Youzhny roasts Nadal 7-6 6-3 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Youzhny roasts Nadal 7-6 6-3

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scarecrows
03-01-2007, 06:38 PM
sublime performance from Youzhny

Nadal fought well in the end saving a MP with an extraordinary volley but Mischa was immense indeed

playing Soderling now so should be a very reachable final for him

near choke at the end though

JustmeUK
03-01-2007, 06:38 PM
One portion of succulent roast piggy!!!

:devil:

Blue Heart24
03-01-2007, 06:38 PM
Misha :rocker2:
Great win! :yeah:
that last game was damn AMAZING!

GlennMirnyi
03-01-2007, 06:39 PM
Excuses, anyone?


Another schooling.

This Youzhny is good.

scarecrows
03-01-2007, 06:40 PM
haha, same title again like last year

just 0.2 seconds before you ;)

Bremen
03-01-2007, 06:40 PM
Best thread title! Merge the others into this.

Go Misha!!!! A huge choke at the end with all of those match points wasted but he pulled it out!!!

kobulingam
03-01-2007, 06:41 PM
haha, same title again like last year

just 0.2 seconds before you ;)


Colonel Dinky is amazing. He actually attacks the Nadal forehand and puts it under so much pressure.

guga2120
03-01-2007, 06:41 PM
well that sucks, Nadal is not the same player he was last year, he just makes so many errors, in all 3 matches in Dubai.

Yappa
03-01-2007, 06:42 PM
Wait, didn't Nadal have any challenges left or why no challenge of the out ball?

TheBoiledEgg
03-01-2007, 06:42 PM
Misha :woohoo: :banana: :D
some stuffing !!!!!! :devil:

should have won more easier, had the little piggy running all over the place.

Exodus
03-01-2007, 06:42 PM
im gonna eat sweet and sour with pork lol

sondraj06
03-01-2007, 06:43 PM
can i get a cry me a river smiley because that's what I'm about to do

well I'm exciting before the haters take over this thread. Oh now only stupid school to look forward to

hablovah19
03-01-2007, 06:43 PM
Well done, Youzhny! :woohoo:
And to think Nadal had an invincibility air about him two years ago to the point that people thought he was the real #1. NYET! :haha:

Adler
03-01-2007, 06:44 PM
What a performance by both! Great match! Mikhail's serve was in the right place though

Too bad Rafa's shown he's immature, in comparison to Roger's reaction to succesful Novak's challenge on MP in the tie-break (no I'll be called Fedtard for sure)

GlennMirnyi
03-01-2007, 06:44 PM
well that sucks, Nadal is not the same player he was last year, he just makes so many errors, in all 3 matches in Dubai.

:lol:

Don't cry.

stebs
03-01-2007, 06:44 PM
Nadal played, by his own standards, a pretty good hard court match. Simply got outplayed. Some outrageous shots in there. The point at *5-6 in the first set which Youzhny ended up winning, :worship: Plus the pass by Rafa at AD #2 for Youzhny in the last game of the match. Sublime tennis from both but as alwasy a big hitter playing well is not possible for nadal to beat.

t0x
03-01-2007, 06:45 PM
I thought Misha was gunna choke it away at the end. But in general he played wonderfully.... Well done!

So Nadal will go at least a year with no HC final (and 4 losses already this year, hrmm)... hopefully this will spur him to continue making improvments to his game though.

mangoes
03-01-2007, 06:45 PM
Congrats Youzhny........

That was a very good, entertaining match. It can't be said that Nadal played badly. Youzhny just played a fantastic match. It was obvious from the beginning that Youzhny believed he could win this match.

BTW, Fantastic points played by Youzhny to break Nadal in the second set. I applauded silently :lol: :lol:

Peacemaster
03-01-2007, 06:46 PM
can i get a cry me a river smiley because that's what I'm about to do

well I'm exciting before the haters take over this thread. Oh now only stupid school to look forward to

Good luck with your homework, pumpkin.

Fergie
03-01-2007, 06:46 PM
Misha :banana: :banana: :banana:

nicole_s
03-01-2007, 06:46 PM
what a match!youzhny is playing amazing last few months and it doesn`t seem that he will stop!

Exodus
03-01-2007, 06:47 PM
nadal is not going to win FO this year for sure

Adler
03-01-2007, 06:48 PM
I just hope Mikhail will not run out of gas

aulus
03-01-2007, 06:48 PM
misha! :yeah:

pig dead, next toad.

calvinhobbes
03-01-2007, 06:50 PM
The superb praetorian ward of Emperor Rogerius has accomplished its meticulous mission once more. Long live our Emperor. . . . . .:worship: :worship: :worship:

shotgun
03-01-2007, 06:50 PM
:lol: Four threads were created in a split second.

'Grats Youzhny, a few mini-chokes here and there, but he managed to get the job done in the end.

Apemant
03-01-2007, 06:50 PM
Awesome match. The scoreline doesn't do it justice; it doesn't say just how HARD this match was. They both played very good, props to Misha for battling his choking mentality in the end, after blowing so many MPs... and props to Rafa for going down like a man, fighting all the way to the end, saving that 6th MP with an incredible passing shot picked up almost off of the floor.

scarecrows
03-01-2007, 06:50 PM
well that sucks, Nadal is not the same player he was last year, he just makes so many errors, in all 3 matches in Dubai.

:awww:

that makes me a sad panda

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8d/306_panda_dance.gif/200px-306_panda_dance.gif

victory1
03-01-2007, 06:51 PM
They just interviews Youzhny on court; he admits to being exhausted. He's lucky it did not go 3 sets. I don't think he has much left for 2 more matches!

DrJules
03-01-2007, 06:51 PM
Congrats Youzhny........

That was a very good, entertaining match. It can't be said that Nadal played badly. Youzhny just played a fantastic match. It was obvious from the beginning that Youzhny believed he could win this match.

Probably results from the US Open match win.

ChinoRios4Ever
03-01-2007, 06:52 PM
Misha :yeah:

Rafa :smash:

scarecrows
03-01-2007, 06:52 PM
:lol: Four threads were created in a split second.

'Grats Youzhny, a few mini-chokes here and there, but he managed to get the job done in the end.

everyone wants to have the name graved in good threads like this :smoke:

kobulingam
03-01-2007, 06:53 PM
well that sucks, Nadal is not the same player he was last year, he just makes so many errors, in all 3 matches in Dubai.

That's to be expected. He's trying to hit his serve harder, thus more DFs.
He's trying to be more offensive in rallies, thus more UEs.

Like I said before in another post, unless he actually becomes a MUCH better offensive player, making such translation might put him in a grey area where he might lose to more and more players.

Or Levy
03-01-2007, 06:53 PM
I'm not *really* happy, I gotta say. I feel sort of bad for Rafa, painful lose. I wouldn't be surprised if he loses his 2 place by the end of the year.

Plus, I wanted Roger to win over him.

shaggy
03-01-2007, 06:53 PM
mischa is breaking walls. there is no exact word to describe his confidence. it is enormously high.
congrats!

mickymouse
03-01-2007, 06:53 PM
Nadal didn't play badly. In fact, he was untouchable on his service games until that game in which he was broken, and that was due to Misha delivering some devastating bhs. His serve also came in handy in winning the important points, something which Andreev couldn't do yesterday.

mangoes
03-01-2007, 06:54 PM
nadal is not going to win FO this year for sure

:lol: :lol: Well, I wouldn't say so, the FO is on Clay. This was on a hardcourt and Nadal didn't exactly play a bad match for a HC.

Probably results from the US Open match win.

Yep, I agree.

Svetlana.
03-01-2007, 06:54 PM
:woohoo:
It's nice to see that Misha finally learned not to chock at the end of the game!!!!! He finished the match well!!!!


Good luck in Semis!!! :bounce:

:woohoo:

:music:

Voo de Mar
03-01-2007, 06:55 PM
I hope Misha will replace Kolya at this year Masters Cup. Misha is much more attractive to watch - he has beautiful technique of play and delivers a lot of entertainment with his behaviour :yeah:

I♥PsY@Mus!c
03-01-2007, 06:55 PM
Thank god Misha didn't choke at last! :worship:

marcelwks
03-01-2007, 06:56 PM
some points
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfH-dM1NWH8

and amazing saved mp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSc-zUmZxUM

chewy
03-01-2007, 06:56 PM
mini choke in d last game after going 40 love up with 3match points but great win for him n d russian fans there.
youzhny:yeah:

FluffyYellowBall
03-01-2007, 06:56 PM
What sucks is that nadal actually played well. In the us open he wasnt but its a shame this time. Hes COMPLETEY changed for the good and the bad.
Serve has improved although hes sacrificed 1st serve persentage for power.
Hes attacking a lot more and is having success at the volley and generally a more aggressive player

On the other hand, Ive never seen him choke like that. Double faulting on break point, wasting break points with silly errors and where arethe signature passing shots.
Hes standing close to the baseline most of the time but on big points i can barely see him on the screen! Whats up with that? why is he so scarred? I wish i could ask!
Also not showing much emotion on court. Im talking about the fist pumps after every point but just a little emotion to show his opponent something.

Anyway, whatever...Theres still a whole season coming and hopefully no patchy losses again.. He needs to get confident on the big point. Standing farther away from the baseline is not the answer.

LinkMage
03-01-2007, 06:57 PM
Expected win by Youzhny.

I said that if he could hold his head together, he would win.

kobulingam
03-01-2007, 06:57 PM
They just interviews Youzhny on court; he admits to being exhausted. He's lucky it did not go 3 sets. I don't think he has much left for 2 more matches!

And a sore shoulder too. It was bothering him a lot (even before the match during practice).

But the Dubai appearance fee makes the pain go away ;)

The Pro
03-01-2007, 06:57 PM
Rafa's becoming a pretty average hardcourt player. I don't see him getting another title until the clay season starts. I'm impressed that he saved several match points, but a loss is a loss. Some players just wipe him out on hardcourt.:sad:

Ariadne
03-01-2007, 06:58 PM
I wonder which body part Nadal will blame this loss on?... :tape:

scoobs
03-01-2007, 06:58 PM
Wasn't even a bad match from Nadal but something has gone...the air of success seems to have evaporated from around him. It wasn't effortless success because he had to work very hard every match but the sense of inevitability about him winning every match has gone. In 2005 it was there, in 2006 it returned up until Wimbledon but it's been MIA ever since.

I don't get it.

What's changed? Are his opponents all playing that much better than they were? Federer's win streaks seem to suggest "no" in general the opposition hasn't got collectively a lot better.

Have they just figured out what his weaknesses are and now attack them much more regularly? Yes to an extent that's true but even when Nadal is being the aggressor in rallies he still finds the tables turned on him these days, whereas before he would get the ball put away.

Has he become more tentative? Yes, perhaps he hits a bit more conservatively than he used to but I think this is down to the confidence to swing freely and innocently having left him at some point.

Players often burst onto the scene and make a huge impact, but struggle to consolidate and drop down again almost as fast as they rose (relatively speaking). Sharapova came out of nowhere and blew everyone off court to win Wimbledon in 2004 and then struggled for a long time to really back that level up.

What changed? The expectation. She was expected to do it time and time again - and she expected it of herself, whereas previously she surprised herself. It's much harder to produce that level on demand, as she discovered. It took her 2 years to be able to get back to slam winning ways. But she did.

For Rafa the air of expectation went through the roof when he made the Wimbledon final. Proof, proof here that he could win on all surfaces - he got so close on GRASS for heaven's sake. From being the clear best claycourt player and also a good hardcourt player, he went to being expected to be in every final, on every surface, beating every opponent. I think he expected it too, perhaps. I think this added pressure and expectation has inhibited him just a little bit and on the men's tour, that's been enough for players with a strong game for hardcourt to punish him.

The innocent swagger of 2005 when he was a whirlwind has gone. The self-belief in 2006 when he backed up all his clay results up to and including Roland Garros has diminished. Now he has to work hard to recapture that level, recreate that aura, on demand.

Right now he's struggling.

Sharapova found a way to get back to winning ways and re-establish the respect from others that she could do it.

I hope Nadal will too. He's just not there quite yet.

Allez
03-01-2007, 06:58 PM
Nadal should fire uncle Toni like yesterday... It's going to be interesting to see how he fares on the dirt this year.

MrJ
03-01-2007, 07:00 PM
Im so happy to see misha finally reaching his full potential. Its amazing what confidence can do. He will easily be a top 8 player or even higher by the end of the year. :worship: :worship:

Nadal can console himself that clay is around the corner. :)

Leo
03-01-2007, 07:03 PM
Pure bliss! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Fulfilling his potential.

Corey Feldman
03-01-2007, 07:06 PM
Lets hear it for Sgt Youzhny!!! http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/shv.gif

:hug: Buttzillatards :hug: not long till the clay

marcelwks
03-01-2007, 07:06 PM
Nadal lost this year with Malisse (2titles) , Gonzalez(AO final) , Youzhny (1title) . Overally not bad , but all matches lost without winning set .

Svetlana.
03-01-2007, 07:06 PM
some points
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfH-dM1NWH8

and amazing saved mp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSc-zUmZxUM

Thanks for sharing :)

World Beater
03-01-2007, 07:07 PM
Wasn't even a bad match from Nadal but something has gone...the air of success seems to have evaporated from around him. It wasn't effortless success because he had to work very hard every match but the sense of inevitability about him winning every match has gone. In 2005 it was there, in 2006 it returned up until Wimbledon but it's been MIA ever since.

I don't get it.

What's changed? Are his opponents all playing that much better than they were? Federer's win streaks seem to suggest "no" in general the opposition hasn't got collectively a lot better.

Have they just figured out what his weaknesses are and now attack them much more regularly? Yes to an extent that's true but even when Nadal is being the aggressor in rallies he still finds the tables turned on him these days, whereas before he would get the ball put away.

Has he become more tentative? Yes, perhaps he hits a bit more conservatively than he used to but I think this is down to the confidence to swing freely and innocently having left him at some point.

Players often burst onto the scene and make a huge impact, but struggle to consolidate and drop down again almost as fast as they rose (relatively speaking). Sharapova came out of nowhere and blew everyone off court to win Wimbledon in 2004 and then struggled for a long time to really back that level up.

What changed? The expectation. She was expected to do it time and time again - and she expected it of herself, whereas previously she surprised herself. It's much harder to produce that level on demand, as she discovered. It took her 2 years to be able to get back to slam winning ways. But she did.

For Rafa the air of expectation went through the roof when he made the Wimbledon final. Proof, proof here that he could win on all surfaces - he got so close on GRASS for heaven's sake. From being the clear best claycourt player and also a good hardcourt player, he went to being expected to be in every final, on every surface, beating every opponent. I think he expected it too, perhaps. I think this added pressure and expectation has inhibited him just a little bit and on the men's tour, that's been enough for players with a strong game for hardcourt to punish him.

The innocent swagger of 2005 when he was a whirlwind has gone. The self-belief in 2006 when he backed up all his clay results up to and including Roland Garros has diminished. Now he has to work hard to recapture that level, recreate that aura, on demand.

Right now he's struggling.

Sharapova found a way to get back to winning ways and re-establish the respect from others that she could do it.

I hope Nadal will too. He's just not there quite yet.

dude relax...you act as if nadal was beating everyone on hardcourt in 2005. this is youzhny, not some chump. Youzhny always gave nadal a tough time even when nadal was doing so well in 2005.

also, federer has gotten better and the field has also improved a little bit overall. Roddick, djoko, murray etc are all stepping it up from previous years. The players who have been MIA are nalbandian, hewitt and safin. Nadal will be fine. Its nowhere near crisis time yet.

Svetlana.
03-01-2007, 07:09 PM
Nadal lost this year with Malisse (2titles) , Gonzalez(AO final) , Youzhny (1title) . Overally not bad , but all matches lost without winning set .

I hope Nadal will get back in form very soon.... He needs to defend a lot of titles this year!!!!!1

;)

Allure
03-01-2007, 07:09 PM
Wasn't even a bad match from Nadal but something has gone...the air of success seems to have evaporated from around him. It wasn't effortless success because he had to work very hard every match but the sense of inevitability about him winning every match has gone. In 2005 it was there, in 2006 it returned up until Wimbledon but it's been MIA ever since.

I don't get it.

What's changed? Are his opponents all playing that much better than they were? Federer's win streaks seem to suggest "no" in general the opposition hasn't got collectively a lot better.

Have they just figured out what his weaknesses are and now attack them much more regularly? Yes to an extent that's true but even when Nadal is being the aggressor in rallies he still finds the tables turned on him these days, whereas before he would get the ball put away.

Has he become more tentative? Yes, perhaps he hits a bit more conservatively than he used to but I think this is down to the confidence to swing freely and innocently having left him at some point.

Players often burst onto the scene and make a huge impact, but struggle to consolidate and drop down again almost as fast as they rose (relatively speaking). Sharapova came out of nowhere and blew everyone off court to win Wimbledon in 2004 and then struggled for a long time to really back that level up.

What changed? The expectation. She was expected to do it time and time again - and she expected it of herself, whereas previously she surprised herself. It's much harder to produce that level on demand, as she discovered. It took her 2 years to be able to get back to slam winning ways. But she did.

For Rafa the air of expectation went through the roof when he made the Wimbledon final. Proof, proof here that he could win on all surfaces - he got so close on GRASS for heaven's sake. From being the clear best claycourt player and also a good hardcourt player, he went to being expected to be in every final, on every surface, beating every opponent. I think he expected it too, perhaps. I think this added pressure and expectation has inhibited him just a little bit and on the men's tour, that's been enough for players with a strong game for hardcourt to punish him.

The innocent swagger of 2005 when he was a whirlwind has gone. The self-belief in 2006 when he backed up all his clay results up to and including Roland Garros has diminished. Now he has to work hard to recapture that level, recreate that aura, on demand.

Right now he's struggling.

Sharapova found a way to get back to winning ways and re-establish the respect from others that she could do it.

I hope Nadal will too. He's just not there quite yet.

I think people figured out his one dimensional game like Fed did with Hewitt. Not that Hewitt is really 1 dimensional.

marcelwks
03-01-2007, 07:09 PM
Thanks for sharing :)

It's Studzien's job :worship:

FluffyYellowBall
03-01-2007, 07:10 PM
Wasn't even a bad match from Nadal but something has gone...the air of success seems to have evaporated from around him. It wasn't effortless success because he had to work very hard every match but the sense of inevitability about him winning every match has gone. In 2005 it was there, in 2006 it returned up until Wimbledon but it's been MIA ever since.

I don't get it.

What's changed? Are his opponents all playing that much better than they were? Federer's win streaks seem to suggest "no" in general the opposition hasn't got collectively a lot better.

Have they just figured out what his weaknesses are and now attack them much more regularly? Yes to an extent that's true but even when Nadal is being the aggressor in rallies he still finds the tables turned on him these days, whereas before he would get the ball put away.

Has he become more tentative? Yes, perhaps he hits a bit more conservatively than he used to but I think this is down to the confidence to swing freely and innocently having left him at some point.

Players often burst onto the scene and make a huge impact, but struggle to consolidate and drop down again almost as fast as they rose (relatively speaking). Sharapova came out of nowhere and blew everyone off court to win Wimbledon in 2004 and then struggled for a long time to really back that level up.

What changed? The expectation. She was expected to do it time and time again - and she expected it of herself, whereas previously she surprised herself. It's much harder to produce that level on demand, as she discovered. It took her 2 years to be able to get back to slam winning ways. But she did.

For Rafa the air of expectation went through the roof when he made the Wimbledon final. Proof, proof here that he could win on all surfaces - he got so close on GRASS for heaven's sake. From being the clear best claycourt player and also a good hardcourt player, he went to being expected to be in every final, on every surface, beating every opponent. I think he expected it too, perhaps. I think this added pressure and expectation has inhibited him just a little bit and on the men's tour, that's been enough for players with a strong game for hardcourt to punish him.

The innocent swagger of 2005 when he was a whirlwind has gone. The self-belief in 2006 when he backed up all his clay results up to and including Roland Garros has diminished. Now he has to work hard to recapture that level, recreate that aura, on demand.

Right now he's struggling.

Sharapova found a way to get back to winning ways and re-establish the respect from others that she could do it.

I hope Nadal will too. He's just not there quite yet.


Thats a good point about sharapova... I honeslty wouldnt be surprised if he didnt win this clay season. Its just additional pressure mounting since he hasnt been successful on hard courts. He needs a good week. At least a final in miami or IW which is a little far fetched but will really boose his confidence even if he loses in a final. Maybe we'll have to wait a year or two like sharapova. He wont just slip down the rankings like that, hes too motivated and i regardless on his tennis, his motivation WILL PAY OFF one time.

Corey Feldman
03-01-2007, 07:11 PM
BTW, Fantastic points played by Youzhny to break Nadal in the second set. I applauded silently :lol: :lol:I applauded loudly :D

BlueSwan
03-01-2007, 07:14 PM
Nadal is still playing great tennis. He isn't losing to bad players, he's losing to a particular type of player, playing at the top of their level. The one thing that is missing is his supreme confidence. He might get it back when he returns to the clay.

scoobs
03-01-2007, 07:14 PM
dude relax...you act as if nadal was beating everyone on hardcourt in 2005. this is youzhny, not some chump. Youzhny always gave nadal a tough time even when nadal was doing so well in 2005.

also, federer has gotten better and the field has also improved a little bit overall. Roddick, djoko, murray etc are all stepping it up from previous years. The players who have been MIA are nalbandian, hewitt and safin. Nadal will be fine. Its nowhere near crisis time yet.
I'm not panicking. This is me, right here, not panicking.

Just pointing out what I think has changed, that's all.

Yes, players have figured his game out a bit more, but also he's not as confident and free with his hitting as he was. The two, together...this is why we're where we are.

In 2005 he wasn't winning every tournament, I know, but 2 TMS on hardcourt, winning Dubai last year...this has dried up for a reason.

The big question on everyone's lips is whether he can keep his winning ways on clay.

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 07:14 PM
Look at Youzhny play, no wonder he gets these great results. He is so relaxed.

Incredible effort, I thought nadal would pull off the win. But Youzhny is having a great season and totally deserved to win.

Adler
03-01-2007, 07:14 PM
Are his opponents all playing that much better than they were? Federer's win streaks seem to suggest "no" in general the opposition hasn't got collectively a lot better
I disagree. Youngsters got better, and so did some other players (ex. Gonzalez)

Have they just figured out what his weaknesses are and now attack them much more regularly?
That's the key in my opinion[/QUOTE]

BTW, nice post. I wish there would be more like this one

Fergie
03-01-2007, 07:15 PM
I applauded loudly :D

You're a bad person :lol:

TheBoiledEgg
03-01-2007, 07:15 PM
Misha's neck muscle relaxation technique or whatever he does......... its great :lol:

FluffyYellowBall
03-01-2007, 07:16 PM
dude relax...you act as if nadal was beating everyone on hardcourt in 2005. this is youzhny, not some chump. Youzhny always gave nadal a tough time even when nadal was doing so well in 2005.

also, federer has gotten better and the field has also improved a little bit overall. Roddick, djoko, murray etc are all stepping it up from previous years. The players who have been MIA are nalbandian, hewitt and safin. Nadal will be fine. Its nowhere near crisis time yet.


Its a crisis right now!! It wont keep on going like that but somethings can be changed. Its great that all the youngsters are stepping up. Now that federers in his own league, nadal in a crisis and the rest of the youngsters climbing the ladder, its not even. No one was expecting him to rise at the same rate he did in 05. Same will happen with the rest of the youngsters though. Theyre still "exploring" now. Lets see where they'll find themselves

TheBoiledEgg
03-01-2007, 07:16 PM
I applauded loudly :D

so was i :devil:

wonder where that VIP lady was today (that lady in Pink yesterday :o :o )

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 07:17 PM
Poor rafa, he had a lot of points to defend here. Not that it puts #3 any closer to #2 though.

On the bright side, Federer can gain points by winning the tournament :D

nanoman
03-01-2007, 07:17 PM
.................
Have they just figured out what his weaknesses are and now attack them much more regularly? Yes to an extent that's true but even when Nadal is being the aggressor in rallies he still finds the tables turned on him these days, whereas before he would get the ball put away.
...............


This or somewhat related to this I think is the main reason Nadal is "struggling". Nadal's game has been put under the loop, the element of surprise just isn't there anymore. People anticipate his game a lot better these days.
His serve = nearly always to the backhand.
His putaways = nearly always loopy swirling ball to the backhand.
His positioning = always on the move to cover his backhand (Youzhny made good use of it today)
If he mix things up, he'll make mistakes.
What it comes down to: if you have a competent backhand and a brain, you can challenge Nadal.

Adler
03-01-2007, 07:18 PM
My following question is this: Will Nadal be the next Muster or Courier? First one was indestructible on clay for quite long, got some more titles on other surfaces, but not much. Jim also did well on other surfaces and became No.1 for quite long. So far Rafa's following Muster's path. Will it change?

World Beater
03-01-2007, 07:18 PM
I'm not panicking. This is me, right here, not panicking.

Just pointing out what I think has changed, that's all.

Yes, players have figured his game out a bit more, but also he's not as confident and free with his hitting as he was. The two, together...this is why we're where we are.

In 2005 he wasn't winning every tournament, I know, but 2 TMS on hardcourt, winning Dubai last year...this has dried up for a reason.

The big question on everyone's lips is whether he can keep his winning ways on clay.

listen i dont want to be one to harp on nadal's draws but its not like he has been losing to players that he used to school in 2005/2006. Now he is starting to face players with a different style, players he didnt regularly face back in 2005/2006.

When nadal starts losing to his Bi$ches from 2005/early 2006, then we can talk about things changing. Also a lot of people are talking about nadal's play dipping and im not too sure about this. Everyone used to complain that federer would it 3203820 errors against nadal, and that it was all Federer's fault and none of Nadal's. Maybe nadal just isnt as comfortable/confident against certain guys and that manifests itself in pressure situations.

World Beater
03-01-2007, 07:20 PM
My following question is this: Will Nadal be the next Muster or Courier? First one was indestructible on clay for quite long, got some more titles on other surfaces, but not much. Jim also did well on other surfaces and became No.1 for quite long. So far Rafa's following Muster's path. Will it change?

nadal has arguably eclipsed muster already

2moretogo
03-01-2007, 07:20 PM
Misha was so good today! He was hitting so many lines.

The last game was special though. Great fight by him to serve it out.

2moretogo
03-01-2007, 07:22 PM
Misha's neck muscle relaxation technique or whatever he does......... its great :lol:

I was laughing the entire match, "WTF?" He looked as if he was getting ready to go swimming before his service games. Dead.

Adler
03-01-2007, 07:22 PM
nadal has arguably eclipsed muster already
Well. it's arguable (44 Muster's titles plus No.1 is much to put on scales), but it wil always be. I just thought of a certain path of career - Courier was more universal player while Muster is remembered as mostly King of Clay

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 07:22 PM
Good for Youzhny! This just solidifies for me his form from the USO. So anyone who saw this match- did he salute? ;) :lol:

mangoes
03-01-2007, 07:23 PM
I applauded loudly :D

:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm at work :lol:

scoobs
03-01-2007, 07:24 PM
Nadal beat Misha 3 times between 2005 and 2007, twice on hard.

So I'm not sure I see your point.

Sometimes yeah he's meeting guys he hadn't played before or hadn't beaten even then, like Blake or Berdych. Take Malisse - he beat Malisse twice in 2005 (alright, on clay). He's losing to some new guys but he's also losing to guys now he had previously beaten, like Malisse, like Youzhny, like Gonzalez, like Federer.

Voo de Mar
03-01-2007, 07:24 PM
Misha's neck muscle relaxation technique or whatever he does......... its great :lol:

Yes, I like this new technique of relaxation. I saw it for the first time in Rotterdam when Misha was playing against Djokovic :)

martinatreue
03-01-2007, 07:26 PM
I love how the 1-handers are starting to beat Rafa too. :D 4 of the top 5 in the race to champions are 1-handers: Roger, haas, gonzo, then roddick, then Misha as of today! :D

Svetlana.
03-01-2007, 07:26 PM
I disagree when people compare Nadal to Sharapova. Maria wants to be THE number 1, and only number 1. In contrary, Rafa wants to be THE Great overall player!!!

World Beater
03-01-2007, 07:27 PM
Nadal beat Misha 3 times between 2005 and 2007, twice on hard.

So I'm not sure I see your point.

Sometimes yeah he's meeting guys he hadn't played before or hadn't beaten even then, like Blake or Berdych. Take Malisse - he beat Malisse twice in 2005 (alright, on clay). He's losing to some new guys but he's also losing to guys now he had previously beaten, like Malisse, like Youzhny, like Gonzalez, like Federer.

Even though nadal won those matches. Misha was never his bi^ch. The ausopen in 2006 was a good indication. i think overall mischa has improved as well. Mischa is beating a lot of people, not just nadal. When nadal starts losing to davydenko, ljubicic, robredo...then we can talk

lol...did you really expect nadal to keep beating federer at the same pace?!!!! bad example. Gonzalez just reached an ausopen final...again, nadal is losing to players in better form currently.

Pfloyd
03-01-2007, 07:28 PM
Nadal did beat 2 tough players to reach Youzhny, but I still feel his confidence is not high at all.

It is a little weird. Beating Baghdatis and Beating Andreev is no laughing matter, yet he loses these close matches to these types of players, aka Misha and other hard hitters.

All these recent matches Nadal has been losing, except in the AO, have mostly been close matches.

At his breakthrough year of 2005, Nadal not only won these close matches, he also had the element of surprise, like some of you have already mentioned.

However, the more players beat Nadal, the more other players know he is beatable and they will enter the court with confidence against him,

However, I cannot pinpoint exactly where Nadal is going wrong in his game.

Svetlana.
03-01-2007, 07:29 PM
Good for Youzhny! This just solidifies for me his form from the USO. So anyone who saw this match- did he salute? ;) :lol:

Yes, he did... as always :)

Allure
03-01-2007, 07:29 PM
Maybe spending too much time dancing on tables with Carlos, no?;)

Corey Feldman
03-01-2007, 07:30 PM
wonder where that VIP lady was today (that lady in Pink yesterday :o :o )It showed her at the end - one of misha's MP's i think, she looked a bit upset... her husband next to her was cheering Misha
:haha:

TheBoiledEgg
03-01-2007, 07:30 PM
Mischa is probably playing the 3rd best of anyone right now

Federer, Haas, then Mischa.

Adler
03-01-2007, 07:31 PM
He's losing to some new guys but he's also losing to guys now he had previously beaten, like Malisse, like Youzhny, like Gonzalez, like Federer.
They realised that:

Rafa plays a specific kind of game. It's not so hard to understand it - Nadal is right-handed, but he plays like a leftie. When you're right-handed and you attempt to do sth with your left hand, you can learn how to do it well but it's slightly different. I know, cause I'm right-handed, but I do some thighs using my left hand (no... not THESE kind of things :) ). That's why his forehand is so specific. Plus, he runs to everything like Chang. The way to defeat Rafa is quite obvious. The problem is accuracy (that's why Andreev failed) and consistence. It requires patience and great fitness, not many of today's players can gain success by following this strategy (but the number of them is growing), and that's why Rafa can go far in tournaments he play in (quarters, semis)

mangoes
03-01-2007, 07:31 PM
Wasn't even a bad match from Nadal but something has gone...the air of success seems to have evaporated from around him. It wasn't effortless success because he had to work very hard every match but the sense of inevitability about him winning every match has gone. In 2005 it was there, in 2006 it returned up until Wimbledon but it's been MIA ever since.

I don't get it.

What's changed? Are his opponents all playing that much better than they were? Federer's win streaks seem to suggest "no" in general the opposition hasn't got collectively a lot better.

Have they just figured out what his weaknesses are and now attack them much more regularly? Yes to an extent that's true but even when Nadal is being the aggressor in rallies he still finds the tables turned on him these days, whereas before he would get the ball put away.

Has he become more tentative? Yes, perhaps he hits a bit more conservatively than he used to but I think this is down to the confidence to swing freely and innocently having left him at some point.

Players often burst onto the scene and make a huge impact, but struggle to consolidate and drop down again almost as fast as they rose (relatively speaking). Sharapova came out of nowhere and blew everyone off court to win Wimbledon in 2004 and then struggled for a long time to really back that level up.

What changed? The expectation. She was expected to do it time and time again - and she expected it of herself, whereas previously she surprised herself. It's much harder to produce that level on demand, as she discovered. It took her 2 years to be able to get back to slam winning ways. But she did.

For Rafa the air of expectation went through the roof when he made the Wimbledon final. Proof, proof here that he could win on all surfaces - he got so close on GRASS for heaven's sake. From being the clear best claycourt player and also a good hardcourt player, he went to being expected to be in every final, on every surface, beating every opponent. I think he expected it too, perhaps. I think this added pressure and expectation has inhibited him just a little bit and on the men's tour, that's been enough for players with a strong game for hardcourt to punish him.

The innocent swagger of 2005 when he was a whirlwind has gone. The self-belief in 2006 when he backed up all his clay results up to and including Roland Garros has diminished. Now he has to work hard to recapture that level, recreate that aura, on demand.

Right now he's struggling.

Sharapova found a way to get back to winning ways and re-establish the respect from others that she could do it.

I hope Nadal will too. He's just not there quite yet.


Quite a number of players have improved........including Roger. With each year of dominance, Roger has improved his game as others try to catch up with him. Hence, Roger's ability to keep a couple steps ahead of the field. The same cannot be said of Nadal. Players have figured out Nadal's weaknesses and have learnt to exploit them. With very little improvement to Nadal's game, more and more players are leveling the playing field on HC with Nadal. As a chain reaction to this happening, an important part of Nadal's game has suffered, his confidance.

dorkino
03-01-2007, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by scoobsuk
Wasn't even a bad match from Nadal but something has gone...the air of success seems to have evaporated from around him. It wasn't effortless success because he had to work very hard every match but the sense of inevitability about him winning every match has gone. In 2005 it was there, in 2006 it returned up until Wimbledon but it's been MIA ever since.
I don't get it.
What's changed? Are his opponents all playing that much better than they were? Federer's win streaks seem to suggest "no" in general the opposition hasn't got collectively a lot better.
Have they just figured out what his weaknesses are and now attack them much more regularly? Yes to an extent that's true but even when Nadal is being the aggressor in rallies he still finds the tables turned on him these days, whereas before he would get the ball put away.
Has he become more tentative? Yes, perhaps he hits a bit more conservatively than he used to but I think this is down to the confidence to swing freely and innocently having left him at some point.
Players often burst onto the scene and make a huge impact, but struggle to consolidate and drop down again almost as fast as they rose (relatively speaking). Sharapova came out of nowhere and blew everyone off court to win Wimbledon in 2004 and then struggled for a long time to really back that level up.
What changed? The expectation. She was expected to do it time and time again - and she expected it of herself, whereas previously she surprised herself. It's much harder to produce that level on demand, as she discovered. It took her 2 years to be able to get back to slam winning ways. But she did.
For Rafa the air of expectation went through the roof when he made the Wimbledon final. Proof, proof here that he could win on all surfaces - he got so close on GRASS for heaven's sake. From being the clear best claycourt player and also a good hardcourt player, he went to being expected to be in every final, on every surface, beating every opponent. I think he expected it too, perhaps. I think this added pressure and expectation has inhibited him just a little bit and on the men's tour, that's been enough for players with a strong game for hardcourt to punish him.
The innocent swagger of 2005 when he was a whirlwind has gone. The self-belief in 2006 when he backed up all his clay results up to and including Roland Garros has diminished. Now he has to work hard to recapture that level, recreate that aura, on demand.

Right now he's struggling.

Sharapova found a way to get back to winning ways and re-establish the respect from others that she could do it.

I hope Nadal will too. He's just not there quite yet.
:hug: Scoobs. Of course he's not there quite yet. I think it's a mixture of all what u 've said.
First he's not that "dead hearted" anymore like he was in 2005 when he has nothing to lose and on 2006, when he had just proved himself as a young somewhat new good player who "surprisingly" defeated the unbeatable number one player "Fed".

After those winnings he is expected to win and that was going on until the famous wimbledon final where he got shaky afterwards , and that showed well that he can be beaten. That match and some matches here and there on non clay courts obviously revealed his defects and showed the guys he's beatable.
So with more enocuoraged players to punish him for his defects, and alternatively his loss of confidence ...the circle goes on.

Haven't got the chance to watch tonight's match but seriously, as much as i feel bad for him , i don't think it's a disasterous loss. NOT YET i guess.

From those last two matches and from some of the descriptions here i guess ( Perhaps it's my imagination) But i feel, some improvement...within serve , some more aggressiveness and ofcourse because this is a new beginning change for Nadal, he made lots of UE compared to his previous level.

Honestly, i think this 'll go on for some time. I guess most of us expected this to come at least for this season. More errors, some slow change in tactics and more aggressiveness from his opponents.

The point here is that, i really think and wish he shouldn't get scared from what he's getting right now as bitter losses or so. Because what he's practising on might be the only good way to get some decent results on non clay courts afterwards even though he'd still struggle with good players on these courts.

I might be pessimistic , but perhaps this confidence/struggling issue 'll still be a problem with clay courts (contrarily to what some here might think) But that's what the game is like for these professionals.
It's about contineous development and as much as u can keeping ur head focused on positive ideas not the bad ones.
Whether he 'd do it or no i guess no one here is capable of assuring his opinion.
Personally, as much pity as i feel for him now, but i don't think it's time yet to drop Rafa's case as hopeless. :shrug:

musefanatic
03-01-2007, 07:37 PM
Oh my god, i couldn't believe this, well done Mikhail!!! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: Nadders is really not great at the moment, he needs to up his game soon or he's really gonna get left behind by Fed.

scoobs
03-01-2007, 07:39 PM
I hope a new, improved Nadal can click into place and find ways to beat these guys on hardcourts in the coming season or two. He's too young, too good and too fun to watch to end up sortof fading away and ending up only known for being good on clay.

Adler
03-01-2007, 07:41 PM
Nalbandian said once, that the Wimbledon final was too early for him. Maybe the same goes with Rafa

RickDaStick
03-01-2007, 07:42 PM
Sad to see how much Nadal has regressed on hardcourts. Its ok rafatards he still has his 2 months of the season but be realistic and dont expect much more out of him.

Deivid23
03-01-2007, 07:43 PM
Impressive stuff from Misha, too good today for Nadal. :hatoff:

Nothing new, Rafa struggles against these kind of players on fast surfaces if they´re in the top of their games, and Youzhny indeed was today. I don´t think Rafa is in bad shape, and I think we will be fine, just needs to built up again that self-confidence, hopefully this will come soon enough.

Svetlana.
03-01-2007, 07:43 PM
Nalbandian said once, that the Wimbledon final was too early for him. Maybe the same goes with Rafa

Rafa is more mature compare to other players his age, so I think we'll see lots of great wins from him ;)

MariaV
03-01-2007, 07:44 PM
Haven't got the chance to watch tonight's match but seriously, as much as i feel bad for him , i don't think it's a disasterous loss. NOT YET i guess.

From those last two matches and from some of the descriptions here i guess ( Perhaps it's my imagination) But i feel, some improvement...within serve , some more aggressiveness and ofcourse because this is a new beginning change for Nadal, he made lots of UE compared to his previous level.

That's the impression I got from the last 2 matches too.


Personally, as much pity as i feel for him now, but i don't think it's time yet to drop Rafa's case as hopeless. :shrug:

My sentimenst exactly. :wavey:

jazar
03-01-2007, 07:46 PM
good performance from misha. still not showing any signs of tiredness.

at this rate how long will nadal be #2?

scarecrows
03-01-2007, 07:50 PM
Mischa is probably playing the 3rd best of anyone right now

Federer, Haas, then Mischa.

hmm, I think Haas and Youzhny are playing better than Federer at the moment but still, Federer will have the edge over both of them

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 07:51 PM
at this rate how long will nadal be #2?

There is a wide gulf between #2 and #3 (not as big as between #1 and #2, but still wide enough), I don't think that he will need to worry about that.

Howver he will need to defend a lot during clay season to ensure that the gap doesn't become smaller. And then, there is that Final on grass that he needs to defend

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 07:52 PM
hmm, I think Haas and Youzhny are playing better than Federer at the moment but still, Federer will have the edge over both of them

Haas and Youzhny are playing much closer to the top of their potential
Federer, well it seems that he is playing lower than his max but still getting the wins. Against Youzhny I think he would be able to pull it off, but against haas he needs to have a better show to get through

dorkino
03-01-2007, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Scoobsuk
I hope a new, improved Nadal can click into place and find ways to beat these guys on hardcourts in the coming season or two. He's too young, too good and too fun to watch to end up sortof fading away and ending up only known for being good on clay.
Scoobs , wait until some here see this and u'll find them saying :
"So, u're expecting the guy to be Federer?" ;)

i deeeeply share the same hope. It's true he's still young and that's a good chance for development to come (Hopefully to come in the right suitable time before any striking injury) besides his "ON '' Fighting spirit is perhaps his strongest weapon that i respect and admire a lot.
We'll have to wait, support and see. no?

scarecrows
03-01-2007, 07:54 PM
Oh my god, i couldn't believe this, well done Mikhail!!! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: Nadders is really not great at the moment, he needs to up his game soon or he's really gonna get left behind by Fed.

:confused:

he isn't behind now?

shotgun
03-01-2007, 07:56 PM
Nalbandian said once, that the Wimbledon final was too early for him. Maybe the same goes with Rafa

I disagree, the Wimbledon final is nothing compared to his two Roland Garros titles. While Nalbandian, on the other hand, had never done something great before his 02 Wimbledon final, and went on to never reach a GS final again.

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 07:58 PM
I disagree, the Wimbledon final is nothing compared to his two Roland Garros titles. While Nalbandian, on the other hand, had never done something great before his 02 Wimbledon final, and went on to never reach a GS final again.

I think Adler meant that the big successes came too early -in David's case, Wimbledon final and in rafa's, the two french

jazar
03-01-2007, 08:00 PM
why is it that nadal only starts to attack properly when he is about to lose the match?

SLICK
03-01-2007, 08:00 PM
Nadal v Youzhny match report and press conference quotes.

http://www.inside-tennis.net/index.php?action=news&id=2485

RickDaStick
03-01-2007, 08:01 PM
I know Rafa would find something to blame but i didnt think it would be Hawkeye.

Nadal felt that the Hawkeye decision that gave Youzhny the first set was incorrect.

"Last point of the first set was difficult for me; the ball was out and the challenge says it is in. Stupid rule."

Rogiman
03-01-2007, 08:03 PM
"Last point of the first set was difficult for me; the ball was out and the challenge says it is in. Stupid rule.":haha:

"Bad, bad machine!"

:retard:

shotgun
03-01-2007, 08:03 PM
I think Adler meant that the big successes came too early -in David's case, Wimbledon final and in rafa's, the two french

Oh, I stand corrected then! :D

Even though I still think Nalbandian's TMC title is worth more than his appearance at the Wimbledon final.

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 08:05 PM
Oh, I stand corrected then! :D

Even though I still think Nalbandian's TMC title is worth more than his appearance at the Wimbledon final.

Adler might disagree with my interpretation of his sentence :D
But that's how I took it. If not, then your point is surely more sensible, I don't think Nalbo's final appearance is nearly anything near his Cup win (and particularly how he won it)

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 08:06 PM
:haha:

"Bad, bad machine!"

:retard:

Funny huh, both an MP in Fed;s match and a SP in nadal's ended up being challenged and overturned
Maybe Hawkeye would have changed the course of history if it was instituted in the 70s !

t0x
03-01-2007, 08:07 PM
I know Rafa would find something to blame but i didnt think it would be Hawkeye.

Nadal felt that the Hawkeye decision that gave Youzhny the first set was incorrect.

"Last point of the first set was difficult for me; the ball was out and the challenge says it is in. Stupid rule."

You can't argue with Hawkeye really...

ezekiel
03-01-2007, 08:07 PM
I know Rafa would find something to blame but i didnt think it would be Hawkeye.

Nadal felt that the Hawkeye decision that gave Youzhny the first set was incorrect.

"Last point of the first set was difficult for me; the ball was out and the challenge says it is in. Stupid rule."

It was the closest of calls but I would call it out so Rafa has a point. Still it's hard to blame 1 point for loss

rofe
03-01-2007, 08:08 PM
I know Rafa would find something to blame but i didnt think it would be Hawkeye.

Nadal felt that the Hawkeye decision that gave Youzhny the first set was incorrect.

"Last point of the first set was difficult for me; the ball was out and the challenge says it is in. Stupid rule."

:baby: Enough said.

scoobs
03-01-2007, 08:09 PM
Blaming the equipment. Not good, Rafa - you're more than happy to accept the decisions when they go in your favour.

Don't start going there, kiddo.

aulus
03-01-2007, 08:09 PM
"Last point of the first set was difficult for me; the ball was out and the challenge says it is in. Stupid rule."

:rolleyes:

scoobs
03-01-2007, 08:10 PM
In fact to Rafa I would point out that Federer lost the second set today on an extremely unlucky dead letcord return while setpoint down. Does he moan and wail about the unfairness of the net? No. He accepted malign fate and got on with it.

Disappointing to hear that.

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 08:12 PM
It was the closest of calls but I would call it out so Rafa has a point. Still it's hard to blame 1 point for loss

What are you saying? That players' eyesight is better than Hawkeye?
I mean, there are many many close calls. It's not that if a player thinks it's in then it is.

The MP in Federer's match was similarly overturned.

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 08:13 PM
In fact to Rafa I would point out that Federer lost the second set today on an extremely unlucky dead letcord return while setpoint down.

And before that, the matchball was overturned. He would have won it straights. He correctly accepted it, becuase he has also had calls overturned in his favor with Hawkeye. So it would be very disingenuous for him to call it stupid suddenly because it went against him on a point.

Adler
03-01-2007, 08:14 PM
Adler might disagree with my interpretation of his sentence :D
But that's how I took it. If not, then your point is surely more sensible, I don't think Nalbo's final appearance is nearly anything near his Cup win (and particularly how he won it)
I just meant that in both cases great expectations suddenly appeared

Nalbi was a great talented junior, he reaches Wimby final and he's ARGENTINIAN. They're said to be dirtballers and he reaches the final! (yeah, I know the story about grandpa's court) "Damn, the guy is talented as hell, he will become great" people thought

Rafa was a great junior too (Wimbledon junior SF - anyone remembers?). He'd got a shot at Federer, he's unbeatable on clay and plays well on HC. So he's expected to play at least in the final of every tournament he plays in, and become No.1 in a short time

People tend to forget tennis players are mostly very young people. 18-20 years - it's not really that much. Nalbi likes carting, Rafa - playing Fifa on playstation. And the're said to be the Great Future Masters. Rafa even got this big poster in Barcelona last year. Give them some slack, maybe they'll grow up like Agassi. Or maybe I'm just wrong

Lendl's Forehand
03-01-2007, 08:22 PM
Wasn't even a bad match from Nadal but something has gone...the air of success seems to have evaporated from around him. It wasn't effortless success because he had to work very hard every match but the sense of inevitability about him winning every match has gone. In 2005 it was there, in 2006 it returned up until Wimbledon but it's been MIA ever since.

I don't get it.

What's changed?

The expectations have changed. He's expected to win when he walks on the court. On the way up, it was all gravy and glory and if he lost not too big of a deal. Now, if he loses its perceived as a huge disappointment, a shocking result. Its very tough to adjust to that - especially when you are a counterpuncher like him. If you have a huge weapon like a serve or a forehand you can always rely on that to bail you out in tight spots. Not so for a player like Nadal.

Clara Bow
03-01-2007, 08:24 PM
As I am working from home today I was able to catch parts of the match. (tee hee!)

Well done Misha. A totally deserved win. It is so wonderful to see a player with a lot of talent finally have the consistancy and to see his talent bearing fruit. And he is so much fun to watch! :hearts: A great game and a very endearing presence. His little shoulder shakes were even cute. Frankly- I think he is adorable.

As others have said, Nadal actually did not play bad. He had some good moments during the match. It was also nice to see him going down swinging. He lost to the better play today- that is all, no excuses.

Speaking of excuses- why did Rafa have to ruin some very gracious comments about Misha with that whiney comment about Hawkeye? As his confidence has been rattled, he has frankly had some very immature and petulant sounding comments. It is not becoming and he needs to cut it out. I still think that he is overall a nice young man (I do really like that he always takes time to sign autos after losses) but he needs to find the maturity that he had when he lost in 2005 and for 2006 through Madrid. Time to grow up Rafa!

I don't think it is time to play Taps for Rafa in terms of his career or anything. But he is at a very important crossroads. Other players are figuring out how to beat him. But- just as, if not more important- he is failing to realize how to beat other players. He can have great tactics for parts of matches (and will get the resulting points), but then fails to utilize them at other times. I'm not saying he will always beat all- but I would like to see a better use of strategy at times.

I really hope that Misha is not too tuckered and can carry his form into the final. Have to say- I loved how anxious he was to thank the Russian fans.

ezekiel
03-01-2007, 08:24 PM
What are you saying? That players' eyesight is better than Hawkeye?
I mean, there are many many close calls. It's not that if a player thinks it's in then it is.

The MP in Federer's match was similarly overturned.

I am talking about a hawkeye, it looked like it was out by a hair but I am not sure. Federer's ball was called out as it was clearly out, no doubt

BD006
03-01-2007, 08:28 PM
:worship: Mikhail

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 08:32 PM
I am talking about a hawkeye, it looked like it was out by a hair but I am not sure. Federer's ball was called out as it was clearly out, no doubt

Yes, that's the point. You are not sure because the human eye cannot discern between close calls. That is why Hawkeye has to be used. Hawkeye doesn't suddenly become stupid when it is unfavorable on close calls does it? Either players agree with its calls both favorable and unfavorable, or it is just stupid for all time.

Clara Bow
03-01-2007, 08:33 PM
I just meant that in both cases great expectations suddenly appeared

One interesting thing to add is that if I recall correctly, Youzhny has said that he felt that his great performance during the 2002 Davis Cup may have come at too young of an age and he did not really know how to deal with the expectations. Granted- it is not the same lines of Rafa, David or Safin at the USO- but it is still interesting that Misha himself has said that early expectations were a problem for him.

But now- as a 24 year old- maybe he finally able to deal with his talent and expectations of others.

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 08:34 PM
As I am working from home today I was able to catch parts of the match. (tee hee!)

Well done Misha. A totally deserved win. It is so wonderful to see a player with a lot of talent finally have the consistancy and to see his talent bearing fruit. And he is so much fun to watch! :hearts: A great game and a very endearing presence. His little shoulder shakes were even cute. Frankly- I think he is adorable.

As others have said, Nadal actually did not play bad. He had some good moments during the match. It was also nice to see him going down swinging. He lost to the better play today- that is all, no excuses.

Speaking of excuses- why did Rafa have to ruin some very gracious comments about Misha with that whiney comment about Hawkeye? As his confidence has been rattled, he has frankly had some very immature and petulant sounding comments. It is not becoming and he needs to cut it out. I still think that he is overall a nice young man (I do really like that he always takes time to sign autos after losses) but he needs to find the maturity that he had when he lost in 2005 and for 2006 through Madrid. Time to grow up Rafa!

I don't think it is time to play Taps for Rafa in terms of his career or anything. But he is at a very important crossroads. Other players are figuring out how to beat him. But- just as, if not more important- he is failing to realize how to beat other players. He can have great tactics for parts of matches (and will get the resulting points), but then fails to utilize them at other times. I'm not saying he will always beat all- but I would like to see a better use of strategy at times.

I really hope that Misha is not too tuckered and can carry his form into the final. Have to say- I loved how anxious he was to thank the Russian fans.

I wish I had written this post;) Loved Misha's wins at the USO and have been following him ever since. Anyone who dares to call me a bandwagoner better say it to my face :armed: ;)

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 08:35 PM
I agree with what you guys are saying about Nadal complaining about the line-calling - he shouldn't be complaining about a system that applies to every player - but it should serve as a reminder that Hawkeye isn't necessarily infallible. Like last year during the clay season when Hawkeye/Shotspot/Whatever would show a ball in but the mark on the clay was well out, or vice versa.

It is not infallible, I think everyone agrees with that. But there is simply no reason to think it only overturns from in to out or out to in, or go against one player consistently. It balances out on average.
If you are willing to take points based on Hawk overturns, you should be willing to give points on Hawk overturns.

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 08:35 PM
I wish I had written this post;) Loved Misha's wins at the USO and have been following him ever since. Anyone who dares to call me a bandwagoner better say it to my face :armed: ;)

Comrade Bandwagoner

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 08:35 PM
One interesting thing to add is that if I recall correctly, Youzhny has said that he felt that his great performance during the 2002 Davis Cup may have come at too young of an age and he did not really know how to deal with the expectations. Granted- it is not the same lines of Rafa, David or Safin at the USO- but it is still interesting that Misha himself has said that early expectations were a problem for him.

But now- as a 24 year old- maybe he finally able to deal with his talent and expectations of others.

Would you stop it with the good posts:p Actually I remember reading that about him as well so you recall correctly.

Rogiman
03-01-2007, 08:36 PM
Misha is one of the most entertaining players to watch, the guy is just a beautiful shotmaker.

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 08:36 PM
Comrade Bandwagoner

To bad you can't read my lips:p

TenHound
03-01-2007, 08:42 PM
Congratulations to Misha :) He's moved up from #25 -> #14 already this yr. Hopefully he'll break into the Top 10 when summer hc season gets underway. BUT there's Nothing Cute about shaking his shoulder - does he have any injury there?? Another poster early in this thread said something about a sore shoulder. Yikes, Misha, pls. no more injury time-outs. It's ok w/me if he loses from exhaustion next round, much as I would prefer to see him in the finals, 'cuz he could use all the rest he can get prior to IW w/its greater points. Onward & Upward, Misha :)

scoobs
03-01-2007, 08:42 PM
Well, we're in agreement then - that's why I said he shouldn't be complaining about a system that affects every player equally. :) My point was just that he could very well have been correct about the line call, even if it was sour grapes causing him to speak out of turn.
Possibly so - but take it on the chin, Rafa - in tennis as in life, shit happens.

I think this is the first real moment of petulance I've seen from him in his response to what he perceives to be misfortune - "stupid rule."

I don't much like it.

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 08:42 PM
Well, we're in agreement then - that's why I said he shouldn't be complaining about a system that affects every player equally. :) My point was just that he could very well have been correct about the line call, even if it was sour grapes causing him to speak out of turn.

Wasnt your avator or aviator or whatever different just seconds ago?

scoobs
03-01-2007, 08:51 PM
Well, it's bad because if he keeps attributing these losses to things like "stupid rules" he sounds like he's more focused on outside matters that shouldn't concern him instead of being focused on what he can do to, you know, improve.
Indeed. I think that's the danger - the attitude that the problems are outside his control.

I just watched that setpoint (I missed it the first time around) and

a) I did think the ball just caught the line
b) Nadal was uncharacteristically furious on court - he threw a ball backward in anger, argued with the umpire and slammed is racquet down after he'd sat down in his chair. Most unusual to see the pressure to get to him like that.

dorkino
03-01-2007, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Clara Bow
As I am working from home today I was able to catch parts of the match. (tee hee!)

Well done Misha. A totally deserved win. It is so wonderful to see a player with a lot of talent finally have the consistancy and to see his talent bearing fruit. And he is so much fun to watch! :hearts: A great game and a very endearing presence. His little shoulder shakes were even cute. Frankly- I think he is adorable.

As others have said, Nadal actually did not play bad. He had some good moments during the match. It was also nice to see him going down swinging. He lost to the better play today- that is all, no excuses.

Speaking of excuses- why did Rafa have to ruin some very gracious comments about Misha with that whiney comment about Hawkeye? As his confidence has been rattled, he has frankly had some very immature and petulant sounding comments. It is not becoming and he needs to cut it out. I still think that he is overall a nice young man (I do really like that he always takes time to sign autos after losses) but he needs to find the maturity that he had when he lost in 2005 and for 2006 through Madrid. Time to grow up Rafa!

I don't think it is time to play Taps for Rafa in terms of his career or anything. But he is at a very important crossroads. Other players are figuring out how to beat him. But- just as, if not more important- he is failing to realize how to beat other players. He can have great tactics for parts of matches (and will get the resulting points), but then fails to utilize them at other times. I'm not saying he will always beat all- but I would like to see a better use of strategy at times.

I really hope that Misha is not too tuckered and can carry his form into the final. Have to say- I loved how anxious he was to thank the Russian fans.
:yeah: Agree.Youzhny deserves to get real good results for his level nowadays and some good forward steps in the ranking too. Now ,in Dubai he's close to reach the finals and of course becomes the runner up. Fed's still not to his all level but guess he can raise up his fighting mode when it matters.

As for Rafa's comment about the overrule. I ven't seen the match so i don't know anything about the ball story. In either way it shouldn't be an excuse.

But ,Who was who said "Sad people become evil?"
It's good he gave credit to Youzhny but uncle Toni have to draw Rafa's attention not to be dragged to these kinds of "victim role comments". Relax Nadal ,and Focus on ur own homework.

ezekiel
03-01-2007, 08:59 PM
I agree with what you guys are saying about Nadal complaining about the line-calling - he shouldn't be complaining about a system that applies to every player - but it should serve as a reminder that Hawkeye isn't necessarily infallible. Like last year during the clay season when Hawkeye/Shotspot/Whatever would show a ball in but the mark on the clay was well out, or vice versa.

There is nothing wrong with Hawkeye and its probably 100% correct but this ball that Rafa is talking about was very questionable as the hawkeye the ball and the line next to each other like I have never seen before. I wish there was replay :rolleyes:

Billabong
03-01-2007, 09:00 PM
Misha:woohoo: AWESOME win, keep it up man:D!!!!!!!!! I'm SO happy:D!!!

Clara Bow
03-01-2007, 09:00 PM
Loved Misha's wins at the USO and have been following him ever since. Anyone who dares to call me a bandwagoner better say it to my face

I wouldn't dare. :) But what is a bandwagoner? If you have never had that much exposure to a player, get some exposure and like what you see- and then follow his or her career with interest afterwards, to me that is a "new discovery" not really a bandwagon hop. And sometimes if a player you have liked for a while is having more success- it does give you a chance to talk about them more because there is only so much opportunity to talk about a player that is losing in a lot of first or second round matches and/or is out because of injury.

But if there is a Фургон с оркестром Youzhny- I hope the conductors wear old Soviet or Russian style military hats. It would be fitting. ;)

And while we are gushing about Misha- I love the fact that he is known for being one of the few players to actually regularly read a book in the locker room.

Well, it's bad because if he keeps attributing these losses to things like "stupid rules" he sounds like he's more focused on outside matters that shouldn't concern him instead of being focused on what he can do to, you know, improve.

Very true. He needs to realize that he can only control how he plays on the court. And if he starts focusing on things that he has no power to change- that will get him out of the zone. He used to be soooo match focused, but he is losing some of that. Just compare the Nadal who did not lose heart or become flustered during the Rome 2005 final. There is a difference.

cmurray
03-01-2007, 09:04 PM
I missed the match today, but I don't like to hear Rafa complaining over faulty machinery. He's better than that.

I like Misha, so nice work there! As others have said, he's just a great shot-maker and is great fun to watch. He'll be climbing the rankings, no doubt.

I don't think its fair to compare Rafa's attitude to Roger's. As I recall, Roger was MUCH worse behaved at that age than Rafa is. Give Raf some time to cope with disappointment...he's a good guy - he'll figure it out.

stebs
03-01-2007, 09:05 PM
Incidentally. I think it is very notable that Nadal is being beaten by players he has already beaten. Same has happened with many dfferent players. It is so tough to handle that spin and so many balls in play when people first meet Rafa. It appears that Nadal is given that natural edge when he first meets players which is then taken away. Also, fact is still there plain and simple:

Big hitters on form > Nadal on hardcourts

Simple as that, nothing to do with Nadal's form, he isn't aggresive enough to change that however well he implements his game.

I also feel he is looking a little stuck in the middle, doesn't know how much to attack and how much to defend. Results in a strange mix where rather than playing each match differently he plays each point differently. He will serve volley, play 15 feet behind the baseline and then start trying to hit flat, then hit more loopy.

My own opinion is that if Nadal tries to be more agressive it won't work, he isn't that player and if he tries that he will find himself being simply outplayed and outhit so much by players who are frankly doing what he wants to do already and doing it well. However, if he is going to try to be more agressive he needs to stick with it for a few matches and see how it works. His overall game in the long run is more important than an IS tournament.

lermin
03-01-2007, 09:08 PM
Mikhaïl !!! :worship: :worship:

LLeytonRules
03-01-2007, 09:14 PM
I would love to see Nadal do well but i really feel needs to change his game and his approach.Enough of the standing way behind the baseline routine.His grip also leaves alot of balls short.He wont last long if he keeps playing hardcourts like a clay tournament.I am surprised that many of the players dont come up more to the net, instead they go toe to toe from the baseline trading shots.Nadal will face alot of adversity this year.

Adler
03-01-2007, 09:20 PM
Фургон с оркестром
eszelon could be a good term too :)

Rogiman
03-01-2007, 09:20 PM
I watched the match with my babe.

I noticed she was impressed at first by Nadal's muscles, so I told her: "watch the skinny guy easily overpower him".

She got the idea after a couple of points :)

kobulingam
03-01-2007, 09:21 PM
I agree with what you guys are saying about Nadal complaining about the line-calling - he shouldn't be complaining about a system that applies to every player - but it should serve as a reminder that Hawkeye isn't necessarily infallible. Like last year during the clay season when Hawkeye/Shotspot/Whatever would show a ball in but the mark on the clay was well out, or vice versa.

They don't use the system in clay tournaments. Sometimes when you watch TV and they show the path of the ball and where it lands, that is NOT THIS SYSTEM. That might be done by a big broadcaster with a few cameras tracking the ball, not the many cameras that are in use for a ATP regulated tracking system.

FluffyYellowBall
03-01-2007, 09:26 PM
Indeed. I think that's the danger - the attitude that the problems are outside his control.

I just watched that setpoint (I missed it the first time around) and

a) I did think the ball just caught the line
b) Nadal was uncharacteristically furious on court - he threw a ball backward in anger, argued with the umpire and slammed is racquet down after he'd sat down in his chair. Most unusual to see the pressure to get to him like that.

Yea but i understand his frustration. This point would have made a huge difference. He knows he had a chnace to win that set after being being down 4-1. I dont think any player would be happy a call like that even if its hawk eye. Safin would have been dangerous if that happened to him! eeeek :0

kobulingam
03-01-2007, 09:28 PM
Congratulations to Misha :) He's moved up from #25 -> #14 already this yr. Hopefully he'll break into the Top 10 when summer hc season gets underway. BUT there's Nothing Cute about shaking his shoulder - does he have any injury there?? Another poster early in this thread said something about a sore shoulder. Yikes, Misha, pls. no more injury time-outs. It's ok w/me if he loses from exhaustion next round, much as I would prefer to see him in the finals, 'cuz he could use all the rest he can get prior to IW w/its greater points. Onward & Upward, Misha :)

His shoulder is sore. He was rubbing it before the match.

atheneglaukopis
03-01-2007, 09:32 PM
On the subject of the set point, Hawkeye showed the ball exactly tangent to the line. It may have been in, it may have been out--Hawkeye has a margin of error, and the actual result may have fallen on either side of it (or maybe it was exactly tangent). However, given that the rule is that Hawkeye has the final word in all cases where it's used, the rule applies equally to all players. Hawkeye may have a margin of error, but it's smaller than the human eye's, especially with the power of wishful thinking. In Rafa's defense, a tangent ball is tough to swallow on a set point, and let's all remember Safin's Law: Hawkeye is only 100% when it agrees with you. ;)

The Pro
03-01-2007, 09:37 PM
I watched the match with my babe.

I noticed she was impressed at first by Nadal's muscles, so I told her: "watch the skinny guy easily overpower him".

She got the idea after a couple of points :)

You realise it won't exactly be Mikhail she's thinking about the next time you to go to bed :p

Rogiman
03-01-2007, 09:42 PM
You realise it won't exactly be Mikhail she's thinking about the next time you to go to bed :pIt'd only be fair, since my thoughts wander to Dementieva :drool:

RonE
03-01-2007, 09:45 PM
Misha :D :banana:

Awesome performance he just keeps getting better and better :yeah:

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 09:47 PM
I wouldn't dare. :) But what is a bandwagoner? If you have never had that much exposure to a player, get some exposure and like what you see- and then follow his or her career with interest afterwards, to me that is a "new discovery" not really a bandwagon hop. And sometimes if a player you have liked for a while is having more success- it does give you a chance to talk about them more because there is only so much opportunity to talk about a player that is losing in a lot of first or second round matches and/or is out because of injury.

But if there is a Фургон с оркестром Youzhny- I hope the conductors wear old Soviet or Russian style military hats. It would be fitting. ;)

And while we are gushing about Misha- I love the fact that he is known for being one of the few players to actually regularly read a book in the locker room..

Agree on the reading. Along with the discovery approach.

Headbump
03-01-2007, 09:47 PM
why does Nadal stand 15 ft behind the baseline?

The Pro
03-01-2007, 09:47 PM
It'd only be fair, since my thoughts wander to Dementieva :drool:

Yeah, my brother likes her. With him I'd say it's cos he's yet to discover Ms Ivanovic.

adee-gee
03-01-2007, 10:10 PM
I only saw the first set then had to go out, so I can't fully comment.

Props to Youzhny. Deserved winner.

From Nadal, far too many nothing balls and he's still making errors when he's not even going for anything. The annoying thing is, when he's been aggressive this week, he's looked good. His forehand apart from a set against Baghdatis has been almost back to his best when he's been going for it. Youzhny pushed Rafa further and further behind the baseline and Rafa allowed it to happen far too easily.

I said after the Aussie Open that it's just not happening with Uncle Toni at the moment and I stick by it. I'm sure Rafa will still have a lot of success on the clay, but to be honest that's not really enough.

Come on Rafa, dancing Rasta is getting tired :awww:

jocaputs
03-01-2007, 10:16 PM
enjoy fedtards, until clay season gets going...:devil:

mallorn
03-01-2007, 10:17 PM
Nadal is still playing great tennis. He isn't losing to bad players, he's losing to a particular type of player, playing at the top of their level. The one thing that is missing is his supreme confidence. He might get it back when he returns to the clay.
:yeah:

As for people who call him a whiner for talking about Hawkeye, Rafa didn't say he lost the match because of Hawkeye - he gave props to Youzhny saying: He is playing very well all the time with big confidence. He is playing unbelievable, winning Rotterdam and now semi-final here too. Maybe the best moment of his career.
What Rafa said was that he lost the first set when technology failed, even though everybody knew the ball was out. The linesperson, the ump and both players saw the ball out. This is what Youzhny said:
It looked like it was out. I saw the mark, but I just took the challenge because it was a very important point. When it showed it was good I was a little bit shocked.
No comment.

adee-gee
03-01-2007, 10:19 PM
Am I the only one that doesn't really see Youzhny as a huge hitter? I wouldn't say he's able to blast Nadal off the court in the way that say Gonzalez did.....fact it, he's just a lot more confident than Nadal at the moment and is playing considerably better tennis.

scoobs
03-01-2007, 10:22 PM
We're talking about a mark on a hardcourt - what that might amount to is a little bit of moisture or fluff from the ball or slight scuffing - it might not be the full size of the ball's footprint as it hit the deck. I don't understand this "looking for a mark" thing on hardcourt as though it behaves the same as it does on clay.

connectolove
03-01-2007, 10:26 PM
Nadal's mojo is gooone! I hope that is gets back.

Rogiman
03-01-2007, 10:30 PM
Am I the only one that doesn't really see Youzhny as a huge hitter? I wouldn't say he's able to blast Nadal off the court in the way that say Gonzalez did.....fact it, he's just a lot more confident than Nadal at the moment and is playing considerably better tennis.Misha's BH is a killer shot.
Today it looked much bigger than Nadal's FH in the crosscourt rallies.

Rogiman
03-01-2007, 10:35 PM
What Rafa said was that he lost the first set when technology failed, even though everybody knew the ball was out. The linesperson, the ump and both players saw the ball out.

"technology failed"?? and you know it for a fact, right??
"everybody knew"?? :retard:

You know, being an obsessive fan who knows when a certain player goes to the toilet and when he eats his cereals doesn't mean you have to defend him at all costs and play advocate for every quote he releases at the heat of the moment.

JustmeUK
03-01-2007, 10:37 PM
Impressive stuff from Misha, too good today for Nadal. :hatoff:

Nothing new, Rafa struggles against these kind of players on fast surfaces if they´re in the top of their games, and Youzhny indeed was today. I don´t think Rafa is in bad shape, and I think we will be fine, just needs to built up again that self-confidence, hopefully this will come soon enough.

Hmm.. it looks like everytime Nadal is playing a hard hitter they are all at the top of their game! A little too much coincidence maybe. Perhaps there is another reason why he is losing to such players (see below)!

Nadal did beat 2 tough players to reach Youzhny, but I still feel his confidence is not high at all.

It is a little weird. Beating Baghdatis and Beating Andreev is no laughing matter, yet he loses these close matches to these types of players, aka Misha and other hard hitters.

All these recent matches Nadal has been losing, except in the AO, have mostly been close matches.

At his breakthrough year of 2005, Nadal not only won these close matches, he also had the element of surprise, like some of you have already mentioned.

However, the more players beat Nadal, the more other players know he is beatable and they will enter the court with confidence against him,

However, I cannot pinpoint exactly where Nadal is going wrong in his game.

It is related to a few things that people have already said. Lack of confidence => inability to play his best tennis (hitting the lines for winners or going for shots closer to lines rather than at the T) => opponents being able to dictate the point more easily (as shots are landing at the T) => losses against players who have enough pace to force shots through him even when he's 10 ft behind the baseline => lack of confidence.

Rinse and repeat.


hmm, I think Haas and Youzhny are playing better than Federer at the moment but still, Federer will have the edge over both of them

Federer will always bring it against anyone. He's got the abillity to raise his game and more than that he has the confidence of winning and winning and winning!

There is a wide gulf between #2 and #3 (not as big as between #1 and #2, but still wide enough), I don't think that he will need to worry about that.

Howver he will need to defend a lot during clay season to ensure that the gap doesn't become smaller. And then, there is that Final on grass that he needs to defend

Don't bet on it. Between Monte Carlo and Wimbledon he's defending 3000 points. At the moment he's sitting at 4480. If he continues this inability to get past qf at the next two TMS then he's not going to be much off 4500. And if he loses 1500 points of the 3k he needs to defend he's right back there with the other guys at 3/4.

Am I the only one that doesn't really see Youzhny as a huge hitter? I wouldn't say he's able to blast Nadal off the court in the way that say Gonzalez did.....fact it, he's just a lot more confident than Nadal at the moment and is playing considerably better tennis.

It's a mistake to think that only huge hitters can hit past Nadal. Youzhny isn't the biggest hitter but he has enough pace that when combined with accuracy he can dictate play against Nadal so that he eventually wins the point. He might not hit out and out winners and he's shown you don't have to especially seeing as Rafa is hitting balls back down to the T as opposed to 2 feet from the lines.

Corey Feldman
03-01-2007, 10:38 PM
Rafa's points take a hit..
-225
at this rate A-Rod might take him for No2 sometime later. :p

Corey Feldman
03-01-2007, 10:41 PM
Hmm.. it looks like everytime Nadal is playing a hard hitter they are all at the top of their game! A little too much coincidence maybe.That is a classic Roddick fan line when duck loses.. "why do these guys play the match of their LIFE against Andy!!!!??? :rolleyes: "

:lol:

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 10:43 PM
Rafa's points take a hit..
-225
at this rate A-Rod might take him for No2 sometime later. :p

That would be loverly:kiss:

LinkMage
03-01-2007, 10:47 PM
I don't like Nadal, but Hawkeye is not 100% accurate. Once, the ball mark was shown out by Hawkeye but it said "in" in the screen.

tcorinna
03-01-2007, 10:48 PM
I want to congratulate Masha ... He is my second favourite rusian player ... Marat is the first:devil:

Also congrats to Rog :worship: :worship: :worship:

Corey Feldman
03-01-2007, 10:55 PM
I don't like Nadal, but Hawkeye is not 100% accurate. Once, the ball mark was shown out by Hawkeye but it said "in" in the screen.when it did a big close up.... about 1mm of the ball caught the line, i have Hawkeye's of my own, i seen it :p
That would be loverly:kiss: :kiss:
fed, roddick top2 seeds at Wimbledon this year? who knows

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 10:55 PM
I don't like Nadal, but Hawkeye is not 100% accurate. Once, the ball mark was shown out by Hawkeye but it said "in" in the screen.

It is definitely not 100% accurate, even the manufacturer of Hawkeye would say that.

The issue talked about here is not whether Hawkeye was correct or not, it is about expressing anger about the stupidity of Hawkeye on calls that go against you, when you have also benefited from calls in your favor by Hawkeye and it is not then deemed stupid. That sounds somewhat disingenuous.

sawan66278
03-01-2007, 10:57 PM
I was unable to watch the first set of this match, but saw the match from the middle of the second onward. Misha (and I was at the U.S. Open quarterfinal between the two of them) was playing even better today than he did that day. And Rafa played MUCH better today (from what I saw). At 3-2 in the second, Misha UNLEASHED one of the biggest one-handed backhands I have seen in years!!!!!!!!

But back to Rafa...I saw a few things I really liked today. His net play was very impressive (the backhand overhead smash to save match point was unbelievable). He was more aggressive from the baseline...though at times, he did retreat to "Dubai". A few serve and volley attempts. People have to remember: yes, his confidence is not where it was last year. But this is going to be the case when your game is being tweaked and you are trying new things. Look at Uncle Toni during his matches: he is laughing and applauding his Rafa AND his opponent's play. Why? Because he knows that a tennis career is a marathon, not a sprint. He knows Rafa's game is going to have to expand, but also appreciates the fact that he is ONLY 20 years of age. And Rafa has yet to show signs of real difficulty with his age group of players (other than Berdych...and how often will he play him in the future?)

It appears to me that his losses are often simply a case of match-ups. The Blake/Misha attacking players give him fits on faster surfaces. However, how many Blakes and Mishas are there? Or Berdych's for that matter? Rafa has shown his mettle against the other top ranked players like Davy, Ivan, Marcos...and of course, Roger.

Rafa will be fine...he may drop to #3 or #4...but, as I have stated for the last six months, watch out in 2008 and 2009...

Art&Soul
03-01-2007, 10:58 PM
Misha :woohoo: I knew you can do it hehe pig roasted :banana:

mallorn
03-01-2007, 10:59 PM
"technology failed"?? and you know it for a fact, right??
I said: "What Rafa said was that he lost the first set when technology failed" - not that I knew it for a fact. What is a fact is that the system is not 100% accurate and that all four people concerned saw the ball out.
"everybody knew"?? :retard:
The linesperson called it out, the ump saw it out, both players saw it out - that's what "everybody knew" meant.

Geez, reading is a difficult art.
You know, being an obsessive fan who knows when a certain player goes to the toilet and when he eats his cereals doesn't mean you have to defend him at all costs and play advocate for every quote he releases at the heat of the moment.
Making inane assumptions about me, again? Why don't you put me on ignore, you'll do us both a favour. Or else, go roast yourself.

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 11:00 PM
Ok I have been looking online for what the actual % accuracy rate of Hawkeye is, and not even the offical website gives that information :shrug: Anyone remember reading it anywhere?

Voo de Mar
03-01-2007, 11:01 PM
I want to congratulate Masha ... He is my second favourite rusian player ... Marat is the first:devil:



Same here :wavey:

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 11:02 PM
Ok I have been looking online for what the actual % accuracy rate of Hawkeye is, and not even the offical website gives that information :shrug: Anyone remember reading it anywhere?

Yes, I will dig it up for you. Hold on. ... I might even have saved a webpage

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 11:03 PM
The error rate during the actual test was 3.6 millimeters. That higher distribution isn’t even across all the test results but the way the system was set up — and there are technical reasons for this — we have a lower error on the really, really close ones compared to…say….10 centimeters. In actual fact, in all 500 tests that we have done since the 1990’s we’ve got every single call correct.

Interview with the creator, Dr. Hawkins

http://www.sportsmediainc.net/tennisweek/index.cfm?func=showarticle&newsid=15941&bannerregion=

Rogiman
03-01-2007, 11:04 PM
The linesperson called it out, the ump saw it out, both players saw it out - that's what "everybody knew" meant.

Geez, reading is a difficult art.
They "saw" a ball travelling fast and landing tangent to a line, and on the spot they all "knew" it was off the line, right.

This is what this kind of technology is used for, spare the dilemma.

Geez, thinking is a difficult art.

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 11:08 PM
The linesperson called it out, the ump saw it out, both players saw it out - that's what "everybody knew" meant.

I don't think Youzhny would have challenged, even on a very important point, if it was very obviously out. It was such a close call, and it was an important point. Why not challenge, the loss of a challenge against the possibility of winning the set.

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 11:09 PM
The error rate during the actual test was 3.6 millimeters. That higher distribution isn’t even across all the test results but the way the system was set up — and there are technical reasons for this — we have a lower error on the really, really close ones compared to…say….10 centimeters. In actual fact, in all 500 tests that we have done since the 1990’s we’ve got every single call correct.

Interview with the creator, Dr. Hawkins

http://www.sportsmediainc.net/tennisweek/index.cfm?func=showarticle&newsid=15941&bannerregion=

I read that but that does not tell you an accuracy rate only a mean difference in measurement that can occur. When I read that article ( tennis week), as well as the official site they made it appear to be almost 100% accurate.

mallorn
03-01-2007, 11:09 PM
They "saw" a ball travelling fast and landing tangent to a line, and on the spot they all "knew" it was off the line, right.
When were they going to know, half an hour later? That's what line calling is about, knowing on the spot...and knowing the spot.
This is what this kind of technology is used for, spare the dilemma.
Again, the technology is not 100% accurate.
Geez, thinking is a difficult art.
How about that ignore function?

mangoes
03-01-2007, 11:12 PM
I know Rafa would find something to blame but i didnt think it would be Hawkeye.

Nadal felt that the Hawkeye decision that gave Youzhny the first set was incorrect.

"Last point of the first set was difficult for me; the ball was out and the challenge says it is in. Stupid rule."

I can't believe Nadal whined about this. If it had been the other way around, I don't think he would have had a problem with the call. I don't think it's fair to blame hawkeye for this. There is a good chance the system was correct and given the rules, the ball caught a centimeter of the line so it was good.........such is life. There is a percentage of error in Hawkeye, but it is by far more likely to be accurate than human eyes.

mallorn
03-01-2007, 11:12 PM
I don't think Youzhny would have challenged, even on a very important point, if it was very obviously out. It was such a close call, and it was an important point. Why not challenge, the loss of a challenge against the possibility of winning the set.
I should hope the technology is not as hopeless as to show 'very obviously out' balls as 'in'.

He said he thought it was out, saw the mark as out, was a little shocked when he saw the Hawkeye replay.

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 11:13 PM
I read that but that does not tell you an accuracy rate only a mean difference in measurement that can occur. When I read that article ( tennis week), as well as the official site they made it appear to be almost 100% accurate.

What is it you're looking for? A figure, like how many did it correctly call out of 100 balls? Or something else?

Rogiman
03-01-2007, 11:15 PM
When were they going to know, half an hour later? That's what line calling is about, knowing on the spot...and knowing the spot.And that is exactly why line-calling sucks, because no human being can track a ball flying at these speeds.
They never "know", at best they "think".

Again, the technology is not 100% accurate.If I am to choose between a human eye to that technology I have no doubt what my choice is.

How about that ignore function?If I do apply it, will I also get rid of your alias castafiore?

scoobs
03-01-2007, 11:16 PM
I'm just not convinced looking at a mark on a hardcourt is more accurate than the technology. I don't think the mark is necessarily the full footprint of the ball touching the court on a hardcourt.

Rogiman
03-01-2007, 11:18 PM
I'm just not convinced looking at a mark on a hardcourt is more accurate than the technology.It is, if it's your favourite player that's concerned.

Otherwise it isn't.

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 11:18 PM
I should hope the technology is not as hopeless as to show 'very obviously out' balls as 'in'.

He said he thought it was out, saw the mark as out, was a little shocked when he saw the Hawkeye replay.

Let me put it this way. If Youzhny, on the other side of the court, had complained that the ball was in when it hit rafa's side of the court and he felt he should have got an overrule from the ump, people would very correctly say -- he couldn't possibly see from the other side of the court.

Now, when he is saying that he thought it was out, people seem to feel that players on the opposite side of the court from where the ball left a mark is suddennly able to see that well and give a lot of credibility to his statement. Sounds odd :shrug:

Kolya
03-01-2007, 11:18 PM
Misha on fire!!!

LLeytonRules
03-01-2007, 11:18 PM
I wouldnt be surprised if Soderling beats Youzhny.Youzhny must be tired and he plays the first match.

Voo de Mar
03-01-2007, 11:18 PM
I should hope the technology is not as hopeless as to show 'very obviously out' balls as 'in'.

He said he thought it was out, saw the mark as out, was a little shocked when he saw the Hawkeye replay.

Nadal can think whatever he want but for sure today he was a worse player than Misha and even if ball on this set point was 3 mm "out", that wasn't the reason of todays Rafa's defeat.

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 11:19 PM
What is it you're looking for? A figure, like how many did it correctly call out of 100 balls? Or something else?

Yes:) Maybe it isn't possible to measure that as it can't compare itself to anything better :shrug: Reading the physics information though I would make a guestimate that it is very near 100%.

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 11:20 PM
I read that but that does not tell you an accuracy rate only a mean difference in measurement that can occur. When I read that article ( tennis week), as well as the official site they made it appear to be almost 100% accurate.

Maybe this is what you are looking for:

How does it work?
Hawk-Eye uses six cameras set up at different angles around a tennis court or cricket ground that record the trajectory of the ball through the air. All these recordings are then sent by wireless technology to one computer, where the software combines all this information frame by frame to give a three-dimensional flight trajectory of the ball accurate to four millimetres – 99.99 per cent accuracy.


So you do get jipped, 1/100th of 1% of the time. :p

http://www.scenta.co.uk/sport/features.cfm?FaArea1=widgets.content_print_1&cit_id=1249358

Voo de Mar
03-01-2007, 11:21 PM
I wouldnt be surprised if Soderling beats Youzhny.Youzhny must be tired and he plays the first match.

Agree. I'm still waiting a big success for Soderling - this man can all the skills to winning big tournaments on hard and carpet courts.

Rogiman
03-01-2007, 11:23 PM
Yes:) Maybe it isn't possible to measure that as it can't compare itself to anything better :shrug: Reading the physics information though I would make a guestimate that it is very near 100%.Well, if they say the average error is 3.6 mm, then according to the weak law of large numbers the probability of the average error of a large sample to be at any distance from 3.6 mm converges to zero, if that helps :)

mangoes
03-01-2007, 11:23 PM
This isn't the first time that a ball has been challenged and the hawkeye showed it to have caught the line by a couple millimeters. Other players in similar situations couldn't believe their luck, but accepted the ruling. I don't understand why this is an issue. There is a percentage of error in everything.

aulus
03-01-2007, 11:23 PM
I can't believe Nadal whined about this. If it had been the other way around, I don't think he would have had a problem with the call. I don't think it's fair to blame hawkeye for this. There is a good chance the system was correct and given the rules, the ball caught a centimeter of the line so it was good.........such is life. There is a percentage of error in Hawkeye, but it is by far more likely to be accurate than human eyes.

nadal successfully challenged later in the match where his ball barely touched the line.

tcorinna
03-01-2007, 11:24 PM
I don't realy like nadal and I could be subjectiv ... but isn't he always do that? ... I mean blaiming others? ... I remember that after Gonzo beat him he said that he could't play good because he had a pain in his a**, I've saw the match and I can say that Gonzo kick nadal's a** soo bed and that he didn't stand a chance :bounce: :smash: :smash:

cobalt60
03-01-2007, 11:24 PM
Maybe this is what you are looking for:

How does it work?
Hawk-Eye uses six cameras set up at different angles around a tennis court or cricket ground that record the trajectory of the ball through the air. All these recordings are then sent by wireless technology to one computer, where the software combines all this information frame by frame to give a three-dimensional flight trajectory of the ball accurate to four millimetres – 99.99 per cent accuracy.


So you do get jipped, 1/100th of 1% of the time. :p

http://www.scenta.co.uk/sport/features.cfm?FaArea1=widgets.content_print_1&cit_id=1249358

See my post above yours:p

mallorn
03-01-2007, 11:25 PM
And that is exactly why line-calling sucks, because no human being can track a ball flying at these speeds.
They never "know", at best they "think".
I guess a guy like Lahyani is a robot then.
If I am to choose between a human eye to that technology I have no doubt what my choice is.
Technology is great, including this one. But I don't trust it blindly (no pun intended).
If I do apply it, will I also get rid of your alias castafiore?
I can't talk for her but I wish you did it already.

mallorn
03-01-2007, 11:26 PM
Nadal can think whatever he want but for sure today he was a worse player than Misha and even if ball on this set point was 3 mm "out", that wasn't the reason of todays Rafa's defeat.
Go back a few posts and read Rafa's comment about Misha.

Johnny Groove
03-01-2007, 11:27 PM
I didnt see the match, but i must say, apparently, he played well but misha was too good. get that form back rafa.

drf716
03-01-2007, 11:29 PM
mikhail!!!!

shotgun
03-01-2007, 11:31 PM
It is, if it's your favourite player that's concerned.

Otherwise it isn't.

:lol:

GlennMirnyi
03-01-2007, 11:32 PM
:lol: :lol: Well, I wouldn't say so, the FO is on Clay. This was on a hardcourt and Nadal didn't exactly play a bad match for a HC.



Yep, I agree.

The funniest thing is that people say he didn't play badly, but in the end he got thumped in straights. :lol:

Blaming the equipment. Not good, Rafa - you're more than happy to accept the decisions when they go in your favour.

Don't start going there, kiddo.

Décadance avec arrogance.

I agree with what you guys are saying about Nadal complaining about the line-calling - he shouldn't be complaining about a system that applies to every player - but it should serve as a reminder that Hawkeye isn't necessarily infallible. Like last year during the clay season when Hawkeye/Shotspot/Whatever would show a ball in but the mark on the clay was well out, or vice versa.

You don't use this system on clay, you look at the mark.

Incidentally. I think it is very notable that Nadal is being beaten by players he has already beaten. Same has happened with many dfferent players. It is so tough to handle that spin and so many balls in play when people first meet Rafa. It appears that Nadal is given that natural edge when he first meets players which is then taken away. Also, fact is still there plain and simple:

Big hitters on form > Nadal on hardcourts

Simple as that, nothing to do with Nadal's form, he isn't aggresive enough to change that however well he implements his game.

I also feel he is looking a little stuck in the middle, doesn't know how much to attack and how much to defend. Results in a strange mix where rather than playing each match differently he plays each point differently. He will serve volley, play 15 feet behind the baseline and then start trying to hit flat, then hit more loopy.

My own opinion is that if Nadal tries to be more agressive it won't work, he isn't that player and if he tries that he will find himself being simply outplayed and outhit so much by players who are frankly doing what he wants to do already and doing it well. However, if he is going to try to be more agressive he needs to stick with it for a few matches and see how it works. His overall game in the long run is more important than an IS tournament.

Nadal doesn't know how to attack. That's why everytime he tries to be aggressive he starts with the UE and/or gets a big shot that pushes him back.

why does Nadal stand 15 ft behind the baseline?

Can't play tennis.

I only saw the first set then had to go out, so I can't fully comment.

Props to Youzhny. Deserved winner.

From Nadal, far too many nothing balls and he's still making errors when he's not even going for anything. The annoying thing is, when he's been aggressive this week, he's looked good. His forehand apart from a set against Baghdatis has been almost back to his best when he's been going for it. Youzhny pushed Rafa further and further behind the baseline and Rafa allowed it to happen far too easily.

I said after the Aussie Open that it's just not happening with Uncle Toni at the moment and I stick by it. I'm sure Rafa will still have a lot of success on the clay, but to be honest that's not really enough.

Come on Rafa, dancing Rasta is getting tired :awww:

:haha:

No excuses today? :haha: :haha:

enjoy fedtards, until clay season gets going...:devil:

Didn't expect this from you, Eric... :sad:

That is a classic Roddick fan line when duck loses.. "why do these guys play the match of their LIFE against Andy!!!!??? :rolleyes: "

:lol:

:haha:

I said: "What Rafa said was that he lost the first set when technology failed" - not that I knew it for a fact. What is a fact is that the system is not 100% accurate and that all four people concerned saw the ball out.

The linesperson called it out, the ump saw it out, both players saw it out - that's what "everybody knew" meant.


So the technology fails, but Nadal doesn't. Yeah, you're really rational. :cuckoo:





This said, Nadal only shows more and more what I've been saying for a long time: he's a sore loser. Next time he'll blame the guy who painted the court. :lol:

mallorn
03-01-2007, 11:33 PM
Let me put it this way. If Youzhny, on the other side of the court, had complained that the ball was in when it hit rafa's side of the court and he felt he should have got an overrule from the ump, people would very correctly say -- he couldn't possibly see from the other side of the court.

Now, when he is saying that he thought it was out, people seem to feel that players on the opposite side of the court from where the ball left a mark is suddennly able to see that well and give a lot of credibility to his statement. Sounds odd :shrug:
Why would he say he saw it OUT (that's against his own interests) if he didn't? And it was right under the umpire's nose too.

mallorn
03-01-2007, 11:35 PM
So the technology fails, but Nadal doesn't. Yeah, you're really rational. :cuckoo:
Another one that struggles with reading. What else is new.

Rogiman
03-01-2007, 11:38 PM
Another one that struggles with reading. What else is new.The funny thing about you is that you pretend to be objective, whereas your posts are some of the most biased rubbish out there...

Go read some spanish paper about where Rafa is eating his lunch tomorrow...

R.Federer
03-01-2007, 11:43 PM
Why would he say he saw it OUT (that's against his own interests) if he didn't? And it was right under the umpire's nose too.

Because this is the post match interview. Is it going to reverse the result? Against what interests of his is it exactly?

My question is -- would you give credibility to his statement if he was complaining about a call against him and he saw it from the far side? Suddenly here Misha's words are being taken at face value. Suppose he said in his post match that he was SURE that the ball was in and that's why he challenged it. At the same time, you saw that Hawkeye was not accurate with this call. In that case, wouldn't you give the benefit of the doubt to the player whose side the ball fell on? No?

Misha's eyesight on this call are really not relevant, because he was far enough that it is a lucky guess what he thinks about where it landed. His comments are being used to bolster the argument only because it happens that he said he thought it was out. I am quite sure that his opinion would have been discounted out of hand if it did not match up with the opponent's :shrug:

GlennMirnyi
03-01-2007, 11:45 PM
Another one that struggles with reading. What else is new.

And you struggle with logic.

The funny thing about you is that you pretend to be objective, whereas your posts are some of the most biased rubbish out there...

Go read some spanish paper about where Rafa is eating his lunch tomorrow...

:lol:

goldenlox
03-01-2007, 11:45 PM
Youzhny has been playing some good tennis

Johnny Groove
03-01-2007, 11:47 PM
The funniest thing is that people say he didn't play badly, but in the end he got thumped in straights. :lol:

because the scoreline always tells the whole story :rolleyes:

scarecrows
03-01-2007, 11:50 PM
This said, Nadal only shows more and more what I've been saying for a long time: he's a sore loser. Next time he'll blame the guy who painted the court. :lol:

that bastard had painted it in a lighter blue this year which was not good for rafito's eyes :awww:

RickDaStick
03-01-2007, 11:52 PM
I love how the rafatards are always calling Ljubo a sore loser. Atleast the ivan doesnt freaking blame hawkeye for his loss.

mallorn
03-01-2007, 11:54 PM
Because this is the post match interview. Is it going to reverse the result? Against what interests of his is it exactly?
So because it's a post match interview he would say the ball was out even though he thought it was in? :confused:
(The ball going out was against his interests, that's what I meant.)
My question is -- would you give credibility to his statement if he was complaining about a call against him and he saw it from the far side? Suddenly here Misha's words are being taken at face value. Suppose he said in his post match that he was SURE that the ball was in and that's why he challenged it. At the same time, you saw that Hawkeye was not accurate with this call. In that case, wouldn't you give the benefit of the doubt to the player whose side the ball fell on? No?
I'm giving credibility to the statement of all FOUR people involved, not just Misha. I think it's a significant difference that all four of them said it was out, don't you think?

Sunset of Age
03-01-2007, 11:56 PM
Oh, Rafa... so sorry to hear this result.
:sad: :sad: :sad:

Didn't get to see the match myself, only up to 5-5 in the first set, as I had to play myself :D (No, not tennis, I'm a Bridge Player! :p)

Congrats to Misha :worship: :worship: :worship: - I already said HE. IS. IN. THE. ZONE! lately before, but here it really, really shows!

Misha - do well now, the rest of this tournament!

~EMiLiTA~
03-01-2007, 11:59 PM
wow great win for Misha...he must really be in the zone...and we know what happens when he's in the zone. i was expecting him to win this and now i hope he makes the final

mallorn
03-02-2007, 12:01 AM
The funny thing about you is that you pretend to be objective, whereas your posts are some of the most biased rubbish out there...
:lol: The funny thing about you is how you keep making clueless assumptions about me.
Go read some spanish paper about where Rafa is eating his lunch tomorrow...
:yawn:

Sunset of Age
03-02-2007, 12:02 AM
wow great win for Misha...he must really be in the zone...and we know what happens when he's in the zone. i was expecting him to win this and now i hope he makes the final

I wouldn't even be surprised if he could kick Fed's ass as well! :devil: :angel:
And yeah, this is coming from a Fed fan, no less.
A Rafa fan as well, BTW. So sorry to know my Dream Final won't be happening again... :sad:

R.Federer
03-02-2007, 12:03 AM
So because it's a post match interview he would say the ball was out even though he thought it was in? :confused:
(The ball going out was against his interests, that's what I meant.)

I'm giving credibility to the statement of all FOUR people involved, not just Misha. I think it's a significant difference that all four of them said it was out, don't you think?


In the post match interview, to me it doesn't seem like it is against any of Mishas interests to say it is out. It is basically irrelevant, because he has won the match. It is not going to change any results.

My point is: you are giving credibility to Misha's statement only because it lines up with what rafa said and to bolster this argument that hawkeye was wrong. Ordinarily, that is to say if he had said he SAW it was in, all people would have dismissed his statement as coming from someone too far away to see clearly.

Now, suddenly it is being taken into account. Even though it should be dismissed, coming not only from so far away, but about a call that was SO Close, that even hawk eye had difficulty making an accurate judgement on it. Anyway, enough about this. The result stands. Hawk eye will live on. :)

Clara Bow
03-02-2007, 12:04 AM
It kind of sucks for Youzhny because tomorrow he has to play Robin in the first scheduled match of the day. (2 PM) Robin played the first match of today.

I don't understand why they couldn't schedule doubles to go on first and then have Misha/Robin play after? It would at least give Youzhny an extra hour or so of rest. I would just hate for fatigue to be a big factor tomorrow when he is playing a very dangerous Soderling. Hopefully he will continue his Energizer Bunny ways.

On the bright side- since I actually have to go into the office tomorrow after having two days of being free of the place- I will be able to at least watch the livestream and would not have been able to if it was later. No way that I can really see the Feds/Tommy match at all. :(

ys
03-02-2007, 12:05 AM
Well, Youzhnyi learnt from Blake learnt earlier. Rafa starts to have problems against quick one-handers..

ANd , yes, Rafa has arrived to the place where Chang was in mid-90s and Hewitt was since 2003. Solid Top 10, great player, former Slam winner.. But no longer a threat to the very top.. All players of this type, relying too much on their legs, have only 1-2 years to really blossom.

mallorn
03-02-2007, 12:07 AM
I love how the rafatards are always calling Ljubo a sore loser. Atleast the ivan doesnt freaking blame hawkeye for his loss.
Personally I've never called Ivan a sore loser and I don't blame Hawkeye for Rafa's loss. All I said was he lost the set point on a call that four people, including Misha, saw out. He still should have won the match despite the call if he had deserved it, if he had played better. He didn't, and he lost. :shrug:

gogogirl
03-02-2007, 12:08 AM
All,

I don't mean to complain but why wouldn't TTC show some of the matches from Dubai to fill the air? I would have loved to see several of them bad boys.

I noticed at the second to last Masters Series (I forget the name of it now) when Haas beat James that he was getting there. Haas is on fire. I mean, not allowing any break points in his last tourney win - and he's kicking up a storm in Dubai. Wowser!

Last year at the US Open - I knew and like Clara stated, Youzhny has real talent. He made it to the semis after all. And not too many people were giving him a shot to get there. And he beat James and Roddick at the Davis Cup last year didn't he? I love his style of play. At times though and IMO - whilst he hits his, for the most part, great backhand - he falls away from it a tad too much. When he is all the way on though - he hits it just right. I am happy for him this week, and for when he finally beat Lubi to take the title. I love his salute.

Rafa still has room for improvement and just like the opponent that beat him today. One of the main things that will continue to get Rafa over though is his heart and his concentration. Everyone makes more UEs than winners at times, and if most or all things aren't coming together for them in any given match - they might even make more DFs than usual. I say - give him time to improve on hards. And let's see if he can keep it up on clay. Although - I suspect that even on clay - some players will start to be more aggressive when playing him, and his scalp may be lifted in a tourney or two.

Rafa has a lot of points to defend on clay. Anyone figured out how many points he'll lose for this loss? I didn't read the entire thread if it has been posted. My bad.

Action Jackson
03-02-2007, 12:12 AM
Congratulations Colonel, he has the game and the tactics to make life for Nadal uncomfortable and it's great that he was able to execute the plan very well.

As for complaining about Hawkeye, hahahahahaha.

Clara Bow
03-02-2007, 12:13 AM
gogogirl, I think that Rafa is losing 225 points.

I don't mean to complain but why wouldn't TTC show some of the matches from Dubai to fill the air? I would have loved to see several of them bad boys.

I am hoping that TTC may surprise and show us the final like they did last year. Of course that was a Rofa match.... They acted quickly though and it is not like there will be time conflicts with live Las Vegas coverage. In the meantime, the Eurosport live streams have been pretty good.

They will still be doing the livestrem for the semis and finals even if the Eurosport tv network is not showing them, correct?

TMJordan
03-02-2007, 12:14 AM
:banana:

GlennMirnyi
03-02-2007, 12:14 AM
Well, Youzhnyi learnt from Blake learnt earlier. Rafa starts to have problems against quick one-handers..

ANd , yes, Rafa has arrived to the place where Chang was in mid-90s and Hewitt was since 2003. Solid Top 10, great player, former Slam winner.. But no longer a threat to the very top.. All players of this type, relying too much on their legs, have only 1-2 years to really blossom.

Very true, but that was predictable.

Personally I've never called Ivan a sore loser and I don't blame Hawkeye for Rafa's loss. All I said was he lost the set point on a call that four people, including Misha, saw out. He still should have won the match despite the call if he had deserved it, if he had played better. He didn't, and he lost. :shrug:

Yeah, because Youzhny, more than 20m from the ball, is in a great position.

Are you that biased or you're forcing this?

mallorn
03-02-2007, 12:19 AM
My point is: you are giving credibility to Misha's statement only because it lines up with what rafa said and to bolster this argument that hawkeye was wrong. Ordinarily, that is to say if he had said he SAW it was in, all people would have dismissed his statement as coming from someone too far away to see clearly.
Again, it doesn't only line up with what Rafa said, but also the linesperson and the umpire (the line was close to the ump). You seem to be implying that I would've given it credibility even if Rafa had been the only one who said it was out, which I wouldn't have.
The result stands. Hawk eye will live on. :)
Let's hope it'll lead as uncontroversial life as possible in future. ;)

gogogirl
03-02-2007, 12:23 AM
gogogirl, I think that Rafa is losing 225 points.



I am hoping that TTC may surprise and show us the final like they did last year. Of course that was a Rofa match.... They acted quickly though and it is not like there will be time conflicts with live Las Vegas coverage. In the meantime, the Eurosport live streams have been pretty good.

They will still be doing the livestrem for the semis and finals even if the Eurosport tv network is not showing them, correct?


All,

Thanks Clara. You are a gem and so full of tennis wisdom. I hope they do show the final. I have to check the schedule. I was wondering the same thing about the Doha WTA final.

Yesterday whilst watching Guga play Becker - my mouth was hanging open upon seeing how far back he was standing behind the baseline. On second serves though - he did sort of scoot up - but my God! Jimmy Conners has told A-Rod to move up some after commentators bamblasted him last year about the practice - and he has improved - but why do some players play so far back?

Does Rafa generally play far back? I can't remember. I know, I read up here that Youzy was pushing him back yesterday in Dubai.

mallorn
03-02-2007, 12:23 AM
Yeah, because Youzhny, more than 20m from the ball, is in a great position.

Are you that biased or you're forcing this?
:lol: Here we go again. :wavey:

cmurray
03-02-2007, 12:35 AM
:lol: Here we go again. :wavey:

Oh, Ania....why do you bother? Its an exercise in futility.

sawan66278
03-02-2007, 12:35 AM
I wish that everyone would stop with the "Rafa is a baseliner/moonballer, etc" who doesn't know how to play.

All I can say is: LOOK AT THE CAREER OF MATS WILANDER!!!

Here was a player with no real weapon (other than his mind and consistency). And yet, he won three of the four slams (and on all surfaces too) during an era of power players like Agassi, Lendl, and Becker. If Rafa can have a career like his, I will be content....

Compare Rafa and Mats at the same age. So what if Rafa falls to #3, #4, etc....Mats jumped around the rankings until 1988...when he ended the year #1. Rafa is where he needs to be at this time of his career.

Such myopia on these forums is disturbing...

GlennMirnyi
03-02-2007, 12:38 AM
Oh, Ania....why do you bother? Its an exercise in futility.

So you agree that Nadal is more precise than the Hawkeye system? :lol:

I wish that everyone would stop with the "Rafa is a baseliner/moonballer, etc" who doesn't know how to play.

All I can say is: LOOK AT THE CAREER OF MATS WILANDER!!!

Here was a player with no real weapon (other than his mind and consistency). And yet, he won three of the four slams (and on all surfaces too) during an era of power players like Agassi, Lendl, and Becker. If Rafa can have a career like his, I will be content....

Compare Rafa and Mats at the same age. So what if Rafa falls to #3, #4, etc....Mats jumped around the rankings until 1988...when he ended the year #1. Rafa is where he needs to be at this time of his career.

Such myopia on these forums is disturbing...

Don't compare guys from different eras, you can't prove any point.

shotgun
03-02-2007, 12:39 AM
Soderling deserves a final after all this time, I hope he beats Youzhny tomorrow.

Kom Igen Tibro! :sport:

mallorn
03-02-2007, 12:39 AM
Oh, Ania....why do you bother? Its an exercise in futility.
I'm not going to bother anymore. :o

I'm going to sleep instead. :)

Merton
03-02-2007, 12:43 AM
Congrats to Youzhny, he played even better that at the US Open or the AO match against Nadal. He clearly enjoys career-high form at the moment.

Nadal doesn't lose to chumps at hardcourts, he will never dominate with his style of play so the realistic goal is to develop his game in such a way as to occasionaly win against the big hitters. A fact that was lost during the overhype of 2005 was that he never had a hardcourt suited, attacking style to begin with, he just applied claycourt tennis on hardcourts.

rafagirlno1
03-02-2007, 12:58 AM
well i saw the entire match and must say the better player on THE DAY won. the first set very close and if only that ball was out then u never know what would have happen . in the second set rafa lost some confidence and never played the way he played the first set and misha was on fire .i just hope the clay season begins as soon as posible ;)
btw did anyone see rafa voleying . at the last game there was one over hed smash and he connected it beutifuly . i think if rafa improves his serve he could try serve and volying once in a while to win cheap points .

Scotso
03-02-2007, 01:09 AM
Misha is on fire :D

jcempire
03-02-2007, 01:14 AM
What the shit is that Nadal is out/

No one are going to stop Roger Fed.

rafagirlno1
03-02-2007, 01:23 AM
i hve read many of the posts on this thread and people r overreacting for the call at the end of set 1 . it was very close and even halk eye didn't show clearly as to how much in or out it was . it looked to be out in my eyes though . rafa at the heat of the momnet get angry and argued with the umpire , he is a gentleman and always respects his opponent at the end of the day .
he is a good player on hard courts but hard hitters always trouble him and dont overeact and say this is the end of nadal or something . he will be the same force he was in 2006 , in fact with a better serve :angel:

RickDaStick
03-02-2007, 01:25 AM
i hve read many of the posts on this thread and people r overreacting for the call at the end of set 1 . it was very close and even halk eye didn't show clearly as to how much in or out it was . it looked to be out in my eyes though . rafa at the heat of the momnet get angry and argued with the umpire , he is a gentleman and always respects his opponent at the end of the day .
he is a good player on hard courts but hard hitters always trouble him and dont overeact and say this is the end of nadal or something . he will be the same force he was in 2006 , in fact with a better serve :angel:

shut the hell up you clown:wavey:

sawan66278
03-02-2007, 01:28 AM
Comparing careers of players from different eras is valid IF the players' careers in question are compared to players of THEIR OWN ERAS. Case closed. Please brush up on logic as it pertains to deductive reasoning. Here's a nice link, Mr. Mirnyi, to get you started:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning

rafagirlno1
03-02-2007, 01:33 AM
shut the hell up you clown:wavey:

how wht a consturctive statement . he has a better serve than last year this time so wht's so clown in tht :confused:
and btw wht has ivan done this year . oh yaah i remember he got his ass kicked in the first round of australian open :haha:

RickDaStick
03-02-2007, 01:36 AM
how wht a consturctive statement . he has a better serve than last year this time so wht's so clown in tht :confused:
and btw wht has ivan done this year . oh yaah i remember he got his ass kicked in the first round of australian open :haha:

Nadals serve is not better and ivan has 3 finals already what about Nadal. Im sure you will say but ivans came in mickey mouse tournaments, maybe so but nadal has also played 3 MM tournaments and hasnt even reached the final once.

rafagirlno1
03-02-2007, 01:41 AM
Nadals serve is not better and ivan has 3 finals already what about Nadal. Im sure you will say but ivans came in mickey mouse tournaments, maybe so but nadal has also played 3 MM tournaments and hasnt even reached the final once.

no i didn't want to say anything like tht , but the fact is u called me a clown or else i wouldn't hve made the comment on ivan . rafa is still the world number two and reaches the quarters of everytournament he enters . i am happy with tht until the clay season begins :devil: