my favourite player, Marat Safin, cruising to the next round, and then getting kicked out because his opponent retired. He would have made much more of a fuss than Blake...
Korolev himself said that Blake pointed out a fault in the system. It was incredibly unfair to him.

blake seemed to be ok when it was unfair for fereiro :shrug:

as to safin-- give me a break! you don't know him then, safin would not do a thing, he is a real man, he'd curse RR and atp but won't appeal, period :o

One difference. Safin knew what the rules were and wouldn't want to them to be changed mid event to suit his needs.

:yeah:

george knows safin well :p

All,

Oh - so because Korolev related what he did in an interview - all of us are supposed to believe him? Within the interview he says - when he walked up to Blake he says this and that - and he then mentions - not that he felt guilty - but in the AP article - he says he felt guilty. Why should the word guilt come into play? Sounds like he is protesting about whether he should feel guilty or not - toooooooo much.

Again - something was up - and me thinks, James knew it and still knows it and that is why he is pissed to high heaven.

God knows the truth - and if there was a fix - He will put obstacles in the path of the wrong doers and some of us know this. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm out. Again - I respect you all's opinion - please respect mine.

first, you don't respect our opinion, so no need for false politeness :p

second, god knows the truth, i agree... and didn't he say-- give the god's to god and king's to king? :confused: something like that, i know this part in russian only :lol: so, bottom line is-- god knows politics are dirty and he does not mess with it ;) he also advised his believers not to mess with it too :lol: i doubt he'd feel very sympathetic with the little politician, james the "fake" ;)

zicofirol
03-05-2007, 02:23 PM
All,

Again - you have a right to your opinion. I respect it and you. I have the right to mine. Del started feeling poorly behind that whipping james was putting on him. That is my opinion.

That's it for me on this thread. Over and out.

Have a good one.

according to people who saw the match, he was having trouble from the beginning... you also assumed korolev spoke bad english... maybe you should stop taking your assumptions as facts...

mer
03-05-2007, 02:31 PM
Again, I want to stress that Blake hasn't portrayed himself in the best of light but the fuss made regarding the whole manner of his comportment is just ridiculous.
I totally agree. None of the players involved said a bad word about Blake in regard to this situation. They put the blame entirely on organization and CEO. But MTF as usual is very quick to judge and bash any player who had misfortune to find himself in a controversal situation. In fact Blake turned out to be a more victim of this crap than Zhenya. He was in a loss-loss situation. He had the right to be pissed at the stupid rule but any complain from his side could put him in a vilain position.

User id 7816
03-05-2007, 02:34 PM
Blake clearly didn't do the right thing by supporting a change of rules in favor of a QF place for himself
We agree on the main thing.
but from his position, can you blame him for being upset and perhaps in the heat of the moment, giving the ATP a piece of his own mind which resulted in them bending the rules? I mean, when Del Potro retired and everyone thought Korolev was through, everyone on MTF was moaning about the injustice to Blake and the unfairness of the rule in regard to retirement. If everyone thought it was unfair for Blake to be eliminated under such circumstances, can we not expect Blake himself to feel even more indignant and just for a moment, feel that a bending of the rules may not be unjustified?
Yes, I think everyone can understand Blake (and anyone else being eliminated in such circumstance) would be feeling the injustice. But I still dont think one should accept bending the rules - they were unfair once to himself, why make them unfair to another person, Korolev? How about thinking about him aswell?
I didn't think he did the right thing but I think it's understandable why he did something like that
:scratch:
and I'm just slightly amused at the self-righteousness of some MTFers at the whole issue. You would think that Blake hired somebody to beat up Korolev at the way they rake him over the coals.
I find it funny how many people are jumping on the "Blake's good guy image is phony" bandwaggon and with passion. Heh. I guess it shows people care about this "image" thing a lot. As for me, no thanx, I draw my conclusions from what I see on court.
is this the first time rules were bent because a top player was involved?
I was wondering about this actually...anyone?
If the organisation is willing to bend or better still change the rules for your benefit, are you not going to gladly seize upon the opportunity?
If it would screw someone else undeservedly (and how about this - in a regular draw Blake would have been out in the 1st round right?), like it was gonna be in this case with Korolev - would you find it hard to believe that I would not seize it?

Again, I want to stress that Blake hasn't portrayed himself in the best of light but the fuss made regarding the whole manner of his comportment is just ridiculous.
As I said, I enjoy watching Blake on court so this episode, apart from clearing some political issues to me, means not much else. I realise the blame is on DeV mostly and I dont approve Blake being ready to take rule change, but that cant stop me from enjoying his tennis.(unless its in a RR tourney :lol:)

Sofyaxo
03-05-2007, 02:35 PM
I think things get seriously mixed between the people that love Blake and the ones that want to rip him to pieces over this.

No one is really trying to blame Blake for what happened, and I think he had every right to be vocal about thinking it was complete BS for Korolev to move on, because it was.

It was what he said to the press that is making people mad. For a man that is very media savvy he completely killed himself in those interviews. I don't know if his wording was off or what but he made himself sound like an ass. There is no way to get around the fact that he said he supported the rule change, for him. It isn't that hard to say something like 'I'm just happy to move on'.

All of the blame is on the ATP, but Blake's little case of foot in mouth disease can't go without being noticed.

Socket
03-05-2007, 02:42 PM
Kudos to all the players who worked to defend Korolev, the new kid, against the schoolyard bullies. :yeah: Special shout-out to Safin, who went the extra mile for him. :yeah: :yeah:

Blake should now be tied to a chair, have his eyes pinned open like Malcom MacDowell in A Clockwork Orange and be forced to watch 500 consecutive showings of the video from RG of Lleyton lip-synching to Eye of the Tiger. That'll teach him. :devil:

Shrinking Violet
03-05-2007, 02:52 PM
Thanks for the full translation. The other guys do come out this well. Nice to see Korolev has managed to bring down the RR format as well. :yeah: I love Marat even more after reading the second translation. :smooch:

I would hope Blake will come out soon and put his version of events out - he isn't coming across great at the moment, but that may just be because we aren't hearing from him.

scoobs
03-05-2007, 03:08 PM
Marat is a dude :worship:

Lot of credit to him for looking out for Korolev and saying what needed to be said.

I also love his "wait until Roger and Andy hear about this" comment - sort like - "we're the boys - and don't piss us off..." :)

boughtmypoints
03-05-2007, 03:21 PM
No one is really trying to blame Blake for what happened, and I think he had every right to be vocal about thinking it was complete BS for Korolev to move on, because it was.


What makes H2H a bs way of breaking a tie?

If anything, the counting of sets and/or games won is a lot more arbitrary than a plain, simple H2H analysis.

Blake dug his own grave by losing badly to Korolev in the first place. From that point on he was not in control of his destiny, much as he would like to have been.

2moretogo
03-05-2007, 03:33 PM
:yeah: They used to be the New Balls, but now they're the Balls in Charge. It's so beautiful! :sobbing:

:worship: :worship: :worship: I like this....

Annie, thanks for the translation.

James, yikes. IW should be interesting.

Sofyaxo
03-05-2007, 03:33 PM
What makes H2H a bs way of breaking a tie?

If anything, the counting of sets and/or games won is a lot more arbitrary than a plain, simple H2H analysis.

Blake dug his own grave by losing badly to Korolev in the first place. From that point on he was not in control of his destiny, much as he would like to have been.

I think you might have misunderstood me. I get the rules, and I wasn't sticking up for him. I was saying that it would have been okay for him to complain that the RR rules were BS, because they are.

Even though his complaining obviously started a huge chain of events.

mariana.ml
03-05-2007, 03:53 PM
I'm sorta glad this happened. I knew this was going to be convoluted, but I had no idea it would happen so quickly.

As for James' behavior. I dunno - maybe you are being a little harsh on him. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he was right in what he did, but he had to be pretty damned frustrated. Chances are, with the pounding he was putting on Del Potro, he probably WOULD have advanced. I can understand him getting mad about the opportunity being taken from him.

That being said, the real villain here is 'ol Etienne. Why wasn't there a provision in the rules for this? Retirements happen all the time. And while I doubt there was something untoward happening here, its just another opportunity for players to cheat.

Korolev was VERY diplomatic about the whole thing, so you have to hand it to him for not being bitter towards James. He's the only person involved in this that handled himself properly.


I think you might have misunderstood me. I get the rules, and I wasn't sticking up for him. I was saying that it would have been okay for him to complain that the RR rules were BS, because they are.

Even though his complaining obviously started a huge chain of events.

There was a provision for retirements: Retirements don't count.
I suppose Blake knew the rules before the tournament. It would be a shame if he didn't, given his position as the VP of the players council. The players agreed to try RR and I don't believe they would accept to do something without knowing the rules.

Gulliver
03-05-2007, 03:59 PM
The one mainly responsible for this mess is de Villiers, but Mark Darby is too. It is obvious that as ATP Supervisor Mark Darby had already said that Korolev should go through, but he was then pressurised by ? to approach the CEO.

This weakness on Darby's part (anything for a quiet life maybe??) rebounded on him when de V, instead of supporting him, overruled him and set in motion the whole wretched train of events, including the "give Korolev some money"....appalling.

Blake naturally felt aggrieved at what had happened in his match, and if he questioned the rules fair enough, but Darby should have held firm. After the de V intervention, Blake then became the fall guy for an error of judgement by 2 ATP officials.

The only people to come out of this well are Korolev and the players who supported him to get de V's decision reversed. Blake, on reflection, will probably wish he'd kept his mouth shut.

scoobs
03-05-2007, 04:00 PM
Federer's statement after Dubai made it clear he's going to demand it be scrapped in Miami, noting the ATP was under pressure over the issue (and knowing full well he was adding to it by saying so), and publicly slapping down De Villiers - the coded statement that he had got his hands burned was clearly a rebuke for overstepping his authority and worse, damaging the integrity of the sport.

Socket
03-05-2007, 04:09 PM
The one mainly responsible for this mess is de Villiers, but Mark Darby is too. It is obvious that as ATP Supervisor Mark Darby had already said that Korolev should go through, but he was then pressurised by ? to approach the CEO.

This weakness on Darby's part (anything for a quiet life maybe??) rebounded on him when de V, instead of supporting him, overruled him and set in motion the whole wretched train of events, including the "give Korolev some money"....appalling.

Blake naturally felt aggrieved at what had happened in his match, and if he questioned the rules fair enough, but Darby should have held firm. After the de V intervention, Blake then became the fall guy for an error of judgement by 2 ATP officials.

The only people to come out of this well are Korolev and the players who supported him to get de V's decision reversed. Blake, on reflection, will probably wish he'd kept his mouth shut.

Personally, I don't think that Darby himself called de Villiers. If anybody, he would have called Gayle Bradshaw, the ATP's VP for rules and competition. Darby would know the right person to call, and wouldn't want to piss off Bradshaw by going to the CEO. I think that somebody else called de Villiers, going over both Darby's and Bradshaw's heads, and I agree with Korolev's speculation as to who that somebody is.

scoobs
03-05-2007, 04:12 PM
Personally, I don't think that Darby himself called de Villiers. If anybody, he would have called Gayle Bradshaw, the ATP's VP for rules and competition. Darby would know the right person to call, and wouldn't want to piss off Bradshaw by going to the CEO. I think that somebody else called de Villiers, going over both Darby's and Bradshaw's heads, and I agree with Korolev's speculation as to who that somebody is.
I get the impression that

a) there was a lot of pissed off people in the ATP hierarchy last week during all this, and

b) there's going to be a lot of pissed off people making some strong points at the meeting in March.

What I'd give to have been/be a fly on the wall at both of these :)

Socket
03-05-2007, 04:16 PM
I get the impression that

a) there was a lot of pissed off people in the ATP hierarchy last week during all this, and

b) there's going to be a lot of pissed off people making some strong points at the meeting in March.

What I'd give to have been/be a fly on the wall at both of these :)

I'd also like to be a fly on the wall of the locker room when Blake tries to explain all this shit to his fellow players ("but guys, do you still like me?"). :lol: I'm sure Davydenko in particular will have a few choice words with him. :lol:

Jogy
03-05-2007, 04:21 PM
Just funny how people who are reading something on the net or who hear and read something without ever be there want to know what happened exactly between Korolev and Blake :haha: Good interview of Korolev, but he could say everything.

Of course was del Potro honest injured and ill in the match :rolleyes: he got breathing problems, you can not fake that. And I'm sure all you who did not even see the match and only write what you read anywhere else or hear without knowing the happening :lol: del Potro was as many injured as you are if you know you loose first set and break behind in 2nd.

Hey let believe one thing, but not the other.

2moretogo
03-05-2007, 04:22 PM
I'd also like to be a fly on the wall of the locker room when Blake tries to explain all this shit to his fellow players ("but guys, do you still like me?"). :lol: I'm sure Davydenko in particular will have a few choice words with him. :lol:

Strangely, I think they understand. But yes, it would be interesting to see the dynamics in the lockerroom.

As far as the jokes, and people asking James how stupid could you be to step into a media minefield like this?

Also, interested to know if De Villian will show his face, and attempt to explain the situation.

Wonder if they will have a "players only" meeting since, almost everyone will be there.

Jogy
03-05-2007, 04:25 PM
It's his right to retire and by the way, you can't retire until the tournament supervisor says you can!
Not always, I seen many guys retire only by telling chair umpire. A short note is enough.

mickymouse
03-05-2007, 04:36 PM
[QUOTE=Alma;4982083]We agree on the main thing.

Yes, I think everyone can understand Blake (and anyone else being eliminated in such circumstance) would be feeling the injustice. But I still dont think one should accept bending the rules - they were unfair once to himself, why make them unfair to another person, Korolev? How about thinking about him aswell?

I was wondering about this actually...anyone?

If it would screw someone else undeservedly (and how about this - in a regular draw Blake would have been out in the 1st round right?), like it was gonna be in this case with Korolev - would you find it hard to believe that I would not seize it?

QUOTE]
It's easy to take the high road as a third party. However in the heat of the moment, many do tend to think more of their own injustice rather than from another person's viewpoint. Not many are able to rationally think "Oh I'm hurting the other person, I should be fair to him too" when you feel you are being screwed over. Perhaps now that Blake has time to reconsider the whole episode over, he would be able to see the error of his ways? I've already emphasized that what he did wasn't right but there are mitigating factors and that ATP should be blamed for giving in to players' demands.

smucav
03-05-2007, 04:48 PM
Personally, I don't think that Darby himself called de Villiers. If anybody, he would have called Gayle Bradshaw, the ATP's VP for rules and competition. Darby would know the right person to call, and wouldn't want to piss off Bradshaw by going to the CEO. I think that somebody else called de Villiers, going over both Darby's and Bradshaw's heads, and I agree with Korolev's speculation as to who that somebody is.Most of the columnists (Cronin, Bricker, Tandon, etc.) who have raised this question have narrowed the list of suspects to the tournament director, Blake, or Blake's agent. None have suggested that Mark Darby was responsible. He was confident that he made the right decision regarding an issue that's his direct responsibility. Why would he call someone (de Villiers) who has no direct experience in the field for a second opinion?

One issue that no one (that I've read) has raised is the role of Perry Rogers. He's a member of the ATP board of directors, lives in Las Vegas, and was in and out of the tournament all week (as a spectator). Was he consulted at any time by any of the parties?

Saumon
03-05-2007, 04:56 PM
Marat is a dude :worship:

Lot of credit to him for looking out for Korolev and saying what needed to be said.

I also love his "wait until Roger and Andy hear about this" comment - sort like - "we're the boys - and don't piss us off..." :)

:lol: I wouldn't be surprised if Marat himself called Roger:

Marat: "Hey, Roger! It's Marat! I need you to..."
Roger: "...oh Marat, sweetie! I told you yesterday that when it's the day for you in Vegas, you know, it's the middle of the night for me in Dubai, you know... :( no phone sex tonight, I have a match tomorrow! :o I lost a set to Djokovic because of you, you know... :awww: but I'll see you in Indian Wells :aplot: :angel:"
Marat: " :drool: Wait, wait, wait!!! No, no, no!!! You've got to help us a little bit! They're trying to screw my little toyboy Korolev!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :fiery: You've got to intervene! They'll listen too you! :worship: "
Roger: "Ok! I'll see what I can do, honey! ;) "


:p

tcorinna
03-05-2007, 05:00 PM
Marat is a dude :worship:
I also love his "wait until Roger and Andy hear about this" comment - sort like - "we're the boys - and don't piss us off..." :)


I totaly agree with you ... it is ... :inlove: :inlove:

He is such a nice guy :worship:

tcorinna
03-05-2007, 05:04 PM
:lol: I wouldn't be surprised if Marat himself called Roger:

Marat: "Hey, Roger! It's Marat! I need you to..."
Roger: "...oh Marat, sweetie! I told you yesterday that when it's the day for you in Vegas, you know, it's the middle of the night for me in Dubai, you know... :( no phone sex tonight, I have a match tomorrow! :o I lost a set to Djokovic because of you, you know... :awww: but I'll see you in Indian Wells :aplot: :angel:"
Marat " :drool: Wait, wait, wait!!! No, no, no!!! You've got to help us a little bit! They're trying to screw my little toyboy Korolev!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :fiery: You've got to intervene! They'll listen too you! :worship: "
Roger: "Ok! I'll see what I can do, honey! ;) "


:p

:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Speachless

boughtmypoints
03-05-2007, 05:27 PM
Not always, I seen many guys retire only by telling chair umpire. A short note is enough.

Not any longer. And certainly not when I was playing 5 years ago.

Interesting factoid I discovered much to my surprise is that the Supervisor can stop the match if he feels one player's health is endangered. I don't think this has ever been invoked. I know that I should have retired from one particular doubles match with blood streaming down my face but at 2-6, 0-1 I chose to continue (and lose the next 5 games).

I have come down with something very sudden today and I can barely type, let alone look through the ATP match instructions to quote something meaningful. Maybe someone else can. But I know what I have seen with my own eyes, the end of matches held up while the supervisor finds time to make it over to a court where one player wishes to retire.

scoobs
03-05-2007, 05:47 PM
:lol: I wouldn't be surprised if Marat himself called Roger:

Marat: "Hey, Roger! It's Marat! I need you to..."
Roger: "...oh Marat, sweetie! I told you yesterday that when it's the day for you in Vegas, you know, it's the middle of the night for me in Dubai, you know... :( no phone sex tonight, I have a match tomorrow! :o I lost a set to Djokovic because of you, you know... :awww: but I'll see you in Indian Wells :aplot: :angel:"
Marat: " :drool: Wait, wait, wait!!! No, no, no!!! You've got to help us a little bit! They're trying to screw my little toyboy Korolev!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :fiery: You've got to intervene! They'll listen too you! :worship: "
Roger: "Ok! I'll see what I can do, honey! ;) "


:p
Roger would NOT say sweetie. That's not how the shit went down :)

