ATP Changed its mind AGAIN - Blake now OUT [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

ATP Changed its mind AGAIN - Blake now OUT

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Julio1974
03-01-2007, 10:28 PM
Does anyone know what happened? Is JMDP injured? He was not able to win service once.

Voo de Mar
03-01-2007, 10:29 PM
Is Blake in the qauarterfinal?

nanoman
03-01-2007, 10:30 PM
So, is Blake screwed ?

Julio1974
03-01-2007, 10:31 PM
I have no idea who is in the QF... this RR sucks

smucav
03-01-2007, 10:31 PM
Del Potro was having cardiac problems. He saw the physician & the trainer twice, but eventually retired.

Korolev advances to the quarterfinal from Group 1.

Shrinking Violet
03-01-2007, 10:31 PM
Del Potro could only go through if he won more than 6 games, wasn't it? Maybe he got broken in the second and figured 'screw this- I'm out anyway.'

scarecrows
03-01-2007, 10:32 PM
hahaha, another great element of the RR format that makes it so hilarious

MrJ
03-01-2007, 10:32 PM
Ouch, thats sucks!! :(

qczi
03-01-2007, 10:32 PM
if blake is out and del potro retired it must be korolev who advances, doesnt it? :shrug:

Yappa
03-01-2007, 10:32 PM
I am really starting to hate RR. Disgusting.

scoobs
03-01-2007, 10:33 PM
Cardiac problems?

whoa...what...? eeek....

Shrinking Violet
03-01-2007, 10:34 PM
Blake is OUT

I thought Blake went through if he beat Del Potro without coughing up more than 6 games? :confused: I don't know - I still haven't got the hang of all the various scenarios.

I hate RR. :(

lau
03-01-2007, 10:34 PM
Del Potro was having cardiac problems. He saw the physician & the trainer twice, but eventually retired.

Korolev advances to the quarterfinal from Group 1.

:eek: Really? :scared:
I hope it´s nothing serious and he is fine....

scoobs
03-01-2007, 10:34 PM
Blake is out because Del Potro retired?

but if Del Potro had stayed out until the end and Blake won 1 and 1 he would have progressed? That's RIDICULOUS.

scarecrows
03-01-2007, 10:34 PM
I am really starting to hate RR. Disgusting.

starting????

The Freak
03-01-2007, 10:35 PM
If Del Potro plays 3 more games, James is in the quarters, but Blake gets jobbed because the match didn't finish. Blake was playing great, and he got ripped off bad.

2moretogo
03-01-2007, 10:36 PM
It's official Blake is out. Korolev advances due to h2h. Damn shame really. This is becoming a trend.

Corswandt
03-01-2007, 10:36 PM
Blake is out because Del Potro retired?

but if Del Potro had stayed out until the end and Blake won 1 and 1 he would have progressed? That's RIDICULOUS.

If this doesn't stop this RR nonsense now, then nothing will.

MrJ
03-01-2007, 10:36 PM
Blake is OUT

Del Potro didnt complete the match so he is OUT

That leaves the other two

So they go on head to head which was won by
Korolev

If Blake had won 61 61 then Blake would have gone through

thanks, just shows what a mess this format is!!

I hope James does not play another RR tournament.

krakenzero
03-01-2007, 10:36 PM
RR did it again!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Was this the BIG joke we were expecting to make De Villiers react? I hope so...

scarecrows
03-01-2007, 10:37 PM
this is just HILARIOUS and painful

so, I go 1-6 0-5 and because I don't want an X player to go through but I want and Y player (which happens to be my good friend) I simply retire :rolleyes:

smucav
03-01-2007, 10:37 PM
The ATP supervisor has now confirmed to the TTC commentators that Korolev has advanced.

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 10:37 PM
Ooh can't wait to read the interviews.

zicofirol
03-01-2007, 10:37 PM
Blake is OUT

Del Potro didnt complete the match so he is OUT

That leaves the other two

So they go on head to head which was won by
Korolev

If Blake had won 61 61 then Blake would have gone through

Hopefully the US Press will kick up a big fuss about this

and then Round Robin gets axed

haha, great move by del potro, I bet the tournament organizers will hate him for this, at least we get another battle of the young guns, Querry vs Korolev...

martine2
03-01-2007, 10:37 PM
That's just not fair to James :mad:

F***ng RR :mad: :mad:

Yappa
03-01-2007, 10:37 PM
starting????

Yeah, I never really liked it, of course, but now that we had several weird cases with Malisse losing against Schuettler and then winning the tourney, Ferrero not qualifying due to retirement and now the same with Blake, I finally realize how shitty this system really is. Particularly the retirement cases suck.

2moretogo
03-01-2007, 10:38 PM
Is Korolev still in Vegas? This is too dumb. But all things considered Korolev did beat Blake in the first match so.... Can't wait to hear the pressers.

Shrinking Violet
03-01-2007, 10:38 PM
If Del Potro plays 3 more games, James is in the quarters, but Blake gets jobbed because the match didn't finish. Blake was playing great, and he got ripped off bad.

His presser should be interesting if that is the case. :eek:

One more nail in the RR coffin anyway.

Sorry James, but if helps kill this idiot idea then it was for the best that you got hosed today on a technicality.:wavey:

scoobs
03-01-2007, 10:39 PM
This format is risible - it's contemptible. It's beyond lousy. We have rock bottom shit, then we have 50 feet of crap, and then we get into the realms of where this shitty system is.

I was agnostic when it was introduced, I was thinking it was pathetic in Buenos Aires, and now I'm furious that it's shamefully defective in basic ways.

Clara Bow
03-01-2007, 10:39 PM
Del Potro could only go through if he won more than 6 games, wasn't it? Maybe he got broken in the second and figured 'screw this- I'm out anyway.'

Del Potro did not really look good the whole match. He looked like a winded very tall rag doll. He was moving in slooowww motion. The announcers mentioned at one point that he looked like he was about to collapse. If I heard correctly, after the the trainer was with him, he advised that they try for three more games but if he did not feel better then he should not continue.


And I wonder if JMDP even realized that if he retired, that meant Blake would not go through. It seems like some players did not understand the intricacies of Round Robin -as the BA fiasco will attest.

James was very nice and gracious in the post match comments.

I thought I would give RR a chance when it was first annouced to see how I felt about the format. I have seen it and can just say- that it sucks.

One and done outside of TMC please. And now Korolev- who played so well against Blake- will have an astrick next to his advancement.

neme6
03-01-2007, 10:40 PM
that's a huge blow to the organizers of this RR program, this is awful

Voo de Mar
03-01-2007, 10:40 PM
RR sucks. This is ridiculous :( Del Potro could stay for a three more games and Blake is in. Actually, RR-format is meaningless.

GustavoM_Fan
03-01-2007, 10:40 PM
I think Del Potro should lose the next 3 games..... :rolleyes:

Very Unfair for James Blake!!! :fiery:

RR SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

zicofirol
03-01-2007, 10:40 PM
If Del Potro plays 3 more games, James is in the quarters, but Blake gets jobbed because the match didn't finish. Blake was playing great, and he got ripped off bad.

well if he wouldn't of loss to korolev this wouldnt be an issue right? still his fault for losing to korolev...

MrJ
03-01-2007, 10:40 PM
I agree, if it takes James to get robbed like this for the format to be scrapped than im all for it!! :) :angel:

Headbump
03-01-2007, 10:41 PM
:rolls: RR rules :mad:

jeahhh!
03-01-2007, 10:41 PM
This sucks big balls!!!

scoobs
03-01-2007, 10:41 PM
I'm no cheerleader for Blake but this system has treated him shamefully today.

I wonder what his opinion on RR will be now - he was rather in favour of it IIRC.

Julio1974
03-01-2007, 10:41 PM
well, the system sucks but Korolev crushed Blake, so it's not so unfair that he advances instead of Blake who was playing against someone with cardiac problems.

SHB
03-01-2007, 10:42 PM
Del Potro would have advanced if he had sent the set to a tiebreaker, so I wouldn't think he would retire unless there was something wrong with him. Unless he had absolutely no confidence in his game.

lau
03-01-2007, 10:42 PM
I was not watching, but honestly, I don´t think Juan was thinking about RR if he retired :rolleyes:

smucav
03-01-2007, 10:42 PM
In this case it appeared that del Potro was in distress--really out of breath after short points in relatively cool conditions. Only he knows whether he could have played four more games without collapsing, but he did look like he was suffering.

The Freak
03-01-2007, 10:42 PM
After the match they interveiwed blake and all he was worried about is if Del Potro was alright. Blake is happy to back on track for Indian Wells, no matter how much he just got jobbed.

ChinoRios4Ever
03-01-2007, 10:42 PM
congrats De Villiers, you a genius :hatoff:

nooooo JMDP having cardiac problems :scared: get well soon plisss

2moretogo
03-01-2007, 10:44 PM
well if he wouldn't of loss to korolev this wouldnt be an issue right? still his fault for losing to korolev...

But you could say the same for Korolev losing to JMDP.

Clara Bow
03-01-2007, 10:44 PM
In this case it appeared that del Potro was in distress--really out of breath after short points in relatively cool conditions. Only he knows whether he could have played four more games without collapsing, but he did look like he was suffering.

Spot on. He looked really bad out there. I hope that he is not held to blame for this fiasco but rather the shitty system. Because if a player is having bad health problems- should they just stay out there when the would normally retire just to make RR look better? (And I am not just saying that because I like the kid. I like James as well and would think that no matter who was playing.)

RR is the suckiest suck that ever sucked. It just sucks!

smucav
03-01-2007, 10:46 PM
I wonder what his opinion on RR will be now - he was rather in favour of it IIRC.I was just about to post that Blake is the vice president of the ATP player council that voted to introduce round robins to begin with and has spoken favorably of the system thus far.

scoobs
03-01-2007, 10:46 PM
In this case it appeared that del Potro was in distress--really out of breath after short points in relatively cool conditions. Only he knows whether he could have played four more games without collapsing, but he did look like he was suffering.
I hope the kid is okay, I really do and cardiac problems doesn't sound good.

Nice that Blake was a) a gent about it and b) more concerned about Juan but when he has time to reflect he should be really pissed at this system.

2moretogo
03-01-2007, 10:47 PM
well, the system sucks but Korolev crushed Blake, so it's not so unfair that he advances instead of Blake who was playing against someone with cardiac problems.

Again this is tennis. You take your opponent how you get them. That's why if there is a retirement in a regular tourney, the opponent advances. They don't call their last opponent out, who got beaten and say play the rest of this match bec. such and such retired.

gaynor
03-01-2007, 10:48 PM
I was just about to post that Blake is the vice president of the ATP player council that voted to introduce round robins to begin with and has spoken favorably of the system thus far.

Who is the president?

smucav
03-01-2007, 10:48 PM
Who is the president?Ljubicic

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=4043859&postcount=10

scoobs
03-01-2007, 10:49 PM
I was just about to post that Blake is the vice president of the ATP player council that voted to introduce round robins to begin with and has spoken favorably of the system thus far.
If I know Blake as well as I think I know him from his interviews (and at times I feel I could do his interviews for him), he'll say he was disappointed he couldn't go through but hey, that's the system and it's just one of those things you have to take, in any case he was feeling good about his game, he was more concerned that Juan is okay and he's looking forward to Indian Wells.

