Nadal reverts to his old serve [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Nadal reverts to his old serve

FluffyYellowBall
03-04-2007, 11:45 AM
I didnt notice this this during the matches. WHAT IS HE THINKING!!? He wont be successful right away with a new serve. It takes time to be confident in a new service motion, grip or whatever.
I found this article very interestingbesides the serve issue. Its translated by a *MariaLaura*, a member on his site..

http://www.yucatan.com.mx/noticia.asp?cx=10$0410000000$3498462&f=20070302



Nadal goes backwards with his service and faces a tough 2007.

DUBAI.- It was the hit which he worked the most in all the pre-season in Mallorca, but in the moment of truth the spaniard Rafael Nadal decided to recover his old service, to face the one that looks like the most hard year so far in his short carrer.

"I have decided to lower the speed of my service during the matches and to go back to play more to placing, to percentage. I have come doing it whole my life, and I haven't done it so bad either", Nadal said to dpa agency before to abandon Dubai, where he defended the tilt but fell in quarters of final.

Nadal still has 20 years old, but he's facing his seventh complete season as profesional. So far everything was a climb without pause, everything were praises for the player that, of not existing Roger Federe, would be the unquestionable number one of the world.

But a lot of information points that 2007 will be his harder year till now, a full year of pressure: the one that is autoimposed, which there put his compatriots and, especially, the one that threatens from below, with names as the Russian Mikhail Youzhny, who in spite of his 24 years can be placed together with the Britisher Andy Murray (20), the Czech Tomas Berdych (21) and the Serbian Novak Djokovic, "teenager" still at his 19 years.

The rivals know the game of Nadal, already they are not surprised before his powerful hits and his non-negotiable will to fight every point, every ball. Nadal is a notable player, but he has also weak points - technical and physical-, and some of his colleagues believe that there approaches the moment to take advantage of them.

" In the today tennis you need a solid service. The only one, or probably one of the few ones that wins tournaments without a good service is Nadal", said Djokovic after having at the edge of the "nocaut" the almost unbeatable Federer.

The day will arrive in which it loses something of physique

The Cypriot Marcos Baghdatis, who fell down in three sets before Nadal in the first round of Dubai, sees difficulties for the Spanish.

" Nadal is a great player, but he is very good due to the clay. Last year won everything in clay and lost some matches in hard courts and indoor. The way of his tennis is not like Federer, his is more mental. As soon as he begins to lose with some, he is going to go down a bit. It's going to come a day in which he loses something of physique, who become slightly older ", the finalist of Australia said to dpa 2006. -Dnt get what hes saying here:confused:

The number two of the world has big titles on hard courts - Dubai beating Federer in the final, and the Canada Open- and indoor tournaments, as that of Madrid 2005. He disputed even Wimbledon's final.

But the great base of his career, the principal argument to maintain himself as number two is in the weeks that go from the beginning of April until June, when he disputes the big tilts on clay, tourneys as Montecarlo, Rome or Roland Garros, where he is the current champion.

"What would happen if he starts failing, if he was returning to lose in clay, something that does not experiment from April, 2005?

This question circulated, without doubts, also in his environment, which decided to relieve the pressure on Nadal providing him with a service that was allowing him to win points without so much effort and to define with more frequency in the net.

This new strategy worked for him only partly in Dubai, and the best test was that the Spaniard was returning to his former service - less powerful, more placed-, while he expects to take the sufficient confidence in order that during the matches works "the cannon" that do flow in the trainings.

" I remain messed up sometimes, neither I obtain the winning points serving a hundred per cent hard ", Nadal admitted to dpa. " In the trainings I continue trying to hit it more strong. I try to do what I could in the matches, and according to my sensations I serve of a way or of other one ".

Confidence for Indian Wells and Miami

Nadal has in March two big challenges ahead, Indian Wells's Masters Series and Miami.

" It was the moment to pass the barrier of the quarters and to come with a bit more of confidence to The United States. But the good thing is that I am playing again well ", analyzed Nadal.

Then there will come the Davis Cup in The United States and, later, the longed season of clay, in which he counts on putting final point to the question that repeats itself: " When will he return to play a final? ".

It is the first question lately... I am pretty calm, am doing everything what I can in every match, always ", assured Nadal, which does not play a final from July, 2006 in Wimbledon, something that the own Federer defined in Dubai as "surprisingly".

A Federer that continues trusting in Nadal. When he was asked this week for whom he would bet as successor in the number one, he answered without doubting: "Nadal, certainly ".

But though Nadal scarcely is leaving the adolescence, the tennis goes very fast. The Spaniard is an established player, a star with veteran's aura. Different, young as Murray, Berdych and Djokovic, want already to rise to the highest. To support the number two will be increasingly meritorious, but also increasingly difficultly for Nadal.

Sean.J.S.
03-04-2007, 11:58 AM
I'm stunned.

NicoFan
03-04-2007, 12:40 PM
I'm not sure that's such a good idea. :shrug:

Adler
03-04-2007, 12:42 PM
Neither do I

cmurray
03-04-2007, 01:03 PM
Oh dear. That loss really got to him. I'm concerned.

That "placed well" serve might work on clay, but it isn't going to work on hards. RAFA DON'T DO IT!

keqtqiadv
03-04-2007, 01:04 PM
:cool: :p

sawan66278
03-04-2007, 01:32 PM
Huge mistake from Nadal...like I said last year, he needs to take his lumps this year in an effort to improve his game. Heck, even Mr. Sampras took lumps when he went from a two-handed backhand to a one-handed backhand in his junior years. But look at the end result.

I hate to say it: panic is started to set in in Rafa's camp.:sad:

adee-gee
03-04-2007, 01:36 PM
I noticed it as well. I mean, it's not a good idea but it's understandable.

When things aren't going well and you're lacking in confidence, you're bound to do the things you feel most comfortable with. It's the same as his position on the baseline.

yana
03-04-2007, 01:56 PM
Maybe he knows best. ;)

bandabou
03-04-2007, 02:13 PM
hmm....and in the meantime still: Nadal has not reached a F since Wimbledon.

*Viva Chile*
03-04-2007, 02:30 PM
Same happened with Coria and all we knew the "great results" later :unsure:

Allez
03-04-2007, 02:44 PM
Well he has won tournaments on faster surfaces with that serve, so it's understandable.

JustmeUK
03-04-2007, 02:53 PM
so much for the doing things differently to make him a better more complete player. ah well no problems.. he'll soon drop enough in the rankings so that he'll end up aplying Roger in earlier rounds and finally we'll have a h2h that reflects their respective abilities and games.

Horatio Caine
03-04-2007, 02:59 PM
Never change a winning shirt...

jazar
03-04-2007, 03:08 PM
does he know anything about tactics at all?

he needs to hit his serve flatter instead to kicking it in all the time

oz_boz
03-04-2007, 03:17 PM
Well, it's only two more tournaments before the clay season starts and on that surface it won't make any difference.

mickymouse
03-04-2007, 03:19 PM
Although his serve doesn't earn him free points, it's always been effective when he goes for percentage. That's why he did so well at Wimbledon. Remember after that close match with Kendrick, he was unbroken until the finals. Sure he has to grind out every point but at least he's comfortable and confident. The most important thing now for him is to get back on the winning track.

rafagirlno1
03-04-2007, 03:38 PM
Although his serve doesn't earn him free points, it's always been effective when he goes for percentage. That's why he did so well at Wimbledon. Remember after that close match with Kendrick, he was unbroken until the finals. Sure he has to grind out every point but at least he's comfortable and confident. The most important thing now for him is to get back on the winning track.

true at wimbledon he was almost unstobble with such a high first serve %.and almost defeated fed till he chocked in the second set . i think this is the best startegy to use and grind out more points(more physical but defintely more effective) , thts way he has lost more matches last year as compared to 05 .
from now on i think he could start winning more tournaments like in 05 :devil:

Dougie
03-04-2007, 03:38 PM
Not a good idea. This could mix up his game even more than it is already. It´s understandable he wants to go back to the style he feels most comfortable with, but that won´t develop his game.

oz_boz
03-04-2007, 03:46 PM
Although his serve doesn't earn him free points, it's always been effective when he goes for percentage. That's why he did so well at Wimbledon. Remember after that close match with Kendrick, he was unbroken until the finals. Sure he has to grind out every point but at least he's comfortable and confident. The most important thing now for him is to get back on the winning track.

