Potito Starace def Gaston Gaudio 6:4 6:3 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Potito Starace def Gaston Gaudio 6:4 6:3

Andre♥
02-13-2007, 12:19 AM
When four hours after the game is over and there is no thread telling that a challanger player just beated Gaudio on clay, that means he must be finished.

Btw will Gaudio win a match this season?

Can he beat Spadea's record?

scarecrows
02-13-2007, 12:20 AM
Starace on clay aint a challenger player :rocker2: go Poto

scoobs
02-13-2007, 12:21 AM
Gaston Gaudio is becoming the tennis equivalent of an alcoholic who's such a mess they're past the point of caring what people think. He's stumbling for tournament to tournament like Sue Ellen Ewing with a tennis racquet, getting a beating, shrugging and stumbling on to the next tournament.

You almost curl your lip in disgust at each new loss, now

3 years ago he was French Open champion.

adee-gee
02-13-2007, 12:23 AM
Gaston Gaudio is becoming the tennis equivalent of an alcoholic who's such a mess they're past the point of caring what people think.
:lol: what a fabulous way of putting it :worship:

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 12:23 AM
A Gaudio loss is surprising?

TMJordan
02-13-2007, 12:26 AM
This was not a big surprise 50/50 match imo, I just wanted to see Gaston win, especially in this type of match.

SaltoKlose
02-13-2007, 12:26 AM
2005, Gaudio was challenging Nadal on clay a bit... now he's gooooonnnneeee....

ChinoRios4Ever
02-13-2007, 12:26 AM
poor Gato :help:

zicofirol
02-13-2007, 12:50 AM
I was looking for a thread also, I think this should be his last year, shoudl go on collecting his cool 15 grand from each GS, play in some masters(if he can get in,lol) and just retire, after he won RG he knows he will never win it again and the motivation is just not there, I am not sure who is more pathetic him or massu?

NicoFan
02-13-2007, 12:59 AM
Gaston... :hug:

Someone please help Gaston... :help:

casabe
02-13-2007, 01:26 AM
My head says he is over...My heart wants him back

kinglear
02-13-2007, 01:29 AM
Can he beat Spadea's record?


Oh no! now we're comparing Gaudio to Spadea? :mad: uh-oh

EasternWind
02-13-2007, 01:31 AM
I know, it's hard to imagine that three years later, a former Roland Garros champ would be like this.
Like others have said, I don't think he'll ever come back. But I really liked Gaudio...:sad:

Deboogle!.
02-13-2007, 01:38 AM
Gaston... :hug:

Someone please help Gaston... :help:I think he's at the point where he needs to decide if he wants to help himself. :awww:

not a surprising result in the least, but that doesn't make it any less sad.

kinglear
02-13-2007, 01:41 AM
:lol: what a fabulous way of putting it :worship:


Agreed. That was quite a witty analogy Scoob. ;) By the way, Adee, is that Gaudio in your avatar?
I think what Gaudio needs is a coach.

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 01:44 AM
Agreed. That was quite a witty analogy Scoob. ;) By the way, Adee, is that Gaudio in your avatar?
I think what Gaudio needs is a coach.

Instant expert are we? Gaudio has a coach already.

It's Berdych in his avatar.

Snowwy
02-13-2007, 01:59 AM
Can he beat Spadea's record?

Hes got a ways to go. Hes only at 6

Vina del Mar RR Berlocq, Carlos (ARG) 127 2-6 2-6
Aussie Open R128 Muller, Gilles (LUX) 116 0-6 6-4 2-6 3-6
Auckland R32 Ferrer, David (ESP) 16 7-5 3-6 2-6
Lyon R32 Greul, Simon (GER) 79 0-6 2-6
Madrid R64 Massu, Nicolas (CHI) 45 6-4 3-6 RET
US Open R32 Gicquel, Marc (FRA) 79 0-6 6-4 6-4 1-6 6-7(3)

Surprisingly, to find the last time he beat a top 50 player you have to go back to last years French Open.

Denaon
02-13-2007, 02:07 AM
Gaston :sad:

njnetswill
02-13-2007, 02:20 AM
The 2004 RG final was cursed. Coria and Gaudio are :retard:

kinglear
02-13-2007, 03:04 AM
Instant expert are we? Gaudio has a coach already.

It's Berdych in his avatar.

A good coach. ;) Then again I'm not positive on that. If he does have a coach then that sucks. By the way, I do fancy myself informed on tennis. :o ;)

*Viva Chile*
02-13-2007, 03:12 AM
Gaudio must retire if he didn't want to play again :o He shows zero interest of his tennis when press ask him, he says he actually hates tennis, so why is he playing yet? He's wasting his time, go and look for another interest Gato...

kinglear
02-13-2007, 03:29 AM
Gaudio must retire if he didn't want to play again :o He shows zero interest of his tennis when press ask him, he says he actually hates tennis, so why is he playing yet? He's wasting his time, go and look for another interest Gato...


Like somebody else said, for the money. ;)

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 04:17 AM
A good coach. ;) Then again I'm not positive on that. If he does have a coach then that sucks. By the way, I do fancy myself informed on tennis. :o ;)

What the coach can't go out and make him play tennis, he has to want to do that himself.

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 04:17 AM
Gaudio must retire if he didn't want to play again :o He shows zero interest of his tennis when press ask him, he says he actually hates tennis, so why is he playing yet? He's wasting his time, go and look for another interest Gato...

He always been like that, then again tennis hasn't always been his first love.

Caralimon
02-13-2007, 04:42 AM
He always been like that, then again tennis hasn't always been his first love.

Despite what many think, Gaudio is desperate to find his way back on his career. He might retire at the end of the season if things don't turn up the way he'd want, but he definetely has the desire and is working on that. I heard that by myself, and it's not like Gaston isn't sincere in front of the cameras.

And yes, he is playing just because he needs first round paychecks.

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 04:47 AM
Despite what many think, Gaudio is desperate to find his way back on his career. He might retire at the end of the season if things don't turn up the way he'd want, but he definetely has the desire and is working on that. I heard that by myself, and it's not like Gaston isn't sincere in front of the cameras.

And yes, he is playing just because he needs first round paychecks.

Gaston always looks disinterested even when he is winning, that is him. Of course he doesn't want to go around embarrassing himself, if Spadea can turn it around, there is no reason he can't.

Last time he was in poor form was in 2004 and look what happened. I don't expect that level to happen again, you never know he might have to go down to the challengers soon to gain some confidence.

Yes, he lacks money as well.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 05:14 AM
There are players who need more than their "tennis life" to be happy. The tour can be very demanding, and its about finding the right balance to succeed professionally and enjoy your personal life.

And if you add to that a player having a very "down to earth" scale of priorities, then you can get the wrong impression about his interest regarding tennis.

R.Federer
02-13-2007, 05:15 AM
Everyone's favourite 'tato is back.

tangerine_dream
02-13-2007, 05:15 AM
The 2004 RG final was cursed. Coria and Gaudio are :retard:
Sometimes I wonder about that. Coria, Gaudio, Ferrero, Moya, et al. should all be cleaning up where Nadal isn't playing but they can't even do that. If these guys aren't going to wake up from their slumber then I'd like to know when the next great claycourt player will show up.

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 05:16 AM
One question. I wonder what sort of reaction he will get from the crowd in Buenos Aires? If he starts losing, then I can see them giving him a hard time.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 05:20 AM
One question. I wonder what sort of reaction he will get from the crowd in Buenos Aires? If he starts losing, then I can see them giving him a hard time.

No, as long as he doesn't play the Davis Cup.

I think if he keeps losing, he will have the support of the fans. The same with Coria and Zabaleta.

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 05:23 AM
No, as long as he doesn't play the Davis Cup.

I think if he keeps losing, he will have the support of the fans. The same with Coria and Zabaleta.

As much as he would like to, I think Davis Cup is over for him. It's funny though he was pissed on after Malaga, loved after RG, now who knows.

Good that Zabaleta got a WC.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 05:33 AM
As much as he would like to, I think Davis Cup is over for him. It's funny though he was pissed on after Malaga, loved after RG, now who knows.

Good that Zabaleta got a WC.

Yes, I remember the reaction of the people and it was pathetic. But that happened because the fans had the feeling Gaudio wasn't giving everything to win. People here can forgive lack of talent but not lack of effort.

Right now, I don't see the fans giving a hard time to Gaudio, but all the way around.

Yes, Zabaleta was a good choice. It seems the third is going to fan favorite Guga Kuerten.

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 05:35 AM
Yes, I remember the reaction of the people and it was pathetic. But that happened because the fans had the feeling Gaudio wasn't giving everything to win. People here can forgive lack of talent but not lack of effort.

Right now, I don't see the fans giving a hard time to Gaudio, but all the way around.

Yes, Zabaleta was a good choice. It seems the third is going to fan favorite Guga Kuerten.

You can tell me first hand as to how they will react to him.

The worst thing about this run of form was he lost to Berlocq 2 and 2, that isn't a good sign.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 05:47 AM
You can tell me first hand as to how they will react to him.

Sure, and my report will have good basis, since we will be able to watch Gaudio at least twice, thank to the marvelous RR system.

The worst thing about this run of form was he lost to Berlocq 2 and 2, that isn't a good sign.

Who knows? maybe he needs to get to the bottom to jump back.

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 05:53 AM
Sure, and my report will have good basis, since we will be able to watch Gaudio at least twice, thank to the marvelous RR system.

Who knows? maybe he needs to get to the bottom to jump back.

I will PM you about some things later concerning the event.

Well, they say you have to hit the absolute bottom before being able to turn around.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 05:58 AM
I will PM you about some things later concerning the event.

Well, they say you have to hit the absolute bottom before being able to turn around.

ok.

well, there are some examples of that. Just by looking at my username you know what comebacks are about.

Sommarsverige
02-13-2007, 08:02 AM
Gaston :sad: :sad:

kindablue
02-13-2007, 08:13 AM
Pobre Gato! What a waste of talent!

stebs
02-13-2007, 08:13 AM
Painful to see such a good player become what Gaston has become.

Voo de Mar
02-13-2007, 08:17 AM
El Gato is finished :(

Minotaur
02-13-2007, 08:19 AM
I guess the main problem is his attitude... He performs less but considers himself still more

jazar
02-13-2007, 08:20 AM
not only has gaudio lost the ability to play on hard courts (although that was questionable to start with) he is now loisng the ability to play on clay. how tragic

Blue Heart24
02-13-2007, 08:41 AM
:haha: :haha: :haha:

you should retire Gaudio!
Everybody can beat you! :haha:

mtw
02-13-2007, 09:50 AM
3 years ago he was French Open champion.


It was by accident a little. But then he played well, maybe a little bit worse as G. Coria but won. He had luck. He is about 29 now. I think, that he is doing now his best, but there are many younger tennisplayer.
Besides he is nice player and manchmal very funny.

mtw
02-13-2007, 09:53 AM
not only has gaudio lost the ability to play on hard courts (although that was questionable to start with) he is now loisng the ability to play on clay. how tragic

Potito Starace is quite good player. What do you want? If Gaudio would lose with Mariusz Pudzianowski on clay, then you could despair.

Deivid23
02-13-2007, 09:57 AM
If these guys aren't going to wake up from their slumber then I'd like to know when the next great claycourt player will show up.

Answer you´re looking for is MUCHO

joeb_uk
02-13-2007, 11:10 AM
Gaston Gaudio is becoming the tennis equivalent of an alcoholic who's such a mess they're past the point of caring what people think. He's stumbling for tournament to tournament like Sue Ellen Ewing with a tennis racquet, getting a beating, shrugging and stumbling on to the next tournament.

You almost curl your lip in disgust at each new loss, now

3 years ago he was French Open champion.


LOL! Well put, the guy is pretty boring to watch now and it's painful too :sad:

:haha:

All_Slam_Andre
02-13-2007, 11:33 AM
Hes got a ways to go. Hes only at 6

Vina del Mar RR Berlocq, Carlos (ARG) 127 2-6 2-6
Aussie Open R128 Muller, Gilles (LUX) 116 0-6 6-4 2-6 3-6
Auckland R32 Ferrer, David (ESP) 16 7-5 3-6 2-6
Lyon R32 Greul, Simon (GER) 79 0-6 2-6
Madrid R64 Massu, Nicolas (CHI) 45 6-4 3-6 RET
US Open R32 Gicquel, Marc (FRA) 79 0-6 6-4 6-4 1-6 6-7(3)

Surprisingly, to find the last time he beat a top 50 player you have to go back to last years French Open.

Incidently, what number of consecutive first round defeats did Spadea reach?

Andre♥
02-13-2007, 11:45 AM
Incidently, what number of consecutive first round defeats did Spadea reach?

21

scarecrows
02-13-2007, 11:48 AM
21

that will take some beating

Gaudio is gonna surely win one match in these clay tournaments playing with a WC or smth

All_Slam_Andre
02-13-2007, 12:00 PM
21

Thanks for that. :worship: Spadea's place in the record books should be safe.

Champion number 1
02-13-2007, 12:04 PM
Dont really care about Gaston... instead its a good win for Starace to start off his clay court season.

Champion number 1
02-13-2007, 12:05 PM
Yeah the funny thing about Spadea is he lost 21 in a row

turned up at Wimbledon, got Rusedski in the first round, no one gave him a chance to win it and he ended up beating Rusedski on grass despite losing 21 in a row :)

Dougie
02-13-2007, 12:14 PM
21

:haha: Shouldn´t laugh at the poor guy, but than kind of performance takes effort! At least he´s doing better now.:worship:

virex
02-13-2007, 12:40 PM
gaston never wanted to win yesterday
even the brazilian crowd was trying to suport him, but his head was nowhere to be found..
typical gaudio

kinglear
02-13-2007, 01:13 PM
It was by accident a little. But then he played well, maybe a little bit worse as G. Coria but won. He had luck. He is about 29 now. I think, that he is doing now his best, but there are many younger tennisplayer.
Besides he is nice player and manchmal very funny.

Yeah, in a way like Safin. Players with a good sense of humor like Safin and Gaudio make the game fun and interesting. But I'd rather have Gaudio win more matches, so he can raise his ranking. I'd say Slams are out of the question, but never say never. But if Andy Roddick can't even win another Slam after four chances because of Federer, I don't see much luck for Gaudio. But again, the seemingly impossible can come true. ;)

oscar_2424
02-13-2007, 01:18 PM
I hope he finds his good form back.

Galathea
02-13-2007, 02:11 PM
Yes, I remember the reaction of the people and it was pathetic. But that happened because the fans had the feeling Gaudio wasn't giving everything to win. People here can forgive lack of talent but not lack of effort.

Right now, I don't see the fans giving a hard time to Gaudio, but all the way around.

Yes, Zabaleta was a good choice. It seems the third is going to fan favorite Guga Kuerten.

Well, the people was way to hard with him, but the fans were not wrong about what happened in Malaga, sorry. I remember that day like today, specially after Calleri ddoing what he did.
Argie people in tennis is not going to get pissed off because someone loses. But that depends how the player lost: See Acasuso the past year or Nalbo's debut against Safin in SF (after winning the doubles in that epic Match). Or if someone loses playing horrible but still fighthing. The people's reaction was way to hard, but understandable: It's not that he loses because he goes out of the match. ( Hey, Nalbo's fan here... tell me about someone going on and off from matches ;) ) Is not that he gets distracted or goes to La-la land for moments. That's not Gaudio's problem (like with Safin or Nalbo)
No, he loses two balls and he starts to scream to himself (literally screaming: you can heard him more clear than Hass): "I'm a loser, I have no shame, I'm a disaster!" Suddenly if he wins two balls, he's confident again and everything is peachy, to go down again the minute loses a point. And that's something the major part of the argentine people don't tolerate when someone is playing for the country. In his career? probably all the crow was going to cheer for him and trying to show affect. But not for DC matches. Never for DC.

Maybe RR format could be good for him. knowing that he can lose one match and have chances. (Pity I'm not going to be here for the Telmex Cup) and playing here, with a very supporting crow could help him.
Gaston is a great guy and such a talent (technically impecable) but he lacks of mental strength in the worst possible way. It's very difficult to solution that.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 02:20 PM
No, he loses two balls and he starts to scream to himself: I'm a loser, I have no shame, I'm a disaster! Suddenly if he wins two balls, he's confident again and everything is peachy, to go down again the minute loses a point. And that's something the major part of the argentine people don't tolerate.

I don't agree. In my opinion what people complained about after that Davis Cup was Gaudio's apparent lack of effort (lack of "garra"). I say apparent, because its obvious his terrible level of play that day was due to his mental issues.

jayjay
02-13-2007, 02:28 PM
I don't agree. In my opinion what people complained about after that Davis Cup was Gaudio's apparent lack of effort (lack of "garra"). I say apparent, because its obvious his terrible level of play that day was due to his mental issues.

To some who were in the stadium the apparent lack of effort was very real. I don't wish to revisit Gaudio:Malaga again, as we did it once before, and I'm sure many other times on this board amongst others.

But Gaudio in my opinion (I was there all 3 days) showed no heart or fight for the contest. It was quite pathetic.

His poor play can be excused, the excuses for his inability to show some heart? I have little time for.

Galathea
02-13-2007, 02:29 PM
I don't agree. In my opinion what people complained about after that Davis Cup was Gaudio's apparent lack of effort (lack of "garra"). I say apparent, because its obvious his terrible level of play that day was due to his mental issues.
Sorry if I expressed myself wrong. Lack of "Garra" is Gaudio's typical problem too, because is all connected. You can't say Safin or Nalbo doesn't have guts, balls or "garra". Gaudio doesn't have them the major part of the time. And that's a mental issue, totally related to what I described.
That's why he blews matches. There are plenty example of players having horrible days (at the DC we had Nalbo/Calleri in the doubles in Moscow), but they keep trying. Gaudio just gives up and is to bussy insulting himself to try. That's what argie people hates when someone plays for the country.

Galathea
02-13-2007, 02:32 PM
To some who were in the stadium the apparent lack of effort was very real. I don't wish to revisit Gaudio:Malaga again, as we did it once before, and I'm sure many other times on this board amongst others.

But Gaudio in my opinion (I was there all 3 days) showed no heart or fight for the contest. It was quite pathetic.

His poor play can be excused, the excuses for his inability to show some heart? I have little time for.

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2:
You explained better. ;)
Gaudio's attitude (probably not because he wants to act like that, but because he can't do anything different. I give that.) was one of the reason why Nalbandian's Master had more repercution and was more celebrated by the people than Gaudio's RG.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 02:34 PM
To some who were in the stadium the apparent lack of effort was very real. I don't wish to revisit Gaudio:Malaga again, as we did it once before, and I'm sure many other times on this board amongst others.

But Gaudio in my opinion (I was there all 3 days) showed no heart or fight for the contest. It was quite pathetic.

His poor play can be excused, the excuses for his inability to show some heart? I have little time for.

I don't agree, but as you said, we already discussed this.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 02:37 PM
:clap2: :clap2: :clap2:
You explained better. ;)
Gaudio's attitude (not because he wants to act like that, but because he can't do anything different) was one of the reason why Nalbandian's Master had more repercution and celebrated by the people than Gaudio's RG.

what? :confused:

I didn't get that impression at all.

But if that did happen, maybe it had to do with the fact that Nalbandian beated Roger Federer in the final and Gaudio won against a player who was playing better and cramped.

jayjay
02-13-2007, 02:41 PM
Also agree with Galathea that I don't think for one second that Gaudio likes to have this type of attitude where he is incapable and/or unwilling to fight, but this is the way he is.

And it's ok on the tour as he only represents himself, but when you see this kind of attitude come out in its worst and limp form in the Davis Cup cauldron (and it was magnified by the contrast to what Calleri had produced just before) it is harder to digest.

Unfortunately he is not a player who can often relish a fight (be that against an opponent or himself), and in Davis Cup, to fight is often the first quality needed to succeed.

Galathea
02-13-2007, 02:46 PM
what? :confused:

I didn't get that impression at all.

But if that did happen, maybe it had to do with the fact that Nalbandian beated Roger Federer in the final and Gaudio won against a player who was playing better and cramped.

yeah, I think it was pretty clear.
Also, besides what you pointed that I agree was a part too, Argentina, the minute Coria won his SF, already knew that is was going to have a RG champion, so it was expected. In Shangai, an argie "shocked" the world beating the ATP 1. In RG, it was the emotion of having 3 players playing SF and after that 2 playing the final.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 02:47 PM
Also agree with Galathea that I don't think for one second that Gaudio likes to have this type of attitude where he is incapable and/or unwilling to fight, but this is the way he is.

well thats the key... if someone is uncapable to fight because of mental issues, then we can't talk about lack of garra. Now if he is unwilling, thats different.

I think Gaudio in Malaga was willing as in any other Davis Cup tie.

Unfortunately he is not a player who can often relish a fight (be that against an opponent or himself), and in Davis Cup, to fight is often the first quality needed to succeed.

He has shown many times he is a great Davis Cup player while playing at home.

mtw
02-13-2007, 02:50 PM
Also agree with Galathea that I don't think for one second that Gaudio likes to have this type of attitude where he is incapable and/or unwilling to fight, but this is the way he is.

And it's ok on the tour as he only represents himself, but when you see this kind of attitude come out in its worst and limp form in the Davis Cup cauldron (and it was magnified by the contrast to what Calleri had produced just before) it is harder to digest.

Unfortunately he is not a player who can often relish a fight (be that against an opponent or himself), and in Davis Cup, to fight is often the first quality needed to succeed.

Don't kill him. He is 29. He has willing to fight but he has no power anymore to make it. You know. It is age. And, you - dear Argentianian nation - are not kind - hearted for your tennisplayers. This is terrible. I don't understand it.

Galathea
02-13-2007, 02:55 PM
well thats the key... if someone is uncapable to fight because of mental issues, then we can't talk about lack of garra. Now if he is unwilling, thats different.

I think Gaudio in Malaga was willing as in any other Davis Cup tie. .
Garra is a mental state. Gaudio lacks of it.
I think we can discuss this the whole day, we just have different POV of this ;)

.He has shown many times he is a great Davis Cup player while playing at home.
Mmmm.... yes..... winning since the beggining and/or with the crow screaming like crazy with no problems? That's not a grat DC player. Great DC player is one that goes there and wins whatever it takes, wherever he is and fight until the end because a team depends on him-

And I think he suffers a lot with this and he's such a really great guy, BUT, there's something basic: go and screw your career, but if you can't fight? Don't play DC and blew your country chances. He even commented how nice would be play against Australia in Bs As the past year to gain more confidence :eek: That's my bigger problem with Gaudio.

Julio1974
02-13-2007, 02:58 PM
To some who were in the stadium the apparent lack of effort was very real. I don't wish to revisit Gaudio:Malaga again, as we did it once before, and I'm sure many other times on this board amongst others.

But Gaudio in my opinion (I was there all 3 days) showed no heart or fight for the contest. It was quite pathetic.

His poor play can be excused, the excuses for his inability to show some heart? I have little time for.

Your opinion is a bit biased...

I also like Coria a lot (much more than Gaudio) but it should be remembered that both Nalbandian and Coria were injured and did not go to Spain and Gaudio -even though he was playing horrible at that time- said yes and played. He did not play in Malaga worse than he was playing on the tour at that moment. He did the best he could and he was unfairly destroyed by the Argentine media. Zabaleta choked the first match with Moya and nobody said anything.

As for his DC record, remember he played amazingly well at home.

Galathea
02-13-2007, 02:59 PM
Don't kill him. He is 29. He has willing to fight but he has no power anymore to make it. You know. It is age. And, you - dear Argentianian nation - are not kind - hearted for your tennisplayers. This is terrible. I don't understand it.

He is 29 NOW, even when he was not like this, his mental problems existed. He was always like that, more notorious now because of his age, but that tendence was there... And in Malaga he was in his best age.
We support our players. And I'm sure Gaston was going to be supported a lot when he plays the Telmex. BUT, playing for ARgentina? Lack of fight, lack of balls, whatever? Is not tolerated. Win or lose. Go and fight. If you can't? Stay at home.

Julio1974
02-13-2007, 03:04 PM
Garra is a mental state. Gaudio lacks of it.
I think we can discuss this the whole day, we just have different POV of this ;)

.
Mmmm.... yes..... winning since the beggining and/or with the crow screaming like crazy with no problems? That's not a grat DC player. Great DC player is one that goes there and wins whatever it takes, wherever he is and fight until the end because a team depends on him-

And I think he suffers a lot with this and he's such a really great guy, BUT, there's something basic: go and screw your career, but if you can't fight? Don't play DC and blew your country chances. He even commented how nice would be play against Australia in Bs As the past year to gain more confidence :eek: That's my bigger problem with Gaudio.

I don't agree. Winning at home can be as difficult for some players as winning abroad. See the case of Cañas who plays horrible in front of the Aregntine public.

I'm not implying Gaudio is a great DC player as Nalbandian but he is not as bad as some people tend to think.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 03:05 PM
Mmmm.... yes..... winning since the beggining and/or with the crow screaming like crazy with no problems? That's not a grat DC player. Great DC player is one that goes there and wins whatever it takes, wherever he is and fight until the end because a team depends on him.

If having a record of 13-3 with victories against the likes of Davydenko, Ljubicic, Kafelnikov, Schuettler, Mirnyi doesn't make you a great Davis Cup player, then I don't know...

And I think he suffers a lot with this and he's such a really great guy, BUT, there's something basic: go and screw your career, but if you can't fight? Don't play DC and blew your country chances.

Blow Argentina's chances?

we get to that semifinal thanks to Gaudio in the first place.

musefanatic
02-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Well done Potito although Gaston isn't the player now that he used to be

mtw
02-13-2007, 03:09 PM
He is 29 NOW, even when he was not like this, his mental problems existed. He was always like that, more notorious now because of his age, but that tendence was there... And in Malaga he was in his best age.
We support our players. And I'm sure Gaston was going to be supported a lot when he plays the Telmex. BUT, playing for ARgentina? Lack of fight, lack of balls, whatever? Is not tolerated. Win or lose. Go and fight. If you can't? Stay at home.

I see it. This support is always like a big kick in a...

SwiSha
02-13-2007, 03:10 PM
When four hours after the game is over and there is no thread telling that a challanger player just beated Gaudio on clay, that means he must be finished.

Btw will Gaudio win a match this season?

Can he beat Spadea's record?

Starace a challenger player on clay??? :cuckoo:

mtw
02-13-2007, 03:13 PM
[QUOTE=Julio1974;4862976]Your opinion is a bit biased...

I also like Coria a lot (much more than Gaudio) but it should be remembered that both Nalbandian and Coria were injured /QUOTE]

Yes. You are right in this case. And if they are fit and healthy, then they will play very well.

Preston
02-13-2007, 03:18 PM
Looking at his Slam results he seems like a very lucky one hit wonder who happened to win the French. I'm mean besides that victory a couple years ago, he has NOT EVER been beyond the 4th round in ANY Slam, including other French Opens.


GRAND SLAM SINGLE RESULTS
Year AUS. FRENCH WIMB. U.S.OPEN
2007 1st - - -
2006 3rd 4th 2nd -
2005 3rd 4th - 1st
2004 2nd W - 2nd
2003 2nd 3rd 1st 1st
2002 3rd 4th 2nd 3rd
2001 1st 1st 1st 1st
2000 1st 2nd 1st 1st
1999 - 3rd 1st 1st

jayjay
02-13-2007, 03:23 PM
[QUOTE=WillyCañas;4862939]well thats the key... if someone is uncapable to fight because of mental issues, then we can't talk about lack of garra. Now if he is unwilling, thats different.

I think Gaudio in Malaga was willing as in any other Davis Cup tie.

Fair point, I used the possibility of "incapable" to be somewhat diplomatic. The truth is in my view, when the going gets tough, Gato certainly does not get going. His lack of desire for the fight is a criticism of him rather than an incurable disease. We have seen him fight often when the going is good. It's the difficult moments that we see what someone is truly capable of.

He has shown many times he is a great Davis Cup player while playing at home.

Pretty much all of this current generation have exceptional home records. We're untouchable at home and our players ride the crest of a wave very well. Away from home, you have to find something a little extra inside yourself.

jayjay
02-13-2007, 03:25 PM
Don't kill him. He is 29. He has willing to fight but he has no power anymore to make it. You know. It is age. And, you - dear Argentianian nation - are not kind - hearted for your tennisplayers. This is terrible. I don't understand it.

There are people here trying to have a serious conversation. Please shut up. :wavey:

jayjay
02-13-2007, 03:26 PM
[QUOTE=Julio1974;4862976]Your opinion is a bit biased...

How so? My opinion is based on what I saw, no more or less.

He did the best he could and he was unfairly destroyed by the Argentine media.

I don't agree with large parts of what the media said about him.

mtw
02-13-2007, 03:29 PM
There are people here trying to have a serious conversation. Please shut up. :wavey:
But it is really funny and stupid and especially your opinions, as always.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 03:29 PM
Pretty much all of this current generation have exceptional home records. We're untouchable at home and our players ride the crest of a wave very well. Away from home, you have to find something a little extra inside yourself.

None of the players of the current generation (outside Nalbandian) showed Gaudio's level of play in Davis Cup.

jayjay
02-13-2007, 03:30 PM
None of the players of the current generation (outside Nalbandian) showed Gaudio's level of play in Davis Cup.

What do you mean by "level of play", results or performance?

Hendu
02-13-2007, 03:32 PM
What do you mean by "level of play", results or performance?

both.

Denaon
02-13-2007, 03:33 PM
None of the players of the current generation (outside Nalbandian) showed Gaudio's level of play in Davis Cup.

I absolutely agree with this :yeah:

jayjay
02-13-2007, 03:45 PM
both.

Chucho, Calleri, Canas, Coria, Nalbandian, Puerta and Zabaleta are all unbeaten at home like Gaudio in Singles. Most have played less matches than Gaudio, only Nalbandian has played more. We would expect would we not in future years for Chucho and Del Potro to rack up continued home wins, but being good at home alone does not make you a great DC player, otherwise we have multiple great DC players and no DC, which doesn't add up? :lol:

Chela has lost one at home. And Squillari has lost two having played a similiar amount of times at home to Gato.

So as I said, for Gaudio to have an impressive home record is no surprise or anything unique with our players in recent years. Credit to him for winning, but not immunity over anything, surely?

As far as performance, that's subjective. I wouldn't say Gaudio has shown anymore an outstanding level at home as Chucho did for example v Sweden and Hewitt.

Anyway we are going off track here, our home success is not really a measure for being a great DC player. We only have one great DC player at the moment, it's David Nalbandian. I fully expect JMDP to join him.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 04:03 PM
Chucho, Calleri, Canas, Coria, Nalbandian, Puerta and Zabaleta are all unbeaten at home like Gaudio in Singles. Most have played less matches than Gaudio, only Nalbandian has played more. We would expect would we not in future years for Chucho and Del Potro to rack up continued home wins, but being good at home alone does not make you a great DC player, otherwise we have multiple great DC players and no DC, which doesn't add up? :lol:

Chela has lost one at home. And Squillari has lost two having played a similiar amount of times at home to Gato.

So as I said, for Gaudio to have an impressive home record is no surprise or anything unique with our players in recent years. Credit to him for winning, but not immunity over anything, surely?

oh come on jayjay...

don't make me go into the rivals they faced and in what Davis Cup stances those matches were.

Cañas has a history of being a not so good DC player while Zabaleta is simply terrible.

Calleri's only notable DC win in singles was in Malaga. Puerta never won a singles match in World Group.

Coria's and Chucho's DC records are still far away from Gaudio's in terms of quantity and/or quality.

I'm sorry but its as clear as water that Gaudio has been the 2nd best DC player (Nalbandian being the best).

As far as performance, that's subjective. I wouldn't say Gaudio has shown anymore an outstanding level at home as Chucho did for example v Sweden and Hewitt.

I would. But I think Chucho could get a record similar to Gaudio, given how "copero" he has shown to be.

Anyway we are going off track here, our home success is not really a measure for being a great DC player. We only have one great DC player at the moment, it's David Nalbandian. I fully expect JMDP to join him.

Playing at home is difficult for many players. If Gaudio was in a good level of play, I wouldn't hesitate to chose him for a home tie.

jayjay
02-13-2007, 04:21 PM
[QUOTE=WillyCañas;4863357]oh come on jayjay...

don't make me go into the rivals they faced and in what Davis Cup stances those matches were.

Not at all, I'm not claiming those players faced greats while Gaudio faced nobodies. I'm saying it's just a matter of time and health that guys like Chucho and Del Potro will have comparable home records to Gaudio, but that alone does not make them great DC players.

To be a great DC player in my view, you have to do it away as well as at home. Gaudio can't do it away, pretty much all of our players have shown to this point, bar Nalbandian, that they also cannot.

Hopefully JMDP will do so (I think only injury stands in his way, I'm not worried about him fulfilling his potential in the slightest), and maybe Chucho and Canas can also offer some support away from clay away from home.

Cañas has a history of being a not so good DC player while Zabaleta is simply terrible.

I agree, Canas has not produced the consistency we would hope. Hopefully he can offer that to us from now on, a nice base to build on in Austria. Zabaleta? Well, as I said, his play at home has been limited, he's only played one at home and it was a dead rubber, which he won. My point was that all our players win at home nearly all the time, so what can be read into Gaudio's home record? That he is a good DC home player, not a great DC player in totality.

I think it's harsh to call Zabaleta a terrible DC player, he doesn't have much of a record to speak of either way.

Calleri's only notable DC win in singles was in Malaga. Puerta never won a singles match in World Group.

You're branching it out again, I was just commenting on home records because of your belief that Gaudio is a great DC player, which can only be based on his home record. If you gave me the choice of Calleri or Gaudio, anywhere for DC, I'd take Calleri.

Why?

Because we know Gaudio can only play at home. Calleri has a good chance to beat the kind of players Gaudio has beaten at home, would you not agree? And in addition he always shows the heart of a lion (prone to the odd choke :D ), and the win in Malaga over Ferrero is surely above anything Gaudio has done in DC? The win in Malaga is arguably the best single win of this batch of players.

Nalbandian v Hewitt in Oz or Calleri v Ferrero in Spain? I'd say Calleri. As Ferrero was the King of Clay at the time, while we know Hewitt is not the player he once (and David was improved) was and none of us were surprised when Nalbandian slaughtered him.

Coria's and Chucho's DC records are still far away from Gaudio's in terms of quantity and/or quality.

Agreed about quantity, not quality. Coria's DC home record is also so limited it's not worth debating. But Chucho I think will be likely to have as good a home record as Gaudio in the coming 2/3 years, but we'll have to see if that plays out.

Coria is so far from a DC recall, it's not worth talking about until he actually gets back in the top 50 at the very least.

I'm sorry but its crystal clear that Gaudio has been the 2nd best DC player (Nalbandian being the best).

Again, I don't disagree. I disagree with you claiming he is an Argentine DC great because of his home record. He has been good and got the job done at home. But it's not just home records that make a great DC player.

Just because he's our current 2nd best DC player by stats, doesn't mean he is a great DC player.

Playing at home is difficult for many players.

It is for other nations, not ours. I think it's proven that our players excel in the home support of DC ties rather than shrink at the responsibility and pressure.

If Gaudio was in a good level of play, I wouldn't hesitate to chose him for a home tie.

I wouldn't hesistate to pick at home any number of our players - Nalbandian, Coria, Chucho, Calleri, Canas and so on.

We are great at home, but we know it's not enough to be great at home to win the DC, you have to at some point get it done away from home too.

The QF in Sweden is a virtual final for us.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 04:56 PM
Not at all, I'm not claiming those players faced greats while Gaudio faced nobodies. I'm saying it's just a matter of time and health that guys like Chucho and Del Potro will have comparable home records to Gaudio, but that alone does not make them great DC players.

If Chucho and Juan Martín manage to play at the level Gaudio did while playing at home (and I hope they do) on a regular basis, then I think they will be great Davis Cup players. By the way, I think they have the potential to be even better Davis Cup players than el gato.

To be a great DC player in my view, you have to do it away as well as at home. Gaudio can't do it away, pretty much all of our players have shown to this point, bar Nalbandian, that they also cannot.

Well, thats a matter of opinions. Given his record and performances I see Gaudio as a great Davis Cup player.

Hopefully JMDP will do so (I think only injury stands in his way, I'm not worried about him fulfilling his potential in the slightest), and maybe Chucho and Canas can also offer some support away from clay away from home.

As I said in another thread. This might be the strongest team we have ever had to play on fast courts. And in a couple of years if Nalbandian keeps playing, it can be even better.

I agree, Canas has not produced the consistency we would hope. Hopefully he can offer that to us from now on, a nice base to build on in Austria. Zabaleta? Well, as I said, his play at home has been limited, he's only played one at home and it was a dead rubber, which he won. My point was that all our players win at home nearly all the time, so what can be read into Gaudio's home record? That he is a good DC home player, not a great DC player in totality.

I highly doubt all the players you mentioned would have won against the players Gaudio faced in the World Group. And the way Gaudio did it. The "we always win at home" argument, wouldn't stand for some of the players you mentioned, when playing in World Group.

I think it's harsh to call Zabaleta a terrible DC player, he doesn't have much of a record to speak of either way.

I like Zabaleta. But its harsh and true. Zabaleta, just can't hold his nerves to even finish a DC match.

You're branching it out again, I was just commenting on home records because of your belief that Gaudio is a great DC player, which can only be based on his home record. If you gave me the choice of Calleri or Gaudio, anywhere for DC, I'd take Calleri.

Why?

Because we know Gaudio can only play at home. Calleri has a good chance to beat the kind of players Gaudio has beaten at home, would you not agree?

no. Calleri plays better when he faces better opposition, and he doesn't have the pressure to win. Plus his high risk kind of game is not what I want for a match that we are favorites to win because we are playing at home. I would only chose Calleri over a fit Gaudio, if we are in an emergency situation and we need a player to perform a "miracle" against the rivals best player. For me Calleri in singles is a desperate measure, in doubles its different because he shares the pressure.

And in addition he always shows the heart of a lion (prone to the odd choke :D ), and the win in Malaga over Ferrero is surely above anything Gaudio has done in DC? The win in Malaga is arguably the best single win of this batch of players.

true. Heart of a lion and the most impressive DC result. Still, Gaudio showed to be a better DC player, leading the Argentine team to a DC semifinal.

Nalbandian v Hewitt in Oz or Calleri v Ferrero in Spain? I'd say Calleri. As Ferrero was the King of Clay at the time, while we know Hewitt is not the player he once (and David was improved) was and none of us were surprised when Nalbandian slaughtered him.

yes, Calleri's win was the most impressive. But his DC record shouldn't be over-hyped. That was his only notable singles win in DC.

Agreed about quantity, not quality. Coria's DC home record is also so limited it's not worth debating. But Chucho I think will be likely to have as good a home record as Gaudio in the coming 2/3 years, but we'll have to see if that plays out.

I think I said something like that in a previous post.

Coria is so far from a DC recall, it's not worth talking about until he actually gets back in the top 50 at the very least.

Agreed.

Again, I don't disagree. I disagree with you claiming he is an Argentine DC great because of his home record. He has been good and got the job done at home. But it's not just home records that make a great DC player.

Just because he's our current 2nd best DC player by stats, doesn't mean he is a great DC player.

Fair enough. Although I stand in my position. Gaudio proved to be a great DC player. ;)

It is for other nations, not ours. I think it's proven that our players excel in the home support of DC ties rather than shrink at the responsibility and pressure.

some of them do, some don't.

I wouldn't hesistate to pick at home any number of our players - Nalbandian, Coria, Chucho, Calleri, Canas and so on.

We are great at home, but we know it's not enough to be great at home to win the DC, you have to at some point get it done away from home too.

The QF in Sweden is a virtual final for us.

I'm confident for that tie, as long as there are no injuries.

jayjay
02-13-2007, 05:11 PM
[QUOTE=WillyCañas;4863576]If Chucho and Juan Martín manage to play at the level Gaudio did while playing at home (and I hope they do) on a regular basis, then I think they will be great Davis Cup players. By the way, I think they have the potential to be even better Davis Cup players than el gato.

Agreed.

Well, thats a matter of opinions. Given his record and performances I see Gaudio as a great Davis Cup player.

We'll agree to disagree on this one. :) Gaudio great at home. But not great as a whole.

As I said in another thread. This might be the strongest team we have ever had to play on fast courts. And in a couple of years if Nalbandian keeps playing, it can be even better.

Agreed, we have the makings here of a Russia like squad. But we have to put the trophies on the table like they have.

I highly doubt all the players you mentioned would have won against the players Gaudio faced in the World Group.

Fair point on the whole, but I'm pretty confident that an on form Coria or Chucho wins all the ties at home that Gaudio has. But of course, that's speculation. Gaudio got the wins, and I credit and applaud him for that, but that doesn't make him great.

What makes Nalbandian great is his victories away from Argentina, not in Argentina.

The "we always win at home" argument, wouldn't stand for some of the players you mentioned, when playing in World Group.

Possibly, I see what you mean for the likes of Zabaleta or Chela, but the others are pretty strong at home.

I like Zabaleta. But its harsh and true. Zabaleta, just can't hold his nerves to even finish a DC match.

:lol: Harsh, true and funny.

Calleri plays better when he faces better opposition, and he doesn't have the pressure to win. Plus his high risk kind of game is not what I want for a match that we are favorites to win because we are playing at home.

I agree with your analysis, in terms of his risk game and his ability to raise his level when faced with a greater challenge. And for me that's the crux of the issue, in DC you invariably at some point over a tie or the year, need to raise your level.

Calleri can do that and he's shown it, Gaudio hasn't outside of Argentina.

I would only chose Calleri over a fit Gaudio, if we are in an emergency situation and we need a player to perform a "miracle" against the rivals best player. For me Calleri in singles is a desperate measure, in doubles its different because he shares the pressure.

Fair points. Is Gaudio the better player? Yes. Is Gaudio the better player for DC? I'd say no. I trust Calleri more than Gaudio to give everything and it being enough allied with some talent. Rather than talent but a doubt over whether Gaudio wakes up hungry for the fight or not. I am sure he doesn't know what he will do each day on court, it's a nightmare for the rest of us too! :lol:

With Calleri, what you see is what you get. I have great respect for him when it comes to DC. It's hard to get that Ferrero match out of your mind (along with his general solidity), it was an incredible couple of hours. :)

yes, Calleri's win was the most impressive. But his DC record shouldn't be over-hyped. That was his only notable singles win in DC.

His record is not as good as Gaudio's, but I'd take Calleri the player in DC over Gaudio for the reasons explained above.

Fair enough. Although I stand in my position. Gaudio proved to be a great DC player. ;)

:)

I'm confident for that tie, as long as there are no injuries.

No offence to Pim-Pim, but is there any chance he might have a blister or two that week? :p

I like our chances with our full side if he is there, but if he's not, it wouldn't hurt.

Galathea
02-13-2007, 05:20 PM
The problem with Gaudio is he's not reliable under pressure.. And always was like that. That's why Malaga always shows up. It wasn't a fluke, a bad day: it was a picture of how he is. Now is more notorious, but back then? It was the same.

Also, at 2003? Don't want to sound like a hater of Gaston, wich I'm not, but nobody can say that He lead us to the SF???? He didn't lead Argentina to anything . Let's speak very clearly here and with the truth, letting aside rankigs, he was in fact the single number 2. He won two points per tie? One point was dead rubbers in both cases, meaning, NO PRESSURE (the winning against Davydenko was a dead rubber) Guess who was the one with the pressure of playing the three points needed: Nalbo. Gaudio was the Acasuso of that year. He did his part and that's a lot of merit, but he didn't lead us or put us in any place.


Argentina- Germany 2003

R1 - G.GAUDIO (ARG) def. R.SCHUETTLER (GER)
6-2 6-3 6-0
R2 - D.NALBANDIAN (ARG) def. L.BURGSMULLER (GER)
6-1 7-6(4) 7-5
R3 - L.ARNOLD-KER / D.NALBANDIAN (ARG) def. M.KOHLMANN / R.SCHUETTLER (GER)
6-1 0-6 4-6 6-1 6-2

With Argentina in the next round, Chela played for Nalbandian (who won 2 live rubbers points). Gaudio played last.

Argentina-Russia

R1 - D.NALBANDIAN (ARG) def. N.DAVYDENKO (RUS)
6-2 6-2 7-5
R2 - G.GAUDIO (ARG) def. Y.KAFELNIKOV (RUS)
6-4 6-0 6-2
R3 - L.ARNOLD-KER / D.NALBANDIAN (ARG) def. Y.KAFELNIKOV / M.YOUZHNY (RUS)
3-6 6-3 6-4 6-3

Nalbandian was replaced with Zabaleta (who won) after winning two live rubber
He didn't lead us to anyplace. He helped a lot? yes, but when he had to lead, he tanked against Moya (1-6 4-6 2-6) and Ferrero (4-6 0-6 0-6)

Again, I'm not trying to dismiss Gaudio's work that year, but let's not give him more merits than what he had: a good second single that couldn't lead when Nalbandian was not there. Again, because of his mind. Wich is a shame because he has a lot of talent. But IS NOT RELIABLE. He went to play those ties knowing that Nalbandian was the one with the pressure of winning three points and the leader..

jayjay
02-13-2007, 05:23 PM
The problem with Gaudio is he's not reliable under pressure.

That's it right there. And it's not even a question of being relied upon to win under pressure, it's not being relied upon to fight under pressure, which is the least any player should do.

His ability is not in question, his temperament is.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 05:34 PM
Agreed.



We'll agree to disagree on this one. :) Gaudio great at home. But not great as a whole.



Agreed, we have the makings here of a Russia like squad. But we have to put the trophies on the table like they have.



Fair point on the whole, but I'm pretty confident that an on form Coria or Chucho wins all the ties at home that Gaudio has. But of course, that's speculation. Gaudio got the wins, and I credit and applaud him for that, but that doesn't make him great.

What makes Nalbandian great is his victories away from Argentina, not in Argentina.



Possibly, I see what you mean for the likes of Zabaleta or Chela, but the others are pretty strong at home.



:lol: Harsh, true and funny.



I agree with your analysis, in terms of his risk game and his ability to raise his level when faced with a greater challenge. And for me that's the crux of the issue, in DC you invariably at some point over a tie or the year, need to raise your level.

Calleri can do that and he's shown it, Gaudio hasn't outside of Argentina.



Fair points. Is Gaudio the better player? Yes. Is Gaudio the better player for DC? I'd say no. I trust Calleri more than Gaudio to give everything and it being enough allied with some talent. Rather than talent but a doubt over whether Gaudio wakes up hungry for the fight or not. I am sure he doesn't know what he will do each day on court, it's a nightmare for the rest of us too! :lol:

With Calleri, what you see is what you get. I have great respect for him when it comes to DC. It's hard to get that Ferrero match out of your mind (along with his general solidity), it was an incredible couple of hours. :)



His record is not as good as Gaudio's, but I'd take Calleri the player in DC over Gaudio for the reasons explained above.



:)



No offence to Pim-Pim, but is there any chance he might have a blister or two that week? :p

I like our chances with our full side if he is there, but if he's not, it wouldn't hurt.

Well, it seems we have got to a death point in this discussion. :)

Its really impressive how we manage to have a competitive DC team, after we lost 3 of our recent top ten, and GS champion/finalists, Gaudio, Coria and Puerta.

Remember when Gumy was our best and only player in the top 100?

only "real fans" followed Argentine tennis those days... :lol:

Galathea
02-13-2007, 05:40 PM
Remember when Gumy was our best and only player in the top 100?

only "real fans" followed Argentine tennis those days... :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think we were trying to get Vilas, old and all, to play for Argentina.

It's really incredible how it chaged all. Thank GOd!!!!!!!

The AAT should have a better tennis program. It's the only way. But that's for another discussion becuase there are a lot of interns because of the money and the tennis schools

Hendu
02-13-2007, 05:40 PM
The problem with Gaudio is he's not reliable under pressure.. And always was like that. That's why Malaga always shows up. It wasn't a fluke, a bad day: it was a picture of how he is. Now is more notorious, but back then? It was the same.

Also, at 2003? Don't want to sound like a hater of Gaston, wich I'm not, but nobody can say that He lead us to the SF???? He didn't lead Argentina to anything . Let's speak very clearly here and with the truth, letting aside rankigs, he was in fact the single number 2. He won two points per tie? One point was dead rubbers in both cases, meaning, NO PRESSURE (the winning against Davydenko was a dead rubber) Guess who was the one with the pressure of playing the three points needed: Nalbo. Gaudio was the Acasuso of that year. He did his part and that's a lot of merit, but he didn't lead us or put us in any place.


Argentina- Germany 2003

R1 - G.GAUDIO (ARG) def. R.SCHUETTLER (GER)
6-2 6-3 6-0
R2 - D.NALBANDIAN (ARG) def. L.BURGSMULLER (GER)
6-1 7-6(4) 7-5
R3 - L.ARNOLD-KER / D.NALBANDIAN (ARG) def. M.KOHLMANN / R.SCHUETTLER (GER)
6-1 0-6 4-6 6-1 6-2

With Argentina in the next round, Chela played for Nalbandian (who won 2 live rubbers points). Gaudio played last.

Argentina-Russia

R1 - D.NALBANDIAN (ARG) def. N.DAVYDENKO (RUS)
6-2 6-2 7-5
R2 - G.GAUDIO (ARG) def. Y.KAFELNIKOV (RUS)
6-4 6-0 6-2
R3 - L.ARNOLD-KER / D.NALBANDIAN (ARG) def. Y.KAFELNIKOV / M.YOUZHNY (RUS)
3-6 6-3 6-4 6-3

Nalbandian was replaced with Zabaleta (who won) after winning two live rubber
He didn't lead us to anyplace. He helped a lot? yes, but when he had to lead, he tanked against Moya (1-6 4-6 2-6) and Ferrero (4-6 0-6 0-6)

Again, I'm not trying to dismiss Gaudio's work that year, but let's not give him more merits than what he had: a good second single that couldn't lead when Nalbandian was not there. Again, because of his mind. Wich is a shame because he has a lot of talent. But IS NOT RELIABLE. He went to play those ties knowing that Nalbandian was the one with the pressure of winning three points and the leader..

I was talking about 2002. When Gaudio clearly was the best Argentine DC player, although not the best ranked.

Galathea
02-13-2007, 05:42 PM
I was talking about 2002. When Gaudio clearly was the best Argentine DC player, although not the best ranked.
Oh, sorry, I thougth you were talking about the 2003 . My bad :smash:
But to be honest, the same goes for that year, in the sense that Gaudio won two points per tie but one of them were dead rubbers in both cases too. The first round Cañas won the singles and doubles and Gaudio a singles (the other Argentina was 3-0 already) and after that, Cañas won the doubles with Arnold, Chela a single and Gaudio the other (in the tie it was more difficult in the sense that it was a team not another player taking the whole responsability, but there was not leader there, IMO you can't say Gaudio lead us to the SF either. He was under more pressure than in 2003 but still is was on Cañas first and "a team" after that. And at the SF, after losing the single, he was a total mess and guess who replaced him? Nabaldian who won that epic double and had to debut against Safin at his best, and showed how to lose fighting.

But I think we're at somekind of dead end here. We simple dissagree about what a great DC player is ;)

jayjay
02-13-2007, 05:46 PM
[QUOTE=WillyCañas;4863825]Well, it seems we have got to a death point in this discussion. :)

:) Good talking to you as ever. :yeah:

Its really impressive how we manage to have a competitive DC team, after we lost 3 of our recent top ten, and GS champion/finalists, Gaudio, Coria and Puerta.

The drugs have helped us alot, if we only we could get greater quantities shipped in more regularly?

Remember when Gumy was our best and only player in the top 100?

Those were the days. An unfulfilled generation. :)

Hendu
02-13-2007, 05:49 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think we were trying to get Vilas, old and all, to play for Argentina.

It's really incredible how it chaged all. Thank GOd!!!!!!!

The AAT should have a better tennis program. It's the only way. But that's for another discussion becuase there are a lot of interns because of the money and the tennis schools

And then Zabaleta came, and he was going to be a huge star.

I remember Lobo made a bet with Chino Rios that Zabaleta would get into the top ten.

And the funny thing is that seemed possible until the "chairs day" in Chile.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 05:54 PM
:) Good talking to you as ever. :yeah:

:yeah:

The drugs have helped us alot, if we only we could get greater quantities shipped in more regularly?

the devaluation of the peso doesn't help either. :p

Those were the days. An unfulfilled generation. :)

What do the fans of today know about tennis, if they have never seen Charpentier play?

that guy even made the DC team... do you think he would have a chance today?

jayjay
02-13-2007, 06:01 PM
What do the fans of today know about tennis, if they have never seen Charpentier play?

that guy even made the DC team... do you think he would have a chance today?

Don't be too harsh on the guy, this is the man who beat our current best DC player despite having to digest a bagel. Although El Rey was ranked 1288 at the time. :D

Hendu
02-13-2007, 06:13 PM
Oh, sorry, I thougth you were talking about the 2003 . My bad :smash:
But to be honest, the same goes for that year, in the sense that Gaudio won two points per tie but one of them were dead rubbers in both cases too. The first round Cañas won the singles and doubles and Gaudio a singles (the other Argentina was 3-0 already) and after that, Cañas won the doubles with Arnold, Chela a single and Gaudio the other (in the tie it was more difficult in the sense that it was a team not another player taking the whole responsability, but there was not leader there, IMO you can't say Gaudio lead us to the SF either. He was under more pressure than in 2003 but still is was on Cañas first and "a team" after that. And at the SF, after losing the single, he was a total mess and guess who replaced him? Nabaldian who won that epic double and had to debut against Safin at his best, and showed how to lose fighting.

I don't think a player needs to win 3 matches to be the leader of the team. Gaudio was clearly our best player, and got the most important wins in those ties, beating the best ranked players of the opposing teams.

But I think we're at somekind of dead end here. We simple dissagree about what a great DC player is ;)

Indeed.

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 10:26 PM
Seems I missed out on all the fun here, then again a lot of it is has been stuff that has been covered before in enough detail. Yes, of course lets send a guy to play Davis Cup whose form was so bad he couldn't get laid in a brothel with a fistful of $100 bills, but lets forget that.

Yes, when Hernan "I don't have much talent, but plenty of courage" Gumy was the leading player, it didn't seem that long agp.

mtw, run along and the world needs more bogus theories.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 10:43 PM
Seems I missed out on all the fun here, then again a lot of it is has been stuff that has been covered before in enough detail. Yes, of course lets send a guy to play Davis Cup whose form was so bad he couldn't get laid in a brothel with a fistful of $100 bills, but lets forget that.

Do you think we are repetitive or unoriginal, that we lack the ability to think of good topics to talk about?

I think we did a pretty good job in going completely off topic, and giving this thread a new and better direction...

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 10:49 PM
Do you think we are repetitive or unoriginal, that we lack the ability to think of good topics to talk about?

I think we did a pretty good job in going completely off topic, and giving this thread a new and better direction...

Gaudio and Malaga has been done before many times. He should never been called up, but it was only cause of desperate measures. Yes, the level did improve from there which was a good thing. Even that happened for a reason as to look what happened the next year after that particular fiasco.

As for Argentine tennis, well they got an excellent generation of players, but it wasn't cause of the federation. I will bump that other thread up.

Hendu
02-13-2007, 10:59 PM
Gaudio and Malaga has been done before many times. He should never been called up, but it was only cause of desperate measures. Yes, the level did improve from there which was a good thing. Even that happened for a reason as to look what happened the next year after that particular fiasco.

As for Argentine tennis, well they got an excellent generation of players, but it wasn't cause of the federation. I will bump that other thread up.

Gaudio in Malaga is going to be revisited many times. And I hope he puts his stuff together, jumps back and regains his top claycourter form.

Action Jackson
02-13-2007, 11:08 PM
Gaudio in Malaga is going to be revisited many times. And I hope he puts his stuff together, jumps back and regains his top claycourter form.

He has to help himself. I mean it works both ways, if he is unhappy off court it impacts on his play and vice versa.

Too bad that Pantera isn't with him anymore. Yes, you guys did well with this thread, and it's rare to see some coherent discussion going on with a particular thread. Sometimes it starts like that, though usually it doesn't end that way.

Burrow
02-13-2007, 11:16 PM
I have the feeling if he plasyed somebody like Nadal he would give it more fight and passion and take it right to the wire. He wouldnt have lost this if it was at the french open,

Hendu
02-14-2007, 09:15 PM
Classic Gaudio talking...

"The truth is that I don't find an explanation to what is happening to me. I think it is a sum up of everything, psycological, physical, of will.
Sincerely I don't know and I think I don't even deserve that you make me an interview. At this moment I feel like the worse player in the history of tennis".

:smash:

http://www2.uol.com.br/tenisbrasil/ultnot/eng/ult1083u79.htm

lau
02-14-2007, 09:23 PM
It is painful to see :o