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 10:50 PM
I watched part of the match as well. JMDP looked ill out there. He retired because it was advisable and I think JB is a big enough decent human being to not mind about this one. He really seemed concerned for JM.

ASP0315
03-01-2007, 10:51 PM
Poor JMDP i hope nothing is serious.
I also hope this shameful RR format will end in no time. It is getting ridicolous every week.

Korolev deserved to be in Quarterfinals as he defeated James Blake. C'mon Korloev make a good use of this opportunity.

ChinoRios4Ever
03-01-2007, 10:51 PM
this is tennis stupid de villiers, not Disney

tennis: YOU WIN YO GO ON, YOU LOST YOU GO HOME

Voo de Mar
03-01-2007, 10:52 PM
The one thing is cheering in this ridiculous situation: Del Potro could retired at 1-6, 1:5 (0-40) :lol:
There were cases in the past when player retired at match point for the opponent :wavey:

DustMan
03-01-2007, 10:52 PM
i dont think blake knew he wasnt advancing until after his on-court interview, so all his comments were from him assuming he was in the quarters

Labamba
03-01-2007, 10:55 PM
I was just about to post that Blake is the vice president of the ATP player council that voted to introduce round robins to begin with and has spoken favorably of the system thus far.

this is actually quite funny :lol:

Blake, a fan of RR, will get to taste how much this system really sucks.

I hope Del Potro is fine and it's not anything serious :awww:

Regenbogen
03-01-2007, 10:57 PM
I really, really detest RR. I mean I don't even like Blake but the whole way this works is just ridiculous.

I hope JMDP is okay :unsure:

Shrinking Violet
03-01-2007, 10:58 PM
I hope JMDP's illness isn't too bad. I wouldn't have imagined that they would have encouraged him to play on if it was suspected heart problems (although I remember Xavier Mallise at Wimbledon appearing to have heart problems and carrying on) so I'm hoping it was just some breathing complaint with an infection or something. Fingers crossed it's nothing too bad.

I just hope Blake doesn't chicken out of calling out this farce.

aulus
03-01-2007, 10:59 PM
:bs:

hope del potro is OK.

krakenzero
03-01-2007, 11:01 PM
Labamba
Quote:
Originally Posted by smucav View Post
I was just about to post that Blake is the vice president of the ATP player council that voted to introduce round robins to begin with and has spoken favorably of the system thus far.
this is actually quite funny

Blake, a fan of RR, will get to taste how much this system really sucks.

I hope Del Potro is fine and it's not anything serious

I agree. Simply LOOOOOOOVING this irony:devil: ...but anyway, I'm a little concerned about JMDP.

Voo de Mar
03-01-2007, 11:01 PM
this is actually quite funny :lol:

Blake, a fan of RR, will get to taste how much this system really sucks.

I hope Del Potro is fine and it's not anything serious :awww:

This is life ;) You learn on your own mistakes. I was also a follower of RR-system as a something new but today in my opinion RR sucks - after these ridiculous situations in Buenos Aires & Las Vegas...

ASP0315
03-01-2007, 11:05 PM
This is life ;) You learn on your own mistakes. I was also a follower of RR-system as a something new but today in my opinion RR sucks - after these ridiculous sutuations in Buenos Aires & Las Vegas...

Well i guess right now 99.9 % of MTF wan't this stupid RR format to be removed fast as possible. :lol:

tangerine_dream
03-01-2007, 11:07 PM
Del Potro was having cardiac problems. He saw the physician & the trainer twice, but eventually retired.
Um, yikes. That sounds scary. :scared: Hope he's okay.

I am really starting to hate RR. Disgusting.
LOL. Oh, the irony. The new RR format was designed specifically to keep the so-called "big names" in tournaments longer but now it only ends up biting the TD in the ass. Bwahaha. :devil:

Sorry for James. :hug: I hope he can manage to pull himself together when IW starts. He's got finalist points to defend.

He got screwed big time here but something like this kinda needed to happen to put the final nail in RR's coffin.

LinkMage
03-01-2007, 11:30 PM
Well, Korolev did beat Blake so I think he deserves to go through.

I don't know what more is needed to scrap this craptacular format. Thanks God it's not used in any major tournament. And I'm also glad Queens decided not to use it.

Voo de Mar
03-01-2007, 11:32 PM
nooooo JMDP having cardiac problems :scared: get well soon plisss

atptennis.com
(1)J Blake (USA) d J del Potro (ARG) 61 3-1 ret. (wrist)

:shrug:

Martin
03-01-2007, 11:33 PM
Sorry James, but if helps kill this idiot idea then it was for the best that you got hosed today on a technicality.:wavey:

Definitely agree. With what has happened both this week and last, shows exactly why RR is one of the worst ideas ever invented.

keqtqiadv
03-01-2007, 11:35 PM
:haha: RR :retard:

uglyamerican
03-01-2007, 11:38 PM
This is the last straw, I think.

...and no the American media won't care.

Clara Bow
03-01-2007, 11:42 PM
atptennis.com
(1)J Blake (USA) d J del Potro (ARG) 61 3-1 ret. (wrist)

:shrug:

That is odd. Because it initially looked like it was his wrist because they were touching his wrist. But then it showed that they were taking his pulse. Plus, he was dragging in a way that I have not seen him do in other matches.

Hmm….

Sofyaxo
03-02-2007, 12:06 AM
Blake already lost before this happened.

I can't help but be a little glad about it.

smucav
03-02-2007, 12:08 AM
atptennis.com
(1)J Blake (USA) d J del Potro (ARG) 61 3-1 ret. (wrist) :shrug:http://www.atptennis.com/1/en/scores/
(1)J Blake (USA) d J del Potro (ARG) 61 3-1 ret. (respiratory)

Voo de Mar
03-02-2007, 12:10 AM
http://www.atptennis.com/1/en/scores/
(1)J Blake (USA) d J del Potro (ARG) 61 3-1 ret. (respiratory)

Hehehe. atptennis.com is working :yeah:

Haile Selassie
03-02-2007, 12:13 AM
http://www.atptennis.com/1/en/scores/
(1)J Blake (USA) d J del Potro (ARG) 61 3-1 ret. (respiratory)

I hope he is okey

smucav
03-02-2007, 12:16 AM
Hehehe. atptennis.com is working :yeah:I saw the match so I knew it wasn't "wrist." The only time the physician touched his wrist was to take his pulse & the only thing she ever took out of her bag was a stethoscope.

idolwatcher1
03-02-2007, 12:25 AM
thanks, just shows what a mess this format is!!

I hope James does not play another RR tournament.
Three of the five tournaments that James won last year turned into RR tournaments this year (Las Vegas, Indy, and Stockholm)... So if he wants to defend those titles (and additionally, play Washington for the 6th year in a row), he'll be playing more...

MissPovaFan
03-02-2007, 12:30 AM
Blake is out because Del Potro retired?

but if Del Potro had stayed out until the end and Blake won 1 and 1 he would have progressed? That's RIDICULOUS.

What a complete joke! :mad:

I'm sure RR contributed to the joking Buenos Aires final too :sad:

drf716
03-02-2007, 01:16 AM
yay for korolev!!!

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 01:18 AM
Hahahahaha.

NyGeL
03-02-2007, 01:21 AM
Blake is out??? lol, wtf...

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 01:22 AM
Blake is out??? lol, wtf...

Yes, one of the cheerleaders for Round Robin is out.

nobama
03-02-2007, 01:37 AM
Sucks for Blake. Damn RR. :mad:

Interesting, this is what Federer said in Dubai the other day. I was a bit confused when he said it because I didn't think a retirement could cause the non-injured player NOT to come through. But we see now that's possible. It's the dumbest thing ever. And to think someone is actually being paid a better than decent salary to come up with this crap. :o

Then the more I thought about it, the more I saw of it, I was actually not so for it because I'm the classical guy who always thinks the past was great, the knock-out system in tennis is fantastic, you have one bad day you're out, you have no chance of coming back.

We see it now sometimes, if a guy gets injured, he pulls out, he doesn't allow the other guy to come through who actually would have a chance and stuff. To me it seems like it's not the right approach for tennis and I hope it's not going to happen next year.

nobama
03-02-2007, 01:38 AM
Yes, one of the cheerleaders for Round Robin is out.
Will he still be cheerleading? Let's hope not.

Jlee
03-02-2007, 01:42 AM
Are you freaking kidding me? Blake isn't going through? OMG that system is completely ridiculous!!!!

All the players need to combine in an effort to get rid of RR, James should be with that group now.

It's one thing with RR to have players losing and then going on to win tournaments, but the rules for who gets through the RR make NO SENSE.

If something like this happened in, say, Shanghai, would it be the same rule?

Merton
03-02-2007, 01:52 AM
First and most important, I hope that del Potro will be ok, there was clearly something wrong going on and it is ridiculous to suggest that there was any gaming behind the retirement.

This is the outcome that I was hoping for the RR system, now there will be some bad publicity from which hopefully the format will die a quick and uneventful death. The hilarious thing is that the ATP didn't give any thought as to the implementation of the RR format, it would be obvious that problems are unavoidable in groups of 3 players, so they should opt for groups of 4 to begin with, where the last round matches start simultaneously. This would still be horrendous for various reasons but better than the current joke, in a way I am glad that they implemented the system in such a way as to make its faults glaringly obvious at the shortest possible time.

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 01:56 AM
Of course the ATP didn't think about it and Mr.Disney who is so full of hot wind he could circumnavigate the world 30 times over and still have some wind left over, of course didn't think about it.

He thought it would bring it in more money and now it's high farce and I love that. Just hope the Vegas air hasn't made del Potro too ill?

Merton
03-02-2007, 02:04 AM
Of course the ATP didn't think about it and Mr.Disney who is so full of hot wind he could circumnavigate the world 30 times over and still have some wind left over, of course didn't think about it. He thought it would bring it in more money and now it's high farce and I love that.

Mr. Disney is very quick publicizing his ideas, I am curious to see how he handles this fiasco but I suspect that he will just say that the players don't like the format :lol:.

Just hope the Vegas air hasn't made del Potro too ill?

Del Potro could barely move, I just hope it is nothing serious.

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 02:05 AM
Apparently, Mr. Disney is changing his mind and they are moving James ahead to the QF "based on what the score would have been had the match been completed" or something like that.

This is official from TTC at the tournament. They said James is in a press conference about it right now.

smucav
03-02-2007, 02:05 AM
Now TTC is reporting that after further review, Blake will advance instead of Korolev. I didn't hear the first part of the report, but I'm sure they will say more later in the broadcast.

keqtqiadv
03-02-2007, 02:06 AM
what? :retard:

nobama
03-02-2007, 02:06 AM
So the ATP has just annouced that Blake will be going through. Mr Disney got involved. What a joke! :o

gogogirl
03-02-2007, 02:07 AM
All,

WITH Deb?! Details please. Oh that's okay - I'm off to my TV in the bedroom where I only have TTC. I'm not sure that is fair at all btw.