Marat: Rogi?
Roger: *rubbing his eyes* Scheisse...who is it?
Marat: *grumpily* It's Marat. Your big boy? Don't you know my voice by now?
Roger: It's 4am and Mirka is snoring like a cappuchino machine - I wouldn't know my own name right now. What's up? We'll be together next week...
Marat: It's not that...though you know I can hardly wait...I want to run my fingers through your hair and...uh...anyway...no it's De Villiers.
Roger: What has St Etienne done now?
Marat: He bumped Korolev from the QF here in Vegas so Blake could through. Changed the rules over the phone. Shitty decision, man.
Roger: NOW do you believe RR is merde? *sigh* Let me make a few calls. I know some people. He'll change his mind if he wants to avoid going to hospital to have the ATP rulebook surgically removed. Korolev will be back in the draw in 2 hours.
Marat: You're my hero man. Listen, don't go riding any camels - I got enough hump for you next week.
Roger: *thinking of Rafa guiltily* I'm so lucky... :)

Socket
03-05-2007, 05:50 PM
OMG, how did this discussion become the new tennis slash comm? :haha:

lau
03-05-2007, 06:13 PM
Roger would NOT say sweetie. That's not how the shit went down :)

Marat: Rogi?
Roger: *rubbing his eyes* Scheisse...who is it?
Marat: *grumpily* It's Marat. Your big boy? Don't you know my voice by now?
Roger: It's 4am and Mirka is snoring like a cappuchino machine - I wouldn't know my own name right now. What's up? We'll be together next week...
Marat: It's not that...though you know I can hardly wait...I want to run my fingers through your hair and...uh...anyway...no it's De Villiers.
Roger: What has St Etienne done now?
Marat: He bumped Korolev from the QF here in Vegas so Blake could through. Changed the rules over the phone. Shitty decision, man.
Roger: NOW do you believe RR is merde? *sigh* Let me make a few calls. I know some people. He'll change his mind if he wants to avoid going to hospital to have the ATP rulebook surgically removed. Korolev will be back in the draw in 2 hours.
Marat: You're my hero man. Listen, don't go riding any camels - I got enough hump for you next week.
Roger: *thinking of Rafa guiltily* I'm so lucky... :)

:haha: :haha:

Sofonda Cox
03-05-2007, 06:15 PM
Roger would NOT say sweetie. That's not how the shit went down :)

Marat: Rogi?
Roger: *rubbing his eyes* Scheisse...who is it?
Marat: *grumpily* It's Marat. Your big boy? Don't you know my voice by now?
Roger: It's 4am and Mirka is snoring like a cappuchino machine - I wouldn't know my own name right now. What's up? We'll be together next week...
Marat: It's not that...though you know I can hardly wait...I want to run my fingers through your hair and...uh...anyway...no it's De Villiers.
Roger: What has St Etienne done now?
Marat: He bumped Korolev from the QF here in Vegas so Blake could through. Changed the rules over the phone. Shitty decision, man.
Roger: NOW do you believe RR is merde? *sigh* Let me make a few calls. I know some people. He'll change his mind if he wants to avoid going to hospital to have the ATP rulebook surgically removed. Korolev will be back in the draw in 2 hours.
Marat: You're my hero man. Listen, don't go riding any camels - I got enough hump for you next week.
Roger: *thinking of Rafa guiltily* I'm so lucky... :)


this is totally shocking and disgusting!!!! Marat only has eyes for Tursunov!:devil:

nobama
03-05-2007, 06:34 PM
To get this back on topic....is the suggestion now that Blake himself phoned Mr Disney to protest Darby's decision? We have no proof of that do we?

wildegirl05
03-05-2007, 06:35 PM
Roger would NOT say sweetie. That's not how the shit went down :)

Marat: Rogi?
Roger: *rubbing his eyes* Scheisse...who is it?
Marat: *grumpily* It's Marat. Your big boy? Don't you know my voice by now?
Roger: It's 4am and Mirka is snoring like a cappuchino machine - I wouldn't know my own name right now. What's up? We'll be together next week...
Marat: It's not that...though you know I can hardly wait...I want to run my fingers through your hair and...uh...anyway...no it's De Villiers.
Roger: What has St Etienne done now?
Marat: He bumped Korolev from the QF here in Vegas so Blake could through. Changed the rules over the phone. Shitty decision, man.
Roger: NOW do you believe RR is merde? *sigh* Let me make a few calls. I know some people. He'll change his mind if he wants to avoid going to hospital to have the ATP rulebook surgically removed. Korolev will be back in the draw in 2 hours.
Marat: You're my hero man. Listen, don't go riding any camels - I got enough hump for you next week.
Roger: *thinking of Rafa guiltily* I'm so lucky... :)

:haha:

i think for noobs such as myself, this is required reading on how to interject slash really well into a thread. nicely done, both of you!!!

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Socket
03-05-2007, 06:38 PM
Here's an article from the Las Vegas Review-Journal, which adds a few details, such as the conference call with the ATP being three hours long, and comments from Blake's agent.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Mar-03-Sat-2007/sports/12927882.html

Mar. 03, 2007
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

ATP backhands Blake out of Open

Defending champ KO'd by ruling body's late flip-flop; Korolev reaches semis

By STEVE CARP
REVIEW-JOURNAL
When defending champion James Blake went to bed Thursday night, he was still in the Tennis Channel Open. When Blake awoke Friday, he was out.

Hours after a controversial ruling by ATP Tour executive chairman and president Etienne de Villiers that allowed Blake to advance to the quarterfinals over Russian Evgeny Korolev, de Villiers reversed himself, saying he had overstepped his bounds with his decision late Thursday.

"I tried to rule with my heart and do what was fair," de Villiers said Friday from Lisbon, Portugal. "I was wrong. Not only is it wrong to change the rules in the middle of a tournament, I don't have the jurisdiction to do what I did."

Given a reprieve, Korolev went out and dominated American Sam Querrey 6-4, 6-4 to advance to today's semifinals at noon. Korolev will play fourth-seeded Austrian Jurgen Melzer, who defeated Jan Hernych 6-3, 3-6, 6-3.

The controversy began Thursday when Juan Martin Del Potro retired because of respiratory distress during the second set of his final round-robin match with Blake. Blake, thinking he needed to win in straight sets and not lose more than five games in the match to advance, won the first set 6-1 and led 3-1 in the second when Del Potro quit.

Blake thought the match was complete and that he was through to the quarterfinals. However, the round-robin rules state that if a player retires because of injury before the match is completed, the result does not count and the round-robin scoring reverts to the two remaining players in the group.

The first tiebreaker in that instance is head-to-head competition, and Korolev believed he was entitled to advance because he beat Blake 6-2, 6-4 Tuesday. However, after a three-hour conference call between Las Vegas and London, where de Villiers was at the time, the decision was made to allow Blake advance despite the head-to-head rule.

Then came de Villiers' reversal early Friday.