:yeah: My impression too, he has never had a killer serve but his 70% makes him playning very few attackable serves and he wins most rallies that follow. New or old serve is not the key for Nadal.

rafagirlno1
03-04-2007, 03:48 PM
:yeah: My impression too, he has never had a killer serve but his 70% makes him playning very few attackable serves and he wins most rallies that follow. New or old serve is not the key for Nadal.



This is definitely the first time I have heard someone saying that losing a set 0-6 is the same as being almost unstoppable. :lol:

oh common , u know wht i am talking about . the second set was completely for rafa to win when he was leading and chocked while serving for the set . if he had won the set , who knows wht would hve happend ;)

NYCtennisfan
03-04-2007, 04:31 PM
The problem here is that if he does revert back to the old serve, he doesn't have the same confidence in his FH as he did back when he was winning. When he was winning, his 1st FH after the return took control of the rally--it doesn't anymore. Federer's returning strategy was based around not facing that first FH and he even said as much. Nadal's 1st FH these days doesn't take control of rallies. He makes more errors and hits with less depth.

As for Nadal's serve, its effectiveness has gone down because players were expecting the slice out wide on the AD court and the spinning-away down the T serve on the deuce court. They were cheating over considerably to their BH's (for right-handed players) to take this serve. Nadal's camp rightly decided to add the dimension of flattening out the serve and go up the T on the AD court and out wide on the deuce court to take advantage of the opponents cheating over to their BH sides. If he stays the course with his new serve, it will pay dividends sooner or later. Then again, if he can regain confidence in his FH, then the old serve might work as well. Problem is that a lot of players have a lot of confidence going into matches with him now.

almouchie
03-04-2007, 04:42 PM
he needs to make a few changes, adjustment to his game
to reap long term success
he maynot have as good a time as he expects this year
but he needs to do some changes
to challenge on other surfaces & use less energy in his matches
sort of conserve his body, its important if he wants to have a long career as well

Burrow
03-04-2007, 05:24 PM
His serve is hardly anything specal anyway, his serve will never be a weapon. People are saying its turning into a weapon which I find quite funny. Showcase it along with the best serves in the game, karlovic, ljubicic, roddick, querrey, fish...It really is nothing.

Allure
03-04-2007, 05:47 PM
His serve is hardly anything specal anyway, his serve will never be a weapon. People are saying its turning into a weapon which I find quite funny. Showcase it along with the best serves in the game, karlovic, ljubicic, roddick, querrey, fish...It really is nothing.

LMAO:haha:

Need to say it so bluntly;)

DrJules
03-04-2007, 05:58 PM
Nadal should focus on where he serves and use the fact that he is left handed. Historically, right handers have had trouble with left handers slice serves.

Apemant
03-04-2007, 06:09 PM
true at wimbledon he was almost unstobble with such a high first serve %.and almost defeated fed till he chocked in the second set . i think this is the best startegy to use and grind out more points(more physical but defintely more effective) , thts way he has lost more matches last year as compared to 05 .
from now on i think he could start winning more tournaments like in 05 :devil:

You really need to stop posting nonsense like the bolded part, if you have any ambition of people taking you seriously.

EDIT: it could be too late already, though. :devil:

Johnny Groove
03-04-2007, 06:18 PM
we'll see what he does in IW and Miami :shrug:

Jlee
03-04-2007, 06:21 PM
The only way this could help him is if it makes him more comfortable and he's able to gain back some confidence. I don't really see it working in the long run though. I think he's just desperate to find something that will work for him again :shrug:

It shouldn't be a problem on clay though.

cmurray
03-04-2007, 06:23 PM
we'll see what he does in IW and Miami :shrug:

sigh. Indeed. He wins one of those tournaments, and we might see a different Rafa. If he only makes it to the quarters again, his confidence is going to be greatly diminished.

Johnny Groove
03-04-2007, 06:28 PM
sigh. Indeed. He wins one of those tournaments, and we might see a different Rafa. If he only makes it to the quarters again, his confidence is going to be greatly diminished.

true

Bobby
03-04-2007, 07:05 PM
That's not a good thing to do. Rafa needs to understand that things like this take time. Many golf professionals spend an entire season playing badly when they adjust their swings. It's a difficult path to walk, but it's the right thing to do if you want to improve your game. What kind of a coach is Tony if he lets Rafa do this? His job is to see the big picture here!

yana
03-04-2007, 07:27 PM
to me, this is a good thing. I didn't believe that he could change his type of game, so it's better that he stays with the one that suits him better. he's a clay court specialist, he's not gonna turn into a HC big hitter not even in a milion years. and I think he knows better than us what he is doing.

prima donna
03-04-2007, 07:31 PM
We shall see how this decision works out, after being actualized.

scoobs
03-04-2007, 10:22 PM
This to me suggests that they don't know what to do for the best to turn around the loss in confidence and results right now. There seems to be confusion about the approach they need to be taking and that is worrying.

It's a bit of a conundrum - if he plays the way he has then he'll undoubtedly have success....and struggle with injuries - he'll probably find himself unable to sustain the level required in a few years' time. Yet there seems to be no confidence in the strategy of changing his game to make it more offensive.

I do think the loss in Dubai has shaken him a bit more - the reaction after the match suggested he was upset and this suggestion of a retreat confirms it - I really don't think he was expected to be tagged by Youzhny after scrapping past Baghdatis and Andreev.

Sunset of Age
03-04-2007, 10:32 PM
^^ Fully agree.

Would like to add the following: the clay season is coming up and Rafa will be under huge pressure to keep up with the expectations set on him there, as he's supposed to still be the unbeatable King of Clay like he was in 2006.

He managed to achieve that massive success with his 'old' serve, and it's very well possible that his (and his team's?) current lack of confidence have convinced him that returning back to the old serve will give him better chances of meeting the expectations during the Clay Season.

As for me I don't know whether this is a wise decision - to me it looks like Rafa and his team don't expect him to be able to repeat his old success with the 'new approach' - yet. Very understandable, but if it's actually a wise decision will yet remain unknown.

We'll have to wait and see what happens during the Clay Season, which I gather will be pretty decisive for Rafa...

GlennMirnyi
03-04-2007, 10:35 PM
As if he could change his serving motion... he's not 14-15 anymore. :lol:

CmonAussie
03-04-2007, 10:53 PM
Definitely time to get a new coach ~ someone Nadal would respect & trust>>> how about Wilander??

sondraj06
03-04-2007, 10:55 PM
During the press conference after the youzney match he said that if he knew what he was doing wrong he would change it. It's disheartening that he still doesn't know what he's doing wrong. Not encouraging at all Nadal.

