If You Love Tennis & You Hate RR - Please Sign Here [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

If You Love Tennis & You Hate RR - Please Sign Here

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jayjay
03-02-2007, 12:53 PM
If you agree with the sentiments I have expressed on this petition, please sign it and leave (if you wish) an appropriate comment (please keep it clean and constructive). I would like to get as many signatures as possible and send this to the relevant people before this "meeting" of the minds. Thanks for your time and hopefully support. :kiss:

http://www.petitiononline.com/nomorerr/petition.html

If you have a blog or run another board, please feel free to post the link there too so we can get as many names backing this. Thanks again.:worship:

Edit...
Thanks for all the support for this so far everyone, and special thanks to anyone else spreading the word to their blogs or other boards. I'm not naive enough to think this petition alone will bring about any change, but I feel that given EDV so readily tells us about all the research done in SUPPORT of RR, I feel it is only right we try and put together our own numbers of those against it.

I am also in the process of contacting some tennis news outlets who hopefully may give more light or exposure to those of us who are unhappy with what is happening to tennis at the moment.

And as GWH has said, this petition alone is not enough, sending individual and constructive letters to the ATP will also let them know how we feel. The petition is simply for a quick way for as many people as possible to attach their sentiments to this cause and get it out to them.

I would love to know their numbers and their research, I haven't found them, hopefully they will reveal them to us. What the numbers were, what the questions were and to whom, where and when were this surveys/questions administered.

I don't know what kind of figure will be enough for them to at least sit up and take notice to a simple petition started and seen through in the space of just a couple of weeks, but MTF has 25k members and many of us here are also part of splinter tennis boards and blogs, so I'm sure we can put up an impressive number in a short amount of time.

When I send them these details, I will also include a variety of links from MTF & KOC where we have all discussed the pitfalls of RR when it was first talked about being introduced. Please send me any other links from other boards via PM, and I shall also add them.

They may not read them, they may not care. But at least we will have collectively let them know what we think about it all. Thanks.

johnnylad
03-02-2007, 01:01 PM
got to be worth a try! Thanks for this :)

johnnylad
03-02-2007, 01:02 PM
got to be worth a try! Thanks for this :)

scoobs
03-02-2007, 01:05 PM
signed.

I urge as many people as possible to sign this and pass it to others to sign if they would be interested in doing so.

vamosnadal
03-02-2007, 01:24 PM
It's definitely worth signing. It's all very well complaining about something, but unless you try to do something about it nothing will change. This whole Blake situation in Las Vegas is shocking. I'm going to add my name and send the link to as many tennis boards as possible.

L.R
03-02-2007, 01:25 PM
I put it on my forum where everyone is totally against this RR mess from the beggining ! I'm sure they'll sign ! :)

I'll also put it on my blog hopin it will bring more people... considering it is the second source of info about Korolev (the other being his official website) I think it will have an impact ! :)

Björki
03-02-2007, 01:32 PM
signed.

lunahielo
03-02-2007, 01:34 PM
Done!

alelysafina
03-02-2007, 01:34 PM
Signed and added it to my blog and a few forums :D

adee-gee
03-02-2007, 01:35 PM
According to De Villiers.......

"It is clear that fans like round robin but unless we can find a way to ensure that withdrawals don't unfairly affect the outcome of group, I'm afraid round robin will fail."

;)

keqtqiadv
03-02-2007, 01:38 PM
yeah, 'fans'

Byrd
03-02-2007, 01:41 PM
signed.

NicoFan
03-02-2007, 01:44 PM
I will sign it and add it to my blog this evening.

For those who live in the US, you may also want to call the ATP, the USTA, and The Tennis Channel. I realize that to call Florida, NY and California is too costly for many people's budgets so the petition would be better for you, but if you have cell phones with lots of free minutes for the entire US, a call makes a larger impact.

If you do call, please be respectful. I do a lot of lobbying in Washington and know that if the caller is disrespectful, their call isn't taken seriously. Also keep it short and to the point.

Ivanatis
03-02-2007, 01:45 PM
signed...

Marksman
03-02-2007, 01:48 PM
Signed!

Neely
03-02-2007, 01:52 PM
Just trust on the self-healing effects of the market ;) RR will go the more players dislike and the more fans stay away from RR tournaments to show that it is not better for the viewers.

Labamba
03-02-2007, 01:55 PM
signed :yeah:

This should get a good amount of names before the next ATP board meeting in Miami.

~EMiLiTA~
03-02-2007, 02:08 PM
good idea...just signed it

fedsfan1
03-02-2007, 02:08 PM
Thanks for doing this jay jay.

I signed & i will pass it along to the sites i visit!!!

I hope it helps.

cheers mate
laura

alansk
03-02-2007, 02:12 PM
Signed. Shocking news to wake up to. :mad:

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 02:13 PM
For those interested in venting, take your time and type out a letter and post it to the various ATP addresses.

ATP Americas
201 ATP Boulevard
Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
32082 USA
Tel.: +1-904-285-8000
Fax: +1-904-285-5966

ATP Europe
Monte-Carlo Sun
74 Boulevard d'Italie
98000 Monaco
Tel.: +377-97-97-04-04
Fax: +377-97-97-04-00

ATP International Group
PO Box N662
Sydney
NSW 1220
Australia
Tel.: +61-2-92502300
Fax: +61-2-92502333

ATP Executive Offices
IG House
Palliser Road
London, W14 9EB
United Kingdom
Tel.: +44-20-7381-7890
Fax: +44-20-7381-7895

All_Slam_Andre
03-02-2007, 02:13 PM
Signed. I'd like echo what Nicofan said. If you leave comments, sure say why you hate the RR system, but please don't be insulting towards De Villiers. Comments like 'you're a joke', or 'I hope you resign' are not going to do the cause any good at all.

lau
03-02-2007, 02:19 PM
signed :)

zakketiello
03-02-2007, 02:19 PM
done

tennismaster882001
03-02-2007, 02:20 PM
Signed! I hate Round-Robin system!

Sommarsverige
03-02-2007, 02:31 PM
signed :)

OddJob
03-02-2007, 02:34 PM
Signed!

gulzhan
03-02-2007, 03:17 PM
signed!

freesbee
03-02-2007, 03:23 PM
signed.

Denaon
03-02-2007, 03:25 PM
done :yeah:

Shrinking Violet
03-02-2007, 03:29 PM
Signed. The sooner this farce is over the better for everyone.

*Ljubica*
03-02-2007, 03:31 PM
Great idea jayjay - thanks. And - yes - I have signed :)

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 03:34 PM
Just sending a few emails off at the moment, but will sign this for sure.

Aguante_el_Gato
03-02-2007, 03:38 PM
signed :yeah:

CapeDeville
03-02-2007, 03:50 PM
Signed! :armed:

jayjay
03-02-2007, 03:52 PM
Thanks for all the support for this so far everyone, and special thanks to anyone else spreading the word to their blogs or other boards. I'm not naive enough to think this petition alone will bring about any change, but I feel that given EDV so readily tells us about all the research done in SUPPORT of RR, I feel it is only right we try and put together our own numbers of those against it.

I am also in the process of contacting some tennis news outlets who hopefully may give more light or exposure to those of us who are unhappy with what is happening to tennis at the moment.

And as GWH has said, this petition alone is not enough, sending individual and constructive letters to the ATP will also let them know how we feel. The petition is simply for a quick way for as many people as possible to attach their sentiments to this cause and get it out to them.

I would love to know their numbers and their research, I haven't found them, hopefully they will reveal them to us. What the numbers were, what the questions were and to whom, where and when were this surveys/questions administered.

I don't know what kind of figure will be enough for them to at least sit up and take notice to a simple petition started and seen through in the space of just a couple of weeks, but MTF has 25k members and many of us here are also part of splinter tennis boards and blogs, so I'm sure we can put up an impressive number in a short amount of time.

When I send them these details, I will also include a variety of links from MTF & KOC where we have all discussed the pitfalls of RR when it was first talked about being introduced. Please send me any other links from other boards via PM, and I shall also add them.

They may not read them, they may not care. But at least we will have collectively let them know what we think about it all. Thanks.

R.Federer
03-02-2007, 03:52 PM
Great initiative Jay


Done

Sunset of Age
03-02-2007, 03:55 PM
According to De Villiers.......

"It is clear that fans like round robin but unless we can find a way to ensure that withdrawals don't unfairly affect the outcome of group, I'm afraid round robin will fail."

;)

Which fans is Mr. Disney talking about here?
Not fans of the game of tennis, I hope? :mad:

Signed, BTW. Good initiative, hope it will be of any help!

Black Adam
03-02-2007, 03:56 PM
Signed though I would have thought attacking the source would have been more effective. http://www.atptennis.com/en/aboutatp/contact.asp I will post and tell them about the petition. Disney has got to wake and realise he can't jeopardise our Sport that easily

jeahhh!
03-02-2007, 04:03 PM
Signed!!

Saumon
03-02-2007, 04:10 PM
Already 150 signatures... the fans obviously love RR! :hearts:

Denaon
03-02-2007, 04:13 PM
Already 150 signatures... the fans obviously love RR! :hearts:

I was going to comment the same thing....this petition will have lots of signatures pretty soon...but anyhow...this thread should be a sticky...so everyone in MTF who dislikes the RR format sees where to sign. :yeah:

Can we please have this as a sticky thread ??? :yeah:

tangerine_dream
03-02-2007, 04:28 PM
I think this is a very good idea because De Villiers is always saying that "research shows that fans support the new RR format" which we all know is a load of hogwash.

After a few days when a lot of names are collected, somebody should send the link to ATP and De Villiers and show them the real grassroots research that proves fans clearly DON'T approve of the new RR format.

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 04:31 PM
Mr. Disney has it worked out. He keeps trotting out the lines about the fans supporting this rubbish, then again Saddam Hussein got 99 percent support in Iraq.

