Why are everyone angry against Blake? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Why are everyone angry against Blake?

marcRD
03-03-2007, 01:40 AM
It is the RR which is the problem. Blake did have a better games differencial than anyone in the group and still couldnt get throught. He still took it like a gentleman in the interview I heard and said Korolev deserved his spot.

Both of them would have been injustified no matter ATPs decision. So why all anger against poor Blake?

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 04:42 AM
People have always had this undertone of anger towards Blake for whatever reason. Now people just have an excuse to openly talk crap about him. The incident happened, he made a mistake he's human and a tennis SINGLES (the most selfish athletes) player. I still support him and I don't give a cr*p about what anyone thinks and refuse to be a drone and jump on a hater bandwagon. It's really childish if you think about it.

henree
03-03-2007, 04:48 AM
Generally speaking. Most people around here don't like Blake personally. This situation is just a great excuse to hate him even more. It has a lot to do with Blake's "Goody Two Shoes" image.

Hendu
03-03-2007, 04:50 AM
because of his net game.

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 04:59 AM
Generally speaking. Most people around here don't like Blake personally. This situation is just a great excuse to hate him even more. It has a lot to do with Blake's "Goody Two Shoes" image.

What I don't get is Blake has a "Goody Two Shoes" image, but that is what the MEDIA chose to portray him as. James doesn't walk around saying "I'm perfect, I do no wrong" etc; So as soon as he makes a mistake people jump all over him, and it really isn't fairt. Guillermo Canas was a KNOWN drug cheat, and he doesn't get the flack that a clean competing James gets. Oh well, I won't stop supporting him regardless of what the hot commodity seems to be.

Hendu
03-03-2007, 05:04 AM
What I don't get is Blake has a "Goody Two Shoes" image, but that is what the MEDIA chose to portray him as. James doesn't walk around saying "I'm perfect, I do no wrong" etc; So as soon as he makes a mistake people jump all over him, and it really isn't fairt. Guillermo Canas was a KNOWN drug cheat, and he doesn't get the flack that a clean competing James gets. Oh well, I won't stop supporting him regardless of what the hot commodity seems to be.

get your facts straight!

:lol:

Hendu
03-03-2007, 05:09 AM
Blake thought it was a fair decision to violate the rules, making him go to quarters.

As for Cañas, get a clue.

http://www.itftennis.com/antidoping/news/newsarticle.asp?id=16515

Court of Arbitration for Sport reduces suspension of Guillermo Canas to 15 months

Lausanne, 23 May 2006 – The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) has partially upheld the appeal filed by the Argentinean tennis player, Guillermo Cañas, against the decision of the Anti-doping Tribunal of the ATP Tour of 7 August 2005.

The Tribunal of the ATP Tour found that Guillermo Cañas tested positive for the prohibited substance hydrochlorothiazide (HCT) at the ATP tournament “Abierto Mexicano de Tenis” in Acapulco, Mexico on 21 February 2005. As a consequence, the Tribunal of the ATP Tour disqualified the Player from the Acapulco tournament and suspended him for a period of two years, effective from 11 June 2005. Furthermore, the Tribunal ordered the disqualification of the Player from the competitions he took part in between 21 February 2005 and 11 June 2005, with the exception of Roland Garros, a tournament during which he tested negative.

The Player filed an appeal with the CAS on 29 August 2005 to request the annulment of the ATP Tour decision. This matter was submitted to a panel composed of Ms Maidie Oliveau (USA), President, Mr Christopher Campbell (USA) and Mr Yves Fortier (Canada). The parties, their representatives and witnesses were heard by the Panel at a hearing in New York on 19 and 20 January 2006.

On the basis of the evidence submitted by the parties, the Panel of arbitrators found that the Player ingested a medication called “Rofucal”, delivered to him by the tournament staff in Acapulco although the tournament doctor prescribed a different medication for him. G.Cañas took the medication he received without reviewing the content of the box, even though he knew that the medication had been through several hands before being delivered to him. The Panel noted also that the doping control form completed by the Player did not list the medication prescribed by the tournament doctor.

The Panel considered that the Player was entitled to rely on the expertise of independent medical staff provided by the organisers of the Acapulco tournament. The arbitrators also emphasised the fact that a mistake in the delivery of the medication was made not by the Player, but rather by the tournament staff. However, the Panel considered that the Player had a duty of utmost caution after visiting the tournament doctor to ascertain whether the medication received was indeed the medication prescribed by the doctor.

In conclusion, the Panel was of the opinion that the negligence committed by the Player was not significant and decided that his period of ineligibility should be reduced by nine months, from two years to fifteen months. The suspension of G. Cañas which started on 11 June 2005 will come to end on 10 September 2006. In addition, the Panel decided that other than with respect to the Acapulco tournament, none of the results achieved by G.Canãs before 11 June 2005 should be disqualified.

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 05:15 AM
Blake thought it was a fair decision to violate the rules, making him go to quarters.

As for Cañas, get a clue.

http://www.itftennis.com/antidoping/news/newsarticle.asp?id=16515

Get a clue about what? That he cheated and got caught? :shrug:

Hendu
03-03-2007, 05:19 AM
Get a clue about what? That he cheated and got caught? :shrug:

reading comprehension problems.

I get it now...

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 05:20 AM
reading comprehension problems.

I get it now...

Personal attacks now I see, simply juvenile :cool:

Sofyaxo
03-03-2007, 05:22 AM
Blake thought it was a fair decision to violate the rules, making him go to quarters.



That's what bothered me. And then he stuck to that after the quarter final spot was taken away.

I don't blame what happened on him, I just think he could have worded himself better or something.

Hendu
03-03-2007, 05:28 AM
That's what bothered me. And then he stuck to that after the quarter final spot was taken away.

I don't blame what happened on him, I just think he could have worded himself better or something.

The system and de villiers are the main responsible of the problem, but Blake sucking de villiers' ass, claiming that it was fair to change the rules in the middle of the tournament was pathetic.

ufokart
03-03-2007, 05:29 AM
Get a clue about what? That he cheated and got caught? :shrug:

Did you even read what he posted? :rolleyes:

FanofFederer
03-03-2007, 05:32 AM
agreed. blake has always conducted himself with class on and off court. his dedication to charity, his tact and gentlemanly manner when dealing with fans and the media, the way he handled hewitt's racist remarks at the us open, the way he stuck up for the sydney tournament, are all indicators of his admirable character. i think we should cut blake some slack in this instance; it did seem like he was going through to win that match, and at the end of the day it was the atp's decision to send him through and not his. blake is the new agassi, except black :)

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 05:34 AM
agreed. blake has always conducted himself with class on and off court. his dedication to charity, his tact and gentlemanly manner when dealing with fans and the media, the way he handled hewitt's racist remarks at the us open, the way he stuck up for the sydney tournament, are all indicators of his admirable character. i think we should cut blake some slack in this instance; it did seem like he was going through to win that match, and at the end of the day it was the atp's decision to send him through and not his. blake is the new agassi, except black :)

I agree, people are so quick to point out ONE mistake but ignore all of the positive aspects of his personality.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 05:35 AM
blake is the new agassi, except black :)

You mean he is now James Fake?

Hendu
03-03-2007, 05:36 AM
agreed. blake has always conducted himself with class on and off court. his dedication to charity, his tact and gentlemanly manner when dealing with fans and the media, the way he handled hewitt's racist remarks at the us open, the way he stuck up for the sydney tournament, are all indicators of his admirable character. i think we should cut blake some slack in this instance; it did seem like he was going through to win that match, and at the end of the day it was the atp's decision to send him through and not his. blake is the new agassi, except black :)

so what?

de villiers predicts the future?

he can say Del Potro wouldn't have won that second set... if the match continued Blake could have gotten injured.

And if Del Potro withdrew before the match started, Korolev would have gotten through, and not Blake.

De Villiers wanted to break the rules and make the more popular and better ranked player get to quarters, and Blake was happy with that.

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 05:37 AM
Did you even read what he posted? :rolleyes:

Yes MONTHS ago when it was posted, but I'm not naive enough to buy it. Just like no one else is giving James a chance, I have a choice not to give a drug cheat a chance :wavey:

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 05:38 AM
You mean he is now James Fake?

So clever :worship: :rolleyes:

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 05:40 AM
Yes MONTHS ago when it was posted, but I'm not naive enough to buy it. Just like no one else is giving James a chance, I have a choice not to give a drug cheat a chance :wavey:

In other words you are a lawyer and can prove that the case wasn't built on faulty foundations.

Thanks fanboy for the great remark.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 05:44 AM
It is the RR which is the problem. Blake did have a better games differencial than anyone in the group and still couldnt get throught. He still took it like a gentleman in the interview I heard and said Korolev deserved his spot.

Both of them would have been injustified no matter ATPs decision. So why all anger against poor Blake?

If he was a gentleman, then he'd not have taken the spot when Mr.Disney came into to protect the biggest attraction of the event, at the expense of the rules.

How do you work out Blake had a greater game differential? Korolev 48,3 and Blake 33,3 percent.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?file=http://www.atptennis.com/posting/2007/433/mds.pdf

ufokart
03-03-2007, 05:44 AM
Yes MONTHS ago when it was posted, but I'm not naive enough to buy it. Just like no one else is giving James a chance, I have a choice not to give a drug cheat a chance :wavey:

Ok, you don't buy what the court found :haha: You are a clever one. Maybe you should have been one of the judges and enlightened us :lol:

Then we have nothing else to discuss here :wavey: Have fun with your thread :p :lol:

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 05:46 AM
In other words you are a lawyer and can prove that the case wasn't built on faulty foundations.

Thanks fanboy for the great remark.

Just as well as you can prove that James Blake is indeed James "Fake"

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 05:47 AM
Ok, you don't buy what the court found :haha: You are a clever one. Maybe you should have been one of the judges and enlightened us :lol:

Then we have nothing else to discuss here :wavey: Have fun with your thread :p :lol:

bye :wavey:

Hendu
03-03-2007, 05:51 AM
Blake: "It seems to me the right decision" "Maybe that's biased but it is a fair decision."

Safin on the same issue:

“I think to be honest, with all due respect, that the situation has been handled in a not professional way at all.”

“For a serious organization [like the] ATP, you can't make these kind of decisions in the middle of the week, by the phone, and the CEO disappointed me a lot."

“It will be a big thing in the coming weeks when everybody finds out what happened – Roger Federer and Andy Roddick. Hewitt was here also, he said it was ridiculous. There's going to be serious talking.”

"This is exactly the saddest part," he said. "If it had been the other way around, nobody would care about it and it just would be no discussion at all."

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 05:52 AM
Just as well as you can prove that James Blake is indeed James "Fake"

In other words you don't have an argument. It's simple read the case, it's all there documented to be seen and if you want a PDF file it's available.

Next point. Blake builds himself up to be a classy guy and the media projects his image. This was a situation albeit difficult where he could have said no towards blatant favourtism and then he would have got a lot of appreciation instead of the deserved questioning from fans and non-fans alike.

The actions reveal more than hollow words. Yes, it was a "commonsense" solution, that is an insult to peoples intelligence. It was commonsense cause it suited him.

:wavey: , nothing more to see here.

Hendu
03-03-2007, 05:52 AM
How do you work out Blake had a greater game differential? Korolev 48,3 and Blake 33,3 percent.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?file=http://www.atptennis.com/posting/2007/433/mds.pdf

Don't come here with facts, who cares about them?

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 05:59 AM
Next point. Blake builds himself up to be a classy guy and the media projects his image. This was a situation albeit difficult where he could have said no towards blatant favourtism and then he would have got a lot of appreciation instead of the deserved questioning from fans and non-fans alike.


How exactly does Blake build HIMSELF up to be a classy guy? By actually BEING a classy person? By not talking trash about his opponents in press conferences? By signing autographs for children even after losses? By not cursing linesmen and/or umpires during matches? I could go on...

Yes I agree that his actions weren't the most kosher, but for people to sit on a pedestal and say what a horrible person he is because he used bad judgement is very hypocritical. He is a human, and entitled to mistakes just like the next guy. IMO James hasn't done ANYTHING to earn the right to be called "Fake".

almouchie
03-03-2007, 06:17 AM
blake & kolorev aside
ATP messed up BIG TIME

if ever the ridiculous round robin format, proves wrong & unfair,
you only have to see what has happened in their first tournaments it started beign used
absolutely ridiculous
ATP are so interested in fan excitment, entertainment, TV coverage
& all that BS
& think the fans like controversay, else it would be boring
well a news flash, these people who can't enjoy tennis as it is, are not fans
they will lose interest pretty quick
why the constant need to change things, is beyond me
one day, we may even see them changing the score, the sets, the points even at the rate they are going
Hawkeye proved errorness a few times already,
so much for technology.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 06:39 AM
How exactly does Blake build HIMSELF up to be a classy guy? By actually BEING a classy person? By not talking trash about his opponents in press conferences? By signing autographs for children even after losses? By not cursing linesmen and/or umpires during matches? I could go on...

Not cursing at linespeople and officials? He is not Stefan Edberg. He has done that before and will do so again, but lots of players do that. You remember the ones that don't.

You suffer from selective memory? Blake vs. Monfils at RG in 06 and he was arguing with Carlos Ramos during the match and after the match and asked " Have you ever played tennis".

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060604/060604_james_blake_hmed_9a.hmedium.jpg

Of course anyone can say nice words that please people, as for signing autographs after losing, some do it and others don't. At least with people like Rios, Muster, Nalbandian, Kafelnikov, Berdych for example they maybe arseholes and not very likeable to some, but at least they aren't trying to project an image.

World Beater
03-03-2007, 06:44 AM
i dont really understand some of the view points by posters here. The ATP isn't the NBA, MLB or any other contractual sport. The competition is far more cuthroat and there isnt as much money to go around as there is in golf. How can you blame Blake when his progress during a tennis tournament is the sole basis of his livelyhood?

This reminds me of the tim henman-nalbandian fiasco in madrid where nalbandian expected henman to just give him some points based on sportsmanship. LMAO.

World Beater
03-03-2007, 06:47 AM
Not cursing at linespeople and officials? He is not Stefan Edberg. He has done that before and will do so again, but lots of players do that. You remember the ones that don't.

You suffer from selective memory? Blake vs. Monfils at RG in 06 and he was arguing with Carlos Ramos during the match and after the match and asked " Have you ever played tennis".

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060604/060604_james_blake_hmed_9a.hmedium.jpg

Of course anyone can say nice words that please people, as for signing autographs after losing, some do it and others don't. At least with people like Rios, Muster, Nalbandian, Kafelnikov, Berdych for example they maybe arseholes and not very likeable to some, but at least they aren't trying to project an image.

thats the best dirt you could dig up on blake? Come on now, you make him look like a saint.

With that said, edberg wasn't all that either. He was low key but much of his perception as a sportsman was built up by the media as much as blake's image. Even you know this.

gulzhan
03-03-2007, 06:51 AM
How exactly does Blake build HIMSELF up to be a classy guy? By actually BEING a classy person? By not talking trash about his opponents in press conferences? By signing autographs for children even after losses? By not cursing linesmen and/or umpires during matches? I could go on...


i do not like blake and think that "fake" is a great nick for him :lol: it's not that i disliked him a lot before, i did not care, but when he used davydenko's not well-thought (and in fact, just not well-said in english) comment on sydney for making storm in a tea-spoon and clearly liked it his pal-player penalized for nothing, i started looking at him closer....

the story with korolev is VERY typical for james blake... he did make comment it was right decision (i still believe he wanted that decision), he did not care about other player's interest for a split second, he acted as a 100% politician... well, he forgot fereiro's case :haha: that was his and mr. disney's mistake.... he also underestimated safin and hewitt.... well, he'll learn from that, don't worry....

how did blake built himself up to be whatever? :shrug: he had that goal... most of the players don't... i mean some people just love politics, power and they chose it as their future and start working on it... that's all the secret....

and finally, SOME PEOPLE adore politicians :p so, blake will ALWAYS have someone on his side...

FanofFederer
03-03-2007, 07:05 AM
no one is perfect...the great 'saintly' personalities of rafter, edberg, agassi all had their moments when they behaved badly. it's just that when someone has such an image people tend to be cynical and are prepared to tear it down at the slightest transgression :)

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 07:13 AM
thats the best dirt you could dig up on blake? Come on now, you make him look like a saint.

With that said, edberg wasn't all that either. He was low key but much of his perception as a sportsman was built up by the media as much as blake's image. Even you know this.

When someone says they never argue or curse at line officials. Then I gave an example where this was not the case. The problem with that, is exactly what?

I am far from a fan of Edberg, but he didn't act up on court as an adult. This is the tactic, oh someone else does it, so it must be OK.

As for Blake, well of course you missed the whole Ferrero situation and farce in Buenos Aires then? Yes, he is lacking cash at the moment.

henree
03-03-2007, 07:37 AM
Amazing how you started this thread to complain about other people's biases and then turn around to readily admit that you have your own unfair biases that you're going to apply arbitrarily. Pot, meet kettle.

Also, most of us have been saying that the problem lies with the system and not with James, even though James really could have handled this better. I see nothing unfair about that. Yes, there have been plenty of people using this incident as an excuse to slam James, but that type of person exists on any high-traffic message board, and considering your own comments about Cañas you're hardly in a position to complain.