GlennMirnyi
03-04-2007, 10:59 PM
During the press conference after the youzney match he said that if he knew what he was doing wrong he would change it. It's disheartening that he still doesn't know what he's doing wrong. Not encouraging at all Nadal.

He can't change it. That would take learning how to play tennis properly, and you can't do that so late in your life.

nobama
03-05-2007, 12:07 AM
During the press conference after the youzney match he said that if he knew what he was doing wrong he would change it. It's disheartening that he still doesn't know what he's doing wrong. Not encouraging at all Nadal.Why in the world would you announce that to the world? I think that's the last thing Nadal should do. Who now wouldn't think they have a shot against him (outside of clay of course)?

mangoes
03-05-2007, 12:34 AM
Personally, I think the time has come for Uncle Toni to realize he has taken Nadal as far as he is going to take him, and it is time for a new coach. I don't see Nadal facing a tough time on the clay this upcoming season. Just take a look at the South American swing.......Nadal should defend his clay points quite easily except when running into Roger.

I don't want to see Nadal do a dive in the rankings. It's understandable that this is a fustrating time for him. My suggestion to him, time for a new coach that can take his game to another level........after RG:lol: :lol: :lol:

cmurray
03-05-2007, 12:51 AM
Personally, I think the time has come for Uncle Toni to realize he has taken Nadal as far as he is going to take him, and it is time for a new coach. I don't see Nadal facing a tough time on the clay this upcoming season. Just take a look at the South American swing.......Nadal should defend his clay points quite easily except when running into Roger.

I don't want to see Nadal do a dive in the rankings. It's understandable that this is a fustrating time for him. My suggestion to him, time for a new coach that can take his game to another level........after RG:lol: :lol: :lol:


We've been saying this on the Rafa board for months. Uncle Toni is just not helping any more.

The problem is that Rafa is still VERY firmly attached to those proverbial apron strings. In a lot of ways, he's still a boy. I cannot imagine him willingly giving up his closest and most comfortable tie to home. I wish he would, actually. As much as I admire what Toni has done with him, up until this point, its obvious that Rafa needs something else.

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 12:55 AM
Yeah, a simple coach change will turn Nadal into an attacking player. :lol:

cmurray
03-05-2007, 01:00 AM
Yeah, a simple coach change will turn Nadal into an attacking player. :lol:

I don't recall anyone saying that a coach change was going to turn Rafa into an attacking player. Stop being nasty why don't you?

A new coach didn't turn Andy Murray into a different player, but it DID take his talent and make the most of it.

Byrd
03-05-2007, 01:01 AM
I personally think they reverted back to the old serve because the clay seasons coming up. Its been 'effective' in his gameplan in the last 2 years on the dirt, and with his new serve and his loss of matches he might be thinking it could harm his success on the clay as he isn't getting any success with it and its harming the rest of his game, as well as taking into consideration that it could be a confidence booster as well.

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 01:03 AM
I don't recall anyone saying that a coach change was going to turn Rafa into an attacking player. Stop being nasty why don't you?

A new coach didn't turn Andy Murray into a different player, but it DID take his talent and make the most of it.

Talent? :lol:

The only thing Gilbert might have done is give a better mental side to Murray, period.

Well, if people are complaining that Nadal plays 5 meters behind the baseline, a change of coach isn't going to help it. He doesn't take the ball early, especially from his forehand, he can't play inside the court.

MilMilCho
03-05-2007, 01:39 AM
His serve has never been a weapon, even he changed it once,
I dont see how big it actually is. I guess even he knows that.
He made this decision 'cause he knows he has to defend those Clay court titles.
Right now those low percetage first serves arent gonna help him on clay again.
He has to revert to his old serve before its too late.
I dont think, in his mind, its okay for him to lose more HC matches,
but it will be more devastating to him if he loses on clay, his best surface.
Thats why he made this decision. Cannot say its not a good one,
'cause its too late to turn himself into somewhat a good server.

fmolinari2005
03-05-2007, 01:40 AM
Definitely time to get a new coach ~ someone Nadal would respect & trust>>> how about Wilander??

That would be a classy duo!!! One scratching his ass and the other pointing to his crotches!!! The big balls and the big ass merging to create one big mess ...

About the current "slump" ... not true at all. What is happening is just a reality check. Nadal, for a clay courter, did great on the fast court tournaments. He actually improved his record at the USO. Still, I think that he, his camp and the media believed he was better than Fed ... It seems that Nadal is suffering from the same disease that afflicted Roddick: Federeritis ... Rafa got obsessed with being number one, and in the process made a lot of number twos ... LOL

Still, I think that Nadal is one of the fav for all hardcourt tournaments- but his chances are highly "draw-dependent". And, more important than a serve, Nadal should take care of his body ... after all, it must be a pain in the ass when your famous ass hurts ... and people might start thinking you are an ass if you keep saying that your ass hurts after having your ass kicked ...

Johnny Groove
03-05-2007, 01:45 AM
That would be a classy duo!!! One scratching his ass and the other pointing to his crotches!!! The big balls and the big ass merging to create one big mess ...

About the current "slump" ... not true at all. What is happening is just a reality check. Nadal, for a clay courter, did great on the fast court tournaments. He actually improved his record at the USO. Still, I think that he, his camp and the media believed he was better than Fed ... It seems that Nadal is suffering from the same disease that afflicted Roddick: Federeritis ... Rafa got obsessed with being number one, and in the process made a lot of number twos ... LOL

Still, I think that Nadal is one of the fav for all hardcourt tournaments- but his chances are highly "draw-dependent". And, more important than a serve, Nadal should take care of his body ... after all, it must be a pain in the ass when your famous ass hurts ... and people might start thinking you are an ass if you keep saying that your ass hurts after having your ass kicked ...

good post describing in great detail, and without any doubt left in anyone's mind, just how much of a moron you are.

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 01:47 AM
That would be a classy duo!!! One scratching his ass and the other pointing to his crotches!!! The big balls and the big ass merging to create one big mess ...

About the current "slump" ... not true at all. What is happening is just a reality check. Nadal, for a clay courter, did great on the fast court tournaments. He actually improved his record at the USO. Still, I think that he, his camp and the media believed he was better than Fed ... It seems that Nadal is suffering from the same disease that afflicted Roddick: Federeritis ... Rafa got obsessed with being number one, and in the process made a lot of number twos ... LOL

Still, I think that Nadal is one of the fav for all hardcourt tournaments- but his chances are highly "draw-dependent". And, more important than a serve, Nadal should take care of his body ... after all, it must be a pain in the ass when your famous ass hurts ... and people might start thinking you are an ass if you keep saying that your ass hurts after having your ass kicked ...

Some good things there. Very nice. Especially the end. :yeah:

amierin
03-05-2007, 01:53 AM
good post describing in great detail, and without any doubt left in anyone's mind, just how much of a moron you are.

Blaze, :worship:

Rafa has had horrific draws, Dubai being the worst in my opinion. All of the guys who can play were in his part of the draw while Federer had it easy. Sure Djokovic was in the top half of the draw but knowing how Fed feels about him did anyone really think Novak had a chance?

The argument has been that Rafa has to beat these guys. The argument should be why aren't the players distributed evenly between the top and bottom of the draw?

The clay court season is coming but there's IW and Miami in between. I think what Rafa is doing is going back to what got him where he is, and I think that this is a good thing.

cmurray
03-05-2007, 01:59 AM
The clay court season is coming but there's IW and Miami in between. I think what Rafa is doing is going back to what got him where he is, and I think that this is a good thing.


It might very well be. And if this is what it takes for Rafa to feel comfortable with his tennis again, I'm all for it. Nobody can deny that a large part of Rafa's ability to win matches is inextricably tied to his self-confidence. And when it boils down to it, his confidence is MUCH more important than a faster serve. We'll see where it takes him, I guess.

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 01:59 AM
Blaze, :worship:

Rafa has had horrific draws, Dubai being the worst in my opinion. All of the guys who can play were in his part of the draw while Federer had it easy. Sure Djokovic was in the top half of the draw but knowing how Fed feels about him did anyone really think Novak had a chance?

The argument has been that Rafa has to beat these guys. The argument should be why aren't the players distributed evenly between the top and bottom of the draw?

The clay court season is coming but there's IW and Miami in between. I think what Rafa is doing is going back to what got him where he is, and I think that this is a good thing.

Yeah, according to your wishes, Federer would get an easier draw in Wimbledon, like that cakewalk Nadal had. :silly:

fmolinari2005
03-05-2007, 02:08 AM
good post describing in great detail, and without any doubt left in anyone's mind, just how much of a moron you are.

You are right! I must be a moron indeed! Because jokes aside, I actually said that Nadal is a favourite in the hardcourt tournaments, and that I dont believe in the idea that Nadal´s career is over ... LOL

doublebackhand
03-05-2007, 02:13 AM
Rafa has had horrific draws, Dubai being the worst in my opinion. All of the guys who can play were in his part of the draw while Federer had it easy. Sure Djokovic was in the top half of the draw but knowing how Fed feels about him did anyone really think Novak had a chance?

The argument has been that Rafa has to beat these guys. The argument should be why aren't the players distributed evenly between the top and bottom of the draw?



another crappy excuse that rafa fans use a lot for his losses! oh, roger always has easy draws and rafa has tough ones. i know its pure speculation but i really cant see any difference if their draws were swapped.

nadal needs a better serve and more aggressive play and he can still change it. he is only getting older and he cant be grinding out every single point in all his future matches, be it on clay or not. otherwise, his whole body will fall apart before 25.

fmolinari2005
03-05-2007, 02:21 AM
another crappy excuse that rafa fans use a lot for his losses! oh, roger always has easy draws and rafa has tough ones. i know its pure speculation but i really cant see any difference if their draws were swapped.

nadal needs a better serve and more aggressive play and he can still change it. he is only getting older and he cant be grinding out every single point in all his future matches, be it on clay or not. otherwise, his whole body will fall apart before 25.

What was the last tournament Rafa didnt complain about being "not hundred percent" physically?! There you have it ...

sondraj06
03-05-2007, 02:35 AM
another crappy excuse that rafa fans use a lot for his losses! oh, roger always has easy draws and rafa has tough ones. i know its pure speculation but i really cant see any difference if their draws were swapped.

nadal needs a better serve and more aggressive play and he can still change it. he is only getting older and he cant be grinding out every single point in all his future matches, be it on clay or not. otherwise, his whole body will fall apart before 25.


Maybe I haven't been on this board long enough, But out of the rafa dedicated threads so far after his lose, I haven't heard to many people make excuses for his lost. How funny, one person mention his tough draws and suddenly all rafa fans are making excuses that seems to all tell the same story. If someone thinks that a player has a tough draw, I'm sure it's not illegal to say so.

And Rafa just like every other player on the tour should be able to beat anyone to get to the finals. I want Rafa to play the players that have given him a hard time, including Blake. I want him to figure it out, I would thoroughly enjoy that.

swissfed
03-05-2007, 02:37 AM
Mistake, A big Mistake

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 02:37 AM
Maybe I haven't been on this board long enough, But out of the rafa dedicated threads so far after his lose, I haven't heard to many people make excuses for his lost. How funny, one person mention his tough draws and suddenly all rafa fans are making excuses that seems to all tell the same story. If someone thinks that a player has a tough draw, I'm sure it's not illegal to say so.

And Rafa just like every other player on the tour should be able to beat anyone to get to the finals. I want Rafa to play the players that have given him a hard time, including Blake. I want him to figure it out, I would thoroughly enjoy that.

Rafatards have excuses for ALL his losses. Just look at the threads. Most say that he's injured, as if that was something beyond his responsability.

fmolinari2005
03-05-2007, 02:45 AM
Rafatards have excuses for ALL his losses. Just look at the threads. Most say that he's injured, as if that was something beyond his responsability.

I think you are being unfair to Rafa! Poor kid!!! First they had this "time limit between points" rule. Then he discovers that coaching isnt allowed, which is stupid, no?! But the final stroke came when they came up with another unfair rule: the challenge system!!! That hawkeye is a bad person, no?!

I mean. The universe is conspiring against him! Next thing he knows and the ATP will allow tall, hard hitting Czech players to joing the ATP tour ... We all know that there is a rule against bad persons, right?!

sondraj06
03-05-2007, 02:47 AM
Rafatards have excuses for ALL his losses. Just look at the threads. Most say that he's injured, as if that was something beyond his responsability.

injured for what match, not in Dubai. The other times he's been injured, he's been injured. Stop with the conspiracy theory's. They don't allow a player to pull out of tournys unless they get checked out by a physician. So unless he has that kind of pull to get physicians to write off on a injury that wasn't, I don't get it. This is a tennis forum right, so I would figure when people are discussing a player or a match they would want to know if one player was injured or not.

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 02:48 AM
I think you are being unfair to Rafa! Poor kid!!! First they had this "time limit between points" rule. Then he discovers that coaching isnt allowed, which is stupid, no?! But the final stroke came when they came up with another unfair rule: the challenge system!!! That hawkeye is a bad person, no?!

I mean. The universe is conspiring against him! Next thing he knows and the ATP will allow tall, hard hitting Czech players to joing the ATP tour ... We all know that there is a rule against bad persons, right?!

:haha: :haha: :haha:

I'd say that the Hawkeye is a very stupid rule. I mean, if there's a mark, it's the real deal, it works on all surfaces. :lol:

sondraj06
03-05-2007, 02:48 AM
I think you are being unfair to Rafa! Poor kid!!! First they had this "time limit between points" rule. Then he discovers that coaching isnt allowed, which is stupid, no?! But the final stroke came when they came up with another unfair rule: the challenge system!!! That hawkeye is a bad person, no?!

I mean. The universe is conspiring against him! Next thing he knows and the ATP will allow tall, hard hitting Czech players to joing the ATP tour ... We all know that there is a rule against bad persons, right?!

Like I said in another board, it's not the fans that come up with excuses. It's people outside the rafa corner. You all are better at it than any fan could ever be :worship:

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 02:51 AM
injured for what match, not in Dubai. The other times he's been injured, he's been injured. Stop with the conspiracy theory's. They don't allow a player to pull out of tournys unless they get checked out by a physician. So unless he has that kind of pull to get physicians to write off on a injury that wasn't, I don't get it. This is a tennis forum right, so I would figure when people are discussing a player or a match they would want to know if one player was injured or not.

It's simple: if you're really injured, you don't play. If you step on court, you go to the end, unless it's something you can visualise (a skid, for instance).

sondraj06
03-05-2007, 02:53 AM
It's simple: if you're really injured, you don't play. If you step on court, you go to the end, unless it's something you can visualise (a skid, for instance).