What he will do is more than likely blame the players for RR not working, therefore trying to pass the buck instead of taking responsibility.

ChinoRios4Ever
03-02-2007, 04:57 PM
signed

fuck you Mr. Disney

Breakdown
03-02-2007, 04:57 PM
I have also signed!!!:devil:
This is complete and f***ing rubbish!

Dimitra
03-02-2007, 05:13 PM
Signed it and posted it in TW for other ppl to sign!:yeah:

decrepitude
03-02-2007, 05:16 PM
Signed

tcorinna
03-02-2007, 06:11 PM
Signed :)

Peacemaster
03-02-2007, 06:22 PM
Signed.

Adler
03-02-2007, 06:23 PM
Signed

Richard_from_Cal
03-02-2007, 06:24 PM
I signed. I also will be adding this link to other forums.

Thank you JayJay!

fabolous
03-02-2007, 06:58 PM
It is clear that fans like round robin....

ok, i see we have over 300 people who signed this petition in just a few hours. in every poll here at mtf we have about 95% against RR. i have never met a person in real life who said he likes RR. so, where the hell did disney take his survey? on mars????

Saumon
03-02-2007, 07:06 PM
ok, i see we have over 300 people who signed this petition in just a few hours. in every poll here at mtf we have about 95% against RR. i have never met a person in real life who said he likes RR. so, where the hell did disney take his survey? on mars????

it was in his dreams. just before they called him in the middle of the night to ask whether Blake should go through or not ;)

alfonsojose
03-02-2007, 07:09 PM
signed

Nymeria
03-02-2007, 07:10 PM
signed :yeah:

jcluvva
03-02-2007, 07:13 PM
Signed!

+alonso
03-02-2007, 07:13 PM
Done! :yeah:

judeluo
03-02-2007, 07:22 PM
Signed.

RR ruins everything

Carito_90
03-02-2007, 08:00 PM
Signed. :)

mtw
03-02-2007, 08:07 PM
If you agree with the sentiments I have expressed on this petition, please sign it and leave (if you wish) an appropriate comment (please keep it clean and constructive).

Why do you think, that this system is bad? Is it too exhausting for players? I don't know this system. Does it base on random selection? Champions league makes use of alike system.

Black Adam
03-02-2007, 08:35 PM
Why do you think, that this system is bad? Is it too exhausting for players? I don't know this system. Does it base on random selection? Champions league makes use of alike system.
To start with if you are for RR you are not very welcome in this thread and I will doubt it when you tell us you are a tennis fan.
Secondly Tennis isn't football.
RR is complicated enough in a field of 8 at TMC but in a field of 32 players it's only given us Fiascos. If you lose you should go home and not hope to catch up by winning another match. It's very unfair in terms of a guy who wins his first match and ends up going home whereas normally you win a match you go through, you lose one you go home and not the opposite.

lau
03-02-2007, 08:42 PM
:haha:

Stop it mtw, your obsession with Jay is scary :scared:

vamosnadal
03-02-2007, 08:42 PM
What's wrong with RR??

It was designed to keep the top established players in tournaments for longer, therefore unfairly making it even more difficult for new, low ranked players to break through.

Using Round Robin in a 32 draw means that the rules are extemely complicated and it turns out even the ATP doesn't understand them. It has resulted in 2 absolute shams occuring in the past two tournaments as people try to figure out what happens when players withdraw. (read about the Blake fiasco)

It goes against the very nature of tennis, which is you win to progress through a tournament. It makes matches less exciting as you know even if a player loses, they could still go through. It also means that politics could come into tournaments,players not putting everything into matches to get certain people through and also brings pointless dead matches.

I could go on, but in short it's just an absolutely ridiculous idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

InfiniteSadness
03-02-2007, 09:00 PM
Signed! :)

jazar
03-02-2007, 09:01 PM
well and truely signed.

Mobes
03-02-2007, 09:16 PM
The petition is truly up and running now but we've got to get as many signatures as we can... PLEASE PM all your cyber mates on here to make sure they sign...as JayJay said with the amount of posters on here alone we can make a real impact i think...or at least give the ATP the kick up the arse and wake up call they need.

:worship: to all those who have signed....

to all those who haven't :angel: do....

sigmagirl91
03-02-2007, 09:33 PM
Duly signed.

RR is a crock of shit. Mr. Disney, what have you to say for yourself now?

Daniel25
03-02-2007, 11:22 PM
RR sucks!

SIGNED!!!

sondraj06
03-02-2007, 11:24 PM
Is rr bad because it's too confusing, becuase if it is than I agree because I'm confused. or is it bad because it is some how unfair to the players, or they play more. Or just because it's different?

scoobs
03-02-2007, 11:31 PM
all of the above? :)

tereb_gc
03-02-2007, 11:38 PM
great job! just signed it!
now i'm going to spread this everywhere!
thanks man!

scoobs
03-02-2007, 11:43 PM
Please do spread it everywhere - that would be wonderful.

We're at nearly 500 signatures, which is not bad at all for about 12 hours work.

I think we can get that much much higher, though, and to do that we need help to get the word out to other tennis forums, media outlets who might be sympathetic...anyone who might be keen to sign this and get our point made.

Via
03-03-2007, 12:10 AM
hey jay... thanks for setting this up, although being boring as i am i might have said it more politely :lol:

i've added a link to it from my website home page too ;) right now your petition page does not have any ranking from google... but if enough people click on links to get to the page then it may have a higher ranking in a few days. which would be nice because you want google to spread it for you, don't you? :)

Whistleway
03-03-2007, 12:18 AM
I'm the 499th one. Come on lets move this to 1000. I will link it from my blog as well.

Saumon
03-03-2007, 12:22 AM
we hit 500 in less than 12 hours :dance:

safinaferrero
03-03-2007, 12:51 AM
507 signatures that's great but not enough just added mine ;)

ae wowww
03-03-2007, 01:01 AM
Just added mine :yeah:

adk
03-03-2007, 01:24 AM
I completely agree that RR needs to go, and would be absolutely willing to sign any petition to help make that happen.

But I don't think this petition is written in the right way. It's not structured and it comes across as a mindless rant.

I'm not having a go... just saying that if we want to get rid of this farce, we need a much better letter to back us up than this.

jayjay
03-03-2007, 01:40 AM
I can assure you I was not mindless when I wrote it. ;)

Merton
03-03-2007, 01:49 AM
Signed. At this point I would be extremely surprised if the RR system does not die. in the upcoming Miami meeting. Most probably Mr. Disney himself will advocate the dismissal to make sure that he still appears to be on top of things.

MissPovaFan
03-03-2007, 01:55 AM
Signed

jayjay
03-03-2007, 02:14 AM
Signed. At this point I would be extremely surprised if the RR system does not die. in the upcoming Miami meeting. Most probably Mr. Disney himself will advocate the dismissal to make sure that he still appears to be on top of things.

Agreed. Although part of me thinks they will come up with what they feel is some kind of full proof RR system post-Miami. At least we will be able to present them with our quickly formulated numbers and sentiments against RR, maybe the ATP will be kind enough to share their extensive research and numbers with us to analyse? :)

Damita
03-03-2007, 02:46 AM
Agreed. Although part of me thinks they will come up with what they feel is some kind of full proof RR system post-Miami. At least we will be able to present them with our quickly formulated numbers and sentiments against RR, maybe the ATP will be kind enough to share their extensive research and numbers with us to analyse? :)

yeah, I think we're all very curious about all these fans who supported the Round Robin system :p

Good initiative Jayjay. I've just sent a mail to the French Tennis Magazine and gave them the link to your petition. Not sure they will publish it in the next edition but who knows... ;)

supertommyhaas
03-03-2007, 03:06 AM
signed rr is shokin

laure xxx
03-03-2007, 06:12 AM
Signed. 544 total signatures!

maqk
03-03-2007, 06:15 AM
rr is so bad

almouchie
03-03-2007, 07:39 AM
i will sign it ABSOLUTELY

i think its ridiculous
this is whats great about tennis
u have to win, u lose ur out, that simple , no second chances
I will link the petition to several of my forums

Ferrero Forever
03-03-2007, 08:49 AM
Signed. Great idea to have a petition against this. It's screwed over 2 players so far, and this can't be allowed to happen anymore. The fact that Ferrero was one of the players who got penalised for it really fired me up.

I even got a non-tennis fan friend to sign it just to help the numbers

MaryWalsh
03-03-2007, 09:44 AM
Signed. I am number 572. Stop RR immediately. Do not waste time trying to fix it. It will not work.

Björki
03-03-2007, 09:49 AM
576 Total Signatures :bounce:

paschan
03-03-2007, 10:12 AM
signed...

jayjay
03-03-2007, 10:27 AM
What do you guys feel is an impressive number for 2 weeks of petitioning? I figure even if we just get 10% of MTF on board we'll have 2,500 sigs which is a good base.

I wonder how many sigs the petition for RR will get? :p For EDV's sake I hope it's a bigger number than we put together. :kiss:

Naranoc
03-03-2007, 10:28 AM
Signed :yeah:

Sean.J.S.
03-03-2007, 10:44 AM
I signed. :)

bad gambler
03-03-2007, 10:48 AM
signed

jayjay
03-03-2007, 10:56 AM
I have sent this e-mail to Matt Cronin and that of similar kind to other prominent reporters and outlets, hopefully they will help us further get the word out if they are of the same opinion that many us have.

Dear Mr. Cronin,

I am writing to ask you for assistance in the battle against Round-Robin, which I and many tennis fans believe is a plague on tennis. Many of us have felt this and expressed our views on various tennis message boards when the idea was initially out for public debate, what has transpired in the past few months only serves to further that belief.

In light of the Korolev/Blake/Del Potro fiasco, I created an online petition. My aim is to get as many signatures as I can in about two weeks, before sending off our quickly formulated results along with a more lengthy e-mail/letter and a variety of links from message boards and blogs of fans discussing why RR isn't an experiment worth continuing.