Very well said. :worship:

my0118
03-03-2007, 07:39 AM
Not cursing at linespeople and officials? He is not Stefan Edberg. He has done that before and will do so again, but lots of players do that. You remember the ones that don't.

You suffer from selective memory? Blake vs. Monfils at RG in 06 and he was arguing with Carlos Ramos during the match and after the match and asked " Have you ever played tennis".

Of course anyone can say nice words that please people, as for signing autographs after losing, some do it and others don't. At least with people like Rios, Muster, Nalbandian, Kafelnikov, Berdych for example they maybe arseholes and not very likeable to some, but at least they aren't trying to project an image.

agree. like Hewitt, I don't like him and don't dislike him either for his personality because he just expresses himself who he is even though sometimes we criticize him when he crossed the lines. he has bad ass, that is all. Just don't fake your personality.

And of course any player who had been in Blake's situation would've been really tough. but probably even players who have an image of badboy would know what is right or not. At least Blake would've been criticized less what he commented if he had said like, after accepting his QF spot, "I got a little bit lucky for reaching QF, well I can't say which is the right decision, just feeling sorry for Korolev, and I hope the situation like this will never happen again"

federated
03-03-2007, 08:43 AM
I agree, people are so quick to point out ONE mistake but ignore all of the positive aspects of his personality.

Agreed. No one is perfect...and glass houses, folks. Let's just all go back to hating hewitt and roddick, the guys that really deserve it.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 08:57 AM
agree. like Hewitt, I don't like him and don't dislike him either for his personality because he just expresses himself who he is even though sometimes we criticize him when he crossed the lines. he has bad ass, that is all. Just don't fake your personality.

Agreed about Hewitt.

And of course any player who had been in Blake's situation would've been really tough. but probably even players who have an image of badboy would know what is right or not. At least Blake would've been criticized less what he commented if he had said like, after accepting his QF spot, "I got a little bit lucky for reaching QF, well I can't say which is the right decision, just feeling sorry for Korolev, and I hope the situation like this will never happen again"

Blake didn't help himself at all in this situation and has deserved all the criticism he has received for his actions or lack of them. It's like anything, people will take a free ride when they get one.

jayjay
03-03-2007, 10:28 AM
Personal attacks now I see, simply juvenile :cool:

It was ok for you to personally attack Guillermo Canas as a drug cheat even though he was proven not to be though, right? :rolleyes:

Socket
03-03-2007, 12:14 PM
Blake: "It seems to me the right decision" "Maybe that's biased but it is a fair decision."

Safin on the same issue:

“I think to be honest, with all due respect, that the situation has been handled in a not professional way at all.”

“For a serious organization [like the] ATP, you can't make these kind of decisions in the middle of the week, by the phone, and the CEO disappointed me a lot."

“It will be a big thing in the coming weeks when everybody finds out what happened – Roger Federer and Andy Roddick. Hewitt was here also, he said it was ridiculous. There's going to be serious talking.”

"This is exactly the saddest part," he said. "If it had been the other way around, nobody would care about it and it just would be no discussion at all."

And, for me, Blake's position on the Players Council made the whole situation worse. ToJo, the other player at the event who's on the Council, really stuck up for Korolev, to the point to telling Blake that he (ToJo) thought he (Blake) was wrong. But Blake just went with "me, first." Don't pretend to be concerned about your fellow players and take a position of responsibility for them, and then say what he said, and act the way he acted.

What Blake said at first about the decision to advance him to the QF being "fair" and making "common sense" was just ridiculous. How stupid did he think we were, that we (fans and his fellow players in the locker room) would buy that BS just because he was JAMES BLAKE THE MEDIA DARLING? He really exuded this incredible sense of entitlement, that he deserved to have the rules bent for him because of who he was. It was really, really grating, and the speed with which Safin and Hewitt jumped on him seems to indicate that they felt the same way.

The irony of the whole situation is that Lleyton and Marat, two bigmouths who love bending the rules and sassing everyone in the room, ended up looking so much better than Mr. Goody Two Shoes-Media Darling. :lol:

Julio1974
03-03-2007, 12:38 PM
i dont really understand some of the view points by posters here. The ATP isn't the NBA, MLB or any other contractual sport. The competition is far more cuthroat and there isnt as much money to go around as there is in golf. How can you blame Blake when his progress during a tennis tournament is the sole basis of his livelyhood?

This reminds me of the tim henman-nalbandian fiasco in madrid where nalbandian expected henman to just give him some points based on sportsmanship. LMAO.

You think players like Nalbandian, Henman and Blake are so concerned about the money at this stage of their career?? :haha: :haha:
Do you know how much money these guys earn only for publicity??

kapranos
03-03-2007, 12:39 PM
I'm sorry but a player who supports cheating when it is in his favor isn't "classy", nor is a respectable player.

There is no excuse. Period. I can think of many players who would have handled the situation more intelligently.

Rogiman
03-03-2007, 12:42 PM
You mean he is now James Fake?:haha:

I enjoy watching him play though.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 12:44 PM
The irony of the whole situation is that Lleyton and Marat, two bigmouths who love bending the rules and sassing everyone in the room, ended up looking so much better than Mr. Goody Two Shoes-Media Darling. :lol:

So true.

euroka1
03-03-2007, 12:57 PM
I'm not angry as much as sad about all this.
The time-line of the whole business is important.

http://tennisworld.typepad.com/travelblogue/2007/03/merrygoroundrob.html

It is not that Blake was forced into instant comment. He had plenty of time to work out what was going on and his position on the Players Council gave him added responsibility.

He is supposedly bright and clever. If it had been Andy Roddick, I would be more forgiving. :)

marcRD
03-03-2007, 01:00 PM
If he was a gentleman, then he'd not have taken the spot when Mr.Disney came into to protect the biggest attraction of the event, at the expense of the rules.

How do you work out Blake had a greater game differential? Korolev 48,3 and Blake 33,3 percent.

http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?file=http://www.atptennis.com/posting/2007/433/mds.pdf

They didnt count in Blakes match against Del Potro. Results in the group:

Blake-Del Potro 6-1 3-1
Korolev-Blake 6-2 6-4
Del Potro-Korolev 6-2 6-3

Blake won 15 games and lost 14
Korolev won 17 games and lost 18
Del Potro won14 games and lost 14

Blake had the best differencial.

Meeek
03-03-2007, 01:07 PM
The system and de villiers are the main responsible of the problem, but Blake sucking de villiers' ass, claiming that it was fair to change the rules in the middle of the tournament was pathetic.


My thoughts exactly.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 01:07 PM
They didnt count in Blakes match against Del Potro. Results in the group:

Blake-Del Potro 6-1 3-1
Korolev-Blake 6-2 6-4
Del Potro-Korolev 6-2 6-3

Blake won 15 games and lost 14
Korolev won 17 games and lost 18
Del Potro won14 games and lost 14

Blake had the best differencial.

They counted Blake's win, but that doesn't count against del Potro the retirement, so in essence del Potro has 12-5 in differential which is the best.

Since the match wasn't completed and we know under the rules there is no way Blake deserved to go through.

marcRD
03-03-2007, 01:19 PM
They counted Blake's win, but that doesn't count against del Potro the retirement, so in essence del Potro has 12-5 in differential which is the best.

Since the match wasn't completed and we know under the rules there is no way Blake deserved to go through.

The rule is stupid, Del Potro could have been friend with Korolev and when he understood he had no chanse to win he could retire to let his friend go to the next round.

Blake deserved to go throught as much as Korolev, he did all he could and it was not in his control if his opponent would retire or not, he had already achieved the game differencial needed and only had to hold serve for the rest of the match against a tired Del Potro. Blake got fckd by the rule and ATp changed it because they saw their mistake for not taking into acount these scenarios, but u cant change rules (even if they are stupid) in the middle of the tournament, so they changed their mind once again. Who deserved to go to the next round? It is impossible to say, but the rule says Korolev should be the one and I accept it and so did Blake when he had some time to think about it.

There was no justice and there could be no justice in this scenario.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 01:30 PM
The rule is stupid, Del Potro could have been friend with Korolev and when he understood he had no chanse to win he could retire to let his friend go to the next round..

Could you take off the blinkers for a second. You do know del Potro had a virus didn't you? He actually shouldn't have taken the court, but he tried and couldn't continue. You do know how hard it is to run around when you are feeling crap?

Korolev deserved to go through and the right decision was made according to the rules. Since even with your bias that you admit rules shouldn't be changed in the middle of the event, then there is no way Blake deserved to go through.

Juanquis.Angel
03-03-2007, 01:35 PM
I'll agree that it wasn't a good decision by Blake to go along with de Villiers' judgment call, but I would think that perhaps if some of us were in Blake's position and we knew we could either choose to go along with de Villiers and continue playing, or go against him and go home, we may choose the former.

celia
03-03-2007, 01:36 PM
don't hate the player. hate the cowards who make up the rules and then don't stick to them.

celia
03-03-2007, 01:40 PM
And, for me, Blake's position on the Players Council made the whole situation worse.

The irony of the whole situation is that Lleyton and Marat, two bigmouths who love bending the rules and sassing everyone in the room, ended up looking so much better than Mr. Goody Two Shoes-Media Darling. :lol:

what exactly is Blake's position on the Players Council?

agree about Hewitt and Safin.

kapranos
03-03-2007, 01:44 PM
don't hate the player. hate the cowards who make up the rules and then don't stick to them.

Blake didn't show any opposition to the fact there weren't sticking to the rules. He even supported that. So he's as guilty. He could have chose to say nothing at least.

celia
03-03-2007, 01:49 PM
... He could have chose to say nothing at least.

in hindsight i agree with this statement. i'm not sure how many of us would speak out against ourselves if we had a sneaky chance to win a cool million dollars or whatever the purse is. but he could have said nothing and let the officials decide on the rules. or he could have said, "i don't make the rules, i just play by them" or something equally generic. alas, he's human. and he saw an opportunity to bend things his way. how many of us have the generosity and decency of a Magnus Norman (who once called out against himself on match point)? James is going to feel the burn for this for a long time.

please someone tell me -- what exactly is his official position on the Players Council? i wasn't even aware that he had one.

croat123
03-03-2007, 01:53 PM
if blake was as classy of a player as he pretends to be, he wouldn't have said that breaking set rules (which he was a huge supporter of before this tournament) was o.k. if it meant him advancing to the qf over a player who he lost too

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 01:54 PM
please someone tell me -- what exactly is his official position on the Players Council? i wasn't even aware that he had one.

http://www.atptennis.com/5/en/media/reports/06_President.pdf

Socket
03-03-2007, 02:26 PM
what exactly is Blake's position on the Players Council?

agree about Hewitt and Safin.

See above. :)

Tennis Fool
03-03-2007, 02:26 PM
It is the RR which is the problem. Blake did have a better games differencial than anyone in the group and still couldnt get throught. He still took it like a gentleman in the interview I heard and said Korolev deserved his spot.

Both of them would have been injustified no matter ATPs decision.

People have always had this undertone of anger towards Blake for whatever reason. Now people just have an excuse to openly talk crap about him. The incident happened, he made a mistake he's human and a tennis SINGLES (the most selfish athletes) player.

Generally speaking. Most people around here don't like Blake personally. This situation is just a great excuse to hate him even more. It has a lot to do with Blake's "Goody Two Shoes" image.

I'll agree that it wasn't a good decision by Blake to go along with de Villiers' judgment call, but I would think that perhaps if some of us were in Blake's position and we knew we could either choose to go along with de Villiers and continue playing, or go against him and go home, we may choose the former.

don't hate the player. hate the cowards who make up the rules and then don't stick to them.

Right answers.

kapranos
03-03-2007, 02:28 PM
Blake was wrong, end of the discussion.

Tennis Fool
03-03-2007, 02:35 PM
Here's what Korolev had to say...

''Everyone does mistakes. But it's really not fair to me or James. I was told I was playing when I got a call at 5 a.m. from my agent and at 6 a.m. from the (ATP Tour) supervisor. ... I tried to concentrate and fight for every ball. I thought if I lose, guys will think they made the wrong decision.''

''We accept it and have to go through with it. I can't say it was definitely the right thing or the wrong thing; it's what the ATP decided.''

Neely
03-03-2007, 02:44 PM
Blake is the big boooo guy now because he was happy and looked to support, accept a decision where other people made the wrong call first and did not understand their own crappy rules - call the rules this way one week, and differently the next week, change them in the middle of the tournament.

People demanded that Blake surrenders the QF spot before it even came that far that. Booo, he didn't, now hate him for that, and the decision was overturned again meanwhile. And now show me the athlete who turns down a gift that is his favour or who doesn't take the foul shot he knows he did not deserve. Ridiculous to blame this mess to such(!) an extent on Blake as it was prematurely done by MTF'ers :cuckoo:

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 02:49 PM
Blake is the big boooo guy now because he was happy and looked to support, accept a decision where other people made the wrong call first and did not understand their own crappy rules - call the rules this way one week, and differently the next week, change them in the middle of the tournament.

Vice President of the ATP Players Council doesn't know the rules of the format. Hmm, who isn't doing their job and I forgot it's cuckoo to expect a minimal level of competency.

Neely
03-03-2007, 02:53 PM
Vice President of the ATP Players Council doesn't know the rules of the format. Hmm, who isn't doing their job and I forgot it's cuckoo to expect a minimal level of competency.
Blake could have known this (and every other player of course too), but as for the decision, it is not him who put him into the QFs first, and who bumped him out again short time later.

Grinder
03-03-2007, 02:55 PM
Exactly, it's mostly people grasping for straws.

kapranos
03-03-2007, 03:00 PM
People demanded that Blake surrenders the QF spot before it even came that far that.

Err, no, people demand he didn't support the decision, not that he surrenders the QF spot.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 03:01 PM
Blake could have known this (and every other player of course too), but as for the decision, it is not him who put him into the QFs first, and who bumped him out again short time later.

Blake is on the Players Council, so as VP he should know all the rules that they were going to use for this hideous format. The right decision under the circumstances within the rules was reached, but it should have never come down to this and taken so much time. Just makes a joke of the sport.

kapranos
03-03-2007, 03:06 PM
He could have simply said: "I will follow whatever decision the ATP is making, I have no power over that."

"I don't agree with the decision, but if they say I'm in, I'm in."

"I don't fully understand what's going on but I have no choice but to follow what they say".

Galathea
03-03-2007, 03:09 PM
Blake could have known this (and every other player of course too), but as for the decision, it is not him who put him into the QFs first, and who bumped him out again short time later.

No it wasn't him, but it was Blake himself who supported that decision saying it was the "right thing to do" (meaning changing the rules in the middle)
As I said before, I can understand Blake not dropping the QF, but at least have tha balls to admit that you're accepting that sh*t because you need the points and the decision is unfair!. I honestly preffer someone saying something similar, that a VP player council saying that this crap was the right thing to do.
You shoul have seen Ferrero's face when he was going to pass to the next round just because the winner couldn't be founded (yes Ferrero had two horrible situations last week: playing for nothing because Lapenti retired AND at some moment the ATP saying you go to QF because they couldn't find the player who won the group. Later the player showed up but for at least one or two hours, Ferrero was going to play QF).. He wasn't happy passing like that!. And he said it in public. And, at least, he was going througth QF according to the ORIGINAL rules.
That's my critic to Blake.
And I'm letting aside his possition as VP

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 03:09 PM
Wasn't Hewitt quoted (in of the the many articles we've seen this week) as saying that all the players in the locker room were talking about how the only way for Korolev to go through was if JMDP retired against Blake? I got the impression from what he was saying that many of the players understood how it worked.

Yes, he said that.

kapranos
03-03-2007, 03:10 PM
He KNEW the decision was cheating and he supported it.

He's a cheater. Stop making excuses BLAKE fans.

lau
03-03-2007, 03:17 PM
Everyone seem to agree, but I´m not so sure any tennis player (or sportsman) would accept the rules are bended to his/her benefit...
Maybe I´m too naive :p :o

Neely
03-03-2007, 03:26 PM
Err, no, people demand he didn't support the decision, not that he surrenders the QF spot.
Not supporting the decision means what exactly, only stating this verbally (yes, he supported the decision in statements)? So it would have been fine and good enough for him to say "it is a bad decision, I don't support it" and to play the QF?


Blake is on the Players Council, so as VP he should know all the rules that they were going to use for this hideous format. The right decision under the circumstances within the rules was reached, but it should have never come down to this and taken so much time. Just makes a joke of the sport.
Everything right, still it was not Blake who is primarly responsable that we had confusion about whether Korolev or Blake reached the final, that for one time it was Blake, then again it was Korolev. Or is Blake who made the call and announced it was him to reach the QF at some stage?

kapranos
03-03-2007, 03:29 PM
Not supporting the decision means what exactly, only stating this verbally (yes, he supported the decision in statements)? So it would have been fine and good enough for him to say "it is a bad decision, I don't support it" and to play the QF?

Okay, the situation is simple. De Villiers cheated (went against the RULE), Blake verbally supported the decision of going AGAINST the RULE. So that makes Blake a cheater.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 03:32 PM
Everything right, still it was not Blake who is primarly responsable that we had confusion about whether Korolev or Blake reached the final, that for one time it was Blake, then again it was Korolev. Or is Blake who made the call and announced it was him to reach the QF at some stage?