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 02:07 AM
what? :retard:Exactly. Never has the :retard: smiley been more appropriate!!!!!!!

keqtqiadv
03-02-2007, 02:07 AM
:retard:

nobama
03-02-2007, 02:07 AM
Apparently, Mr. Disney is changing his mind and they are moving James ahead to the QF "based on what the score would have been had the match been completed" or something like that.

This is official from TTC at the tournament. They said James is in a press conference about it right now.Ok if this doesn't end the RR farce then I don't know what will. :o

Grinder
03-02-2007, 02:07 AM
James goes through! :woohoo:

Jlee
03-02-2007, 02:08 AM
This is completely insane. That is completely unfair to change the rule after a result, even though it was a stupid rule.

Now it looks like he's giving preference to the top players!

nobama
03-02-2007, 02:08 AM
All,

WITH Deb?! Details please. Oh that's okay - I'm off to my TV in the bedroom where I only have TTC. I'm not sure that is fair at all btw.Certainly not fair to the guy who stuck around because he thought he was in the QF.

ufokart
03-02-2007, 02:09 AM
This is all depressive or hilariously stupid :retard: :retard: :retard:

They make some stupid rules and then they decide to break them just like that? :rolls:

bluefork
03-02-2007, 02:10 AM
This whole situation is a mess. I think somebody is owed a big apology after this is all over. (BTW, I'm sure De Villiers wouldn't have changed his mind if the positions were reversed :rolleyes:. Nice to be a top player.)

NicoFan
03-02-2007, 02:11 AM
This is unbelievable.

:mad:

I like James, but this is total favoritism.

I hate RR, but if that's the rules of the game right now, that's what they go by.

Let's all sing M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E. :lol:

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 02:11 AM
What a joke this, so cause Blake will sell more tickets to the finals, oh! we will let you go through to the quarters.

This has just got sillier and sillier. I mean the ATP could not organise an orgy in a brothel with a garbage bag full of $100 bills.

Clara Bow
03-02-2007, 02:11 AM
This is pathetic. The RR rules already suck. But they have the rules. But they will change it when one of the big men does not go through because of the rules.

Utter bullshit. So what holds for Ferrero does not hold for Blake. And what do you want to bet that if Blake would have been aided by a retirement then they would not have said that they could have predicted the match score and would have kept the retirement rule.

This system is an utter farce! :( I loathe it and Mr. Disney is a joke.

The little guys are getting screwed.

Now it looks like he's giving preference to the top players!

It looks like it because he is. Despicable!

I felt sorry for Blake earlier because I thought the RR rules are stupid. But I feel even more sorry for Korolev because after beating Blake, per the rules after what happened today he he was supposed to go through. But now he won't go through because they are giving preferential treatment and changing the rules at will. It is a slap in the face to all players who may not be top ten or big name players.

Merton
03-02-2007, 02:12 AM
Apparently, Mr. Disney is changing his mind and they are moving James ahead to the QF "based on what the score would have been had the match been completed" or something like that.

This is official from TTC at the tournament. They said James is in a press conference about it right now.

Deb, you are the expert, but aren't the rules binding? That phrase "based on what the score would have been had the match been completed" looks totally arbitrary, to put it mildly, so has Korolev legal ground to complain?

jcempire
03-02-2007, 02:12 AM
What the hell is that?

Why James go to play that stupid RR

drf716
03-02-2007, 02:13 AM
what?!
korolev should go through!
Round Robin sucks!
it gives you false hope

Jlee
03-02-2007, 02:13 AM
This is unbelievable.

:mad:

I like James, but this is total favoritism.

I hate RR, but if that's the rules of the game right now, that's what they go by.

Let's all sing M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E. :lol:

That's exactly what I'm saying. Not only are they giving the top players the advantage of not having single loss elimination, now they're randomly changing rules for them!!

Regenbogen
03-02-2007, 02:13 AM
WTF :retard:

This decision is the worst yet. Please just end this RR thing already :help:

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 02:14 AM
Mr. Disney is very quick publicizing his ideas, I am curious to see how he handles this fiasco but I suspect that he will just say that the players don't like the format :lol:.

They set these rules at the start of the tournament and now change them cause Blake is a big star. Fuck off.

Korolev would be loving this.

Seriously Vince McMahon would do a better job with this, at least you know with wrestling the result is predetermined.

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 02:15 AM
Deb, you are the expert, but aren't the rules binding? That phrase "based on what the score would have been had the match been completed" looks totally arbitrary, to put it mildly, so has Korolev legal ground to complain?I'm hardly an expert about this (see the Tennis Australia videos thread :haha: ), but it's unclear. That's just what the commentator was saying. They were even unclear about it all. I'm sure that throughout tonight's broadcast they will have more details so we will actually know what happened, and why. But apparently Mr. Disney was informed of the situation and sent a statement to Vegas and the ATP people on site discussed it and made this determination and that James was in a press conference at that moment about it all. So hopefully more details will be forthcoming and then we can all try to see exactly what happened.

Whether there would be legal grounds for anything, that's unclear at this point.

But one good thing might come out of this - it might be the final nail in RR's coffin. We can hope.

krystlel
03-02-2007, 02:15 AM
They can't change the rules after the match has been played. :(

If the situation was the other way around and it screwed over Korolev instead of Blake, I doubt they would have done the same thing. Although I don't think they should change the rules and apply them to matches that have already been played regardless of who gets screwed.

Grinder
03-02-2007, 02:15 AM
Yep, James is my favorite player, and while I’m happy that he gets through, objectively this is profoundly stupid and makes De Villiers and his RR format look like shit.

Breakaway
03-02-2007, 02:16 AM
This is messed up :mad:

Seriously they just need to ditch this crap idea all together! :rolleyes:

jitterbug
03-02-2007, 02:17 AM
Apparently, Mr. Disney is changing his mind and they are moving James ahead to the QF "based on what the score would have been had the match been completed" or something like that.

What, Mr Disney could see into the future now?

Korolev got screwed.. everyone got screwed :lol: the poor kid.

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 02:18 AM
Yep, James is my favorite player, and while I’m happy that he gets through, objectively this is a profoundly stupid and makes De Villiers and his RR format look like shit.

Send in the clowns
Where are the clowns

Oh, that's the ATP.

Galathea
03-02-2007, 02:18 AM
"based on what the score would have been had the match been completed" Please tell me this is a joke

So what? The RR rules are different if the player perjudicated is a Top Ten?
What's next? If the player involved is Federer, he'll go to the next round based on his zodiac sign?!
Well, no one can say this season is not full of surprises :rolleyes:

gulzhan
03-02-2007, 02:20 AM
What the hell is that?

Why James go to play that stupid RR

cause it suits him, no? :shrug: if blake did not want it, they would not do that.... if that was not korolev but even some sort of kendrick, they would not do that either...

second bad story with blake, i am putting him in black list under number 1 (above kiefer :haha:)

Caralimon
03-02-2007, 02:20 AM
There goes the ATP credibility.

RickDaStick
03-02-2007, 02:21 AM
Blake dont be a bitch and let the guy who deserves to go on actually go on.

Jlee
03-02-2007, 02:23 AM
Blake dont be a bitch and let the guy who deserves to go on actually go on.

Oh yes, because this moronic decision is definitely James' fault. :rolleyes:

NicoFan
03-02-2007, 02:23 AM
James really should decline the offer.

He won't, but he should.

I like James, but I would like him even more if he said - thanks...but no thanks.

Korolev beat me - he should go to the QFs.

EDIT: I think this is sad for him because it puts him in a bad position.

drf716
03-02-2007, 02:24 AM
they all lost once and won once
del potro retires & can't move on
korolev beat blake
korolev should go through!!!

atheneglaukopis
03-02-2007, 02:24 AM
Latest rule: Mr. Disney distributes the trophies/prize money/points to players at whim. I mean, it was and is a STUPID rule in a STUPID system, but you can't selectively enforce it! Why not give Rafa his tangent ball now, while we're at it?

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 02:24 AM
Yes, Blake shouldn't take this, but he will.

It's a rule change during the middle of a tournament to suit him.

Clara Bow
03-02-2007, 02:24 AM
"based on what the score would have been had the match been completed" Please tell me this is a joke

Granted- Del Potro was not looking good, etc. and Blake was playing well. But if the French Open Final in 2004 taught us anything- is it a'int over until it's over. You never know what might have happened if JMDP was not having health issues and needed to retire.

And I find it hilarious that how while JMDP was having issues on the court- Leif Shiras and Jimmy Arias were talking about how it was obvious he was suffering. But once he retired- they acted like they had no idea he was not at full health.

This whole thing is just going down the toilet.

ASP0315
03-02-2007, 02:25 AM
This is unbelievable.

:mad:

I like James, but this is total favoritism.

I hate RR, but if that's the rules of the game right now, that's what they go by.

Let's all sing M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E. :lol:

Exactly. They are favoring Blake because he is top ten player.:rolleyes:

Fuck you Mr Disney.

Merton
03-02-2007, 02:25 AM
I am curious to see how they handle this train wreck. I cannot think of any way they will escape this mess with a straight face so lets wait to see the incoming information.

lau
03-02-2007, 02:25 AM
:retard: WTF??!
"based on what the score would have been had the match been completed"??! WTF is that??!
I´m really sorry for Korolev.
I think this is the first time I see rules being changed after a result, just to benefit a player. :retard: :rolleyes:
It´s so wrong in so many ways...

Grinder
03-02-2007, 02:25 AM
James really should decline the offer.

He won't, but he should.

I like James, but I would like him even more if he said - thanks...but no thanks.

Korolev beat me - he should go to the QFs.

Either way someone gets screwed, if del Potro had not retired, James would have most likely at least won 6-1 6-4, that would give him a better games W/L ratio; hence he would advance. I don't think he should decline if the ATP can't get their rules straight.

EDIT: and del Potro clearly threw in the towel after Blake consilidated his break and he knew he had to really fight to win the match, who's the say if he'd broken back that he still would have retired? So many variable with this format.

drf716
03-02-2007, 02:27 AM
Breathing problems forces Blake to retire in Las Vegas
March 1, 2007
CBS SportsLine.com wire reports



LAS VEGAS -- American James Blake won his round-robin match over Juan Martin Del Potro, but was unable to advance to the quarterfinals of the Tennis Channel Open on Thursday.

Advertisement


The top-seeded Blake (1-1 in round-robin play) led 6-1 3-1 when the No. 13 seeded Argentine (also 1-1) had to retire because of respiratory distress.

Blake, the tournament's defending champion, started strong and won the first five points of the first set.

Blake had taken a 3-1 lead in the second set by winning two consecutive games and breaking a 1-1 tie. The 18-year-old Del Potro was the second teenager Blake faced at the Open. The 27-year-old Blake lost to 19-year-old Evgeny Korolev of Russia 6-2, 6-4 in his opening-round match on Tuesday.