"I felt it was appropriate to make an adjustment of the rules," he said. "Clearly I was wrong to intervene. I regret that I got involved, that I overruled a supervisor and I regret this storm in a teacup."

Korolev, who was preparing to leave for California, quickly abandoned his departure plan and was on Stadium Court at noon facing American wild-card entrant Querrey in the day's opening quarterfinal.

Before the match, master of ceremonies Wayne Bryan told the crowd of the change. There was some booing over the news that Blake would not be appearing, but when Korolev entered the stadium moments later, he received a warm reception.

Blake showed up at the Darling Tennis Center to gather his belongings and accepted de Villiers' revised ruling with only mild disappointment.

"It's been a tumultuous 24 hours," Blake said. "But after realizing everything the ATP went through, I'm completely understanding and I wish Korolev the best of luck, even though it appears he doesn't need any."

As Blake was speaking, Korolev was putting the finishing touches on his victory over Querrey. The ATP's reversal came after an emotional night for the Russian.

"I was pretty angry last night -- not at James, but at the ATP because you can't change the rules in the middle of a tournament. To me, that's not right," Korolev said.

"Then I got a call at 5 in the morning from my agent telling me I was back in, and that made me very happy. But I didn't get much sleep. I went to bed around 3 and I was packed and ready to leave, so I had to unpack and prepare to play.

"It wasn't my normal routine but I was going to go out there and do the best I could. I tried to concentrate because I know if I had lost, everyone would be wondering if I deserved to be playing."

Querrey said he was ready for either opponent.

"It didn't change anything," he said. "I would've prepared the same had I played James.

"(Korolev) played well today. He rips the ball side to side. I got a little frustrated after I made some silly mistakes in a couple of service games. But he's a very good player. I wouldn't be surprised if he won the whole thing."

The ATP's ruling against Blake left the tournament without one of its top drawing cards for the weekend.

"I'm upset right now, but I'll get over it," Blake said. "It's one match, one tournament. There's no hard feelings. Evgeny and I talked last night and everything's fine between us.

"They told me of the change when I woke up and there was nothing I could do about it. This was a common-sense overrule. But if we have to go by the letter of the law, I accept the decision by (de Villiers)."

Blake's agent, Carlos Fleming, said the reversal was distressing.

"He lost a lot of money and a lot of (ATP ranking) points as well," Fleming said. "I think there's a flaw in the rules and they had an opportunity to fix this problem and they didn't."

Actually, had the previous year's format been implemented, Blake would have been eliminated in the first round and not received any ranking points. Instead, Blake will receive 20 points.

The ATP will meet in Miami in three weeks and de Villiers said the issue of round-robin play will be a major topic of discussion.

"The fans seem to love the format," he said. "I think we do have an issue with the format as it pertains to the inadvertent withdrawals and this will require us to revisit our experiment and whether we change the rules or we continue with the experiment when we meet in Miami."

Don't expect much support from Blake to maintain the status quo.

"I was an advocate for the experiment," Blake said. "But now, I'm an advocate for change.

"This has left too bitter a taste in too many people's mouths. We need decisions to be made on the court, not in the boardroom."

Find this article at:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Mar-03-Sat-2007/sports/12927882.html

cmurray
03-05-2007, 06:46 PM
Gosh...I never even THOUGHT of Sam. How fair was it to prepare for one opponent and then face another? it SUCKS actually.

Disney better straighten this out quickly. :(

nobama
03-05-2007, 06:49 PM
What in the heck did they spend three hours discussing? And Blake's comment about Korolev not needing any luck was pretty shitty. Plus his agent complaining about $$ and ranking points. As the article correctly points out had the traditional knock-out system been in place Blake would've been out R1 and not received any points. And I love how now because he feels he got screwed over by RR he wants it changed. :rolleyes:

lau
03-05-2007, 06:51 PM
"He lost a lot of money and a lot of (ATP ranking) points as well," Fleming said. "I think there's a flaw in the rules and they had an opportunity to fix this problem and they didn't."
I find this kind of comment a little funny. If this would have been a regular draw tournament he would have lost in first round...

Socket
03-05-2007, 06:53 PM
I find this kind of comment a little funny. If this would have been a regular draw tournament he would have lost in first round...

That's the point that the sportwriter makes right after that.

From espn.com, Paul Goldstein's comment on the rule at issue, the effect of Del Porto's retiring from his match:

While it seems that James was worthy of advancing because he was well on his way to a convincing victory, it is ironic that he was held back by a rule designed to protect someone in his precise situation. If the retirement rule was not in place, then del Potro could have played one point, quit and been the player to advance in the group based on total number of sets won.

scoobs
03-05-2007, 06:55 PM
"But after realizing everything the ATP went through, I'm completely understanding and I wish Korolev the best of luck, even though it appears he doesn't need any."

Hope that was said with a smile, the last bit - it does not read well in print...

Or Levy
03-05-2007, 06:56 PM
:haha:

i think for noobs such as myself, this is required reading on how to interject slash really well into a thread. nicely done, both of you!!!

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Injecting slash into this thread is a no brainer :) It has all the making of a good soap opera, with Marat and Roger playing heros to save damsel in distress Korolev from the evil world of Tennis politics, along with potential future locker-room brawls.

lau
03-05-2007, 06:56 PM
That's the point that the sportwriter makes right after that.

From espn.com, Paul Goldstein's comment on the rule at issue, the effect of Del Porto's retiring from his match:

yes. I read the article quickly and I missed that :o
Thanks for Goldstein comment. ;)

boughtmypoints
03-05-2007, 07:17 PM
Fair's fair, Blake was saying Korolev didn't need any luck as he was in the process of beating Sam easily. To quote :

"As Blake was speaking, Korolev was putting the finishing touches on his victory over Querrey."

But James really ought to be finding a new agent.

tangerine_dream
03-05-2007, 07:22 PM
Blake clearly didn't do the right thing by supporting a change of rules in favor of a QF place for himself but from his position, can you blame him for being upset and perhaps in the heat of the moment, giving the ATP a piece of his own mind which resulted in them bending the rules? I mean, when Del Potro retired and everyone thought Korolev was through, everyone on MTF was moaning about the injustice to Blake and the unfairness of the rule in regard to retirement. If everyone thought it was unfair for Blake to be eliminated under such circumstances, can we not expect Blake himself to feel even more indignant and just for a moment, feel that a bending of the rules may not be unjustified? I didn't think he did the right thing but I think it's understandable why he did something like that and I'm just slightly amused at the self-righteousness of some MTFers at the whole issue. You would think that Blake hired somebody to beat up Korolev at the way they rake him over the coals. All thee holier-than-thou bashers, is this the first time rules were bent because a top player was involved? If the organisation is willing to bend or better still change the rules for your benefit, are you not going to gladly seize upon the opportunity?
Again, I want to stress that Blake hasn't portrayed himself in the best of light but the fuss made regarding the whole manner of his comportment is just ridiculous.
I agree. James doesn't come out of this smelling of roses but he's hardly the boogeyman here. And it's still not proven that it was Blake who asked Mr Disney to bend the rules. Heresay doesn't count.