Well as Hewitt said many of the players in the locker room knew how Korolev would qualify under what reasons, but the Vice President doesn't know?

What do you make of the comments saying it was a "commonsense" decision, when they made the initial decision to reverse it in his favour. This was gracious as well. He still feels he should have gone through. “What I thought was that a common-sense overrule took place. But if we have to go by the letter of the law, I’m okay with that.”

Neely
03-03-2007, 03:32 PM
Everyone seem to agree, but I´m not so sure any tennis player (or sportsman) would accept the rules are bended to his/her benefit...
Maybe I´m too naive :p :o
Not every maybe :p but as I tried to say, most athletes, most people in general, don't ask for the eligibility of a decision if they gain an advantage from it and if they see a good chance getting away with it.

World Beater
03-03-2007, 03:33 PM
You think players like Nalbandian, Henman and Blake are so concerned about the money at this stage of their career?? :haha: :haha:
Do you know how much money these guys earn only for publicity??

doesnt have to be money, does it? Pete didnt feel any less greedy with the slams after winning a 5 or 6 of them did he? or Federer?

Maybe james is like that with MM tourneys? :) Anyways, you underestimate how greedy one is when you earn that much money. Sharapova said she isnt content with all the money she has. There may be mens tennis players who feel the same way.

I do agree that James position on the atp tour council has made the whole situation worse.

Richard_from_Cal
03-03-2007, 03:36 PM
I'm not angry against Mr. Blake, ...I just want to know why...and the real reason why, person or persons unknown have conspired?? or planned to so radically change the game I love.

World Beater
03-03-2007, 03:42 PM
When someone says they never argue or curse at line officials. Then I gave an example where this was not the case. The problem with that, is exactly what?

I am far from a fan of Edberg, but he didn't act up on court as an adult. This is the tactic, oh someone else does it, so it must be OK.

As for Blake, well of course you missed the whole Ferrero situation and farce in Buenos Aires then? Yes, he is lacking cash at the moment.

Two things:

1) Every player has argued with the refs, the linesmen etc at some point in their careers. Just depends on the frequency. All i was saying is if you wanted to prove that james was really a FAKE, you could have done better.

2) I dont believe in the classiness of many atp tour professionals. I think most of them are polite well mannered individuals but when they are put in comprising positions, almost everyone acts in their own self interest. Thats why im saying that what blake did doesnt surprise me one bit. I am not saying what he did was right but i think people are wrong if they think many other players wouldnt have reacted similarly.

Neely
03-03-2007, 03:43 PM
Well as Hewitt said many of the players in the locker room knew how Korolev would qualify under what reasons, but the Vice President doesn't know?

What do you make of the comments saying it was a "commonsense" decision, when they made the initial decision to reverse it in his favour. This was gracious as well. He still feels he should have gone through. “What I thought was that a common-sense overrule took place. But if we have to go by the letter of the law, I’m okay with that.”
The point I'm making, again, is that it was not Blake who decided who advanced.

That it is wrong to change the rule, that everybody should be treated the same, that de Villers is an idiot, that Blake could have been better informed etc. etc. blablabla, I already agreed on that.

gulzhan
03-03-2007, 03:47 PM
The point I'm making, again, is that it was not Blake who decided who advanced.

That it is wrong to change the rule, that everybody should be treated the same, that de Villers is an idiot, that Blake could have been better informated etc. etc., I already agreed on that.

all you have left is to agree that blake should not have commented that the decision for him to advance was right... he could have had his mouth shut, not to mention he could and have critisized the decision in first place... as a players' rep :o

Rosa Luxembourg
03-03-2007, 03:48 PM
Only lying or completely delusional fans would still defend Blake.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 03:52 PM
Two things:

1) Every player has argued with the refs, the linesmen etc at some point in their careers. Just depends on the frequency. All i was saying is if you wanted to prove that james was really a FAKE, you could have done better.

No shit, but as I have said so many times. Blake is media savvy so of course he is going to use that to his advantage and good for him. It's not what I prefer personally, if someone is a jerk and then be a jerk.

2) I dont believe in the classiness of many atp tour professionals. I think most of them are polite well mannered individuals but when they are put in comprising positions, almost everyone acts in their own self interest. Thats why im saying that what blake did doesnt surprise me one bit. I am not saying what he did was right but i think people are wrong if they think many other players wouldnt have reacted similarly

Well Hewitt was honest enough to say he would and Ferrero proved otherwise in Buenos Aires. It's not about others, it's about the specific situation and when Blake comes out and says it was commonsense to reverse the decision, then it doesn't deserve respect.

gulzhan
03-03-2007, 03:55 PM
Only lying or completely delusional fans would still defend Blake.

:worship:

Neely
03-03-2007, 03:55 PM
all you have left is to agree that blake should not have commented that the decision for him to advance was right... he could have had his mouth shut, not to mention he could and have critisized the decision in first place... as a players' rep :o
Sure, I never said otherwise about this. My arguments were different.

World Beater
03-03-2007, 04:09 PM
No shit, but as I have said so many times. Blake is media savvy so of course he is going to use that to his advantage and good for him. It's not what I prefer personally, if someone is a jerk and then be a jerk.



Well Hewitt was honest enough to say he would and Ferrero proved otherwise in Buenos Aires. It's not about others, it's about the specific situation and when Blake comes out and says it was commonsense to reverse the decision, then it doesn't deserve respect.

i see you misunderstood me. I am not trying to defend blake but more am surprised with posters here who think what blake did was contrary to his character. Hewitt may have done better IF in the same situation, but he wasnt in the situation, so its speculation.

nobama
03-03-2007, 04:14 PM
No shit, but as I have said so many times. Blake is media savvy so of course he is going to use that to his advantage and good for him. It's not what I prefer personally, if someone is a jerk and then be a jerk.



Well Hewitt was honest enough to say he would and Ferrero proved otherwise in Buenos Aires. It's not about others, it's about the specific situation and when Blake comes out and says it was commonsense to reverse the decision, then it doesn't deserve respect.Yes but Hewitt wasn't in that position. Of course he's not going to come out and say 'yes I would have done exactly what Blake did'. I don't agree with what Blake did, but he's human and made an error in judgement. No need to tar and feather the guy for it.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 04:14 PM
i see you misunderstood me. I am not trying to defend blake but more am surprised with posters here who think what blake did was contrary to his character. Hewitt may have done better IF in the same situation, but he wasnt in the situation, so its speculation.

Hewitt came and out said he'd have done the same thing as Blake if he was in that situation. Most people are going to take something for nothing.

At the same time if someone is supposed to be Mr Nice Guy and all for sportsmanship, then as has been said before. He'd have criticised the reversal decision or not said anything, as to whether he should have refused the spot when offered, well see last sentence of above paragraph.

Jogy
03-03-2007, 04:22 PM
Funny that a player like Blake who only does little things wrong with words is getting the hate now and fucking assholes like Canas, Puerta (tested positive TWO TIMES THIS ASSHOLE!!!), Beck and many other who do real cheating by deeds behind closed door taking injections and medicaments, cheat over fellow players, they get the pityness and support and their idiot fans wants to come them back :haha: a real disgust :o

If the tour had only guy like Blake and not more bad, it would be great. Blake does a lot of things good.

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 04:29 PM
Only lying or completely delusional fans would still defend Blake.

Or completely ignorant, hateful, spiteful people would make it seem like James is such a horrible person when probably 90% of the people condemning Blake would've done the same thing.

kapranos
03-03-2007, 04:29 PM
Funny that a player like Blake who only does little things wrong with words is getting the hate now and fucking assholes like Canas, Puerta (tested positive TWO TIMES THIS ASSHOLE!!!), Beck and many other who do real cheating by deeds behind closed door taking injections and medicaments, cheat over fellow players, they get the pityness and support and their idiot fans wants to come them back :haha: a real disgust :o

If the tour had only guy like Blake and not more bad, it would be great. Blake does a lot of things good.

Please tell me you're kidding. The cheating Argentinians are the most hated tennis players.

kapranos
03-03-2007, 04:29 PM
Or completely ignorant, hateful, spiteful people would make it seem like James is such a horrible person when probably 90% of the people condemning Blake would've done the same thing.

WHO SAID HE IS A HORRIBLE PERSON. He was wrong, that's different.

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 04:29 PM
Funny that a player like Blake who only does little things wrong with words is getting the hate now and fucking assholes like Canas, Puerta (tested positive TWO TIMES THIS ASSHOLE!!!), Beck and many other who do real cheating by deeds behind closed door taking injections and medicaments, cheat over fellow players, they get the pityness and support and their idiot fans wants to come them back :haha: a real disgust :o

If the tour had only guy like Blake and not more bad, it would be great. Blake does a lot of things good.

Exactly my point :worship:

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 04:30 PM
WHO SAID HE IS A HORRIBLE PERSON. He was wrong, that's different.

I said...."make it seem" like he was a horrible person

kapranos
03-03-2007, 04:34 PM
I said...."make it seem" like he was a horrible person

No one makes him seem like a horrible person. We don't have the same definition of horrible.

Blake was wrong and people called him on it. That's all. Now Blake fans act like babies because they can't stand having their perfect little boy loved by everyone.

GlennMirnyi
03-03-2007, 04:36 PM
Exactly my point :worship:

You must be pretty :cuckoo: to support anything Jogy says.

Jogy
03-03-2007, 04:36 PM
Or completely ignorant, hateful, spiteful people would make it seem like James is such a horrible person when probably 90% of the people condemning Blake would've done the same thing.
yes what a joke
you have media reporters whole day
you just come from court, everbody holds a microphone to you at any time
you make a little wrong comment with words only without time to think about it proper and they do as if Blake killed other player.


Please tell me you're kidding. The cheating Argentinians are the most hated tennis players.
I am not kidding. But funny that some of same people who dislike ATP or head of ATP or somebody for a little comment trust in ATP and court and rules as soon as Canas gets the decision that ignores his positive test because he got a 500000$ lawyer to find him a flaw in system to reduce his ban for a reason that is explainable to the fans.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 04:38 PM
I am not kidding. But funny that some of same people who dislike ATP or head of ATP or somebody for a little comment trust in ATP and court and rules as soon as Canas gets the decision that ignores his positive test because he got a 500000$ lawyer to find him a flaw in system to reduce his ban for a reason that is explainable to the fans.

Hahahahahahahahaha. You now know the lawyers costs? Where did you find this information out?

This thread is about Blake and not Cañas. It's not hard to work out Blake didn't handle this very well considering the regard he was held in by his peers to be elected Vice President of their union and he gets criticised for it. That's it, nothing more and nothing less.

Jogy
03-03-2007, 04:40 PM
Or completely ignorant, hateful, spiteful people would make it seem like James is such a horrible person when probably 90% of the people condemning Blake would've done the same thing.
what do you expecting from somebody like a name Rosa Luxemburg, complete mess, zero knowleding about anything

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 04:42 PM
You must be pretty :cuckoo: to support anything Jogy says.

Personal attacks in a debate thread is so juvenile.... You should respect a person's right to agree with whoever they want in a discussion forum.

GlennMirnyi
03-03-2007, 04:45 PM
Personal attacks in a debate thread is so juvenile.... You should respect a person's right to agree with whoever they want in a discussion forum.

You don't post here often, right? :rolleyes: If you knew this guy's opinions, you would never agree with him.

Jogy
03-03-2007, 04:45 PM
Hahahahahahahahaha. You now know the lawyers costs? Where did you find this information out?
any price I put
he got the help, court gave him right and people accept it because they get what they want, it is always like that

if other player does it, then only a little word can be enough to do like he killed Korolev in tournament and is worst ever

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 04:49 PM
No one makes him seem like a horrible person. We don't have the same definition of horrible.

Blake was wrong and people called him on it. That's all. Now Blake fans act like babies because they can't stand having their perfect little boy NOT loved by everyone.

Maybe you haven't read some of the things people have been saying about Blake. That he's a disgrace, and should be "ashamed". Neither of which are true.

GlennMirnyi
03-03-2007, 04:50 PM
No, Blake should be proud of accepting a change of rules mid-tournament. Yeah, we all should be proud of something like that.

Jogy
03-03-2007, 04:52 PM
You don't post here often, right? :rolleyes: If you knew this guy's opinions, you would never agree with him.
I know your opinions about tennis, and I see you have zero knowledging about even if you don't troll and that is enough for me to know about you

Julio1974
03-03-2007, 04:57 PM
Maybe you haven't read some of the things people have been saying about Blake. That he's a disgrace, and should be "ashamed". Neither of which are true.

I like Blake too. I don't care too much about his nice-guy image, but I do enjoy his game. However, he made a mistake and I don't know why you can't admit it. Although I agree the ATP is to blame, and I might agree that most players would not have rejected the possibility of playing in the QF (although Ferrero did it in BsAs), I think Blake shouldn't have said what he said. He made a mistake. That's all. People are not perfect and make mistakes.

Apart from this, I don't see the need to compare him with Cañas. If you cannot distinguish between negligence and intent, it's your problem. But the court did it and you should study the facts of the case before giving your unfounded opinion on it.

tangerine_dream
03-03-2007, 04:58 PM
Good to see this thread filled up by the usual small group of vocal Blake haters who have been waiting for this moment to jump all over him for doing nothing more than being a tad too political by taking De Villain's side without really knowing what was going on in the first place. and then De Villain rewards Blake by sending him out to lions.

"After hearing all the reasons...I completely understand the rule," said Blake. "Evgeny deserves to be in the quarter-finals.

Wow, what a jerk. Rock on, James. :cool:

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 05:00 PM
I like Blake too. I don't care too much about his nice-guy image, but I do enjoy his game. However, he made a mistake and I don't know why you can't admit it. Although I agree the ATP is to blame, and I might agree that most players would not have rejected the possibility of playing in the QF (although Ferrero did it in BsAs), I think Blake shouldn't have said what he said. He made a mistake. That's all. People are not perfect and make mistakes.

Apart from this, I don't see the need to compare him with Cañas. If you cannot distinguish between negligence and intent, it's your problem. But the court did it and you should study the facts of the case before giving your unfounded opinion on it.

I never said I didn't think he was wrong, but I just think it's wrong how people are jumping down his throat as if he committed a crime or was on steroids or something.

GlennMirnyi
03-03-2007, 05:01 PM
I know your opinions about tennis, and I see you have zero knowledging about even if you don't troll and that is enough for me to know about you

No, I'm not like you.

By the way, you're sure very reasonable about doping players, even though you know shit about what happened with them.

Julio1974
03-03-2007, 05:03 PM
I know your opinions about tennis, and I see you have zero knowledging about even if you don't troll and that is enough for me to know about you

Although I don't agree with him on many issues, he always justifies his opinion. He's not repeaiting himself like an idiot saying always the same thing like you, obsessed with Cañas. If you and mtw were the only people I knew from Poland, I would really think that country is doomed.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 05:03 PM
any price I put
he got the help, court gave him right and people accept it because they get what they want, it is always like that

if other player does it, then only a little word can be enough to do like he killed Korolev in tournament and is worst ever

Considering the CAS is an independent court and the first one wasn't cause it was done internally are you aware of that these cases weren't heard in the same court and they weren't even in the same country. If you actually bothered to read the transcript, they had a thing called evidence which was proven to be correct.

kapranos, has already explained it clearly. Blake showed bad judgement in how he handled this particular case and gets criticised, as should anyone else in this situation

nobama
03-03-2007, 05:04 PM
Good to see this thread filled up by the usual small group of vocal Blake haters who have been waiting for this moment to jump all over him for doing nothing more than being a tad too political by taking De Villain's side without really knowing what was going on in the first place. and then De Villain rewards Blake by sending him out to lions.

"After hearing all the reasons...I completely understand the rule," said Blake. "Evgeny deserves to be in the quarter-finals.

Wow, what a jerk. Rock on, James. :cool:
It's typical. Any player who is perceived as a nice guy and then *gasp* does something maybe not so nice gets thrown to the wolves.

GlennMirnyi
03-03-2007, 05:05 PM
Although I don't agree with him on many issues, he always justifies his opinion. He's not repeaiting himself like an idiot saying always the same thing like you, obsessed with Cañas. If you and mtw were the only people I knew from Poland, I would really think that country is doomed.

'Cause all Argies are dopers, right? :rolleyes: :retard:

jocaputs
03-03-2007, 05:09 PM
Blake is one of the many victims of mr.Disney's evil plots:awww:


nice flaming boys:cool:

Jogy
03-03-2007, 05:09 PM
He's not repeaiting himself like an idiot saying always the same thing like you, obsessed with Cañas.
Why I am going on with dopers? because I hate them and because they do the real cheating and demage for the game!
And not the player who make one small comment or who throw a racket or who insult a umpire which is drawing the crowds of haters on the forum here

"After hearing all the reasons...I completely understand the rule," said Blake. "Evgeny deserves to be in the quarter-finals.

Wow, what a jerk. Rock on, James. :cool:
Blake sayed very wrong things again, he says that Evgeny deserves to be in the final, big jerk! :)

:yeah:

User id 7816
03-03-2007, 05:11 PM
Everything right, still it was not Blake who is primarly responsable that we had confusion about whether Korolev or Blake reached the final, that for one time it was Blake, then again it was Korolev. Or is Blake who made the call and announced it was him to reach the QF at some stage?
It seems that the whole problem is one should not accept this kind of instant change of rules just because he believes it was 'the right decision' and he was supposedly 'deserving' to go through, as Blake thought? As I gather it, Blake is screwed by the retirement but the rules of this thing say so. I may be really naive, but I dont know why it should be so hard to show some honour and accept you got screwed by the ridiculous format (as someone said the irony that it's someone who supported RR is perfect) and thats it.
Dont think thats comparable to taking a wrong line call too cause Blake must have had time to think a bit. I cant believe what a mess they have created thanx to RR, and that's only the technical part of it, without considering its completely against the nature of the game...:rolleyes:

GlennMirnyi
03-03-2007, 05:13 PM
Why I am going on with dopers? because I hate them and because they do the real cheating and demage for the game!
And not the player who make one small comment or who throw a racket or who insult a umpire which is drawing the crowds of haters on the forum here


Blake sayed very wrong things again, he says that Evgeny deserves to be in the final, big jerk! :)

:yeah:

Most top players in every sport take doping. Hate 'em all.

Jogy
03-03-2007, 05:21 PM
Most top players in every sport take doping. Hate 'em all.
some test positive, some never
what is it, bad luck that one tests postive two times in short time and other never? Usual conspiracy because people want to get you? I had it all already from the defenders of this misdeeds.

GlennMirnyi
03-03-2007, 05:24 PM
:retard:

I'm saying that practically all players take doping. Some are caught, some are not. The way you show your opinions, you don't care about it, as long as they are not taken. That's hypocrisy.

my0118
03-03-2007, 05:24 PM
Okay we've got to deduce why people are angry about Blake.

Mr. Disney fished Blake for sucking up his ass - Disney's fault.
Del Potro's retirement made Disney fished Blake for suckup - Del potro's fault.
Del Potro's respiration problem was the reason of his retiring - Las Vegas damn air's fault.
Despite his retirement for damn Las Vegas air, he had the winning against Korolev who let Del Potro win - Korolev's fault.
Even though Korolev had a slightest chace to go through, Blake generously gave him a victory to collect 20 points, which turned out to be the most crucial thing - Blake's fault.

WTF did he lost to Korolev in the first place??? C'mon!! he was No.1 seed!!
Although Del Potro and Korolev are the upcoming yongguns, Blake was 'the' favourite. He was not like nalbandian's situation last week.
Therefore all we get is Blake's fault.

Anyway all my conclusion is he should've NOT lost to Korolev .

Jogy
03-03-2007, 05:34 PM
I'm saying that practically all players take doping. Some are caught, some are not. The way you show your opinions, you don't care about it, as long as they are not taken. That's hypocrisy.
wrong, hypocrisy is what many are doing. If you know a player tested positive, not only one time, but second time was catched doing it, and then you support him and believe everything they say to accuse him and on other side then, there is a player like Blake who only does a little thing with words wrong, a player who smashed rackets, a player who makes a fist pump or a player that swears and think THAT is bad already while accusing the doping cheater. That is hypocrisy in my eyes.

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 05:36 PM
:retard:

I'm saying that practically all players take doping. Some are caught, some are not. The way you show your opinions, you don't care about it, as long as they are not taken. That's hypocrisy.

I don't think practically all players are doping, I think there are signs that MAY point to doping. Like suspiscious withdrawals from tournaments, frequent ligament and tendon injuries, repeat extended breaks from the tour only to come back fit as a button, and probably the most obvious is significant change in body mass over a short period of time. Although all of these things IMO are just causes for speculation, nothing is concrete.

mtw
03-03-2007, 05:40 PM
It is the RR which is the problem. Blake did have a better games differencial than anyone in the group and still couldnt get throught. He still took it like a gentleman in the interview I heard and said Korolev deserved his spot.

Both of them would have been injustified no matter ATPs decision. So why all anger against poor Blake?

I like Blake. I think, that he is likeable and plays quite well. I don't understand, what's the matter. Some people gather signs and prepare a petition. I don't know. And this petition is prepared by a man, who was called once by an other member of this forum: The Lord of the Idiots. I don't understand, what is going on. A revolution or rebellion?

GlennMirnyi
03-03-2007, 05:40 PM
wrong, hypocrisy is what many are doing. If you know a player tested positive, not only one time, but second time was catched doing it, and then you support him and believe everything they say to accuse him and on other side then, there is a player like Blake who only does a little thing with words wrong, a player who smashed rackets, a player who makes a fist pump or a player that swears and think THAT is bad already while accusing the doping cheater. That is hypocrisy in my eyes.

All are wrong. Hypocrisy is condemning some but not all of those actions.

I don't think practically all players are doping, I think there are signs that MAY point to doping. Like suspiscious withdrawals from tournaments, frequent ligament and tendon injuries, repeat extended breaks from the tour only to come back fit as a button, and probably the most obvious is significant change in body mass over a short period of time. Although all of these things IMO are just causes for speculation, nothing is concrete.

Bolettieri says in all his speeches that practically all top players dope. If it were a lie, he'd have already been sued by all players.

Julio1974
03-03-2007, 05:45 PM
I like Blake. I think, that he is likeable and plays quite well. I don't understand, what's the matter. Some people gather signs and prepare a petition. I don't know. And this petition is prepared by a man, who was called once by an other member of this forum: The Lord of the Idiots. I don't understand, what is going on. A revolution or rebellion?

The petition has nothing to do with Blake. It's about RR. But I wouldn't be surprised to learn that you love RR.

ServeAlready81
03-03-2007, 06:03 PM
Bolettieri says in all his speeches that practically all top players dope. If it were a lie, he'd have already been sued by all players.

:eek: Not that I'm disputing what you're saying, but I'd love to see/hear one of these speeches..

mtw
03-03-2007, 06:07 PM
The petition has nothing to do with Blake. It's about RR. But I wouldn't be surprised to learn that you love RR.

Could You explain, why some representatives of Your Argentinian nation ( concrete one person Jay-Jay ) make such terrible confusion, because of that? I like Argentinians and all Your country very much, but this Jay - Jay is very strange. So called black sheep in nation. The system Round Robin is quite good. The best of the group will promote. Sometimes probably the difference in sets or gems can decide, who promotes. This system is really fair. You remember the group of David Nalbandian in 2006. He promoted thanks to difference of points. Sometimes a tennis player can have bad day and he can lose one match. It occurs to good players too. It was impossible in old system to promote. But in Round Robin system it is possible, because good players have second chance. Besides great Roger Federer does not like this system and he has said somewhere, that he will not play in this towns, where this system was introduced. And this is big chance for other players too. And for the present this system was not introduced in GS or MS tours. Only in some ATP tours ( 3 sets matches ). I agree, that in GS or MS tours it can be too exhausting for players.

tennischick
03-03-2007, 06:07 PM
my only problem with this lynching of Blake is that it doesn't take into account that the rules are new for EVERYONE, including the players. it's a new format with new rules -- perhaps James made an honest mistake. where is the evidence that he deliberately cheated? I don't see it.

GlennMirnyi
03-03-2007, 06:09 PM
Could You explain, why some representatives of Your Argentinian nation ( concrete one person Jay-Jay ) make such terrible confusion, because of that? I like Argentinians and all Your country very much, but this Jay - Jay is very strange. So called black sheep in nation. The system Round Robin is quite good. The best of the group will promote. Sometimes probably the difference in sets or gems can decide, who promotes. This system is really fair. You remember the group of David Nalbandian in 2006. He promoted thanks to difference of points. Sometimes a tennis player can have bad day and he can lose one match. It occurs to good players too. It was impossible in old system to promote. But in Round Robin system it is possible, because good players have second chance. Besides great Roger Federer does not like this system and he has said somewhere, that he will not play in this towns, where this system was introduced. And this is big chance for other players too. And for the present this system was not introduced in GS or MS tours. Only in some ATP tours ( 3 sets matches ). I agree, that in GS or MS tours it can be too exhausting for players.

He is right. RR is a disgrace for tennis. If you like it, you don't like or care about the sport. Tennis has always been knock-out and should remain like that.

Johnny Groove
03-03-2007, 06:12 PM
Bolettieri says in all his speeches that practically all top players dope. If it were a lie, he'd have already been sued by all players.

bolettieri is enough of a joke as it is. no one needs to sue the old man for his money to make it even more painfully obvious.

Galathea
03-03-2007, 06:45 PM
Could You explain, why some representatives of Your Argentinian nation ( concrete one person Jay-Jay ) make such terrible confusion, because of that? I like Argentinians and all Your country very much, but this Jay - Jay is very strange. So called black sheep in nation. The system Round Robin is quite good. The best of the group will promote. Sometimes probably the difference in sets or gems can decide, who promotes. This system is really fair. You remember the group of David Nalbandian in 2006. He promoted thanks to difference of points. Sometimes a tennis player can have bad day and he can lose one match. It occurs to good players too. It was impossible in old system to promote. But in Round Robin system it is possible, because good players have second chance. Besides great Roger Federer does not like this system and he has said somewhere, that he will not play in this towns, where this system was introduced. And this is big chance for other players too. And for the present this system was not introduced in GS or MS tours. Only in some ATP tours ( 3 sets matches ). I agree, that in GS or MS tours it can be too exhausting for players.

There's not point of comparison between what happened at the MC 2006 (or any other MC from the past) with Las Vegas 2007. Here: THE RULES WERE CHANGED SPECIFICALLY TO LET BLAKE PASS. In Nalbo's case, MC 2006, those rules were made for everyone (Roddick or Ljubo too) before the tournament and all of them accepted the reglamentation.
Here, just because Blake was the favorite, Mr Disney CHANGED THE RULES to make BLAKE PASS: I was a modification, in the middle of the tournament, because the favorite was out. That rule was only for him, not Safin, Not Hewitt, etc and let out a player that had the right to be in QF: Korolev was the winner of that group by the rules known and accepted by all, Blake included. Stupid rules? Well, change it AFTER the tournament, not in the middle and because it suits the ATP and the $$$$.
Not even near the same case. Like is not even near Ferrero's case (past week)
The problem here is how Mr Disney and Blake acted in this specific case.
I don't think anyone here is saying the RR rules are right. They're saying they're for everyone Blake, Korolev, John Doe or Federer and can't be changed in the middle

Julio1974
03-03-2007, 06:48 PM
Could You explain, why some representatives of Your Argentinian nation ( concrete one person Jay-Jay ) make such terrible confusion, because of that? I like Argentinians and all Your country very much, but this Jay - Jay is very strange. So called black sheep in nation. The system Round Robin is quite good. The best of the group will promote. Sometimes probably the difference in sets or gems can decide, who promotes. This system is really fair. You remember the group of David Nalbandian in 2006. He promoted thanks to difference of points. Sometimes a tennis player can have bad day and he can lose one match. It occurs to good players too. It was impossible in old system to promote. But in Round Robin system it is possible, because good players have second chance. Besides great Roger Federer does not like this system and he has said somewhere, that he will not play in this towns, where this system was introduced. And this is big chance for other players too. And for the present this system was not introduced in GS or MS tours. Only in some ATP tours ( 3 sets matches ). I agree, that in GS or MS tours it can be too exhausting for players.

I don't know what your problem is with Jay Jay and I don't care. But his opinion on RR is shared by 99% of posters here (including me) so don't blame only him.

nobama
03-03-2007, 06:48 PM
bolettieri is enough of a joke as it is. no one needs to sue the old man for his money to make it even more painfully obvious.Didn't you know if Bolettieri says it that makes it so?

Tennis Fool
03-03-2007, 07:11 PM
Only lying or completely delusional fans would still defend Blake.

:rolleyes: I'm not even a fan of Blake.

World Beater
03-03-2007, 07:23 PM
some test positive, some never
what is it, bad luck that one tests postive two times in short time and other never? Usual conspiracy because people want to get you? I had it all already from the defenders of this misdeeds.

im waiting for federer to test positive seeing as how its luck to win 10 slams in a short time.

Tennis Fool
03-03-2007, 07:24 PM
my only problem with this lynching of Blake is that it doesn't take into account that the rules are new for EVERYONE, including the players. it's a new format with new rules -- perhaps James made an honest mistake. where is the evidence that he deliberately cheated? I don't see it.

Hi Chick,

Nice to see you back :D

Basically the Blake haters wanted him to tell off Mr. Disney and not play at all. I guess he should have gone against the head of the ATP, which would have been a subordinate act. :rolleyes:

Basically MTF is full of bored fans. No one will remember this in a year.

GlennMirnyi
03-03-2007, 08:17 PM
bolettieri is enough of a joke as it is. no one needs to sue the old man for his money to make it even more painfully obvious.

Didn't you know if Bolettieri says it that makes it so?

If nobody sued him yet, nobody has evidence it's a lie, so you can't simply say "he's a joke" and call him liar outta nowhere.

blueskye
03-03-2007, 08:55 PM
Everyone makes misstakes, nobody is perfect this including Blake. Is it because he is potrayed as a smart, intelligent guy who has overcome difficulties that people feel it is necessary to jump all over him for every little thing he does..I really don't get it.. :scratch:

dylan24
03-04-2007, 06:59 AM
because jblock sucks c##k

scoobs
03-04-2007, 09:43 AM
I don't think Blake is responsible for the situation that arose.

What I find surprising is that as Vice President of the ATP Player Council he didn't know the rules that have been readily available for months and are perfectly decipherable.

What I find disappointing is, that when confusion arose, rather than protecting the interests of a young kid making his way up the rankings, as a Vice President of the ATP Player Council *should* do, he consciously or unconsciously put his own interests first.

He's only human, we all make mistakes. Fair enough. And I don't propose he should be chased through the town by a baying mob wielding pitchforks and burning torches.

I just find it a bit disappointing. He had the chance to *be* the nice guy everyone says he is and I think he blew it, really.

mtw
03-04-2007, 01:30 PM
There's not point of comparison between what happened at the MC 2006 (or any other MC from the past) with Las Vegas 2007. Here: THE RULES WERE CHANGED SPECIFICALLY TO LET BLAKE PASS. In Nalbo's case, MC 2006, those rules were made for everyone (Roddick or Ljubo too) before the tournament and all of them accepted the reglamentation.
Here, just because Blake was the favorite, Mr Disney CHANGED THE RULES to make BLAKE PASS: I was a modification, in the middle of the tournament, because the favorite was out. That rule was only for him, not Safin, Not Hewitt, etc and let out a player that had the right to be in QF: Korolev was the winner of that group by the rules known and accepted by all, Blake included. Stupid rules? Well, change it AFTER the tournament, not in the middle and because it suits the ATP and the $$$$.
Not even near the same case. Like is not even near Ferrero's case (past week)
The problem here is how Mr Disney and Blake acted in this specific case.
I don't think anyone here is saying the RR rules are right. They're saying they're for everyone Blake, Korolev, John Doe or Federer and can't be changed in the middle

Round Robin's rules are really right and fair. Normally the leader of group will promote. It is used in soccer ( for a long time ) in Champions league and people have no problem with it. These rules are really good and just. I didn't see these mentioned tennis matches. I can not say nothing about it. Why did leader of the group fall off? Were the rules another, than rules during Round Robin's matches in Shanghai 2006? The rule of more advantageous relation of gems were used, if amount the sets was identical there. And it was quite good. I think, that You exaggerate a little. Did Blake cheat? For instance he won less gems and promoted? I don't understand, what's the matter.
This system is really just, if it is introduced in right way.
You know, I don't like USA very too, because of their wrong politics and this state do not suit me. But Blake seemed quite cool.

Andre'sNo1Fan
03-04-2007, 01:36 PM
im waiting for federer to test positive seeing as how its luck to win 10 slams in a short time.
Robots don't need to take anything, just an oil every now and again.

mtw
03-04-2007, 01:38 PM
He is right. RR is a disgrace for tennis. If you like it, you don't like or care about the sport. Tennis has always been knock-out and should remain like that.

Knock-out? Knock-out's rules are not fair too. We should give grace. If this system would be introduced properly to tennis, it would be great for tennisplayers too. It looked quite well in Shanghai. Probably tennisplayers would receive much money and it is really good for tennisplayers, who play well in principle, but have bad days from time to time.
It is not very beneficial for organizers , because of financial things. But this rule is really fair.

Kalliopeia
03-04-2007, 03:44 PM
Round Robin's rules are really right and fair. Normally the leader of group will promote. It is used in soccer ( for a long time ) in Champions league and people have no problem with it. These rules are really good and just. I didn't see these mentioned tennis matches. I can not say nothing about it. Why did leader of the group fall off? Were the rules another, than rules during Round Robin's matches in Shanghai 2006? The rule of more advantageous relation of gems were used, if amount the sets was identical there. And it was quite good. I think, that You exaggerate a little. Did Blake cheat? For instance he won less gems and promoted? I don't understand, what's the matter.
This system is really just, if it is introduced in right way.
You know, I don't like USA very too, because of their wrong politics and this state do not suit me. But Blake seemed quite cool.

1. This is not soccer. This is tennis. What works in soccer is not necessarily going to work in tennis. Round robin does not work in tennis.