Yeah and I agree, but he didn't retire or anything in Dubai and the only retirement I can remember is before the AO. What are we talking about here

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 02:54 AM
Yeah and I agree, but he didn't retire or anything in Dubai and the only retirement I can remember is before the AO. What are we talking about here

Nadal is a sore loser. He always has an excuse for his losses. He's always injured. In Dubai his excuse was THE HAWKEYE SYSTEM. :lol:

sondraj06
03-05-2007, 02:56 AM
Nadal is a sore loser. He always has an excuse for his losses. He's always injured. In Dubai his excuse was THE HAWKEYE SYSTEM. :lol:

He's only injuried when he's injured, So I don't agree. But yea he was a little salty about his lose in Dubai. Like i've said before, one bad call doesn't lose a match and he knows that.

fmolinari2005
03-05-2007, 02:58 AM
It's simple: if you're really injured, you don't play. If you step on court, you go to the end, unless it's something you can visualise (a skid, for instance).


Does a "Banana-injury" counts?!

nobama
03-05-2007, 03:00 AM
Blaze, :worship:

Rafa has had horrific draws, Dubai being the worst in my opinion. All of the guys who can play were in his part of the draw while Federer had it easy. Sure Djokovic was in the top half of the draw but knowing how Fed feels about him did anyone really think Novak had a chance?

The argument has been that Rafa has to beat these guys. The argument should be why aren't the players distributed evenly between the top and bottom of the draw?

The clay court season is coming but there's IW and Miami in between. I think what Rafa is doing is going back to what got him where he is, and I think that this is a good thing.
:haha: Do you really believe what you just wrote? How in the world was the Dubai draw unfair? Just because Nadal couldn't beat Youzhny doesn't mean the draw was unfair. :rolleyes:

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 03:04 AM
Does a "Banana-injury" counts?!

Of course. And bee stings in an indoor tournament too.

:haha: Do you really believe what you just wrote? How in the world was the Dubai draw unfair? Just because Nadal couldn't beat Youzhny doesn't mean the draw was unfair. :rolleyes:

I bet the Wimbledon draw was fair. :lol:

Pfloyd
03-05-2007, 03:10 AM
Seriously, Gustavo, if you hate Nadal SO much, which quite clearly you do, why do you keep commentating on him and his game?

For one thing, you won't change his fan's admiration for him, and for another, you won't make other Rafa-haters more aware that you despise Nadal.

At first I though you just criticised Rafael because you didn't like, or better yet, didn't understand Rafael game. Now, it seems to me, you simply like attracting attention and pissing people off with tautological and sometimes childish arguments.

So, seriously, why do you talk so much about Nadal?

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 03:13 AM
Seriously, Gustavo, if you hate Nadal SO much, which quite clearly you do, why do you keep commentating on him and his game?

For one thing, you won't change his fan's admiration for him, and for another, you won't make other Rafa-haters more aware that you despise Nadal.

At first I though you just criticised Rafael because you didn't like, or better yet, didn't understand Rafael game. Now, it seems to me, you simply like attracting attention and pissing people off with tautological and sometimes childish arguments.

So, seriously, why do you talk so much about Nadal?

Pissing off the Rafatards is funny enough.

Now what about commenting on his game. Next thing the tards will say he plays inside the court and serves well. :lol:

Pfloyd
03-05-2007, 03:14 AM
Ok

fmolinari2005
03-05-2007, 03:15 AM
:haha: Do you really believe what you just wrote? How in the world was the Dubai draw unfair? Just because Nadal couldn't beat Youzhny doesn't mean the draw was unfair. :rolleyes:

I have to disagree. It is a known fact that Roger won the title without playing Youzhny. Actually, Federer only played against Pless and Bracialli ...

mangoes
03-05-2007, 03:27 AM
We've been saying this on the Rafa board for months. Uncle Toni is just not helping any more.

The problem is that Rafa is still VERY firmly attached to those proverbial apron strings. In a lot of ways, he's still a boy. I cannot imagine him willingly giving up his closest and most comfortable tie to home. I wish he would, actually. As much as I admire what Toni has done with him, up until this point, its obvious that Rafa needs something else.

I think it would have to be Uncle Toni to realize that Nadal needs the assistance of another coach. I don't think it's about Nadal being a boy, it's about family loyality and love that prevents him from considering the notion. Hence the reason that I think Uncle Toni will have to be the one to realize he needs to step aside.

:lol: :lol: :lol:Why do Nadal fans refer to him as a "boy"?? Nadal is a man. A "young" man, but a man. I wonder if it's some fantasy Nadal fans have.........I once read, on another board, a Nadal fan who was saying that Nadal was a sweet boy who was still a virgin :haha: :haha: :haha:

Yeah, a simple coach change will turn Nadal into an attacking player. :lol:

I said to take Nadal's game to the next level :ras: Nothing more........ And he can worry about that after Roger wins RG :lol:


I have to disagree. It is a known fact that Roger won the title without playing Youzhny. Actually, Federer only played against Pless and Bracialli ...

:scratch: Are you serious??..........or joking??

megadeth
03-05-2007, 03:31 AM
I have to disagree. It is a known fact that Roger won the title without playing Youzhny. Actually, Federer only played against Pless and Bracialli ...

so who was fed playing in the final then? :p a misha clone? :p

fmolinari2005
03-05-2007, 03:48 AM
so who was fed playing in the final then? :p a misha clone? :p

No. Like the moonlanding, all Fed victories were filmed in a hollywood set ... The truth is out there!

aulus
03-05-2007, 03:50 AM
No. Like the moonlanding, all Fed victories were filmed in a hollywood set ... The truth is out there!

:haha:

Federer&Hingis
03-05-2007, 03:59 AM
Foolish tactic.

Metis
03-05-2007, 04:01 AM
Clearly Rafa wants to make sure he wins his 3rd RG title to piss off Roger even more. :devil:

:rolls:

sawan66278
03-05-2007, 04:19 AM
While I understand Rafa's concern about his serve (going for bigger first serves DID NOT help the likes of Chang and Hewitt), he needs to add variety and pace to it (at least on hard courts and clay). On clay and surprisingly grass, his serve from 2005-2006 is quite effective. He needs, however, to go for the bomb every once in a while. To abandon the bigger serve would be foolhardy...and would ultimately lead to either continuing losses to players like Misha and Berdych who are on their games or too much wear and tear on his body.

Agassi could get away with going for position on serve because of his flat groundies and return of serve. Agassi could attack from ANYWHERE once the point started...Rafa cannot.

I disagree with those who say Rafa CANNOT become more attacking in his play. This is where a coach (like Mats whom some have mentioned or Johnny Mac) could help. Rafa has the potential to be an excellent volleyer, and has superb feel at the net.

Look at Jimmy Connors towards the end of his career. He was what you could call an "opportunistic volleyer". He came into the net on strategic advances, and was successful even though he had a two handed backhand volley. Interestingly enough, he was a lefty as well.

For those who say it cannot be done (Rafa becoming more aggressive and attacking on well-placed approaches) are ignorant of precedent established by one of the legends of the game.

rafagirlno1
03-05-2007, 04:20 AM
Clearly Rafa wants to make sure he wins his 3rd RG title to piss off Roger even more. :devil:

:rolls:

yaah metis , 100% agree with u . i am sure 90% of fed fans hve already started pissing in their pants thinking of this frightening prospect .
once the serve percentage is up on clay my boy would be unstoopable and thts something fed fans cannot stand but hev to deal with it :devil:
i am sure once clay season starts it would be business as usual for rafa , and i am already feeling so sorry for fed and his fans :sad:

rafagirlno1
03-05-2007, 04:33 AM
I think it would have to be Uncle Toni to realize that Nadal needs the assistance of another coach. I don't think it's about Nadal being a boy, it's about family loyality and love that prevents him from considering the notion. Hence the reason that I think Uncle Toni will have to be the one to realize he needs to step aside.