It's also laughable that Marat and Lleyton are suddenly heroic in this mess and when we all know they would've done the same thing Blake did. Marat was just protecting a countryman. Would he have the done the same thing if Korolev were not Russian? I seriously doubt it.

I'd also like to be a fly on the wall of the locker room when Blake tries to explain all this shit to his fellow players...I'm sure Davydenko in particular will have a few choice words with him. :lol:
Har. The one guy who has less friends on tour than Vince Spadea.

scoobs
03-05-2007, 07:24 PM
Fair's fair, Blake was saying Korolev didn't need any luck as he was in the process of beating Sam easily. To quote :

"As Blake was speaking, Korolev was putting the finishing touches on his victory over Querrey."

But James really ought to be finding a new agent.
That makes a lot more sense - thanks.

Net Cord
03-05-2007, 07:27 PM
What in the heck did they spend three hours discussing? And Blake's comment about Korolev not needing any luck was pretty shitty. Plus his agent complaining about $$ and ranking points. As the article correctly points out had the traditional knock-out system been in place Blake would've been out R1 and not received any points. And I love how now because he feels he got screwed over by RR he wants it changed. :rolleyes:

1. I think the "luck" comment was referring to whether Korolev would win his next match. As the comment notes, Korolev was about to win when Blake made the comment. I don't think anything ill was meant by the comment.

2. If it was a traditional knock-out system, who knows what would have happened. Would he have played Korolev in the first round? JDP? Someone else and then the winner of that match (JDP) in the 2nd round. It's way too simple to say he would have lost his 1st round match under the knock-out approach.

Net Cord
03-05-2007, 07:27 PM
I find this kind of comment a little funny. If this would have been a regular draw tournament he would have lost in first round...

There's no way of knowing that.

MarieS
03-05-2007, 07:32 PM
It's also laughable that Marat and Lleyton are suddenly heroic in this mess and when we all know they would've done the same thing Blake did. Marat was just protecting a countryman. Would he have the done the same thing if Korolev were not Russian? I seriously doubt it.

Yeah, Hewitt, Johansson and Federer all play for Russia :retard:. Someone had to stand up for the kid, since we can't rely on the people who are supposed to be doing it (ie the VP of the players' council). Besides, Marat and Zhenya are from the same club in Moscow, and Marat was playing with Zhenya's cousin even before Korolev was born.
And please, there's no reason to bring down other players while trying to defend James. Are you seriously claiming Marat (or Hewitt) for that matter would freak out and demand to get the QF spot over Korolev? You tell us not to go with heresay and then offer this BS? How do you know that this is how they'd react? Did you see how Ferrero reacted? :shrug: Your claim that everyone would have reacted like James did just doesn't hold up, sorry.

lau
03-05-2007, 07:39 PM
There's no way of knowing that.

Well, put it this way: Even when he lost his first match (in 2 sets, BTW) he received ranking points and money. He started risking his chances of advancing to the next stage/round the moment he lost his match against Korolev.

maria_marie
03-05-2007, 07:42 PM
I think this misunderstanding proved that the round robin format isn't appropriate for tennis because a single person can influence the results of the others. and I don't think that tennis should come down to counting how many games you have to win/lose in order to qualify for the quarters-it takes away some of the beauty of this sport. I really adore the way Marat handled the situation and I'm sure he didn't do it of pure egoism because he's friends with Zhenia and know he wouldn't object to the unfair decision of atp because he's very young and inexperienced. With all my respect to american players, I cannot approve of the fact that they always seem to be tolerated by authorities. remember at the AO when andy called tsonga 'fucking preak' and he didn't even get an official warning. Then, the tournament officials try to send Blake through against the rules. I really doubt they would have tried something of the kind if a big star like hewitt or henman was in zhenia's place

Net Cord
03-05-2007, 07:43 PM
Well, put it this way: Even when he lost his first match (in 2 sets, BTW) he received ranking points and money. He started risking his chances of advancing to the next stage/round the moment he lost his match against Korolev.

Yeah, but the claim in that article and by several people here is that if TTC Open was played under the traditional knock-out rules, Blake would have been out in the 1st round. Well, yeah, if the traditional knock-out rules had him playing Korolev in the 1st round, he likely would have been out in the 1st round. If he played JDP in the 1st round, he likely would have won. If he played someone else in the 1st round and the winner of Korolev/JDP in the
2nd round, he might have won his 1st round match and probably would have won his 2nd round match (over JDP). Or maybe the draw would have been entirely different. But we'll never know.

lau
03-05-2007, 07:47 PM
Yeah, but the claim in that article and by several people here is that if TTC Open was played under the traditional knock-out rules, Blake would have been out in the 1st round. Well, yeah, if the traditional knock-out rules had him playing Korolev in the 1st round, he likely would have been out in the 1st round. If he played JDP in the 1st round, he likely would have won. If he played someone else in the 1st round and the winner of Korolev/JDP in the
2nd round, he might have won his 1st round match and probably would have won his 2nd round match (over JDP). Or maybe the draw would have been entirely different. But we'll never know.

That was implied, at least in my post

Net Cord
03-05-2007, 07:52 PM
That was implied, at least in my post

Fair enough, but then I'm not really sure about the point of the article or the posts following it. With RR, Blake didn't make the QF. Under the old knock-out rules, he might have lost in the 1st round...or he might have won the tournament again.

Raquel
03-05-2007, 08:25 PM
Whatever James did or didn't do at the time, after the rules were explained, he still thought the "common sense" solution was that he should have went through. That's enough for me to think this guy is not the ideal ATP vice president if he thinks the rules in black and white should be bent to favour certain situations. del Potro retired but James "would have" won. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. The bare fact was the rules state Korolev goes through. He was upset with the decision at the time but when it was agreed Korolev rightly went through, James should have wrapped himself around it and moved on, rather than publicly saying it still would have made more sense if he went through instead.

