Hypothetical Question, can Murray beat Nadal in this AO? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Hypothetical Question, can Murray beat Nadal in this AO?

Pfloyd
01-18-2007, 04:26 PM
There have been quite a few MTF members that have said that Murray could beat Nadal, given the fact that Nadal is not playing his "best" tennis right now.

Berdych and Blake can definetley beat Nadal, but I doubt Murray can.

What do you guys think?

Exodus
01-18-2007, 04:29 PM
murray will beat nadal

scoobs
01-18-2007, 04:29 PM
Hypothetically, yes, I think so.

Do I think he will do if they should meet?

No, I doubt it very much. I think Murray will need more than one match to get used to Nadal's style, unless Rafa plays an atrocious match.

t0x
01-18-2007, 04:37 PM
Hrmm nope. Not unless Murray serves very well, and actually uses his main weapon often (BH DTL). Murray's play was sooo passive today, and Nadal will outlast him in the heat if he tries that...

Sally_Jingles
01-18-2007, 04:43 PM
Murray v Nadal would be a night match I assume.

Answering the question.. .not yet, not till he grows bigger and stronger.

CmonAussie
01-18-2007, 04:45 PM
* Murray can beat anyone [even Federer>> heck he`s done it already].
...
Problem for Murray is I don`t think he`s mentally strong enough to go all the way & win a Slam [atleast not now]
...
So he could beat one of the favourites [Nadal, Blake, Nalbandian..etc.] BUT if he reached the final he`d wilt against whoever his opponent was then..

Merton
01-18-2007, 05:00 PM
They both have tough 3rd round matches to face.

stebs
01-18-2007, 05:15 PM
No. He can beat many top players but for Murray Nadal is a very tough matchup.

Murray has no huge and consistent weapons, his BH dtl is great but he cannot hit it shot after shot, point after point. Nadal will outlast him, especially over five sets.

R.Federer
01-18-2007, 05:17 PM
If Murray plays like he did against Verdasco, it will be a routine straight set win for nadal (provided he plays well). If both play well, this is not a routine straight set for anyone IMO. I think people here grossly underestimate Murray. He is not with the best physical conditioning, or the most offensive shots, but his tactical play is so clever.

FluffyYellowBall
01-18-2007, 05:21 PM
No not yet-I dont think murray will get there and hes just not the type of player who'll raise his game for anyone. He'll still whine if hes leading 60 60 50 40-0 and makes a double fault against federer in a GS final! Might even cost him the match, hes murray...

Horatio Caine
01-18-2007, 05:25 PM
No. I really don't know how he'd go about it to be honest... :scratch:

nobama
01-18-2007, 05:29 PM
Do Murray and Nadal have a BYE in third round that we don't know about? :confused:

superhoops
01-18-2007, 05:47 PM
Do Murray and Nadal have a BYE in third round that we don't know about? :confused:

Exactly, post this If they both make it.

richie21
01-18-2007, 06:01 PM
Hypothertical Question, can Murray beat Nadal in this AO?

the question should be reversed....:o

*Viva Chile*
01-18-2007, 06:07 PM
Nadal will past Murray in velocity, so I expect Nadal wins.

Deathless Mortal
01-18-2007, 06:09 PM
He could beat him.

jenanun
01-18-2007, 06:13 PM
nope..... at least not in a GS tournament.....

Loremaster
01-18-2007, 06:24 PM
To compete with Nadal one has to have two things

- big weapon
- great stamina

Murray lacks both, what can hurt Nadal ?? Maybe Murray will be able to make Rafa run from corner to corner but it's favourite way of playing for Nadal. Nadal will just wear down Murray

MarcM
01-18-2007, 06:27 PM
BHDL is Murray's big weapon, his forehand is producing more winners now that it did last year. It's obvious he and Gilbert have worked on it.

Anyway i don't wanna talk about this match, Murray still has a tough one against Chela.

Allure
01-18-2007, 06:27 PM
It depends on who plays better on that day.

RonE
01-18-2007, 06:28 PM
Hypothetically, yes.

Realistically, no.

But speaking of reality- they both still have to get past their 3rd round matches before we can speculate about their chances against one another.

mickymouse
01-18-2007, 06:33 PM
No...Murray is a great retriever but Nadal is even better. Murray can run from side to side but Nadal can run even faster.

Allez
01-18-2007, 06:34 PM
I'm a fan of Murray's, but based on his wretched performance against Fernando I have to say Andy has approximately 0% chance of beating Nadal...sadly :sad: :sad: :sad:

jazar
01-18-2007, 06:35 PM
To compete with Nadal one has to have two things

- big weapon
- great stamina

Murray lacks both, what can hurt Nadal ?? Maybe Murray will be able to make Rafa run from corner to corner but it's favourite way of playing for Nadal. Nadal will just wear down Murray

:worship: :worship: right on.

nadal hasnt been playing his best, but when he comes up against a good player he will turn it on. in other matches murray can use his pass down the line effectively but not in this one as rafa is scared of the net. to beat nadal you usually need a big power game and that is something murray does not possess

scoobs
01-18-2007, 06:44 PM
I tend to agree - I don't think Murray's style of play is likely to overly trouble Nadal unless Murray gets up the court a fair bit and gets Nadal moving and then takes his time away as he finishes points in the court or at the net. Baseline rallying - there's only going to be one winner there.

bigbhoy
01-18-2007, 07:20 PM
Can he beat him...Yes

Will he beat him if they both make the 4th round...Depends on what Murray shows up for the match!