2. The "right and fair" rules were arbitrarily changed in order to advance the top player. According to the rules, Blake did not advance. The head of the ATP decided that wasn't acceptable, so he just issued a ruling putting Blake through anyway. Thankfully, this wasn't allowed to stand. Regardless of how anyone feels about the rules, they can't be changed on a whim in the middle of a tournament to get the result they wanted. Blake did not cheat, but he did try to justify this blatant favoritism. I'm not sure what it is about this that you don't understand.

3. How you feel about the USA is completely irrelevant.

mtw
03-04-2007, 05:15 PM
1. This is not soccer. This is tennis. What works in soccer is not necessarily going to work in tennis. Round robin does not work in tennis.

2. The "right and fair" rules were arbitrarily changed in order to advance the top player. According to the rules, Blake did not advance. The head of the ATP decided that wasn't acceptable, so he just issued a ruling putting Blake through anyway. Thankfully, this wasn't allowed to stand. Regardless of how anyone feels about the rules, they can't be changed on a whim in the middle of a tournament to get the result they wanted. Blake did not cheat, but he did try to justify this blatant favoritism. I'm not sure what it is about this that you don't understand.



1. Round Robin rules will work out in tennis very good. I am sure in 100 %. This is very good system.
2. I see, that you completely don't understand rules of this system, because it is complicated. I am afraid, that your nation does never catch the rules of this one. But this is not my problem. This system does not promote top 10 players. It would not be fair. This system promotes the best player of a group. The best player of the group has not to be one of the top 10 player. Of course, if Roger will play in a group, then effect is known. But the case is open by other players.

Action Jackson
03-04-2007, 05:21 PM
1. Round Robin rules will work out in tennis very good. I am sure in 100 %. This is very good system.
2. I see, that you completely don't understand rules of this system, because it is complicated. I am afraid, that your nation does never catch the rules of this one. But this is not my problem. This system does not promote top 10 players. It would not be fair. This system promotes the best player of a group. The best player of the group has not to be one of the top 10 player. Of course, if Roger will play in a group, then effect is known. But the case is open by other players.

http://www.solopassion.com/files/trolls.png

Jlee
03-04-2007, 05:27 PM
I don't think Blake is responsible for the situation that arose.

What I find surprising is that as Vice President of the ATP Player Council he didn't know the rules that have been readily available for months and are perfectly decipherable.

What I find disappointing is, that when confusion arose, rather than protecting the interests of a young kid making his way up the rankings, as a Vice President of the ATP Player Council *should* do, he consciously or unconsciously put his own interests first.

He's only human, we all make mistakes. Fair enough. And I don't propose he should be chased through the town by a baying mob wielding pitchforks and burning torches.

I just find it a bit disappointing. He had the chance to *be* the nice guy everyone says he is and I think he blew it, really.

I agree, he definitely should have known the rules going into the tournament.

Can you tell me how he influenced any decision that put his interests first? Are you suggesting that he did that by accepting the ATP's decision initially? Or do you have other information of him influencing it?

The person who blew it was Mr. Disney. When someone above a player, who "designed" RR, steps down and makes a decision concerning a rule then player simply accepts it. It was in no way Blake's fault that the ridiculous decision to change a rule mid tournament was made. That's the way I look at it :shrug:

I'm not saying that changing the rule was a good decision, I'm just confused about the attack on Blake.

mtw
03-04-2007, 05:34 PM
There's not point of comparison between what happened at the MC 2006 (or any other MC from the past) with Las Vegas 2007. Here: THE RULES WERE CHANGED SPECIFICALLY TO LET BLAKE PASS. In Nalbo's case, MC 2006, those rules were made for everyone (Roddick or Ljubo too) before the tournament and all of them accepted the reglamentation.
Here, just because Blake was the favorite, Mr Disney CHANGED THE RULES to make BLAKE PASS: I was a modification, in the middle of the tournament, because the favorite was out. That rule was only for him, not Safin, Not Hewitt, etc and let out a player that had the right to be in QF: Korolev was the winner of that group by the rules known and accepted by all, Blake included. Stupid rules? Well, change it AFTER the tournament, not in the middle and because it suits the ATP and the $$$$.
Not even near the same case. Like is not even near Ferrero's case (past week)
The problem here is how Mr Disney and Blake acted in this specific case.
I don't think anyone here is saying the RR rules are right. They're saying they're for everyone Blake, Korolev, John Doe or Federer and can't be changed in the middle

Korolev advanced in Las Vegas in place of Blake. You see now, that this system is fair, as I mentioned. James Blake could not advance, because he did not finish the match ( It was not his blame. It was an injury of JM del Porto - it was unique, fate case ) and he losed in match against Korolev, as I suppose. It was a small misunderstanding of tennis authorities. But You see, that it was fixed very quickly. It is unique situation. Normally it occurs very rare and believe, that this system is quite fair.

amierin
03-04-2007, 06:09 PM
Blake thought it was a fair decision to violate the rules, making him go to quarters.

This is what burned me about his stance. He is the VP of the Player's Council and is supposed to be all for both the spirit and letter of the law as stated in the Rule Book.

Everyone knows singles players are among the most self centered people on the planet and that for many their first instinct would be to agree to what James did thus violating the rules. Juanqui, when faced with the same situation said no.

If he wanted to get away from his goody two shoes image this wasn't the way to do it.

Galathea
03-04-2007, 06:55 PM
1. Round Robin rules will work out in tennis very good. I am sure in 100 %. This is very good system.
2. I see, that you completely don't understand rules of this system, because it is complicated. I am afraid, that your nation does never catch the rules of this one. But this is not my problem. This system does not promote top 10 players. It would not be fair. This system promotes the best player of a group. The best player of the group has not to be one of the top 10 player. Of course, if Roger will play in a group, then effect is known. But the case is open by other players.

I agree about what someone answered you This is TENNIS. Meaning? Individual sport. The problem here is basically players retirement from matches. Not something common in soccer, without counting outside problems (like fans, etc) when was the last time a team couldn't end a match because they didn't have 7 players on court? Very, very weird case. Did you see the list of retirement from AO 2007? You can't compare an individual sport with a team sport.
Don't think about Las Vegas circus, think what happened in Bs As following the original rules: Ferrero's case in Bs As. Lapenti got injured and couldn't play, so Ferrero was going to play against someone from the qually (that didn't get to play before) BUT without having chance because the original player, Lapenti, was out !?!?! So fair thing, either that's a walk over and counts for Ferrero like a victory over Lapenti or in some way (they have to think about it) the new player takes the place of Lapenti and if Ferrero wins is the same that winning over Lapenti. Never playing and having no change before the match started just becuse the original rival was injured. What are we going to have? a black market for games, sets or retirements where a player could "talk" (:rolleyes: ) to a second player to not play and perjudicate a third player?

But here we're NOT discussing if RR is okay or crap. We're discussing about how the rules (stupid for me, good for you) were changed JUT to make Blake pass.
That was fixed later because the scandall that caused, but the intention of Mr Disnay and the reaction of Blake can't be fixed. (Blake still thinks that modificating the rules for him was ok)

Also, I'm in favor of the RR for the MC. Why? It's an ELITE tournament. The top 8 players from the year play to get a champion. It's not a normal tournament, there are not normal inscriptions: it's based in what those players did during a whole year. So, I see ok, not doing it like "you lost, you're out" because is an special tournament, so it's okay having a second chance. They can't play against each other (the logic thing) because it takes too much time. So two groups with that format and taking in consideration how someone won/lost (straigh sets or not; 6-1 or 7-6) is okay. Again, Because is an elite tournament.
But in normal tournaments, when what you have to do is complete a paper and with that you can play (or a qualy)? What's the sense of a second chance in that case?

scoobs
03-04-2007, 08:35 PM
I agree, he definitely should have known the rules going into the tournament.

Can you tell me how he influenced any decision that put his interests first? Are you suggesting that he did that by accepting the ATP's decision initially? Or do you have other information of him influencing it?

The person who blew it was Mr. Disney. When someone above a player, who "designed" RR, steps down and makes a decision concerning a rule then player simply accepts it. It was in no way Blake's fault that the ridiculous decision to change a rule mid tournament was made. That's the way I look at it :shrug:

I'm not saying that changing the rule was a good decision, I'm just confused about the attack on Blake.
I don't know if he influenced any decisions or not - the fact remains that we still don't know who got Mr Disney involved and why - and who else might have encouraged that course of action. I doubt we will ever know who instigated it. You have to give Blake the benefit of the doubt and assume he was not involved, IMO.

The reason I am disappointed is that, after his match was over, someone interpreted the rules and told him he was not going through - Korolev was.

Some time later, Blake announced in the press conference that Mr Disney had overruled that and decided Blake should advance. Blake knew at this point that him accepting and endorsing this decision in the press conference was going to screw Korolev over - he chose to go along with that and even said he thought the decision taken was the right thing to do. In his capacity as VP of the ATP Player Council, I personally feel that he had a duty to look out for the interests of a young guy like Korolev and failed to do so. Undoubtedly the rule was stupid but he was prepared to go along with a rule-change mid-tournament that would deny a young player on the way up a place in the QF that the rules in effect determined that he deserved. I find this very disappointing.

celia
03-04-2007, 08:40 PM
James is starting to look worse by the minute. :eek:

but how come there's no discussion of this on ESPN or SI or any of the sport sites? it only seems to be a big deal here.

RickDaStick
03-04-2007, 08:45 PM
James is starting to look worse by the minute. :eek:

but how come there's no discussion of this on ESPN or SI or any of the sport sites? it only seems to be a big deal here.

Because there is much more important stuff going on such as March Madness, the steriods problems with baseball, nfl free agency so dont expect much tennis talk in the US this time of the year.

celia
03-04-2007, 08:49 PM
i had to go all the way to England to find something! :eek:

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/breakingnews/feedstory/0,,-6453464,00.html

Blake calls on ATP to change rules after Vegas fiasco

By Simon Cambers

LAS VEGAS, March 2 (Reuters) - World number six James Blake called on the ATP Tour to change the rules at round-robin tournaments after a bizarre 24 hours when he went out of the Las Vegas Open, was reinstated and then eliminated again.
"If some good can come out of it, the revamping or destruction of the round-robin system, then that is something," Blake told reporters on Friday.
"It seriously needs to be looked at. We're going to run into situations every single week."
The American made his initial exit when Juan Martin del Potro retired during their round-robin match on Thursday.
Blake, leading 6-1 3-1, needed to beat the Argentine with the loss of no more than five games to reach the quarter-finals.
But, under the rules, del Potro's withdrawal meant he had only completed one match, knocking him out of a three-way tie with Blake and Russian Evgeny Korolev in Group 1.
Since Korolev had beaten Blake in their round-robin match, the Russian advanced.
The ATP then reinstated Blake, saying it was a commonsense decision because the rule had not been properly explained, only to reverse its U-turn on Friday morning.
Under its own rules, the sport's governing body cannot overrule the ATP supervisor on such matters.
"After hearing all the reasons...I completely understand the rule," said Blake. "Evgeny deserves to be in the quarter-finals.
RULES FLAW
"The only thing is that a possible flaw in the rules has been exposed in this round-robin format."
Blake questioned the amount of control a player had in the situation del Potro found himself in.
"Once (he) was down 6-1 3-1 he could have lost a few more games and allowed me to go through or he could have retired and let Evgeny go through," said Blake.
"To put that kind of control in a player's hands is something that needs to be looked at."
Korolev thought the right decision was reached.
"It's a really difficult situation," he said. "I was a little angry but you have to understand the situation.
"James is a nice guy and I hope he's not angry with me. The thing is you cannot change the rules in the middle of a tournament."
Korolev said many players were against the round-robin format.
"I am actually glad this happened because a lot of players do not agree with the round-robin system," said the Russian.
The 19-year-old said he barely had any sleep after going to bed at 0300 but still managed to beat American Sam Querrey 6-4 6-4 to reach his first ATP semi-final.
"I was happy to play but I was also thinking how James would feel," said Korolev. "I felt a little guilty."

celia
03-04-2007, 08:55 PM
DID THE ATP TRY TO BRIBE KOROLEV?????? Why was he paid so much money AFTER they decided to kick him out and leave Blake in? See below.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Mar-02-Fri-2007/sports/12912901.html

Bottom line: Top seed Blake reaches quarters

Defending champ survives after round-robin rule rescinded

First he was in. Then he was out. Then he was back in.

In a bizarre set of circumstances Thursday, James Blake, the Tennis Channel Open's top seed and defending champion, went from advancing to today's quarterfinals to being eliminated in a matter of seconds, then being placed back in the tournament three hours later.

Entering his final round-robin match at the Darling Tennis Center, Blake needed to defeat Juan Martin Del Potro in straight sets and hold him to five or fewer games won. He was well on his way to doing so, winning the first set 6-1 and leading the second 3-1 when Del Potro retired, citing respiratory distress.

By rule, Del Potro's retirement meant his record did not count in Group 1. That meant either Blake or Evgeny Korolev would advance to single elimination in the three-man group.

And because Korolev beat Blake 6-2, 6-4 on Tuesday, he should have advanced to the quarterfinals.

But Blake and Del Potro said they did not know the rule and that it wasn't explained to them before their match.

A lengthy discussion ensued between the players, tournament officials and the ATP, and a conference call was placed from Las Vegas to London and Acapulco, where ATP officials joined the conversation.

Late in the day, the ATP announced it was rescinding the rule, even though the tournament was in its fifth day. Three hours after he had left Stadium Court, Blake was back in and Korolev was out.

"A mistake was made, and the ATP is correcting a mistake," Blake said. "Maybe I'm biased, but I think it's a fair decision."
Blake joins Sam Querrey, Jurgen Melzer, Jan Hernych, Fernando Verdasco, Feliciano Lopez, Lleyton Hewitt and Marat Safin in the final eight.

Blake will meet Querrey at noon today in a match between the two remaining Americans. Blake defeated Querrey last year at Indian Wells, Calif., in their only meeting.

In a statement issued by ATP executive chairman and president Etienne de Villiers, the organization said its decision to change the rules was dictated by common sense.

"This has troubled me enormously, and I feel as though I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't," de Villiers said. "We have said all along we are going to learn from the experiment. A similar situation occurred in Buenos Aires, which has given us great cause for concern. It is clear our fans like round robin, and research confirms that. But unless we can find a way to ensure that withdrawals don't unfairly affect the outcome of groups, I'm afraid round robin will fail.
"James Blake will be awarded the group on the basis that the rules were not sufficiently explained. James was within a few games of winning the match comfortably to advance. Juan Martin has stated that he would have completed the match had he been fully aware of the implications of his retirement."
Del Potro said: "I wanted to finish the match. But I was not aware of the technicality of the rule. I did not feel comfortable continuing."

Tour officials said the round-robin format will be reviewed in three weeks at a board meeting in Miami.

The ruling gave tournament director David Egdes his star attraction for at least one more day.

"We're obviously thrilled James is still in," Egdes said. "But James isn't the lone ticket-seller. We have other top players here that the fans want to see.

"We would have been OK with it had Korolev been in. You have to understand, we're not the decision-maker here. We're just abiding by the rule that was handed down."

Korolev refused comment, but he could not have shared in Egdes' enthusiasm despite leaving with some prize money.

The ATP awarded him $11,375 (the average amount of prize money from the quarterfinals and semifinals). He normally would have received $6,450 for his round-robin performance.

Hewitt, the No. 2 seed, said Korolev seemed upset in the locker room and questioned the ATP's decision.

"I saw what was unfolding and I'm mystified by the ruling," Hewitt said after rallying to defeat Thomas Johansson, 4-6, 7-5, 6-2. "I don't see how they can change the rule in the middle of the tournament. That's not right.

"If I was (Korolev), I'd be pissed off. This is a kid on the rise. He beat Blake 2 and 4 the other night. The money's not going to matter to him. I feel sorry for the bloke."

Blake said he also felt bad for Korolev to a certain extent.

"If I was Korolev, it would be a tricky situation," Blake said. "But at the end of the day, it's about who would have been wronged more."

Blake knew he had little margin for error Thursday, and he played every point that way. Using a stinging forehand, he kept Del Potro pinned on the baseline, opening up the rest of the court for himself.

Blake went up an early break in the first set and, despite giving it back at 2-0, broke back at love to lead 3-1. He scored a third service break to go up 5-1, then closed out the set by holding serve.

"It was very different, very strange," Blake said of his situation. "My main goal was to get out fast, and I tried to put pressure on him."

By losing just the one game, Blake had given himself some wiggle room. Or so he thought. If he won the second set 6-4 or better, he would advance to the quarterfinals.

But the one scenario he didn't consider was about to surface.

Blake again started quickly, securing an early break in the first game. The two then exchanged breaks, giving Blake a 2-1 lead.

During a changeover, Del Potro said he was having trouble breathing and called for a trainer. He was examined and decided to continue.

Del Potro had Blake in trouble at 30-40 but slipped, and Blake won the point. He eventually held with a 118 mph ace to lead 3-1.

Del Potro then quit. Little did he realize it at the time, but his decision set off a firestorm that will rage for weeks as the ATP decides what to do with the popular yet controversial round-robin format.

"With any new system, there are going to be flaws, hiccups," Blake said. "We're learning as we go along. I'm sure it will be a hot topic of discussion in three weeks in Miami."

vodkaramel
03-04-2007, 09:26 PM
DID THE ATP TRY TO BRIBE KOROLEV?????? Why was he paid so much money AFTER they decided to kick him out and leave Blake in?

this is exactly what puzzles me. The ATP was being totally illogical.
- EITHER they say "we follow the rules" (which seemed to be the most logical/legal/legitimate thing to do) and Korolev is in. They could have changed them for the next rr tournament.

- OR they say these rules are ridiculous, their stupidity was already exposed at Bs As, we didn't react soon enough, let's correct things now in the middle of the tournament, Blake is in. But in this case they shouldnt have awarded Korolev with more money to compensate. By doing so they implicitly recognise that what they are doing is totally wrong.

I am sure Korolev could have filed a lawsuit had he not been through.

Slightly off topic, I still don't understand what happened in the Hewitt/Spadea.T. Johansson group. Hewitt beat Spadea, who then withdraws, which leaves ToJo winning against a LL. I know ToJo ended up losing to Hewitt in the last match, but did he have a real chance of going through, or was it another Ferrero/Lapentti/Dlouhy situation ?

Jlee
03-04-2007, 09:27 PM
I don't know if he influenced any decisions or not - the fact remains that we still don't know who got Mr Disney involved and why - and who else might have encouraged that course of action. I doubt we will ever know who instigated it. You have to give Blake the benefit of the doubt and assume he was not involved, IMO.

The reason I am disappointed is that, after his match was over, someone interpreted the rules and told him he was not going through - Korolev was.

Some time later, Blake announced in the press conference that Mr Disney had overruled that and decided Blake should advance. Blake knew at this point that him accepting and endorsing this decision in the press conference was going to screw Korolev over - he chose to go along with that and even said he thought the decision taken was the right thing to do. In his capacity as VP of the ATP Player Council, I personally feel that he had a duty to look out for the interests of a young guy like Korolev and failed to do so. Undoubtedly the rule was stupid but he was prepared to go along with a rule-change mid-tournament that would deny a young player on the way up a place in the QF that the rules in effect determined that he deserved. I find this very disappointing.

I agree, there's really no evidence to say that Blake as the one who influenced the decision.

You're right, I can't argue with you on those points. I guess I just see it as being less of a big deal because of how messy the whole situation was. I tend to look at it as James believing that Mr. Disney had a different way of interpreting the rules and that he wouldn't make a mistake and "change" a rule mid-tournament. I think, "in the heat of the moment", he was happy to be through and wasn't going to debate the technicalities of the rule with the head of the ATP. I guess I'm just picturing a scene of mass confusion where lots of different things were happening at once and he was suddenly given a pass through. :shrug:

In the end I think he knows as well as anyone that Korolev deserved to go through and is just emphasizing the need to adjust the rule (outside of when a tournament is being played). I am a pretty big Blake fan though and I would probably be less likely to view the situation as being a lot of people's faults, not just James's, if, say, Ljubicic was the player instead - to be completely honest. :o :lol:

amierin
03-04-2007, 09:28 PM
There was a pretty lively discussion on www.talkabouttennis.com (http://www.talkabouttennis.com) in the Weekly ATP thread. I'm not that familiar with the SI board but there was a discussion on ESPN. There were several threads about it.
Some tennis bloggers Stateside also got into it.

Unless I'm missing something Blake is implying that JMdP retired on purpose to let Korolev through?

"After hearing all the reasons...I completely understand the rule," said Blake. "Evgeny deserves to be in the quarter-finals.
RULES FLAW
"The only thing is that a possible flaw in the rules has been exposed in this round-robin format."
Blake questioned the amount of control a player had in the situation del Potro found himself in.
"Once (he) was down 6-1 3-1 he could have lost a few more games and allowed me to go through or he could have retired and let Evgeny go through," said Blake.
"To put that kind of control in a player's hands is something that needs to be looked at."

vodkaramel
03-04-2007, 09:50 PM
Unless I'm missing something Blake is implying that JMdP retired on purpose to let Korolev through?

This isn't what I understand. He points out that a player has the power to decide which one of the players in his group he'd rather see advance, by either tanking or retiring. Still, to be in this position, there are conditions : this "powerful" player would have to have won his first match, while his opponent lost his. He would then be in a very good position to advance himself, so I guess the guys at the ATP didn't see that one coming.

Jlee
03-04-2007, 09:54 PM
This isn't what I understand. He points out that a player has the power to decide which one of the players in his group he'd rather see advance, by either tanking or retiring. Still, to be in this position, there are conditions : this "powerful" player would have to have won his first match, while his opponent lost his. He would then be in a very good position to advance himself, so I guess the guys at the ATP didn't see that one coming.

Exactly. He wasn't saying del Potro was doing that at all, which he obviously wasn't because he didn't even know about the rule. He was just saying that with the rule as it stands a player does have that power, and that someone could purposely retire in a match to advance someone else. He wasn't saying anything about what del Potro did :)

euroka1
03-04-2007, 10:09 PM
I agree, there's really no evidence to say that Blake as the one who influenced the decision.

You're right, I can't argue with you on those points. I guess I just see it as being less of a big deal because of how messy the whole situation was. I tend to look at it as James believing that Mr. Disney had a different way of interpreting the rules and that he wouldn't make a mistake and "change" a rule mid-tournament. I think, "in the heat of the moment", he was happy to be through and wasn't going to debate the technicalities of the rule with the head of the ATP. I guess I'm just picturing a scene of mass confusion where lots of different things were happening at once and he was suddenly given a pass through. :shrug:
In the end I think he knows as well as anyone that Korolev deserved to go through and is just emphasizing the need to adjust the rule (outside of when a tournament is being played). I am a pretty big Blake fan though and I would probably be less likely to view the situation as being a lot of people's faults, not just James's, if, say, Ljubicic was the player instead - to be completely honest. :o :lol:


When one looks at the time-line for all of this, it was a pretty long moment. Blake had plenty of time to work out what was going on and he is supposedly bright. It's pretty clear to me that, for this one time only hopefully, he just spoke badly, in his own self-interest, and not as a good representative on the Player Council.

...and we still don't know, who did call Mr. Disney and why? :confused: Tennis journalists who honor your profession, get to work!

Kalliopeia
03-04-2007, 10:20 PM
And even after the ruling was re-reversed, wasn't James still saying he thought it had been the right decision? That second press conference he gave was odd, like he was trying to say "Ok, Korolev should have gone through all along" but at the same time still trying to say that advancing him was the right decision.

Jlee
03-04-2007, 10:28 PM
^I don't remember that contradiction, but I easily could have missed it.

When one looks at the time-line for all of this, it was a pretty long moment. Blake had plenty of time to work out what was going on and he is supposedly bright. It's pretty clear to me that, for this one time only hopefully, he just spoke badly, in his own self-interest, and not as a good representative on the Player Council.

...and we still don't know, who did call Mr. Disney and why? :confused: Tennis journalists who honor your profession, get to work!

I just don't honestly think that it would have been handled any differently by any other player. What exactly was he supposed to do? He's told that the head of the ATP has made a decision about the interpretation of the rule. Should he go against the head of the ATP? Maybe. But in those few hours he didn't, he had a press conference, and said he was happy to go through. He was wrong, which I think he's realized since. Unfortunately he was placed in a terrible position and I see Mr. Disney as being the man responsible for this fiasco, not James's statements.

Yes, you're right. WE DO NOT KNOW. Thus, putting that on James isn't exactly fair at this specific point in time.

euroka1
03-04-2007, 10:57 PM
^I don't remember that contradiction, but I easily could have missed it.



I just don't honestly think that it would have been handled any differently by any other player. What exactly was he supposed to do? He's told that the head of the ATP has made a decision about the interpretation of the rule. Should he go against the head of the ATP? Maybe. But in those few hours he didn't, he had a press conference, and said he was happy to go through. He was wrong, which I think he's realized since. Unfortunately he was placed in a terrible position and I see Mr. Disney as being the man responsible for this fiasco, not James's statements.

Yes, you're right. WE DO NOT KNOW. Thus, putting that on James isn't exactly fair at this specific point in time.

time-line:
http://tennisworld.typepad.com/travelblogue/2007/03/merrygoroundrob.html

Blake would have been best to have declared a conflict of interest and said as little as possible. He has probably learned from this experience. I feel sorry for him to the extent that the more he says, the deeper he gets.

Jlee
03-04-2007, 11:26 PM
time-line:
http://tennisworld.typepad.com/travelblogue/2007/03/merrygoroundrob.html

Blake would have been best to have declared a conflict of interest and said as little as possible. He has probably learned from this experience. I feel sorry for him to the extent that the more he says, the deeper he gets.

THANK YOU!!! :worship:

I really wanted to read something like that. I agree, he would have been better off not saying anything. After reading that though it seems like the whole thing was a confusing mess, I'm not immediately seeing a way to blame Blake for what happened. He sounded really confused about everything.

celia
03-05-2007, 12:40 AM
......and we still don't know, who did call Mr. Disney and why? :confused: [/B]!

i can't imagine James, as popular as he is, being able to call Mr. Disney at home in the middle of the night to demand a rule change. somehow that just does not seem possible or logical. but the question remains -- who did and why?

WHO = someone with a high status/rank within the ATP hierarchy. WHY = to help his star (James) remain in the draw.

but why is James being held responsible for this???? :confused:

where James seems to be culpable IMO is that he seemed at some point to have been aware that rules were being changed -- and he was OK with it. but he wasn't OK with it (IMO) because he was trying to cheat, but because he really did not understand how the rules worked. here are his exact words as to why he thought the ATP had taken the right decision: "Once (he) was down 6-1 3-1 he could have lost a few more games and allowed me to go through or he could have retired and let Evgeny go through," said Blake". To put that kind of control in a player's hands is something that needs to be looked at.".

In other words, James was not deliberately trying to cheat. he seemed to really believe that this was six of one half a dozen of the other. which suggests that he still was not clear on the rules. seems like nobody was.

Jlee
03-05-2007, 12:42 AM
You know, this whole discussion over who "called" Mr. Disney is probably irrelevant. The ATP was reviewing the rules, he heard about it, he involved himself or they involved him. Not so ridiculous :shrug:

euroka1
03-05-2007, 01:15 AM
You know, this whole discussion over who "called" Mr. Disney is probably irrelevant. The ATP was reviewing the rules, he heard about it, he involved himself or they involved him. Not so ridiculous :shrug:

The ATP statement was explicit:
"I was contacted late at night my time and did not fully understand the issues being discussed and I made a judgment call on what seemed fair. However I understand that judgment calls are not part of the rule book and I must abide by the rules, as must everybody else in the circumstance," de Villiers said.

Someone had to make that late night contact. The ATP did it's reviewing of the rules after the "judgement call". I'm still very suspicious of a cover-up.

Jlee
03-05-2007, 01:19 AM
The ATP statement was explicit:
"I was contacted late at night my time and did not fully understand the issues being discussed and I made a judgment call on what seemed fair. However I understand that judgment calls are not part of the rule book and I must abide by the rules, as must everybody else in the circumstance," de Villiers said.

Someone had to make that late night contact. The ATP did it's reviewing of the rules after the "judgement call". I'm still very suspicious of a cover-up.

I see. I suppose I was under the impression that he just got involved when he heard about the controversy. My apologies :)

I still seriously doubt that James would pick up the phone and call him to force him to make a judgement call and then somehow get that relayed into a message that he should go through. We don't know who did it, but it's likely that it wasn't James :shrug:

Then again, perhaps I'm grasping at straws.

euroka1
03-05-2007, 01:23 AM
I see. I suppose I was under the impression that he just got involved when he heard about the controversy. My apologies :)

I still seriously doubt that James would pick up the phone and call him to force him to make a judgement call and then somehow get that relayed into a message that he should go through. We don't know who did it, but it's likely that it wasn't James :shrug:

Then again, perhaps I'm grasping at straws.

Me too, most likely one of the Las Vegas people wanting to stuff the stands. But, why not just come clean?

Jlee
03-05-2007, 01:27 AM
Me too, most likely one of the Las Vegas people wanting to stuff the stands. But, why not just come clean?

*sigh* I don't know. :sobbing:

It just confuses me because this whole fiasco seems to be completely contradictory with any of James's previous actions. I'd like to hear him give a press conference explaining himself.

euroka1
03-05-2007, 01:36 AM
*sigh* I don't know. :sobbing:

It just confuses me because this whole fiasco seems to be completely contradictory with any of James's previous actions. I'd like to hear him give a press conference explaining himself.

Probably not wise, though. Everything he's said so far has just got him in deeper.:sad:

Jlee
03-05-2007, 01:50 AM
Probably not wise, though. Everything he's said so far has just got him in deeper.:sad:

That's true :sobbing:

I just feel like he must have some reasonable explanation. If not he should just come out and apologize. I would respect that at least...

amierin
03-05-2007, 01:55 AM
Blake fans this doesn't make your guy look good.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=97244

Jlee
03-05-2007, 02:00 AM
Blake fans this doesn't make your guy look good.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=97244

Actually, I was able to see that myself. And I commented on it.

2moretogo
03-05-2007, 02:56 AM
ATP are a bunch of wimps. This is the true issue here. Whether or not Blake called is irrelavant. The fucking president of the ATP decided to listen to him/IMG/the vegas tournament directors v. the rules. Geesh, even the players get this. And the players, rightly so, have taken advantage of the weakness in the hierarchy.

Its like the inmates running the fucking asylum. But I can't blame them really I can't. The public squabbles between the ATP, TDs, ITF has left an irresistable opening for the players.

martine2
03-05-2007, 06:41 AM
THANK YOU!!! :worship:

I really wanted to read something like that. I agree, he would have been better off not saying anything. After reading that though it seems like the whole thing was a confusing mess, I'm not immediately seeing a way to blame Blake for what happened. He sounded really confused about everything.

I totally agree.

RR sucks and James (and also Korolev) were victims of the system.
Give the poor guy a break :hug:

ServeAlready81
03-05-2007, 07:55 AM
I totally agree.

RR sucks and James (and also Korolev) were victims of the system.
Give the poor guy a break :hug:

Yes, and I think it stinks that people aren't putting more of the heat on Del Potro himself. He obviously knew that James would be eliminated if he had retired, who's to say that he didn't have some type of peresonal vendetta against Blake. True he was ill, but he wasn't injured with a sprained ankle or something that could've been further damaged had he finished the match.

Saumon
03-05-2007, 07:58 AM
Yes, and I think it stinks that people aren't putting more of the heat on Del Potro himself. He obviously knew that James would be eliminated if he had retired, who's to say that he didn't have some type of peresonal vendetta against Blake. True he was ill, but he wasn't injured with a sprained ankle or something that could've been further damaged had he finished the match.

If JMDP really had something against Blake he would not have played at all :shrug:

ServeAlready81
03-05-2007, 08:00 AM
If JMDP really had something against Blake he would not have played at all :shrug:

However, that would've looked a lot more suspicious than playing the match and retiring. I'm not saying that Del Potro for sure had something against Blake and retired, I'm just saying that so many people are putting all of this on Blake and speculating that he was trying to fuck over Korolev etc; However they aren't speculating in other directions. Whatever though, Blake has accomplished more in a week than all of his haters combined :cool:

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 08:02 AM
Yes, and I think it stinks that people aren't putting more of the heat on Del Potro himself. He obviously knew that James would be eliminated if he had retired, who's to say that he didn't have some type of peresonal vendetta against Blake. True he was ill, but he wasn't injured with a sprained ankle or something that could've been further damaged had he finished the match.

Hahahahaha, you are a funny one.

del Potro doesn't even know Blake, so why would he bother with a vendetta. You really don't think do you.

Actually if del Potro withdrew from the match before it started, then that would have been better, but of course you forgot that he won his match and his condition is more important than your blind fanaticism.

scarecrows
03-05-2007, 08:03 AM
the excuses that some people try to get are appalling

ServeAlready81
03-05-2007, 08:08 AM
Hahahahaha, you are a funny one.

del Potro doesn't even know Blake, so why would he bother with a vendetta. You really don't think do you.

Actually if del Potro withdrew from the match before it started, then that would have been better, but of course you forgot that he won his match and his condition is more important than your blind fanaticism.

:lol: Silly,

First off, you don't have to KNOW someone to not like them. Case in point, I'm almost 100% sure you do not know James Blake and you've been spewing your venom about him the last 3 days on these boards.

Second, why would Del Potro withdraw from the match BEFORE knowing he was going to get his arse handed to him (6-1 3-1) :shrug:

Saumon
03-05-2007, 08:09 AM
However, that would've looked a lot more suspicious than playing the match and retiring. I'm not saying that Del Potro for sure had something against Blake and retired, I'm just saying that so many people are putting all of this on Blake and speculating that he was trying to fuck over Korolev etc; However they aren't speculating in other directions. Whatever though, Blake has accomplished more in a week than all of his haters combined :cool:

what an old fox that del potro! all those years spent on the atp tour have corrupted him!
well to be honnest i'm conviced Rafa gave del Potro big bucks to retire from that match! don't you think it's suspicious that we've not heard Nadal's reaction yet? :eek:

ahhh the conspiracy!! I hope the ATP will find out the truth and punish those cheaters!!! :mad:

ServeAlready81
03-05-2007, 08:10 AM
the excuses that some people try to get are appalling

Who's giving excuses? :shrug: I personally have never said what James did wasn't wrong, I just think it's ridiculous for people to act like he's this horrible person. There are players who have done far worse things and still don't get the flack that James is getting for this stupid incident that's getting really old.