Chris Seahorse
03-05-2007, 08:36 PM
Wow!!! I have been through all of this thread and the original thread of what happened without having said anything so far. I don't really want to say much now as almost everything has already been before so well. But I do think these thread's have been for the most part, excepting fools like gogogirl etc, MTF's finest hour. The opinions raised, the passion, the desire to reach the truth and the rightful disgust with De Villiers and the whole round robin format expressed by just about everyone has been inspiring.

What I love most about these last few days is that this whole saga has been like a novel thats been played out before our eyes to an glorious happy ending where the good guy Korolev gets to the semis (shame he didn't beat that bastard Melzer - who as i suspected did dump Nastya) and the bad guys all end up with egg on their faces. And the evil plot (RR) gets destroyed in the process as all the other ATP players heroically chip in the help the little guy. Hell....It could almost be a Frank Capra movie.

Hats off to all the posters in this thread who have given De Villiers and Blake the stick they deserve and have argued the case against Robin Round so well. Personally after reading the wonderful article translated by AnnaK 4ever and the original interview translated by Annie (thanks to both) it is clear we have a new hero in Evgueni Korolev. As for James Blake, well as damning as all the material against him has been I think I could still have sympathy for him and understand his behaviour were he not Vice President of the Players Council. The way he has ignored his duties to represent his fellow players for his own ends is shaming in the extreme. He will have lost the respect of alot of tennis fans (myself included - I used to think he was an alright guy) but much worse he will have lost the respect of alot of his tennis playing peers. And at the end of the day he has no one to blame for that but himself.

Here's hope hoping "Mr Korolev Goes to Vegas" arrives at our cinemas sometime next year.

Socket
03-05-2007, 08:40 PM
Here's hope hoping "Mr Korolev Goes to Vegas" arrives at our cinemas sometime next year.

:haha:

Saumon
03-05-2007, 08:45 PM
Do we really? If we're willing to give Blake the benefit of the doubt that he didn't go to de Villiers to bend the rules of the tournament - and I personally am willing - I think we can extend the same benefit of the doubt to Safin and Hewitt that they wouldn't have done the same thing Blake did. If it's wrong to make negative assumptions about a player in a certain situation it's wrong to assume the same thing about other players. Especially since at this point we don't even know for sure what exactly Blake DID. :lol:

Also, insulting Kolya or insinuating that it was only a sense of national solidarity as opposed to a sense of right and wrong that led Marat to action is not only unfair, but it also is a distraction from the topic at hand and has nothing to do with the fact that James called a breach of the tournament rules "common sense" even after the overrule was reversed. James is not an evil man, nor is he at the root of this problem as far as we know, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have handled this far better than he has.

:worship:

I'm francophone, will you do me? :hearts:

MarieS
03-05-2007, 08:48 PM
Do we really? If we're willing to give Blake the benefit of the doubt that he didn't go to de Villiers to bend the rules of the tournament - and I personally am willing - I think we can extend the same benefit of the doubt to Safin and Hewitt that they wouldn't have done the same thing Blake did. If it's wrong to make negative assumptions about a player in a certain situation it's wrong to assume the same thing about other players. Especially since at this point we don't even know for sure what exactly Blake DID. :lol:

Also, insulting Kolya or insinuating that it was only a sense of national solidarity as opposed to a sense of right and wrong that led Marat to action is not only unfair, but it also is a distraction from the topic at hand and has nothing to do with the fact that James called a breach of the tournament rules "common sense" even after the overrule was reversed. James is not an evil man, nor is he at the root of this problem as far as we know, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have handled this far better than he has.

:hearts: :inlove: Marry me? :angel:

MariaV
03-05-2007, 08:57 PM
I'm in the J'torian fanclub too!!!!! :hearts: :inlove:

Tennis Fool
03-05-2007, 08:57 PM
n for the most part, excepting fools like gogogirl etc, MTF's finest hour.
Really? This stupid "controversy" has put another thought that I should retire from this board.

clear we have a new hero in Evgueni Korolev.
Not too hard to determine the Bandwagon Player for March. Nobody cared 2 sh-ts about this guy (or even heard about him, and probably have yet to see him play) and are calling him a hero :rolleyes: (Not that this is you, just in general.)[/quote]

As for James Blake, well as damning as all the material against him has been I think I could still have sympathy for him and understand his behaviour were he not Vice President of the Players Council. The way he has ignored his duties to represent his fellow players for his own ends is shaming in the extreme.
I would have done the same thing. 1)Me first. 2)Other players second. Let me think of one player who would have acted differently...
.
.
.
.
still thinking.

He will have lost the respect of alot of tennis fans (myself included - I used to think he was an alright guy)
Because on MTF you have to have both a hero and a villain. No in-between here!

but much worse he will have lost the respect of alot of his tennis playing peers.
Just like Korolev said. ;)

Here's hope hoping "Mr Korolev Goes to Vegas" arrives at our cinemas sometime next year.
No one will remember this controversy in two months, let alone this time next year.
_

MariaV
03-05-2007, 08:59 PM
I've seen Korolev play on TV. :angel:

Tennis Fool
03-05-2007, 09:02 PM
I've seen Korolev play on TV. :angel:

:hug: Maybe you and those in the Safin forum ;)

MarieS
03-05-2007, 09:03 PM
I would have done the same thing. 1)Me first. 2)Other players second. Let me think of one player who would have acted differently...
.
.
.
.
still thinking.



Ferrero? :shrug:

Margy
03-05-2007, 09:16 PM
Interesting comment from Blake's agent...

Blake's agent, Carlos Fleming, said the reversal was distressing.

"He lost a lot of money and a lot of (ATP ranking) points as well," Fleming said. "I think there's a flaw in the rules and they had an opportunity to fix this problem and they didn't."

But that opportunity was after Ferrero got stung by a retirement the week before...not in the middle of the next event. If they had fixed it after the weakness was exposed in BsAs, then none of this middle of the tournament nonsense would have happened. So the agent is right about the flaw needing to be fixed but wrong to think his player deserves any different treatment than Ferrero received the previous week. For some reason, nobody called deVilliers demanding mid-event rule changes for JCF. Fix it after the tournament is over and then everyone is again playing under the same new rules for the next one.

Net Cord
03-05-2007, 09:20 PM
Interesting comment from Blake's agent...



But that opportunity was after Ferrero got stung by a retirement the week before...not in the middle of the next event. If they had fixed it after the weakness was exposed in BsAs, then none of this middle of the tournament nonsense would have happened. So the agent is right about the flaw needing to be fixed but wrong to think his player deserves any different treatment than Ferrero received the previous week. For some reason, nobody called deVilliers demanding mid-event rule changes for JCF. Fix it after the tournament is over and then everyone is again playing under the same new rules for the next one.

