Baghdatis def Ljubicic 7-6 4-6 6-4 for Zagreb title [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Baghdatis def Ljubicic 7-6 4-6 6-4 for Zagreb title

adee-gee
02-04-2007, 02:42 PM
:smoke:

Ljubo sucks :cool:

Deathless Mortal
02-04-2007, 02:42 PM
Great match, Baghdatis had more luck, wins his second career title, and for the 2nd time beats Croat in the final :sad:

Fergie
02-04-2007, 02:43 PM
Ivan :bigcry:

El Legenda
02-04-2007, 02:44 PM
sometimes its better to be lucky than good :lol: Ivan gave him that first set.

Johnny Groove
02-04-2007, 02:45 PM
Baghdatis had more LUCK?!?!?! that is your excuse? Honestly :rolleyes:

Ljubo needs to just retire. Cant even win Zagreb on his favorite surface in his home country.

Apemant
02-04-2007, 02:45 PM
:smoke:

Ljubo sucks :cool:

Actually, this was by far his best match in Zagreb this week. Sorry. :devil:

Dimitra
02-04-2007, 02:45 PM
:woohoo: :worship: :bounce: BRAVO MARKO!!

:yeah: Second title! AND back to no.17!!!!:bounce:

adee-gee
02-04-2007, 02:45 PM
Actually, this was by far his best match in Zagreb this week. Sorry. :devil:
What's your point? :scratch:

Deathless Mortal
02-04-2007, 02:46 PM
Baghdatis had more LUCK?!?!?! that is your excuse? Honestly :rolleyes:

Ljubo needs to just retire. Cant even win Zagreb on his favorite surface in his home country.

Did you see the match? Last point was just enough

El Legenda
02-04-2007, 02:46 PM
Baghdatis had more LUCK?!?!?! that is your excuse? Honestly :rolleyes:

Ljubo needs to just retire. Cant even win Zagreb on his favorite surface in his home country.

maybe you should have watched than match.....even on MP, Marcos thought he netted the ball.

scoobs
02-04-2007, 02:46 PM
Good snatch and grab by Marcos at the end there to take the title.

lilimi80
02-04-2007, 02:46 PM
CONGRATULATIONS MARCOS!!!!! :bounce:

ljubicic_
02-04-2007, 02:46 PM
Baghdatis had more LUCK?!?!?! that is your excuse? Honestly :rolleyes:

Ljubo needs to just retire. Cant even win Zagreb on his favorite surface in his home country.

it isn't a shame to lose against Baghdatis, the player who is bether than Ljubo

Dimitra
02-04-2007, 02:47 PM
Actually, this was by far his best match in Zagreb this week. Sorry. :devil:


Yes, if he played as against Koubek he would get bageled!:o

But Ivan raised his level for the occasion and put up an excellent fight!:yeah: If you say he sucked you didn't watch the match!:p

Apemant
02-04-2007, 02:47 PM
Baghdatis had more LUCK?!?!?! that is your excuse? Honestly :rolleyes:

Ljubo needs to just retire. Cant even win Zagreb on his favorite surface in his home country.

By those standards most people outside top 20 should just retire, and then who would serve as cannon fodder for Federer? :devil:

jocaputs
02-04-2007, 02:47 PM
:smoke:

Ljubo sucks :cool:

:yeah:
and he was seeking revenge against marcos:haha:

*Ljubica*
02-04-2007, 02:47 PM
Well done Marcos :woohoo:

*Viva Chile*
02-04-2007, 02:48 PM
Congrats Marcos :yeah: but I didn't expect that Ljubo will lost today :eek:

Bilbo
02-04-2007, 02:48 PM
Ivan's luck ended here. Should have lost earlier.

Kalliopeia
02-04-2007, 02:49 PM
Well done, Marcos!! :bounce:

Pity Eurosport isn't showing the ceremony.

Apemant
02-04-2007, 02:49 PM
What's your point? :scratch:

My point is that Ljubo didn't suck in this match. :devil: Credit to Baggy, he withstood and beat Ljubo who didn't play bad at all, on the contrary. Good for Marcos. :yeah:

Horatio Caine
02-04-2007, 02:49 PM
Can't say I'm surprised :p

Congrats Marcos! :bounce:

Ivan :awww:

jayjay
02-04-2007, 02:49 PM
sometimes its better to be lucky than good :lol: Ivan gave him that first set.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g167/bostero_2006/boohoo.gif

Johnny Groove
02-04-2007, 02:50 PM
By those standards most people outside top 20 should just retire, and then who would serve as cannon fodder for Federer? :devil:

:lol: But people outside the top 20 win AT LEAST one round in the past 2 slams, no?

Ivan's luck ended here. Should have lost earlier.

expected win, right?

UncleZeke
02-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Once is Luck. Twice is Skill. Keep the titles coming, Baggie..

gebl
02-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Ivan's luck ended here. Should have lost earlier.

Agreed.

On the basis of this showing and his AO performance it is reasonable to suggest Ljubo will be out of the top 10 for good after RG.

yana
02-04-2007, 02:52 PM
way to go, Marcos, sunny boy!!!!! :bigclap:

yakuzaninja
02-04-2007, 02:53 PM
Ljubicic was very lucky to win Doha too- Soderling should have beaten him and his brainfart saved him.

Apemant
02-04-2007, 02:54 PM
Ivan's luck ended here. Should have lost earlier.

Did we watch the same match? Ljubo had this match in 2 actually. 1st set was his to lose, and 2nd he won. I'm not saying Baggy was 'lucky' - he just did his best in crucial moments & prevailed. While you actually called him a choker earlier in the match, when you weren't sure about the outcome.

Get your facts straight.

Bilbo
02-04-2007, 02:55 PM
expected win, right?

let's make it a bit different today.

expected win before the match but a bit surprised with the outcome after following the match.

jayjay
02-04-2007, 02:57 PM
:lol: But people outside the top 20 win AT LEAST one round in the past 2 slams, no?


Ivan Ljubicic - 30 Grandslams played, 15 1st round KO's.