ServeAlready81
03-05-2007, 08:11 AM
what an old fox that del potro! all those years spent on the atp tour have corrupted him!
well to be honnest i'm conviced Rafa gave del Potro big bucks to retire from that match! don't you think it's suspicious that we've not heard Nadal's reaction yet? :eek:

ahhh the conspiracy!! I hope the ATP will find out the truth and punish those cheaters!!! :mad:

heh

Saumon
03-05-2007, 08:14 AM
heh

I hope you'll get a WC for the ACC :wavey:

scarecrows
03-05-2007, 08:15 AM
I hope you'll get a WC for the ACC :wavey:

why WC? :confused:

there's still plenty of time to climb up the ranking and the current shape looks great

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 08:15 AM
:lol: Silly,

First off, you don't have to KNOW someone to not like them. Case in point, I'm almost 100% sure you do not know James Blake and you've been spewing your venom about him the last 3 days on these boards.

Second, why would Del Potro withdraw from the match BEFORE knowing he was going to get his arse handed to him (6-1 3-1) :shrug:

You are an absolute clown and have shown that over many times and I don't think Blake would want to employ as his PR manager.

It's simple, if you have breathing difficulties, then it's going to impact on your play, but you might find that hard to believe.

In other words cause you can't admit that Blake errors in how he handled this, you looking for other scapegoats. You don't know shit from clay as to whether I know Blake or not and if I did, there is no way I would brag about that on a message board.

The sad thing is you are serious.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 08:16 AM
I hope you'll get a WC for the ACC :wavey:

Seeding.

ServeAlready81
03-05-2007, 08:16 AM
I hope you'll get a WC for the ACC :wavey:

wish me luck :wavey:

Saumon
03-05-2007, 08:22 AM
Seeding.

:woohoo:

ServeAlready81
03-05-2007, 08:24 AM
You are an absolute clown and have shown that over many times and I don't think Blake would want to employ as his PR manager.

I'm the clown, but you've repeatedly made personal attacks against me which shows your lack of maturity to have a debate without stooping to a grade school level.

It's simple, if you have breathing difficulties, then it's going to impact on your play, but you might find that hard to believe.

That doesn't change the fact that he was being out played. Are you saying he had breathing problems before he started the match? Why even play a whole set and seemingly half of the 2nd?

In other words cause you can't admit that Blake errors in how he handled this, you looking for other scapegoats. You don't know shit from clay as to whether I know Blake or not and if I did, there is no way I would brag about that on a message board.

Again for the 1,000,000,000,000th time, I never said Blake was correct in how he handled the situation. I just find it repulsive at how passionate people are in their campaign to disparage Blake. Players have done far worse things and have been excused for them.


The sad thing is you are serious.

Would I honestly waste my time in a debate thread if I wasn't serious? Let me just sit here and type jokes all day :rolleyes:

In closing, in reference to your repeated attempts at insulting my intelligence... If you really thought I was a dumbass would you seriously waste your time arguing with me? Unless you're not too bright yourself :shrug:

Saumon
03-05-2007, 08:34 AM
You should stop arguing with GWH. I've tried before, it doesn't work (except for self entertainment purpose). :p Plus you'll still sound like a clown. ;)

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 08:35 AM
I'm the clown, but you've repeatedly made personal attacks against me which shows your lack of maturity to have a debate without stooping to a grade school level.

Well no point calling a spade a horse is there?

That doesn't change the fact that he was being out played. Are you saying he had breathing problems before he started the match? Why even play a whole set and seemingly half of the 2nd?

The fact is he was ill and people who watched the match can vouch for that. He wanted to make the QFs, so he tried to play it out, but why should he further jeopardise his own health for someone else's benefit?

Again for the 1,000,000,000,000th time, I never said Blake was correct in how he handled the situation. I just find it repulsive at how passionate people are in their campaign to disparage Blake. Players have done far worse things and have been excused for them.

This your problem time and time again. You can't handle the fact that rightly or wrongly Blake is being criticised in this issue, which means you lack an argument cause bringing in other players deeds that have nothing to do with this particular case, to try and make Blake look better.

No, you are a good timewasting tool and I along with members of the seeding committee judging your credentials for the ACC.

So when you actually get something resembling an argument and not looking to scapegoat others that have nothing to do with this particular issue, then there maybe a miniscule of progress.

Keep digging.

ServeAlready81
03-05-2007, 08:46 AM
The fact is he was ill and people who watched the match can vouch for that. He wanted to make the QFs, so he tried to play it out, but why should he further jeopardise his own health for someone else's benefit?

First off, you're really veering from the original point I was trying to make. In that there's no way of knowing if Del Potro had a vendetta against James or not. It's speculation to sit there and say "Del Potro doesn't know James therefore that's impossible". Not saying this makes James' decision right, however everyone is pointing the finger at Blake unjustly IMO.

This your problem time and time again. You can't handle the fact that rightly or wrongly Blake is being criticised in this issue, which means you lack an argument cause bringing in other players deeds that have nothing to do with this particular case, to try and make Blake look better.

I'm not trying to make James look better, I'd be insane to think members of this forum would actually respect James as a professional and also a human being who makes mistakes

No, you are a good timewasting tool and I along with members of the seeding committee judging your credentials for the ACC.

mmmkay

So when you actually get something resembling an argument and not looking to scapegoat others that have nothing to do with this particular issue, then there maybe a miniscule of progress.

It's easy to sit on your pedestal and say I don't have an argument in an attempt to make your argument seem like the only valid line of reasoning. That's simple pyschology, however not everyone has to agree with that.

Keep digging.

Who's digging? Yourself and others are the ones blowing this whole scenario out of proportion in an attempt to condemn Blake for something probably 90% of other players on the ATP would've done.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 09:01 AM
First off, you're really veering from the original point I was trying to make. In that there's no way of knowing if Del Potro had a vendetta against James or not. It's speculation to sit there and say "Del Potro doesn't know James therefore that's impossible". Not saying this makes James' decision right, however everyone is pointing the finger at Blake unjustly IMO.

You suggesting that there was a vendetta was silly enough to begin with. As I said why would he? Wouldn't there need to be a reason for that to happen?

In other words you can't answer yes or no as to whether or not he should further jeopardise his own health for someone else's benefit?

I'm not trying to make James look better, I'd be insane to think members of this forum would actually respect James as a professional and also a human being who makes mistakes.

You really are in denial aren't you? Everything you have come up with in this thread is about bringing other players (Cañas and Puerta for example), as to say wooh look what they did.

How many times do I have to tell you this. Blake chose to handle this difficult situation in this particular way and got criticised by some people for it and that's all this relates to this particular incident. Try and understand that.

It's easy to sit on your pedestal and say I don't have an argument in an attempt to make your argument seem like the only valid line of reasoning. That's simple pyschology, however not everyone has to agree with that.

Numerous posters have given examples as to why I don't think this was handled well by Blake. His standing in the game, the fact he is VP of the Players Council and how that relates to this situation, etc, so you don't have to like what I have to say, but I don't say it without empty rhetoric.

Who's digging? Yourself and others are the ones blowing this whole scenario out of proportion in an attempt to condemn Blake for something probably 90% of other players on the ATP would've done.

Yes, the game of tennis and the ATP were made to look like a joke by what happened in Vegas. So you are using de Villiers words now? So it's ok for the head of the ATP to change the rules mid tournament to suit the monetary needs of the event?

thesupreme
03-05-2007, 10:16 AM
to be honest it not hard to see why people *really* are easy to hate on Blake but i'll neglect to say why....

Kalliopeia
03-05-2007, 10:41 AM
The bottom line is that even if del Potro was acting on some bizarre vendetta against James Blake (which is an idea that is truly based on absolutely nothing but a desperate wish to make someone look bad besides James), then at least he'd have been working within the accepted tournament rules to do it. Of course there is no reason to think this was the case. The guy was ill, couldn't breathe properly.

James Blake, on the other hand, abandoned his integrity as a player and perhaps more importantly, his responsibilities as a member of the Player's Council, to lobby for a rule change mid-tournament to benefit himself. And he did so at the expense of a young player who doesn't have the kind of power he has. From the sound of it, the ruling would have stood if not for the intervention of other players on his behalf. Which, frankly, is a sorry statement about the integrity of the ATP.

It also bears keeping in mind that just because Korolev says he ran into del Potro soon after the match and was told he was through by him, doesn't mean that del Potro knew the rule all along. He could easily have been told right after the match, same as James apparently was.

tcorinna
03-05-2007, 10:44 AM
Who's digging? Yourself and others are the ones blowing this whole scenario out of proportion in an attempt to condemn Blake for something probably 90% of other players on the ATP would've done.


I don't agree with you ... I don't think that the majority of players would have acted the same ... I'm sorry for Blake for the situation he is in right now, but when you are fair this kind of situations don't appear :( ... soo actually it is his fault :(

thesupreme
03-05-2007, 11:40 AM
"Who's digging? Yourself and others are the ones blowing this whole scenario out of proportion in an attempt to condemn Blake for something probably 90% of other players on the ATP would've done."


I kind of agree with that, I dont agree with Blakes conduct entirely but i bloody well understand, its just a shame the hate that comes out of people mouths and their ever present need to legitimise it

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 11:46 AM
I kind of agree with that, I dont agree with Blakes conduct entirely but i bloody well understand, its just a shame the hate that comes out of people mouths and their ever present need to legitimise it

to be honest it not hard to see why people *really* are easy to hate on Blake but i'll neglect to say why

Have the balls and come out and say what you mean by the bolded quote.

You understand that the VP of the Players council didn't know the rules of the tournament that he was part of their formation.

mtw
03-05-2007, 12:29 PM
I agree about what someone answered you This is TENNIS. Meaning? Individual sport. The problem here is basically players retirement from matches. Not something common in soccer, without counting outside problems (like fans, etc) when was the last time a team couldn't end a match because they didn't have 7 players on court? Very, very weird case. Did you see the list of retirement from AO 2007? You can't compare an individual sport with a team sport.
Don't think about Las Vegas circus, think what happened in Bs As following the original rules: Ferrero's case in Bs As. Lapenti got injured and couldn't play, so Ferrero was going to play against someone from the qually (that didn't get to play before) BUT without having chance because the original player, Lapenti, was out !?!?! So fair thing, either that's a walk over and counts for Ferrero like a victory over Lapenti or in some way (they have to think about it) the new player takes the place of Lapenti and if Ferrero wins is the same that winning over Lapenti. Never playing and having no change before the match started just becuse the original rival was injured. What are we going to have? a black market for games, sets or retirements where a player could "talk" (:rolleyes: ) to a second player to not play and perjudicate a third player?

But here we're NOT discussing if RR is okay or crap. We're discussing about how the rules (stupid for me, good for you) were changed JUT to make Blake pass.
That was fixed later because the scandall that caused, but the intention of Mr Disnay and the reaction of Blake can't be fixed. (Blake still thinks that modificating the rules for him was ok)

Also, I'm in favor of the RR for the MC. Why? It's an ELITE tournament. The top 8 players from the year play to get a champion. It's not a normal tournament, there are not normal inscriptions: it's based in what those players did during a whole year. So, I see ok, not doing it like "you lost, you're out" because is an special tournament, so it's okay having a second chance. They can't play against each other (the logic thing) because it takes too much time. So two groups with that format and taking in consideration how someone won/lost (straigh sets or not; 6-1 or 7-6) is okay. Again, Because is an elite tournament.
But in normal tournaments, when what you have to do is complete a paper and with that you can play (or a qualy)? What's the sense of a second chance in that case?
I don't agree.
System Round Robin should be introduced not only in this Elite Tournment, but in majority of tennis Tours ( maybe not in Grand Slams tour, because it would be too exhausting for players ). It was very good idea. Congratulation to originators and tennis authorities. This idea with electronic systems of checking the outs and questionable balls was great too.

lau
03-05-2007, 12:32 PM
I don't agree.
System Round Robin should be introduced not only in this Elite Tournment, but in majority of tennis Tours ( maybe not in Grand Slams tour, because it would be too exhausting for players ). It was very good idea. Congratulation to originators and tennis authorities. This idea with electronic systems of checking the outs and questionable balls was great too.

Post of the year!! :haha: :haha:

Honestly, we should have a thread for this posts... :scratch: There used to be one in Non-Tennis?

mtw
03-05-2007, 12:36 PM
Post of the year!! :haha: :haha:

Honestly, we should have a thread for this posts... :scratch: There used to be one in Non-Tennis?

Dear people. Don't you understand, that this system is good ( Round Robin system is not antimissile defence system. It is quite another thing) . I don't know, how should I it explain, that Round Robin system is proper one. Some systems are good and some ones are redundant.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 12:39 PM
Dear people. Don't you understand, that this system is good ( Round Robin system is not antimissile defence system. It is quite another thing) . I don't know, how should I it explain, that Round Robin system is proper one. Some systems are good and some ones are redundant.

Who is your drug dealer?

lau
03-05-2007, 12:40 PM
Dear people. Don't you understand, that this system is good ( Round Robin system is not antimissile defence system. It is quite another thing) . I don't know, how should I it explain, that Round Robin system is proper one. Some systems are good and some ones are redundant.

OMFG you keep improving it!! :haha:

alelysafina
03-05-2007, 12:42 PM
Who is your drug dealer?

Probably the one gogogirl goes to :secret:

mtw
03-05-2007, 12:54 PM
Who is your drug dealer?

Sorry. I don't take drugs, I don't smoke and I don't drink. What is wrong with you - Problems with hazard? Could you give real objections against this system. The rule is one. The best from the group will advance ( in tennis the most advantageous relations of sets, relatively gems - more profit in gems or less loss. It seems, that it is easier in tennis to introduce this system, than in soccer. This people, who watch soccer sometimes know, that draws occur quite oft. Theoretically it can be the problem, but only theoretically. There are no draws in tennis. ) This situation with del Potro, Blake and Korolev is rare and unique. Besides Blake lost when he played with Korolev? Didn't he? And Korolev advanced fair. If Blake played against Korolev in former ,,normal '' system and lost? Whowould advance then? Korolev too. Maybe some authorities do not know yet this system very well and this mistake almost occured.

scoobs
03-05-2007, 12:56 PM
The situation with Blake, Korolev and Del Potro was a virtually identical rerun to a situation that occurred in Buenos Aires one week before. In case you weren't aware :)

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 01:00 PM
Sorry. I don't take drugs, I don't smoke and I don't drink. What is wrong with you - Problems with hazard? Could you give real objections against this system. The rule is one. The best from the group will advance ( in tennis the most advantageous relations of sets, relatively gems - more profit in gems or less loss. It seems, that it is easier in tennis to introduce this system, than in soccer. This people, who watch soccer sometimes know, that draws occur quite oft. Theoretically it can be the problem, but only theoretically. There are no draws in tennis. ) This situation with del Potro, Blake and Korolev is rare and unique. Besides Blake lost when he played with Korolev? Didn't he? And Korolev advanced fair. If Blake played against Korolev in former ,,normal '' system and lost? Whowould advance then? Korolev too. Maybe some authorities do not know yet this system very well and this mistake almost occured.

You mustn't read very well. I have given more than enough reasons as to why I hate Round Robin, there are about 25 threads on this subject.

Tennis is not football. There was a situation last week with Ferrero, Lapentti and Devilder.

Why can't you understand that tennis is not football and they have differences? It doesn't even work in football, most people are bored shitless until the knockout matches.

mtw
03-05-2007, 01:01 PM
OMFG you keep improving it!! :haha:

I have no strength for persuasion today. Round Robin system is good and fair. What is OMFG?

mtw
03-05-2007, 01:10 PM
You mustn't read very well. I have given more than enough reasons as to why I hate Round Robin, there are about 25 threads on this subject.

Tennis is not football. There was a situation last week with Ferrero, Lapentti and Devilder.

Why can't you understand that tennis is not football and they have differences? It doesn't even work in football, most people are bored shitless until the knockout matches.

And most of all problem with bets is larger. This system works very good in soccer. No accidents. Always the best teams will advance ( in soccer in group phase 2 teams from every group ). I agree, that it is quite complicated and some people can have difficulties with understanding it.
Besides this system is much easier to introduce in tennis, than in soccer. Maybe in the beginning it must be better developed. But there are beginnings. The idea is very good. Maybe it should be 4 persons in a group not 3 - exactly, as in Master Cup. All should be considered.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 01:13 PM
And most of all problem with bets is larger. This system works very good in soccer. No accidents. Always the best teams will advance ( in soccer in group phase 2 teams from every group ). I agree, that it is quite complicated and some people can have difficulties with understanding it.
Besides this system is much easier to introduce in tennis, than in soccer. Maybe in the beginning it must be better developed. But there are beginnings. The idea is very good. Maybe it should be 4 persons in a group not 3 - exactly, as in Master Cup. All should be considered.

Everything is considered, it's shit and there have been enough examples already with the shit format. It doesn't work in tennis with fields over 8 players.

Nothing you can say at all can convince me RR is a good idea.

lau
03-05-2007, 01:17 PM
Everything is considered, it's shit and there have been enough examples already with the shit format. It doesn't work in tennis with fields over 8 players.

Nothing you can say at all can convince me RR is a good idea.

you shouldn´t even bother ;)

I have no strength for persuasion today. Round Robin system is good and fair. What is OMFG?
oh my fu****g god

mtw
03-05-2007, 01:18 PM
Everything is considered, it's shit and there have been enough examples already with the shit format. It doesn't work in tennis with fields over 8 players.

Nothing you can say at all can convince me RR is a good idea.

But in my opinion this system is good and fair.
It demands only thinking over and working out.

mtw
03-05-2007, 01:19 PM
oh my fu****g god

Ugly

lau
03-05-2007, 01:23 PM
Ugly

You once said worst things to me :sad:

Julio1974
03-05-2007, 01:33 PM
You mustn't read very well. I have given more than enough reasons as to why I hate Round Robin, there are about 25 threads on this subject.

Tennis is not football. There was a situation last week with Ferrero, Lapentti and Devilder.

Why can't you understand that tennis is not football and they have differences? It doesn't even work in football, most people are bored shitless until the knockout matches.

Welcome to the unqiue experience of trying to argue with mtw...

zicofirol
03-05-2007, 05:05 PM
Welcome to the unqiue experience of trying to argue with mtw...

haha, yeah, should win arseclown contest this year, running away with it... its a troll all around, most trolls are on dimensional sticking to non-tennis forums or just general messagers or chat threads or player forums but mtw's repertoire is just impressive...

mtw
03-05-2007, 05:11 PM
You once said worst things to me :sad:

I'm sorry. You had to irritate me. I'm really sorry.

Sofonda Cox
03-05-2007, 05:12 PM
haha, yeah, should win arseclown contest this year, running away with it... its a troll all around, most trolls are on dimensional sticking to non-tennis forums or just general messagers or chat threads or player forums but mtw's repertoire is just impressive...

you seem to know alot about trolls, maybe you are one. mtw is funny :yeah:

scoobs
03-05-2007, 05:17 PM
I don't blame Blake or not blame Blake, but I think people will be suspicious unless or until his role in the whole affair is cleared up and who got De Villiers involved is determined.

mtw
03-05-2007, 05:17 PM
Welcome to the unqiue experience of trying to argue with mtw...

I have my own opinions. And I don't understand, why should I admit rightness to people, who has no advisability? If I am not sure of a subject-matter, I don't
interject.

zicofirol
03-05-2007, 05:29 PM
If I am not sure of a subject-matter, I don't
interject.

then you shouldt post in 99% of the threads you post in, haha...

zicofirol
03-05-2007, 05:30 PM
you seem to know alot about trolls, maybe you are one. mtw is funny :yeah:

it's funny I cant argue with that...

Sofonda Cox
03-05-2007, 05:32 PM
it's funny I cant argue with that...

:lol:

Julio1974
03-05-2007, 06:15 PM
then you shouldt post in 99% of the threads you post in, haha...

:lol:

R.Federer
03-05-2007, 07:36 PM
Why is James Blake not making a statement to clear up the mess? He shouldn't hide, because it only makes him look like the person who pressure Etienne.

I hope there is something in the first press conf in Indian Wells.

Net Cord
03-05-2007, 07:38 PM
Why is James Blake not making a statement to clear up the mess? He shouldn't hide, because it only makes him look like the person who pressure Etienne.

I hope there is something in the first press conf in Indian Wells.

I think to most people, Blake looks like the victim, not the puppetmaster. I haven't seen one shred of evidence saying that Blake pressured Etienne. Am I missing something?

R.Federer
03-05-2007, 07:59 PM
I think to most people, Blake looks like the victim, not the puppetmaster. I haven't seen one shred of evidence saying that Blake pressured Etienne. Am I missing something?

You have read the Korolev interview thread, yes? If not, take a look. It seems that to most posters, truly just a handful in the minority, Blake has come across very poorly. And that is putting it in decent words and terms.

I don't think he is necessarily fully to blame (although he knows the rules as well as anyone, particularly the young pros), and so why didn't he step up and say he was unfairly being pushed through to the next round? Like I said, a statement from him right now would be helpful.

Net Cord
03-05-2007, 08:06 PM
You have read the Korolev interview thread, yes? If not, take a look. It seems that to most posters, truly just a handful in the minority, Blake has come across very poorly. And that is putting it in decent words and terms.

I don't think he is necessarily fully to blame (although he knows the rules as well as anyone, particularly the young pros), and so why didn't he step up and say he was unfairly being pushed through to the next round? Like I said, a statement from him right now would be helpful.

The only things that seem clear to me are that:

1) JDP didn't know the rules.
2) Blake didn't know the rules.
3) Etienne didn't know or disregarded the rules.

I guess that you are right in that Blake might want to respond, but it seems to me that the only people now who would REALLY be pissed off at him are racists or people jumping the gun. There's not really a need to respond to them.

ServeAlready81
03-05-2007, 08:16 PM
Why is James Blake not making a statement to clear up the mess? He shouldn't hide, because it only makes him look like the person who pressure Etienne.

I hope there is something in the first press conf in Indian Wells.

I hope Blake doesn't respond, if the journalists at the press conference try to grill them he should plead the 5th. The situation is over and it is now up to the ATP to decide where to go at this point with the RR format. People are acting like Blake owes us something, he does not. Let's move on.

R.Federer
03-05-2007, 08:55 PM
I hope Blake doesn't respond, if the journalists at the press conference try to grill them he should plead the 5th. The situation is over and it is now up to the ATP to decide where to go at this point with the RR format. People are acting like Blake owes us something, he does not. Let's move on.

You're right, he doesn't owe us anything. It's only that if he is the one who, despite the rules, pressed for an exception in his case because of how the system can be (CAN be, not that it WAS) abused, then it is in poor taste. As an old pro on the tour, he knows how difficult it is for the young guns to get a break. To actively rob one of a chance is in very poor form.

Now since some/many people are assuming this, he should just clear up the air and say that he did NOT himself ask for it. That Etienne wanted it to sell more tickets. In the absence of this, I think his silence will speak for him. And it will speak in the negative direction.

R.Federer
03-05-2007, 08:58 PM
The only things that seem clear to me are that:

1) JDP didn't know the rules.
2) Blake didn't know the rules.
3) Etienne didn't know or disregarded the rules.



JDP -- did know the rules. He is the one who came up to Korolev after the match and said "You're through" even before Korolev knew he was through.

Blake -- I am willing to entertain that he did not know the rules. I hope it was not knowing, rather than knowing but asking for an exemption on the grounds that such a situation CAN be abused. This is why I hope he can make a simple statement and address it quickly.

Villainers -- no excuse. This guy has initiated RR and HE does not know the rules? Unacceptable (and IMO, untrue). He wants RR to showcase top players. He thought he could get more tickets in Vegas. UGH UGH so despicable. Screwing a young player to do this. Unacceptable.

Net Cord
03-05-2007, 09:01 PM
JDP -- did know the rules. He is the one who came up to Korolev after the match and said "You're through" even before Korolev knew he was through.

I thought that JDP did not know until after the match but before he talked with Korolev. If this weren't the case, Etienne was outright lying when he said that JDP didn't know the rules and would have finished the match if he knew them.

R.Federer
03-05-2007, 09:04 PM
I thought that JDP did not know until after the match but before he talked with Korolev. If this weren't the case, Etienne was outright lying when he said that JDP didn't know the rules and would have finished the match if he knew them.

I don't know if we can know when JDP knew. But since the rules are well publicized, and all players are expected to know them, it is in the rulebook etc., I think knowing before the match is quite possible. That doesn't mean that he tanked of course. However, since so many people found the situation to be ambiguous, it is possible that JDP did not know whether retirement counted the same way as games lost. Maybe someone else can chip in here, if JDP has said something which indicates when he learned about it.

I was following the match via internet and when Blake had led 6-1 1-0 I was off to the club to receive prize money and papers for next tournament. And all of sudden I met del Potro who said, "You are through". "How? What happenned", I asked. He said, "I have breathe problems".

Lee
03-05-2007, 09:12 PM
I don't know if we can know when JDP knew. But since the rules are well publicized, and all players are expected to know them, it is in the rulebook etc., I think knowing before the match is quite possible. That doesn't mean that he tanked of course. However, since so many people found the situation to be ambiguous, it is possible that JDP did not know whether retirement counted the same way as games lost. Maybe someone else can chip in here, if JDP has said something which indicates when he learned about it.

I believed tournament director informed Blake that he's out before both players left the court after JDP retired.

Galathea
03-05-2007, 09:24 PM
A VP council doens't know the rules?! Really responsable.... :rolleyes:
I don't care who knew the rules or not. I't their obligation to take some minimal time to read them. If not, I think they have enough money to pay someone to read the rules and explain the reglament to them.... don't you think?

This is a quote from Korolev's interview:

"The rules were known before tournament' start. Yes, they are complicated and far from optimal, I believe. I knew if del Potro retired I would advance to the quarters... I was following the match via internet and when Blake had led 6-1 1-0 I was off to the club to receive prize money and papers for next tournament. And all of sudden I met del Potro who said, "You are through". "How? What happenned", I asked. He said, "I have breathe problems".

"Then I came up to James and said, "Sorry but that's it". He replied, "They are still discussing". "Discussing what?" "Who's gonna advance." "But according to the rules it's me, isn't it? If I am wrong then I accept it cos it's really not fair towards you".

"Later I've been told Blake got angry after the match and went to supervisor to appeal the rules. Of course he was leading and should win eventually but rules are the rules. Also I've been told ATP chairman changed them by one phone call and decided James would play."

"They had meeting in Dubai with Federer and other guys taking part in it. All of them said it was me who should play by the rules. They contacted de Villiers and came to conclusion nobody was allowed to change the rules in the middle of tournament"

This is pretty much an answer to the tittle of that thread. It's not importan if JMDP, Blake and korolev knew the rules, because besides being their obligation read the reglament, it's what they did when they knew the rules.
Not a good character test for Blake.

Kalliopeia
03-05-2007, 09:25 PM
Round Robin system is not antimissile defence system. It is quite another thing

....okay. Thanks for clearing that up. :scratch:

Why is James Blake not making a statement to clear up the mess? He shouldn't hide, because it only makes him look like the person who pressure Etienne.

I hope there is something in the first press conf in Indian Wells.

Well you know they're going to ask him. The thing is, he must be aware that his reputation has taken a bit of a hit. Korolev has said he went to argue the rule and I don't really see what motivation he would have to say that if he didn't at least believe it to be true (regardless of whether it actually is true).

Another thing that occurred to me about this whole disaster today is how James said in his second press conference how he hoped he still had friends in the locker room or whatever (I can't find a transcript of that press conference :( ). We know that Safin, Hewitt and Johannson were against what happened but didn't learn until later that Federer and who knows who else in Dubai were also consulted and were all against it as well (according to Korolev). I wish we knew how many players in Dubai were in on that meeting. That all just puts that comment of James's into a new perspective.

lau
03-05-2007, 09:35 PM
I don't know if we can know when JDP knew. But since the rules are well publicized, and all players are expected to know them, it is in the rulebook etc., I think knowing before the match is quite possible. That doesn't mean that he tanked of course. However, since so many people found the situation to be ambiguous, it is possible that JDP did not know whether retirement counted the same way as games lost. Maybe someone else can chip in here, if JDP has said something which indicates when he learned about it.

ok, this is DP´s quote, which is quite different from Mr. Disney´s quote saying that DP said that he would have finished the match if he knew the implications of his retirement, or something like that :p

“I wanted to finish the match, but also I was not aware of the technicality of the rule. I did not feel comfortable continuing.”

BTW, I don´t think he said that in English, he probably said it in Spanish and it was translated later. ;)

I speculate that he was told about who would go through in the locker room after the match and before telling Korolev he was the one who advanced to the next round. But that´s just an speculation....

R.Federer
03-05-2007, 09:43 PM
Thanks Lau. Yes, accounting for possible transliteration, it seems that JDP had some general idea that losing to Blake with a margin of at least 6 games means Blake would go through, but maybe wasn't clear if retirement before winning 6 games = same thing.

I agree with Galathea. It is really the question of, once you did know the rules or were told the result due to the rules, what did you do?

I have always had the sense that Blake is a decent guy. I hope that it was Etienne who made a call based on some ambiguity and that it was not Blake who pressured someone to get it done for him. I would really appreciate a statement from him. It would clear this up a bit.

euroka1
03-05-2007, 10:14 PM
Simple question for de Villiers. Who called him at such a late hour :confused: ? If we are not told, we can only conclude the worst.

scoobs
03-05-2007, 10:19 PM
Why would James be worried about not having friends in the locker room if he'd done nothing wrong?

R.Federer
03-05-2007, 10:25 PM
Las Vegas, Where Round Robin Went To Die


By TOM PERROTTA
March 5, 2007

You're James Blake, second-best tennis player in America. You travel to the desert for a small tournament, first prize $61,850. You're the defending champion. At night, you play through freezing temperatures and 32 mph winds. You lose, but, hey, this is round robin, so you can take revenge on that ball tomorrow. You just have to do better than the other two guys in your group and you'll qualify for the last eight and a chance at the title. The guy who beat you loses to the guy you beat, so now anything can happen. How many games have you won and lost? Won six, lost 12. The other guy's won 17 and lost 18. So, if you beat your next opponent, an 18-year-old from Argentina, and lose no more than five games, that first guy will go home, and you'll keep playing. Gotta win big. You're on fire, and the young Argentine is having trouble breathing. You're up 6–3, 3–1. He quits. You win! You're through.

You're not? The television announcers say you're finished. So does the ATP Tour rep on site — technically you didn't win those last three games, and that first guy beat you, so tough luck for you, and good luck for the other guy, Evgeny Korolev. Then you think, hey, wait a second here, you were just knocked out of a tournament because your opponent forfeited a match. When's the last time that happened? He forfeited, not you, and you lost? That's not fair! You would have won those last three games easily! Hours pass. The ATP's president, a logical man, gets on the phone (who called him, anyway? The tournament director who had just lost his star attraction? It's a mystery…), and he agrees. That rule doesn't make sense. So he bends it until it does. Move on to the next round, James, he says, and sorry for the trouble. (And my apologies to you, Mr. Korolev. Better luck next time.) Phew! That was a close one. You feel pretty bad for that Mr. K. guy (he's only 19), but come on, you were killing that kid. Have a beer, get some sleep. Brrrng Brrrng! What's that? You're out again? The rules say what? An ATP executive cannot change a rule mid tournament, no matter how stupid it is? What a stupid rule! So, well, um … might as well hit the craps tables. More predictable. "Good luck KMan!" you shout as you peel out of the parking lot.

Ladies and gentleman, we kid you not: These events transpired at the Tennis Channel Open in Las Vegas last week (okay, fine, we embellished the part about the beer). Either Lleyton Hewitt or Jurgen Melzer won the title — the final finished after our deadline. It matters not, because this tournament likely will be remembered not for its winner, but as the event that killed round robin.

One thing is for certain: The format used in Las Vegas, a complicated three-part tournament that swings from single elimination (first round) to round robin and back to single elimination, won't exist after this year — ATP president Etienne De Villiers said so at the Australian Open. To understand why, one need only look at the opening draw of this tournament, so stuffed with names and boxes (see above) that neither players nor longtime fans could unravel it. It's a good bet that other versions of round robin (excepting the year-end Masters Cup) are finished, too. The ATP likely will take a hatchet to the whole thing at its board meeting in Miami later this month.

Most tennis fans won't miss round robins. But there's no joy in seeing the format fail miserably and no point in attacking its creators. When the ATP said it would experiment with these tournaments last year, it offered simple reasons for doing so: Fans at small events would see more of top players, and there would be fewer upsets. Plus, De Villiers said, research showed that fans liked it.

Anyone who follows the yearend Masters Cup knows why the round robin scored well in surveys. But the Masters Cup is no ordinary tournament: It invites the top eight players in the world and is, essentially, an exhibition event to cap the season. It gives the very best players a stage for a few performances; the final single-elimination round is a bonus. The problem with applying this format to larger events is these tournaments begin to look like exhibitions. It also introduces chaos. Las Vegas was not the first event hurt by a withdrawal — different, but equally unfortunate, circumstances arose in Argentina earlier this year.

For all the grief De Villiers received last week for initially ruling in favor of Blake — Marat Safin said the president "disappointed me a lot"; Lleyton Hewitt said he was "gobsmacked" by the decision — it's unfair to say, "I told you so." Round robin has had its detractors from day one, but none predicted such a forceful and, it must be said, comical unveiling of its flaws. Still, remember that this was the Tennis Channel Open, not one of the sport's major tournaments. De Villiers, who prides himself on approaching tennis with the open-mindedness of a casual fan rather than the convictions of a lifer, has said many times that he wants to tinker and learn from mistakes. Judging from the lengthy statement he issued last week apologizing for his decision to declare Blake the victor, Las Vegas has taught him a lot. This was a worthy experiment, but it's over.

tperrotta@nysun.com




http://www.nysun.com/article/49755

scoobs
03-05-2007, 10:34 PM
Great article - right on the money.