It's a different situation. With JCF, the retirement was before the match. With Blake, it was during the match.

Tennis Fool
03-05-2007, 09:24 PM
Ferrero? :shrug:
Ferrero didn't play a match in which he was leading when his opponent retired. Yeah, it was good of him to play when 99% of players would have tanked the match. Maybe he didn't know the rules either ;)

Chris Seahorse
03-05-2007, 09:26 PM
Interesting comment from Blake's agent...

Blake's agent, Carlos Fleming, said the reversal was distressing.

"He lost a lot of money and a lot of (ATP ranking) points as well," Fleming said. "I think there's a flaw in the rules and they had an opportunity to fix this problem and they didn't."


But that opportunity was after Ferrero got stung by a retirement the week before...not in the middle of the next event. If they had fixed it after the weakness was exposed in BsAs, then none of this middle of the tournament nonsense would have happened. So the agent is right about the flaw needing to be fixed but wrong to think his player deserves any different treatment than Ferrero received the previous week. For some reason, nobody called deVilliers demanding mid-event rule changes for JCF. Fix it after the tournament is over and then everyone is again playing under the same new rules for the next one.

Additionally I think there would equally be a flaw in any rules that advances a guy who lost one match to a player who outplayed him and then won his 2nd match when his opponent was unfit. Heck, under those circumstances, if all I need to do to advance the quarters of an ATP tournament is defeat one unwell player I could get to the quarters of a tournament. Korolev beat Blake and was infact the more deserving player of the place anyway, although it must be said the nature of RR makes all those who don't win both qualify matches less deserving of a quarterfinal place than they would be in a knockout system.

Net Cord
03-05-2007, 09:29 PM
Additionally I think there would equally be a flaw in any rules that advances a guy who lost one match to a player who outplayed him and then won his 2nd match when his opponent was unfit. Heck, under those circumstances, if all I need to do to advance the quarters of an ATP tournament is defeat one unwell player I could get to the quarters of a tournament. Korolev beat Blake and was infact the more deserving player of the place anyway, although it must be said the nature of RR makes all those who don't win both qualify matches less deserving of a quarterfinal place than they would be in a knockout system.

Yeah, but how do you quantify that? Obviously, JDP was not well for the whole match with Blake. But let's say JDP was fine for the whole match, and then at 6-1, 3-1, he fell and sprained his ankle? Should the result be different? That's the problem with RR -- there are too many strange things that could happen.

Chris Seahorse
03-05-2007, 09:44 PM
Yeah, but how do you quantify that? Obviously, JDP was not well for the whole match with Blake. But let's say JDP was fine for the whole match, and then at 6-1, 3-1, he fell and sprained his ankle? Should the result be different? That's the problem with RR -- there are too many strange things that could happen.

Absolutely true. Which is why the whole thing should be dumped rather than tinkered with.

Gulliver
03-05-2007, 09:51 PM
This is Deb's post #162 on the original thread:

ok listening in on James's presser

"common sense solution to a tough situation" - is what James said Mr. Disney said to him.
James says neither he nor JMDP knew the rules didn't know the rules and that JMDP is a good kid, seems like a fair player, and that he would've gone on to finish the match. etc., if he had known the rules.

"this is what happens with experiments, there will be flaws and things that are good, and by the end of this year we figure out the pros and cons and make a more informed decision"

He didn't really say much but you could tell he found that it was a difficult decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smucav
Blake just said on TTC that the decision [to advance him] was a "common sense solution."

the way I heard it, that's what James said that MR DISNEY said to him.

So de Villiers explained to Blake why he was now through to the QF. Can't find any reference to de Villiers explaining to Korolev why he wasn't. His only phone call to him was to apologise after Korolev was reinstated. Had Blake been the one to contact de V earlier and logically entitled to a reply after de Villiers made a decision?

mariana.ml
03-05-2007, 10:17 PM
This is Deb's post #162 on the original thread:


ok listening in on James's presser

"common sense solution to a tough situation" - is what James said Mr. Disney said to him.
James says neither he nor JMDP knew the rules didn't know the rules and that JMDP is a good kid, seems like a fair player, and that he would've gone on to finish the match. etc., if he had known the rules.

"this is what happens with experiments, there will be flaws and things that are good, and by the end of this year we figure out the pros and cons and make a more informed decision"

He didn't really say much but you could tell he found that it was a difficult decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smucav
Blake just said on TTC that the decision [to advance him] was a "common sense solution."

the way I heard it, that's what James said that MR DISNEY said to him.

So de Villiers explained to Blake why he was now through to the QF. Can't find any reference to de Villiers explaining to Korolev why he wasn't. His only phone call to him was to apologise after Korolev was reinstated. Had Blake been the one to contact de V earlier and logically entitled to a reply after de Villiers made a decision?

That's one thing I can't accept. Blake, just like all the other players should know the rules.

Kalliopeia
03-05-2007, 11:14 PM
My point is that the rules are WRONG yet i see little condemnation for that but much for someone who has been so obviously cheated by them

I've seen this kind of comment a lot. As I recall, before de Villiers took it upon himself to put James into the quarterfinals, there was a lot of sympathy for James. No one seems to think the rule is very fair...but it IS the rule and they can't go around changing rules whenever those rules don't give them the result that they want.

By the way, thanks Annie, for that article. Korolev seems to be a class act. Good for him for handling himself so well.

One thing that I found interesting in the article is that the Dubai players met and he says that they contacted de Villiers. I had sort of been under the assumption that they were contacted by the ATP, then met to discuss it. I sort of love the thought of Roger leading the charge against that ruling. Dammit, Roger. Stop doing things that make me like you. Jerk. :lol: This does, however, shed some light on that article that sounded like de Villiers called Roger to apologize for it. That seemed weird before but if Roger was leading a group in Dubai to argue against it, it makes more sense.

Margy
03-05-2007, 11:25 PM
It's a different situation. With JCF, the retirement was before the match. With Blake, it was during the match.

Yes, different as to when the retirement took place...but the same situation as to the net result - both JCF and Blake were eliminated as a result of their opponent's retirement, not as a result of their own play. And that flaw should have been obvious to the powers that be after Buenos Aires. That is if they bother to pay attention to their own tournaments....

Svetlana.
03-06-2007, 12:11 AM
As always - Federer is a real classy gentleman. :)
As always - Safin tries to fight for fairness. :yeah:

And James... hm... very disappointing :scratch:

celia
03-06-2007, 01:28 AM
Mystery solved.

Blake, you're an asshole jerk.

unfortunately, this seems spot on.