So... How Was It That Nadal Was Able To Win 2 Hardcourt TMS Events In 2005?? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

So... How Was It That Nadal Was Able To Win 2 Hardcourt TMS Events In 2005??

Jaffas85
03-02-2007, 12:16 PM
Explain to me how despite the fact that Nadal can be at times vulnerable on hardcourts, yet in 2005, at the age of 18, he won a TMS event in Montreal and one also in Madrid??

I mean, Where were Blake, Berdych, Federer, Youzhny and Roddick etc. when all of this was going on? Especially Montreal because that year he was defeated in the 3rd round of the U.S. Open yet he was capable of winning the Rogers Cup?

So in 2005 when he was winning these TMS hardcourt events was it because of a weakened field of players or was Nadal playing with less fear then? Or were the other players just unadjusted to his style and uncertain about how to approach him? Or all of the above?

Who actually watched these tournaments?

Thanks.

Thanks.

Rogiman
03-02-2007, 12:20 PM
So in 2005 when he was winning these TMS hardcourt events was it because of a weakened field of players ?yes

Byrd
03-02-2007, 12:21 PM
Two weak fields, playing Ivan 'the choker' Ljubicic in one final and old man Agassi in the other.

Jaffas85
03-02-2007, 12:25 PM
Two weak fields, playing Ivan 'the choker' Ljubicic in one final and old man Agassi in the other.

How is it that so many top ranked high quality players managed to be sick or injured when both of these two TMS events were on?

Federer didn't play either one did he that year? What of the other players I mentioned that usually pose problems for Nadal like Blake, Berdych and Youhzny and even Roddick... where were they?

Byrd
03-02-2007, 12:31 PM
How is it that so many top ranked high quality players managed to be sick or injured when both of these two TMS events were on?

Federer didn't play either one did he that year? What of the other players I mentioned that usually pose problems for Nadal like Blake, Berdych and Youhzny and even Roddick... where were they?

Because Toronto the first TMS back, alot of the players either missed it as they were playing the US open series of tournaments and needed a rest so they could play cincinatti as toronto and cincinatti are back to back, and some players were injured or wanted more rest after wimbledon. The end of 2005 was pretty bad for withdrawals and most players didn't bother turning up for the last two TMS hence weak fields and nadal and berdych winning the tourneys.

RonE
03-02-2007, 12:47 PM
A few things:

1.) Nadal was on the rise- everything was still new to him and he was happy-go-lucky with no expectations to do well and win on all surfaces certainly not away from the clay.

2.) His gamestyle was still taking people by surprise, players were at that stage adapting and getting used to playing him.

3.) As was mentioned in the two TMS he won he didn't face players who were bad match ups for him. Here is how his run to both titles looked:

Montreal:
R64: Carlos Moya
R32: Ricardo Mello
R16: Sebastien Grosjean
QF: Mariano Puerta
SF: Paul-Henri Mathieu
F: Andre Agassi

Madrid:
R64: BYE
R32: Victor Hanescu
R16: Tommy Robredo
QF: Radek Stepanek
SF: Robby Ginepri
F: Ivan Ljubicic

TheMightyFed
03-02-2007, 01:10 PM
Maybe stopped playing with his blood after Wimbledon 06 when Dr Fuentes got caught...

Puschkin
03-02-2007, 01:27 PM
This is getting absurd. I am not a Nadal-fan and I hardly post in threads concerning him, but using his current form to take away his achievements from 2005 is bizarre. You can only win against the players the draw puts up against you. If other players avoided those tournaments for whatever reasons, it is not his fault. He won two Masters on hardcourt in 2005 fair and square.

Byrd
03-02-2007, 01:32 PM
This is getting absurd. I am not a Nadal-fan and I hardly post in threads concerning him, but using his current form to take away his achievements from 2005 is bizarre. You can only win against the players the draw puts up against you. If other players avoided those tournaments for whatever reasons, it is not his fault. He won two Masters on hardcourt in 2005 fair and square.

No one is taking his achievements away, a question was asked on how he managed to win two TMS hardcourt tourneys in 2005 and everyone is giving their opinion of it.

Alvarillo
03-02-2007, 01:38 PM
ridiculous :lol:

Puschkin
03-02-2007, 01:44 PM
No one is taking his achievements away, a question was asked on how he managed to win two TMS hardcourt tourneys in 2005 and everyone is giving their opinion of it.
Then I interpreted the question wrongly, for me it had a derogatory tone in it, thus my answer.

adee-gee
03-02-2007, 02:48 PM
Then I interpreted the question wrongly, for me it had a derogatory tone in it, thus my answer.
Of course it did. You interpreted it 100% correctly.

vincayou
03-02-2007, 02:58 PM
That was before the hawk eye system.

:p

FluffyYellowBall
03-02-2007, 04:36 PM
sorry but i dont believe in the 'players figured him out' theory. If players figured him out federer would have done that ages ago and when ur on the court its not the same. U might know what to do tactically against him but how many times have players failed to do that? At his age, im sure its just confidence. The thing is hes facing tougher draws which he got away with sometimes back in 05 and it seems like hes only slipping but its barely been 8 months since the wimbledon final! He can go on lke this even for another year and still come back to # 2 or 1

TennisGrandSlam
03-02-2007, 04:48 PM
Because his heavy top spin is strongest ever. :devil:

marcRD
03-02-2007, 04:49 PM
He didnt face any power players. Ljubicic in Madrid still is his most impressive performance on hardcourt ever, Ljubicic played really great and his serve was on fire. THe crowd did help ofcourse, but to come back from 0-2 against a bigserver on fire like Ljubo is an achievment.

Ofcourse Ljubo is not so much a powerplayer from the baseline compared to Blake, Berdych, Gonzales and Youzhny.

marcRD
03-02-2007, 04:53 PM
Today Nadal is a better player than he was in 2005, but he cant win against a powerplayer. In 2005 Berdych almost beat him on clay in Bastad and then he lost against Berdych in cincy and Blake in USopen. Not much has changed since then, If you have a big serve, a quite good backhand and a hell of a forehand (or a hell of a backhand like Youzhny) there is not much Nadal can do while you are playing great.

Peacemaster
03-02-2007, 04:55 PM
How is it that so many top ranked high quality players managed to be sick or injured when both of these two TMS events were on?

Federer didn't play either one did he that year? What of the other players I mentioned that usually pose problems for Nadal like Blake, Berdych and Youhzny and even Roddick... where were they?

Roger's injuries were well publicized for both of these events. He was injured quite a bit during the second half of the year.

For the rest, it took them a while to come up with a game plan to stem the Nadal effect.

And, above all, a loss breeds other losses...

*julie*
03-02-2007, 05:02 PM
How is it that so many top ranked high quality players managed to be sick or injured when both of these two TMS events were on?

Federer didn't play either one did he that year? What of the other players I mentioned that usually pose problems for Nadal like Blake, Berdych and Youhzny and even Roddick... where were they?

In Montréal 2005, Nadal won it because he was the best player out there and only Federer was missing.

Berdych out in the second round against Davydenko.
Blake out in the second round against Stepanek.
Youzhny out in the first round against Gasquet.
Roddick lost in the first round in straight sets, defeated by PHM who then reached the semies and lost in straight sets against Nadal.

I guess it was the same kind of things in Madrid as all these players were there too but lost in the early rounds.

So, it wasn't not because of a weak field but the players you mentionned were just weaker than Nadal at that time.

victory1
03-02-2007, 05:10 PM
In Montréal 2005, Nadal won it because he was the best player out there and only Federer was missing.

Berdych out in the second round against Davydenko.
Blake out in the second round against Stepanek.
Youzhny out in the first round against Gasquet.
Roddick lost in the first round in straight sets, defeated by PHM who then reached the semies and lost in straight sets against Nadal.

I guess it was the same kind of things in Madrid as all these players were there too but lost in the early rounds.

So, it wasn't not because of a weak field but the players you mentionned were just weaker than Nadal at that time.

:worship: Here speak the voice of reason!:worship:

Havok
03-02-2007, 06:38 PM
Weakened fields definitely helped him out to win the TMS shields in Canada and Madrid, but Nadal was playing very good tennis that year on all surfaces (except grass of course) so not many players would have been able to defeat him regardless.

Many people are forgetting the Nasdaq 2005 finals where he was up 2-0 in sets vs the great Federer and royaly fucked up that match and lost it in 5. The man can play on the hardcourts and that year people were still getting used to his style of play and/or playing him for the very first time. He also had the fear factor going on because he and Federer won EVERYTHING that year. 2006 was a whole different story, what with people getting more used to his style, the fear factor diminishing, and a whole slew of players finding their games once again/young guns starting to become of age so loses were more of a norm for him on the hardcourts.

Havok
03-02-2007, 06:45 PM
In Montréal 2005, Nadal won it because he was the best player out there and only Federer was missing.

Berdych out in the second round against Davydenko.
Blake out in the second round against Stepanek.
Youzhny out in the first round against Gasquet.
Roddick lost in the first round in straight sets, defeated by PHM who then reached the semies and lost in straight sets against Nadal.

I guess it was the same kind of things in Madrid as all these players were there too but lost in the early rounds.

So, it wasn't not because of a weak field but the players you mentionned were just weaker than Nadal at that time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Davydenko the higher seed there?:retard:

Montreal 2005 was a weak-ass field with loads of players losing early, other players simply were stuck in a rut (Roddick anybody?:tape: ) and others simply missing, and Nadal ended up with a sqeaky clean draw all the way to the finals. Moya had the goods to take him out, but hit so many silly errors (watched that match live). PHM gave him a run for his money if memory serves me. The Agassi win was good, even if Andre was an old fart in 2005.

Nobody really stepped up in 2005 so Nadal had his way with many people, even on the hardcourts. He needs to get better and learn how to actually smack serves down if he wants to win titles like these again.

zicofirol
03-02-2007, 06:46 PM
In Montréal 2005, Nadal won it because he was the best player out there and only Federer was missing.

Berdych out in the second round against Davydenko.
Blake out in the second round against Stepanek.
Youzhny out in the first round against Gasquet.
Roddick lost in the first round in straight sets, defeated by PHM who then reached the semies and lost in straight sets against Nadal.

I guess it was the same kind of things in Madrid as all these players were there too but lost in the early rounds.

So, it wasn't not because of a weak field but the players you mentionned were just weaker than Nadal at that time.

but his draw was very weak, very weak, this year and last year he just started playing those players which he had the fortune of avoiding before, that "luck" ran out and he started facing the power players more and they can beat him...

GlennMirnyi
03-02-2007, 06:48 PM
The draw of Madrid says it all: Hanescu, Ginepri, Stepanek... :lol:

+alonso
03-02-2007, 06:55 PM
Because He has a huge mental strengh over the rest of the tour!

Caerula Sanguis
03-02-2007, 07:03 PM
Same thing as Roddick, they took the tour by surprise. But because of their games are so one dimensional, once players figure them out, they are not so special anymore (of course they still have talents and athelicsm to keep their rank high). The reason Roger kept losing to Rafa earlier because, though there's a way to beat Rafa, The Rog wanna beat Rafa with HIS style instead of changing his style to suit rafa's game. Now that the Rog has improved, he can now beat Rafa with his style of play.