:lol: :lol: :lol:Why do Nadal fans refer to him as a "boy"?? Nadal is a man. A "young" man, but a man. I wonder if it's some fantasy Nadal fans have.........I once read, on another board, a Nadal fan who was saying that Nadal was a sweet boy who was still a virgin :haha: :haha: :haha:



I said to take Nadal's game to the next level :ras: Nothing more........ And he can worry about that after Roger wins RG :lol:




:scratch: Are you serious??..........or joking??

how old is rafa ??? 20 ,thts still a boy in my eyes . thank u :angel:

mangoes
03-05-2007, 04:49 AM
how old is rafa ??? 20 ,thts still a boy in my eyes . thank u :angel:

Well, it's time to remove the cucumber slices from your eyes. He is a young man of 20.

MariaV
03-05-2007, 07:26 AM
That would be a classy duo!!! One scratching his ass and the other pointing to his crotches!!! The big balls and the big ass merging to create one big mess ...

About the current "slump" ... not true at all. What is happening is just a reality check. Nadal, for a clay courter, did great on the fast court tournaments. He actually improved his record at the USO. Still, I think that he, his camp and the media believed he was better than Fed ... It seems that Nadal is suffering from the same disease that afflicted Roddick: Federeritis ... Rafa got obsessed with being number one, and in the process made a lot of number twos ... LOL

Still, I think that Nadal is one of the fav for all hardcourt tournaments- but his chances are highly "draw-dependent". And, more important than a serve, Nadal should take care of his body ... after all, it must be a pain in the ass when your famous ass hurts ... and people might start thinking you are an ass if you keep saying that your ass hurts after having your ass kicked ...

This is just too good!!!! :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :worship: :bowdown:

bokehlicious
03-05-2007, 07:55 AM
Clearly Rafa wants to make sure he wins his 3rd RG title to piss off Roger even more. :devil:

:rolls:

Nadal needs RG to "save" his whole season... On the other hand RG would only be some bonus to Roger... :)

bokehlicious
03-05-2007, 07:56 AM
yaah metis , 100% agree with u . i am sure 90% of fed fans hve already started pissing in their pants thinking of this frightening prospect .
once the serve percentage is up on clay my boy would be unstoopable and thts something fed fans cannot stand but hev to deal with it :devil:
i am sure once clay season starts it would be business as usual for rafa , and i am already feeling so sorry for fed and his fans :sad:

If your predictions are as accurate as the one you stated for Dubai, then I'm quite fine... :angel: :lol:

oz_boz
03-05-2007, 08:03 AM
All of the guys who can play were in his part of the draw while Federer had it easy. Sure Djokovic was in the top half of the draw but knowing how Fed feels about him did anyone really think Novak had a chance?

Yeah right.

Sure Nadal's first match was really tough, and he had a potential match against Berdman in QF, but Federer's half was no way easier. Fed would have loved drawing Berdych (who hasn't given him trouble after Athens) and Youzhny (against whom he was 8-0, 9-0 now), instead he got Haas who can challenge him, Davydenko who was the only top 10 that could pose some minor problems for Fed, and Djoko who hasn't give Fed trouble but still is infinitely more likely to do so than say Robredo or Ferrer, both on Nadal's half.

Is it so hard to get that Nadal's draw being tough does not in any way imply that Fed's draw is easy? In fact almost the opposite is true, Blake, Berdych, Gonzalez and Youzhny all have abysmal records against Roger.

Castafiore
03-05-2007, 08:24 AM
I don't know why some of you are so fascinated with these endless draw conversations.

Sure, Rafa had a tough draw. When talking about tough draws, he had didn't have an easy one in Dubai but it's all about matchups. Baghdatis is not an easy first round but Rafa found a way to win that match but he wasn't able to do that against Youzhny for the simple reason that Youzhny was the better player in that match.
Berdych is a very bad match-up and Youzhny can give him quite a bit of trouble as well. But if he had been on the other side, I'm sure that Djokovic would have been a tough opponent for Rafa as well for example and Haas is playing with confidence these days (just to name these two).
A tough draw is no excuse. A player needs to find a way to win, regardless of the draw. Berdych or Youzhny on his side of the draw would not been more difficult for Federer than Haas or Djokovic in his half.
Every player faces good and bad draws in his career.


Furthermore, I don't think that Rafa should sack Toni or that Toni should remove himself as a coach since I still think that he's a good influence. However, I would LOVE to see them hire a good assistant coach and I'm not talking about Roig (who will be there in IW, right?).



And yeah, looking on other forums and mocking an entire fangroup based on the more stupid quotes you can come up with makes you sound very smart. Keep it up! :yeah:

oz_boz
03-05-2007, 09:04 AM
Apart from the first sentence, I hope you weren't replying to me, Castafiore?

You can call me overly fascinated with draws, I think my reply to amierin was more of a case of being allergic to stupid statements in general.

But I know, I shouldn't bother.

Castafiore
03-05-2007, 09:16 AM
No, I wasn't replying to you in specific but most of it was just a general reply.

A certain group of posters seem to be fascinated by draw conversations either way Hey, I'm not stopping them of course but I find it a bit odd how some of these debates go compared with previous ones. That's all.
A draw is what it is and every player has challenges in his career so it's up to each player to make the most of it.

Apemant
03-05-2007, 09:21 AM
yaah metis , 100% agree with u . i am sure 90% of fed fans hve already started pissing in their pants thinking of this frightening prospect.

Not yet, really... maybe after Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Rome if Rafa wins them all again.

One question though... will Rafa win RG without dropping a set? :devil:

You proved to be quite a jinx in Dubai, let's see how you perform here... ;)

Castafiore
03-05-2007, 09:24 AM
I still think that rafasgirlno1 is not really a Rafa fan at all but merely a troll and probably the same one that haunted TW for a while (or perhaps she still is...haven't checked out TW for a while).

bokehlicious
03-05-2007, 09:28 AM
I still think that rafasgirlno1 is not really a Rafa fan at all but merely a troll and probably the same one that haunted TW for a while (or perhaps she still is...haven't checked out TW for a while).

Unfortunately for Rafa, most of his so-called "fans" are clueless tards, rafasgirltool is no exception :angel: :p

Apemant
03-05-2007, 09:38 AM
I still think that rafasgirlno1 is not really a Rafa fan at all but merely a troll and probably the same one that haunted TW for a while (or perhaps she still is...haven't checked out TW for a while).

Hey.. I've thought that too ;)

Either a troll or a clueless little girl. Too bad you can't really know the truth in an anonymous forum. I wouldn't be harsh towards kids, but imposters piss me off big time. A nasty dilemma here.

oz_boz
03-05-2007, 09:40 AM
I still think that rafasgirlno1 is not really a Rafa fan at all but merely a troll

So do I.

rafagirlno1
03-05-2007, 01:06 PM
Not yet, really... maybe after Monte Carlo, Barcelona and Rome if Rafa wins them all again.

One question though... will Rafa win RG without dropping a set? :devil:

You proved to be quite a jinx in Dubai, let's see how you perform here... ;)

haha u got me there ;) but on clay i hve more confidence in rafa and can expect him to do much better thn a quarter final :)

Eden
03-05-2007, 01:08 PM
I don't know why some of you are so fascinated with these endless draw conversations.