If he goes out the same passive way against Verdasco last night, then Nadal will blow him off court.

I think it was a bad game plan Murray went out with for that match, it looked to me as though he thought he would try to conserve energy by opting for more devensive game. Allow his opponent to make mistakes, then if the chance came for a winner, take it.

However that almost backfired, right from his second service game did it look to be one of those frustrating nights. That's exactly what it turned out to be. If Verdasco was a better player then he would have knocked Murray out.

Hence, if he does meet Nadal & opts for the same passive game. Then he himself will be rolled over. Nadal won't make mistakes that people like Verdasco will. However if he opts for an attacking game with the BH down the line more often. Uses the forehand to win more points. Perhaps throw in a few drop shots to bring Nadal into the net more often that he is used to. Then probably more importantly gets his 1st serves in more regularly.

If he does that, then he can create an upset & beat Nadal of that I have no doubt.

I guess the good thing is he doesn't have a very good player before that match, so won't have gotten caught up in it all, then gotten overwhelmed on the day & defeated.

If he beats Nadal, I think this may happen in the Quarters & he'll be defeated by Blake quite comfortably.

He beat Federer in Cincy, then in the next match against Ginepri, played poorly & almost got defeated. If you look at a few of his matches since he burst on to the scenes at Wimbledon 2005, he seems to have a history of that. Beat a big player, go out then get lost in the moment & be defeated simply in the next match.

I guess the only thing that may keep mhim focused is the fact that he said Nadal is the player he would like to play most if he had the opportunity. So that may keep him focused long enough to raise his game when needed.

Although if Nadal is on top form, then I think only Federer in reality could stop him. So it will come down to who's more up for it on the day. If it's passive Murray where he'll sit back & allow his opponent to dominate the play, he will get his ass handed to him that's for sure.

richie21
01-18-2007, 07:51 PM
it seems you all guys are forgetting that AO is not on clay.....:o
A LOT of players can beat Nadal on hard

R.Federer
01-18-2007, 07:56 PM
Do Murray and Nadal have a BYE in third round that we don't know about? :confused:

The thread title clearly said "Hypothertical" (sic), by which the starter means Hypothetical. Nothing wrong with that. It's an interesting question.

tennisdreams
01-18-2007, 08:09 PM
I am a big fan of Nadal, but to be honest he is vulnerable on hard courts, at least this early in the season. All I can say is that Murray needs to play waaaay better than he did against Verdasco. Rafa's mental toughness is far superior to Andy's at this point too.

DDrago2
01-18-2007, 08:17 PM
I'd say Nadal doesn't suit Murray at all. Nadal is consistent, fast, agressive - similarly as Baghdatis who easily won over Murray in Wimbledon 2006. I think it will be the same story here. Murray does have a great return that makes him dangerous for serve players, but he will not have a single huge weapon against Nadal.

vincayou
01-18-2007, 08:18 PM
Murray's game is not suited to beat Nadal, IMO. Theorically, it's the worst match up for him.

Deivid23
01-18-2007, 08:20 PM
They won´t face each other in this tourney, so wait for a better time

Green_Eyes
01-18-2007, 09:30 PM
Murray would never beat nadal, any time, any year, and any surface. But Murray beating Fed :D Thats something we will see most likely. Just shows what effects different matchups can have.

Nadal is about the worst matchup for Murray, and he would most likely pummel Murray into the ground.

Shrinking Violet
01-18-2007, 09:45 PM
I'm sitting on the fence. Andy could beat Rafa but he would need to serve well obviously. i don't think it is a particulary good matchup for Murray but he does have a habit of raising his game against better players. Obviously it doesn't always work - sometimes he can't implement the tactics but he seems to be getting better at changing it up when plan a isn't working - for example the net charging he did last night when he went a break down in the second. Last year he would probably have just kept at his first plan and lived or died by it.

With both players returning game there could be a few breaks of serve in it. It would be a good match if we got to see it - I just don't think it would be as one-sided as a lot of people seem to think. I'd give the edge to Rafa, but I think it would be good to see.

Of course saying this Murray will probably get beat by Chela and Rafa will lose to Wawrinka and make this a moot point. :lol:

bigbhoy
01-18-2007, 10:26 PM
I'd say Nadal doesn't suit Murray at all. Nadal is consistent, fast, agressive - similarly as Baghdatis who easily won over Murray in Wimbledon 2006. I think it will be the same story here. Murray does have a great return that makes him dangerous for serve players, but he will not have a single huge weapon against Nadal.