After losing to Korolev (1-1), Blake had to defeat Del Potro in straight sets and surrender five games or fewer.

Because of Del Potro's retirement, Blake could not match the score that Korolev had recorded against him. The unseeded Korolev, who lost to Del Potro 6-3, 6-2 on Monday, advances to the quarterfinals.

Merton
03-02-2007, 02:29 AM
Latest rule: Mr. Disney distributes the trophies/prize money/points to players at whim. I mean, it was and is a STUPID rule in a STUPID system, but you can't selectively enforce it! Why not give Rafa his tangent ball now, while we're at it?

This is an excellent idea. We should pass it to Mr. Disney immediately, there is still time to continue the first set from 6-6, 6-6 with Nadal to serve.

bluefork
03-02-2007, 02:29 AM
If the ATP is going to use the logic that Blake LOOKED LIKE he was going to win and should therefore move on, they should also consider that Del Potro was not at full-health, and had he been at full-health he PROBABLY would have gotten more than five games.

And for that matter, if they're going by that logic, why don't the just give Roger Federer the trophies at the before each tournament, since we all know he's going to win anyway?

This is ridiculous.

RickDaStick
03-02-2007, 02:29 AM
Breathing problems forces Blake to retire in Las Vegas
March 1, 2007
CBS SportsLine.com wire reports



LAS VEGAS -- American James Blake won his round-robin match over Juan Martin Del Potro, but was unable to advance to the quarterfinals of the Tennis Channel Open on Thursday.

Advertisement


The top-seeded Blake (1-1 in round-robin play) led 6-1 3-1 when the No. 13 seeded Argentine (also 1-1) had to retire because of respiratory distress.

Blake, the tournament's defending champion, started strong and won the first five points of the first set.

Blake had taken a 3-1 lead in the second set by winning two consecutive games and breaking a 1-1 tie. The 18-year-old Del Potro was the second teenager Blake faced at the Open. The 27-year-old Blake lost to 19-year-old Evgeny Korolev of Russia 6-2, 6-4 in his opening-round match on Tuesday.

After losing to Korolev (1-1), Blake had to defeat Del Potro in straight sets and surrender five games or fewer.

Because of Del Potro's retirement, Blake could not match the score that Korolev had recorded against him. The unseeded Korolev, who lost to Del Potro 6-3, 6-2 on Monday, advances to the quarterfinals.

Pointless posting this. Read the last few pages of the thread first.

jitterbug
03-02-2007, 02:30 AM
Could we get an official source for the decision to let Blake advance anyway, please?

Grinder
03-02-2007, 02:30 AM
cause it suits him, no? :shrug: if blake did not want it, they would not do that.... if that was not korolev but even some sort of kendrick, they would not do that either...

second bad story with blake, i am putting him in black list under number 1 (above kiefer :haha:)

:retard:

Borat was right. :lol:

gulzhan
03-02-2007, 02:30 AM
Either way someone gets screwed, if del Potro had not retired, James would have most likely at least won 6-1 6-4, that would give him a better games W/L ratio; hence he would advance. I don't think he should decline if the ATP can't get their rules straight.

EDIT: and del Potro clearly threw in the towel after Blake consilidated his break and he knew he had to really fight to win the match, who's the say if he'd broken back that he still would have retired? So many variable with this format.

don't be stupid! :mad:

rules can not be changed after the event started, period! there are some basic principles that could not be violated by anybody for nobody for no reason, so stop saying this crap!

and this is so typical for blake, the little politician in tennis :eek: mr. disney or whatever you call him to be....

lau
03-02-2007, 02:31 AM
If the ATP is going to use the logic that Blake LOOKED LIKE he was going to win and should therefore move on, they should also consider that Del Potro was not at full-health, and had he been at full-health he PROBABLY would have gotten more than five games.

And for that matter, if they're going by that logic, why don't the just give Roger Federer the trophies at the before each tournament, since we all know he's going to win anyway?

This is ridiculous.

I was about to post the same thing :lol:

don't be stupid! :mad:

rules can not be changed after the event started, period! there are some basic principles that could not be violated by anybody for nobody for no reason, so stop saying this crap!

and this is so typical for blake, the little politician in tennis :eek: mr. disney or whatever you call him to be....
totally agree

RickDaStick
03-02-2007, 02:31 AM
Either way someone gets screwed, if del Potro had not retired, James would have most likely at least won 6-1 6-4, that would give him a better games W/L ratio; hence he would advance. I don't think he should decline if the ATP can't get their rules straight.

EDIT: and del Potro clearly threw in the towel after Blake consilidated his break and he knew he had to really fight to win the match, who's the say if he'd broken back that he still would have retired? So many variable with this format.

Yes so many variables but if the rules were enforced then Blake would not be in the quarters. Obviously, Blake moves on because he is the fan favorite at the tournament.

drf716
03-02-2007, 02:33 AM
Could we get an official source for the decision to let Blake advance anyway, please?

ye
all news are saying blake is eliminated

ASP0315
03-02-2007, 02:33 AM
Breathing problems forces Blake to retire in Las Vegas
March 1, 2007
CBS SportsLine.com wire reports



LAS VEGAS -- American James Blake won his round-robin match over Juan Martin Del Potro, but was unable to advance to the quarterfinals of the Tennis Channel Open on Thursday.

Advertisement


The top-seeded Blake (1-1 in round-robin play) led 6-1 3-1 when the No. 13 seeded Argentine (also 1-1) had to retire because of respiratory distress.

Blake, the tournament's defending champion, started strong and won the first five points of the first set.

Blake had taken a 3-1 lead in the second set by winning two consecutive games and breaking a 1-1 tie. The 18-year-old Del Potro was the second teenager Blake faced at the Open. The 27-year-old Blake lost to 19-year-old Evgeny Korolev of Russia 6-2, 6-4 in his opening-round match on Tuesday.

After losing to Korolev (1-1), Blake had to defeat Del Potro in straight sets and surrender five games or fewer.

Because of Del Potro's retirement, Blake could not match the score that Korolev had recorded against him. The unseeded Korolev, who lost to Del Potro 6-3, 6-2 on Monday, advances to the quarterfinals.

i read a similar article in ESPN's web page

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=2784958

Updated: March 1, 2007, 9:00 PM ET
Blake unable to advance in Tennis Channel OpenAssociated Press


LAS VEGAS -- American James Blake won his round-robin match over Juan Martin Del Potro but was unable to advance to the quarterfinals of the Tennis Channel Open on Thursday.

The top-seeded Blake (1-1 in round-robin play) led 6-1, 3-1 when the No. 13 seeded Argentine (also 1-1) had to retire because of respiratory distress.

Blake, the tournament's defending champion, started strong and won the first five points of the first set.

Blake had taken a 3-1 lead in the second set by winning two consecutive games and breaking a 1-1 tie. The 18-year-old Del Potro was the second teenager Blake faced at the Open. The 27-year-old Blake lost to 19-year-old Evgeny Korolev of Russia 6-2, 6-4 in his opening-round match Tuesday.

After losing to Korolev (1-1), Blake had to defeat Del Potro in straight sets and surrender five games or fewer.

Because of Del Potro's retirement, Blake could not match the score that Korolev had recorded against him. The unseeded Korolev, who lost to Del Potro 6-3, 6-2 on Monday, advances to the quarterfinals.

No. 9 Jan Hernych (2-0) of the Czech Republic advanced to the quarterfinals by winning the first set in his match against former world No. 1 Gustavo Kuerten (1-1) of Brazil. Hernych went on to win the match 6-4, 6-4 over the unseeded Kuerten.

Unseeded American Sam Querrey defeated No. 15 seed and fellow Californian Paul Goldstein, 6-4, 1-6, 6-4. Querrey had 16 aces Goldstein had none. It was the second time in two weeks that Querrey has defeated Goldstein. Querrey advances to the quarterfinals, as both he and Goldstein beat No. 6 seed Julien Benneteau of France.

No. 4 seed Jurgen Melzer (2-0) of Austria advanced to the quarterfinals by defeating Paul Capdeville (1-1) of Chile 6-2, 6-2.

Unseeded Feliciano Lopez (2-0) of Spain advanced to the quarterfinals by upsetting No. 7 Tim Henman (1-1) of Great Britain 6-7 (1), 6-3, 6-4.

Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

Jlee
03-02-2007, 02:33 AM
If the ATP is going to use the logic that Blake LOOKED LIKE he was going to win and should therefore move on, they should also consider that Del Potro was not at full-health, and had he been at full-health he PROBABLY would have gotten more than five games.

And for that matter, if they're going by that logic, why don't the just give Roger Federer the trophies at the before each tournament, since we all know he's going to win anyway?

This is ridiculous.

lol I agree to some extent. But a retirement is a win. In normal tournaments a person doesn't have to go home because their opponent retired. Basically, the rule was stupid to begin with but now everything is far worse.

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 02:35 AM
Could we get an official source for the decision to let Blake advance anyway, please?They've said it repeatedly on The Tennis Channel from the tournament. They said they're either going to talk to, or hear from, James coming soon. Three of us posted it at about the exact same minute, that's not good enough for you? :lol:

And yes, the news earlier was that James was out. It is a recent development that he is going to move on, and that's why those news things WERE correct, but are not correct ANYMORE.

Jlee
03-02-2007, 02:36 AM
Could someone post what James says about it for those who don't have TTC?

Henry Chinaski
03-02-2007, 02:36 AM
The market on betfair for tournament winner is fun. Nobody seems to know what the fuck is going on.

jitterbug
03-02-2007, 02:37 AM
Did anyone notice that the CBS Sportsline headline says: "Breathing problems forces Blake to retire in Las Vegas"? :lol:

atheneglaukopis
03-02-2007, 02:38 AM
This is an excellent idea. We should pass it to Mr. Disney immediately, there is still time to continue the first set from 6-6, 6-6 with Nadal to serve.:yeah: And since we're allowed to make retroactive changing of the rules by now based on hypotheticals, let's all not forget the bang-up job of umpiring and line-calling during Safin's serve for the match against Nalbandian in Madrid, so let's just give that to him now. And if the point were to be fair, I would say that well, it rained in Melbourne at 30-30, so we have to give that to Sela, but! There is no pretense of being fair, so in the favoritism toward players who bring in ticket sales, he gets to keep that one too. :D I like this game as long as I'm in charge.

:rolleyes: :retard: :smash:

ASP0315
03-02-2007, 02:39 AM
Did anyone notice that the CBS Sportsline headline says: "Breathing problems forces Blake to retire in Las Vegas"? :lol:

oh yes i did notice. :lol: I was pretty shocked too. :lol: :haha:

jitterbug
03-02-2007, 02:39 AM
They've said it repeatedly on The Tennis Channel from the tournament. They said they're either going to talk to, or hear from, James coming soon. Three of us posted it at about the exact same minute, that's not good enough for you? :lol:

I'm sorry but I don't have TTC. And no offense, but MTF comments aren't exactly watertight sources.

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 02:40 AM
Could someone post what James says about it for those who don't have TTC?Yes of course. Hasn't happeend yet :)

2moretogo
03-02-2007, 02:40 AM
This sucks!

Nobody wins. This is a piss poor situation and the ATP are major assholes for putting Blake in this situation.

The rules sucked to begin with, but they were the rules. ATP can't change the fucking rules during the middle of the tournament just to suit them.

They should have to sit through this shit storm, deal with the American press (ummm who don't care anyway), and lose the support of the a player who was behind this.

Instead, they choose the idoitic way, instead of admitting defeat they set a precedent that stinks. If your a top 10 player, well known, and liked by the public, than the rules of the game are fudgable.

Question is, if Blake forgos the next round, wouldn't that be treated like a walkover, therefore Goldstein would get to the semis?

atheneglaukopis
03-02-2007, 02:40 AM
And yes, the news earlier was that James was out. It is a recent development that he is going to move on, and that's why those news things WERE correct, but are not correct ANYMORE.That's advanced cognitive philosophy, Deb. Too advanced for MTF. ;)

Thanks for keeping us updated, btw.

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 02:42 AM
That's advanced cognitive philosophy, Deb. Too advanced for MTF. ;)I know, I know ;)
Thanks for keeping us updated, btw.no prob :)


I'm not getting all the James hate in the thread though. Why are people assuming he had something to do with this? Maybe it was the tournament organization who were upset about losing their #1 and star attraction? I just don't understand why people are blaming James without any evidence to suggest he had anything to do with it.

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 02:43 AM
They must wear this at the press conference.

http://www.entertainmentearth.com/images//AUTOIMAGES/MRDS107lg.jpg

Official Tournament Car

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/GeorgeWH/OfficialATPCar.jpg

Clara Bow
03-02-2007, 02:43 AM
The announcers on TTC keep saying that it is only fair to Blake. Blah, blah, blah...but could they also say that it is unfair to Korolev.

The retirement rule was stupid. But it was there. This changing of the rules at whim makes everything a joke. So what holds for some players does not hold for others. Will Mr. Disney use this sense of projection if, say at a US tourney Acasuso and Roddick were in a similar situation and Chucho was in Blake's position and Andy was in Korolev's place. I think not. The retirement rule would have stood and Andy would have gone through.

And I'm not blaming Blake in all of this- I am blaming the system and Mr. Clueless Mickey Mouse.

Jlee
03-02-2007, 02:44 AM
:hearts: Mini Cooper!

Yes of course. Hasn't happeend yet :)

Thanks Deb :worship:

RickDaStick
03-02-2007, 02:44 AM
Korolev should look into a lawsuit here. He is being screwed out of points and money that he deserves.

Henry Chinaski
03-02-2007, 02:45 AM
People are going to have a go at Blake here no matter what happens. He's in a bit of a no win situation.

And yeah I agree with Ivan, surely Korolev's lawyers are going to have something to say about this....

smucav
03-02-2007, 02:47 AM
Blake just said on TTC that the decision [to advance him] was a "common sense solution."

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 02:47 AM
ok listening in on James's presser

"common sense solution to a tough situation" - is what James said Mr. Disney said to him.

James says neither he nor JMDP knew the rules didn't know the rules and that JMDP is a good kid, seems like a fair player, and that he would've gone on to finish the match. etc., if he had known the rules.

"this is what happens with experiments, there will be flaws and things that are good, and by the end of this year we figure out the pros and cons and make a more informed decision"

He didn't really say much but you could tell he found that it was a difficult decision.Blake just said on TTC that the decision [to advance him] was a "common sense solution."the way I heard it, that's what James said that MR DISNEY said to him. (Enough James hate about this to begin with, no need to create more that isn't actually there ;))And yeah I agree with Ivan, surely Korolev's lawyers are going to have something to say about this....Based on what legal theory, exactly? :scratch:

2moretogo
03-02-2007, 02:47 AM
I'm not getting all the James hate in the thread though. Why are people assuming he had something to do with this? Maybe it was the tournament organization who were upset about losing their #1 and star attraction? I just don't understand why people are blaming James without any evidence to suggest he had anything to do with it.

They are just haters and always will be.

My beef is strictly with the ATP and how they are choosing to handle this situation. It puts Blake in a no win situation, and it sucks. This is a piss poor way to handle a tournament and it is a piss poor way to run an organization.

ASP0315
03-02-2007, 02:48 AM
Korolev should look into a lawsuit here. He is being screwed out of points and money that he deserves.

Agreed. Korlovev should immediatly take action and go for a lawsuit.

LocoPorElTenis
03-02-2007, 02:48 AM
This is sickening. de villiers is not only an utter moron, he's also an unfair criminal. Bring on the lawyers Korolev!!!! (this coming from a Blake&JMDP fan).

Merton
03-02-2007, 02:48 AM
I'm not getting all the James hate in the thread though. Why are people assuming he had something to do with this? Maybe it was the tournament organization who were upset about losing their #1 and star attraction? I just don't understand why people are blaming James without any evidence to suggest he had anything to do with it.

I completely agree. Substitute player X for James and player Y for Korolev. The rules are changed midtournament in such a way that player X gets the benefit instead of player Y. The players are irrelevant, even the tournament is irrelevant, the organization that changes its self-imposed rules arbitrarily is fully responsible for the mess.

The fact that player X happens to be a top-10 player and player Y is a youngster who only recently entered the top-100 just adds to the embarrasment of the ATP.

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 02:49 AM
This like the presidential decree. I don't like this result, therefore lets change to suit what I need.

Korolev should definitely make some noise about it. If someone goes into a tournament under an existing set of rules, they don't get changed during that tournament just cause of a superstar.

Good to see Mr.Disney is showing himself to be exactly as I thought he would be.

It's Ok for the RR poster child Blake, but not Ok for Ferrero.

Jlee
03-02-2007, 02:49 AM
ok listening in on James's presser

"common sense solution to a tough situation" - is what James said Mr. Disney said to him.

James says neither he nor JMDP knew the rules didn't know the rules and that JMDP is a good kid, seems like a fair player, and that he would've gone on to finish the match. etc., if he had known the rules.

"this is what happens with experiments, there will be flaws and things that are good, and by the end of this year we figure out the pros and cons and make a more informed decision"

He didn't really say much but you could tell he found that it was a difficult decision.

Thanks! I don't think he's been put in a very good position. What can he say really? It's not his fault the entire thing is flawed.

RickDaStick
03-02-2007, 02:50 AM
Common sense solution? WTF. If the two players positions were reversed then i guarantee you it wouldnt of turned out like this.

gulzhan
03-02-2007, 02:50 AM
The announcers on TTC keep saying that it is only fair to Blake. Blah, blah, blah...but could they also say that it is unfair to Korolev.



yep, and the beginning of this thread kept saying the same...

i just don't get it at all! :mad: why was it unfair for blake in the first place? he knew he was playing RR event! he is the only one of the top players who is so eager to support RR in fact :o if not RR, he would have been out of tourney after the first match! :mad: so, what you pleople call as unfair for blake if he would have not advanced to quaters?!!!

nobama
03-02-2007, 02:50 AM
Blake just said on TTC that the decision [to advance him] was a "common sense solution.":lol: I liked it better when he said "maybe I'm biased". And ovbviously the TTC commentators have to spew this crap about how RR is an experiment and they're happy the tour is trying new things, it was the right decision to put Blake through (read: we'd rather show you Blake than Korlovev). :o

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 02:50 AM
Commonsense solution, give me a break. How can you have a commonsense solution, when there was no commonsense to begin with in the organisation.

Breakaway
03-02-2007, 02:51 AM
I know I am not dissing Blake, I know it's not his choice. Talk about getting robbed, poor Koroloev I would get a MAJOR lawsuit in this case. You can't just change the rules to play favorites and sell tickets..

jitterbug
03-02-2007, 02:51 AM
This isn't any of the players' fault, this is about Mr Disney being :cuckoo:

TMJordan
03-02-2007, 02:52 AM
I dont know weather too laugh or cry. :silly:

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 02:52 AM
For all the people talking about SUE SUE SUE LAWSUIT LAWSUIT!

Based on what grounds exactly? You can't just sue every time something is unfair. I don't know what in the world Korolev would sue for.

Merton
03-02-2007, 02:53 AM
Common sense solution :haha: :lol: :rolls: :banana:

nobama
03-02-2007, 02:53 AM
If the players don't know the rules going into a RR event that's pretty pathetic. Anyway it's not a no-win situation, it's not a difficult situation. The rules are the rules and shouldn't be bent. If they want to change the rules, fine, but it's not fair to do it in the middle of a tournament.

ufokart
03-02-2007, 02:54 AM
:spit: :haha:

gogogirl
03-02-2007, 02:54 AM
All,

I am sooooooooooooo torn. Although over all, I think J. B. should have bowed out. Yet - they should have told everyone the ludicrous rules from jump street.

Now watch Sam Q. go on to beat James - and partly because he is a wonderful up and comer - he took a set off of James last year - and James will most likely be distracted from all of the flak he'll hear from now until then.

What a sucky-sucky situation - indeed.

Coulda' woulda' - shoulda' - again.

Nite.

L.R
03-02-2007, 02:54 AM
I dont know weather too laugh or cry. :silly:

I'm more about the crying ... :sad:
but that's cuz I'm cheering for korolev for a long time now ...
don't know what to post on my blog about all that ...

i'm just so outraged !!

and even though I like Blake I just couldn't understand him accepting to go through like that ...

keqtqiadv
03-02-2007, 02:54 AM
ridiculous :retard: :retard: :retard: :retard: :retard:

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 02:55 AM
If the players don't know the rules going into a RR event that's pretty pathetic. Anyway it's not a no-win situation, it's not a difficult situation. The rules are the rules and shouldn't be bent. If they want to change the rules, fine, but it's not fair to do it in the middle of a tournament.I think James just meant the retirement rules. I'm sure james was well aware of how many games/sets he needed to win and all that. But this is obviously a bizarre situation. And how is it NOT a no-win situation for James? It puts him in a very difficult position. It's not a no-win situation for the tournament or for Korolev or for the ATP, but I think it's definitely no-win for James.

Henry Chinaski
03-02-2007, 02:56 AM
For all the people talking about SUE SUE SUE LAWSUIT LAWSUIT!

Based on what grounds exactly? You can't just sue every time something is unfair. I don't know what in the world Korolev would sue for.

Surely the rules state quite clearly that Korolev should have gone through?

Socket
03-02-2007, 02:56 AM
For the sake of selling a few more tickets for the weekend, the ATP comes off looking like a corrupt organization that cheats its own players just to make a buck. Disgraceful. If Blake had an ounce of integrity, he would have had nothing to do with this travesty.

smucav
03-02-2007, 02:56 AM
It's really only Barry McKay on TTC that keeps saying it was a wise decision. I haven't heard Leif say anything other than to report what has occured & Jimmy has been absent since the decision was reversed. He [Jimmy] was pretty amused by the sequence of events this afternoon so it will be interesting to see if he says anything one way or the other when he returns for the singles match.

gulzhan
03-02-2007, 02:57 AM
This like the presidential decree. I don't like this result, therefore lets change to suit what I need.