He's probably just really, really unlucky? :lol:

Dimitra
02-04-2007, 02:57 PM
Did we watch the same match? Ljubo had this match in 2 actually. 1st set was his to lose, and 2nd he won. I'm not saying Baggy was 'lucky' - he just did his best in crucial moments & prevailed. While you actually called him a choker earlier in the match, when you weren't sure about the outcome.

Get your facts straight.

:yeah:

Bilbo
02-04-2007, 02:58 PM
Did we watch the same match? Ljubo had this match in 2 actually. 1st set was his to lose, and 2nd he won. I'm not saying Baggy was 'lucky' - he just did his best in crucial moments & prevailed. While you actually called him a choker earlier in the match, when you weren't sure about the outcome.

Get your facts straight.

he saved bps on 2nd serve in the 2nd set against youzhny. not lucky?

i didn't say marcos was not lucky to win today. he was in my opinion but ljubo also is a lucky player most of the time saving weird bps when he shouldn't.

A_Skywalker
02-04-2007, 03:00 PM
Congratulations Bagg

denisgiann
02-04-2007, 03:00 PM
Did we watch the same match? Ljubo had this match in 2 actually. 1st set was his to lose, and 2nd he won. I'm not saying Baggy was 'lucky' - he just did his best in crucial moments & prevailed. While you actually called him a choker earlier in the match, when you weren't sure about the outcome.

Get your facts straight.

I guess you were watching another match:) .First set wasnt really anyones until the tiebreak where he lost it.In the second he broke Markos with a lucky shot and then closed the set and in the third luck was on Markos side this time.
Great tournament Markos.Keep it up:cool: .

TheBoiledEgg
02-04-2007, 03:00 PM
Marcos :banana: :yeah:

RickDaStick
02-04-2007, 03:02 PM
I guess you were watching another match:) .First set wasnt really anyones until the tiebreak where he lost it.In the second he broke Markos with a lucky shot and then closed the set and in the third luck was on Markos side this time.
Great tournament Markos.Keep it up:cool: .

i think you were watching another match. Ivan had 2 set points on marcos serve which he had to serve a 2nd serve. the first set was definately ivans until the TB

Apemant
02-04-2007, 03:03 PM
Ivan Ljubicic - 30 Grandslams played, 15 1st round KO's.

He's probably just really, really unlucky? :lol:

Let me put it this way: most of those 1st round exits were while Ljubo was around 60-70 on the Entry list. For people at that level it is NORMAL to lose in 1st or 2nd, as soon as they hit a seed. Only amazing talents such as Nalbandian can raise their game specifically for GS even when they are low in rankings. And I never considered Ljubo an amazing talent.

So, the only thing you can point to are his last 2 slam exits. And yes, he got unlucky, both times got people with good serves, and he can't return well.

If you have other questions, feel free to ask. :devil:

Dimitra
02-04-2007, 03:04 PM
i think you were watching another match. Ivan had 2 set points on marcos serve which he had to serve a 2nd serve. the first set was definately ivans until the TB

True but remember how many bps Marcos also failed to convert!;) :o

Ivan played great today sure wasn't luck-but the same for marcos!:wavey:

TMJordan
02-04-2007, 03:04 PM
Thank you Marcos for taking out the trash :D

denisgiann
02-04-2007, 03:06 PM
i think you were watching another match. Ivan had 2 set points on marcos serve which he had to serve a 2nd serve. the first set was definately ivans until the TB

Before the setpoints do you remember how many breakpoints Ivan had to save in order to get to that position?Or those doesnt count?;)

RickDaStick
02-04-2007, 03:06 PM
Ivan Ljubicic - 30 Grandslams played, 15 1st round KO's.

He's probably just really, really unlucky? :lol:

Its a shame Argentina has more players caught for doping then players in the top 100. They cheat and still cant win.

RickDaStick
02-04-2007, 03:07 PM
Before the setpoints do you remember how many breakpoints Ivan had to save in order to get to that position?Or those doesnt count?;)

Yes i do remember, it was 1.

Horatio Caine
02-04-2007, 03:09 PM
Its a shame Argentina has more players caught for doping then players in the top 100. They cheat and still cant win.

I shouldn't laugh, but that is funny :haha: :haha:

happy928
02-04-2007, 03:12 PM
Thank you baggy.....

so long LUBIEDICK.....

Learn how to return serves......

-the end

jayjay
02-04-2007, 03:14 PM
[QUOTE=Apemant;4809769]Let me put it this way: most of those 1st round exits were while Ljubo was around 60-70 on the Entry list.

You really are an Ivan Ljubicic apologist, aren't you?

In the past 9 Slams alone, Ljubicic has made 4 1R exits, and failed to go beyond the 3R on 7 occasions.

If you are trying in some way to make out that Ljubicic is much different than he has been his entire career when it comes to Slams, you will fail miserably. The facts do not support your argument, so please don't waste my time, or indeed your own in trying to do so.

I'm afraid your belief that this is the norm for top players is unfounded, top 10 players don't usually have these kind of consistently awful Slam results.

So, the only thing you can point to are his last 2 slam exits.

No, it's not. As I have explained. Please take the facts into consideration before you speak.

If you have other questions, feel free to ask. :devil:

Do you only recognise sarcasm when it is accompanied by smilies?

jayjay
02-04-2007, 03:16 PM
Its a shame Argentina has more players caught for doping then players in the top 100. They cheat and still cant win.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g167/bostero_2006/boohoo.gif

qczi
02-04-2007, 03:16 PM
Thank you Marcos for taking out the trash :D

:haha:

denisgiann
02-04-2007, 03:16 PM
Its official then.Markos Baghdatis(i can play great depending on my mood swings) owns the ass of(i live only by the serve and die by the serve) Ivan Ljubicic:devil: .

Dimitra
02-04-2007, 03:18 PM
also both titles against croats!!:p

guga2120
02-04-2007, 03:21 PM
congrats to Marcos:) , hope he pulls his ranking back up.

R.Federer
02-04-2007, 03:26 PM
Congrats to Marcos. Both made up a little bit for AO by going far here.

Marcos is now 3-0 against Ivan lifetime.

GlennMirnyi
02-04-2007, 03:27 PM
Let me put it this way: most of those 1st round exits were while Ljubo was around 60-70 on the Entry list. For people at that level it is NORMAL to lose in 1st or 2nd, as soon as they hit a seed. Only amazing talents such as Nalbandian can raise their game specifically for GS even when they are low in rankings. And I never considered Ljubo an amazing talent.

