Can Roddick Win A Major Clay Title Within 2 Years? If so, which one? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Can Roddick Win A Major Clay Title Within 2 Years? If so, which one?

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rassklovn
03-25-2004, 02:53 AM
Does Roddick have a realistic chance of winning a major claycourt title, within 2 years? If, so which one would it be?

Yes, I have been one of Duckboy's big critics when it comes to his playing abilities outside of North America and especially on the clay. I don't think he will as he doesn't have the patience, tactical nous and he struggles badly with the movement on clay.

I am aware that he has won clay titles before though apart from St Pölten where it was a very ordinary field, the rest have been in the USA where the overall player depth of these tournaments has been lower than the ones in Europe.

Which title?

Monte Carlo
Rome
Hamburg
French Open
Barcelona ( though he will never play there)

Tennis Fool
03-25-2004, 02:58 AM
I think if Duckboy is on, has the right plan against the right opponents, he could win a Masters, but I don't think it will be in the next two seasons. I have a sinking feeling he's going out 1st rd again at the FO-- I think he's waterleveled with Gilbert.

hedgehog
03-25-2004, 03:04 AM
If he joins an art college and takes up clay modelling yes...people will always go mad for jugs and pots.. lol as far as tennis goes no...its hard courts and grass for mr roddick and silverware.

TennisLurker
03-25-2004, 03:15 AM
Rome has the fastest clay, maybe the conditions will be particularly fast in the future like in 1994 when Sampras, Becker and Navratilova reached the finals.
That could benefit Roddick.

Kitzbuhel is also quite important and there the clay is quite fast because of the altitude.

Havok
03-25-2004, 03:26 AM
well i wanna see him perform on clay this year. We won't know how he'll play on clay this year with his new game. I mean it's not totally new, but he's become more patient, hits far less errors than he used to, and has improved his return/backhand. after this year's clay season, then we can sort of judge. I believe that he can win a TMS on clay, why not? crazier things have happened before, and at much bigger events :scared:

Dirk
03-25-2004, 03:28 AM
He has no chance because the top 15 clay guys will get him. Andy's power game doesn't work and he won't get his winners on the clay. He will never develop the patience of defensive skills to win and as time goes on the great clay courters will only get better and better. I think at some point he will not even bother playing the majority of the clay masters. He is already skipping Carlo this year.

Havok
03-25-2004, 03:31 AM
Roddick won't skip the majority of the clay TMS events no matter how crappy he is :rolleyes: and your precious Federer has skipped Monte Carlo as well, he might as well skipp 'em all no? :drive:

Dirk
03-25-2004, 03:46 AM
Roger skipped Carlo last year due to the flu. Carlo was never on Andy's schedule this year.

Havok
03-25-2004, 03:51 AM
i know Monte Carlo wasn't on Andy's schedule this year :rolleyes: i think I would know my own fave's schedule :retard: the point I was making was your remarks on him skipping the majority of clay TMS events was dumb, and that no top player would do that nowadays

Dirk
03-25-2004, 03:58 AM
Agassi has been skipping Carlo and Hamburg for years. I think he usually plays Rome. Hell this year will be the first time he doesn't play any clay masters till RG. He is 34 so I guess playing on clay is in his blood so maybe he doesn't need tournament play. Maybe I jumped to conclusions about Andy skipping the masters on clay, Andy can make the qrts and maybe semis here and there on the clay masters. Andy just needs to develop other things besides power to win much more on clay. That likely won't happen since he will have the change the face of his game just for that surface. Naldo just be happy Andy has a much better chance of making the 2nd week at RG year in and year out than Paradorn. It could be worse so... :p ;)

Lee
03-25-2004, 04:08 AM
In 2 years, I have to vote no chance at all!

There are so many good clay court players around for him to get a good draw.

CooCooCachoo
03-25-2004, 04:19 AM
I voted for the Hamburg TMS, because this tournament usually has some surprises and doesn't show the best claycourt tennis there is. Out of the claycourt TMS and Roland Garros, it seems as if the players are least motivated to play there, giving Roddick the biggest chance there. But he could always win at my local club, if things don't work out.

Dirk
03-25-2004, 04:24 AM
Rome is his best chance since its fast. Hamburg is too slow for him. All of the clay courters try their best at all of them since they have a shot to win them all especially Hamburg for the lower claycourter who aren't JC and Coria or Guga or Moya since those guys might have played themselves out and want to rest for RG. Still people like Moya and JC never won Hamburg and Saffy sure the hell wants to win that one since he lost in the finals twice so I don't think Andy has any chance of winning that one. Rome, Carlo, Hamburg, that is the order that Andy could likely win one of them. Though he won't win any of the clay biggies.

Domino
03-25-2004, 05:04 AM
No.

J. Corwin
03-25-2004, 07:31 AM
I think he can. More than likely not but I wouldn't say it's past him to win a masters if things go favorably for him.

joske
03-25-2004, 08:53 AM
He probably can..? But I can only pray that he won't... :)

Action Jackson
03-25-2004, 10:35 AM
In theory he could win one within 2 years, but I don't think so.

For one he would have to have a beneficial draw, two also he would need the weather to be consistently warm as that makes the clay quicker and if the organisers put less clay on the surface that would help him.

Yes, attacking players like Edberg, Stich and Sampras have won TMS titles on clay, and I don't think Roddick is as good as them not even at that age, as these players had good wins on the surface beating former French Open champions and tough claycourters, something Roddick hasn't managed to achieve as of yet.

The other factor against him is that his serve will come back more often on clay, and he doesn't have the overall tactical ability to move the ball around effectively with variations of spin and angles, his lack of movement on clay hinders him especially when the rallies get longer where he already is at a huge disadvantage.

Hewitt is better on clay than Roddick and hasn't managed to win a major title on clay. Roddick may do so if all the above factors are in his favour, but within 2 years it's highly unlikely.

Action Jackson
03-25-2004, 11:31 AM
Kitzbuhel is also quite important and there the clay is quite fast because of the altitude.

He will never play there as it the tournament is played in the North American hardcourt season where he gets most of his points.

WyveN
03-25-2004, 12:08 PM
i don't think he will win one in the next 2 years. "no chance at all" is a bit over the top though

Action Jackson
03-25-2004, 12:28 PM
i don't think he will win one in the next 2 years. "no chance at all" is a bit over the top though

Possibly, then again not many people would ever think such a guy like Alex Corretja could ever beat on Sampras on grass from 2 sets down.

Though Duckboy won't be winning one within 2 years I think that's a fairly safe bet.

sigmagirl91
03-25-2004, 12:37 PM
I don't think that Andy can win often on clay either-unless he develops other areas of his game, such as serve and volley, in order to balance out his serve....

Deboogle!.
03-25-2004, 01:57 PM
Andy IS scheduled to play Monte Carlo, what are you guys talking about? At least, it's listed on his official site's schedule.

As for the question... I think he has a chance, but I have to wait to see how he does this year, first time on clay with Brad, to really be able to say.

Action Jackson
03-25-2004, 02:06 PM
Brad Gilbert was never known for his ability to play on clay, it will be interesting to see how he can help Roddick's game on that surface.

Deboogle!.
03-25-2004, 02:33 PM
Brad Gilbert was never known for his ability to play on clay, it will be interesting to see how he can help Roddick's game on that surface.

Yep, it will be interesting, that's why I'm reserving my judgement on the poll question. Andre had some successes on clay when he was under Brad's tutelage, so who knows. If Brad helps him anywhere it wouldn't be suiting his game to clay so much as his mentality - the patience, etc. that's my opinion anyhow

jtipson
03-25-2004, 02:38 PM
Yep, it will be interesting, that's why I'm reserving my judgement on the poll question. Andre had some successes on clay when he was under Brad's tutelage, so who knows. If Brad helps him anywhere it wouldn't be suiting his game to clay so much as his mentality - the patience, etc. that's my opinion anyhow

Personally I wouldn't give Brad much credit for Andre's success on clay, he already had what it took - by the time he was Andy's age he'd had two RG finals (although he probably should have won them both).

But it will be interesting to see how Roddick goes in the next few weeks. He probably will do better than last year, but I can't really see him holding his seeding in any of the big events.

Action Jackson
03-25-2004, 02:40 PM
Yep, it will be interesting, that's why I'm reserving my judgement on the poll question. Andre had some successes on clay when he was under Brad's tutelage, so who knows. If Brad helps him anywhere it wouldn't be suiting his game to clay so much as his mentality - the patience, etc. that's my opinion anyhow

Agassi made his 2 finals when he was coached by Nick "Sunglasses" Bolliteri at the forehand academy.

Roddick gets too easily frustrated on his favourite serve and when his serve starts to come back more often he doesn't have the game to beat the top claycourters. Those last 2 sets against Sargsian at the FO, who isn't that good on clay are the things that Gilbert will have to battle against. I think its time that he starts beating some decent players on clay this year. I don't think he is so bad that he will lose to Robredo on clay, he could beat him on anything.

The question was 2 years and yes there is plenty of time to answer the question.

Experimentee
03-25-2004, 02:41 PM
I think he can if his draw opened up, at least once in his career. You cant be #1 and not win a big clay tournament, even Sampras did!

Action Jackson
03-25-2004, 02:44 PM
I think he can if his draw opened up, at least once in his career. You cant be #1 and not win a big clay tournament, even Sampras did!

Wrong, Boris Becker managed to achieve it and Jimmy Connors never won a clay title in Europe. To be fair at least Becker had made major finals TMS Rome and Monte Carlo.

Deboogle!.
03-25-2004, 02:55 PM
I think its time that he starts beating some decent players on clay this year. I don't think he is so bad that he will lose to Robredo on clay, he could beat him on anything.


Oh I totally agree, it's time he steps up on the red stuff, big time.

Action Jackson
03-25-2004, 03:12 PM
Oh I totally agree, it's time he steps up on the red stuff, big time.

Go to the hospital bunk, one I didn't offend you and two you actually agreed with something I said. I hope they have found the illness that is effecting you?

Deboogle!.
03-25-2004, 03:16 PM
Go to the hospital bunk, one I didn't offend you and two you actually agreed with something I said. I hope they have found the illness that is effecting you?

:p

Fumus
03-25-2004, 03:24 PM
I think Roddick can win the French with alittle luck and a good draw, in a few years I think after his game matures a bit.

Action Jackson
03-25-2004, 03:29 PM
I think Roddick can win the French with alittle luck and a good draw, in a few years I think after his game matures a bit.

How much luck do you want him to have? Before he could win the French. he would only have played serve/volleyers up until the final and he met Tommy Robredo or Xavier Malisse in the final. It was 35 degrees every day he played, and there was one less layer of clay laid at RG.

I will say it now, he will never win the French Open in his career. He might win a clay TMS, but he will won't succeed at RG, there have been better attacking players than himself who haven't been successful and I don't think he can adapt enough to be able to successful there.

Deboogle!.
03-25-2004, 03:32 PM
Andy himself has said several times "I go to three of the slams knowing I have a chance of winning" - he knows it ain't ever gonna happen.

But, that doesn't mean he can't improve on 1st round :p

tangerine_dream
03-25-2004, 03:34 PM
If everybody suddenly comes down with the chicken-pox, sure why not? ;)

Action Jackson
03-25-2004, 03:37 PM
If Roddick makes the 3rd round at RG, that is a cause for celebration. Then again he isn't alone when it comes to big players not losing in the 1st round.

Leo
03-25-2004, 06:02 PM
Rome has the fastest clay, maybe the conditions will be particularly fast in the future like in 1994 when Sampras, Becker and Navratilova reached the finals.
That could benefit Roddick.

Kitzbuhel is also quite important and there the clay is quite fast because of the altitude.

He has never and will never play Kitz.

He has reached the semifinals of Roma before, so you may be correct that, with their faster clay courts, that will be his best chance. But I don't expect Roddick to win any major clay court events in the next two years.

the cat
03-25-2004, 07:40 PM
Of course Roddick can win a major clay title within 2 years. In fact I bet he wins 1 this year! :D Roddick has already won a couple of clay court tournaments. And his dynamic serve and forehand can help pull him through some close clay court matches.

Chloe le Bopper
03-25-2004, 11:21 PM
I think Roddick can win the French with alittle luck and a good draw, in a few years I think after his game matures a bit.
:lol:

Anyways, to answer the question, I agree with GWH. It's theoretically possible, but pretty unlikely. I'm not about to vote "definately not", but I would be extremely surprised if it happened, and he actually had to beat more than one Gaudio to do it. I would be less surprised if he got the soften draw of all time, and then did it.

Chloe le Bopper
03-25-2004, 11:22 PM
Of course Roddick can win a major clay title within 2 years. In fact I bet he wins 1 this year! :D Roddick has already won a couple of clay court tournaments. And his dynamic serve and forehand can help pull him through some close clay court matches.
Tell me... what is Roddicks best clay win ever? Remind me. *pretends that she doesn't already know*

I guess that Ferrero is going win Queens this year too. Cool.

Deboogle!.
03-25-2004, 11:27 PM
Tell me... what is Roddicks best clay win ever?

He's had a good one? :lol:

Sampras, definitely :p

Chloe le Bopper
03-25-2004, 11:44 PM
Davydenko maybe? In name, Coria. But only in name.

Chloe le Bopper
03-25-2004, 11:46 PM
Every year I say "he's not this bad. He's really not this bad. He can't keep losing to Wayne Arthurs on clay". Last year I even had him in the fourth round of RG! (is that GWH I hear laughing? Shut up!)

I mean, really... I'll be surprised if he ever does anything of great significance on clay, but he really can't keep being this "bad" on it... or can he?

Deboogle!.
03-25-2004, 11:51 PM
I mean, really... I'll be surprised if he ever does anything of great significance on clay, but he really can't keep being this "bad" on it... or can he?

he "can" be this bad forever, but I expect him to improve this year and next. If he doesn't, it'll be pretty disappointing as a fan. In terms of his career and how he'll be viewed, if he doesn't improve significantly over the years it'll just be bad. His game is still growing a lot and he's really been working on several of his weaknesses, so I'm willing to give him a (little teeny bit of a) benefit of the doubt, but he's gotta do better or it's going to be even more embarrassing for him than it already is lmao

WyveN
03-26-2004, 01:12 AM
Roddick seems to be in a slump right now, particularly his base line game, so logic says he will have a awful clay season but then again, stranger things have happened.
Certainly winning the French is far out of his reach until he makes some drastic improvements, whether he is even capable of making the needed improvements is doubtful.

heya
03-26-2004, 03:15 AM
Gilbert really knows how to liven up the party with his mouth. gag
Paul Annacone, in contrast, is mature and wise.

Denise
03-26-2004, 03:38 AM
He probably can..? But I can only pray that he won't... :)

:haha: God will gonna show his mercy for all of us, believe me LOL. Yeah, We can pray, at least!! haha.. and We must give to him some negative vibes, LOL. j/k. Well, I think he won't win a major clay.. maybe some small or tournies but RG you're askin' too much for him ;) Actually, it's quite possible of course but I rather keep my obvious opinion lol.

(Gosh I don't wanna this...!! WAWAOOW :armed: LOL)

Action Jackson
03-26-2004, 03:43 AM
Davydenko maybe? In name, Coria. But only in name.

Probably Chang at the French Open when he was a younger punk was his best win. I mean he hasn't beaten guys like Massu, Gaudio, Calleri, Mantilla beating those guys on clay for example would classify as good wins, sure it's not the top but at this stage beating players such as these would gain him some level of respect.

The thing is no matter how bad Roddick does on clay, it won't get scrutinised as it should. An example is Ferrero (still), Coria, Moya, Corretja ( 2 TMS on hardcourt and TMC) are still stigmatised as claycourters, even though they have had good results on other surfaces and have worked hard to improve their games on other surfaces.

Denise
03-26-2004, 03:43 AM
ops, I forgot to say my vote.... :rolleyes:

NO WAY!!!!!!!!! LOL :haha::haha:

lsy
03-26-2004, 03:48 AM
Actually I very often wonder about that too, why is there only term such as "claycourters"??? As GWH pointed out, these so called "claycourters" had been doing very well in other condition then other wise, and they are certainly more "balance" in their performance obviously. I'm quite puzzled by that.

Action Jackson
03-26-2004, 03:58 AM
Actually I very often wonder about that too, why is there only term such as "claycourters"??? As GWH pointed out, these so called "claycourters" had been doing very well in other condition then other wise, and they are certainly more "balance" in their performance obviously. I'm quite puzzled by that.

It mainly occurs in the English-language media the terminology of claycourt specialist. There were and are still some players that have most of their success on clay, just as players have their best results on faster surfaces, yet are not stigmatised, who for the vast majority are from English speaking countries.

It's mainly because the 3 of the Slams are on faster surfaces and are in English speaking countries, plus a good dose old ethnocentrism when it comes to reporting on this. Just because Sergi Bruguera a Spaniard was outstanding on clay, they thought that's all he could play on, forgetting he beat Sampras on hardcourt, made a TMS final on hardcourts and the stigma still continues even if in many cases it's not true.

lsy
03-26-2004, 04:14 AM
It's sort of unfair to these players, I can imagine that Ferrero or Coria has to go to the extent to win a slam in the other 3 to shrug off the "claycourters" label whereas Federer or Andy probably just need to go past few rounds in RO and people will recognise their efforts much better. It's irony especially for Ferrero as he was doing so well in USO last year. I can't forget how he beat Andre, very impressive. Anyway I still believe it's only few idiotic and lazy reporters who will continue to label them as that.

Action Jackson
03-26-2004, 04:37 AM
Of course stereotyping is unfair as it's very lazy that it gives people particular images of a player just because they come from a particular region and not focusing on the game of the player.

If Roddick makes the semi finals of RG, that would get more coverage than Ferrero winning the AO or US Open, the claycourt label will still be there even if he manages to win these tournaments.

Back on topic as I said it's possible for Duckboy to win one, but he needs all the other factors previously mentioned in his favour before it's likely to happen.

Originally posted the cat
Roddick has already won a couple of clay court tournaments. And his dynamic serve and forehand can help pull him through some close clay court matches.

I am sorry St Pölten and a few jabroni tournaments in the US don't really count for much, when it comes to clay expertise. He needs to win one where there is a stronger field and beat some quality players as well.

The dynamic serve comes back more on clay, his forehand doesn't have the variety on the clay, he has the power for sure, but it takes more than power to be successful on clay, and he doesn't have those other parts of his game at this stage to be able to win a TMS this year or next year.

WyveN
03-26-2004, 04:40 AM
Some other Roddick wins on clay:

Gonzalez, Meligeni

WyveN
03-26-2004, 04:45 AM
I believe the "clay specialist" tag exists because of the inability of many tennis legends to win the French Open and the whole long clay season where there are generally different winners compared to the rest of the year.
I believe if someone like Roddick/Federer wins the FO or Ferrero wins AO or the USO it would "merge" the two seasons and "clay court specialist" would not be used as consistently.

lsy
03-26-2004, 04:46 AM
I don't know much about Verkerk, but didn't his guy blast his way through to last year RO final? If he can do that, why not Andy?

WyveN
03-26-2004, 04:49 AM
That is a good point Isy. However he would need faster conditions similar to the ones in 1996/1997 where the big servers enjoyed some success.

Action Jackson
03-26-2004, 04:50 AM
Clay is actually Verkerk's favourite surface Isy, and unlike Roddick he knows how to move effectively on clay in spite of not being the best mover on tour, which helps him set up for his shots.

Action Jackson
03-26-2004, 04:53 AM
I believe the "clay specialist" tag exists because of the inability of many tennis legends to win the French Open and the whole long clay season where there are generally different winners compared to the rest of the year.
I believe if someone like Roddick/Federer wins the FO or Ferrero wins AO or the USO it would "merge" the two seasons and "clay court specialist" would not be used as consistently.

There is some truth in that, but it's still in many ways a negative term. I gave examples of people who are still considered clay specialists in spite of what they have done off the clay.

Kafelnikov wasn't a clay specialist, though he could play on everything and definitely benefited from the fact, that the organisers didn't want Muster winning and made the courts quicker that plus the hot weather also helped as well.

Leo
03-26-2004, 04:53 AM
Verkerk differs from Roddick in that his movement on clay is very natural and his patience and effectiveness in long, baseline rallies is much better. Certainly if Roddick can place his serves consistently well as Verkerk did last year in his run to the RG finals, he can be a factor on clay, but there are still other areas of his game that need improvement. Verkerk didn't rely on his big serve alone.

lsy
03-26-2004, 04:54 AM
Ok maybe I didn't really get to see that, the movement. From what I saw of Verkerk match vs Coria, it seemed to me like he really did just overpower Coria. But of course I wasn't interested enough in both of them to watch it in more details then.

Action Jackson
03-26-2004, 05:05 AM
Isy, you missed plenty of big forehands as well, Coria crying like a baby because he couldn't get the ball back. He flung his racquet after a crying fit and hit a ballgirl with it.

lsy
03-26-2004, 06:07 AM
Yes, I saw that. But he did appear very sorry about that.

As for movement, maybe Andy should consider losing a few pounds, he seems to have "bulked" up a bit too much lately.

Action Jackson
03-26-2004, 06:19 AM
Isy, weight is not the major issue when it comes to playing on clay. Verkerk is a big guy and Andres Gomez was a bit overweight when he won the French against Agassi.

The movement as I explained earlier is a lot different on clay than the other surfaces. Ok, Hewitt is one of the quickest players on the circuit for sure, but he has problems with the movement on clay and has admitted as much. The sliding motion, Hewitt has problems with that for sure and Roddick isn't that quick on his favoured surfaces, so he will have problems trying to turn around and he doesn't have the court positioning to compensate.

lsy
03-26-2004, 08:06 AM
It really is difficult for anybody who's not grown up playing on clay to win one then, isn't it? That obviously is why it's easier for the so called "clay court" player to do better in other surfaces than otherwise since you certainly need more than just the "X" and "O" factors on clay.

I would have assumed weight isn't really the issue on the clay movement, I only said that coz I really thought Andy seems to have put on quite a bit of weight.

JeLuliA88
03-26-2004, 08:15 AM
Hmmm... i honestly doubt it, the surface just doesn't suit his game. But then again 2 years is a long time and i guess anything can happen. If he was to win one, his best chance is probably in Rome where the surface is faster than the others.

Domino
03-26-2004, 10:27 AM
Ginepri will win a major claycourt event before Roddick.

Deboogle!.
03-26-2004, 01:20 PM
Ginepri has to win a MATCH on clay first, let's not get ahead of ourselves :rolleyes:

TennisLurker
03-26-2004, 01:52 PM
I thought they made the clay faster in the french open because of Bruguera, not Muster.

Domino
03-26-2004, 02:22 PM
Bunk, I am serious. I have watched Ginepri, and he is the quickest man I have ever seen sans a 17 year old Chang. On Clay, which he didn't play on last year due to injury, this is a major weapon, especially his ability to recover from a disavantaged position to hit a shot. He knows how to slide on clay as well, from what I have seen, so this year he may do better than all the other Americans in the clay swing. In fact, I will come out and say that he will.

Deboogle!.
03-26-2004, 02:26 PM
I've watched him as well and I like him and I know how fast he is, thanks. That still does not take away from the fact that he has never won an ATP match on clay. Dent hasn't either, for that matter, though I don't think his game is as good on clay as Robby's.

I'm not saying he won't have a good clay season, I'm just stating the fact. You don't have to talk down to me as if I've never seen the sport before.

Domino
03-26-2004, 02:35 PM
Sorry, you must have misinterpreted my remarks. I did not mean to talk down to you, and I am sorry if that is how I came off, because I never meant to tlak as if you never watch tennis.

I know that Ginepri has yet to win a match on clay, but he hasn't had a chance to. Last year he missed the whole clay swing because of injury, and could have made some results to build on this year.

the cat
03-26-2004, 03:40 PM
Becca, Ferrero can win Queens. And Roddick can win Rome. :)

Roddick is still a young tennis player and should be able to improve on his weaknesses.

Leo
03-26-2004, 04:26 PM
Ferrero doesn't play Queens, so no, he won't win there. It's not like he would have a chance even if he went, though.

I agree with Dom, Ginepri could very well be the best American on clay this season. His game suits the clay better than any of his young American counterparts. It's either him or Roddick (Dent, Blake, and Fish don't stand a chance on the dirt), and right now I'd go eith Robby.

Chloe le Bopper
03-26-2004, 04:41 PM
With a good draw, Ferrero could make a semi at Queens where he would be promptly crushed.

NOt that he's going to play there anyways.

Dirk
03-26-2004, 05:20 PM
He nearly beat Hewitt and Mark on grass. That mark loss man it can't get any worse then that. Worst set of his life that 5th. I could see JC in the qrts of Wimbly with the right draw.

Chloe le Bopper
03-26-2004, 05:35 PM
I agree that he would make the Wimbledon quarters with the right draw. He made the fourth round last year and gave Grosjean a match, so I don't see why not.

Fumus
03-26-2004, 06:14 PM
JC will not win a wimlby...so hush with that...

Roddick at RG...maybe in like 2 yrs with some heavy retooling on his game...

Fumus
03-26-2004, 06:16 PM
How did I love Paradorn vote for every choice??

Deboogle!.
03-26-2004, 09:24 PM
b/c Skyler, it's a poll where you can choose multiple options. Want me to go vote for every choice too? lol

misyou25
03-26-2004, 09:44 PM
i think roddick CAN win the french open. this year or never. and david nalbandian will win definetly 2 or more grand slams in his career. maybe juancho will defend his title at the french open this year. but i think he's tired and a bit ill. he won't be fit till then, i guess

Deboogle!.
03-26-2004, 10:10 PM
Andy, French Open, this year???????????????

good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I read that!!!

WyveN
03-27-2004, 12:15 AM
JC will not win a wimlby...so hush with that...

Roddick at RG...maybe in like 2 yrs with some heavy retooling on his game...

I found this post really funny LOL

Action Jackson
03-27-2004, 03:48 AM
Bunk, I am serious. I have watched Ginepri, and he is the quickest man I have ever seen sans a 17 year old Chang. On Clay, which he didn't play on last year due to injury, this is a major weapon, especially his ability to recover from a disavantaged position to hit a shot. He knows how to slide on clay as well, from what I have seen, so this year he may do better than all the other Americans in the clay swing. In fact, I will come out and say that he will.

You are kidding sure he is fast, but he isn't as fast as Coria on any surface and let alone wouldn't move as well as him, or Ferrero on clay.

I will say it now Ginepri will never win a tournament on the stuff in Europe and if he is lucky he will make QFs at best.

Action Jackson
03-27-2004, 03:49 AM
I thought they made the clay faster in the french open because of Bruguera, not Muster.

It was both actually, it was quicker when Muster won it and they sped he surface up even more after he won it.

rassklovn
03-27-2004, 04:06 PM
I found this post really funny LOL

That was a very funny post for sure next Wyver. If Roddick wins RG in 2 yrs, then Fernando Vicente will make the semi finals of Wimbledon.

rassklovn
03-27-2004, 04:08 PM
Ginepri is a hardcourt specialist, yes he won a pissy grass tournament, where hardly anyone plays. For sure he is doing nothing of any note on the clay. It looks like Agassi will be the best hope for any success at RG for American players.

Action Jackson
03-27-2004, 05:21 PM
I am not sure what is funnier the fact that CmonAussie thinks that Hewitt vs Federer in the RG final and Hewitt will win.

Fumus thinking Roddick has the game to win RG in 2 years or Ginepri doing anything resembling significant on clay (SF at a TMS and beating good players ).

If anyone of those things happen the Wimbledon final will be between Fernando Gonzalez and Guille Coria.

J. Corwin
03-27-2004, 09:33 PM
I'd bank on Ginepri making SF of TMS clay event before Roddick wins RG.

Deboogle!.
03-27-2004, 09:40 PM
well Jace come on now, I would bet on a LOT of things that seem unlikely before I'd bet on Andy winning the French Open LMFAO!!!!!!!

J. Corwin
03-27-2004, 11:39 PM
ok..fine. I guess you're right. ;)

Action Jackson
03-28-2004, 05:51 AM
I'd bank on Ginepri making SF of TMS clay event before Roddick wins RG.

I don't see either happening in the near future.

J. Corwin
03-28-2004, 08:54 AM
Yes, but if I HAD to pick one over the other...that would be my choice.

Action Jackson
03-28-2004, 08:59 AM
Good to see you don't live in Fantasy land jackson.

J. Corwin
03-28-2004, 09:26 AM
Did you think I did?

Action Jackson
03-28-2004, 09:40 AM
Did you think I did?

You would be if you think Ginepri is going to do something on clay, or Roddick winning RG in two years, that is fantasy land material, then again not as bad those guys who thought Gonzo would beat Federer 6-0, 6-0.

WyveN
03-28-2004, 11:31 AM
that person thinks Gonzo will do it in Miami as well

Action Jackson
03-28-2004, 11:50 AM
that person thinks Gonzo will do it in Miami as well

They are the best trolls on this board. That thread just keeps going and at least when I am at a Gonzo match I hope I don't see these two.

WyveN
03-28-2004, 12:23 PM
At least they are locked up in the one thread - all hell could break lose if they escape out of there and spread through GM

My guess is that they think this is a Gonzalez forum

J. Corwin
03-28-2004, 08:53 PM
Gonzo played his best in 2002 Cincy. I don't think I've ever seen him play as well since.

WyveN
03-28-2004, 09:50 PM
he was playing well in FO 2003

Action Jackson
03-29-2004, 04:56 AM
Gonzo plays very well on clay, it's just a question of whether he could be bothered half the time.

Seriously the clay season isn't too far away and I am looking forward to seeing whether my comments about Robby " I have Muscles but No Game" Ginepri and Roddick will come back to haunt me or I will be laughing at their ineptitude on clay.

Deboogle!.
03-29-2004, 01:29 PM
Robby " I have Muscles but No Game" Ginepri

Robby's got game, GWH... maybe not a game that's good on clay, but he's got game.

Action Jackson
03-29-2004, 11:07 PM
Robby's got game, GWH... maybe not a game that's good on clay, but he's got game.

Rubbish I have seen him play live a few times and wasn't impressed even with the times he won matches. Granted the first time I saw him he was absolutely rubbish, he built himself up physically and he has plenty of court speed, apart from he has nothing outstanding.

He will do nothing on clay as I said previously, Vince Spadea will be the best performed American on clay this year.

rassklovn
04-01-2004, 10:27 AM
I agree GWH, that Ginepri is overrated and doesn't have much of a game, just plenty of court speed and yes, Vinny Spadea will have the best results over the clay season for American players.

J. Corwin
04-01-2004, 11:22 AM
like brother, like brother

Action Jackson
04-01-2004, 11:25 AM
Don't worry Jackson, he can think for himself and we'll see soon enough whether I am right or eating a massive slice of humble pie.

Ok, would it be surprising if Spadea was the best performed American on clay this year? We are talking about overall results.

FryslanBoppe
04-05-2004, 07:06 AM
The claycourt season isn't too far away now, and it will be interesting to see how much Roddick really has improved his game. I think many of his supporters are talking up his chances of doing well on this part of the circuit, though I am not convinced.

Granted he has won clay titles before, but none of them have been big ones or respected events like Barcelona, though to be fair he hasn't played there yet, though he should.

The weaknesses he has will be exploited more on clay than the other surfaces, like the lack of movement, and it will interesting to see if he can construct points better on the clay now than previously, as he will have to be expecting the ball to be coming back more often from his serve and groundstrokes.

I don't think he will win a major claycourt within 2 years, so the answer is no.

J. Corwin
04-05-2004, 09:54 AM
Ok, would it be surprising if Spadea was the best performed American on clay this year? We are talking about overall results.

Depends on how you look at overall results.

Vass
04-05-2004, 12:00 PM
I think Roddick improved and has a (long) shot at winning something. It would be curius to see how he performs. Maybe he's going to win something this year coz only a few people seem to be in good form.

I just have one question: how come Americans don't like clay so much. How come even Pete Samprass wasn't able to pllay well on it?

Dirk
04-05-2004, 12:46 PM
Pete won Rome and made the RG qrts and semi. He could play on it but not great, still his RG run in 96 was great.

Deboogle!.
04-05-2004, 02:46 PM
Because there aren't as many clay courts here, especially clay of the kind used in Europe. Very few places here have it, so they just don't get to play on it.

Dirk, I don't think many Andy fans said we were confident he was going to win a title, but in the 4 required clay events, I am expecting Andy to do better than he did last year, that's all. Not win a title, but maybe win more matches than he loses? lol

zoltan83
04-05-2004, 03:24 PM
Clay isn't the best surface for Roddick. But he is able to improve his game on the clay court.

So winning a Major Clay Title this year, I don't think so. But in the future, yeah well, I think he will able to win a Major Clay Tournament.

J. Corwin
04-05-2004, 10:48 PM
I still think he can win Houston. ;)

Aphex
04-05-2004, 11:36 PM
I'm obviously the only one who thinks Roddick's running-around-behind-the-baseline-to-come-in-for-the-big-forehand-kill game should be fit for clay-courts. He surely needs to improve his movement and patience, and he will never have the touch of Coria or Moya, but Ferrrero hasn't got that great touch, and Gonzalez and Moya haven't got that great backhands; so why shouldn't it be possible for the Rod to have one or two big red clay wins in his career? He'll probably win Rome AMS(TMS? Super 9?) and have at least one great, SF or F, but not likely W, run at RG, before he retires. But in two years? I don't know. This year I think he will reach a clay AMS SF, and R16 or QF at RG.
Ok, IMHO. Now, go ahead :smash: me. Or :armed: me. I don't care :drink: :smoke:

Deboogle!.
04-06-2004, 12:00 AM
No, you're not the only one to say that, actually. I've read several places that Andy's game is suited better to clay than his prior results suggest. For him, I think it's more the patience (which he's really improved over the last months with Brad anyway) and also just between the ears. He's just plain not comfortable on the stuff, especially away from home. This is why I expect him to actually improve his results. If I thought it was that his game was just really poorly suited to the surface, then I don't think I'd be nearly as optimistic because there's less one can do about that type of thing than the more intangible stuff.

Aphex
04-06-2004, 12:30 AM
The guy is raised on hardcourts and green-clay, and I've read on a swedish coaches/players forum that it's the surface beneath the clay stuff that is decisive when it comes to speed and ball-bounce of the court rather than if the stuff on it is green or red. Hence there is more of a difference between e.g. Rome and Hamburg than there is between e.g. Houston and RG. And I've read somewhere that Ferrero was raised more on hardcourts than on red clay( this I can't verify), obviously JC has competed more on clay than Andy, but I agree Roddick's lack of clay-court success is mainly an experience and secondly a confidence... uhmm... thingy :drink:

Deboogle!.
04-06-2004, 12:34 AM
yea he did grow up playing green clay a lot. His first two titles were back-to-back on green and red clay when he was ranked outside the top 100 in fact.

the Houston courts are not different really at all from the RG courts... did anyone say they were? The Houston website is very adamant that they use the exact same surface. From what I've heard it has to be treated a little differently because of the ridiculous humidity here in Houston, but other than that, it's not made to be faster than RG or anything. But I was always under the impression green clay is usually a lot faster than red clay. but what would I know? Not much!

Andy will never be great on clay, to be sure. And he'll almost surely never win RG, but as he gets more confident that he CAN play on the stuff, and as he continues to fill in the holes in his game (mainly returns, movement, and his backhand when we're talking about clay), that should all help as well.

Aphex
04-06-2004, 12:35 AM
Ok, Houston is on red clay, but there are no green-clay ATP tournies anymore. Maybe this week's Houston exo is on green? :smoke:

Action Jackson
04-06-2004, 12:39 AM
Hei Aphex, yes it's true that Ferrero was raised on hardcourts, but most of all the tournaments he was playing in Spain were on clay, and he trained on the clay as well.

Yes, it's experience that doesn't help Roddick in this, but he really needs to improve his court movement specifically on the surface, plus I am not sure about his temperament either.

Rome/Hamburg well the weather makes a difference, being warmer helps make the court quicker, which way the people have been instructed to sweep the court helps change the surface believe it or not. Hamburg has more clay laid down and raining more makes it slower than Rome.

You are not the only one, but it's about time he improved his results away from North America, and the time begins now.

Action Jackson
04-06-2004, 12:40 AM
Ok, Houston is on red clay, but there are no green-clay ATP tournies anymore. Maybe this week's Houston exo is on green? :smoke:

No more tournaments on the faster green clay anymore, not like in Boston.

Aphex
04-06-2004, 12:43 AM
Personally I know nothing about nothing, but I've heard the female ex-player swedish Eurosport commentator say that WTA green-clay tournies in Amelia Island and Charleston are more similar in pace to RG and Rome, than the latter are to Berlin and Hamburg. And the reason is in America and RG/Rome the surface beneath the clay stuff is cement. I don't know what it is in Germany though, maybe it's mud :shrug:

Action Jackson
04-06-2004, 12:47 AM
It would make sense that underneath surface would be sand as that would have better drainage and have the ability to play longer in the rain.

I remember the semi final of the Italian Open between Lendl and Carlsson got held up because of rain, and they couldn't dry the court. So what they did, they used kerosene on the court and set it alight and had the fire trucks awaiting to make sure it didn't get out of hand.

It worked and got the court dry and unfortunately Kent lost.

Aphex
04-06-2004, 12:47 AM
Hej George WH,
sorry missed your first post. But I guess the weather is a factor in the Regen(?)baum ;)

Tennis Fool
04-06-2004, 12:48 AM
I love green clay :yeah:

Action Jackson
04-06-2004, 12:50 AM
Green clay is pseudo-clay and it's too fast, lol.

Aphex
04-06-2004, 01:04 AM
It would make sense that underneath surface would be sand as that would have better drainage and have the ability to play longer in the rain.

I remember the semi final of the Italian Open between Lendl and Carlsson got held up because of rain, and they couldn't dry the court. So what they did, they used kerosene on the court and set it alight and had the fire trucks awaiting to make sure it didn't get out of hand.

It worked and got the court dry and unfortunately Kent lost.

:D Viva Italia! Bad at organising, good at improvising! :smoke:

TennisLurker
04-06-2004, 01:07 AM
I like the pseudo green clay!!!
it was a funny surface

I miss atlanta!!

Deboogle!.
04-06-2004, 02:11 AM
Ok, Houston is on red clay, but there are no green-clay ATP tournies anymore. Maybe this week's Houston exo is on green? :smoke:

LOL.. no, it's on red clay I believe. And anyway Andy's never played. Novak is the highest player there this week.

Action Jackson
04-06-2004, 04:39 AM
I like the pseudo green clay!!!
it was a funny surface

I miss atlanta!!

It's rubbish, but I actually miss the Boston tournament it had Wilander and Muster amongst the people that had won the tournament.

TennisLurker
04-06-2004, 05:51 AM
Ive never played on green clay

Have any of you played on that stuff?

Action Jackson
04-06-2004, 07:20 AM
Ive never played on green clay

Have any of you played on that stuff?

Yes, I played it once luckily I had a friend who was a member of this club and I was able to play as a guest.

It's quicker than the proper stuff, but slower than a hardcourt, from what I noticed it's made of different stuff the red clay is made of brick dust, natural clay and other materials and then laid down, whereas the green clay is usually natural or mixed in with stone and then made into a subsurface which is topped.

J. Corwin
04-06-2004, 07:26 AM
I haven't. I wish they still have at least one or two tournaments on the stuff though. It's nice to have more variety.

Action Jackson
04-06-2004, 07:36 AM
The best ever tournament on green clay was held in Boston, within the 12 yr history it had 4 French Open winners, finalists and semi finalists. Houston wishes it could come close to having a list of winners like this. This from the the last winner to the first.

1989 Andres Gomez (ECU) def. Mats Wilander (SWE) 6-1 6-4
1988 Thomas Muster (AUT) def. Lawson Duncan (USA) 6-2 6-2
1987 Mats Wilander (SWE) def. Kent Carlsson (SWE) 7-6 6-1
1986 Andres Gomez (ECU) def. Martin Jaite (ARG) 7-5 6-4
1985 Mats Wilander (SWE) def. Martin Jaite (ARG) 6-2 6-4
1984 Aaron Krickstein (USA) def. Jose-Luis Clerc (ARG) 7-6 3-6 6-4
1983 Jose-Luis Clerc (ARG) def. Jimmy Arias (USA) 6-3 6-1
1982 Guillermo Vilas (ARG) def. Mel Purcell (USA) 6-4 6-0
1981 Jose-Luis Clerc (ARG) def. Hans Gildemeister (CHI) 0-6 6-2 6-2
1980 Eddie Dibbs (USA) def. Gene Mayer (USA) 6-2 6-1
1979 Jose Higueras (ESP) def. Hans Gildemeister (CHI) 6-3 6-1
1978 Manuel Orantes (ESP) def. Harold Solomon (USA) 6-4 6-3
1977 Manuel Orantes (ESP) def. Eddie Dibbs (USA) 7-6 7-5 6-4

FryslanBoppe
04-14-2004, 10:04 AM
The best ever tournament on green clay was held in Boston, within the 12 yr history it had 4 French Open winners, finalists and semi finalists. Houston wishes it could come close to having a list of winners like this. This from the the last winner to the first.

1989 Andres Gomez (ECU) def. Mats Wilander (SWE) 6-1 6-4
1988 Thomas Muster (AUT) def. Lawson Duncan (USA) 6-2 6-2
1987 Mats Wilander (SWE) def. Kent Carlsson (SWE) 7-6 6-1
1986 Andres Gomez (ECU) def. Martin Jaite (ARG) 7-5 6-4
1985 Mats Wilander (SWE) def. Martin Jaite (ARG) 6-2 6-4
1984 Aaron Krickstein (USA) def. Jose-Luis Clerc (ARG) 7-6 3-6 6-4
1983 Jose-Luis Clerc (ARG) def. Jimmy Arias (USA) 6-3 6-1
1982 Guillermo Vilas (ARG) def. Mel Purcell (USA) 6-4 6-0
1981 Jose-Luis Clerc (ARG) def. Hans Gildemeister (CHI) 0-6 6-2 6-2
1980 Eddie Dibbs (USA) def. Gene Mayer (USA) 6-2 6-1
1979 Jose Higueras (ESP) def. Hans Gildemeister (CHI) 6-3 6-1
1978 Manuel Orantes (ESP) def. Harold Solomon (USA) 6-4 6-3
1977 Manuel Orantes (ESP) def. Eddie Dibbs (USA) 7-6 7-5 6-4

It looks like that they should bring that tournament back. The thing I am looking forward to seeing is that Roddick will probably do well in Houston, and then all the hype will start about how he is going to do better on European clay, then it will amount to nothing.

If he makes a TMS QF then that should be almost deemed as a victory.

Deboogle!.
04-14-2004, 01:39 PM
If he makes a TMS QF then that should be almost deemed as a victory.

awwwwww then Andy's ALREADY won a clay TMS title!! :aparty:

Chloe le Bopper
04-14-2004, 06:27 PM
He usually wins a few rounds in at least one of them, doesn't he? He's made the semis in Rome before.. that was a couple years ago. 2002? Did he win a couple rounds in one last year too?

Deboogle!.
04-14-2004, 07:01 PM
He usually wins a few rounds in at least one of them, doesn't he? He's made the semis in Rome before.. that was a couple years ago. 2002? Did he win a couple rounds in one last year too?

Yes, semis in Rome 2002 (hence why I joked that he's already won one based on FryslanBoppe's statement ;)).

Last year was pretty bad. let's see. yea.... not good



Monte Carlo TMS, Monaco
Tennis Masters Series, 4/14/2003, O, Clay , Draw: 64
R64 Portas, Albert (ESP ) 107 6-7(5) 3-6

Rome TMS, Italy
Tennis Masters Series, 5/5/2003, O, Clay , Draw: 64
R64 Gaudenzi, Andrea (ITA ) 100 6-2 6-3
R32 Verkerk, Martin (NED ) 54 7-6(6) 3-6 4-6

Hamburg TMS, Germany
Tennis Masters Series, 5/12/2003, O, Clay , Draw: 64
R64 Ljubicic, Ivan (CRO ) 25 6-4 6-4
R32 Calleri, Agustin (ARG ) 11 6-3 2-6 3-6

Devotee
04-14-2004, 07:11 PM
Yes, I played it once luckily I had a friend who was a member of this club and I was able to play as a guest.

It's quicker than the proper stuff, but slower than a hardcourt, from what I noticed it's made of different stuff the red clay is made of brick dust, natural clay and other materials and then laid down, whereas the green clay is usually natural or mixed in with stone and then made into a subsurface which is topped.


Does green clay stick to one's shoes like red clay does?

Also, can players slide on green as much as red?

tangerine_dream
04-14-2004, 08:00 PM
Does green clay stick to one's shoes like red clay does?

Also, can players slide on green as much as red?

From tennis server:

Red clay is composed of crushed brick that is spread on top of a natural base. Red clay courts in the U.S are truly red because the bricks in the U.S. are red. However, in Europe and in much of South America, the "red" clay courts actually appear somewhat orange. This is because the clay used to make the bricks in these areas is different from that in the U.S. Yet, despite the color difference, red and orange clay courts play very similarly.

Green clay is actually what is called Har-Tru (a brand name for the clay used to surface these courts). Har-Tru courts are usually placed on top of a natural base. Sometimes, these green clay courts are automatically watered by underground systems.

All clay courts require regular watering to prevent them from becoming dusty and sandy (this is why you don’t see many clay courts in the arid parts of the world). To help these courts retain moisture, calcium is periodically placed on the court. The clay itself inflicts havoc upon string longevity. However, when you put calcium on the court, the strings are even more likely to snap. If you like to play with natural gut, clay is going to increase the amount of money you need to keep string in your racquets. For this reason, I recommend that you string your racquets with synthetic gut, which is much more likely to endure the ravages of clay and calcium.

Red (and orange) clay courts play very slowly. It is very difficult to hit winners on a red clay court. The clay slows the ball down to a point that your opponent has a better than average chance of being able to get to the ball to make a reply. In addition, red clay courts make the ball bounce higher than hardcourts. This is why so many of the South American and European (where clay courts out number hardcourts) players have Western forehand grips. The Western forehand grip was made for the high bouncing ball.

Any kind of spin is exaggerated on a red clay court. Topspin bounces higher, kick serves jump out and out ferociously, slice stays low and at times it just dies. Flat shots are relatively useless on a red clay court. The "spin master" is at a great advantage on clay.

Green clay courts are similar to red clay courts. However, the balls do not bounce quite as high, the surface is a bit faster (winners are more possible) and sometimes the ball will actually skip a bit when you hit with slice. The big serve can still be useful on green clay, but it is not quite the weapon it is on hardcourts.

Footwork on clay courts (either red or green) is a bit more difficult than it is on hardcourts. It is extremely difficult to change directions quickly on clay court. Usually, the quick change results in slipping, and a resulting delay.

Many clay court players slide into their shots. This is not bad, but it is not necessary. One can run to the ball just as well as one can slide to the ball on clay surfaces. There may be some benefit in sliding with respect to stopping your motion to change direction, but it is not so significant that one needs to slide. I taught myself to slide on clay, but have abandoned the practice. Having a weak right ankle, which I have turned more than I would like to recall, I don’t slide anymore. If one slides on a clay surface that is not well groomed and maintained, it is possible to hit a small rock or to encounter a "packed" area. This can cause one to turn an ankle…believe me I know!

If you do want to learn to slide on clay, it is really easy. First, practice at home by sliding on a slippery floor while wearing only socks on your feet. Clay is not this slippery, but this will give you the basic idea. You simply run, and then, you stop and slide. Once you have mastered the at home sliding, go to a clay court and practice sliding on the clay near the back fence or curtain. Here, the clay is more likely to be cooperative. Simply run, stop and slide. After five or six tries, you will have it down. Incorporating the slide as a natural part of your game, however, will take a bit more time.

The type of shoe you wear can make a big difference with respect to your footing on clay. Most manufacturers of shoes have models that are specifically designed for playing on clay (often times, they are a popular model with a differently patterned sole). You don’t want to wear shoes with worn soles…you will certainly be unable to move well. Finally, you will want to tap out the clay that builds up in your shoes’ soles in between each point. You want tread for traction, but you want a tread pattern that permits sliding.

Clay courts show the wear of play. As you play, the court develops ruts, gullies, soft spots, dusty areas, etc. This is why the pro tournaments have grounds people sweep the court during every game changeover. This is usually impossible for the recreational or local tournament player. However, it is important to keep you eye open for any court irregularities. Try to smooth these out with your foot as soon as you see them. Believe me, there can be some major imperfections around the baselines as a match unfolds. Should the ball hit any irregularity, it is likely to bounce in an unpredictable manner…which increases the likelihood of an error.

Clay is the only surface in tennis where you can actually look at the bounce marks to determine whether a ball was in or out. Remember, if any part of the mark left by a ball is touching a line (when there is no visible space between the make and the line)…the ball is in. However, disputes on calls still arise because not all players know how to read the marks correctly. I always use the golden rule of tennis…if you are in doubt about a call, the ball was in!!!

Finally, the lines on clay courts are really plastic strips that are actually nailed into place. When a ball hits one of these lines, it really skips. Always keep your eye out for elevate nails on the lines. Once in a while, a nail will not be all the way down. These raised nails can make for unbelievable bounces, and they can actually trip players. I usually carry a hammer in my bag when I play on clay.

FryslanBoppe
04-14-2004, 11:03 PM
awwwwww then Andy's ALREADY won a clay TMS title!! :aparty:

Almost will never be the same as winning one.

FryslanBoppe
04-14-2004, 11:11 PM
Does green clay stick to one's shoes like red clay does?

Also, can players slide on green as much as red?

Tangerine gave you a detailed explanation but never actually answered the question.

No, it doesn't stick as much and as for sliding well it's harder to slide on the green stuff but it's still very common.

J. Corwin
04-15-2004, 12:08 AM
Almost will never be the same as winning one.

No really, sherlock?

Action Jackson
04-15-2004, 12:19 AM
No really, sherlock?

Who is sherlock?

Action Jackson
04-15-2004, 12:33 AM
Does green clay stick to one's shoes like red clay does?

Also, can players slide on green as much as red?

Yes, they can slide as much on green as well as red, I prefer the footing on a red/orange claycourt than I did on the pseudo clay.

Btw, thanks for the link Tangerinus. It was something that I already knew, but it's good that it was explained in easy terms.

Then again there are many ways of changing the speed of a clay court. One it depends on how much clay they lay down, the less it is the quicker it is, another one is the weather in rainy places and plenty of watering it's slower for example Hamburg. Whereas in Rome it's quicker mainly due to the heat, even with the regular watering, then again using a ligher ball quickens the play on clay. Also the way the court is swept changes the court speed.

J. Corwin
04-15-2004, 12:43 AM
Who is sherlock?

detective Sherlock Holmes

Action Jackson
04-15-2004, 12:44 AM
detective Sherlock Holmes

That guy I didn't know he was a detective.

J. Corwin
04-15-2004, 12:48 AM
That guy I didn't know he was a detective.

Well we learn new things everyday, don't we? Well some of us do.

Action Jackson
04-15-2004, 12:55 AM
Well we learn new things everyday, don't we? Well some of us do.

Thank you for your incisive comments as usual, it's always a benefit to have knowledge expanded on and thank you for informing about me about Sherlock Holmes, I feel liberated that my mind is expanding to take in new things.

J. Corwin
04-15-2004, 06:44 PM
Thank you for your incisive comments as usual, it's always a benefit to have knowledge expanded on and thank you for informing about me about Sherlock Holmes, I feel liberated that my mind is expanding to take in new things.

You're welcome. I enjoy in sharing my knowledge with you.

Action Jackson
04-16-2004, 02:34 AM
You're welcome. I enjoy in sharing my knowledge with you.

Thank you jackson

Action Jackson
04-18-2004, 06:12 AM
Well Monte Carlo begins tomorrow and here comes the time where the test truly starts and see if he can improve on his ordinary results.

blueriver
04-18-2004, 01:33 PM
haha..interesting topic..I believe he can win a major clay title soon...I just chose Rome...I believe he can do well in his favourite city :) yup, Let''s see

FryslanBoppe
04-18-2004, 01:49 PM
haha..interesting topic..I believe he can win a major clay title soon...I just chose Rome...I believe he can do well in his favourite city :) yup, Let''s see

Wouldn't somewhere in the USA be his favourite city? Anyway, as the song says it's time for Roddick to follow this path "A Little Less Conversation A Bit More Action" . When it comes to proving the sceptics wrong.

I don't see the results improving too radically this season.

Deboogle!.
04-18-2004, 02:09 PM
I don't see the results improving too radically this season.

Me either. Not if he's so exhausted and doesn't even wanna be there. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr to Andy for not pulling out of Monte Carlo grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

WyveN
04-18-2004, 02:11 PM
If Roddick didn't want to be in Monte Carlo he would pull out. If he was to tired he would pull out.

FryslanBoppe
04-18-2004, 02:14 PM
As I posted on another post, he was fully aware of the schedule that he was going to play.

Gilbert and Roddick would have worked it out, and at this stage of the year. It would be obvious that they would be in the latter stages of the tournaments, then again he is young and should have a good enough base to cope with the workload.

If he is that tired, he should have pulled out and tiredness isn't a good enough reason if he turns up to play and gets beaten early. It will be his own responsibility and no one elses.

Deboogle!.
04-18-2004, 02:15 PM
He doesn't want to play. He's basically said as much to a stadium full of people. but he knows he should. He doesn't like skipping the required events, you can just tell .That doesn't mean he should play though, it means the people around him should've told him to take the week off.

But like I said in the other thread - really it will make everyone happy because he will lose early, so the people who want to see him lose and who want to see his poor results on clay continue will do that and those of us who want to see him get time off will get what we want too. It's a win-win really :)

J. Corwin
04-18-2004, 07:25 PM
He doesn't want to play. He's basically said as much to a stadium full of people. but he knows he should. He doesn't like skipping the required events, you can just tell .That doesn't mean he should play though, it means the people around him should've told him to take the week off.

But like I said in the other thread - really it will make everyone happy because he will lose early, so the people who want to see him lose and who want to see his poor results on clay continue will do that and those of us who want to see him get time off will get what we want too. It's a win-win really :)

Speak for yourself. :o;)

I still prefer for him to play well and go deep.

Deboogle!.
04-19-2004, 12:06 AM
well yes, Jace, obviously... but is that feasible? as I said somewhere else, after seeing him try his hardest today and have nothing to give, it just reaffirms everything I've already said. If I thought he would be able to go deep at MC, especially with the particular draw he has, I'd say YEAH LET's GO! But it's just not realistic at all lol

J. Corwin
04-19-2004, 01:15 AM
Well he's virtually pulled out of MC now anyway, so yea.;) lol

star
04-19-2004, 01:24 AM
If Roddick didn't want to be in Monte Carlo he would pull out. If he was to tired he would pull out.

I guess he took your advice. :)

Alan
04-19-2004, 10:02 AM
In two years... that is still a lot of tennis, and roddick can still improve within that period, that's why i said yes,

but for now, it seems unlikely

UseTheSearchTool
09-29-2004, 03:31 AM
Bump

It doesn't matter the amount of spin doctoring some Roddick fans will put on about his claycourt abilities, he seems to have regressed when it comes to playing on the clay.

His best results came early in his career and he hasn't done anything of note outside of the N.Am clay events which any self-respecting claycourt player doesn't play. St Pölten doesn't count and not with the field in that year either.

In December, it's actually a time where he has to play top players on clay, as he doesn't win enough matches during the season to meet them in tournament play, and it will be interesting to see his development.

As for winning a major claycourt title within 2 years, the first year has past and I don't see him having any major success in 2005.

Dirk
09-29-2004, 03:35 AM
Andy will never win a clay master and/or RG. Then again there are many great clay players who will win have a shot at winning Oz, Wimbly, US Open, and the outdoor/indoor masters.

UseTheSearchTool
09-29-2004, 03:39 AM
Andy will never win a clay master and/or RG. Then again there are many great clay players who will win have a shot at winning Oz, Wimbly, US Open, and the outdoor/indoor masters.

Edberg and Stich both won a TMS on clay and made a final of the French, Becker in spite of never winning a clay title he made 3 RG SFs and TMS finals, Sampras for all his problems managed to win one as well.

The word great gets thrown around too easily these days and there are only really a handful of true greats.

Domino
09-29-2004, 03:51 AM
Edberg, Stich, Becker, and Sampras were better on clay than Roddick is, and ever will be.

UseTheSearchTool
09-29-2004, 03:54 AM
Edberg, Stich, Becker, and Sampras were better on clay than Roddick is, and ever will be.

This is very true, but the way some Roddick fans go on about him, you would think he was as good as them on that surface. If he had a career as good as any of them, then he could be classified as great.

Actually I don't think he will ever win a major claycourt title unlike the above mentioned or even match Becker's achievements.

Deboogle!.
09-29-2004, 03:58 AM
It doesn't matter the amount of spin doctoring some Roddick fans will put on about his claycourt abilities, he seems to have regressed when it comes to playing on the clay.

Find me a Roddick fan on this board who is pleased with his results and the way he plays on clay, I'll pay you.

PerezRoldan
09-29-2004, 06:04 AM
Find me a Roddick fan on this board who is pleased with his results and the way he plays on clay, I'll pay you.

Any reasonable fan would say that, but at the same time it is continually brought up about all the claycourt titles Andy has won and is used as a defence mechanism when his claycourt game has been questioned.

He needs to improve in the tougher fields and I don't think he has the will to do so.

Originally posted by Domino
Edberg, Stich, Becker, and Sampras were better on clay than Roddick is, and ever will be.

No arguments at all from me on this comment.

Dirk
09-29-2004, 06:37 AM
Those guys were great and knew how to play on clay. Since then so many Tier 1 level clay players have come up. They all could move well on clay too. I'm just defending Andy by saying people on the opposite side of the tennis sphere have limits as well. Not being great on clay doesn't look good on your resume but there are worse fates.

Zetlandsk
09-29-2004, 06:50 AM
Those guys were great and knew how to play on clay. Since then so many Tier 1 level clay players have come up. They all could move well on clay too. I'm just defending Andy by saying people on the opposite side of the tennis sphere have limits as well. Not being great on clay doesn't look good on your resume but there are worse fates.

The thing is those players apart from Sampras had to play for a large part of the year on clay as junior players, so it's understandable that they know how to move better than say Andy as an example.

At the same time there were many very good players on clay then as well Dirk. Yes, they are opposite sides of the sphere, but don't the very best have success on all surfaces, and as for difference well Wilander still gets disrespected because he never won Wimbledon, while that isn't the same for Edberg.

To the original question I don't think he'll ever win a major title on clay.

Dirk
09-29-2004, 07:01 AM
I agree. Andy will be like Becker or worse on the clay. Becker still gets a lot of respect for his RG results. I don't see Andy matching even him. Wilander probably wouldn't have be thought of lower than Edberg had he not lost his will after 88. Edberg gets a lot of praise because of his beautiful game. Sampras in my mind never had to be ashamed of not winning RG since he was primary a S&V player therefore it makes sense for him to be RGless. Andy is an baseliner so if he wins all the other slams (which I think he will) and not RG or at least a clay master. NOW THAT WILL BE BAD!! :eek:

Zetlandsk
09-29-2004, 07:06 AM
The thing about Becker is he wasn't that bad on clay and he made some finals and lost to some very good clay players and I don't think Andy will be able to match that.

Wilander has won Slams on 3 different surfaces something Edberg never did, but that's another story. Sampras well his career speaks for itself really and his own negativity contributed to his lack of RG success.

I just don't see how Roddick can win it. He would need it to be hot every day of the tournament, need 2 cushy early round matches and have a favourable draw. The only way he could win one is have Robredo in the final.

Dirk
09-29-2004, 07:09 AM
:rolls: That would never happen. I could see andy making the qrts a few times if he has a normal length career but that is it.

Ferrero Forever
09-29-2004, 07:11 AM
If everybody suddenly comes down with the chicken-pox, sure why not? ;)
you only get the chicken pox once, ferrero already had them so i say NO WAY. Just look at the competition

Zetlandsk
09-29-2004, 07:11 AM
Dirk, I am just trying to look at the task from as many angles as possible, and that would be the best scenario for Andy.

I mean Robredo could lead 2 sets to love and 2 breaks, and he would still lose to Andy on clay.

Dirk
09-29-2004, 07:16 AM
Andy just doesn't have the belief he can really improve on that surface. Like Becky said. Andy is contend with being a fave on hardcourts and grass. He won't put in the work to get better.

Zetlandsk
09-29-2004, 07:23 AM
Andy just doesn't have the belief he can really improve on that surface. Like Becky said. Andy is contend with being a fave on hardcourts and grass. He won't put in the work to get better.

A few people have said that and it's true, then again he probably doesn't see the need to do it either, so that could be another factor.

Dirk
09-29-2004, 07:26 AM
If he could maintain his ranking without clay success then why do it?? Nobody will respect him for it but as if he really cares. I don't see him getting better on clay as long as he is with Brad. Brad is not exactly the best influence you want to have during the clay season.

Fedex
09-29-2004, 10:09 PM
I agree. Andy will be like Becker or worse on the clay. Becker still gets a lot of respect for his RG results. I don't see Andy matching even him. Wilander probably wouldn't have be thought of lower than Edberg had he not lost his will after 88. Edberg gets a lot of praise because of his beautiful game. Sampras in my mind never had to be ashamed of not winning RG since he was primary a S&V player therefore it makes sense for him to be RGless. Andy is an baseliner so if he wins all the other slams (which I think he will) and not RG or at least a clay master. NOW THAT WILL BE BAD!! :eek:
Andy may not be a S&V, but that doesnt change the fact that he doesnt have the right game for clay. He is a baseliner, but not a patient one with any weapons to do damge on clay. It will suprise me, if Roddick did manage to win a clay master, which wont be happening.

SLICK
09-29-2004, 10:56 PM
He has no chance in Monte Carlo if he even bothers to turn up as it is way too early in the clay season, and he probably wants to put his feet up in the USA a bit longer after Miami. He has no chance in Hamburg because the cold weather there makes the clay so slow and the balls so heavy, that he wont even want to hang around for the 2nd match. He could win the Italian like Sampras once did if it stays hot and sunny all week, and he somehow does not face a top 20 clay court player. Unlikely. :cool:

Iheartandy&roger
09-30-2004, 01:37 AM
Of course he could anything is possible and Andy is bound to its only a matter of time.

Fedex
09-30-2004, 01:42 AM
Of course he could anything is possible and Andy is bound to its only a matter of time.
It will take ALOT of luck for Andy to win a masters, the only one he has an outside-outside chance of winning is Rome. Hamburg, MC, and RG you can forget about it, as he will never win any of those, and probably never go very far in any.

WyveN
09-30-2004, 02:00 AM
Many players (even top players like Coria and Roddick) can go through their careers while being average at best on their weakest surface, if it doesn't bother them then all power to them.
We all know their limitations and so do they.

Chloe le Bopper
09-30-2004, 02:03 AM
Many players (even top players like Coria and Roddick) can go through their careers while being average at best on their weakest surface, if it doesn't bother them then all power to them.
We all know their limitations and so do they.
Please don't put Coria and Roddick in the same group. Coria knows his weaknesses, he is not content with them, and has been doing everything he can to improve upon them. Yes, he lost early at Wimbledon, he not before doing well in the warmup. By even playing two warmups after losing that RG final says a lot about his character. Roddick has never indicated to me that he's willing to make the same sort of effort in Europe on clay. If he changes his tune next season, then good for him. I'll throw him some props for it if it happens.

Chloe le Bopper
09-30-2004, 02:05 AM
He has no chance in Monte Carlo if he even bothers to turn up as it is way too early in the clay season, and he probably wants to put his feet up in the USA a bit longer after Miami. He has no chance in Hamburg because the cold weather there makes the clay so slow and the balls so heavy, that he wont even want to hang around for the 2nd match. He could win the Italian like Sampras once did if it stays hot and sunny all week, and he somehow does not face a top 20 clay court player. Unlikely. :cool:
He might want to steer clear of Wayne Arthurs too ;)

Chloe le Bopper
09-30-2004, 02:06 AM
If he could maintain his ranking without clay success then why do it?? Nobody will respect him for it but as if he really cares. I don't see him getting better on clay as long as he is with Brad. Brad is not exactly the best influence you want to have during the clay season.
Are you trying to tell me that he isn't losing sleep over my lack of respect for him? Blasphemy! I'm really important, damnit!

Fedex
09-30-2004, 02:12 AM
So true, Rebecca. Coria may not be my favourite player, but atleast he really wants to improve his weaknesses, like on grass, where he did suprisingly make a final(beating Ancic, who's no slouch on grass, who made the semis at Wimby). Whereas with Roddick, he has shown no interest in playing in European clay events to improve his game, rather he'd play Houston, where if you're lucky there's a couple of clay courters in the draw. I admire Coria for atleast attempting to improve, Roddick doesnt seem to keen on improving on clay.

WyveN
09-30-2004, 02:15 AM
Please don't put Coria and Roddick in the same group. Coria knows his weaknesses, he is not content with them, and has been doing everything he can to improve upon them. Yes, he lost early at Wimbledon, he not before doing well in the warmup. By even playing two warmups after losing that RG final says a lot about his character. Roddick has never indicated to me that he's willing to make the same sort of effort in Europe on clay. If he changes his tune next season, then good for him. I'll throw him some props for it if it happens.


In 2002/2003 Roddick played all the TMS events, FO plus several warmups.

Chloe le Bopper
09-30-2004, 02:17 AM
Coria has said himself that if he wants to be able to compete with Federer in the rankings, he has to play well all year round on all surfaces. Cleaning up on his "money surface" isn't enough. Of course, it's worth noting that Coria is at a disadvantage to Roddick in that Roddick's "money surface" happens to have more big tournaments played on it.

Fedex
09-30-2004, 02:17 AM
European clay warmups are what counts, imo. If he plays more European clay warmup events next season, I'll give him some props, even if he loses badly at them. Playing Houston wont count, I dont count that. He needs to play, where there's atleast a relatively strong field.

Fedex
09-30-2004, 02:18 AM
Coria has said himself that if he wants to be able to compete with Federer in the rankings, he has to play well all year round on all surfaces. Cleaning up on his "money surface" isn't enough. Of course, it's worth noting that Coria is at a disadvantage to Roddick in that Roddick's "money surface" happens to have more big tournaments played on it.
Great post. :worship: :worship:

Chloe le Bopper
09-30-2004, 02:19 AM
In 2002/2003 Roddick played all the TMS events, FO plus several warmups.
I'm not going to give him a round of applause for playing the required events. Isn't the only warmup he's played that wasn't Houston or Atlanta the one that he won in Europe? I forget what it was called. Remind me who he beat to win that? A retiring Krajicek, Davydenko, and? Remind me how he's made an effort to alter his game to succeed on clay, like Coria has tried for fastcourts? It looks to me like he simply found a "Houston" in Europe and played it. Again... he's not getting a round of applause from me.

Chloe le Bopper
09-30-2004, 02:21 AM
European clay warmups are what counts, imo. If he plays more European clay warmup events next season, I'll give him some props, even if he loses badly at them. Playing Houston wont count, I dont count that. He needs to play, where there's atleast a relatively strong field.
While I don't blame him for playing Houston and not wanting to stay in Europe for two months, I don't give him props for taking the easy route. That's what I was trying to say in my previous post. Sticking to the easy road which has resulted in no overall improvement in the past several years doesn't indicate "effort" to me.

WyveN
09-30-2004, 02:23 AM
European clay warmups are what counts, imo. If he plays more European clay warmup events next season, I'll give him some props, even if he loses badly at them.

In 2002 Roddick played on clay virtually every week including world team cup in Germany. In 2003 he went to St Poelten which is very weak but obviously in Europe.

WyveN
09-30-2004, 02:27 AM
I'm not going to give him a round of applause for playing the required events. Isn't the only warmup he's played that wasn't Houston or Atlanta the one that he won in Europe? I forget what it was called. Remind me who he beat to win that? A retiring Krajicek, Davydenko, and? Remind me how he's made an effort to alter his game to succeed on clay, like Coria has tried for fastcourts? It looks to me like he simply found a "Houston" in Europe and played it. Again... he's not getting a round of applause from me.

In 2002 he played world team cup where you are guranteed 3 clay matches.
In 2003 he could have went to Barcelona in his off week but then he would end up playing for 2 months consecutively on clay.

All I am saying is that Roddick has a lot of limitations on clay, but apart from this year there is not much he could have done to improve that through scheduling.

Chloe le Bopper
09-30-2004, 02:28 AM
I stand corrected - I had forgotten World Team Cup.

Fedex
09-30-2004, 02:29 AM
Well 2002 was awhile ago, wasnt it?? If he does it next year, I'll give him props. But if he doesnt, as i expect he wont, then I will continue to criticize for lack of European tournements played, almost as though, he wants to avoid clay as long as possible.

WyveN
09-30-2004, 02:33 AM
Well 2002 was awhile ago, wasnt it?? If he does it next year, I'll give him props. But if he doesnt, as i expect he wont, then I will continue to criticize for lack of European tournements played, almost as though, he wants to avoid clay as long as possible.


So far this year's lack of clay effort is a exception rather then a trend, will be interesting if it does become a trend now that he is a top player.

tennischick
09-30-2004, 04:15 AM
he could if he gave up his addiction to breaking and making serving speed records and concentrated on other aspects of his game. unfortunately i see no signs of his willingness to do that. :o

heya
09-30-2004, 04:25 AM
Ask the brilliant Gilbert why he went on TV to announce that Roddick needed to stay home to "rest."

He is not really a top player because no one took him seriously.
It was assumed that his brother would become a pro. Only his mother changed his mind at 16. He's just doing this as a hobby. He may quit within 5 years if no one cares.

His parents made him hire Gilbert because they were convinced by the trained monkeys on ESPN. The media made it look like that was so great, but that was just a publicity stunt.
He knows Gilbert doesn't have coaching talent, but doing nothing on the tennis court is ok with both of them. This is the way it is on grass, hardcourt & clay. Why care if they don't care?

He's just satisfied to be rich, promote tennis & do some charity.
Everyone else is fine with that.

Zetlandsk
09-30-2004, 06:38 AM
So far this year's lack of clay effort is a exception rather then a trend, will be interesting if it does become a trend now that he is a top player.

He has the great clayphobe Gilbert as coach and somehow I don't see the results getting much better for him in the near future.

WyveN
09-30-2004, 06:42 AM
he could if he gave up his addiction to breaking and making serving speed records and concentrated on other aspects of his game. unfortunately i see no signs of his willingness to do that. :o

Over the last 12 months, his backhand/volleys have improved far more then his serve, relatively speaking.

WyveN
09-30-2004, 06:45 AM
Ask the brilliant Gilbert why he went on TV to announce that Roddick needed to stay home to "rest."

He is not really a top player because no one took him seriously.
It was assumed that his brother would become a pro. Only his mother changed his mind at 16. He's just doing this as a hobby. He may quit within 5 years if no one cares.

His parents made him hire Gilbert because they were convinced by the trained monkeys on ESPN. The media made it look like that was so great, but that was just a publicity stunt.
He knows Gilbert doesn't have coaching talent, but doing nothing on the tennis court is ok with both of them. This is the way it is on grass, hardcourt & clay. Why care if they don't care?

He's just satisfied to be rich, promote tennis & do some charity.
Everyone else is fine with that.



Maybe you should write a e-mail to Roddick, I would love to know his reaction.

Zetlandsk
09-30-2004, 06:50 AM
Over the last 12 months, his backhand/volleys have improved far more then his serve, relatively speaking.

It's obvious, he has improved aspects of his game, but his lack of tactical sense isn't going to help him win on this surface.

Yes, heya should be coaching Roddick.

misyou25
09-30-2004, 10:36 AM
he will win one if he changes his attitude against clay

YulBrynnerWasBald
09-30-2004, 10:52 AM
No.

Sjengster
09-30-2004, 10:53 AM
It's amazing, I remember back in 2002 when he was doing really well at all the claycourt Masters Series he didn't have massively tough draws, but he did beat a couple of quality players in Gonzalez and Pavel and also had good wins against Ulihrach, Ferreira, Schuettler et al. It shows how much of tennis is played in the mind, because his game was unquestionably weaker back then but he didn't have a mental block about the surface under his feet and just played without worrying about anyone's expectations. That suddenly seemed to change last year when he had a little more pressure on him and the early exits started flowing (although losing to a former clay TMS winner and a future RG finalist, as well as an in-form Argentinian like Calleri, wasn't bad in terms of quality). This year there was really no commitment to playing and improving on clay at all, when you consider he only played three matches in Europe.

It'll take more than just improving the weaknesses to succeed on clay - he has to adapt a lot of his strengths as well as add more dimensions to his game. Not something that can be done overnight, and while he will probably have improved, consistent showings next year on clay I doubt he'll win a major title on it. Rome was his best result in 2002 and that's his best overall chance at a win, considering the speed of the courts and people like Sampras and Courier have won it in the past.

YulBrynnerWasBald
09-30-2004, 10:58 AM
It's definitely in the head and I doubt whether he wants to improve on clay, well it's not that difficult to see he could use his serve in a better manner on clay, he is not going to break the 300km/h mark. He can have success, it's mainly does he want to put the effort in to do so.

WyveN
09-30-2004, 12:53 PM
people like Sampras and Courier have won it in the past.

People like Courier?

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-30-2004, 12:56 PM
People like Courier?

Courier won Rome twice, but he got found out eventually and wasn't a threat after that, something Roddick never has been on a claycourt, a threat that is.

jtipson
09-30-2004, 01:10 PM
I take it you're talking about the Courier that won two Roland Garros titles?

star
09-30-2004, 01:14 PM
I loved Courier playing on clay. :)

Marc Rosset is Tall
09-30-2004, 01:16 PM
I take it you're talking about the Courier that won two Roland Garros titles?

Yes, that person called Jim Courier who win RG twice, but I loved the match when Bruguera beat him in the final it was quality stuff.

FrogBurger
09-30-2004, 02:51 PM
i say, no chance at all.

hitchhiker
09-30-2004, 03:13 PM
i say, no chance at all.


like beating federer when your at 99% instead of 100%

propi
09-30-2004, 06:48 PM
No way :o
His only slight chance would be Hamburg that uses to be the weakest, but yet, there're lots of better players ready to get it :o

Fedex
10-01-2004, 02:10 AM
No way :o
His only slight chance would be Hamburg that uses to be the weakest, but yet, there're lots of better players ready to get it :o
Hamburg's much too slow, for him to have any chance.

tennischick
10-01-2004, 02:17 AM
Over the last 12 months, his backhand/volleys have improved far more then his serve, relatively speaking.
i disagree. i think he's become more and more obsessed with leaving his mark on the field -- in the form of the biggest serve ever.

the Duck is rather childish IMO. a more mature (less Boy Scout-fixated) player would indeed have focussed on developing a more rounded game. but that would require becoming less addicted to the cameras.

PerezRoldan
10-01-2004, 02:38 AM
Hamburg's much too slow, for him to have any chance.

Very true and Rome would be his best chance of winning, but that won't be happening.

PerezRoldan
10-01-2004, 02:42 AM
i disagree. i think he's become more and more obsessed with leaving his mark on the field -- in the form of the biggest serve ever.

the Duck is rather childish IMO. a more mature (less Boy Scout-fixated) player would indeed have focussed on developing a more rounded game. but that would require becoming less addicted to the cameras.

So do you think his backhand and volleys have improved from what they were previously? This doesn't mean that they are good, but they have improved.

He doesn't have the patience, the willpower or the desire to improve his game to be well-rounded and he thinks it doesn't matter he can do well on hardcourts and grass, but he doesn't have to improve his game on clay as there is less stigma towards fastcourt players having to improve on clay than vice-versa.

Billabong
10-01-2004, 03:44 AM
we'll see;)!

^Sue^
10-01-2004, 04:25 AM
I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING THAT CAN MAKE HIM WIN AT ALL.......AS LONG AS THE SPANISHsssssss ARE ALIVE....hehe.....watch the Davis cup by the end of the year to determine whether Roddick can break his Jinx or not..i hope he's not....(cos i dun like him)

Boludo
10-01-2004, 04:58 AM
In theory yes he has a chance of winning a major title on the surface, but it's not very likely and he would have to get a soft draw and fast conditions for it to happen.

WyveN
10-01-2004, 05:49 AM
there is less stigma towards fastcourt players having to improve on clay than vice-versa.

because clay court season is less then a quarter of the season, there is no stigma for poor grass court players to become better on grass either as that part of the season is so short.

Dirk
10-01-2004, 05:52 AM
If the clay courters get better on harcourts/indoors does that count Perez? JC and Moya and Coria do hit that bar.

Boludo
10-01-2004, 05:55 AM
If the clay courters get better on harcourts/indoors does that count Perez? JC and Moya and Coria do hit that bar.

Their achievements still get discredited.

WyveN
10-01-2004, 05:56 AM
Their achievements still get discredited.

Just like Becker's on clay.

Boludo
10-01-2004, 06:00 AM
Just like Becker's on clay.

Corretja, Ferrero, Guga and Moya have won major titles on their non-prefered surface, which is something Becker never did and to be fair Becker didn't go around playing the South Dakota Open just to win a claycourt title.

Dirk
10-01-2004, 06:01 AM
Alex won the indoor YEC and Guga, Moya, and JC have won hardcourt titles including master series events.

WyveN
10-01-2004, 06:03 AM
Corretja, Ferrero, Guga and Moya have won major titles on their non-prefered surface, which is something Becker never did and to be fair Becker didn't go around playing the South Dakota Open just to win a claycourt title.

Corretja, Ferrero, Guga and Moya have never made the slam semi finals 3 times on their worst surface either.

Clay wasn't Becker's non prefered surface, it was his outright worst surface. Outdoor hardcourts was his non prefered surface on which he managed to win a USO.

WyveN
10-01-2004, 06:04 AM
Alex won the indoor YEC and Guga, Moya, and JC have won hardcourt titles including master series events.

What have they done on grass?

It's not fair to compare Becker's achievements on clay with those people's achievements on hardcourts, a surface they are very comfortable on.

Dirk
10-01-2004, 06:10 AM
Nothing I was just defending actually of them. Becker doesn't suck on clay and they don't suck on non favorite surfaces. I will admit though that it is tough to get use to grass since its the shortest season.

Dirk
10-01-2004, 06:11 AM
Guga made the qrts at Wimbly and Moya didn't do bad this year. I don't think any of them will ever be great grass players but I do think moya has the most potential.

Boludo
10-01-2004, 06:12 AM
Corretja, Ferrero, Guga and Moya have never made the slam semi finals 3 times on their worst surface either.

Clay wasn't Becker's non prefered surface, it was his outright worst surface. Outdoor hardcourts was his non prefered surface on which he managed to win a USO.

It's true, but at the same the huge double standards shouldn't exist and an example of that has been mentioned already a guy like Wilander wins Slams on 3 different surfaces and doesn't get the respect it deserves.

WyveN
10-01-2004, 06:15 AM
It's true, but at the same the huge double standards shouldn't exist and an example of that has been mentioned already a guy like Wilander wins Slams on 3 different surfaces and doesn't get the respect it deserves.

In what way? Compared to who? And why do you think he doesn't get respect?

Lee
10-01-2004, 06:15 AM
:confused: :confused: :confused:

I was looking at the list of voters and their choices and noticed some posters can cast more than one vote. e.g. i_love_paradorn name appears in all choices.

WyveN
10-01-2004, 06:18 AM
Guga made the qrts at Wimbly and Moya didn't do bad this year. I don't think any of them will ever be great grass players but I do think moya has the most potential.

All I am saying is that just like Guga/Moya don't really get credit for their fast court achievements, neither does Becker for his clay achievements. There have been many jokes about him failing to win a single title on clay despite the 3 slam SF and some Masters finals and the word "clay pigeon" has often been used.

WyveN
10-01-2004, 06:19 AM
:confused: :confused: :confused:

I was looking at the list of voters and their choices and noticed some posters can cast more than one vote. e.g. i_love_paradorn name appears in all choices.


If you clear cookies after each time you vote, you can heavily influence poll outcomes ;)

Boludo
10-01-2004, 06:27 AM
In what way? Compared to who? And why do you think he doesn't get respect?

Yes, that's what I meant with the South Dakota Open comment. Becker wasn't a clay pigeon so much, but there were much better players on that surface and he wasn't able to win clay titles and it's not like he lost to gimps either.

Wilander's career was underrated pure and simple. I mean then again so was Lendl but for different reasons. Mats wasn't a glamour boy with the media, and he didn't play that style of game as the others of that generation and gets looked down on and passed over.

Btw, it makes a pleasant change to be talking about tennis topics.

Chloe le Bopper
10-01-2004, 06:38 AM
because clay court season is less then a quarter of the season,

Perhaps the "official" clay season, but aren't something like 40% of the tournaments played on dirt? I forget the exact breakdown, so that number may not be accurate, which is why I posed it as a question ;)

there is no stigma for poor grass court players to become better on grass either as that part of the season is so short.

There isn't? Gee, I must have imagined people during clay season thanking the Lord that it would soon be over and these "shitty claycourters" would suck hard at Wimbledon. In my eyes, good clay courters have continually been berated for their Wimbledon performances. This gets a bit clouded when we consider that *some* good clay court players have skipped Wimbledon routinely, but Coria and Ferrero never have and people made comments about them anyways... I'm a fan of both, i remember these things ;)

Chloe le Bopper
10-01-2004, 06:40 AM
It's true, but at the same the huge double standards shouldn't exist and an example of that has been mentioned already a guy like Wilander wins Slams on 3 different surfaces and doesn't get the respect it deserves.

Why do I think that he won slams on 4 surfaces? Was one of his Aussie titles on grass or not? :confused:

Marc Rosset is Tall
10-01-2004, 06:45 AM
Why do I think that he won slams on 4 surfaces? Was one of his Aussie titles on grass or not? :confused:

I think Boludo has incorporated that hardcourt/Rebound Ace as the one surface, and not separated them, then he won 2 titles on grass and 3 on clay. So that's where that breakdown comes along that it is 3 surfaces, when it could be just easily be 4.

WyveN
10-01-2004, 07:30 AM
There isn't? Gee, I must have imagined people during clay season thanking the Lord that it would soon be over and these "shitty claycourters" would suck hard at Wimbledon. In my eyes, good clay courters have continually been berated for their Wimbledon performances.

No there isn't. Plenty of good clay court players skipped Wimbledon and there weren't countless articles in the media criticising their decision, there was no uproar. Moya didn't get booed now that he came back to Wimbledon.

Marc Rosset is Tall
10-01-2004, 07:36 AM
There was the uproar when Guga and Corretja didn't bother with Wimbledon, and then when Muster was in form there were plenty of snide remarks about him not playing at Wimbledon. Funny thing was he played Queens one year, then decided not to play Wimbledon. I thought he would want to be there for his girlfriend at the time "The Duchess of Pork".

Ferrero Forever
10-01-2004, 07:38 AM
Perhaps the "official" clay season, but aren't something like 40% of the tournaments played on dirt? I forget the exact breakdown, so that number may not be accurate, which is why I posed it as a question ;)



There isn't? Gee, I must have imagined people during clay season thanking the Lord that it would soon be over and these "shitty claycourters" would suck hard at Wimbledon. In my eyes, good clay courters have continually been berated for their Wimbledon performances. This gets a bit clouded when we consider that *some* good clay court players have skipped Wimbledon routinely, but Coria and Ferrero never have and people made comments about them anyways... I'm a fan of both, i remember these things ;)

look, we know that ferrero, coria and all the other so called clay court speciallists can play on ALL surfaces, so why are we arguing about this

Daniel
10-01-2004, 08:06 AM
NO

Marc Rosset is Tall
10-01-2004, 08:21 AM
look, we know that ferrero, coria and all the other so called clay court speciallists can play on ALL surfaces, so why are we arguing about this

We have a thread about this, which you have discovered and it's worth discussing and the good thing is that you agree the majority on this issue as the answer is no to the main question of Roddick and clay success.

Chloe le Bopper
10-01-2004, 08:23 AM
No there isn't. Plenty of good clay court players skipped Wimbledon and there weren't countless articles in the media criticising their decision, there was no uproar. Moya didn't get booed now that he came back to Wimbledon.
No uproar? LOL. Talk about looking at the exact same thing in totally different ways.