I wouldn't put much into that because at the time he was prone to a lot more inconsistency back then, never had a coach & all the rest. Not to mention the fact that before Wimbledon he played Baghdatis in an exhibition match in Nottingham & beat him easily in straight sets. As well as Mackin taking Baggy to 5 sets in the 1st round.

His serve is a huge weapon, just he really needs to make sure it's fully working when/if they meet up in the 4th round. His BH down the line is among the best in the game. His forehand last year wasn't strong at all, however it seems to be coming on a lot more lately. See the 1st point in the Verdasco match for evidence of that, as ell as the match against Davydenko, Safin etc. So in any match, he'd need to use it in every game to come out on top.

They won´t face each other in this tourney, so wait for a better time

What, you mean Nadal isn't gonna get through the 3rd round. :D Have a little more faith in Rafa!

Nadal is about the worst matchup for Murray, and he would most likely pummel Murray into the ground.

So are people like Gonzalez, Davydenko & he raised his game to take them out. Not to mention Nadal isn't firing on all cylinders right now, Kohlschreiber just took a set off him a few hours ago.

As The Age says:

Nadal Article (http://www.theage.com.au/news/sport/nadal-struggles-through/2007/01/19/1169095920384.html)

Nadal will need to present something considerably better if he is to have a chance against Roger Federer - let alone against Andy Murray whom he will potentially face in the final 16, or Lleyton Hewitt should either of them make it through to the quarters.

Of course saying this Murray will probably get beat by Chela and Rafa will lose to Wawrinka and make this a moot point.

While I would agree with you on this 9 times out of ten, there are 2 major things why I think it will not happen.

1. Chela defeated Murray at the AO last year. While he did easily defeat Chela at the Paris Master in Nov 2006, 7-5 6-0. So would probably be complacent & go out thinking all he had to do was show up & the match would be his. Then it would backfire & get him beat. I don't think he'll take Paris into accont because of what happened in last years AO. While Paris was revenge, beating Chela at the AO the following year,, most likely on the exact same court as that haunting loss. Will make sure he's fired up & approach the match right.

2. He's really wants to face Nadal in a competitive match, so take out Chela & he'll most likely get his wish in the 4th round.

Those alone should see him make sure he's not too complacent & properly prepared for the match.

If Murray plays his best game, he will beat Nadal, that I'm sure of. Maybe because it's earlier on in the season, so performances/confidence may be much lower than if he had a few titles under his belt. So it is the perfect time to face him. Although if Murray comes out plays a passive game, Nadal will dictate the play & beat him easily in straight sets. That I'm sure of!

Personally I don't think that will be allowed to happen by Murray himself or Gilbert. They'll know that Nadal rarely makes the amount of unforced errors that would be needed for a defensive Murray to win.

If the match happens & Nadal wins, as long as Murray gives his best. Then if he gets beaten by the better player on the day then fair enough. Just as long as he doesn't go out tamely & get walked over by putting up a half assed attempt. There aren't many players who can beat a fully flowing Nadal. So as long as he gives his best then I could easily accept such a loss.

Johnny Groove
01-18-2007, 10:27 PM
the people that say Murray will beat Nadal base their pick on wishful thinking

Regenbogen
01-18-2007, 10:52 PM
Bad matchup for Murray, so I'd say no. Of course, if Murray's playing really well and Nadal is off, it could happen.

mangoes
01-18-2007, 10:56 PM
I'll be very disappointed if Nadal doesn't serve Murray a bagel.

Green_Eyes
01-18-2007, 11:00 PM
I'll be very disappointed if Nadal doesn't serve Murray a bagel.

Don't live in a dream world, there is no chance of that happening :o

SerbianSmash
01-18-2007, 11:00 PM
I don't think he stands a chance.

rofe
01-18-2007, 11:03 PM
I'll be very disappointed if Nadal doesn't serve Murray a bagel.

The only way that Murray can get bagelled by Nadal is if he plays like he did against Verdasco. I don't think Murray will play like that against Nadal.

Though mangoes, were you having a little bit of fun with that statement? :)

Spud
01-18-2007, 11:08 PM
As much as I'd love Murray to beat Nadal if they both reach the 4th round here, I can't see it happening. Murray's game is built around keeping up with his opponents, staying solid and waiting for the opponent to make a mistake, and Rafa will make too few for Murray to seriously compete.

Give it another six months and hopefully Murray's first serve percentage will FINALLY increase to a top 20 level, on grass or hard courts and Murray will be in with a chance.

Until then there's only one outcome I can foresee...

mangoes
01-18-2007, 11:19 PM
The only way that Murray can get bagelled by Nadal is if he plays like he did against Verdasco. I don't think Murray will play like that against Nadal.

Though mangoes, were you having a little bit of fun with that statement? :)

:lol: :lol: :lol: Though these moments are rare, I am, by far, more of a fan of Nadal than the other chap.

Pfloyd
01-19-2007, 12:43 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: Though these moments are rare, I am, by far, more of a fan of Nadal than the other chap.

:lol:

oz_boz
01-19-2007, 08:11 AM
Nadal can be outblasted but not outlasted, and since Murray doesn't have the hugest of groundstrokes...Nadal in at most 4, IF it happens that is.