I am not naive enough to think this will bring about any major or even minor change (although I believe RR is surely on its last legs and it's just a matter of time before the powers that be see sense and scrap it), the main purpose is to offer some numbers to the ATP & Etienne de Villiers of those against RR and challenge them to present us with their "research" as I am very interested and curious to see what they asked, and who they asked and what their figures were for them to consistently say that fans are in favour of RR, when this is so obviously not the case.

If you can shed any light or exposure on this cause by making our petition link more visible either through your message board or any other means you see fit, that would be much appreciated. I am contacting various other prominent tennis writers and news outlets in the hope that some or even all will also help us to provide more exposure to this cause.

The link to the petition can be found here...
http://www.petitiononline.com/nomorerr/petition.html

Thank you for your time.

Sean.J.S.
03-03-2007, 11:10 AM
Please vote, everybody!

Otherwise, tennis will be destroyed!

Btw is this round robin trial just for 2007?

Carlita
03-03-2007, 11:38 AM
signed :)

vamos! :rocker2:

Jenrios
03-03-2007, 11:43 AM
signed!

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 11:51 AM
I have sent this e-mail to Matt Cronin and that of similar kind to other prominent reporters and outlets, hopefully they will help us further get the word out if they are of the same opinion that many us have.

Here is a site you might find useful. Chris Bowers, Richard Evans, Craig Gabriel, and David Mercer are all respected commentators and did you want me to email them or will you do it?

http://soundoftennis.net/about.shtml

CooCooCachoo
03-03-2007, 11:58 AM
#588.

C'est moi.

DhammaTiger
03-03-2007, 12:13 PM
i am happy to have signed today.

mtw
03-03-2007, 12:23 PM
To start with if you are for RR you are not very welcome in this thread and I will doubt it when you tell us you are a tennis fan.
Secondly Tennis isn't football.
RR is complicated enough in a field of 8 at TMC but in a field of 32 players it's only given us Fiascos. If you lose you should go home and not hope to catch up by winning another match. It's very unfair in terms of a guy who wins his first match and ends up going home whereas normally you win a match you go through, you lose one you go home and not the opposite.

I am tennis fan, probably better, as you. I don't bet, because it is not fair ( and especially behaviour of these people, who are betting. There are people, who support in very impudent way own type and disturb the other player. Like horse on the horce races )and you make it continually, as you've written in your former utterances. And maybe you are the opponent of the system, because you have difficulty with betting or you don't understand it. Don't you think, that this is not fair too, if player lose his first match and can go home? But he can win two remaining matches, if he is the part of the larger group. And such way of thinking is quite fair.

Snowwy
03-03-2007, 12:35 PM
601 signatures, not bad.

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 12:42 PM
I am just writing to some other journalists now and one of them Richard Evans wrote this piece in the 70s. A bit of it is dated, but a lot of it is very current. I bolded the bits.

http://soundoftennis.net/cgi-bin/soundoftennis.pl?A=ViewArchive&ID=7


Superstars and tennis administrators clash again

by Richard Evans

“What we have here”, drawled the prison warden in the movie Cool Hand Luke, “is a failure to communicate”.

You can say that again for professional tennis in 1979. Only six years after the last dust up when the ATP boycotted Wimbledon, the game’s administrators and players seem, once again, to be talking a different language.

The top five players in the world, Bjorn Borg, Jimmy Connors, John McEnroe , Guillermo Vilas and Vitas Gerulaitis, have all refused to sign the form committing them to the rules for the 1979 Colgate Grand Prix as drawn up by the Pro Council – the tripartite body which governs the pro game.

Why? The real clue to the problem appeared in a sad little press release issued by the pro council during the Masters. In putting back the commitment date for Grand Prix signing to March 5, it admitted to “problems of communications with leading players.”

I know it is very boring to get into the “I told you so” routine, but the fact is that I have been trying to impress this point upon the powers that be for at least three years. If you don’t communicate with people on a regular basis and establish a proper bond of trust and understanding, you are not going to enlist their cooperation when you have a problem.

And the sad fact is that there is no trust and no understanding between today’s Top Five and the game’s top brass. Tragically that includes the executive staff of the Association of Tennis Professionals – a body that was originally set up to give the players their own voice in the game. Now many players view the ATP in much the same way as their predecessors regarded the ITF back in the sixties – with suspicion and disdain.

The fact that not one of the world’s top five is a member of the ATP obviously weakens that organization’s position considerably. However I will discuss the problem in a later article.

Of more immediate importance is the fact that, according to the latest statement from the office of ITF Secretary David Gray, a pragmatic and sensible man under normal circumstances, the pro council are holding fast to their insistence on all five superstars signing by March 5. “The position is quite clear”, Gray has been quoted as saying, “If players like Borg, Connors, Vilas, McEnroe and Gerulaitis refuse to sign they will be unable to play in any of the Grand Prix events – and that includes Wimbledon, Paris and the U.S. Open”.

Now isn’t that nice? Even though I don’t believe for a moment we are all so damned foolish as to let that happen, the very fact that Wimbledon and other Grand Prix events is once again being threatened by politics is exasperating.

Why won’t people realize that each new generation has to be dealt with on its own terms? There is no use in telling Vilas and McEnroe that they are rich because Rosewall, Hoad and Laver kept the pro game alive playing one night stands on crumpled canvas in half empty stadiums. They may say “Thank you” but what else are they supposed to do? Who amongst us refuses to make use of a better contract or a modernized piece of equipment just because our parents had it tougher?

Nor is it any good preaching to them about the good of the game when they’ve been given no feel for what the sport is all about. Pro tennis isn’t just about what happens on court.

It is about the atmosphere surrounding the matches; the history, the tradition, and the characters whose special brand of individualism have given tennis its flavour.

That kind of feeling cannot be passed on to a younger generation if people won’t communicate.

During the WCT World of Doubles in London last month, John McEnroe said, “Bob Briner keeps telling us what to do, but I’ve never met the man.” That has to be rectified now, but I suspect it’s too late.

To my knowledge none of the administrators who have served on the pro council over the past three years have ever socialized in a meaningful way with any of the top players who are now rebelling against their authority – and that includes two of the ATP representatives, Briner and Pierre Darmon.

“They just hand out orders and expect us to do whatever they say without question,” Borg told me recently. “Maybe if they came to us a little sooner and talked it over it would be easier. But every year the rules are different; every year they come up with some new idea and it never works properly.”

The rules this year call for each player to give the pro council the authority to designate him for six tournaments during the year.

That in itself is not an unreasonable request, nor are the top five suggesting it is. But they are suggesting it could all have been worked out on a more amicable basis whereby most of the leading players were designated to events that fitted more or less into their planned schedule for the year.

Pro council officials maintain that attempts were made to do that. They obviously failed. In addition top players were incensed by the ridiculous incentive of 175 Grand Prix points offered to any player who signed before the original January deadline.

“That’s a bribe”, snorted McEnroe. Whatever name you wish to pin on it. It was the act of men who were so unsure of their ability to govern that they felt it necessary to hand out candy bars with the medicine.

The tough facts of the matter are that superstar millionaires don’t do anything for candy. They do things you ask of them because they respect you and understand what you are trying to achieve.

Until the executives of the game realize that, we are all going to be down there in that ditch with Paul Newman, with the warden leering down at us, digging frantically for solutions which might even confound Cool Hand Luke.

Alexiana
03-03-2007, 01:03 PM
signed ist and passed it to a german forum:D

redballoon
03-03-2007, 01:05 PM
Signed.

mtw
03-03-2007, 01:10 PM
Round Robin system was introduced in some other sport disciplines some time ago. People are satisfied, because that system is more fair, than former system and give the chances for better player/team. Yes, the better player can lose one match, but he can win for instance three or four other matches and advance. You can believe, that this is quite fair system. Every player plays against opponent within a group. And the best of the group will go further. What do you exactly want? I don't understand it. Why do you make such confusion?
This is only the experiment, in order to check up, wheather this system can be useful in tennis too or not. Are players opponent of these system too? If they are not very glad, then maybe they should write the petition to Tennis Authorities.
This idea of Tennis Authorities about technical methods of checking up the outs and questionable balls was very good. It should be spreaded. I don't know, why Round Robin is questioned at beginning. Maybe it is not very bad system. I don't know, how is with the quantity of matches. Doe players have to play more matches, as earlier?
People in Europe make betting during Champions League, which is the based on the system Round Robin too. It is possible too.

MaryWalsh
03-03-2007, 01:38 PM
Great article, posted by GeorgeWHitler above in #106.

jayjay
03-03-2007, 01:45 PM
Tennis Week have apparently asked for the same data we want to get our hands on. :)

http://www.sportsmediainc.net/tennisweek/index.cfm?func=showarticle&newsid=16641&bannerregion=

Reversal Of Fortune: ATP Admits Error And Reinstates Korolev

By Richard Pagliaro
03/02/2007

The Las Vegas round-robin draw has once again become a reshuffled deck Eonly this time the house rules have re-established rightful order to a controversial quarterfinal decision.

Less than 24 hours after defending champion James Blake was eliminated from the field on a tiebreaker only to be reinstated in a rule interpretation by ATP chairman and president Etienne de Villiers, the ATP admitted today de Villiers had no authority to over-rule the rule book and place Blake in the quarterfinals at the expense of Russian Evgeny Korolev.
As a result, the 99th-ranked Russian Ewho beat Blake, 6-2, 6-4, in his first round-robin match and by rule should have reached the final eight because he surrendered fewer total games than Blake in round-robin play Ewill advance to the The Tennis Channel Open quarterfinals instead of Blake. Korolev will face American Sam Querrey for a spot in the semifinals.

An apologetic ATP chairman conceded he had no right to reinterpret the existing rule.

"I was contacted late at night my time and did not fully understand the issues being discussed and I made a judgment call on what seemed fair," de Villiers said. "However I understand that judgment calls are not part of the rule book and I must abide by the rules, as must everybody else in the circumstance. This is of course an unpleasant situation for all involved, but we must abide strictly by the rules. I apologize to James for giving false hope and to Evgeny for the confusion. I said we would be prepared to make mistakes but that we would reverse them if necessary and learn from them."

While de Villiers deserves credit for righting a wrong, reinstating Korolev to his rightful place in the quarterfinals, admitting his mistake and apologizing for his error, the entire embarrassing episode presents another compelling reason for the immediate elimination of round-robin play.

If the game's governing body can't get the round-robin rules straight, how can the ATP possibly expect players and fans to accept and respect a format inherent with potential problems? At the very least, the ATP should suspend round-robin play until the format can be fully refined to prevent another fiasco.

Round-robin play has created cracks in the competitive integrity of the sport as the brief reinstatement of Blake made the ATP appear to be making up the rules as it went along rather than adhering to its established round-robin rules. The initial decision to reinstate a popular top-10 American champion at the expense of a Russian teenager provoked outrage among some veteran players, including Marat Safin and Lleyton Hewitt.

"I want to say that the way it has been handled is just a disgrace," former World No. 1 Safin said prior to the ATP's reversal of its ruling today. "I feel very bad for Korolev because he had nothing to do with it. He's a young guy, only on the tour a year and all of a sudden he got screwed by the organization. For a serious organization like the ATP, you can't make these kind of decisions in the middle of the week, by phone, without being there, and not to talk to the guy that's in the situation. And the CEO [de Villiers] disappointed me a lot. In this situation he should have handled it in a different way. It's ridiculous what they did. They have no explanation and it doesn't really fit in my brain."

Safin isn't the only one suffering from mind-numbing frustration over an experimental format that seems to place a priority on entertainment value at the expense of competition.

While some Tour and tournament officials favor the format as potentially providing more matches between top players and offering fans greater opportunity to see top players in action during a tournament week, which could theoretically help improve both ticket sales and television ratings with the promise of prominent players competing more frequently, detractors point out several glaring flaws in the format.

Round-robin play creates the prospect of a meaningless match for a player whose round-robin fate has already been sealed, devaluing those matches and creating confusion in casual fans familiar with the traditional single-elimination draws.

Scheduling has been an issue for players who sometimes sit around for a couple of days between matches rather than playing daily as is commonly the case in traditional tournament formats. Korolev had to site and wait for two days before finally learning his quarterfinal fate.

Another potential pitfall is the prospect of potential collusion or indifference: if a player has already been eliminated from round-robin play what is his incentive to give 100 percent and perhaps risk injury in the process? And when one player has nothing to play for or no reason to even complete a dead round-robin match Ewhat value is the ATP really giving fans who purchase tickets?

In yesterday's case, Blake needed to complete his final round-robin match, beat Juan Martin del Potro in straight sets and concede five games or less. Blake was leading 6-1, 3-1 when del Potro retired from the match with breathing problems.

"The relevant rule states that an incomplete match shall not count as a match played for the retiring player. This eliminated del Potro based on the tiebreak procedure for greatest number of completed matches and left only Blake and Korolev tied with 1-1 records. Therefore, under ATP rules Korolev should have advanced having beaten Blake in their round robin encounter," the ATP announced in a statement.

The ATP rule book prevents the ATP chairman and president or any ATP staff member from making a judgment call on the rules, as no variation can be implemented without ATP Board approval. The rules state that the final decision at a tournament rests solely with the ATP Supervisor.

"I hope that it is recognized that I acted in good faith and my intentions were to do the right thing and see fairness prevail," de Villiers said in a statement today. "Clearly, I was wrong to intervene. I have always maintained that we should experiment with new and different ideas and it was with this in mind that I made what I thought was a fair call. I regret that I got involved, that I overruled a supervisor and I regret this storm in a teacup."

The storm may subside in Miami this month. The Vegas quarterfinal controversy Ecombined with confusion in Buenos Aires' round-robin play last month Ehas heightened the ATP's urgency to address flaws in the format. In addition, Queen's Club has already cancelled its plan to experiment with round-robin play due to a possible scheduling conflict with Roland Garros. Consequently, the ATP said today the future of the format will be discussed in an ATP Board meeting set for March 22 during the Sony Ericsson Open in Miami.

"Discussions with ATP Board members and other parties have already started and the future of round robin play has now been put on the agenda for the ATP Board meeting, starting in Miami on March 22," de Villiers said.

In announcing the decision to implement round-robin play last fall, de Villiers said "research" prompted the decision to experiment with the format.

"Our research with fans, tournaments and media indicate a preference for round robin," said de Villiers. "We are committed to grow the appeal of the sport and get more fans to sample and enjoy. We are going to test different formats and see which ones we will introduce and into what type of event for 2008. It is the 'do it, try it, fix it' approach. I recognize some players and media are opposed or indifferent. But we will diligently build our research based on the results and do what's best for the fans. You live or die by your what your consumer does, not by what critics say or feel."

Tennis Week has asked the ATP specifically what research was conducted and will post its response. Though the ATP insists exit polls conducted by professional data collectors and tournament volunteers in Adelaide and Delray Beach indicates fans are "very supportive" of the format, tennis in the round does not appeal to the man at the top of the tennis pyramid. Round-robin play arrived on the ATP Tour in Adelaide, Australia, in January and World No. 1 and tennis traditionalist Roger Federer hopes the round-robin format makes a rapid departure from the ATP Tour next year.

The 10-time Grand Slam champion, whose round-robin tournament experience has been confined to the Tennis Masters Cup, which he’s won three of the past four years, said he does not plan to play a round-robin event this season and hopes the format fails to make the cut for the 2008 calendar.

"I’m not a round robin guy," Federer said during the Australian Open. "I’m not playing one of these events. I’m happy about that this year. I hope they're not going to be around in '08."

Though today's rule reversal is undoubtedly the right decision, when it comes to the future of round-robin play perhaps ATP officials can consider adhering to the popular Vegas creed: "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" rather than gambling the competitive integrity of the game on a flawed format.

kapranos
03-03-2007, 01:46 PM
If I hate both tennis and RR, where do i sign?

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 01:51 PM
Thanks for that article jayjay.

jayjay
03-03-2007, 01:55 PM
If I hate both tennis and RR, where do i sign?

My ass. :)

CooCooCachoo
03-03-2007, 01:58 PM
Thanks for the article :yeah:

Such a travesty this. Good words from Safin.

Naranoc
03-03-2007, 01:59 PM
If I hate both tennis and RR, where do i sign?

Err... out of MTF? :shrug:

Action Jackson
03-03-2007, 02:03 PM
I decided to send a letter off and I am sorry if this is boring.

The group is Chris Bowers, Craig Gabriel, Richard Evans and David Mercer.


Dear Chris,

As a long time tennis fan I am writing to you and your group including Craig Gabriel, Richard Evans and David Mercer about the Round Robin (RR) format and how it is impacting negatively on the game of tennis.

When the announcement was made that the ATP were trialing the RR format for selected events in 2007, there was a mixture of caution, scepticism and curiousity among tennis fans on a global scale as to how such a format would be implemented for International Series and International Series Gold events with larger fields than the World Team Cup and the Tennis Masters Cup where RR works efficiently.

The scepticism has been founded on that this change in format was presented as being for the fans, at the same time it was a way for Tournament Directors to be able to guarantee that the top players who are playing these events were able to play two events, therefore guaranteeing more revenue for the tournament while this sounds good theory.

The concerns about the format before it started e.g meaningless matches. walkovers and retirements from players who can't qualify for the quarter finals, winning on set ratios were apparent in Delray Beach where Xavier Malisse the tournament winner admitted knowing he would qualify for the quarter finals after winning one set against Rainer Schuettler that there was nothing to play for when he achieved that goal.

With the incidents in Buenos Aires where Juan Carlos Ferrero having to play a dead match because he was not able to qualify for quarter finals due to the rules of how matches where retirements and players were scored within the group system. Players like Acasuso, Gaudio and Calleri withdrawing from their second matches after losing their initial match, did not present the Buenos Aires event in a positive manner.

Then the Las Vegas fiasco in the Blake/Korolev/Del Potro group where the ATP chairman Mr.De Villiers had the nerve to reverse the result of the group winner on grounds of probablity to James Blake who happened to be the top seeded player in the event and gives strength to the viewpoint that this format is there to protect the bigger players interests. Mr De Villiers did not taking into account that existing rules should not be changed in the middle of a tournament for any individual. This showed a distinct lack of respect for the game of tennis and that is something that should not happen.

In an article written by Richard Evans titled "Superstars and tennis administrators clash again" on your website highlighted many of the problems that today are just as current as they were when the article was written.

In closing it is interesting that Mr.De Villiers says that RR has the support of the fans. It would be interesting to know how this conclusion was reached? On various tennis message boards, at the tournaments, the players themselves there does not seem to be a universal apppreciation for the RR format condemning it as too confusing to follow for keen tennis fans, let alone casual fans, meaningless and dead matches due to withdrawals, injuries, set ratios and head to head statistics to decide group winners.

Here below is a petition of the tennis fans that are not in favour of the RR format. This is only a small part of the overall goal to get this message out to as many different outlets as possible such as tennis journalists, news outlets and it would be appreciated that the dealings of the ATP and the way they have handled the RR format was exposed to a wider audience.

http://www.petitiononline.com/nomorerr/petition.html

Thank you very much for your time and assistance.

*Ljubica*
03-03-2007, 02:07 PM
That is a wonderful letter - thanks for letting us read it here. And it is not at all boring :)

Saumon
03-03-2007, 02:29 PM
I have found this about the 2008-2009 changes. It's GOLD! :retard:
Dear ATP player member,

This has been a momentous and historic week for the ATP and men’s tennis.

I am aware of the fact that some of you are or will be unhappy about specific decisions. I understand and have great sympathy with these concerns. But this process of change is not about reconciling or accommodating specific self interest. What we are trying to achieve is a whole that is better than the sum of the parts and that requires a sacrifice from each and everyone in order for us to significantly change and grow our sport. It explains why it feels so painful but also why so little fundamental change has occurred in the past. This stuff is just not easy- it’s very, very hard.

As we believe this has been an open, interactive, iterative and transparent process much of what you will read below is not news to you. What is big news is that the package in total has been agreed and voted on by your Board and represents a significant milestone in the ATP’s history.

We have been talking for some time about changing our Tour. We have been motivated by one simple consideration –to add value to all stakeholders in this wonderful sport of ours. We want tournaments, players, sponsors, media partners and significantly, our fans to get more out of our sport.

This week the Board concentrated all its efforts to lay the critical foundation for this goal. We have always believed that a necessary condition for success is to have the strongest possible elite tennis offering at the top of our Tour. So we have talked at length about improving our already excellent Masters events and the year end Tennis Masters Cup. This last week, we formalised all the ingredients for that offering and agreed and voted on a commitment to deliver the new offering to the tennis world starting in 2009. Also, we committed to the process and key milestones that will clarify all the details.

In summary the ingredients we agreed to were the following:

1. The number of Masters Events to be reduced from 9 to 8
2. Two new Combined events to compliment our events in Miami and Indian Wells:
• One 8 day clay event in the Spring two weeks before Roland Garros
• One 8 day outdoor hard-court event in China, 3 or 4 weeks after the US Open
3. The Financial commitment that each of these 8 events will be required to meet from 2009.
• A Bonus Pool to be included
• An approximate 35% increase in on site prize money in 2009
• A commitment to a revenue sharing model to be developed and agreed by the Board after review with Player and Tournament members
4. A commitment to continue the pooling of all media rights for the “Masters 1000” category within the recently formed ATP Media; and to adopt ATP branding architecture to promote and market our global Tour.
5. A player commitment plan to ensure that the Masters Events are of the highest quality and consistency;
• All eligible players will be required to play 8 of 8
• Penalties for failing to meet a commitment will include loss of points , reduction of bonus pool monies and suspensions from future Masters events
• To prolong the careers of our star Players who have 10 year service on the tour, are 30 years old or who exceed a cumulative number of matches (to be agreed) on tour will receive an exemption of one commitment per year.
We furthermore agreed the criteria and timeline of the process to grant the sanctions for the two Combined Masters; the single clay Masters in the spring and the year end European indoor Masters:

1. The Board agreed that the Chinese sanction would be subject to a matter of negotiation and not an open application.
2. The Applications process and candidates for the other events, to include:
a. The minimum standards and criteria that each applicant has to meet.
b. The structure, period and financial consideration
c. The timing- we intend to send out applications no later than February 1 and have committed to announce successful candidates by the end of March 2007.
Whilst our focus was on the “Masters 1000” , and this involved considerable time and attention, we did achieve a number of other goals and made a number of strong decisions:

1. We agreed a 2008 calendar with an overall prize money increase of 5%. In keeping with our practice this and details of prize money increases will be released after the Board papers have been prepared. Given travel and other short term issues we expect this to be available in 10-14 days time.
2. We discussed the new second tier event sanction – the “Open 500” category- and decided that we would wait till there is clarity on the “Masters 1000” process before starting the application process for this category.
a. The draft application documents which were sent in late December will be refined as a result of your and others input and further debate and analysis.
b. The ingredients appropriate to this category will be refined between now and Miami, after further discussion with both Player and Tournament members; and finalised by the Board in Miami
c. The formal application process will then commence after the outcome of the Masters 1000 process.
d. Expect this to start in early April with an 8 week window in which to apply. We expect therefore to be able to identify the successful “Open 500” candidates by Wimbledon at the latest. This should give sufficient time to gear up for a successful 2009 launch of our Brave New World.
e. In addition the board was encouraged by the progress that has been made in securing a home for The Masters Cup in Europe, but recognizes that this must be consistent with the overall timing of the process

I want to thank all of you for being patient .We are committed to fundamental change and in this process want to ensure that we ‘get it right first time’.
But above all I want to salute and thank the members of your Board who have selflessly and bravely relegated their constituent’s self interest to the need to make our world a better and more valuable place.

My best wishes to you all,
Et

Naranoc
03-03-2007, 02:35 PM
But above all I want to salute and thank the members of your Board who have selflessly and bravely relegated their constituent’s self interest to the need to make our world a better and more valuable place.

:lol:

kapranos
03-03-2007, 02:46 PM
I bet Mr. Disney will upgrade Orlando to a Masters Series.

jayjay
03-03-2007, 02:55 PM
This one goes out to Etienne de Villiers...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FY8hl6b54A

Deboogle!.
03-03-2007, 03:03 PM
I have sent this e-mail to Matt Cronin and that of similar kind to other prominent reporters and outlets, hopefully they will help us further get the word out if they are of the same opinion that many us have.Great idea. I was going to suggest sending it to Tennis Week but I see you already posted one of their articles. I would also send it to one or more of the bloggers at tennis.com and also Bob Larson at tennisnews.com

thanks for starting this all! :hatoff:

HenryMag
03-03-2007, 03:26 PM
Signed

jayjay
03-03-2007, 03:50 PM
Great idea. I was going to suggest sending it to Tennis Week but I see you already posted one of their articles. I would also send it to one or more of the bloggers at tennis.com and also Bob Larson at tennisnews.com

thanks for starting this all! :hatoff:

Will do that, Deb. :)

But please guys, don't be shy in alerting other sites/bloggers to our cause here, the more people who can get involved the better, there are loads of sites I'm sure we are all aware of and I can't send mails to all of them (I'm tired :lol: ). It's been a great effort from everyone involved so far, let's keep the fire burning. :D

gusman890
03-03-2007, 04:17 PM
I put my ass down :)

nrota
03-03-2007, 04:41 PM
No I'm not joking (though I do live under the Hollywood sign, really, I do).

Baseball added the designated hitter, basketball added the three point shot, tennis hasn't done anything except add instant replay - which American football did a while ago - and change the doubles format - mainly to reduce it's cost and help scheduling.

The stands in Las Vegas were empty and that's not an uncommon site in tennis today. Tennis knows it needs to change and though de Villiers completely mishandled the situation this week - that's correct, he did not step in and change the result when Ferrero had a similar problem in Buenos Aires - he's willing to put himself out there and try new formats.

There is a part of the tennis community that wants tennis to be true to its long history regardless of the current environment, they don't want the structure of the game to change regardless of its popularity or lack thereof. There are others who want the game to be more fan friendly and Billie Jean King's team tennis is one example of this.

As in any such situation, there's probably a middle road and round robin is a good start down that road. Not perfect, but a good start.

jayjay
03-03-2007, 05:04 PM
There is a part of the tennis community that wants tennis to be true to its long history regardless of the current environment, they don't want the structure of the game to change regardless of its popularity or lack thereof. There are others who want the game to be more fan friendly and Billie Jean King's team tennis is one example of this.


Group stages that even some dedicated tennis fans have been put off by (nevermind the "casual" fan who won't care enough to even understand the nuances and permutations), fan friendly?

Dead matches, fan friendly? Under a KO system, no match is ever dead. Is having half dead matches, fan friendly? Tell that to the people who went to watch Xavier Malisse play a match where he only needed to win a set to complete his objective of winning the group, and then didn't really care what happened next, as he told us all. Same for Richard Gasquet who told us what we already know, once qualification is assured, what is the motivation to give everything they have?

Is it fan friendly to just bypass the rules and catapult the top seed and home fav into the KO stage even though the rules state he is not the one who should go through? Even James Blake fans were disgusted at such a move, a move that was surely only reversed after the media and fan uproar it had caused.

Does tennis need changes to make the sport better from a player, tournament director and fan perspective? Yes. There are many things to deal with, such as scheduling, back to back Masters etc

Was RR needed to test the waters? No. Is it ok to give the top players a second bite of a cherry and make it that more difficult for young players or journeymen to make those first or career breakthroughs? No. It was hard enough as it is.

I'm sure EDV has other ideas that will be beneficial to the tour, regarding the way the players are marketed and dealing with the more political issues around tournaments and scheduling.

Did the game itself need messing around with, an "experiment"? No. Many of us said this long ago, and it actually feels good I imagine for many of us now to say "we told you so".

If those in favour of RR are not put off by the image it has projected, the confusion and anger it has caused by now, then quite simply, you never will.

Change for the sake of change? No thanks.

*Viva Chile*
03-03-2007, 05:07 PM
Signed ;)

dijus
03-03-2007, 05:10 PM
signed !

great idea

Foosimoo
03-03-2007, 05:29 PM
Signed :cool:

nobama
03-03-2007, 05:47 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/columns/story?id=2785682

"I would call it a first-class debacle," said commentator and Davis Cup captain Patrick McEnroe. "I was initially in favor of round robin to give these smaller events a shot in the arm. I'm not sure we should hit the panic button yet … but there has to be a way to set up the system so the integrity of the game isn't blatantly questioned."

Yes, Patrick there is.....end RR now.

And boo to Jim Courier with his 'mend it, don't end it' mentality. :o

"I'm a proponent of round robin and of the ATP finding a solution to making it work, because I do think it's better for the fans," said commentator Jim Courier, whose Outback Champions Series for retired greats uses four-man round robin groups in competition. "But there have been some issues. I don't think it's worked, and right now it's causing more problems than it's solving. The ATP is going to need to investigate and tweak it."

Todd Martin weighed in as well:

Fellow distinguished retiree Todd Martin called the events in Las Vegas, "Probably a bad format, handcuffed by a rule that if it's not bad, is unfortunate, exacerbated by a bad decision and finally resolved by the right decision."

casabe
03-03-2007, 05:59 PM
signed and tnx

David Kenzie
03-03-2007, 07:25 PM
Signed. RR must go, no doubt.

robinhood
03-03-2007, 07:36 PM
Count Me In

sarciness
03-03-2007, 07:40 PM
Please ditch Round Robins in tennis!

ltaravilse
03-03-2007, 07:56 PM
Olé olé, olé olá, el que gana sigue, si perdés te vas, si sos Round Robin puto, te querés matar(8)

sharpeirob
03-03-2007, 08:04 PM
I have multi tasked, I have said no to RR, yet put a note on Africa problems also :angel:

Golfnduck
03-03-2007, 08:18 PM
signed

ranaldo
03-03-2007, 08:52 PM
signed

RR = Rather Ripped :mad:

reece
03-03-2007, 08:55 PM
signed. get rid of it asap.

fenomeno2111
03-03-2007, 09:11 PM
Signed

crouching
03-03-2007, 10:21 PM
No more RR please

TheBoiledEgg
03-03-2007, 10:49 PM
idiot Cronin wants 4 gps of 4 :rolleyes:

Eden
03-03-2007, 11:23 PM
signed

Sparko1030
03-03-2007, 11:26 PM
singed...hope this petition helps get rid of this disaster. :awww:

HKz
03-04-2007, 12:38 AM
Signed. Hope RR is removed.

I believe RR is fine for like people who are practicing, like for Junior tennis players in some tournies, but when you make it up there, it shouldn't be RR.

rrfnpump
03-04-2007, 01:04 AM
signed.

I♥PsY@Mus!c
03-04-2007, 01:33 AM
Signed
No more fucking RR pls! :fiery:

kindablue
03-04-2007, 02:09 AM
Signed and it's already No. 739 :rocker2:

Jlee
03-04-2007, 02:43 AM
Signed. 740.

Let's get that number higher.

cmurray
03-04-2007, 03:19 AM
signed. 741

wildegirl05
03-04-2007, 03:27 AM
signed: 742

martinatreue
03-04-2007, 04:36 AM
signed #744

Tankman
03-04-2007, 06:54 AM
Signed. What happened in Las Vegas is beyond a joke.

Jaffas85
03-04-2007, 07:49 AM
I just signed it.

So is this petition going to be eventually emailed to the head of the ATP or will it just aimlessly float around that petition website where it won't be brought to the ATP's attention?

I hope Las Vegas is the last tournament to carry this "experiment" as I can't be bothered following tournaments that use this structure.

jayjay
03-04-2007, 08:19 AM
I just signed it.

So is this petition going to be eventually emailed to the head of the ATP or will it just aimlessly float around that petition website where it won't be brought to the ATP's attention?

I hope Las Vegas is the last tournament to carry this "experiment" as I can't be bothered following tournaments that use this structure.

Yes, in a couple of weeks. I shall put together a letter/email and send off the link to the petition with our data aswell as a host of links from boards and blogs with fans giving their thoughts against RR.

And thanks to the help of too many people to mention, letters/e-mails are going out to other tennis sites, news organisations, tennis writers to make them aware of what we are doing and the answers we are trying to obtain from the ATP.

What I'm looking for is the ATP to acknowledge that we are an unhappy majority and make available to us their research which they claim says that "the fans love RR." ATP are coming under pressure from other tennis outlets to release these figures, so it may very well be this data is out for public consumption before I send this off, so much the better, I'll then be able to compare directly our quickly formulated numbers with theirs.

Aurora
03-04-2007, 09:20 AM
nr 757 is in.

kidult
03-04-2007, 12:41 PM
signed: 758

avocadoe
03-04-2007, 12:48 PM
signed 759!

TommyB.
03-04-2007, 12:59 PM
signed!

pete25
03-04-2007, 01:27 PM
Signed 761 !

Kat!
03-04-2007, 02:21 PM
I haven't been on MTF for a little while, but RR is a joke in the first place ;) Signed!

NicoFan
03-04-2007, 03:09 PM
Signed!

GugaRocksMySocks
03-04-2007, 04:04 PM
Signed, and gladly!!! Number 792. Thanks for the petition :worship:

vodkaramel
03-04-2007, 04:13 PM
Signed !

tennisrocks123
03-04-2007, 04:46 PM
signed

ExcaliburII
03-04-2007, 04:46 PM
sign number 797

Whospopin
03-04-2007, 07:49 PM
done

LaTenista
03-04-2007, 08:34 PM
Signed!

Johnny Groove
03-04-2007, 08:42 PM
signed!

would this be a first time that a messageboard and other internet blogs etc. were able to force a major change in a sport?

Hip-And-Happenin
03-04-2007, 09:20 PM
Signed!

Geniey2g
03-04-2007, 09:24 PM
I would sign this 100 times if I could.
Signed.

jayjay
03-04-2007, 10:48 PM
http://sportsmagician.blogspot.com/2007/03/round-robin-causes-controversy-and.html

Round-Robin Causes Controversy And Chaos

In the past couple of weeks, the sport of tennis has been a complete and utter mess.

Why?

The format known as Round-Robin, will be familiar to many of you from a variety of sports where the concept makes more sense. However, in tennis it does not. Part of the beauty of tennis is that there are no second chances, there is no tomorrow. You win and you live to fight another day. You lose and it’s time to check out of the hotel and go home or move on to the next tournament.

Tennis has a number of issues in and around the sport that have long needed to be resolved so that the game can progress. Innovation and ideas are needed to solve various problems, but the knock-out format was never one of them. Etienne de Villiers decided that it was, and the round-robin concept was brought in at various tournaments in 2007 as an “experiment”. The experiment is but two months old and has already proved to be far more troublesome than even the powers that be might have suspected.

Tennis is no stranger to round-robin; the format is used at the season end Masters Cup where the top eight players of the season compete in two groups of four. If it works at all, it works during that event which is designed to be a showpiece where the sport can in effect ‘show off’ its elite talent. Applying that format and concept onto the ATP tour itself was never going to work for a variety of reasons, many of which were outlined by tennis fans all over the internet on various message boards and blogs. It’s a great shame for tennis that the fans and some players could see the troubles that would lay ahead, but that those in the most prominent and decision making positions were unable to see the bigger picture.

Tournament directors want the ‘star’ or seeded players in their tournaments for obvious reasons. However, if tennis is to uphold credibility then those stars and seeded players must not be given second bites at the cherry just because it is more desirable from a television ratings or ticket sales standpoint. If this is all that matters, then tennis has or will become no better than purely manufactured entertainment rather than sport. Sport is about competition, not twisting, turning and manipulating rules in order for bigger names to progress and sideline those trying to make names for themselves.

Let’s look at some of the instances this season where round-robin has brought about the kind of problems that many claimed would occur beforehand:

· Early in the season, both Xavier Malisse and Richard Gasquet commented on how there was absolutely no motivation or need for them to extend themselves in their final round-robin matches after they had both won the set they needed to progress, regardless of whether they lost the match. This was a situation that was clear to those with their eyes open that would occur many times over the course of the season and the players in question deserve credit for calling it like it is.

· In Buenos Aires last week, Juan Carlos Ferrero had lost his opening match to Nicolas Devilder. Devilder had earlier lost to Nicolas Lapentti. This set up a match between Ferrero and Lapentti where all permutations lay open; that was until Lapentti had to withdraw prior to the encounter. The result of which meant that Devilder was the victor of the group due to his head to head victory over Ferrero. Etienne de Villiers assured tennis fans that the introduction of round-robin would produce no ‘dead’ matches and yet Ferrero had to play exactly that against Lukas Dlouhy (drafted in due to Lapentti’s withdrawal). The result of the match had no bearing whatsoever on the tournament, it was completely irrelevant. The beauty of round-robin, huh?

· This week following the debacle in Argentina, came an altogether more absurd turn of events. A group containing James Blake, Juan Martin del Potro and Evgeny Korolev in Las Vegas looked very interesting as it featured the defending champion (Blake) and two highly touted and promising youngsters (del Potro and Korolev). Del Potro beat Korolev in straight sets and Korolev then beat Blake in straight sets. It meant that in the final group match, Blake needed to win for the loss of less than six games and the young Argentine needed just six games to advance as the group winner. Del Potro was not as his best physically and Blake led 6-1, 3-1, it looked like he was going to win the match by the score he needed. Del Potro couldn’t go on any longer or at the very least it wasn't in his interest to do so as he has a whole season (and career) to think about, not just playing out a match where he is in no condition to compete at the level required.

As in Buenos Aires due to the Lapentti withdrawal, the result of the Blake/del Potro match was now of no consequence due to the retirement. The determining factor would be the Blake/Korolev head to head, and thus the Russian was the legitimate winner of the group. Case closed, right? Not quite.

Not happy with their number one seed being knocked out in such circumstances, the ATP decided to…how shall we put it, ‘modify’, their rules mid-tournament. James Blake was to be declared the winner of the group and would advance to the quarter-finals. Why? Etienne de Villiers decided over a phone line that ‘James was within just a few games of wining this match comfortably to advance’, so I guess we are to assume that the head of the ATP not only is going to “shape the future of men’s tennis” but he can literally see the future too!

The decision caused uproar amongst players and fans, with Marat Safin and Lleyton Hewitt being vocal on the subject immediately. The fans had their say too in the form of this petition that will be forwarded to the ATP to further indicate their disgust at both the round-robin format and the unwarranted intervention in Las Vegas by the head of the ATP.

The pressure got to the ATP and eventually sense prevailed and their own rules respected, Korolev was declared the winner of the group and he went on to make the semi-finals of the tournament before a hard fought loss to Jurgen Melzer. All in all it has been one big mess that tennis could well do without, so much for this format being easy to follow and ‘fan friendly’. Are instances like this really likely to encourage those who are not yet avid tennis fans to become so? And just how much ‘experimentation’ are the already dedicated tennis fans supposed to put up with before their concerns are given more respect and consideration?

It’s incredibly disingenuous for anyone to claim tennis is now more ‘exciting’, the reality is that it is more chaotic and confusing. Furthermore, it is not about tennis fans not being able to embrace new ideas and change. The reality is that some things need changing, but this was not one of them. How much more needs to happen for this to become plainly obvious to those who don’t yet see the light? Time will tell. Hopefully, tennis will not suffer as a result.

On March 22nd the issue of round-robin will be discussed at an ATP board meeting. If you wish to add your support to the petition to be done with round-robin, please sign here. And to follow the progress of the petition and see what else you can do to make your voice heard, please take a look here and here.

Damita
03-04-2007, 11:36 PM
thanks jayjay :worship:

Applying that format and concept onto the ATP tour itself was never going to work for a variety of reasons, many of which were outlined by tennis fans all over the internet on various message boards and blogs. It’s a great shame for tennis that the fans and some players could see the troubles that would lay ahead, but that those in the most prominent and decision making positions were unable to see the bigger picture.hell yeah!

And just how much ‘experimentation’ are the already dedicated tennis fans supposed to put up with before their concerns are given more respect and consideration?Amen

Gonzalo81
03-05-2007, 12:08 AM
Signed

missbungle
03-05-2007, 12:49 AM
Signed

merce
03-05-2007, 01:18 AM
done :D

goldenlox
03-05-2007, 01:32 AM
Any system where a player who is losing, can retire from the match and make his opponent a loser, is a seriously flawed system.

Pfloyd
03-05-2007, 01:58 AM
Heh, I must admit, at first I though this RR idea would be good. It turned out to be crap.

Like that old saying goes, "If something works, don't fix it". Tennis Worked. Let's get it working again.

Having stated that, I sign:

Manuel (a.k.a Lafuria)

GonzoFan
03-05-2007, 05:06 AM
Signed!

Federer&Hingis
03-05-2007, 05:14 AM
Signed.

RR formats are destroying tennis.

Ays25
03-05-2007, 05:35 AM
i think RR isnt a bad idea.
but the rules and the format are unacceptable right now.

cherry@cupcake
03-05-2007, 09:13 AM
Signed, with pleasure.

Action Jackson
03-05-2007, 02:15 PM
We need to get it to 1000 signatures.

blackjack123
03-05-2007, 02:20 PM
Signed

NADIA*
03-05-2007, 05:58 PM
Signed

marcosz1985
03-05-2007, 07:09 PM
signed!
RR sucks!

Klaas_nalbandian
03-05-2007, 09:08 PM
signed, football should also go back to knock out and no poules

Bremen
03-05-2007, 10:38 PM
Signed

psichogaucho
03-06-2007, 03:06 AM
done :)
down with RR! :rocker2:

oz_boz
03-06-2007, 10:53 AM
933 now. Come on, only 67 more needed!

jayjay
03-06-2007, 12:40 PM
At 934...come on MTF'ers, just 10% of you alone will bring in 2,500 sigs. :angel:

Garlichead
03-06-2007, 01:45 PM
Signed as Number 938

Hiromiku
03-06-2007, 04:40 PM
Signed as number 939...Or is it number 935?

maria_marie
03-06-2007, 07:53 PM
I'm number 957 and I signed with great pleasure. :-P

Blue Heart24
03-06-2007, 08:06 PM
Keep those signatures coming :yeah:

maria_marie
03-06-2007, 08:23 PM
don't worry everyone, I think the round robin is almost dead what happened last week showed its great weaknesses and I don't think they will be overlooked by the big boss

drf716
03-07-2007, 02:33 AM
a mention of the role of our site in the demolition of RR
http://www.sportingo.com/tennis/round-robin-causing-controversy-and-chaos/1001,2600

morningglory
03-07-2007, 05:22 AM
signed. morningglory

To h-e-double sticks with RR!!!

Bagelicious
03-07-2007, 05:46 AM
Signed, 976. I, kajonie, love tennis and hate round robin.

All_Slam_Andre
03-07-2007, 11:06 AM
24 more people need to sign.

Experimentee
03-07-2007, 01:27 PM
We wonder if the situation were reversed whether you would have afforded Korolev the same "pass" you have given to Blake? Korolev is not currently in the top 10 (although one day soon he may very well be, you will care about him then, won't you?), and he isn't American (where the Las Vegas tournament happens to be) so we somehow doubt whether Korolev would have benefited by the intervention of yourself/ATP if such a situation were to have arisen.

I dont think this part of the petition was really necessary. No one knows his motivation for changing the rules, and it seems to me as if he was just confused and didnt even know his own rules. There is no evidence to suggest he was motivated by those concerns. If this petition is going to be taken seriously, I think it should just stick to established facts. Its enough that the RR Rules caused confusion amongst many people.

jayjay
03-07-2007, 01:33 PM
We wonder if the situation were reversed whether you would have afforded Korolev the same "pass" you have given to Blake? Korolev is not currently in the top 10 (although one day soon he may very well be, you will care about him then, won't you?), and he isn't American (where the Las Vegas tournament happens to be) so we somehow doubt whether Korolev would have benefited by the intervention of yourself/ATP if such a situation were to have arisen.

I dont think this part of the petition was really necessary. No one knows his motivation for changing the rules, and it seems to me as if he was just confused and didnt even know his own rules. There is no evidence to suggest he was motivated by those concerns. If this petition is going to be taken seriously, I think it should just stick to established facts. Its enough that the RR Rules caused confusion amongst many people.

As Marat Safin said, if the situation had been reversed, the ATP would not have cared about Korolev. That is why I put that bit in and think that it is wholly relevant. We all know that RR was introduced to keep the "stars" around as long as possible.

my0118
03-07-2007, 01:43 PM
signed it #980 ;)

Experimentee
03-07-2007, 02:10 PM
As Marat Safin said, if the situation had been reversed, the ATP would not have cared about Korolev. That is why I put that bit in and think that it is wholly relevant. We all know that RR was introduced to keep the "stars" around as long as possible.

Yes thats probably right, but nobody knows for sure what would have happened if the situation were reversed. I just thought that if he read this he may be offended at people accusing him of favouritism and not take the other good points about how RR is stupid.

Action Jackson
03-07-2007, 02:16 PM
De Villiers is offensive.

jayjay
03-07-2007, 02:43 PM
Yes thats probably right, but nobody knows for sure what would have happened if the situation were reversed. I just thought that if he read this he may be offended at people accusing him of favouritism and not take the other good points about how RR is stupid.

I see what you mean, although I don't necessarily agree. I wouldn't worry about him being offended though. Afterall, we're just talking about a furry ball going over a net.

MarieS
03-07-2007, 02:45 PM
Yes thats probably right, but nobody knows for sure what would have happened if the situation were reversed. I just thought that if he read this he may be offended at people accusing him of favouritism and not take the other good points about how RR is stupid.

:awww: You're right, his feelings might get hurt :crying2:.

madmanfool
03-07-2007, 03:50 PM
McEnroe for atp president :worship:

At least he's talking about changes the game needs, and not useless things like round robin.
http://www.eurosport.com/tennis/atp-tour/2006-2007/sport_sto1108897.shtml

jayjay
03-07-2007, 03:59 PM
McEnroe for atp president :worship:

At least he's talking about changes the game needs, and not useless things like round robin.
http://www.eurosport.com/tennis/atp-tour/2006-2007/sport_sto1108897.shtml

McEnroe also wants to do away with "lets" :scratch: , what's the consensus on that?

KalleOnAir
03-07-2007, 05:40 PM
signed

XHpro
03-07-2007, 05:55 PM
lets kill the RR ;) :D :)

MaryWalsh
03-08-2007, 03:30 AM
992!!! We are SO CLOSE to 1K! C'mon. VOTE! :sport: :banana: :rocker: :music: :drive: :woohoo: :dance: :)

Nalbandian!!!
03-08-2007, 04:02 AM
signed.

de villiers stop now !!!!!!!!!!!!:devil:

Saumon
03-08-2007, 10:09 AM
Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, web_admin@petitiononline.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.


Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apache/1.3.37 Ben-SSL/1.57 Server at pol1.artifice.com Port 80
:help: I hope it's just temporary and we've not lost all the signatures

Labamba
03-08-2007, 10:15 AM
:help: I hope it's just temporary and we've not lost all the signatures

It's working again :)

999...

nisha
03-08-2007, 10:30 AM
signed!

Mateya
03-08-2007, 10:37 AM
I dont like this new RR :bs: too.

Signed with pleasure. :devil:

Dimitra
03-08-2007, 11:33 AM
1000!!!:woohoo: :bounce: :D

Action Jackson
03-08-2007, 11:33 AM
We have passed the magic 1000.

Björki
03-08-2007, 11:36 AM
:woohoo:

Homo_Esperanto
03-08-2007, 11:40 AM
Signed
Stop that stupid RR Stuff:cool:

brujyster
03-08-2007, 07:38 PM
R.I.P, Round Robin.

Tzar
03-08-2007, 10:44 PM
how many do we need or something?!ª

jayjay
03-09-2007, 02:54 PM
Just like to issue a public thank you to Matt Cronin for highlighting our cause here, very kind of him to do so.

http://www.tennisreporters.net/janko_sharapova_387.html

*Ljubica*
03-09-2007, 03:14 PM
Just like to issue a public thank you to Matt Cronin for highlighting our cause here, very kind of him to do so.

http://www.tennisreporters.net/janko_sharapova_387.html

Hey that is good news Jay - thanks for telling us.

tangerine_dream
03-09-2007, 04:41 PM
Great job you've done here, jayjay. :cool:

When are you going to send your petition to Mr de Villain?

jayjay
03-09-2007, 04:57 PM
March 15/16, week before the Miami meeting. I'll post all the details of what I send (I will write an e-mail to accompany the petition) and to whom in this thread when I do so.

I do want to also send as many links as possible (even if they won't give them a second look) of threads on boards or articles on blogs speaking out against RR, so if any of you guys have those links other than the ones we know on MTF for example, please send them to me via PM, I haven't received any as of yet. :lol:

merlin_250
03-09-2007, 10:44 PM
signed

Rafa = Fed Killa
03-10-2007, 03:37 AM
RR could be saved with a 4 person group system.
Can't blame someone for trying to increase the popularity of a sport. Also, most normal fans at tournaments would rather see a star player twice than once.

Change and Evolution is good.

Sofyaxo
03-10-2007, 01:14 PM
I'm happy to see this go over 1,000.

Maybe now he'll stop talking about how much the fans love the system.

David Kenzie
03-10-2007, 01:50 PM
RR could be saved with a 4 person group system.
Can't blame someone for trying to increase the popularity of a sport. Also, most normal fans at tournaments would rather see a star player twice than once.

Change and Evolution is good.

Most star players play at least twice without RR. You're not gonna fool anybody with this rubbish.

We don't want players coming onto the court thinking "how many games do I need in order to advance?". The goal in a tennis match is to win the match (duh), the number of games/sets won is irrelevant.

[!JuLe<3]
03-10-2007, 03:58 PM
signed

Raquel
03-10-2007, 05:16 PM
Signed :)

MatchFederer
03-11-2007, 12:19 AM
Signed....

Kitty de Sade
03-12-2007, 07:57 AM
I am totally against the RR format- SIGNED!

oz_boz
03-13-2007, 12:01 PM
RR could be saved with a 4 person group system.
Can't blame someone for trying to increase the popularity of a sport. Also, most normal fans at tournaments would rather see a star player twice than once.

Change and Evolution is good.

Dead matches, RR and you suck.

jayjay
03-14-2007, 08:16 PM
I have sent this off to the ATP/Mr. de Villiers now, it's up to them what happens from here.

I'd like to thank all of you for your help/advice/support, everyone who signed, and everyone who spread the word further through their blogs and other sites, and also to those who wrote letters/e-mails to other tennis outlets to try and give the link more exposure.

Hopefully and it looks likely, we won't have to put up with round-robin for much longer.

Dear Mr. de Villiers / ATP,

I am writing to you in reference to the subject of the round-robin format within tennis. I was unhappy with its introduction onto the tour, even at an ‘experimental’ level as I always believed that it would create more problems than you believed it would solve. I also don’t agree with giving the seeded or top players another bite of the cherry in order to progress should they slip up early on. I do appreciate and understand that the measures you have introduced are to benefit the tournaments themselves with the possibility of the “stars” being around longer, but I think that this is wholly inappropriate and in effect a manipulation of sport. Sport is about competition and sometimes the best players around are outplayed on a given day and a lesser light is thrust into the spotlight or a younger player with a great future comes to our attention.

The recent cases surrounding round-robin in Buenos Aires and Las Vegas brought this situation to a head, especially the case in Las Vegas. I am pleased that eventually yourself and the ATP abided by your own rules to allow Evgeny Korolev his passage to the knock out stages, however it was regrettable that tennis was the laughing stock of the sporting world for 24 or so hours with all the confusion and uproar that the situation created and the poor manner in which it was handled.

I have often heard and read you mention that the research and data that the ATP have collated states that the “fans love round-robin”. From my experience of being in contact with tennis fans from all over the world through the internet, I don’t find this to be the case. Neither before round-robin was introduced nor while it has been in action during the course of this season.

It is because of this and the events in Las Vegas that I created an online petition to gauge the feeling against round-robin, in a little less than two weeks, over 1100 tennis fans (and counting) have signed the petition, many leaving comments criticising the format.

http://www.petitiononline.com/nomorerr/petition.html

I understand that you are soon to have a meeting in Miami, where issues such as round-robin will be discussed and analysed. The fact that a number of tournaments have abandoned their plans to go ahead with the format is surely evidence enough that round-robin has little or no future. Hopefully, you will take into consideration the feeling of those fans against the format and the reasons for that, and not just those you say are supportive of it. Which brings me to my request, I would like to request that the ATP acknowledge in some way that we are an unhappy majority and most importantly, for the ATP to make public the research/data you have that tells you fans love round-robin. It’s very important for us to understand in what context was this data collated, how vague or specific it was, and the results it produced and so on. I sincerely hope you are able to meet this request, as it is fundamental to your argument for round-robin.

There are a number of issues that tennis will have to tackle over the course of time, and change is needed in certain areas. I wish you well with those issues and appreciate the complexity of everything involved. However, round-robin is and was never going to be an answer to any problems, if anything they have created far more and confusion is rife, especially amongst the “casual” fans that you may be trying to entice. I don’t believe it is worth alienating the dedicated fan for the sake of the casual, but that is just my personal opinion, although I feel it is shared by many other dedicated fans. It’s possible the ATP like many sports take the dedicated fan for granted, and always counts on them being there no matter the ups and downs. It may be a calculated risk on the part of the ATP to experiment with the game itself and hope that it proves more beneficial to you than not. As a fan, this experimentation appears totally uncalled for and damages the consistency and credibility of the sport.

Thank you for your time and I hope to hear from you soon regarding these matters. Below you will find a series of links to message boards, blogs and other articles where the issue and pitfalls of round-robin have been discussed. As you can appreciate, there are many more links I could have sent such is the uproar surrounding this issue.

http://kingsofclay.proboards100.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1172826828
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=97070
http://sportsmagician.blogspot.com/2007/03/round-robin-causes-controversy-and.html
http://www.offthebaseline.com/2007/03/02/ten-things-tennis-learned-in-vegas/
http://kingsofclay.proboards100.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1165251137
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=87029
http://www.sportsmediainc.net/tennisweek/index.cfm?func=showarticle&newsid=16641&bannerregion=
http://baselinetennisblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/round-robin-chaos-in-las-vegas.html
http://www.tennisreporters.net/janko_sharapova_387.html

Dimitra
03-14-2007, 11:31 PM
Oh damn!You should have added the tenniswarehouse link :/

Great job jayjay!:yeah: If you hear anything back from him,let us know!:)

MaryWalsh
03-14-2007, 11:36 PM
I concur. Excellent effort!

oz_boz
03-15-2007, 01:35 PM
Yay for Jay!

Saumon
03-17-2007, 04:19 PM
any news?

jayjay
03-17-2007, 05:18 PM
Not yet. Bad sign, I guess. :lol:

So far just one automated response from one of the mails sent out (not the one to Mr. de Villiers...

Out of Office AutoReply-Thanks for your email. I will be out of the office Tuesday and Wednesday,
returning Thursday.

I'll resend the mails and see if anything comes of it.

jayjay
03-19-2007, 03:30 PM
The ATP have responded!!!

Dear Jay,
My apologies for not getting back to you sooner but we have been travelling.
Thank you for your thoughtful , comprehensive and heartfelt note. We are
discussing the entire round robin issue tonight in Miami. We will then convey
our decisions and next steps to the tournaments and player councils. The
research we have done with all stakeholders is comprehensive and the on site
experience has revealed much. All these are inputs that will go into the mix
when we make our decision. I am grateful that our sport has such committed and
dedicated fans and we will always attempt to honour the sport and respect and
reward our fans. But we are committed to growing the appeal of mens pro tennis
and the best way to determine how effective initiatives are likely to be is to
test them in low risk reversible situations. Our research is always objective
and unbiased-whats the point of spending the time and resources to prove self
fulfilling views? We are committed to a fact based rather than opinion led
decision making process. I learned that in the kids business at Disney where we
produced over 200 hours in 60 countries every week. No substitute for honest
input! Again our research which we may share with you ( there are contractual
issues as always..) indicates that fans are very accepting of a need to try new
things.
So, be patient please for a few more days and we will mail you the press
release.
Take care,
Et
Etienne de Villiers
Chairman and President, ATP

We'll have to see if they give us their research and what it states, but I thought it was interesting that he says the "fans are very accepting of a need to try new things.", but not that the fans were accepting on Round-Robin specifically.

Denaon
03-19-2007, 04:24 PM
well at least there was a response to your mail....bravo!!! :bigclap:

MaryWalsh
03-19-2007, 04:38 PM
This response really makes me wonder what the questionnaire looked like, just how the questions were worded. I mean, I think new things need to be tried, like getting some sanity into the presentation of tennis on television. But I am against tampering with the game itself as if it is some sort of amusement attraction. And who was polled? It is a bit creepy to me that fan opinion is being used as a justification for change, yet we fans so far have not been allowed to see the data. Contractual considerations . . .surely research can be constructed in such a way that results can be viewed by the public.

These references to how things were done at Disney bother me. I keep feeling that DeVilliers just doesn't get it:"tempest in a teacup", "just a ball going over a net", "try it, fix it . . ." whatever that one was, and now this IMO sort of patronizing note which to me says sit tight and you will find out what we decide, in the midst of tepid PR-speak. I don't think he WILL get it. RR may bite the dust, the players seem against it, thank god. But I fear other bad ideas will be coming at us as long as he is in charge.

I just hope that DV doesn't HURT the sport too much.

Xavidbz
03-19-2007, 06:37 PM
Signed!

Black Adam
03-19-2007, 09:57 PM
Is that really De Villiers who replied or is it just some Secretary? Anyways nice to finally get some feedback ;)

P.S. So is that how the nickname Disney came to be? All because the research was done at Disney?

Damita
03-20-2007, 12:23 AM
Why does he always mention Disney? He's got a different job now, it's not the same people he has to put the spotlight on, hellooooooo :rolleyes:
(What do Mickey, Pluto and Goofy think of the RR format? cuz if they approve it, we're screwed)