So, the only thing you can point to are his last 2 slam exits. And yes, he got unlucky, both times got people with good serves, and he can't return well.

If you have other questions, feel free to ask. :devil:

Slow down mate, that's too much.

Apemant
02-04-2007, 03:38 PM
I guess you were watching another match:) .First set wasnt really anyones until the tiebreak where he lost it.In the second he broke Markos with a lucky shot and then closed the set and in the third luck was on Markos side this time.
Great tournament Markos.Keep it up:cool: .

So, having 3 set points means about nothing in your book? Sheesh. He did some crazy return winners to earn him those sp's on Baggy's serve. Some even on 1st serve (I didn't believe it to be possible). He just needed one shot like that to win the first set. 3 opportunities.

And in the 2nd set he put much more pressure to Baggy's serve than vice versa.

I mean, congratz to Baggy but please don't fantasize.

virex
02-04-2007, 03:38 PM
thanks marcos
for helping me on predict the score :yeah:

Clara Bow
02-04-2007, 03:39 PM
I was unable to see tha match- but could anyone please tell me how Marcos played- outside of being "lucky." How did he look during the match?

RickDaStick
02-04-2007, 03:43 PM
I was unable to see tha match- but could anyone please tell me how Marcos played- outside of being "lucky." How did he look during the match?

he played well for the most part. he was inconsistent at times but his serve was on and he looked good from the back.

Clara Bow
02-04-2007, 03:46 PM
he played well for the most part. he was inconsistent at times but his serve was on and he looked good from the back.

Thanks IL. :)

Glad to hear that Marcos had better form than during the Australian Open, even if that dang inconsitancy was there. Maybe he will start to perform better in more smaller events and the Masters- which is one thing he needed to do last year.

Congrats to Ivan for making the final.

Kalliopeia
02-04-2007, 03:47 PM
I was unable to see tha match- but could anyone please tell me how Marcos played- outside of being "lucky." How did he look during the match?

He was pretty solid, mostly. Granted I didn't see most of the second set, which he lost. Butfrom what I did see he came up with some big serves when he needed them and hit some really nice shots. Not the best I've ever seen from him, a little inconsistent.

And by the way that is one ugly trophy. You'd think they thought Djokovic was going to win, to look at that thing. :lol:

TheBoiledEgg
02-04-2007, 03:56 PM
Ivan Ljubicic - 30 Grandslams played, 15 1st round KO's.

He's probably just really, really unlucky? :lol:

its 30 slams played and 24 1st/2nd rd losses :worship: :worship:
what a record

jayjay
02-04-2007, 03:57 PM
its 30 slams played and 24 1st/2nd rd losses :worship: :worship:
what a record

:hatoff: :)

Dimitra
02-04-2007, 03:59 PM
He was pretty solid, mostly. Granted I didn't see most of the second set, which he lost. Butfrom what I did see he came up with some big serves when he needed them and hit some really nice shots. Not the best I've ever seen from him, a little inconsistent.

And by the way that is one ugly trophy. You'd think they thought Djokovic was going to win, to look at that thing. :lol:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m105/bagdaddy_2006/baghdatis_zagreb7.jpg

:lol:

Viken01
02-04-2007, 04:09 PM
congrats marcos !

Kalliopeia
02-04-2007, 04:11 PM
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m105/bagdaddy_2006/baghdatis_zagreb7.jpg

:lol:

It looks like it's made out of tin! :lol:

Apemant
02-04-2007, 04:20 PM
You really are an Ivan Ljubicic apologist, aren't you?

Yes, pretty much.


In the past 9 Slams alone, Ljubicic has made 4 1R exits, and failed to go beyond the 3R on 7 occasions.

Yes, that's true, but it means nothing. It doesn't say who he played against, what those matches looked like, how good were his opponents etc. We can talk about every one of them independently if you wish. But I don't see a point. Like I said, I don't overestimate Ljubo's skills or talent. Never did. I never said Ljubo was a multiple GS contender. Actually, I don't see him even making as much as a GS final, unless the draw gods smile upon his poor soul.

If you are trying in some way to make out that Ljubicic is much different than he has been his entire career when it comes to Slams, you will fail miserably. The facts do not support your argument, so please don't waste my time, or indeed your own in trying to do so.

Which facts, pray tell? It is a known fact that Ljubo was a master choker till like 2-3 years ago. It was completely usual for him to lose won matches. And lose them not because his opponents' fighting spirit (like Nadal in Madrid) but because he just dropped his level for reasons unknown to anyone, including himself.

BTW, before you say that facts don't support my argument, you should first understand what my argument is, in the first place. And I'm not convinced you do, quite frankly. I have this impression that you consider me a Ljubo 'tard, who sees only what he wants to see. Well, that's just not true. Really sorry about that.


I'm afraid your belief that this is the norm for top players is unfounded, top 10 players don't usually have these kind of consistently awful Slam results.

Did you even bother to read the post you answered? Ljubo was hanging around 40-80 for YEARS. In those years he got the bulk of his poor GS record.



No, it's not. As I have explained. Please take the facts into consideration before you speak.

Yes it is. I don't deny facts, you do. Till 2-3 years ago Ljubicic was something like a Florent Serra. Floating in mid 50 for years. Now check Serra's GS record. All 1st and 2nd round exits. Now if Serra found some new strength, started training like crazy etc etc etc and in 3 years got to top 10, what would be the point of digging his poor GS records from the years he was floating around 50? And thats what you essentially do here.

It only eludes me what kind of satisfaction you get outta that. You sound old enough not to indulge yourself in such childish nonsense. But if you are actually a kid who just fooled me, just say so, I'll leave you to your gloating, no problem there. :wavey:

Do you only recognise sarcasm when it is accompanied by smilies?

:confused:
I got your sarcasm, but seems you didn't get mine. Did my devil smiley disturbed your concentration? :devil:

Merton
02-04-2007, 04:25 PM
Congrats Marcos, that match was as close as it can get:yeah: Ivan raised his level for the final, he can be pround of his effort in this tournament.

Clara Bow
02-04-2007, 04:27 PM
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m105/bagdaddy_2006/baghdatis_zagreb7.jpg



Sheesh- that trophy looks like it is in honor of some chemical compound. Yea Carbon Dioxide!!!

Apemant
02-04-2007, 04:29 PM
Slow down mate, that's too much.

Why? He is extremely talented. At any rate, way more talented than Ljubo for example.

Kalliopeia
02-04-2007, 04:31 PM
:lol: If Djoko had won that monstrosity you know he'd've gotten the same shape trophy, only made with clear acrylic and with a bag of red jellybeans inside the box portion. :tape:

:haha:

Sheesh- that trophy looks like it is in honor of some chemical compound. Yea Carbon Dioxide!!!

:haha:

"Marcos Baghdatis celebrates his win at the Cyprus National Science Fair."

almouchie
02-04-2007, 04:34 PM
why the bashing of Ljubo
i cant get it

he is doing exceptionally well with his abilities, a solid top 8 player 2 years in a row, sure his GS record is suspect, but he deserves all the respect

gr8 win for Baghdatis, he needs to start to build on his final GS appearance last year & string a series of good form

GlennMirnyi
02-04-2007, 04:35 PM
Why? He is extremely talented. At any rate, way more talented than Ljubo for example.

Mildly talented.

About Ljubo, of course he's more talented.

RickDaStick
02-04-2007, 04:35 PM
Why? He is extremely talented. At any rate, way more talented than Ljubo for example.


He is more talented than Ljubo but his work ethic is nowhere near Ivans. That is why ivan is in the top 10 and fat dave is not.

Blue Heart24
02-04-2007, 04:36 PM
Ivan :sad:
He lost the match because he CHOKED.
He choked in the first set,3 sp's on Baghdatis serve,2 on second serve.
And he choked 2 most important times in third set.When he had break point in the first game,and when he had advantage in that last game of the match.
If he won just one point at one of that 3 key moments,he would have won the match.
I hope he can gain some more confidence in DC next week,and then go for a few big wins in Marseille and Rotterdam.

Black Adam
02-04-2007, 04:40 PM
How could the 1st set have been his if Marcos won it :shrug: He can't return so that's why he lost, no big surprise there ;) Love the excuses but at the end of the day Marcos gets the W,Trophy and big cheque. And Ivan continues to suck.:p

Monteque
02-04-2007, 04:40 PM
Congrats to Bagy for second title.
For Ivan, it's just sad to see failed for the second title in a row.

jayjay
02-04-2007, 04:40 PM
[QUOTE=Apemant;4810087]
Yes, that's true, but it means nothing. It doesn't say who he played against, what those matches looked like, how good were his opponents etc. We can talk about every one of them independently if you wish. But I don't see a point.

Neither do I. Why you want to try and bypass his poor Slam record, is your own cross to bear. I'm unlikely to get involved in a long running debate with you over the painfully obvious.

If you wish to fall back on the hope that Ljubicic's poor slam record came at the hands of outstanding players who he could not possibly stand a chance against, then as I said, choose to be blinkered if you wish.

Like I said, I don't overestimate Ljubo's skills or talent. Never did. I never said Ljubo was a multiple GS contender. Actually, I don't see him even making as much as a GS final, unless the draw gods smile upon his poor soul.

Well, given that is the case. One wonders why you keep chiming in to defend the indefensible, given that I saw early today you actually made a similar 1R jibe (tongue in cheek) about Ljubicic's record in the Zagreb thread, again it's puzzling what you are trying to defend here when you already are in agreement.

Are you just trying to play devils advocate (and failing) for the sake of it?

Which facts, pray tell? It is a known fact that Ljubo was a master choker till like 2-3 years ago. It was completely usual for him to lose won matches. And lose them not because his opponents' fighting spirit (like Nadal in Madrid) but because he just dropped his level for reasons unknown to anyone, including himself.

You claimed that Ljubicic's poor slam record was mainly before he became a "top" player. The facts I gave to you, 4 1R slam exits in the past 9, and failure to go beyond the 3R in 7 of those tournaments, are the facts which I pray you will take on board.

The only difference between the Ivan Ljubicic of today, and say 3/4 years ago in terms of results, is that he has made a good habit of winning some of the "smaller" tournaments. As far his overall Slam record is concerned, little or nothing has changed. That's the truth. Not opinion. Results don't lie, people do.

BTW, before you say that facts don't support my argument, you should first understand what my argument is, in the first place. And I'm not convinced you do, quite frankly. I have this impression that you consider me a Ljubo 'tard, who sees only what he wants to see. Well, that's just not true. Really sorry about that.

Not at all. I don't consider you any kind of tard, I don't know you, although you have presumed to know me. The only reason we are even having this debate is because yet again who have jumped in to "defend" a criticism of Ljubicic, that is perfectly valid and full proof, and as I stated a criticism which you yourself jokingly made today in the Zagreb thread.

Did you even bother to read the post you answered? Ljubo was hanging around 40-80 for YEARS. In those years he got the bulk of his poor GS record.

Let's try again, for the third time. In the past 9 slams (as in since Ljubicic has 'elevated' his results), his slam record has remained woeful. 4 1R exits in 9. 1 this year already, 1 last year, 2 in 2005. He made the Masters Cup in 2005 and 2006, and yet still has 3 1R exits in slams during that period, if that is not enough (not even taking into account this year's AO) to tell you that nothing has changed with Ljubicic nor is likely to. Then that is for you to digest sooner or later.

Again, what are you arguing against? That his record was poor, but now isn't? Why bother to say such things when they are so clearly not true and you have absolutely no evidence to back you up.

Please stop. This converstion need not go on much further, if at all.

Yes it is. I don't deny facts, you do. Till 2-3 years ago Ljubicic was something like a Florent Serra. Floating in mid 50 for years. Now check Serra's GS record. All 1st and 2nd round exits. Now if Serra found some new strength, started training like crazy etc etc etc and in 3 years got to top 10, what would be the point of digging his poor GS records from the years he was floating around 50? And thats what you essentially do here.

I haven't dug up anything - let's try for the fourth time, 4 1R exits in the last 9 slams. Please take it in. I won't waste my time saying it to you again.

It only eludes me what kind of satisfaction you get outta that. You sound old enough not to indulge yourself in such childish nonsense. But if you are actually a kid who just fooled me, just say so, I'll leave you to your gloating, no problem there. :wavey:

Could you be anymore anal? Please don't try to dictate if and when others can have a little banterish and valid dig at a player, that you yourself did earlier today. It's astonishingly hypocritical.

But as I said, if it's smilies you require for you to take a back seat when such comments are made, then just take them as implied.

Did my devil smiley disturbed your concentration? :devil:

Your devil smilie is something I may be immune to, as you make it in nearly every post, no?

There isn't anything else than needs to be said here, unless you are going to disprove the theory that Ljubicic had a poor slam record and still does. You could only do this with a series of factually correct results. Unfortunately, since becoming a "top" player, Ljubicic has only gone beyond the 3R of Slams twice in nine attempts. Wholly consistent with his slam career in general.

Feel free to think I am lying or distorting the facts, but you will be in the blind minority, where evidently you may be most comfortable. Better luck next time. :) :wavey:

Apemant
02-04-2007, 04:41 PM
Mildly talented.

About Ljubo, of course he's more talented.

'Mildly'? What does 'mildly' mean in your book?

About your next sentence, it's ambiguous. Who is more talented than who, in your opinion?

NYCtennisfan
02-04-2007, 04:44 PM
:lol: If Djoko had won that monstrosity you know he'd've gotten the same shape trophy, only made with clear acrylic and with a bag of red jellybeans inside the box portion. :tape:

:haha:

jayjay
02-04-2007, 04:45 PM
'Mildly'? What does 'mildly' mean in your book?

About your next sentence, it's ambiguous. Who is more talented than who, in your opinion?

In Glenn Mirnyi's opinion, Nalbandian is without talent and any match he ever won was due to a "choke" by the opponent. You are unlikely to gain much of an objective view from him on this matter, so don't waste your time like others have. :)

GlennMirnyi
02-04-2007, 04:47 PM
'Mildly'? What does 'mildly' mean in your book?

About your next sentence, it's ambiguous. Who is more talented than who, in your opinion?

Mildly means: talented but no big deal.

Fat Dave is more talented than Ljubo, that's for sure.

delsa
02-04-2007, 04:48 PM
:woohoo: Marcos!

GlennMirnyi
02-04-2007, 04:49 PM
In Glenn Mirnyi's opinion, Nalbandian is without talent and any match he ever won was due to a "choke" by the opponent. You are unlikely to gain much of an objective view from him on this matter, so don't waste your time like others have. :)

:awww: :bigcry: :crazy:

jayjay
02-04-2007, 04:53 PM
:awww: :bigcry: :crazy:

:dance:

Flibbertigibbet
02-04-2007, 04:59 PM
Good job to Marcos, he really needed that after the Australian! I hope he'll bounce back and do well in these smaller events (and through the clay season) to make up the lost points and get a buffer for Wimbledon.

Apemant
02-04-2007, 05:00 PM
Neither do I. Why you want to try and bypass his poor Slam record, is your own cross to bear. I'm unlikely to get involved in a long running debate with you over the painfully obvious.

OMG. Let me try another approach. Maybe I use too many words (or too many devilish smileys for your taste):

What is it that I am trying to defend? What is my argument? Are you sure you know what it is? I'm not so sure, as you keep 'answering' and 'debunking' stuff I never even thought, let alone openly said.

Or maybe it's the other way around. Maybe I didn't get YOUR meaning. So, let's see: what do you think Ljubo's poor GS record proves (since you keep bringing it up, you must think it proves at least something)? In plain english, if possible, please.

Apemant
02-04-2007, 05:03 PM
Mildly means: talented but no big deal.

Fat Dave is more talented than Ljubo, that's for sure.

Can you name 10 players whose talent is big deal? To get a perspective on things.

GlennMirnyi
02-04-2007, 05:07 PM
Can you name 10 players whose talent is big deal? To get a perspective on things.

Must be players still active?

RonE
02-04-2007, 05:07 PM
Baggy! :D :yeah:

Good to see him bounce back after a disappointing AO and let's hope this will help him achieve more consistent resuts throughout the year.

tennismaster882001
02-04-2007, 05:11 PM
Feel free to think I am lying or distorting the facts, but you will be in the blind minority, where evidently you may be most comfortable. Better luck next time. :) :wavey:

You are distorting facts, not lying!;)

Apemant
02-04-2007, 05:13 PM
Must be players still active?

Active or recently retired.

tennismaster882001
02-04-2007, 05:16 PM
Do this kind of discussions happen always after finals or only when Ljubicic plays!? It's realy exhausting to read it over and over again!

Il Primo Uomo
02-04-2007, 05:16 PM
Yay Marcos :banana: Nice you beat that arrogant bitch :yeah: And yeah, Ljubo sucks

GlennMirnyi
02-04-2007, 05:23 PM
Active or recently retired.

Then it will be hard. Recently is what?

Federer, Berdych, Djokovic, Kuerten, Ancic, Safin, Ferrero, Scud, Gaudio, Haas.

Apemant
02-04-2007, 05:26 PM
How could the 1st set have been his if Marcos won it :shrug: He can't return so that's why he lost, no big surprise there ;) Love the excuses but at the end of the day Marcos gets the W,Trophy and big cheque. And Ivan continues to suck.:p

Did you even watch the match? I said the 1st set was Ivan's TO LOSE, and that's a fact. Throughout the set he put more pressure on Baggy than vice versa. He had 3 freaking set points, it's not unimaginable that he might have actually won that set, or is it still?

And BTW - oh the irony! - he actually returned very well in this match. Much better than I hoped for, based on his previous 4 matches this week, where he was abysmal.

Apemant
02-04-2007, 05:33 PM
Yay Marcos :banana: Nice you beat that arrogant bitch :yeah: And yeah, Ljubo sucks

You are aware that:

- if you beat your opponent by the score 7-6 4-6 6-4
- your opponents sucks

... it actually means you also suck, but only slightly less so? I mean, how great are you if you need 3 tight sets to defeat someone who sucks? :devil:

I don't know what made you think so low about Marcos. I'd certainly give him more props, as he is such a nice guy.

Jlee
02-04-2007, 05:46 PM
Marcos! :yeah:

goran_the_2nd
02-04-2007, 06:00 PM
man... you people should get a life :) it was a great match, both played some good tennis. marcos was better and luckier on key points, and he won.. and btw dont worry, ljubo will end this year in Top 10 too.

croat123
02-04-2007, 06:26 PM
people on this board are psycho. all of a sudden making the finals of a tournament is a bad result. if it's so bad, go out and do it yourself. i think it speaks a lot to ljubo's fight that he was able to make the final and push it to three sets despite serving poorly and, overall, playing pretty poor tennis for his standard.

Deathless Mortal
02-04-2007, 06:27 PM
:haha: This thread is funny! :D:D:D

TennisGrandSlam
02-04-2007, 06:27 PM
Well done! :cool:

Blue Heart24
02-04-2007, 06:34 PM
people on this board are psycho. all of a sudden making the finals of a tournament is a bad result. if it's so bad, go out and do it yourself. i think it speaks a lot to ljubo's fight that he was able to make the final and push it to three sets despite serving poorly and, overall, playing pretty poor tennis for his standard.

It's true :yeah: :awww:

jazar
02-04-2007, 06:35 PM
go marcos

tangerine_dream
02-04-2007, 06:37 PM
Baggy=Croat Killa. Congrats to Marcos :bigclap: A great win for him, beating King Croatie on his home turf, at his favorite MM tournament. :D

All of the pressure was on Ivan this week and it showed. He had more escapes than Houdini this week. Marcos had no pressure, so he was able to play more steady and solid.

Time for another one of my duck hugs for the Croaties http://img2.menstennisforums.com/790/bighug.gif

Dere! all better. :D

MarieS
02-04-2007, 06:50 PM
:haha: This thread is hilarious. :haha: :haha:

El Legenda
02-04-2007, 06:52 PM
Ljubo made a mistake of playing first round on wednesday and playing 5 in a row.... but he didnt look tired...still played great....most of the time....he was amazing at the net...needs to serve and volley more :yeah:

fenomeno2111
02-04-2007, 07:02 PM
Congrats Baggy! Way to take Ljubicic out at home:)

gmak
02-04-2007, 07:11 PM
bravo Marco! :worship: :yeah: :D

*Ljubica*
02-04-2007, 07:12 PM
Baggy=Croat Killa. Congrats to Marcos :bigclap: A great win for him, beating King Croatie on his home turf, at his favorite MM tournament. :D

All of the pressure was on Ivan this week and it showed. He had more escapes than Houdini this week. Marcos had no pressure, so he was able to play more steady and solid.

Time for another one of my duck hugs for the Croaties http://img2.menstennisforums.com/790/bighug.gif

Dere! all better. :D

That smiley is just :haha: I love it!

Metis
02-04-2007, 07:17 PM
Nicely done Marco! Good win after the AO disappointment. :)


What's the significance of the No 2 on the trophy? "You are the real No2"? :p

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/ZAG11102041625.jpg

stebs
02-04-2007, 07:57 PM
Then it will be hard. Recently is what?

Federer, Berdych, Djokovic, Kuerten, Ancic, Safin, Ferrero, Scud, Gaudio, Haas.

Nalbandian is more talented than Flip for sure.

El Legenda
02-04-2007, 08:05 PM
What's the significance of the No 2 on the trophy? "You are the real No2"? :p

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/ZAG11102041625.jpg

PBZ Zagreb Indors

the O has the 2 :)

GlennMirnyi
02-04-2007, 08:10 PM
Nalbandian is more talented than Flip for sure.

If he is than Flip is an overachiever.

dorkino
02-04-2007, 08:26 PM
originally posted by Jez
Can't say I'm surprised :p

I am ,but it's a happy surprise. Well done Baghdatis :clap2:

Warrior
02-04-2007, 08:30 PM
Well done Marcos! Keep it up!

Johnny Groove
02-04-2007, 09:03 PM
he played well for the most part. he was inconsistent at times but his serve was on and he looked good from the back.

:aplot:

Ivan :sad:
He lost the match because he CHOKED.

of course! :)

people on this board are psycho. all of a sudden making the finals of a tournament is a bad result. if it's so bad, go out and do it yourself. i think it speaks a lot to ljubo's fight that he was able to make the final and push it to three sets despite serving poorly and, overall, playing pretty poor tennis for his standard.

I thought he choked? Now he was playing bad? You guys cant get your excuss right! :rolleyes: And for Ljubo in Zagreb, anything short of a win is a bad result. He cant play the slams to save his life, so he must rely on MM tourneys for points. When he cant even win those? :o

DrJules
02-04-2007, 09:15 PM
Thank you baggy.....

so long LUBIEDICK.....

Learn how to return serves......

-the end

How could the 1st set have been his if Marcos won it :shrug: He can't return so that's why he lost, no big surprise there ;) Love the excuses but at the end of the day Marcos gets the W,Trophy and big cheque. And Ivan continues to suck.:p



Checked the return figures:

On 1st serve Ljubicic won 18/75 (24%) Baghdatis 13/64 (20%).
On 2nd serve Ljubicic won 19/40 (48%) Baghdatis 20/42 (48%).

Ljubicic returned better in the match.

If Ljubicic returns badly then Baghdatis is even worse in that aspect.

Johnny Groove
02-04-2007, 09:17 PM
Ljubo made a mistake of playing first round on wednesday and playing 5 in a row.... but he didnt look tired...still played great....most of the time....he was amazing at the net...needs to serve and volley more :yeah:

yeah, because that NEVER happens to top seeds :rolleyes:

Checked the return figures:

On 1st serve Ljubicic won 18/75 (24%) Baghdatis 13/64 (20%).
On 2nd serve Ljubicic won 19/40 (48%) Baghdatis 20/42 (48%).

If Ljubicic returns badly then Baghdatis is even worse.

those stats dont tell the whole story due to the quality of Ljubo's serve compared to Baghdatis'

GlennMirnyi
02-04-2007, 09:20 PM
those stats dont tell the whole story due to the quality of Ljubo's serve compared to Baghdatis'

Baghdatis isn't a bad server.

Klaas_nalbandian
02-04-2007, 09:20 PM
Well done Marcos, good week after the AO disaster

Johnny Groove
02-04-2007, 09:23 PM
Baghdatis isn't a bad server.

no, hes not, but is his serve equal to Ljubo?

GlennMirnyi
02-04-2007, 09:29 PM
no, hes not, but is his serve equal to Ljubo?

No, but in the context of this particular match, you can't say Ljubo lost because he can't return, even if it's valid for other matches. :p

Tobi
02-04-2007, 10:50 PM
Congrats Marcos :banana: :devil:

ChinoRios4Ever
02-04-2007, 11:32 PM
marcos :bigclap:

Action Jackson
02-04-2007, 11:53 PM
Well done Marcos, beating Big Ivan for the third time in a row in his yard.

ChinoRios4Ever
02-05-2007, 12:09 AM
Marcos= Ljubo Killa????

nkhera1
02-05-2007, 12:20 AM
Marcos= Ljubo Killa????

1st round grand slam= Ljubo Killa

ChinoRios4Ever
02-05-2007, 12:24 AM
1st round grand slam= Ljubo Killa

:yeah:

Billabong
02-05-2007, 02:15 AM
Congrats Marcos, great fight and awesome victory:yeah: You did great man:D!!! Keep up the great play:bounce:!!!

Ivan:hug: Still, you already won a title in 2007, keep up the nice work:)

Experimentee
02-05-2007, 02:34 AM
I hope now people will stop bagging Marcos because of his poor recent results and appreciate his talent :yeah:

Federer&Hingis
02-05-2007, 04:16 AM
Congrats Baghdatis.

Osama B Hitler
02-05-2007, 05:47 AM
Way to go Baggy! Beats Ivan The Ogre on his home turf - YES!

avinash
02-05-2007, 05:52 AM
:worship: I hope now people will stop bagging Marcos because of his poor recent results and appreciate his talent :yeah:

Yeah yippeee Marcos wins a title for 2007 now until 2008 wait will he for next :devil:

talented guy can bounce the tennis balls between his legs yeah.
:worship:

Apemant
02-05-2007, 08:09 AM
Nalbandian is more talented than Flip for sure.

:secret: (Actually, I'd say Nalby is no less talented than any of those guys, but don't tell Mirnyi, he'll get mad.)

The problem with Nalby is that he's not exactly a hard worker, and also used to be a headcase (actually, still is). But the way he can adapt to any surface and any opponent, and raise his game significantly for GS, clearly speaks volumes about his untapped talents.

But hey, people here accept only 'success' as an indication of talent. So what can I say. Federer might have choked away all his GS's, and I would still consider him extremely talented nonetheless. Success does depend on talents, sure thing, but also on sheer luck. I don't think Bill Gates is THAT talented for business, as his fortune might suggest.

Apemant
02-05-2007, 08:16 AM
No, but in the context of this particular match, you can't say Ljubo lost because he can't return, even if it's valid for other matches. :p

Precisely. The irony is, he lost this match where he returned way above my own expectations - and won those earlier matches where his return was woeful (so many easy FH returns into the net, it made me cringe. :mad: ). To tell you the truth, I expected Baggy to destroy him like he did to Mario in Beijing. If he'd played as bad as against ToJo, that's exactly what Baggy would have done. He certainly knows how to return those 220+ kph bombs, so you can't just ace him to death.

Deathless Mortal
02-05-2007, 08:32 AM
This is funny and sad at the same moment... Ljubo won a title, and now played a final, and lost in a close match (lost his serve once, and it was on *4-5 in third) And yes, Ljubo had a bad week but still managed to go to the final, and he still sucks?? Then Youzhny sucks big time coz he lost twice to that Ivan... And then we Croats don't know what we are talking about :rolleyes:
Really, like someone said, get a life!

Apemant
02-05-2007, 08:34 AM
I thought he choked? Now he was playing bad? You guys cant get your excuss right! :rolleyes: And for Ljubo in Zagreb, anything short of a win is a bad result. He cant play the slams to save his life, so he must rely on MM tourneys for points. When he cant even win those? :o

He didn't choke that badly, maybe a little, but series of 2nd serves happen to him from time to time, so its inconclusive. Noone can guarantee a quality 1st serve to save every break point he faces; Ljubo is no exception. Also, he played way better than in previous matches, which is good for Baggy since he managed to beat him anyway.

But let me share a little secret with you. Tennis, it's a game for TWO players. You can't say something like 'he must win MM tourneys'. In each and every final of those MM tourneys, there are 2 players who want to take it. One of them will inevitably fail to do that, right? Not to mention there are actually 32 players in the draw, and just one of them will eventually win it. So what should those 31 think about it, according to you? That they are failures and need to give up tennis? Come on, you are smarter than this. Aren't you already tired of trying to rile up croatards? And even if you're not, you are aware that it will only provoke similar response when your favorites suffer their next loss? But hey, if you like that endless bashing circle, just keep going, you are doing a great job there. :yeah:

gebl
02-05-2007, 10:18 AM
Baggy :yeah: :worship: :angel:

Black Adam
02-05-2007, 11:02 AM
people on this board are psycho. all of a sudden making the finals of a tournament is a bad result. if it's so bad, go out and do it yourself. i think it speaks a lot to ljubo's fight that he was able to make the final and push it to three sets despite serving poorly and, overall, playing pretty poor tennis for his standard.
replace people with myself and the other Ljubicic trolls then your statement would be 100% true.

Drimal
02-05-2007, 11:07 AM
:aparty: :banana: :woohoo:

Congrats Marcos! :rocker:

:aparty: :banana: :woohoo:

Black Adam
02-05-2007, 11:14 AM
This is funny and sad at the same moment... Ljubo won a title, and now played a final, and lost in a close match (lost his serve once, and it was on *4-5 in third) And yes, Ljubo had a bad week but still managed to go to the final, and he still sucks?? Then Youzhny sucks big time coz he lost twice to that Ivan... And then we Croats don't know what we are talking about :rolleyes:
Really, like someone said, get a life!
As a matter of Fact Croatia has the lowest IQ Scores in Europe and I gotta say the Croats here are doing their best to shows us how Dumb they are.http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,282652,00.gif
Croatians were put together with the Serbians and don't tell me the Serbs are the one who reduced your average score.:rolleyes: So next time you make comments like that just make sure you can back up the nonsense you are saying with something solid :p

TennisGrandSlam
02-05-2007, 12:06 PM
http://www.tennis.com.cn/bbs/uploadFiles/2007-02/5_4624134_1.jpg

http://www.tennis.com.cn/bbs/uploadFiles/2007-02/5_4628709_1.jpg

http://www.tennis.com.cn/bbs/uploadFiles/2007-02/5_4628709_2.jpg

MarcelaTauro
02-05-2007, 12:13 PM
Marcoss :yeah:

Sunset of Age
02-05-2007, 12:47 PM
Baggy!!! And now - keep it up, will you dear boy?

Adler
02-05-2007, 12:55 PM
http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,282652,00.gif

* proud* :)

Corswandt
02-05-2007, 01:30 PM
Both of Baghdatis' titles were in tournaments where he got late entry WCs right?

Blue Heart24
02-05-2007, 01:36 PM
Both of Baghdatis' titles were in tournaments where he got late entry WCs right?

I'm gonna talk with Horvat about this one :( :fiery: :lol:

Fumus
02-05-2007, 02:22 PM
Llubo! :confused:

Is Baghy back for good?

And..that's a hell of a fuckin' trophy.

Corswandt
02-05-2007, 03:11 PM
Just checked - Baghdatis got a late entry WC for Beijing 2006 as well.

ljubicic_
02-05-2007, 03:52 PM
wtf Loremaster still didn't come here to bash Ivan:tape:

ljubicic_
02-05-2007, 03:55 PM
As a matter of Fact Croatia has the lowest IQ Scores in Europe and I gotta say the Croats here are doing their best to shows us how Dumb they are.http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,282652,00.gif
Croatians were put together with the Serbians and don't tell me the Serbs are the one who reduced your average score.:rolleyes: So next time you make comments like that just make sure you can back up the nonsense you are saying with something solid :p

That's bullshit Serbia has the lowest iq scores we are a little bit smarter than them(readed on newspapers)

btw. Where is GB? Are they so smart that their country is not in the iq list;)

Apemant
02-05-2007, 04:17 PM
btw. Where is GB? Are they so smart that their country is not in the iq list;)

Umm, *cough* I assume GB would be listed under 'British isles' - but maybe that's just me. :devil:


At any rate, that list means nothing. Personally, I couldn't care less what the average IQ of my country is, whichever it might be. I'm not defined by my nationality, nor my own IQ depends on the country's average. I'm way above any country's average anyway, hehe :angel:

Mistaflava
02-05-2007, 04:34 PM
:haha:

thiaela
02-05-2007, 05:25 PM
Congrats Marcos

RickDaStick
02-05-2007, 06:40 PM
wtf Loremaster still didn't come here to bash Ivan:tape:

He is still doing research so when he comes backs he can tell us some more how Blake is a big stage player.

Merton
02-05-2007, 06:46 PM
As a matter of Fact Croatia has the lowest IQ Scores in Europe and I gotta say the Croats here are doing their best to shows us how Dumb they are.http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,282652,00.gif
Croatians were put together with the Serbians and don't tell me the Serbs are the one who reduced your average score.:rolleyes: So next time you make comments like that just make sure you can back up the nonsense you are saying with something solid :p

At best, the IQ league only shows that there is a small difference on the average scores that individuals from different countries scored with respect to a metric that is supposed to represent IQ.

R.Federer
02-05-2007, 07:49 PM
At best, the IQ league only shows that there is a small difference on the average scores that individuals from different countries scored with respect to a metric that is supposed to represent IQ.

Lowest average scores are approximately 2 standard deviations lower than the highest average scores (back of envelope calculations). That is not a small difference.

But the German (or Dutch, or Pole, or Swiss, or Swede or Italian) who made this probably had some other bias.

Loremaster
02-06-2007, 05:44 PM
:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Ljubo is on his way out of top10 only 250 points lost and he is out :worship: :worship: :worship:
Maybe it will be during IW Miami I hope so


Congratulations Marcos :worship: :worship: good way to bounce back after AO , and slowly making Mr.Invisible your bitch is also very nice :devil:

ezekiel
02-06-2007, 06:49 PM
As a matter of Fact Croatia has the lowest IQ Scores in Europe and I gotta say the Croats here are doing their best to shows us how Dumb they are.http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,282652,00.gif
Croatians were put together with the Serbians and don't tell me the Serbs are the one who reduced your average score.:rolleyes: So next time you make comments like that just make sure you can back up the nonsense you are saying with something solid :p

Brits are the dumb ones, remember they elected war mongering dracula look a like what was it 2 or 3 times


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn8aAfK4kWY

Loremaster
02-06-2007, 06:51 PM
Ljubo lost, Ljubo lost , Ljubo lost in Zagreb , Ljubo lost on his favourite surface, Ljubo lost in home country :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :music: :music: :music: :rocker2: :rocker2:

Ljubo to Top10
:bigwave: :bigwave: :bigwave:

Loremaster
02-06-2007, 06:52 PM
Ljubo lost, Ljubo lost , Ljubo lost in Zagreb , Ljubo lost on his favourite surface, Ljubo lost in home country :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :music: :music: :music: :rocker2: :rocker2:

Ljubo to Top10
:bigwave: :bigwave: :bigwave:

Merton
02-06-2007, 07:01 PM
Lowest average scores are approximately 2 standard deviations lower than the highest average scores (back of envelope calculations). That is not a small difference.

But the German (or Dutch, or Pole, or Swiss, or Swede or Italian) who made this probably had some other bias.

Fair point, but the issue I had in mind is that the score is a noisy indicator, so trying to make statistical inferences coming out of variables measured with error must be approached cautiously. ;) You raise a further issue with bias that I completeley agree with.

nicole_s
02-06-2007, 07:07 PM
final is not bad result considering that he`s not playing his best tennis.I`m worried for ljubo,he seemed tired in zagreb.I hope he will be completley ready for davis cup