Sure, Rafa had a tough draw. When talking about tough draws, he had didn't have an easy one in Dubai but it's all about matchups. Baghdatis is not an easy first round but Rafa found a way to win that match but he wasn't able to do that against Youzhny for the simple reason that Youzhny was the better player in that match.
Berdych is a very bad match-up and Youzhny can give him quite a bit of trouble as well. But if he had been on the other side, I'm sure that Djokovic would have been a tough opponent for Rafa as well for example and Haas is playing with confidence these days (just to name these two).
A tough draw is no excuse. A player needs to find a way to win, regardless of the draw. Berdych or Youzhny on his side of the draw would not been more difficult for Federer than Haas or Djokovic in his half.


You are absolutely right about the matchups. Berdych and Youzhny are dangerous players for Nadal, whilst on the other hand he didn't have any problems with Haas so far. They have met two times last year on handcourt and Rafa won both matches in straight sets.

I think Roger had with Haas a player in his draw who isn't a good match-up for him like for example Youzhny.

What makes Roger so special is his ability to bring on his best tennis against the top players. He has mostly problems against a player he had never played against so far.

Time will time how Nadal will play against the players who are a bad matchup for him now. It's important for him to face them, so that he and his team can analyze the match and what he can improve and do better the next time.

rafagirlno1
03-05-2007, 01:11 PM
Unfortunately for Rafa, most of his so-called "fans" are clueless tards, rafasgirltool is no exception :angel: :p

maybe i dont know depth and depth of tennis like u or someone but i can clearly say i know and support rafa even if he loses many many matches and dont support people just because they win like some do
:wavey:

rafagirlno1
03-05-2007, 01:31 PM
So do I.

i think u r a jackass who sits in front of his/her computer and just love speding time judging other people like u know them forever .
i know i hve sounded rude but i think u were the same one tht accused me the other day . if u dont like my opinion then reply it with yours making sense , and just dont go about judging whether i like rafa or am just acting over here .if thts wht u or anyone else does in such forums i am sorry i am not one of u . i just express my opinions and sometimes make a fool of my self with some bold predictions . but then again i atleast dont go about acusing anyone of faking it out over here .
again i am sorry but please dont judge anyone without any proper evidence. :rolleyes:

FluffyYellowBall
03-05-2007, 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by rafagirlno1
yaah metis , 100% agree with u . i am sure 90% of fed fans hve already started pissing in their pants thinking of this frightening prospect .
once the serve percentage is up on clay my boy would be unstoopable and thts something fed fans cannot stand but hev to deal with it
i am sure once clay season starts it would be business as usual for rafa , and i am already feeling so sorry for fed and his fans

His serve percentage doesnt need to be so good on clay. He was serving at about 60-70 % in dubai which isnt his best but that was with his "new serve":rolleyes:
And once the clay eason starts its just gonna be more pressure. I dont know how he'll react to this kind of pressure but even if he does win all on clay which im doubting, it wont be "business as usual"

Eden
03-05-2007, 01:58 PM
Definitely time to get a new coach ~ someone Nadal would respect & trust>>> how about Wilander??

Nadal seems to be for me someone who is really close to his family and the Spanish team. I think it will be hard for him to loosen his close relation with his coach.

Wilander was a great player, but he couldn't help Safin when he worked with him. It would surely be interesting to see how a cooperation between Mats and Rafa would look like, but it doesn't automatically create success when a player works with a former celebrity of the sport.

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 02:18 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:Why do Nadal fans refer to him as a "boy"?? Nadal is a man. A "young" man, but a man. I wonder if it's some fantasy Nadal fans have.........I once read, on another board, a Nadal fan who was saying that Nadal was a sweet boy who was still a virgin :haha: :haha: :haha:


It's part of their fantasy of the perfect boy, when he's in fact a bitter sore loser.

While I understand Rafa's concern about his serve (going for bigger first serves DID NOT help the likes of Chang and Hewitt), he needs to add variety and pace to it (at least on hard courts and clay). On clay and surprisingly grass, his serve from 2005-2006 is quite effective. He needs, however, to go for the bomb every once in a while. To abandon the bigger serve would be foolhardy...and would ultimately lead to either continuing losses to players like Misha and Berdych who are on their games or too much wear and tear on his body.

Agassi could get away with going for position on serve because of his flat groundies and return of serve. Agassi could attack from ANYWHERE once the point started...Rafa cannot.

I disagree with those who say Rafa CANNOT become more attacking in his play. This is where a coach (like Mats whom some have mentioned or Johnny Mac) could help. Rafa has the potential to be an excellent volleyer, and has superb feel at the net.

Look at Jimmy Connors towards the end of his career. He was what you could call an "opportunistic volleyer". He came into the net on strategic advances, and was successful even though he had a two handed backhand volley. Interestingly enough, he was a lefty as well.

For those who say it cannot be done (Rafa becoming more aggressive and attacking on well-placed approaches) are ignorant of precedent established by one of the legends of the game.

Oh my, now I can't simply read this without replying. You know nothing about tennis, :retard:
Superb feel at the net? WTF? He can't make a decent volley if a ball is thrown from someone's hand to him.
You're ignorant about everything. First you say Federer should thank god because of all the things HE HAS ACHIEVED HIMSELF. Now this. Connors played in another era, it's the same as comparing Sampras and McEnroe.

You're in the same league of Andre'sNo1tool and rafatrollno1.

FluffyYellowBall
03-05-2007, 02:18 PM
Nadal seems to be for me someone who is really close to his family and the Spanish team. I think it will be hard for him to loosen his close relation with his coach.

Wilander was a great player, but he couldn't help Safin when he worked with him. It would surely be interesting to see how a cooperation between Mats and Rafa would look like, but it doesn't automatically create success when a player works with a former celebrity of the sport.

But safin is not nadal. Safin will do what his head tells him. The coach tells him one thing and either goes right out the other ear or he'll interpret it the way he wishes! Dont know how rafa would like it but i think hes mature enough to change coaches when he knows its the right time and his uncle can still travel with him. Never got to watch Wilander but he was successful on fast surfaces as well as clay so maybe this could be successful. If he could play on both surfaces then im sure his style isnt completely different which will not be a good match.

DrJules
03-05-2007, 06:36 PM
Superb feel at the net? WTF? He can't make a decent volley if a ball is thrown from someone's hand to him.

Did you miss the high backhand smash from Nadal against Youzhny to save a match point last week.

Jim Courier
03-05-2007, 07:03 PM
Superb feel at the net? WTF? He can't make a decent volley if a ball is thrown from someone's hand to him.
Not true, i wouldn't go so far as to say Nadal has "Superb feel at the net" but he has hands:
-he can end the point efficiently
-he can stop the ball or put nice sidespin on slow balls
-good reflexes
-he's pretty good at cat and mouse games around the net, especially on clay
Of course he will never be a great volleyer, but that's pretty good for a baseliner

Roddick is a better example of a top player whose volleys are shit, he can only put away a ball straight at him and close to the net, and can't find any angles or stop the ball even with that unnatural racket head drop with the wrist.

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 07:12 PM
Did you miss the high backhand smash from Nadal against Youzhny to save a match point last week.

How many times can he do something like this in a year? Not more than once, so... even Roddick does a good volley once per semester.

Not true, i wouldn't go so far as to say Nadal has "Superb feel at the net" but he has hands:
-he can end the point efficiently
-he can stop the ball or put nice sidespin on slow balls
-good reflexes
-he's pretty good at cat and mouse games around the net, especially on clay
Of course he will never be a great volleyer, but that's pretty good for a baseliner

Roddick is a better example of a top player whose volleys are shit, he can only put away a ball straight at him and close to the net, and can't find any angles or stop the ball even with that unnatural racket head drop with the wrist.

1- you're just proving my point. Any 13 year old can end the point in a volley if the opponent is 30m away from the net.
2 - wrong, he can only do that backhand volley crosscourt, that's a joke in fact.
3 - proven by what? how many times he faces a good returner going to the net? never? going to the net against Mayer is easy enough.
4 - no, he's just used to sliding on clay. Against a good volleyer on any other surface he's just fooled at the net.

I agree with you on Roddick, though. His volley movement is embarassing.

Jim Courier
03-05-2007, 10:00 PM
1- you're just proving my point. Any 13 year old can end the point in a volley if the opponent is 30m away from the net.

Ridiculous exageration, at least admit Nadal can put some angle on a volley unlike say Roddick. His volleys don't skid like a great volleyer's but don't float either. You're just blinded by hatred:p

2 - wrong, he can only do that backhand volley crosscourt, that's a joke in fact.

Just watch RG 06 matches again and come back and tell me Nadal can't do a sidespin down the line backhand volley.

3 - proven by what? how many times he faces a good returner going to the net? never? going to the net against Mayer is easy enough.

I'm not talking about serve and volley you silly, we know Nadal doesn't do that except for the surprise factor (which he did with a little bit of success at Wimbledon). I'm talking about fast balls to the body which he can deal with.

4 - no, he's just used to sliding on clay. Against a good volleyer on any other surface he's just fooled at the net.

Again watch some RG 06 matches, he even fools Federer around sometimes. Nadal has a natural feel for what shot is right on a claycourt at the right time but you don't want to see that, you're too obsessed by his "mechanical imperfection".

Try to rewatch a good Nadal match with an open mind, you will be surprised:)

Sunset of Age
03-05-2007, 10:06 PM
^^ Very well said, Jim Courier.
Nadal isn't the bad player people consider him to be. Not at all.

goldenlox
03-05-2007, 10:20 PM
This clay season will be very interesting. If Nadal can't find his best form, Federer will be a huge favorite at RG.

Kalliopeia
03-05-2007, 10:25 PM
Try to rewatch a good Nadal match with an open mind, you will be surprised:)

It's really nice that you're trying, but keep in mind who you're talking to. He talks about Nadal more than Nadal's fans do, and only ever with the purpose of trashing him. Kind of funny, actually. :)

GlennMirnyi
03-05-2007, 10:40 PM
Ridiculous exageration, at least admit Nadal can put some angle on a volley unlike say Roddick. His volleys don't skid like a great volleyer's but don't float either. You're just blinded by hatred:p

Just watch RG 06 matches again and come back and tell me Nadal can't do a sidespin down the line backhand volley.

I'm not talking about serve and volley you silly, we know Nadal doesn't do that except for the surprise factor (which he did with a little bit of success at Wimbledon). I'm talking about fast balls to the body which he can deal with.

Again watch some RG 06 matches, he even fools Federer around sometimes. Nadal has a natural feel for what shot is right on a claycourt at the right time but you don't want to see that, you're too obsessed by his "mechanical imperfection".

Try to rewatch a good Nadal match with an open mind, you will be surprised:)

A bunch of suppositions based on one match. You can't give me 10 examples of good volleys from Nadal all over the last year. Guess why...

Next thing you gonna tell me a good volley should spin to the side. A good volley skids and finishes the point.

Again, going to the net when the ball is easy is one thing. Going against a cannonball is another. You're giving awful examples to prove your point. If a player goes 5 times to the net in easy balls and makes 100% of the points, is he better at the net than a guy that goes 60 and makes 77%?

Going to the net only in a last resort, in an easy ball, is one thing. Looking for the net and gettin' cannonballs to volley is another.

sawan66278
03-06-2007, 04:14 AM
Ah, Mr. Mirnyi...I do not plan on engaging in a theological discussion with you. This is not the proper "forum" if you will, and certainly, as evidenced by your amazingly cretinous responses and analysis, not worth the time. What can I say? You are correct...I know nothing about tennis. And should simply refrain from responding or giving MY OPINION (not fact, opinion).

Since the strategies of those players from the past should never be considered or used as teaching tools, I have a great idea. Anyone over the age of 30 should neither: 1. Comment, 2. teach, or 3. play tennis. Applying the Coach Mirnyi theories, only players under the age of 30 understand the game.

How could I have been SO SO SO wrong to think that Rafa could learn from a player like Jimmy Connors? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: You're right: Rafa could never if think about saving a match point with a volley at the net? What was I thinking?

CyBorg
03-06-2007, 05:52 AM
I have faith in Rafael. He needs to stay confident as best he can. I am concerned that too much fidling could be detrimental if he keeps switching back and forth. He has to know his limitations.

I think Rafa needs to learn to serve and volley and flatten out his groundstrokes on faster surfaces. Easier said than done though.

The tennis world needs Nadal. Take him out of the equation and things get much less interesting. I hope to see a rebirth in the clay court season.

Magus13
03-06-2007, 12:31 PM
I'm admiitedly not a Nadal fan. I think his biggest problem is the lack of a coach who can help his game progress. Roddick is makeing changes to his game as well as Muarry. Look at the change in Gonzalez. Even Fed has improved backhand and net game with Roche. In every sport you must make adjustments as other adjust to you. If Nadal stays stagnant his results will simillar to the last 9 months. He is losing now to Fed, Berdych, Youzhney and Blake regularly and its only a matter of time before Djokovic and Muarry join that group. The right coach really could help reverse that trend. Between Sharapova Vaidasovaand Nadal, family coaching sucks.

TheMightyFed
03-06-2007, 02:47 PM
Nadal cannot have the luxury to have two different motions for 1st and 2nd serve like in Australia, how can you be consistent ? His closed grip and FH open stance, his defensive game and positioning are designed for clay, his spinny serve too. He's a claycourter basically. Federer is good everywhere because he combines classical and modern techniques, he was brought up on clay and has great hands and touch. And his sublime footwork (defensive and offensive) is a great weapon on every surface.
Nadal doesn't have all that, he's very good in his own style but he cannot become a hardcourt player overnight. He should improve his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. Wilander, who was able to change his game to suit hard and grass, had less extreme technique IMO.

Jim Courier
03-06-2007, 06:00 PM
A bunch of suppositions based on one match. You can't give me 10 examples of good volleys from Nadal all over the last year. Guess why...

Next thing you gonna tell me a good volley should spin to the side. A good volley skids and finishes the point.

Again, going to the net when the ball is easy is one thing. Going against a cannonball is another. You're giving awful examples to prove your point. If a player goes 5 times to the net in easy balls and makes 100% of the points, is he better at the net than a guy that goes 60 and makes 77%?

Going to the net only in a last resort, in an easy ball, is one thing. Looking for the net and gettin' cannonballs to volley is another.

You actually expect me to point you to specific volleys in specific matches? Like 06'59 on so and so youtube vids? You would still not concede the point anyway. Nadal was volleying well (for a baseliner) at Wimbledon, i'm sure you could find 10 in just that tournament.

It depends, sometimes a skidding volley is better sometimes not. I'm sure you're able to imagine a few cases where sidespin is useful, if you have ever played tennis. Like on a dipping ball with the opponent on the other side. Being able to put some sidespin at will indicates a volleyer has hands, as it is harder to do than on a ground shot. Also even classic volleyers like Sampras sometimes put a little sidespin on their skidding backhand volleys, and these volleys were harder to deal with because of it. Nadal can't do those but he sure can do the short one on a dipping ball.

What are you talking about? Being able to cope with fast balls demands good volley reflexes, that's all i'm saying.

That doesn't sound like it has much to do with what i said.