Korolev should definitely make some noise about it. If someone goes into a tournament under an existing set of rules, they don't get changed during that tournament just cause of a superstar.

Good to see Mr.Disney is showing himself to be exactly as I thought he would be.

It's Ok for the RR poster child Blake, but not Ok for Ferrero.

Korolev will not make ANY noise! Because he knows it won't do any good for him... If this Mr. Disney or whatever fined Davydenko who is top player for nothing, you can only imagine what he'll do with the little Russian...

Sorry, Zhenya.... Just try to forget about this crap and move on in your tennis life!

And I just love the "RR poster child Blake", George! :haha: I hope it will be often used for the GM threads in the future :lol:

Clara Bow
03-02-2007, 02:58 AM
James says neither he nor JMDP knew the rules didn't know the rules and that JMDP is a good kid, seems like a fair player, and that he would've gone on to finish the match. etc., if he had known the rules.

I do think that is true. I commented shortly after the match that I wondered if JMDP knew the rules. And also- James was mighty chipper for someone not advancing. I think both were unclear.

If they are going to have this farcical system in place- it is their responsibility to make sure that all of the players understand it 100% You would think that after the fiasco that was BA they would have done that.

One problem that I have with the whole initial retirement rule is that what if it forces players to stay out when they really shouldn't because they don't want to look like they are screwing someone over.

Again- as I have said- the initial rule sucks. But I hate the way they did a mid-tournament turnaround. It seems like they could adjust the rule after or something.

And again- will such decisions to use "projection" be applied uniformly in the future for all players -regardless of their rankings or if they are home country faves? I don't have much faith in that.

I do agree that James is in a no-win situation. Frankly, I feel bad for all of the players in the group. If JMDP was unaware of the whole rules situation, he may have tried to stay out there further and could feel bad about that. Kolorev probably feels like he got treated unfairly.

It sucks all around.

NicoFan
03-02-2007, 02:58 AM
I think it's definitely no-win for James.

They've put James in a bad position.

He can't say 'no' because TTC Open needs him to help sell tickets.

But he also is smart enough to know that it may lower him in some fan's eyes (and maybe even in the other player's eyes? - that I'm not sure of - will be interesting to see how other player's react to it and how they react to James endorsing the decision).

If tennis was popular like (American) football or baseball, the press would have a field day with this. And it wouldn't be positive. :lol:

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 02:59 AM
Surely the rules state quite clearly that Korolev should have gone through?I don't see how deviating from the rules constitutes a contractual breach that you could sue over. the rules are deviated from all the time, every time a player gets away with breaking his racquet without a warning, etc. I don't think that would hold up in court at all. Sorry, just my opinion. It sucks for Korolev, I just don't see what's illegal about it. At least on its face.

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 02:59 AM
Surely the rules state quite clearly that Korolev should have gone through?

Of course they do.

Exhibit A: Last week in Buenos Aires with the Ferrero case. Ferrero needed to beat Lapentti to qualify for the QFs. Lapentti withdrew and was replaced by Dlouhy.

Ferrero was very pissed off about this and cause he lost the H2H match with Devilder, then Devilder went through cause he won. Ferrero sells more tickets in Argentina, but Devilder went through as he should have.

At least Disney is honest about his intentions, if you are top 10, then we'll help you and the rest can get lost.

NicoFan
03-02-2007, 03:00 AM
It's really only Barry McKay on TTC that keeps saying it was a wise decision. I haven't heard Leif say anything other than to report what has occured & Jimmy has been absent since the decision was reversed. He [Jimmy] was pretty amused by the sequence of events this afternoon so it will be interesting to see if he says anything one way or the other when he returns for the singles match.

McKay makes me crazy.

But none of them will say anything negative about it.

They are employed by TTC, and TTC wants James in.

Breakaway
03-02-2007, 03:01 AM
but I think it's definitely no-win for James.



Yes, but Blake got the benefit through this. So if anyone gets anything positive its him basically he gets a chance to defend his title after being out of the tournament. So yes, it may be awkward but it's nothing but positive for him.

The system is not flawed, the rules were clear. When they say it's an experiment yeah it's somewhat new but it's clear how it works.

The ATP look like the biggest cons ever, I wish this would be turned back over. I just hope someone takes some action through all of this and not let it just slide.

ASP0315
03-02-2007, 03:01 AM
Korolev will not make ANY noise! Because he knows it won't do any good for him... If this Mr. Disney or whatever fined Davydenko who is top player for nothing, you can only imagine what he'll do with the little Russian...

Sorry, Zhenya.... Just try to forget about this crap and move on in your tennis life!

And I just love the "RR poster child Blake", George! :haha: I hope it will be often used for the GM threads in the future :lol:

Oh yes i love see blake gets bashed everytime. :yeah: I'm sure ATP will come under fire from media.
It is time to move Zhenya. He can take a lot of positives drom this tournament. He kicked the shit out of Blake.

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 03:01 AM
They've put James in a bad position.

He can't say 'no' because TTC Open needs him to help sell tickets.

But he also is smart enough to know that it may lower him in some fan's eyes (and maybe even in the other player's eyes? - that I'm not sure of - will be interesting to see how other player's react to it and how they react to James endorsing the decision).

If tennis was popular like (American) football or baseball, the press would have a field day with this. And it wouldn't be positive. :lol:Maybe I'm just an awful cynic, but I don't see any other player refusing the spot in the QF either.Yes, but Blake got the benefit through this. So if anyone gets anything positive its him basically he gets a chance to defend his title after being out of the tournament. So yes, it may be awkward but it's not but positive for him.It's still a no-win situation, though. Because of all these questions he has to face and the situation it put him in. I disagree that it's nothing but positive for him.

Shrinking Violet
03-02-2007, 03:02 AM
This has seriously happened? Wow - poor Korolev, that's gotta suck for him.

So much for this being the final nail in the RR coffin. Instead of losing the high profile American at the American tournament we now have them changing the tournament rules midway through the tournament to avoid it happening. I don't know whether to laugh or not - it's so ridiculous and corrupt that I still can't quite accept it's legitimate.

TMJordan
03-02-2007, 03:02 AM
:retard:

Merton
03-02-2007, 03:02 AM
For all the people talking about SUE SUE SUE LAWSUIT LAWSUIT!

Based on what grounds exactly? You can't just sue every time something is unfair. I don't know what in the world Korolev would sue for.

I don't know what happens legally but from an economist's point of view the tournament participants have entered into a contract with the ATP regarding the rules of advancing each round. The ATP arbitrarily changes the contract to the detriment of a specific player who is made strictly worse off. He would be entitled to more prize money and ATP points, not to mention the option of further advancing in the tournament.

Clara Bow
03-02-2007, 03:04 AM
It's Ok for the RR poster child Blake, but not Ok for Ferrero.

Exactly- do they just bend the rules at will? That makes it seem less like a sport and more like a play altered for the desired outcome.

End this horrible RR now! I hope that some of the players make noise about it in Las Vegas like they did in BA- but I doubt it will happen.

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 03:05 AM
Maybe I'm just an awful cynic, but I don't see any other player refusing the spot in the QF either.It's still a no-win situation, though. Because of all these questions he has to face and the situation it put him in. I disagree that it's nothing but positive for him.

Blake is the only one who comes out as a winner in this situation. As for any other player, if you claim to be a cynic then tell me which other player besides Federer (not playing any RR events), Nadal, Roddick or Safin would have something like happen in their favour, cause of their marketability in the game?

NicoFan
03-02-2007, 03:06 AM
Maybe I'm just an awful cynic, but I don't see any other player refusing the spot in the QF either.

True... :lol:

I'm not criticizing James - like we've been saying, he's been put in a no-win situation. I feel bad for him.

I just wish he would have said - thanks, but no thanks. It would have been very refreshing. :lol:

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 03:06 AM
I don't know what happens legally but from an economist's point of view the tournament participants have entered into a contract with the ATP regarding the rules of advancing each round. The ATP arbitrarily changes the contract to the detriment of a specific player who is made strictly worse off. He would be entitled to more prize money and ATP points, not to mention the option of further advancing in the tournament.I'm not sure that it's true that the tournament participants have entered into a contract with the ATP. It's not a legal or economical question, it's a factual question, and I don't know the answer. And moreover, I'm not convinced that he would be able to prove "entitlement" - it's not a fundamental right to earn rankings points and make money and win tennis tournaments. I'm really not convinced a court would buy it. It's what we call "the laugh test" and I'm not sure a case about this whole thing would pass it. Obviously we don't know all the facts, we don't know what the players agree to, etc. But based on what I have observed, I don't see how there could be a viable lawsuit. It's just my opinion and I'm sure tons of legal professionals would agree, just like on every issue :lol:Blake is the only one who comes out as a winner in this situation. As for any other player, if you claim to be a cynic then tell me which other player besides Federer (not playing any RR events), Nadal, Roddick or Safin would have something like happen in their favour, cause of their marketability in the game?I didn't say that Blake didn't get something good out of this, but that doesn't mean it's ALL Good for him. I still feel it puts him in a no-win situation. to me, "no-win situation" Does not equal NOTHING good or EVERYTHING bad. I have no desire to get into the semantics of it with you so let's just agree to disagree on it.

jeahhh!
03-02-2007, 03:06 AM
Maybe I'm just an awful cynic, but I don't see any other player refusing the spot in the QF either.It's still a no-win situation, though. Because of all these questions he has to face and the situation it put him in. I disagree that it's nothing but positive for him.

I don't see any other player refusing it either.
I do think that what the ATP did here is a huge joke, although I feel for James because of the no-win situation he was put in.

Socket
03-02-2007, 03:07 AM
It's possible that the ATP will pay Korolev off with some cash under the table (a late "guarantee") to avoid a lawsuit.

I hope Bodo or Wertheim rip the tour a new one over this. It's a true embarrassment. Very short-sighted.

The players sign a contract with the tournament to play, which includes their commitment to play. The tournament, to be sanctioned by the ATP, agrees to play by ATP rules, so Korolev does potentially have a case that the tournament did not abide by the ATP's rules. I have no doubt that the ATP lacks authority to change its rules on the fly, in the middle of a tournament, simply to address the situation where the top American player is eliminated.

Clara Bow
03-02-2007, 03:08 AM
I would love to hear JCF's comments on this. :)

lynnlovestennis
03-02-2007, 03:08 AM
This is the end of RR. Everyone at the tourney -- from TTC to the umpires -- are furious.

LocoPorElTenis
03-02-2007, 03:09 AM
This is a sad day for tennis :sad: :sad: :sad:

RickDaStick
03-02-2007, 03:10 AM
This is the end of RR. Everyone at the tourney -- from TTC to the umpires -- are furious.

I doubt TTC is furious. At the end they got the guy they wanted in the QFs

Clara Bow
03-02-2007, 03:10 AM
This is the end of RR. Everyone at the tourney -- from TTC to the umpires -- are furious.

Are you there? Glad to hear that there is anger.

I have to think that after the outrage expressed last week, the fact that Queen's has changed its mind and now this latest fiasco something will be done.

Caralimon
03-02-2007, 03:10 AM
This is a sad day for tennis :sad: :sad: :sad:

I'd say it's the best.

gulzhan
03-02-2007, 03:11 AM
End this horrible RR now! I hope that some of the players make noise about it in Las Vegas like they did in BA- but I doubt it will happen.

yep, i doubt it too... and here we come to the no. 1 player... surely, fed could actively fight against RR? as he did against hawk-eye? but he prefers to ignore the RR tourneys and wait until it'll be format for the GS events :haha:

as to blake, people, please, don't feel bad for him, don't be so naive! he wanted that! if he did not want it, he would simply withdraw....

someone smart (i think aristotel :lol:) said that in a war those who keep neutrality must be executed as the guilty ones ;)

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 03:13 AM
I doubt TTC is furious. At the end they got the guy they wanted in the QFsYes, that's true, but you have to remember that TTC, unlike some of the huge conglomerations like ESPN, was founded based on the love for tennis, founded by tennis fans and players. And ultimately, I think that the powers behind TTC would not like to see something occur that #1 makes a mockery of the sport they love and #2 make a mockery of the tournament they have worked so hard to put on. TTC is a network that put on a doubles match between Aspelin/Lindstet and the Thai twins instead of putting on a "name" singles match taped from earlier in the day. TTC is dedicated to tennis, so I don't think it quite is that simple for them.as to blake, people, please, don't feel bad for him, don't be so naive! he wanted that! if he did not want it, he would simply withdraw....I can only speak for myself, but I don't feel badly for him. He gets to play in the QF and have a shot at defending his title. No reason to feel badly for him. But that said, it's still possible to recognize the difficult situation he's in. Doesn't mean I feel badly for him but I recognize it.

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 03:13 AM
Blake is a winner out of this situation, though very tainted and as someone said it will be interesting how his peers will see him after this situation.

"Oh! here's the guy, cause he is a homer and is a big fish, he gets protected", then again it's just a reconfirmation of what we already know. As for whether he should accept it, well it's his choice and if he wins the event I hope he praises the RR system that allowed him to defend his title.

LocoPorElTenis
03-02-2007, 03:14 AM
I'd say it's the best.

You are assuming that de villiers will realize his huge mistake and reverse course... however, every step that's taken makes the situation worse, not better.

NicoFan
03-02-2007, 03:16 AM
I would love to hear JCF's comments on this. :)

Me too.... :lol:

Though I doubt anything could top his comment after the BA fiasco. :haha:

bluefork
03-02-2007, 03:16 AM
At this point, I think the best course of action would be to allow Blake to go through to the quarterfinals (if they re-reversed the decision, it would be even more of a mockery), guarantee Korolev the ranking points and prize money he should have gotten from reaching the quarters, and CANCEL THE REST OF THE ROUND ROBIN THIS YEAR.

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 03:18 AM
Yes, the decision is done now and I think some of the TD's might want to get off the RR bandwagon.

Caralimon
03-02-2007, 03:18 AM
You are assuming that de villiers will realize his huge mistake and reverse course... however, every step that's taken makes the situation worse, not better.

Post tenebras lux.

I'm more confident now. I hope someone steps up and does some noise.

gulzhan
03-02-2007, 03:18 AM
I can only speak for myself, but I don't feel badly for him. He gets to play in the QF and have a shot at defending his title. No reason to feel badly for him. But that said, it's still possible to recognize the difficult situation he's in. Doesn't mean I feel badly for him but I recognize it.


well, politicians and their toys often put themselves into difficult positions because they play dirty, they have to :shrug: he'll handle it ok, that's what he is planning to do for the living in future ;)

smucav
03-02-2007, 03:19 AM
They've put James in a bad position.

He can't say 'no' because TTC Open needs him to help sell tickets.

But he also is smart enough to know that it may lower him in some fan's eyes (and maybe even in the other player's eyes? - that I'm not sure of - will be interesting to see how other player's react to it and how they react to James endorsing the decision).You have to wonder how much Blake argued or complained between the time the original decision was made & reversed (3 1/2 hours or less).

As several posters pointed out earlier in the thread, Blake seemed to think he was advancing when he made those comments about del Potro's health during his on-court interview. When he was packing up his gear, he started talking with some person off-camera. [The commentators were now talking so the off-court mikes were off, but the camera stayed on Blake.] He became visibly upset as the conversation went on & appeared to be protesting/arguing with the person. It was only minutes later that the Meike reported to Leif & Jimmy that the ATP superviser (Mark Darby) & the tournament director had just finished meeting to review the rules & determined that Korolev was advancing. It's not that big of a leap to guess that the off-camera person was the supervisor informing Blake of the decision & that's why he was getting upset. (Who else could he have been arguing with on court after winning the match? Wayne Bryan walked off in the other direction & the umpire was behind Blake packing up his equipment.)

If Blake had accepted that decision at that point & left it at that would the decision have been overruled?

2moretogo
03-02-2007, 03:21 AM
Zhenya is a member of the ATP and as such certain rights and duties are assigned to those parties. ATP is in breach of its contractual duties to

Zhenya that certain rules before he entered a tournament would be followed, yet they were changed afterwards to his detriment.

Entitlement? You bring up an interesting point, but I would put the question that under the rules, Zheyna already advanced, therefore ATP/Disney advancing another player instead of him, give him actual damages ie: that he would have at least made it to the quaterfinal round gotten the points and the money. He would be entitled to those damages bec. there is a difference between RR, and quarterfinal money and points which he would be entitled to under the rules.

This would definately pass the "laugh test." Because his damages were real.

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 03:22 AM
You have to wonder how much Blake argued or complained between the time the original decision was made & reversed (3 1/2 hours or less).
....

If Blake had accepted that decision at that point & left it at that would the decision have been overruled?We don't know, and unless and til we find out what DID go down, it would be unfair to all involved to start throwing blame around. Of course James was upset, he thought he was moving on and found out he wasn't, so of course he would get upset. But I think it's a big stretch to assume that he then argued about it and lobbied for a change.

I'm sure we've all had moments where right after we find out something we don't like, we're upset and unhappy but we calm down soon thereafter.Zhenya is a member of the ATP and as such certain rights and duties are assigned to those parties. ATP is in breach of its contractual duties to

Zhenya that certain rules before he entered a tournament would be followed, yet they were changed afterwards to his detriment.

Entitlement? You bring up an interesting point, but I would put the question that under the rules, Zheyna already advanced, therefore ATP/Disney advancing another player instead of him, give him actual damages ie: that he would have at least made it to the quaterfinal round gotten the points and the money. He would be entitled to those damages bec. there is a difference between RR, and quarterfinal money and points which he would be entitled to under the rules.

This would definately pass the "laugh test." Because his damages were real.Suffering real damage doesn't make something pass the laugh test. The laugh test I spoke of is in discerning whether the legal claim itself is legally viable, not whether someone suffered damages. I am still not convinced that it is a legally viable issue. We have no way to know unless we read the contracts the players sign with the ATP. We are not privy to that, so assuming that there is a breach of contract here is just that, an assumption without facts. Maybe there are things that we are unaware of that would lay the groundwork for him to have a valid legal claim, but the facts as we know them right now don't appear that way, to me. You can't just assume that a deviation from the rules is a breach of contract.

gulzhan
03-02-2007, 03:22 AM
At this point, I think the best course of action would be to allow Blake to go through to the quarterfinals (if they re-reversed the decision, it would be even more of a mockery), guarantee Korolev the ranking points and prize money he should have gotten from reaching the quarters, and CANCEL THE REST OF THE ROUND ROBIN THIS YEAR.

first part :haha:

second part--- I WISH! :o

i can bet my all real money that won't happen :lol: more chances to expect bush come out and say i end my experiment in iraq :haha:

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 03:22 AM
Whose to say that Blake didn't bitch about the decision and was able to get it reversed in his favour. He might have, he might not have, doubtful anything would come through to clear that piece of speculation up.

LocoPorElTenis
03-02-2007, 03:23 AM
Post tenebras lux.

I'm more confident now. I hope someone steps up and does some noise.

As a former proponent of RR and vicepresident of the players' association, I'm hoping Blake will make a whole lot of noise. But with this carrott that's been now extended to him maybe he'll be appeased. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes right now but I hope he speaks out.

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 03:24 AM
As a former proponent of RR and vicepresident of the players' association, I'm hoping Blake will make a whole lot of noise. But with this carrott that's been now extended to him maybe he'll be appeased. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes right now but I hope he speaks out.

The RR poster child won't speak out against something that has favoured him greatly.

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 03:27 AM
Whose to say that Blake didn't bitch about the decision and was able to get it reversed in his favour. He might have, he might not have, doubtful anything would come through to clear that piece of speculation up.yes, maybe he did and maybe he didn't, but we have no evidence to suggest he did, so I think it would be very unfair to him to assume he did, even if you don't like him. :)

gulzhan
03-02-2007, 03:28 AM
Zhenya is a member of the ATP and as such certain rights and duties are assigned to those parties. ATP is in breach of its contractual duties to

Zhenya that certain rules before he entered a tournament would be followed, yet they were changed afterwards to his detriment.



i envy you :o never faced legal system? i'd say you never faced any official in your life other than your parents ;) try to sue them next time they put you in detention or change the rules after the game started :haha:

no, korolev can do nothing and it's better if he does nothing.. better for his tennis future of course... the only people who could do something are blake and fed, but they won't... bad for tennis :sad:

NicoFan
03-02-2007, 03:29 AM
You have to wonder how much Blake argued or complained between the time the original decision was made & reversed (3 1/2 hours or less).

As several posters pointed out earlier in the thread, Blake seemed to think he was advancing when he made those comments about del Potro's health during his on-court interview. When he was packing up his gear, he started talking with some person off-camera. [The commentators were now talking so the off-court mikes were off, but the camera stayed on Blake.] He became visibly upset as the conversation went on & appeared to be protesting/arguing with the person. It was only minutes later that the Meike reported to Leif & Jimmy that the ATP superviser (Mark Darby) & the tournament director had just finished meeting to review the rules & determined that Korolev was advancing. It's not that big of a leap to guess that the off-camera person was the supervisor informing Blake of the decision & that's why he was getting upset. (Who else could he have been arguing with on court after winning the match? Wayne Bryan walked off in the other direction & the umpire was behind Blake packing up his equipment.)

If Blake had accepted that decision at that point & left it at that would the decision have been overruled?

I'm with Deb on this. Of course James would be upset. And the guys as we've seen so far this year don't understand the rules any better than we do.

It's a leap to think that he lobbied to be able to move on. I'd like to think that James isn't the type of person that would do something like that. Maybe I'm being naive. I hope not.

I don't know if we'll ever know what really happened. :shrug:

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 03:29 AM
yes, maybe he did and maybe he didn't, but we have no evidence to suggest he did, so I think it would be very unfair to him to assume he did, even if you don't like him. :)

Yes, I dislike Blake that's a good one baby.

Why wouldn't a player of influence use it at some point to gain advantage, not saying it's right, but it happens. So tell me Deb san who apart from those big 6 players I mentioned would have the possibility of getting a result changed in their favour? As I said in my previous point, even used the word speculation to make it clear.

Rosa Luxembourg
03-02-2007, 03:33 AM
unfair? Korolev did beat Blake, right? quite convincingly I might add. so what is all fuss about?

jeahhh!
03-02-2007, 03:34 AM
I think its unfair to bitch about James bitching (if he did) because I am sure anyone would have been upset if they were in Jame's place earlier.

Merton
03-02-2007, 03:35 AM
The situation would be exactly the same if, say, Guga was the beneficiary and Spadea the wronged person. In a sense, James is unlucky because there is no way that he can come looking good out of the situation. It is a big stretch to accuse him of orchestrating this fiasco without solid evidence, the ATP is totally to blame here.

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 03:35 AM
Yes, I dislike Blake that's a good one baby.

Why wouldn't a player of influence use it at some point to gain advantage, not saying it's right, but it happens. So tell me Deb san who apart from those big 6 players I mentioned would have the possibility of getting a result changed in their favour? As I said in my previous point, even used the word speculation to make it clear.i think any player would argue about it and object. just common sense if you think that the rules wronged you. I don't understand what you're asking me, and I don't see how it's relevant. I think every single player, no matter what his name and ranking is, would have questioned what happened today and would have been upset about it.

By all intents and purposes, because a retirement is normally counted as a win on tour, James SHOULD have moved on. It just so happened there was this quirk in the RR rule that a retirement would be thrown out. I can see why neither James nor JMDP would have been completely unaware of it, and I can see why James would have been upset upon finding it out. But saying he was upset is a far cry from saying he actually tried to get them to change their minds.unfair? Korolev did beat Blake, right? quite convincingly I might add. so what is all fuss about?See above. A retirement always counts as a win, a regular win, even in h2h calculations. James won the match, he won it in straights, and he won with a good enough games ratio such that without this bizarre quirk, he *should* have gone on. The question is not that Korolev beat Blake in their direct match, the question is, WTF is this retirement rule that makes no sense. That's why James was (rightfully) upset.

Of course, there are rules that are enacted that once implemented we find are mistakes all the time. The rule shouldn't have been changed mid-course. That's why we're upset. But if the rule hadn't existed and James had just uneventfully moved on, I don't think anyone here would've thought twice about that.

L.R
03-02-2007, 03:35 AM
I think its unfair to bitch about James bitching (if he did) because I am sure anyone would have been upset if they were in Jame's place earlier.

Ferrero wouldn't have been this week since he knows the retirement rule from last week !!

Henry Chinaski
03-02-2007, 03:35 AM
unfair? Korolev did beat Blake, right? quite convincingly I might add. so what is all fuss about?


haha. perfect example of someone reading the first post in a thread only and replying.

LocoPorElTenis
03-02-2007, 03:36 AM
unfair? Korolev did beat Blake, right? quite convincingly I might add. so what is all fuss about?

FYI, Blake is through the QFs even though according to ATP's own moronic rules Korolev won the group. Welcome to RR.

Voo de Mar
03-02-2007, 03:36 AM
The RR rules and breaking these rules in this group are probably the biggest stupidity I've ever seen on the ATP tour. This tournament in LV is a fucking & pathetic joke :shrug:

smucav
03-02-2007, 03:39 AM
It's a leap to think that he lobbied to be able to move on. I'd like to think that James isn't the type of person that would do something like that. Maybe I'm being naive. I hope not.I never said that he did lobby, just that I wondered if he did & what influence it had on the reversal.

I don't know if we'll ever know what really happened. :shrug:I think this won't be the end of this by far. Even if no players speak out, I suspect we'll eventually hear something more about what happened it from Bodo (or someone).

L.R
03-02-2007, 03:40 AM
By all intents and purposes, because a retirement is normally counted as a win on tour, James SHOULD have moved on. It just so happened there was this quirk in the RR rule that a retirement would be thrown out.

I think it's here you're mistaken (no offense), James wasn't out because of the retirement, he was out because he's been unable during the match time to score enough games to reach a higher game average than Korolev.
Sure the retirement is counted as a win, but it makes every player in the group scoring 1 victory ... so the decision is made based on game average ... and that made Korolev being #1 in the group...

Socket
03-02-2007, 03:42 AM
The newswires have already reported that Blake will not advance, so hopefully, the tour will have 'splaining to do. . .

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 03:42 AM
I think it's here you're mistaken (no offense), James wasn't out because of the retirement, he was out because he's been unable during the match time to score enough games to reach a higher game average than Korolev.
Sure the retirement is counted as a win, but it makes every player in the group scoring 1 victory ... so the decision is made based on game average ... and that made Korolev being #1 in the group...If I'm wrong, then by all means correct me, no offense taken. But that's not what I understood from the articles. What I understood was that the retirement results were discounted for del potro, which is why it then went to the head-to-head. I've seen no mention of games ratio. The reason every article and every news piece says that Korolev was supposed to move on was because he beat James in their direct match.

If someone has any confirmation of this, please post.

from the AFP: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070301/sp_afp/tennisatpusa_070301230304

"Blake, Del Potro and Russia's Evgeny Korolev each won once in their group, but Del Potro was eliminated because he retired from his defeat, meaning the quarter-final berth went to the winner of the Blake-Korolev match."

I mean the thought of counting James's victory due to retirement but DIScounting del Potro's LOSS because of retirement makes ABSOLUTELY ZERO SENSE.

gulzhan
03-02-2007, 03:42 AM
The situation would be exactly the same if, say, Guga was the beneficiary and Spadea the wronged person. In a sense, James is unlucky because there is no way that he can come looking good out of the situation. It is a big stretch to accuse him of orchestrating this fiasco without solid evidence, the ATP is totally to blame here.

oh yes, bad luck :o little politicians should always look good, right? ;) then stop playing tennis and go to the congress, shitty blake! :mad:

smucav
03-02-2007, 03:43 AM
http://www.tennis.com/news/ticker.aspx
An ATP decision sends Blake through to the Lav Vegas quarterfinals after it initially appeared Korlev would win the round-robin group when del Potro retired in his match against Blake.

Because of round-robin rules regarding matches in which one player retires, Blake and Korolev would have been left tied in their round-robin group, with Korolev going through becase he defeated Blake in their head-to-head match.

"James Blake will be awarded the group win on the basis that the rules were not sufficiently explained. James was within just a few games of winning this match comfortably to advance. Juam Martin has stated that he would have completed the match had he been fully aware of the implications of his retirement," said a statement by ATP chief Etienne de Villiers.

Merton
03-02-2007, 03:44 AM
By all intents and purposes, because a retirement is normally counted as a win on tour, James SHOULD have moved on. It just so happened there was this quirk in the RR rule that a retirement would be thrown out. I can see why neither James nor JMDP would have been completely unaware of it, and I can see why James would have been upset upon finding it out. But saying he was upset is a far cry from saying he actually tried to get them to change their minds.See above. A retirement always counts as a win, a regular win, even in h2h calculations. James won the match, he won it in straights, and he won with a good enough games ratio such that without this bizarre quirk, he *should* have gone on. The question is not that Korolev beat Blake in their direct match, the question is, WTF is this retirement rule that makes no sense. That's why James was (rightfully) upset.

Of course, there are rules that are enacted that once implemented we find are mistakes all the time. The rule shouldn't have been changed mid-course. That's why we're upset. But if the rule hadn't existed and James had just uneventfully moved on, I don't think anyone here would've thought twice about that.

I disagree there, it is easy to construct examples where bizzare things will happen even if the rule changes in the direction you propose, especially in the deciding match of the RR change. For example, suppose that James is up 7-5, 2-1 and Del-Potro holds serve to go 2-2. What are the incentives for James not to retire? The system is fundamentally flawed when there are 3 players in a group, give me any set of rules and I will come with an outcome that is, lets say, undesirable. :)

Merton
03-02-2007, 03:46 AM
The rules were not sufficiently explained!!!111!! (Warning: Rant begins: This is the so called assumption of stupidity. Agents are not fully aware of their information set: Rant ends:)

ufokart
03-02-2007, 03:47 AM
http://www.tennis.com/news/ticker.aspx

:haha: :haha: :haha:

Priceless :lol:

L.R
03-02-2007, 03:48 AM
If I'm wrong, then by all means correct me, no offense taken. But that's not what I understood from the articles. What I understood was that the retirement results were discounted for del potro, which is why it then went to the head-to-head. I've seen no mention of games ratio. The reason every article and every news piece says that Korolev was supposed to move on was because he beat James in their direct match.

If someone has any confirmation of this, please post.

I'm gonna try to find more on that ... cuz even though I read what I said in articles that came out after last week fiasco I have to admit I can't say that for a 100% sure ...

EDIT : Deb, after seeing your post all I can say is : :help:

Deboogle!.
03-02-2007, 03:48 AM
I disagree there, it is easy to construct examples where bizzare things will happen even if the rule changes in the direction you propose, especially in the deciding match of the RR change. For example, suppose that James is up 7-5, 2-1 and Del-Potro holds serve to go 2-2. What are the incentives for James not to retire? The system is fundamentally flawed when there are 3 players in a group, give me any set of rules and I will come with an outcome that is, lets say, undesirable. :)What I'm saying is, the retirement should have been counted as a victory for James and a defeat for del potro. Then you have all guys that are 1-1, you can't really count sets because the final set of James/JMDP wasn't completed, so you go to games ratio. If James had a better games ratio, he should've moved on, no drama. I wasn't suggesting that winning by retirement should have automatically moved him on. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

If the blurb from the AFP that I posted was wrong and that I misunderstood what happened, please forgive me, I was only going by what I read there and that I thought that del potro's defeat was not counted, thus he was eliminated, thus it was determined based on the blake/korolev h2h and I disagree with that rule. This is all very confusing and I think we are having some trouble understanding each other because of that.

Voo de Mar
03-02-2007, 03:48 AM
"The ATP will be awarding Evgeny Korolev the amount of $11,375, the average sum of the prize money for the quarter-finals and semi-finals at this event."

:haha: This event is really ridiculous :drive:
ZZ Top :singer: "Viva Las Vegas" :music: :rocker2:

Merton
03-02-2007, 03:48 AM
oh yes, bad luck :o little politicians should always look good, right? ;) then stop playing tennis and go to the congress, shitty blake! :mad:

It just happened to be him in that situation, in that sense, yes, it is bad luck.:shrug:

LocoPorElTenis
03-02-2007, 03:48 AM
http://www.tennis.com/news/ticker.aspx

De Villiers is the biggest :retard: ever and a complete disgrace to tennis.
Sure, JMDP would have disobeyed medical advice and risked his life to save the face of the pathetic system De Villiers instituted "had he known the implications". :rolleyes:
What a moronic, liar, unfair, full-of-sh*t this mr disney is!!! :mad: